Latest / Free Therapy with Ben & Kevin / How to know if you're with the right person | Ben's mom #17

Transcript

How to know if you're with the right person | Ben's mom #17 · Free Therapy with Ben & Kevin

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The world needs free therapy. Hello, hello. I am Ben.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: You don't start the episode like that?
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Well, it's a big episode, dude. I want to come
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: in with the energy. Come on, you know who the
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: guest is.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Well, then I'm Kevin. And every week, Ben and I
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: sit down with a different therapist to unpack the stuff
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: that everyone's struggling with, but no one says out loud.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but this is not just a different therapist. This
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: is the most requested therapist to date. In the three
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: months we've been recording and that guest is.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Ben's mom, Beverly.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Ben's mom, Beverly. Well, if you know my mom, hi mom,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: you know how special she is. She's obviously a therapist
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: and has been practicing for such a long time. And honestly,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: one of the reasons this show exists is because of
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: my mom. You know, talking about my feelings growing up
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: was not very fun. Like it was not an enjoyable experience.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: But as I got older, I came to realize how
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: special it is. So special to have a mom like you.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: And to have a friend that has a mom like
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Beverly so that I could get free therapy. Okay, not
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: actually free therapy, but Bev over the past many years
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: has been giving me amazing advice and guidance at the
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: dinner table. And in this episode, it really felt like
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: we were having one of those dinner table conversations together.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: where she was just dropping truth bomb after truth bomb.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: And we got into how to know if you're actually
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: in the right relationship, whether you're being too picky or
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: actually holding out for what you really deserve. And we
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: get into who you need to become to attract and
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: build the kind of relationship you're looking for.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she really is so good at that. She really
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: just gave us amazing advice. And mom, seriously, just like,
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: I mean this, I'm talking to you directly right now.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: No one else, everyone else, you can stop listening. Thank
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: you so much for coming on this episode. It means
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: a lot to me. I know we've talked about it
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: for a while and I love you dearly. Everyone, please
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: go spam the comments. Tell her how much you love
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: her and enjoy the show.
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: Okay, so I don't know anything about what we're talking
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: about or not talking about. So you guys, like, I'm
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: just gonna be me.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: I just want us to go, dude.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: I don't want- I love you.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: So you guys are gonna have to edit.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: The episode's already started. No, I want to do my episode.
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: You guys are gonna have to edit out because I'm
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: just gonna be me as how I would ask you.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: It's funny.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: This is funny how we would start the episode. This
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: is the beginning of the episode.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: We're just arguing. Welcome to the episode where we welcome
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: Beverly Teller, Ben's mom, to free therapy. Ben, give the intro.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: It's so true.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: If there is one person- Who has been the most
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: requested on this podcast since day one.
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: That's not true.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: When's your mom coming on? Ben, when's your mom coming on?
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: It's pretty much Esther Perel and Beverly Tully. Yeah.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Literally, it's like, oh, no, we forgot. Terry Real, Esther Perel,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Beverly Tully.
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: Those are ridiculous.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: I think that's pretty accurate. Yeah.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: So, everyone, this is my mom.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Mom, say hi.
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: Hi.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: You know, I've known my mom for 37 years now. And.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: She's been, you know, an important piece of my life.
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: Nice.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: And I'm really excited for everybody to get to know her.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: And I'm also excited for everyone who already knows you
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: to see you in your element. Because people tell me
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: all the time how good of a therapist you are,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: how good of a listener you are, how good of
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: a friend you are. And it's such a gift that
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: I have a mom as a therapist. You know, growing up,
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: I did not feel that way. I was like, this sucks.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: And I was like 10, 12, 15. I'm like, mom,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: stop therapizing me.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: But like I was young and I was just.
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: You didn't actually say that then. You said it when
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: you were older.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: When I was like 20. Yeah.
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: You were older when you started to say that.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: All right. I'm just saying. It feels like a long
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: time ago. Yes. Because there came a point in our
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: relationship where I was like, wait, this is like the
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: coolest thing ever because my mom has this like wisdom
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: of life and and then actual practice. And I'm not trying, yeah.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: But it's true because I'm, you know, I'm 37 now,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: my brother's 34, you know, Kevin's 34, my older brother's 44.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Like everyone that my mom touches when it comes to
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: her love for you, she is able to just make
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: you feel seen in whatever you're going through and she
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: makes you feel more connected. I could list the names
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: of everybody.
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: I appreciate you saying that. I'm not sure that's true,
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: but I really appreciate you saying that. And what it
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: means is that's true for you and that's what matters.
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: Like I care that that's true for you.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: I disagree, everyone feels that way.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: I can also say, I can give another perspective that
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: a lot of the inspiration even around the show goes
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: back to some of those early days three years ago
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: when we'd come over to your house for dinner or
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: for lunch and we would just start talking.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: I would just get free therapy. Wow.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: And this is like post my breakup to your relationship.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: But you also saw me so much and you helped
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: me a lot, whether it was in that relationship, after
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: that relationship and in that transition and moving through. And
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: I agree with Ben, you really are a very, like
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: you're a force. I think what you do really well, Bev,
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: is that you not only have a really beautiful perspective
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: but you also are like an awakening force in people
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: because you're so real and yourself that you force people
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: to confront what's real inside of them. It's not always
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: what you say, but it's what you light up to.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: You made me go like, either I agree with that
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: or no, I actually feel like this. You would awaken
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: that in me.
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: Oh, wow. That's really well said. In the way that
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: I really appreciate that because- It's important to say that
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: in those moments, in those conversations, I'm not a therapist.
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: I'm not in my therapist mode. I'm just in me mode.
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: And I'm just talking to people that I care about,
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: which sort of makes the point of what the two
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: of you are doing, that therapy doesn't have to be
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: with a therapist, with a client, in the room, one-on-one.
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: It's anything that lights you up or transports you or
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: has you thinking in a different way. That's... essentially therapeutic.
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: And friends can do that for friends. Community members can
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: do that for community members. Children can do that for parents.
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: Parents can do that for children. Friends do that for friends.
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: So I like the idea of taking therapy outside of
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: a one-on-one in the room because lots of things are therapeutic.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: That's a really good reframe. Therapy feels like a lot
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: of pressure. Do I have to go to therapy? Or
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: you could just start opening up to people in your
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: life doing things outside of your comfort zone, learning about yourself,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: because it can be a therapeutic experience for you.
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, something that transports you, something that moves you, something
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: that has you thinking something different, something that has you
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: behaving a little bit different, or trying something out differently,
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: or being more vulnerable, opening yourself up to something. I just, like,
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: I think I, all my friends do that for me,
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: if I'm willing to show up and be honest and
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: open and vulnerable.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's get into what we want to talk about. Kevin, I...
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: have been really trying to prep this episode in a
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: way where we're like, what is something that we do
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: naturally as a group of three outside of the pod?
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: What's the one thing, mom, we talk about the most,
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: us three?
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: Relationships.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: Relationships. Always.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: What did we always talk about?
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: Relationships.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: Every single day we'd come to your house.
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: But what else is there? Like, that's what's important. Like, connections, relationships.
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: But I just want to say, this isn't therapy. Like,
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: what I do with the two of you.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: Is not therapy. Oh, they know, we know too. And
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: by the way, in the description.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: Good disclaimer.
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: It's important to me. The way I talk to the
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: two of you is often the way I talk in
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: the room, but you two are a family. And we
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: talk differently.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: That I just want to say this isn't there.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: This isn't how you would talk exactly to a client.
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: Maybe not exactly. Maybe somebody I know really, really well.
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: But I think the more casual therapy is, the better
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: it is. This is very casual.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: I think this is a beautiful topic to talk about because,
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: you know, again, we started these conversations in that transitional
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: point where I was coming out of a relationship. It
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: was a beautiful relationship, but it wasn't the right one
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: for me.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: And we had so many conversations around that. How do
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: you know if a relationship is right for you? And
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: who do you have to become to be in the
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: right relationship for you?
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: Wait, what does that mean? Who do you have to become?
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: Who do you have to become?
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: What do you have to compromise? Or what do you
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: have to.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: Could be, what do you have to compromise? Maybe what
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: expectations do you have that are... realistic and unreasonable.
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: And based upon something that is about you that doesn't
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: really belong in the relationship.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: Exactly. But also how do you have to be showing
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: up in your life to attract the relationship you want
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: or to, if you're in a relationship, to get the
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: relationship to a place where you're happy and excited about it,
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: you know? I think that was a lot of the
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: conversations we had.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: And I just want to say it happened during and
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: before too. Like it wasn't just at the ending.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: It was.
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: Like I remember, and I'm not sure if this is
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: okay to say.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, share anything at all.
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: Okay, I remember talking to each of you in the
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: relationship around both of you really wanting the relationship to
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: work and trying to understand what was your individual part
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: that was interfering with the actual entity of the relationship
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: and what was something that was important that you wanted
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: that you shouldn't compromise. Like there was all this parsing
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: out like understanding what was mine, what is the relationship,
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: what should be we working towards and what should I
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: be letting go because it's not realistic in a relationship
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: do you remember all that absolutely.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah because after we broke up I remember you saying
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: to me like Kev like what are you wanting in
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: your relationship that you weren't getting.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: Because she was great. She was a great person. She'll
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: be a great mother. She's a great partner. She's a
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: great person.
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: Totally she is.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: I just felt like we weren't for each other the
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: right match.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: And I think, to be honest, you both thought you
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: weren't for each other.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I agree.
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: Which is a lovely way that you guys both got
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: to at the end of the relationship in this really honest,
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: communicative way where you both sort of ultimately, maybe not
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: in the immediate breakup, but ultimately you both got to
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: that understanding that we good people, but we weren't right
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: for each other. It wasn't easy to get there.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: No, yeah, it wasn't.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: It wasn't.
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: And I remember that.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: But I remember you asking me, what are you looking
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: for that wasn't here? And I remember actually sharing things.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: And I remember I looked back on some notes and
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: some journals and there were some things that I shared
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: around the energy of the person for me. A warmth,
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: a sort of a joie de vivre maybe that I
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: live with and looking for that in my partner. And
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: it was a list of things. I mean, there was.
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: Do you remember the list? Are you going to say it?
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I could share it.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: I remember this.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: There was a level of like emotional intelligence, depth, and
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: spirituality that I desired.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: That spirituality was a big piece for you.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Big piece. Yeah. And the other big one was kind
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: of like the play of life I play a lot
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: in life. I do accents and I, I just like
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: dance in this. I talk to strangers all the time.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: There's like a, I'm like, I'm that kind of person.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: I'm like talking to the guy on the sidewalk for
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: 20 minutes. I'm like, that's just how I live my life.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: And I wanted more of that in my life. And
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: I felt like my relationship was a big part of that.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Those are some of the big ones, you know? And
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: then the first one I shared the sort of the, the,
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: the warmth, the, the energy. And I remember you sharing. No,
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: I remember you sharing at that time. Hey, Kev, do
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: you think you're being realistic?
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: And what you wanted a relationship to do for you.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: I remember that.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: Like you wanted it to be something for you.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yes. That's a good way. Yeah.
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: But that's what it is. The only reason we're in
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: relationships because we wanted to do something for us or
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: why be in a relationship in some way to make
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: us better, to. you know, give us something we don't
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: have otherwise or something we want to grow in ourselves.
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: There's lots of reasons to go for a relationship. And
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: I remember that, you wanting it to be something for
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: you or to enhance more of you almost. Is that accurate, Kev?
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I would say to bring out a
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: part of me.
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, more of you.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: More of me, more of the parts of me that
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: I knew I was.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: I think more of the best parts of me. Yeah.
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: And a relationship where I felt like what expands sort
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: of not only me, but like what I'm doing and
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: creating in the world. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Having my
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: relationship be part of that. I think that's important to
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: me because I work off people a lot. Like I'm
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: inspired by other people, you know? And so like for
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: that to be my relationship and the things that I'm
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: creating was important to me.
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: I just want to clarify that because that's like a
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: little new for me.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: And so I just want to name it more. So
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: what you're saying is, There is a version of me
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: that I like bringing into the world that's really important
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: to me. And I want my partner to enhance and
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: to help me grow and to be more of that
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: version of me. Not like it's their responsibility, but I
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: want more permission. And more like to be part of
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: that almost.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. What I think of it as is that their
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: own existence in that way gives me permission to live
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: more of me in my own way. And that becomes
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: a co-creation. Like if they are their free spirited, loving, playful,
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: you know, ecstatic self, it gives me permission in my
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: own way to be my loving, free spirited, ecstatic, playful self.
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: So can I ask a question about that?
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: I love that so much, the way you described it,
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: different than when I was thinking about it. So I
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: love that. Did you feel sometimes judged so you couldn't
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: be more?
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Because that wasn't her. She
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: was her own amazing self.
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: But it felt like when you were doing you in
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: the way that- I wasn't able to. You weren't because
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: it felt because she wasn't the same or thought about
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: it differently. you felt a little judgment.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: Less possible.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: Or just less comfortable doing it myself. And yeah, the
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: judgment's a part of that.
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, probably.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: And I think the question that I love to explore.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: That's so, I didn't know that. I love knowing that.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: You didn't know that.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: I didn't know that.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, interesting.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: I love that.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: I love that for you.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: And I think what's really interesting to explore today is
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: this question of, because after that happened. Yes. I had
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: a hope But I also asked myself that question a lot.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: Am I being unrealistic? Because I had never met anyone
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: like what I was describing. So I thought, am I
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: actually being unrealistic? Is Bev right? Like, I thought that
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: a lot.
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: Wait, I was a question.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: I wasn't.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: No, no, I know. You're right. That was a question.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: It was a question.
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: It wasn't that you were being unrealistic.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Correct. Correct.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: I would ask myself that question a lot because.
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: Is this realistic?
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: I didn't know if I was being unrealistic.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: How do I know if I'm being too selective? Too picky.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: Or if I'm actually holding myself to a vision in
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: my relationship and in love that I actually deserve or
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: that is part of what I'm meant for. What do
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: you think, Benny? I want to know what you think, Ben.
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: That's a big question, Kev.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: It's a big question. I think it's a question a
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: lot of people ask themselves, though.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: I don't think you ever know for sure. I don't
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: think you ever... actually know. Because every love is different.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Every love with every person you have is going to
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: bring out things in you that you didn't know were possible.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: And there's always going to be some things that maybe
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: you're yearning for. Because I think it's very hard to
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: know exactly what you need until you're in these relationships.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: And so I think it comes down to what you
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: did earlier, which was like, what are the things that
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: I really really need for myself in a relationship? What
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: are the things that I cannot live without? And what
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: are the things I can choose to live with? And
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: so when you have those things for you, because you're
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: in relationships and you learn, you then can decide and
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: you can evaluate in that relationship. And then you can
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: choose to move on or stay in it. And then
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: I also think that when you're in that relationship, you
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: also get an opportunity to share that with the person
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: you love. The things that you really need and want
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: that maybe aren't at your expected standards for yourself or
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: for the way you thought it would be. And I
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: think you give the person the opportunity to see that.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: And then what?
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: I think another way to say it would be like
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: share your vision for your relationship.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: Share your hope for the relationship.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Totally. Yeah.
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: And then you give that person an opportunity to become
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: more of that thing that you need or want or desire.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Because I don't think, I think that whole thing is like,
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: do people change? And it's like, it's not about that.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: It's about Love expands you, right? I believe that love
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: is expansive, right? It makes you grow into the person
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: you should be. It shows a mirror to the problems
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: that you have. My therapist says this all the time.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: He goes, love is less about compatibility. It's more about
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: the mutuality of impact that each other has, that you
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: have on each other's life. Because if you are helping
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: somebody be a better version of themselves, that is way
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: more profound than someone who is exactly... you know, the
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: things that you think you need, because what you need
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: is very based off of like how you were raised.
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: I love that so much. You were actually describing that.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was.
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: It goes right back to what you were describing. I
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: love that.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. It's beautiful. Yeah. It is. So this is
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: like a very, I think a lot of people think
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: about relationships the way we're talking about it right now,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: because how do you know? Yeah.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You date someone because you love who they are,
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: but you date someone because you love how you are
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: when you are with them.
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: 100%.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: That's what lights you up. And I think a lot
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: of that, okay, so to that question, first, I think
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: you're right. There is no answer to the question.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: I think it includes a lot of faith.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: Like for me, post-breakup, I think it includes a ton
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: of faith. You don't think so?
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to understand what faith is.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: If it doesn't get defined somehow, I don't actually know
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: what we're talking about.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: Good, good.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: Like patience and- Uh-huh. And waiting and experimenting and trusting.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: Well, I guess maybe I'll say personally, post-breakup, first question
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: I asked myself more than anything else was, and we
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: talked about this, if this relationship didn't work, who do
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: I have to be to be in the relationship that
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: I want to be in?
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: That's a good question to ask yourself.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: It was probably the most important question I asked.
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: But can you ask it again? Can you say it again?
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: It's a good question, Kev.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if this relationship didn't work, who do I have
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: to be and show up as in my life to
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: be in and attract the relationship that I want to
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: be in?
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: I just have to say, like, there's something about that
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: that hurts me a little bit because it's talking about,
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: it doesn't go back to the relationship as not being
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: a fit. There's some individual thing that you're talking about
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: now that I don't really understand as you're saying it.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: Because we were talking about the relationship and now you
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: went to the individual.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: I felt like based on how I'm showing up in
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: my life, you attract a certain person. You track energy.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: You track types of people. People are interested in certain
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: things based on how you're showing up. That question sort
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: of led me to, well, my life is like this.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: I was doing this and this. I was doing real
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: estate at the time. This is like what my life
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: looked like. A partner, someone I go on a date
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: with is looking at my life and going, does that
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: match up with my life? And there was a lot
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: of ways that I would show up like with friends
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: or internally or at home that I was not showing
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: up in the world as.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: Oh.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: And after the breakup in that year, I asked that
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: question a lot. Who do I need to become to
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: be in the relationship I want to be in?
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: To attract the type.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: Of person I want to be in a relationship with. Yes. Yes.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: And that's when I started Saturday Soul. Because I was like,
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: this is who I am and I'm not actually creating
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: any of this in the world. And so the person
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: that I want to be with would never know that
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: I'm the person for them.
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: This is, I love this so much.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: I had no idea. You didn't know that?
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: Come on.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: I didn't know it was the genesis of Saturday Soul
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: was part of the breakup. It was part of your
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: last relationship. Because I was.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: Like, what am I creating and doing in the world
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: that actually shows anybody who I am?
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: That I knew you wanted to do. It's the genesis
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: of the fact that the end of your relationship, you
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: were feeling a certain kind of way. In your post
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: of the breakup, you realized you had to do something
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: to attract the type of person, your next partner. And
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: if you play it out correctly, here you are.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And sort of throwing events into this. And it didn't,
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: it's not that it didn't involve a lot of nights
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: of like ice cream and staying up till two in
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: the morning.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Am I, am I an idiot?
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: Am I stupid? Did I make a mistake? What did
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: I do? Should I have stayed? All these questions. Yeah.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: But I also held onto this hope, this faith of like,
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: And honestly, I pulled this up as I knew we
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: were going to talk about this because I had like
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: mantras that I would read every morning for two years. Really,
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: every morning.
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: Tell me.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: I'll read a couple that really made sense.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: Some of them that revolved around a relationship were like,
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: the love of my life will be trustworthy, loving, and affectionate,
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: have depth and emotional intelligence, be beautiful to me, and
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: dance through life with her light, playful nature.
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: Ooh.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: Like I'd read that every morning because that's what I wanted.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: It's like your girlfriend.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: And it sounds like– Your girlfriend. Yeah, it does.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: It sounds like your girlfriend.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: It sounds like her.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: In a great way.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: It's amazing.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: In the dream way.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Totally.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: It was interesting because there was actually another therapist who
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: asked me soon after the breakup. She said, why aren't
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: you in a relationship? Like I was at a Tony
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: Robbins event. She's like, you're a great guy. Why aren't
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: you in a relationship? She said, have you made your
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: non-negotiable list? And I was like– No. And she's like,
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: let's do it. Spend an hour with me just like
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: at an event writing this down. Those are the five things,
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: the things that I said. That's where that mantra came from.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: And I read those for a year. And then a
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: year ago, this other coach said, have you ever made
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: a list of everything you want in a partner? And
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: I was like, I have like my non-negotiable list. He's like, no, no, no. Everything.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Everything you're looking for. In terms of religion and spirituality,
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: in terms of this, how she shows up and all this.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: And I, so I was like, no. And I made
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: this list of like four pages of just like, To me,
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: I was writing the list being like, this is crazy. Like,
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: I don't need all these things. These are unreasonable kind
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: of things. And after all that sort of second guessing
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: and back and forth, and I'm not sure I'm holding
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: onto that hope and faith, like I'm in a relationship
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: right now where like, she is all of those things
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: that I wanted, that I was like hoping for. And
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: it's kind of, it blows my mind. It's kind of
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: crazy and so beautiful at the same time.
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: So how do you make sense of that personally?
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: How do I make sense of it? I don't.
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: What's the story you tell yourself about the fact that
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: that's true for you?
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: I just say, thank you. I'm just kind of grateful.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: Because I think the story that I tell myself is
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: that It took me going through that whole process of doubt,
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: of uncertainty, of I'm not sure, of maybe there's hope,
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: of I feel like I'm meant for this, or I
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: feel like there's someone out there, even though I don't
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: really have evidence of that. And is it there? And, oh, shit,
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: it's not. And going on another date, another first date,
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: another first date, another first date, another first date. No,
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: it's not her. It's not her. It's like over and
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: over until I met my current girlfriend who after our
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: second date, I was like, I've never met someone like
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: this before.
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: Can I tell you for me, if I was going
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: to like look for the most important part of this story?
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, please.
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: It's that you took the initiative to be more of
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: who you want to be in the world to attract
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: the type of people you want to attract. You did
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: something different. You didn't actually sit back and wait, make
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: your list and see if somebody came to you, which
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying is not an important thing. But you
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: actually went out in the world, started to create the
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: type of person that you wanted to attract by being
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: the person you wanted to be. You did that work.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: That's such a good point. Right.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: 100 percent.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Right. Yeah. 100 percent. That you you just like. Everyone
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: who sits there and says, I'm just going to manifest it. Well,
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: maybe you actually have to put action into the world
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: and put the energy out there, which is a really
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: like that is something that people need to remember.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: It's not just going to attract you. You have to
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: go get it.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: And it's not on your timeline.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: No.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: You just got to put yourself out into the world.
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: You got to be the thing that you want to attract.
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: That's what you said. And you weren't enough of who
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: you wanted to attract. You weren't fully you out in
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: the world. You became more you. And it turns out
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: when you became more you, like honest, congruent, authentic you,
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: turns out that's what you got.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: What kind of advice would you give to somebody who's maybe,
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: and you too, Kev, is kind of stuck or is
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: out of a relationship or hasn't found the person? Like,
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: what kind of advice, like therapy, would you give someone
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: to go back out there and try something? But they're like,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: what do I try? How do I do it? What's
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: the first, what are some questions they can ask themselves?
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Or how would you get them unstuck?
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: So this comes up all the time. And this may
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: not be the answer you're looking for. But people always
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: come in and go, am I ready to date? I
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: went through this thing. And there was this other trauma
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: I had. And you know, do you think I'm ready
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: to date? I'm like, I don't know. Like, I don't know. Like,
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: I don't know ahead of you knowing. Therapists don't know
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: ahead of you knowing. I'm not for therapy that gets
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: ahead of you. It tells you what is good for
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: you or not good for you ahead of you knowing
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: what's good for you. So this is what I always say.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: Let's go out and date and then let's see what happens.
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: And then we'll get information and then we'll know what
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: you need after you do that. So That's my answer
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: to that. Like, go practice.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: Go do the thing that scares you. And we'll find
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: out a lot of things about whether you're ready or
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: what gets in the way of not being ready. But
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: I don't know ahead of you knowing.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Ben, I'm sure you're going to have a lot to
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: say about this, Beth.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: It's interesting what you're going to ask me because I
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: had a great segue in a different conversation, but you
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: can do it.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: I love this.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: I love that he knows. Well, I think for a
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: long time you were very picky.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: In dating.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah. What was that? What the fuck was that? All right, mom.
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: I already have so much to say.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: Well, you weren't even like, there wasn't even like a
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: list of things. It was like, whatever would come up,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: they were not the one. And then it would just
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: go to, you know.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Wait, until they were the one and I never met them.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: Exactly. And you made up this like amalgamation of imaginary
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: attributes that didn't actually exist that you were looking for.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: I'm in love and we've never met. What changed for you?
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: Like what helped you stop finally being unrealistically picky and selective?
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: What do you think?
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: Well, I just want to say we're using words like unrealistically.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: Picky and selective. That's true. I'm being overly– I am
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: not the judge.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: No, no.
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: I'm just saying those aren't– I'm not sure those are
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: the right words of what he was doing. So the
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: question to me is what were the barriers? to actually
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: getting out of that sort of stuck place.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: I have an answer for that. Yeah.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: Therapist.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: Therapist. She's good.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: That was, that was, that was, um, the barriers. I mean,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: the first thing was like this.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: Pressure.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: I was putting on myself to be a certain kind
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: of guy that was, that was good enough for a girl. I,
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: if I had a job and I had money and
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: I had muscles and I had clothes and I had
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: the house and the apartment, then a girl would like me.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: That was like the biggest one.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: So I just want to say, so there was a
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: safety net in the, I have to be all these things.
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: So potentially I am somebody, somebody selects. So I'm potentially
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: not rejected.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: Which was like the love yourself until you Yeah, that
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: trope of like you can't love anybody to love yourself
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: kind of thing. I was like, I got to work
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: on myself. I got to get a better job. So
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: I was the first barrier.
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: The ideas you had around gender and masculinity and manliness.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: And those didn't come from you. They came from out here.
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: So they're not actually yours. You just internalize them. Let's
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: be clear about that. You weren't born with them. They
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: were given to you and you internalize them.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: Right. Right, right. I was told I didn't have enough
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: because of what society deemed as manly. And this is
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: also like, if we think about like when I was single,
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: I was single from 37 now. And I'll admit I
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: was single pretty much 26 to 36.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: And that's like a long time to be single. And
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: I'm a normal, cool guy that people want to be
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: friends with. So the question was, what the fuck's wrong
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: with you? Yes, you are.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: Was he?
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: Is he? You're like, what the fuck's wrong with you?
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: I'm too picky. Like, yeah, you got to wait. And
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: I'm just like, but it was like, It started to
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: get a little bit like long. And I think my
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: therapist has been really good about this because he's like,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: you know, it's not a problem that you were single
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: for so long because you knew why. Like I knew
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: looking back, it made sense why I was single. It
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: made sense. Right. I was. I haven't uncovered my past.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: I was dealing with stuff in the present. Lots of trauma.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: Lots of trauma. So it makes sense.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: You wouldn't let yourself, you start dating and then you stop.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: But in the time, exactly. Yeah, too vulnerable, right? And
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: in the time, I didn't want to be that vulnerable.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: So I was a barrier. And then I think other
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: things were like, you know, I don't think I had
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: the right idea of what dating really was at the time.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: I thought, I don't think this anymore, but I thought
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: that If you're unsure, if you like the girl and
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: she's hot and fun or if she's attractive and you're
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: attracted to her, I'm going to take that back. I'm
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: going to change that.
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you will change that.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: What did you say? What did you say growing up?
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: What did you say growing up? If I said, this
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: is the story I tell, and I guess we'll just
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: keep this, is that when I was walking in the
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: mall at like nine years old, I'd be like, oh,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: that girl's so hot, mom. And she'd be like, no,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: women are not hot. They're not objects. She is pretty.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: I'm like nine years old. Everyone in school said.
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: You were watching Baywatch. Baywatch was a problem.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: I did like Pamela Anderson at the time.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: It was such a problem.
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: Like, the objectification of women was strong.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: But I wasn't objectifying the women because I just did
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: it because everyone else did it. Yeah. But you were.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: No.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: What's the quality of her character? I'm like, I don't know, Mom,
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: it's Pamela Anderson. I don't know her that well.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: You're funny. So.
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: We're not keeping it, but.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: I think that's good.
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: Okay, whatever.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: Okay, go on.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: The point I was going to make was I thought
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: even if you were attracted to a girl and she
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: had good qualities, if you didn't feel great at the
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: beginning and if you were unsure if you were going
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: to marry her, you had to end it. Because I
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: felt too bad about leading somebody on. Because I thought
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: you should know. I thought there should be this insane feeling.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: Society says you should feel that. You were looking for
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: this fireworks, lightning. No, right away. TV type love. And
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: so early on, if I was on like, four dates
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: with a girl and we were like vibing, having fun.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: I was like, I'm not too sure. And then I'd
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: be like, okay, cool. You got to end it now.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: Cause she's fallen in love and you can't, but even then, like,
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: you don't even know if a girl is, I wouldn't
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: even ask her and I would just end it.
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: Because you weren't sure. And if you weren't sure you
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: took too much responsibility for her feelings and what she
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: might be feeling towards you. And that made you back
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: up and go, that's too much pressure. That's too much responsibility.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: So I'm out because I'm not sure.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: And what I love about this is, you know, both
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: of you are in relationships now. We can say this.
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: We're both in relationships now. And whatever choices the two
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: of you are making about your relationships, they're new enough
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: that nobody's sure. But you're taking all these steps based
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: upon what it feels like right now and moving forward
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: with what it feels like right now. And nobody has
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: a crystal ball. Who knows if it's going to work out?
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: But this is how we find out whether it's going
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: to work out, by taking big, bold, risky steps. And
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: I think it's important to think about if it doesn't,
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: there should be some responsibility for how people will be
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: taken care of if it doesn't work out. But people
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: are responsible for that individually. But there's no, like, take
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: the big, bold, risky move. Because what's the, like, if
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: it doesn't work out, okay. What happened? Like heartbreak?
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Right.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: Grief?
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: Sadness?
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: Welcome to life.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah. As long as you're communicating and being honest.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: But I couldn't be honest with her.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: You weren't communicating and being honest.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: No way. Because like I thought, I wasn't young. I
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: didn't know love grows over time. You get to know
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: someone better. The more you show yourself, the more she
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: shows herself. I didn't know what was going on in
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: her life. So I was like, why is she acting
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: like that? I wasn't even curious.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: You were even assuming all of it. She wanted something.
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: Totally.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: Based off of doing that. Yeah.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: A lot. Yeah. Between 28, 30.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: And I was like, you'd end it before even communicating
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: what you wanted.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: And maybe I feel like this is maybe moving a
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: little too fast or, Hey, I feel when you said
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: that it made me think about, is that what you meant?
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: You didn't do any of that.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Or I'm in a place in my life where like,
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: I want, I want a date, but I'm not sure
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: this is my life partner kind of stage. And she
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: may have had the same.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: And, Probably a lot of them did.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: And I was like, cool. I didn't even give us
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: an opportunity to get to know this person, but even
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: learn about myself. How many years did I let go
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: by where it's fine, but I didn't get to learn
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: about myself through relationship? Yeah.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: Which is a bummer.
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: Oh, that hit me so much, Ben. That hit me
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: so much because I think that's exactly right. It's why
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: I say, I don't know if you're ready to date.
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: Go out and date and we'll find out.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: Because you... You lost this opportunity just to figure out
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: things about yourself.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: And I'm sorry about that.
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: But I look back at that time and I say,
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: you know what? Things fell into place they were meant to.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: I had to experience New York and COVID and therapy
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: and some trauma. I had to rehash things to get
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: to where I was. Or to get to where I am. Maybe. Yes,
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: you don't know.
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: I don't know what we have to go through to
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: learn the lessons. I don't think about it in that way.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: It would be nice if I went through one less
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: thing in hindsight. It doesn't matter.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: It would have altered the trajectory.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: Totally.
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: Yes, that's true.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: That's how I choose to look at it. Yes, I
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: get it. We get to choose how we look at it, right?
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: 100%.
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: But I think mostly we're caught by fear of taking
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: some risks because we're not sure what the outcome is
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: going to be and it's super uncertain. And that uncertainty
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: or lack of certainty scares us into not taking a step.
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: Mostly that's what we're all.
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: Uncertainty scares us into inaction. Yes.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: Okay. So back to relationships. So mom, you gave a
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: talk at Gavin's, our brother's, your son's speaker series.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: For a lot of his students.
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: About relationships.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: About relationships. And you said in that talk, and I
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: went back to back years, and you said the number
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: one indicator is of a successful or healthy relationship is
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: conflict resolution.
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: Yes, your ability to resolve conflict in healthy, respectful, slow
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: ways where understanding is sought versus right or wrongness, which
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: everybody does.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: So how does someone in a relationship get better at
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: resolving conflict? What are the indicators that you're resolving conflict
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: well in a relationship?
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure who said this. And it could be, look,
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: there's lots of brilliant therapists I've learned from. Lita Barrera,
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: Allie Borden, Lynn Rosen, Larry Zucker. So I don't want to, like,
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: none of this is mine. It's somebody else's. And I
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: want to make sure I name, like, the brilliant therapists
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: I've learned from. But it's not about right or wrong.
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: In conflict resolution, it's about understanding. So if we can
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: understand each other, not that we agree that there isn't consensus,
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: but that we have enough respect for one another to
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: understand somebody else's values or ideas that support them to
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: show up in the way they show up, that we
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: don't have to come to consensus. We can just say,
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: I understand. I even disagree, but I can see that
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: really matters to you. So I'm not going to fight
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: to get you to think the way I think or
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: believe the way I believe. I'm going to respect that
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: we're different and that can we negotiate how we're going
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: to get through this even though we think about it differently,
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: believe about it differently. But if we understand and respect
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: one another, that's the key. And we don't see a
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: lot of that in culture right now. We are so
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: much in a cancel culture place right now. So that
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: to me is an indicator of a relationship that can
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: last and sustain itself through conflict.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've always had the fear of ending up in
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: a marriage and a relationship where I'm unhappy, where I
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: feel trapped.
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: What's that related to?
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's related to historical stuff. I point a little bit,
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: but I love you. No, it is related to historical stuff.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: It's related to my family, and it's related to my
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: family origin, and all that kind of stuff.
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: Totally.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: I'm in this amazing relationship right now, and I think
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: you asked me this before the episode, why do I
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: feel the way I do, why am I moving so
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: openly in the relationship?
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: I think I said, how do you know?
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right.
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: I said, how do you know that this is a
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: relationship that you would take this step or that step?
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I don't feel any of that. I feel
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: like if this is the person that I spend the
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: rest of my life with, I'm excited about that. I
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: don't feel trapped or unhappy in any way, you know?
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: But there's always been this thing that I had in
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: the past of I don't want to end up in
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: that relationship. How do you know when someone's the right person?
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: So I just want to say I don't know. But
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: you're asking a really good question. And I guess a
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: simple way to think about this, and I think about
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: this in a recovery model way if I'm dealing with addiction,
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: Or substance misuse issues or I do a lot of
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: eating disorder work and like some trauma recovery work. I
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: think about yellow, orange and red flags. I do think
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: about this. Like, so are there any yellow flags, you know,
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: or orange flags or red flag? Red flags are red flags,
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: but there are generally yellow flags before there are orange
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: flags before there are red flags. So I really like
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: sort of going, you're sort of talking like there's not
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: even a yellow flag. So I'm like, why wouldn't you
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: move forward? Yeah. But it isn't about knowing ahead of
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: the outcome. It's really about when a yellow flag comes up,
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: are you talking about a yellow flag? If an orange
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: flag comes up, are you talking about the orange flag?
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: It's about dealing with it as it comes up and
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: not being afraid to have hard conversations where someone's going
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: to be disappointed or someone's going to be scared or
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: it might be the end and so I don't want
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: to do it. I don't know. You don't know. Just
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: be willing to have the conversation if a yellow flag
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: comes up or an orange flag comes up.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: That's great advice.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: It's a good analogy. It really is.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: I think the fear was being stuck if I was
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: unable to communicate or bring it up when the yellow
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: flag came up before it became an orange flag, before
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: it became a red flag, right?
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: So if I want to circle back to the first
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: relationship we're talking about, you guys struggled in that way.
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: Like I was in on those conversations. And there wasn't
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: good understanding, good communication about potentially what was a yellow
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: flag to her or what was a yellow flag to you.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: And you guys were trying to talk about yellow flags
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: and there wasn't good understanding about it. There was more
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: like a little bit of blame, a little bit of
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: something else that wasn't understanding and good, good communication about it.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: I don't think I did a good job of... Explaining
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: what color flag it was for me.
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: Or just how important something was for me.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: We were talking about this the other day. I wasn't
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: good at explaining how important it was. So I would
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: share something and she would think, okay, that's somewhat important
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: to him. When I would share it, it was so
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: important for me. Yes.
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: I think she did the same thing.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: And I'm sure she did the same.
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: I think she did exactly.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: You would know.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think she did this.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: I haven't been no my they been introduced me to my. Yeah.
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: So I think she was like, because you guys really
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: cared about each other and you didn't want to hurt
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: each other. And you were sensitive to how the other
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: person felt, which is beyond lovely.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: Totally.
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: But it stopped you guys from actually doing the kind
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: of communication that probably would have ended it sooner. I'm
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: just saying.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: I've thought that. I've thought that. I do think everything
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: happens exactly as it's meant to and everything falls into place,
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: as Ben likes to say. But also, I agree with you.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: I think because we weren't more clear. Yeah.
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: Brave and risk-taking and vulnerable and open and communicative.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: We were able to just be in this relationship. It
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: was nice and sweet and, you know, happy, but without
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: really getting to the meat of what was really on
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: her mind or how important it was and on my mind.
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: This has been so fun. Yeah. No, seriously, mom. no
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: mom like it has no but i've been like i've
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: been sitting here right the whole time when i mean
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: i'm grateful that kevin you opened a lot in this
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: episode i really appreciate it and mom like this has
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: been fun but i took a second to sit back
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: and i'm like how cool is this like i am
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: on doing a podcast my best friend my mom is
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: on the show as a guest like 10 years old
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: 12 years old 20 years old 25 years old 30
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: years old like this doesn't happen for a lot of
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: people yeah it's a very unique experience and it I truly,
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: truly think that this podcast, I'm just going to say this,
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: would not have been possible without you. It doesn't exist
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: without the way you raised me. It doesn't exist without
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: the way you've helped Kevin in the past and the
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: way you've loved our friendship. The podcast doesn't exist without that.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: Like therapy, you were a big influence for this podcast.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: And I think, you know, because of who you are,
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: you're able to give us the platform to help other people, right?
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: To help other young men. We talked about this when Oh,
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: we didn't share that. We surprised. Anyways, at the end
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: of the day, like when we first told my mom
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: that we were doing this podcast, we surprised her. And
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: it was really funny. Maybe we'll show the clip. Maybe
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: we won't. But the biggest thing my mom said was,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: I was like, Mom, what's your biggest hope for the podcast?
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: I might paraphrase, but I hope that there can be
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: more men like the two of you in the world.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: That is my hope because I love the two of
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: you so much. And you guys are good men. in
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: the world. I want good, I want more good men
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: in the world. And you guys are that for sure.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: Thank you. So mom, are you taking new clients?
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: Where can people find you?
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: Go to benteller.com and respond on the form. I want
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: to talk to your mom.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: DM me. Yo, is your mom around? I need some help.
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: I love you, Bev.
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: We love you so much.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: Thanks for coming on the show.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: Love you, mom.
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: Love you both so much. So proud of the two
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: of you.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: Love you, Benny.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: Love you.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: Love you, Bev.
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: Love you, Bev.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: She said, was this good?
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: Was this good?
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: It was so good.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: Guys, so after you listen to this, everyone, my mom
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: is worried if it was good. So if you're listening
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: to this, go leave a review and a comment and
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: like it so I can show her how much you
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: loved it so she can come back.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: Do it for us. Do it for Bev.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I want her to come back on and she
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: won't come back on unless everyone tells her how amazing
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: it is. So her cell phone number is, no, I'm
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: just kidding.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: Hey, thanks for listening. We appreciate you.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this episode and us embarrassing ourselves and
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: talking about our feelings, you are definitely going to like
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: everything else.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: Follow along on Instagram, at Freetherapy, and we'll see you
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: next time.