Latest / Life In Flow Podcast / How to navigate between doing and being?

Transcript

How to navigate between doing and being? · Life In Flow Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Life in Flow podcast.
• 0:03
  The three of us,
• 0:05
  Yulia,
• 0:05
  Polina,
• 0:06
  and Irina,
• 0:07
  are exploring what Life in Flow and Flow in Life is.
• 0:12
  Join us as we experiment,
• 0:15
  test our diverse hypotheses,
• 0:17
  and have fun in the process.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Will we find an answer?
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: This isn't just an intellectual discussion.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: We're co-creating a shared field beyond words.
• 0:30
  We're attuning to what emerges moment by moment so that the
• 0:35
  conversation itself
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: becomes a group flow experience.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: And we invite you to become an active participant in this experiment.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: There will be pauses and moments of silence.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: We leave them on purpose because this is where magic happens.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: Go beyond the intellectual information.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: Listen with your whole body.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: And notice how your somatic experience shifts in the process.
• 1:05
  Share with us what reveals itself in the space where mind,
• 1:11
  body,
• 1:12
  and energy flow together.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to another episode of Life & Flow podcast.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Yulia, and I will be facilitating today's episode.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: And here are also my co-creators, Irina and Polina.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Hello.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: And our topic today is how do we navigate between doing and being?
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: And before we continue, I want to start...
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: with a short story of how this episode came to me.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think it happened around a month ago.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: Irina got sick and she was sick for two weeks.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so we couldn't record one of the episodes at our usual time.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: And as we were kind of keeping in touch when she was sick,
• 2:17
  She was sharing that she was spending a lot of time in bed,
• 2:22
  doing nothing.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so the first week went by.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then the second week goes by.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like, yes, I'm still in bed.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: Not much I can do.
• 2:34
  And I started noticing that there was a mix of different
• 2:40
  emotions and feelings going through me.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's already the second week.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my God, how can you stay in bed for two weeks in a row?
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I would catch myself evidently being,
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't say triggered because it didn't make me upset,
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: but it made me worried.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I was...
• 3:10
  I started to think about my patterns,
• 3:14
  about why I would react in this way.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so I became aware to the fact that it's really,
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: really,
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: really challenging for me to stay still,
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: to stay in bed,
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: to be sick,
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: to be not doing stuff.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: also,
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: I actually have known it for a long time and I do get myself to be still,
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: but it's always a challenge.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: And since I became aware of it in this way,
• 3:58
  I thought it would be really nice to discuss it with you
• 4:05
  because things reveal
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: themselves and open up
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: in our conversations.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm looking forward to the end.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: We're going to start with a little game.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: Well, something like a practice that we usually start with.
• 4:25
  I'm going to suggest a word and we're just going to do a couple
• 4:35
  rounds of what that word
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: evokes in each of us.
• 4:44
  And it can be,
• 4:45
  this word is,
• 4:47
  for me,
• 4:48
  feels like,
• 4:49
  or is like,
• 4:50
  or is,
• 4:52
  whatever comes up for you.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: And the word is laziness.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I can start.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: Laziness for me is laying in bed.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: Laziness for me feels fluffy.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: Laziness for me,
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: as you said,
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: that word was more like of this image and reverberation of energy.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 5:35
  like when you drop a big stone in the water and you could see
• 5:39
  it going down,
• 5:41
  but there's also bubbles that kind of percolate around it as
• 5:44
  it's going down.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's how this word landed in my system.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I noticed...
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: So there's like love and pull for laziness.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: I love laziness.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: And there's judgment around laziness.
• 6:02
  So there was like an actual reverberation of energies as the
• 6:06
  word was landing in my system.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: Laziness for me is forbidden fruit, like forbidden mango fruit.
• 6:21
  yeah laziness for me feels like anxiety and guilt it's like the
• 6:31
  stone in my chest
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: laziness for me is like a dirty little secret but it's also
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: like this naughty little secret.
• 6:54
  Laziness for me is something frivolous and maybe something like
• 7:06
  rebellion.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: Laziness for me is
• 7:22
  something that whispers a secret that i'm not able to
• 7:32
  understand laziness for me is
• 7:40
  a natural i just don't want to do what you want me to do or
• 7:46
  what i have to do i
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: just don't freaking want to
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: Nice.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for playing.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, so by choosing the word laziness, I did this on purpose.
• 8:10
  I kind of wanted to project one of the ideas,
• 8:18
  one of the fears of my fears
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: behind being when I'm not doing anything.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, am I being lazy?
• 8:31
  But I guess the fears behind being,
• 8:37
  I may,
• 8:39
  and that's where I wanted to go now with you.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: What are your biggest fears?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: What are our fears?
• 8:49
  And maybe some fears will discover that we don't yet realize
• 8:55
  that they're there.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: Fears behind just being.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: My biggest fear is related to our previous episode.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: A fear of not being valuable and hence not being loved.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: And as I discovered at least in our last step,
• 9:28
  being exactly means to get out of the shell of value and allow
• 9:39
  myself of not being
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: valuable,
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: just be without value.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: So it's still quite a challenge.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Being, I mean, it's like the most natural state.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the most challenging state if yes, we are looking at value.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Also, what are we supposed to be?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: What are we supposed to be doing?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: What are we missing out on?
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: What, where am I going to end up?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm just being,
• 10:32
  does that mean that I will be left behind by society and other
• 10:38
  versions of me?
• 10:46
  so kind of doing as a condition for love what I heard from you
• 10:58
  and doing also as a
• 10:59
  way to belong to be part of something bigger like the society
• 11:10
  and then if we are
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: not
• 11:15
  doing if we just are then there is no love and there is no
• 11:25
  place i guess for us is
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: that polin would you say about the place
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, the place is unclear.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: What place do I occupy?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm being just being?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: What does that mean?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually quite a pervasive question in my field.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: What is the question?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: What does it mean?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: What does it mean to be?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: What does it mean to be?
• 12:09
  and just be however I want to be at every moment in time
• 12:14
  without worrying about
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: what being is like more of a doing,
• 12:22
  the being that's more of a doing that is the way other people
• 12:27
  and our society and
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: all those other forces put on that concept.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: That might be a little convoluted, I apologize.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: Let me check if I understood.
• 12:43
  What I heard is it's as if the being itself is a little bit
• 12:49
  blurry because outside
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: of doing,
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: it's difficult to give a definition.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 12:58
  Yes,
• 12:58
  it's almost like something I haven't even fully been able to
• 13:01
  explore.
• 13:02
  And I've had the privilege to explore it more than I think lots
• 13:05
  of people.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: And still, it's something that's a little bit blurry.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because like, what would truly being be like?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: What is it like if you're,
• 13:16
  you would really have to check out of all of the things that
• 13:21
  are set up as they're
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: set up in our everyday life,
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like almost go on a walkabout.
• 13:32
  It's as if all our social structures and maybe even our words
• 13:41
  and vocabulary are
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: geared towards doing and the whole concept of being is kind of hazy.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: What is it that's being?
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to share one of the fears behind,
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: I guess,
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: not doing that I realized just a couple of days ago.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I was listening to an episode of my favorite ever podcast,
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: which both of you know,
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: the Emerald.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I've been always kind of an activist in my life.
• 14:33
  well,
• 14:33
  in the helping profession,
• 14:34
  but also I worked at Greenpeace and I worked for another NGO.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: And now I'm in this field of where it's like the impact, regenerative.
• 14:44
  And so there's always this desire,
• 14:48
  I guess,
• 14:49
  that is there and drives me to do things to save.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: To save another person, to save the world, to save.
• 15:07
  And I've known about this,
• 15:10
  of course,
• 15:12
  and there was an interesting twist from that podcast.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: And he traced this desire,
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: especially in the activist movement or in the helping movement,
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: to actually the Christianity and its tenets of salvation.
• 15:31
  And that the religion itself is not that present,
• 15:35
  but actually the spirit of it.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: And it's all about salvation.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: You're born with a sin,
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: just you,
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: you were just born and you already have something to carry.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 15:47
  And you,
• 15:48
  all your life,
• 15:49
  you just,
• 15:50
  you know,
• 15:51
  you strive for,
• 15:52
  for salvation.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess that is my big insight that happened to coincide episode.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: Do you notice that there's also a doing aspect even in the being?
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's how far removed we are from a clear, clean being.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because we have to do being right now.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know how to not do being.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: I literally have to figure out how to do the thing of being.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's a very good point.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: So...
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: Then let's maybe try to somehow define being,
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: or maybe not define being,
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: but somehow understand or sense into being.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe not through words, maybe through some experiences.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: What is being actually?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: For me,
• 17:17
  it's really just letting go and fully occupying whatever the
• 17:27
  experience or the
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: moment or the sensory perception
• 17:40
  or the time space like it's more like a letting go and just
• 17:47
  occupying a state more
• 17:50
  fully it's kind of you were on the floor with your on your toes
• 18:01
  and then you went
• 18:03
  down and could feel all of the feet something like that
• 18:08
  occupying the state more
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: fully
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: You could make that analogy.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: So instead of moving, you're stopping.
• 18:26
  And you're also really allowing yourself to access that
• 18:32
  stillness even more.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: What do you mean you are stopping?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think of doing as motion of some sort,
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: whether it's mental motion or physical motion or emotional motion,
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're doing the thing and then when you're being,
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: there's a slowing down of motion in order to occupy the...
• 19:15
  whatever it is like the the state or it's funny because when
• 19:20
  you experience flow
• 19:21
  and being in exercise you are externally moving but you're
• 19:29
  still slowing down in
• 19:30
  terms of how you're occupying the flow or the experience itself
• 19:34
  so i don't know
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: it's it's uh
• 19:42
  I had the same kind of question I was going to ask you,
• 19:45
  and what about dancing?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, any kind of movement brings you to flow.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think not necessarily dancing,
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: but yeah,
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think Paulina brought the point that when you are in the flow,
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: You are being, but you are in action.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's... Okay, you are being and you are being in action.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: That is interesting, yeah.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: I have two reflections and I don't have the definition yet.
• 20:43
  the first thing that came to my mind is that in in spanish
• 20:50
  there are two verbs to
• 20:52
  describe being there's the verb star that refers more like to i
• 21:01
  am um no i wouldn't
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: say it i am it's like
• 21:09
  more i am here like to be in a certain position to to stay
• 21:16
  still if this would be
• 21:21
  more uh close to to the concept that we want to bring as
• 21:28
  opposed to be in action
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: but then there is the verb ser that refers more to like to
• 21:46
  not expressing but even to the essence of things so like to
• 21:51
  have qualities of
• 21:53
  something and you can be and in a certain quality while you're
• 22:06
  in action so it's
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: like this a position that we want to bring the being versus doing
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's not necessarily always should be the contraposition.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, what's the sentence?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Can you give a sentence example with sir?
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: You're like talking about laziness.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm lazy.
• 22:37
  but you look soy perisosa or estoy perisosa you're like they
• 22:41
  would be translated
• 22:42
  both as i'm lazy but soy perisosa refers to my inner quality is
• 22:49
  lazy i am lazy in
• 22:53
  principle this is my quality this is my essence whereas estoy
• 22:59
  perisosa means that
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: i'm lazy right now i feel lazy
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: What are the Russian words that are associated with this topic?
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Since Ira brought in language.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: Byt?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Byt?
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Being is byt?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess it's just one word, so I don't... I cannot recall...
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: A distinction.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, I'm doing as I do, but I am being as I... There is no word for that.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's just yeah.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: I am is yeah.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's interesting how any verb in Russian then is dropped.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:12
  So I guess you could...
• 24:13
  This is about also somehow slowing down when there is no verb.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: It helps also more to go directly to the essence.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 24:31
  yeah okay but one thing that i've noticed as you were sharing
• 24:39
  is that there are
• 24:41
  kind of two planes you can say visible and invisible that
• 24:47
  somehow are at play with
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: each other in being and in doing
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: For example,
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: I guess the visible plane,
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: whether we move or whether we don't move,
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: doesn't usually have a direct correlation with the invisible.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: So we can be dancing and in dancing we can be doing or we can be being.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: We can do doing and we can do being.
• 25:26
  is it well like you will be doing anyway if you're dancing but
• 25:32
  i think you like the
• 25:34
  i i like these words that polina used fully occupying uh i
• 25:45
  changed it a little bit
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: when i noted down and i i wrote fully occupying the experience so
• 25:56
  The more fully,
• 26:00
  when I fully occupy the experience of dancing,
• 26:03
  I am in this experience.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I am dancing, not as an action, but as really a state.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: But the action is still there, I'm still doing.
• 26:21
  and I may be aware of course if I fully occupy the experience
• 26:27
  for example I'm not
• 26:30
  doing it automatically like because I'm professional I call my
• 26:35
  movements just my
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: body does them on its own so I need to pay attention
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: to the movements, to the steps, etc.
• 26:46
  So I will be in the doing,
• 26:49
  but I still may be at the same time fully in the being too.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I like that, fully occupying the experience.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's true,
• 27:02
  because when you perform a dance that has specific steps and
• 27:07
  you're on stage,
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: right,
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: you could still do all the steps as they're supposed to be done,
• 27:14
  but also at the same time fully occupy the experience of being
• 27:21
  in the dance and
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: doing these moves.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: Even though there's a doing,
• 27:25
  there's still actually a being if you let yourself fully be in
• 27:30
  the experience of
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: it.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: So girls,
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: let me ask you this,
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: because now what Pauline is describing,
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: you were describing kind of a flow state,
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: but also a trance state,
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: an altered state.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: So is it that being is always a trance state?
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: Can we say that or no?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: That was another reflection I had.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, the question that rose for me was,
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: Does being always mean being aware?
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: Does it always involve awareness?
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure about that.
• 28:21
  I think I can allow myself just be and be without any
• 28:27
  self-awareness whatsoever.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: And lose yourself in the experience.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe.
• 28:41
  I don't know if I can lose myself in the experience if I'm not
• 28:44
  aware that I'm
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: having this experience.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: I just am.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: What was the question?
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: How did awareness come up?
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: What was the question, Yul?
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: It is being always a trance state.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: Ah.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: But on the other hand,
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: if I am,
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: for example,
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: without any self-awareness of,
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: what is happening to me,
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just...
• 29:25
  Okay.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: It could be a certain trance state.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well, just kind of like what you described when you were cooking after...
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: coming from the theater.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: Was it a being or no?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: It was.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: And just to clarify,
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: this was an experience that Ira shared,
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: I think,
• 29:51
  in the first or second episode when she didn't have any memory
• 29:56
  of cooking after a
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: visit to the theater,
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: which was very inspiring and,
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: I guess,
• 30:06
  It's not that I didn't have any memory,
• 30:09
  I didn't have an awareness of my steps.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, awareness of your steps.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: You didn't have awareness.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's true.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: That experience was a trance state, definitely.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm thinking of more down-to-earth situations.
• 30:37
  like when people are talking about the experience of the state
• 30:45
  of being they often
• 30:46
  refer to cats you know and set them as examples that a cat is
• 30:52
  just is always just
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: is so i'm my question is when the cat is just is
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: Is it aware of itself?
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: So how do you make this bridge?
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a cat.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just to allow myself to be.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: Do I have an awareness of my experience?
• 31:23
  So are you now making a bridge that awareness has to be there
• 31:27
  if you are in a state of being?
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: That is my doubt.
• 31:37
  So somehow,
• 31:38
  I don't know why I decided to link the awareness to the trance
• 31:51
  state.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe cat is always in a trance state.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: Compared to humans, I think it is.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's an interesting question, actually.
• 32:10
  I was literally a bit like trying to occupy a cat and see what
• 32:15
  does it feel like.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Were you aware as a cat?
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: I had an awareness as a cat.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think cats actually have awareness.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I wanted to,
• 32:39
  what was coming up for me as I was shape-shifting a little bit
• 32:43
  was that sometimes
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: the lack of awareness is like this,
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: another way of being.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like when you could just let go of awareness and just freaking be,
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: like not care about who's around,
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: who's going to think what.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: Just do whatever the hell you want.
• 33:07
  Like you're just following your own internal,
• 33:12
  like not guidance,
• 33:14
  but whatever it is.
• 33:16
  presenting itself and you feel like following is what you do
• 33:21
  without any care of
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: what anyone might think about it,
• 33:27
  what you might even think about it if you were to engage your
• 33:30
  consciousness,
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: you know?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I just feel like it and therefore I am or I do or don't do.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like kind of a turning off of something.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: That was exactly my point.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: Ah,
• 33:50
  you're saying that a cat has turned off that something and just
• 33:55
  is following
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: whatever comes up in the moment and it just does it.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know about the cat.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: I was thinking about people.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: So one of the comments that's coming up for me,
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: Paulina,
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: as you brought up a cat,
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: Irene Yu,
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: is that people also often say that a cat knows who she is.
• 34:28
  A dog knows who she is,
• 34:31
  and that's why it's easier for them kind of just to be.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: So in a lot of literature,
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: on let's say animals or in that space.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: This is said rather often, that an eagle knows what it is.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: And we know that for humans, it's not that easy to know who they are.
• 35:00
  And many humans have no idea who they are till they start
• 35:07
  another round of life.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: So then my question is, maybe it's hard for us
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: to be what to do being because we have no clue who we are.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: When you share that, it is a good point.
• 35:31
  And actually I've been thinking about the article you shared on
• 35:34
  link biology this
• 35:35
  entire time that we've been talking and now even more because
• 35:39
  the link biology says
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: we are actually shaped by from the outside in that inside out.
• 35:45
  And so,
• 35:46
  and we come in that way,
• 35:49
  that article about the mammalian versus the reptile strategy.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: So a mammal is automatically shaped by...
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: the womb and then totally dependent on the caretakers once it's born.
• 36:05
  And then next layer of external outside in,
• 36:10
  next layer of outside in,
• 36:12
  next layer of outside in.
• 36:13
  So how in that structure,
• 36:15
  even biologically,
• 36:16
  can you possibly have a full sense of who you are?
• 36:18
  It's a constant interplay between outside and inside and
• 36:23
  outside and inside.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: And depending on the outside is how your inside will develop or have,
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: that experiential sense of self, right?
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: I actually don't think that, sorry, I'm just gonna finish that thought.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that a dog is fully,
• 36:43
  their own being because the dog is also so much dependent on
• 36:49
  who the owners are how
• 36:50
  the owners feel what the owners want from the dog and the dog
• 36:54
  adjusts all the time
• 36:55
  so i don't maybe when the dog is chilling under the couch it
• 36:59
  has a moment to just
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: be
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because the rest of the time,
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: it's very much like this interplay between owner and animal,
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: owner and animal.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: And both are constantly influencing one another.
• 37:13
  And I think that changes what we're talking about as like being
• 37:17
  versus doing.
• 37:20
  Yeah,
• 37:20
  but who said that being is impossible in the interaction with
• 37:25
  the environment?
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's not.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: The experience of being is not.
• 37:34
  But if we're talking about just being without any externals or
• 37:43
  any aspects of
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: doing,
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: that's a bit of a different plane,
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: as Yulia was saying.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: There's different planes when we're talking about being.
• 37:50
  Yeah,
• 37:52
  but I think in our conversation has already transpired that it
• 37:57
  doesn't make sense to
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: to oppose being to doing.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: So like we can be in the being while in the doing.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_02: I think with the animals, that would be the case most of the time.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yes,
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: but if we're talking about like the core of being,
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: with no doing and that experience of being like,
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: who am I outside of all doing?
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a separate thing than being in the doing.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: but the problem,
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think,
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: the problem with the question,
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: who am I,
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: knowing who am I,
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think the difference with the humans,
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: so humans between the humans and animals is why we have the problem of
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: understanding or knowing who we are is because for us,
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: knowing who we are
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: is closely related to reflection and it's not knowing,
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: like the dog knows,
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: if we assume that the dog knows who it is or the cat or whatever,
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: it's not related to the cognitive knowing,
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: it's just like integrated experience of being,
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: exactly.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I would argue that
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: Oftentimes,
• 39:30
  we don't know who we are exactly because we look for the
• 39:36
  answers in our cognitive
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: brain and our intellect,
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: which is not where the being lives.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_02: That is absolutely true.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: And if you watch those videos of dogs,
• 39:55
  there's this guy that has videos on YouTube where he goes into
• 39:58
  a shelter and
• 40:00
  interacts with a dog that's really down and has been labeled as
• 40:05
  a problem dog
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: because of all the traumatic stuff it's gone through.
• 40:08
  But then he comes in and he tells them,
• 40:12
  you're a good boy,
• 40:14
  which is a cognitive thing.
• 40:17
  aspect of being because we have put labels on you're a good boy
• 40:21
  you're a bad boy if
• 40:23
  you're a bad boy this is how I'm going to treat you and this is
• 40:25
  who I think you are
• 40:25
  right that reflective quality but you're a good boy and the dog
• 40:30
  responds so
• 40:32
  powerfully to this like you're a good boy and that's a bee
• 40:38
  that's a that's an
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: animal so I don't know if we can separate fully
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: the wired and cognitive aspects of us as being from like that.
• 40:54
  I don't even know what we're talking about when we're talking
• 40:56
  about being without
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: all of those reflection points.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like what, does anyone know whether, maybe a monk that has taken away all
• 41:05
  physical realities and it's just sitting on top of a mountain
• 41:09
  and someone else is
• 41:11
  doing all the doing and all he's doing is being but even still
• 41:16
  in the being he's
• 41:17
  still doing he's still doing the being okay that's uh i'm um
• 41:23
  confused between
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: beings and doings um i just um i just want to say kind of a my
• 41:33
  definition as of lately what being is about not what being is
• 41:40
  but what it's close
• 41:42
  to and it's finding and it comes from all this quite a few
• 41:49
  books by Bill Plotkin
• 41:51
  that I've been reading and specifically his book Soulcraft
• 41:56
  where he talks about
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: soul which
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: actually lives underworld and which is if spirit is universal,
• 42:07
  then soul is your unique expression of who you are in this
• 42:11
  world and what unique
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: powers and what unique place you could
• 42:18
  Occupy and place not only physical place but different kinds of
• 42:22
  places if you were
• 42:24
  to Get to know I guess your your soul and so this for me is I
• 42:32
  guess close to
• 42:33
  understanding my Being the way an eagle would understand and
• 42:41
  then between animals
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_02: there are actually a lot of um
• 42:45
  different animals so some of them are very social right and so
• 42:50
  i would even imagine
• 42:52
  that with the social animals that they also have well not a
• 43:00
  problem but this
• 43:01
  distinction of the social role versus who they really are but
• 43:07
  that's just my
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_02: speculation yeah
• 43:15
  Okay,
• 43:16
  so I suggest we leave it at that because we are going deep into
• 43:20
  the woods.
• 43:21
  And the next question that I invite you to think about is what
• 43:32
  are the forces that
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: are behind doing and being?
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_02: And this comes from
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_02: What we discussed a lot here is interconnectedness, right?
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: That we're never just alone in our doing or being.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: And there are always a lot of forces acting on us.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: So what are the biggest ones for you?
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to start us off?
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 44:33
  The force that I don't yet know how to deal with that pulls me
• 44:39
  into doing is
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: actually the digital world.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's my phone.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's my computer.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: And
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's especially my phone somehow.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's like social apps like WhatsApp or Telegram, things like that.
• 45:04
  And I don't even yet have a clear explanation for myself why
• 45:10
  it's so hard for me to
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: really just like put a wall behind us.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: But somehow...
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_02: the digital world pulls me into the vortex, kind of.
• 45:29
  I'm very sensitive to an increase in speed,
• 45:35
  to the difference in energy,
• 45:36
  and it's almost
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: as if I start to move fast and I cannot stop.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_02: I have to leave it aside and I have just to go into the forest for three,
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_02: four hours without any gadgets and just be there.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then by the end of the third hour,
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_02: I can slow down and get more into the being state or close to being.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_02: Because the speed of the energy is different.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: It makes sense.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: But in your example,
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: it sounds like,
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: am I getting it right,
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: that you're relating doing to responsiveness?
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: What is the doing in the devices?
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of doing.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my God.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: I can find it's never in.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: What is the, what is the, how do you define the doing?
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: What is the doing?
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: How does it show up?
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: Working.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: Working?
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: What do you mean working?
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I have a list of things.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: And if I happen to be caught up with the list,
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_02: which doesn't happen often,
• 47:10
  then immediately there are so many things that come to mind
• 47:14
  that I should have
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_02: done,
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_02: but I didn't do.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's literally, you know, doing stuff, you know, that's...
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, for work, whatever.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_02: Editing,
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: well,
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_02: there are some things that I know have to be done,
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_02: but there are also a lot on the kind of
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_02: wish list, and that wish list is long.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, do I really need to get this done, things done?
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_02: But I need to occupy,
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_02: I guess,
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_02: if I'm not occupying my state,
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: then something else is very invasively occupying my state instead of me.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_02: Why do I just go to my garden?
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_02: Why do I just go to the kitchen?
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's just the list is endless.
• 48:36
  One thing that came to my mind when you mentioned digital world
• 48:42
  in respect to doing
• 48:44
  was that for me going into action into this world is often
• 48:56
  related to some sort of
• 49:00
  escapism so like I want to run away from something into doing
• 49:09
  something else
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_02: And it came to my mind that it has something to do with this,
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_02: going back to this distinction between the two Spanish verbs,
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_02: ser and estar.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like,
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_02: there are certain inherent qualities of my being,
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_02: but I don't know how to be with those qualities.
• 49:44
  and how to be in the interplay of my qualities with the
• 49:51
  qualities of the context
• 49:53
  the situation whatever the situation i'm in so i need to get
• 49:59
  into the action in
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_02: order not to be in
• 50:05
  in order not to occupy myself because I can't bear this being
• 50:13
  with these qualities or whatever.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if I explain myself.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_02: Are you saying,
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_02: do you mean by the qualities,
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: do you mean more like some individual propensities that we have?
• 50:35
  or having a lot of stuff that brings discomfort because it
• 50:49
  hasn't been processed?
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't like the word propensity doesn't resonate with what I...
• 51:04
  had in mind um regarding the stuff not being processed it's
• 51:12
  definitely there is
• 51:13
  this part because you know like if i can't process myself
• 51:19
  obviously it won't be
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_02: processed but it's more by the qualities i mean
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_02: But what you were describing when you were talking about the soul,
• 51:34
  it's like something that defines who I am and what place I
• 51:41
  occupy in the world.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like the unique expression.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, exactly.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_02: And it has to do, again, with my perception
• 52:00
  value of my value and like how I think my value is perceived in
• 52:06
  the world etc so
• 52:12
  there are like two things that are pulling me into action so I
• 52:20
  was thinking about
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_02: social conditioning and
• 52:25
  So very often we enter into the action because we want to
• 52:30
  achieve something.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_02: We think that we want to achieve something.
• 52:36
  So we might think it because we were conditioned to think that
• 52:40
  this is what we want.
• 52:44
  There are also these like what they call intrinsic motivation
• 52:48
  because I might think that
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_02: I feel that this movement,
• 52:57
  this action is getting born out of me because this will be the
• 53:01
  unique expression of
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_02: who I am.
• 53:06
  And yet I think that it still somehow has the very close link
• 53:15
  to my relationship
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_02: with the external world.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because I have been thinking more than once about this,
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_02: and I just lately have this reflection again.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_02: If, for example, I will start with that my whole life,
• 53:40
  revolving around creativity like and creating things in
• 53:45
  different modes and
• 53:47
  different modalities and yet if i found myself on an inhabited
• 54:01
  island and like
• 54:03
  there was no one to share my creation with i'm not sure that i
• 54:08
  would be creating
• 54:14
  My latest reflection was what I would be doing if I knew that
• 54:25
  these are the last
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_02: moments of the world.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_02: This is the end of the world.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_02: Everything goes out.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_02: What would I be doing?
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_02: Would I sit...
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_02: and write knowing that no one ever will be there to read my writing?
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think so.
• 54:51
  So even for the action that I think is born out of my unique
• 54:58
  expression is still
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_02: somehow influenced by social conditioning.
• 55:06
  Wait,
• 55:06
  I think that for me,
• 55:07
  as you were just you just took us on a journey.
• 55:10
  And what I ended up with in my system as I followed you on this
• 55:14
  journey was that
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_00: context changes everything.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_00: Am I on an island and it's the end of the world?
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: So then what will I do with the remaining time?
• 55:31
  Or am I on an island and it's because I'm so freaking lucky
• 55:36
  that I get to be on an
• 55:37
  island and it's just because I don't have to do anything
• 55:39
  because everything's taken
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: care of?
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: So what will I do then?
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because humanity continues.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: So that context might change what you would do with your time.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_00: So context is still...
• 55:53
  part of the equation when we're talking about being so we're
• 55:58
  saying there are
• 56:00
  different types of being again and there are other players
• 56:06
  involved outside of
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_02: ourselves which is of course the case because we're interconnected yep
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: so it's that link biology article,
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_00: it's all on a mesh network and we're just nodes on the network.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_02: Okay,
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_02: so if then there is always some context to our being,
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_02: then doing,
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_02: and doing,
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_02: yes,
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_02: therefore doing,
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_02: yeah.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely to doing.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_02: Then...
• 56:51
  Now I'm just curious in the moment what could collective being
• 56:59
  feel like or look like?
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it could be really fun.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it is really fun when we go into trance together, group flow.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_00: Again, what's the context?
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_00: Are we being together without having to do any doing?
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_02: It gets complicated.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just wondering...
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_02: if the context is always there,
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_02: maybe because when there are more people and the field is stronger,
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_02: then it's easier to occupy a state,
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_02: in my opinion.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, if it's well-facilitated.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_02: But normally, when people say, let's just be together,
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_02: They use this verb exactly as the opposition to doing.
• 58:15
  So let's just stay still and do nothing and occupy our beings
• 58:25
  and the field and be
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_00: aware of each other.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it also depends on context.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes two people say, let's just be together.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_00: They mean, let's just be together.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_03: That's true.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's true.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's also the first thing that came to mind, as you said.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_02: What came to me refers to this,
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_02: that often we put these two concepts in a position,
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_02: being versus doing,
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_02: when the doing has an objective.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_02: So when we're focused on what we want to achieve, we go into doing.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_00: If there's an objective, right.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_00: But let's just go for a walk with no objective.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_00: We're walking and we're being.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_00: We're being with the walking.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_00: We're being with one another.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_00: We're being with the nature.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_00: But there's still always this interrelation,
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_00: like some kind of interaction between being and doing.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_00: And if you think about it, when we're sleeping,
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_00: Technically, we're not doing anything.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_00: And yet we are doing because our body is set up for always doing.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's always doing something.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then you're sleeping.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, your consciousness is sleeping.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_00: But in my case, for example, I always have dreams.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I still feel like I'm doing dreams,
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_00: even in the state of almost no doing technically,
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: right,
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: on the surface.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: And yet still, biologically, this is a machine that's always doing.
• 1:00:11
  So we're occupying a machine that's always doing,
• 1:00:14
  and yet we're talking about...
• 1:00:17
  being being in a machine and in the environment where there's
• 1:00:22
  always doing i mean a
• 1:00:24
  bird that's flying is also doing flying right because it was if
• 1:00:28
  it was just being
• 1:00:29
  would it just fall to the ground if it just decided i'm just
• 1:00:31
  gonna be right now in
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_00: this flight what would happen
• 1:00:38
  Okay,
• 1:00:39
  just one thing that I wanted to say is that our bodies are not
• 1:00:42
  machines.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_02: They are not.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_02: They're like intricate... Alive organisms.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_02: Alive...
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well,
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_02: it's,
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_02: things are not coming...
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_02: The right words are not coming to mind right now,
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_02: but they're so not machines.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_02: There is nothing about them.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry,
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_00: when I read the article about link biology,
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_00: and I really tuned in to what this person was describing,
• 1:01:15
  I actually think we're some of the most sophisticated
• 1:01:18
  biologically based machines
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: there could be.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_00: If you think about the nervous system,
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_00: the muscle system,
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_00: the lymph system,
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_00: the fascia system,
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_00: there's so many systems all
• 1:01:33
  working together in this like how how does this work it is it
• 1:01:38
  is in a way like this
• 1:01:40
  most sophisticated tech that is out there because we are like
• 1:01:43
  we're like we we
• 1:01:44
  function like tech and we're in a mesh network with all the
• 1:01:49
  other humans and
• 1:01:50
  potentially even all the other animals and nature what i don't
• 1:01:55
  know when i read
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_00: that article it really shifted something in my consciousness
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_02: No,
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_02: but the thing is,
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_02: and of course it's not the topic of our conversation,
• 1:02:04
  but there is a big difference between a living organism and a
• 1:02:10
  machine in that,
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_02: of course,
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_02: living being is constantly...
• 1:02:16
  evolving and moving in that net and occupying different
• 1:02:20
  positions and it's morphing,
• 1:02:26
  right?
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_00: So as AI these days,
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_00: so we now have an example of a machine or tech that is living,
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_00: evolving and moving and learning and
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_00: To some extent, to some extent.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't mean machine like a static technical object.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean like tech.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_00: It feels like a bit of tech, really sophisticated tech.
• 1:03:03
  The reason why I'm making this point is because calling
• 1:03:07
  ourselves machines or
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_02: comparing nature to machine has been behind our relationship.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh, this machine, we understand how this machine works.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_02: Let's us tweak some things, this and that.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_02: Let us make this machine be productive.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of like a more...
• 1:03:27
  worldview thing well that's that's a limited way of looking at
• 1:03:36
  that lens you could
• 1:03:37
  look at that lens and actually make it more involved you could
• 1:03:41
  say okay if you
• 1:03:42
  could look at it through the lens of machine but make it more
• 1:03:47
  of a complex uh
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_00: conversation but actually how could we not
• 1:03:52
  have the word machine in this conversation when we're very much
• 1:03:57
  being treated as
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_00: machines in our current industrialized society.
• 1:04:04
  Like when we are told to sit in school from eight to five and
• 1:04:09
  not move and sit at
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_00: the desk and learn,
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_00: we are being treated like as if we are a machine.
• 1:04:17
  And that this machine is the same throughout so that everyone
• 1:04:21
  can just sit or go to
• 1:04:23
  work and sit at work for eight hours and constantly think and
• 1:04:27
  think and do and do
• 1:04:28
  and do and that that is how a human being is meant to be
• 1:04:34
  utilized in society.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that is a very good and quite sad point.
• 1:04:46
  I guess we're here having this conversation and having a
• 1:04:48
  difficult time defining what being is.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:04:55
  through our,
• 1:04:56
  I'm gonna be 50 soon,
• 1:04:59
  and most of my life I had no idea what being is.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_02: Well,
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_02: maybe in the childhood when we occupy the states naturally,
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_02: and then they just almost train being out of you,
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_02: then maybe?
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:05:16
  If we are introduced and indoctrinated into this life as if we
• 1:05:23
  are a machine,
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_00: and that everyone's machine is the same,
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_00: unless it gets sick or whatever,
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_00: or something's missing,
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 1:05:31
  Like all the machines go to school and then all the machines go
• 1:05:34
  to work and they
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_00: produce this and this and this,
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_00: whatever,
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_00: that's not how we want to occupy this experience,
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_00: which is why I think we're having this conversation.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_00: How do you occupy this experience in a different way?
• 1:05:50
  And then you would have to literally check out of all the
• 1:05:53
  prescriptions for all the
• 1:05:54
  machines and then figure out what is being outside of all of
• 1:06:00
  these manuals.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_02: No manual for that, then there is no being.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay,
• 1:06:12
  take back the reins because I am taking this conversation
• 1:06:15
  somewhere else entirely
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_00: because of all these things I read recently.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_02: No, but it's actually leading us in a good direction.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_02: What came to my mind while Belina was talking about sleeping,
• 1:06:34
  and it brought me back to the question of relationship between
• 1:06:41
  being and awareness.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_02: So when I'm sleeping and I'm not dreaming,
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_02: Well, at least I'm not aware of them.
• 1:06:53
  Because I,
• 1:06:54
  in the majority of cases,
• 1:06:56
  I,
• 1:06:56
  for example,
• 1:06:56
  don't remember my dreams.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_02: Even if they say that we always dream, but I don't know.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm not aware of it, does it exist?
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_02: So like, if I just fall asleep, that was my last point of awareness.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_02: And the next, like the exit point, I wake up.
• 1:07:18
  Was I in the being between those two points when I was not
• 1:07:24
  aware of myself?
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_02: Did I exist?
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_02: My body existed.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_02: Did I exist?
• 1:07:38
  Well,
• 1:07:38
  your body is still doing a lot of stuff and it's tracking the
• 1:07:42
  environment.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you're not fully consciously aware of it,
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_00: it's tracking the environment,
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_00: it's gauging safety,
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_00: it's listening for noises.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_00: So there's actually so much doing.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_00: So then again, you see this begs the question, is the system us?
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_00: Even when we, us may not be aware of the system
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_02: but if I was not there because my awareness was not there,
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_02: okay,
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_02: my body was tracking the environment,
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_02: so what is for my being?
• 1:08:23
  But you may not really remember what you were maybe aware of,
• 1:08:29
  you just may not remember it.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let's take a case of Anastasia, for example.
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_02: She's like,
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_02: when you're in the hospital and they put you under the anesthesia,
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_02: it's not the question of remembering.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_02: You are not aware because you're not there.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_02: Your consciousness is not there.
• 1:08:51
  There is a point you get out and then you return again when
• 1:08:56
  they get you out of that state.
• 1:08:58
  Not all of us are not aware because a lot of people that go
• 1:09:01
  under actually can tell
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_00: you exactly what happened in the surgery room.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just that some of us are less aware than others.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_00: Some of us exit the body and they're actually hovering over the seat.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_00: They could tell you what happened.
• 1:09:14
  okay but if it's not the case so like in this case there is
• 1:09:18
  still like the
• 1:09:19
  awareness there so in the case when there is no awareness but
• 1:09:25
  but i think it's we
• 1:09:27
  discussed one of the definitions i guess it depends on the
• 1:09:30
  definition and one of
• 1:09:31
  the definitions that we discussed is um occupying the state and
• 1:09:37
  we probably argue
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_02: that when you sleep you occupy the state
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_02: And when you're under anesthesia,
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_02: someone else occupies or something else totally occupies your state.
• 1:09:52
  And in that,
• 1:09:54
  it wouldn't probably be being...
• 1:09:56
  Well,
• 1:10:00
  under anesthesia,
• 1:10:01
  the machine is being...
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_00: I say machine, but I mean our system.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Let me use a different word.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_00: They know how to turn off the synapses in the brain that perceive things,
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_00: but it does just because the system is not perceiving in the normal way.
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean that there are other layers of us,
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_00: whatever it makes us is not necessarily perceiving.
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_00: It just depends on how your
• 1:10:33
  consciousness again these words because they can mean a
• 1:10:36
  thousand different things
• 1:10:37
  but let's say your consciousness your soul your spirit whatever
• 1:10:40
  whatever some
• 1:10:41
  people have a consciousness that's actually able to still track
• 1:10:45
  what's going on and
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_00: some people's consciousness is not able to track what's going on
• 1:10:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's fine.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not generalizing that this always happens in this situation.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_02: What happens?
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just questioning if I am when I'm not aware
• 1:11:12
  of my experience if you're being if you're not aware of your
• 1:11:16
  experience are you
• 1:11:17
  being exactly i mean you're at least still alive you're still
• 1:11:22
  um connected to the
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_00: body my body is alive am i alive oh interesting
• 1:11:34
  That's a...
• 1:11:35
  I'm not sure we're going to be able to go into this question.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_02: No,
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_02: no,
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_02: that is just because,
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_02: I raised this question because in my perception,
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_02: my experience,
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_02: because I haven't had it twice,
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_02: my experience of Anastasia was exactly that,
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_02: just the part,
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_02: the chunk of my life was cut off of my experience.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I didn't live...
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_02: that chunk of my life.
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't exist.
• 1:12:07
  SPEAKER_02: So like there was point then I stopped existing, then it restarted again.
• 1:12:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so there was no, you're saying now there is a third state.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_02: So there is a doing state,
• 1:12:21
  there is a being state and there is a non-existent state that
• 1:12:27
  is also can,
• 1:12:29
  SPEAKER_00: that also can be possible.
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_00: The state of consciousness, I guess, is what Ira is describing.
• 1:12:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well,
• 1:12:38
  SPEAKER_02: it is the state of consciousness,
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_02: but the original question that I'm still not...
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have the answer for myself,
• 1:12:48
  SPEAKER_02: although I think that I tend to incline towards a certain direction,
• 1:12:53
  SPEAKER_02: is whether the being is related to the awareness.
• 1:13:03
  yeah to me the answer it can be both ways i also wouldn't have
• 1:13:10
  a definitive answer
• 1:13:12
  on this i feel like everything is on a spectrum and the context
• 1:13:15
  matter matters and
• 1:13:17
  the definition of what we're talking about matters and um i
• 1:13:23
  guess the the slogan of
• 1:13:27
  SPEAKER_02: today's episode is context matters
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_02: And we're still left with the question, what is even being is, huh?
• 1:13:42
  But I just want to shift gears a little bit and to get back to
• 1:13:50
  a more down to earth
• 1:13:54
  SPEAKER_02: plane,
• 1:13:55
  SPEAKER_02: I guess.
• 1:13:57
  SPEAKER_02: And my question, maybe the last question for today is,
• 1:14:05
  SPEAKER_02: So what would it take for you to spend more time in the state of being?
• 1:14:16
  And by the state of being,
• 1:14:18
  I mean to whatever extent you can occupy the state.
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just an opposition to the state of doing where
• 1:14:32
  SPEAKER_02: Which is done from,
• 1:14:33
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 1:14:34
  SPEAKER_02: social conditioning,
• 1:14:35
  from maybe rushing somewhere that you may not necessarily want
• 1:14:41
  to rush to.
• 1:14:47
  SPEAKER_02: That is the big question of my life.
• 1:14:50
  SPEAKER_02: What would it take?
• 1:14:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think that for me, it's what Ira was talking about.
• 1:14:58
  It's the consciousness and awareness and being intentional
• 1:15:03
  about occupying whatever
• 1:15:05
  SPEAKER_00: space or experience is.
• 1:15:08
  SPEAKER_00: more fully and not from the doing,
• 1:15:11
  SPEAKER_00: but more from the,
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_00: how do I occupy this experience or this,
• 1:15:16
  SPEAKER_00: these two minutes?
• 1:15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Literally,
• 1:15:17
  I was sitting on the beach the other day and I knew I had five
• 1:15:20
  minutes left that I
• 1:15:20
  SPEAKER_00: had to leave.
• 1:15:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then I thought to myself,
• 1:15:23
  SPEAKER_00: okay,
• 1:15:24
  SPEAKER_00: but five minutes,
• 1:15:26
  if I just let myself fully occupy each minute could actually
• 1:15:30
  feel like a very long
• 1:15:33
  SPEAKER_00: stretch of time.
• 1:15:34
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm in the doing, oh, I need to not forget the time.
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_00: I need to make sure to get up and back myself and walk home.
• 1:15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I'm in the doing layer, it's very different.
• 1:15:46
  And I just let myself feel and occupy those five minutes fully
• 1:15:51
  by just releasing
• 1:15:52
  SPEAKER_00: whatever needs to be done.
• 1:15:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it changed the experience of those five minutes and me really...
• 1:16:02
  SPEAKER_00: just occupying the nature and the sun and the ocean.
• 1:16:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just like a full release,
• 1:16:07
  SPEAKER_00: which is for me,
• 1:16:08
  SPEAKER_00: a marker of being like the release around the external stuff.
• 1:16:18
  SPEAKER_02: And again,
• 1:16:20
  SPEAKER_02: when you occupy the state so fully,
• 1:16:23
  SPEAKER_02: it can be that the flow of time also changes and time changes.
• 1:16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:16:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it requires consciousness and awareness,
• 1:16:39
  SPEAKER_00: which could technically be argued as a state of doing.
• 1:16:48
  SPEAKER_02: So anything from your experiment?
• 1:16:54
  I totally agree with Polina,
• 1:16:56
  but also I have to end with the same thing I started with.
• 1:17:03
  For me to be able to have more moments like this outside of
• 1:17:11
  doing because of the
• 1:17:12
  SPEAKER_02: social conditioning,
• 1:17:14
  SPEAKER_02: I need to integrate fully my no value.
• 1:17:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm still...
• 1:17:27
  that that that is a rather contradictory situation because
• 1:17:32
  you're like i i was
• 1:17:34
  about to say i'm still working on it while it would be like i'm
• 1:17:39
  still in the doing
• 1:17:44
  SPEAKER_02: while you're like i guess achieving it is really just
• 1:17:51
  letting myself to be more in the being with all the
• 1:17:57
  uncomfortable states and
• 1:18:01
  qualities that arise there in that context for me fully
• 1:18:09
  occupied discomfort fully
• 1:18:13
  SPEAKER_02: what fully occupying discomfort totally of discomfort yeah
• 1:18:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to get us back into our theme today,
• 1:18:30
  SPEAKER_02: subtopic,
• 1:18:31
  SPEAKER_02: that everything is contextual and the field and interconnectedness,
• 1:18:39
  SPEAKER_02: because in all my experience,
• 1:18:45
  now it's never a guess i realize how there are always different
• 1:18:51
  forces pulling and
• 1:18:53
  pushing and one such force as i said in my life is digital
• 1:19:00
  world that somehow it
• 1:19:02
  wasn't this way i don't know why it is i'm so sensitive to it
• 1:19:07
  now and the on the
• 1:19:08
  SPEAKER_02: other side of the spectrum is um nature is like
• 1:19:13
  SPEAKER_02: you know, trees, the soil, the birds.
• 1:19:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I...
• 1:19:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm...
• 1:19:30
  I think I don't have any illusions at this point about myself
• 1:19:40
  being a force there.
• 1:19:43
  I think I am between different forces and I can kind of choose
• 1:19:52
  consciously to steer
• 1:19:54
  SPEAKER_02: myself towards one or another and choose them as my allies,
• 1:20:02
  SPEAKER_02: but I don't see myself being
• 1:20:07
  SPEAKER_02: on my own or even doing on my own because you know if the social if the
• 1:20:14
  civilization wasn't there as Ira said if I were on an island I
• 1:20:21
  don't know like why
• 1:20:21
  would I want to be doing anything to survive I guess but maybe
• 1:20:33
  not I don't know
• 1:20:38
  SPEAKER_02: If there is no anyone else there, well, no, it could be magical islands.
• 1:20:47
  SPEAKER_02: Everything happens on its own.
• 1:20:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:20:52
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's, yeah, I don't know what would happen.
• 1:20:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just leaving it open and leaving room for some mystery.
• 1:21:05
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 1:21:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:21:08
  And now I invite you just to wrap up this conversation that
• 1:21:16
  took us to places that
• 1:21:20
  SPEAKER_02: I hadn't expected it would take us to.
• 1:21:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's quite a windy road.
• 1:21:29
  SPEAKER_02: And
• 1:21:32
  Let's just recap with,
• 1:21:37
  I don't know,
• 1:21:38
  like a sentence or two on what we're living with.
• 1:21:42
  SPEAKER_02: We're living with today.
• 1:21:44
  SPEAKER_02: I have... What I'm realizing right now is that
• 1:22:05
  SPEAKER_02: This exercise,
• 1:22:06
  SPEAKER_02: because we are in the self-development world,
• 1:22:09
  SPEAKER_02: I always think,
• 1:22:10
  SPEAKER_02: yeah,
• 1:22:11
  let's just learn to be and not to be more in the being and not
• 1:22:16
  in the doing.
• 1:22:16
  SPEAKER_02: And we always struggle.
• 1:22:17
  SPEAKER_02: I struggle with that.
• 1:22:20
  And I realized that it's no surprise that I struggle with that
• 1:22:27
  because we can't
• 1:22:29
  SPEAKER_02: even understand what we're talking about.
• 1:22:32
  SPEAKER_02: What does it mean to be in the being?
• 1:22:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it has a lot to do with what we mentioned,
• 1:22:41
  that we have this difficulty to know who we are because it
• 1:22:50
  involves too many
• 1:22:51
  SPEAKER_02: reflections,
• 1:22:52
  SPEAKER_02: too cognitive,
• 1:22:54
  SPEAKER_02: and we are getting out of fully occupying the experience.
• 1:23:01
  so i guess this is the phrase that i'm living with principally
• 1:23:08
  like fully occupying
• 1:23:10
  the experience it's like the the main guide of the being and
• 1:23:21
  there is a question
• 1:23:22
  SPEAKER_02: that drew my attention i find it very curious
• 1:23:30
  And I guess I want to ponder in it more like what collective
• 1:23:34
  being looks like or
• 1:23:36
  SPEAKER_02: feels like or what collective being is.
• 1:23:40
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even know how to phrase it, but this is interesting.
• 1:23:47
  SPEAKER_02: There is some essence here.
• 1:23:58
  I'm taking away fully occupying the experience and also the
• 1:24:06
  intention of leaving
• 1:24:08
  SPEAKER_00: behind value in order to disconnect from whatever those external,
• 1:24:20
  SPEAKER_00: some,
• 1:24:20
  SPEAKER_00: not all of them,
• 1:24:21
  some of the external pools that could get in the way of fully
• 1:24:25
  occupying the
• 1:24:25
  SPEAKER_00: experience and
• 1:24:39
  as always how language is so important and so not concrete and
• 1:24:47
  clear it you know
• 1:24:50
  words are just metaphors for things that are very different for
• 1:24:56
  everyone and even
• 1:24:59
  going from spanish to english to russian i mean already you can
• 1:25:02
  see how much
• 1:25:03
  SPEAKER_00: complexity there is just because of like the language itself um
• 1:25:09
  Collective being is a question if I'm also reflecting on
• 1:25:16
  collective consciousness,
• 1:25:17
  SPEAKER_00: because we don't,
• 1:25:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think we've talked about this before.
• 1:25:21
  There is a sense of energetics when we talk about collective
• 1:25:27
  consciousness,
• 1:25:28
  SPEAKER_00: because we can tell when collectively we're really like,
• 1:25:32
  SPEAKER_00: there's a lot more tension in the field.
• 1:25:37
  SPEAKER_00: So is collective being,
• 1:25:39
  SPEAKER_00: do you mean,
• 1:25:42
  what would it be like if we all collectively just turned off
• 1:25:46
  the doing and the
• 1:25:47
  SPEAKER_00: value systems and just like relaxed into the being?
• 1:25:51
  SPEAKER_00: What would that feel like?
• 1:25:54
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 1:25:55
  SPEAKER_02: It just, like, this question drew my attention.
• 1:26:03
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what it means for me yet.
• 1:26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's also a question for me too.
• 1:26:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's something that I'm wondering about.
• 1:26:11
  And I'm also wondering how we can come up with a different word
• 1:26:16
  so that it's not a
• 1:26:16
  SPEAKER_00: machine or tech when it comes to the body,
• 1:26:20
  SPEAKER_00: but like this system,
• 1:26:22
  like what words could we come up with that could be better
• 1:26:27
  words to reflect on the
• 1:26:30
  SPEAKER_00: complexity of this thing that's really like,
• 1:26:33
  SPEAKER_00: to me,
• 1:26:33
  SPEAKER_00: an autonomous piece of
• 1:26:35
  SPEAKER_00: tech or machinery, if you think about it.
• 1:26:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it's miraculous.
• 1:26:42
  SPEAKER_00: And there's something else occupying.
• 1:26:45
  The biology,
• 1:26:46
  the physiology,
• 1:26:48
  the chemistry of this thing,
• 1:26:49
  there's another aspect.
• 1:26:53
  SPEAKER_00: And are we still being if awareness is fully turned off?
• 1:26:58
  SPEAKER_00: Very interesting question.
• 1:27:01
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:27:06
  SPEAKER_02: taking from today is also fully occupying the experience.
• 1:27:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I am also taking a couple of questions that I will be asking myself.
• 1:27:23
  So if I'm not fully occupying this experience,
• 1:27:30
  who is occupying the experience?
• 1:27:34
  SPEAKER_02: And who am I?
• 1:27:36
  letting into my experience and by this again i don't have
• 1:27:42
  illusions that this is
• 1:27:43
  fully my experience i don't think i could like like fully fully
• 1:27:47
  for 100 percent
• 1:27:49
  occupy the experience um but of course i can you know i i do
• 1:27:56
  have some um influence
• 1:28:00
  SPEAKER_02: over the range to which i occupy and also um i
• 1:28:06
  SPEAKER_02: Who else?
• 1:28:08
  SPEAKER_02: What forces?
• 1:28:10
  SPEAKER_02: What beings are there?
• 1:28:13
  SPEAKER_02: And there I think I can make some more conscious choices.
• 1:28:20
  Okay,
• 1:28:21
  let me just push this one away or aside a little bit and invite
• 1:28:30
  another force in.
• 1:28:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's how I'm thinking about it.
• 1:28:37
  SPEAKER_02: And to your sharing about collective being,
• 1:28:45
  how I imagine collective being is through experiences that I've
• 1:28:52
  been part of where
• 1:28:54
  SPEAKER_02: people were not into doing at all and mostly involved
• 1:29:02
  sensing body whatever and it's so beautiful intoxicatingly
• 1:29:14
  beautiful i don't know
• 1:29:15
  how like what your definition about collective being would be
• 1:29:19
  and maybe i'm talking
• 1:29:20
  about a different thing but when you say these words some
• 1:29:25
  things come to mind some
• 1:29:26
  SPEAKER_02: experiences
• 1:29:30
  SPEAKER_02: And those are wild and worth living for.
• 1:29:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:29:38
  SPEAKER_02: And with that, we are going to end this episode.
• 1:29:42
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much.
• 1:29:45
  If you've stayed with us the whole way through the windy roads
• 1:29:48
  that we've taken
• 1:29:49
  SPEAKER_02: today,
• 1:29:50
  SPEAKER_02: we really appreciate you.
• 1:29:52
  SPEAKER_02: And if there is anything at all
• 1:29:56
  that you would be open to communicate to us in any way through
• 1:30:07
  Substack or
• 1:30:10
  I guess also through the podcasting platforms would be very
• 1:30:14
  delighted to hear from you.
• 1:30:16
  SPEAKER_02: And you would certainly hear back from us also with gratitude.
• 1:30:23
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you for being here.
• 1:30:25
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:30:26
  SPEAKER_02: See you next time.
• 1:30:28
  SPEAKER_00: See ya.
• 1:30:31
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening.
• 1:30:32
  SPEAKER_01: How was it for you?
• 1:30:34
  We believe that the more people experience group flow together,
• 1:30:38
  the better off we all are.
• 1:30:40
  SPEAKER_01: More connected, more creative, more alive.
• 1:30:44
  SPEAKER_01: So let's expand the field.
• 1:30:47
  SPEAKER_02: If this episode resonated with you, help us spread the word.
• 1:30:53
  SPEAKER_02: Share it with a friend, leave a comment or give us a rating.
• 1:30:58
  SPEAKER_00: We love you.
• 1:31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Do subscribe so you'll know when the next experiment comes out.
• 1:31:04
  SPEAKER_00: You can also connect with us on our life and flow group sub stack.
• 1:31:08
  SPEAKER_00: We'd love to hear from you.
• 1:31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Let's keep flowing together.