Latest / Beyond The Trailhead / Dry Brew Ceo/Founder John Schade | Beyond the Trailhead Podcast Ep. 46

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Dry Brew Ceo/Founder John Schade | Beyond the Trailhead Podcast Ep. 46 · Beyond The Trailhead

• speaker-0: Alright everyone, welcome back to another episode of Beyond the Trailhead. ⁓ this week we just got back from Outdoor Retailer and ⁓ had a couple friends ⁓ that we knew from the show, wanted to have them on the pod. And ⁓ one in particular ⁓ think which is a really cool product, I think we all love ⁓ coffee. We all have our morning coffee and everything else, ⁓ coffee on the trail, ⁓ coffee at work, ⁓ but wanted to have ⁓ someone from Dry Brew, and in particular John the president. How are you doing, John? speaker-1: Good, again. It's good to be here. speaker-0: Awesome. Well, great to have you on. I know we met ⁓ last year and we've been doing well I've been doing I guess we I always mention we because my wife and I do the business together, but we've done a few pictures for you guys. ⁓ have had a ton of dry brew myself on the trail and when I do like some through hikes and stuff like that. I've had dry brew and I'm not really good at explaining products to people. I think the people who create the products or are the company owner usually are really great at Promoting and telling us a little bit about your product. So wanted to get into it because I think it's one, it's amazing. Two, you're in retail and stuff like that, as well as online. You have a great ⁓ online presence with your social medias and everything else. And so I guess go ahead and just tell us a little bit about you, how you got involved in Drybrew and and ⁓ what dry brew is, anyways. speaker-1: Yeah. So ⁓ yeah, one. It's exciting to be here and share our story. ⁓ so Drybrew, ⁓ so we launched the company back in twenty twenty four. So at the end of the year. So we are just about at our two year anniversary of being a company, which is really exciting. and the initial use case was that we wanted coffee while driving. So that was like that first hurdle that we were ⁓ that kind of had the the inception of the business from. and then from there, my co-founder, ⁓ Mikey, so his his dad is an engineer. ⁓ so he was in the Navy, he was a master chief, and he just he's a the all-time tinkerer of different ideas and just garage experiments. So ⁓ ultimately we, you know, he he was tasked with this idea to make coffee that you can drive with without spilling on yourself and then inevitably stopping for the bathroom in five minutes. So ⁓ that's what he did. So he came up with this chewy Tootsie Roll like product. ⁓ and it is real coffee and a non dairy creamer and it's just absolutely delicious. speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ my so one, I love it just 'cause it's non dairy. Two, 'cause I know then no one has to worry about dairy allergies and stuff like that. My son, I you know, I'm sure like you're like, don't use it if you're under a certain age or whatever. But I give it to my son every once in a while. We go like fishing early in the morning because he's like, Man, I'm so tired, I don't wanna go. And he's like, Can I have a dry brew though? And I was like, Okay, cool. So I give him a dry brew 'cause he's he's allergic to milk. So I'm like, All right, cool, you can have this and then like ten minutes later he's You know, he's thirteen, so he's jumping all over the river. He's already freaking out. But ⁓ so I guess I wanna get into kind of like did you ⁓ when you first started it, were you just like gung ho trying to get into certain places? What was the what were the what was the premise behind the whole thing other than just kind of a ⁓ a bite that so you don't have to worry about it on the road and and everything? speaker-1: Yeah. So it's funny. We early on just l we're just so passionate about the product. We just wanted to just give it to everybody and just spread the word. So ⁓ we would just go to farmers markets ⁓ around us and just sell products just directly to anyone on their Saturday morning stroll, right? So just like pitching the product like crazy and everybody was like, ⁓ my God, this is so cool. You should go in Shark Tank. And it just that was that became a natural theme. So it really didn't start off with like, great, like we're gonna get into Bass Pro tomorrow. Like that was not really the idea, right? It was just share it and just see where the product can actually ⁓ go. and yeah, we got some some early wins but just by going to these local shows and just selling it to people that are really there for, you know, their weeks groceries at the farmer's market or some fun trinkets. So ⁓ it's nice to kind of be that outlier product in some of these environments. speaker-0: Yeah. And your product, ⁓ for those who are listening and they can't see anything, you know, it's basically a like you said, it's like a Tootsie roll kind of a texture. I always say laffy taffy texture for me for some reason. But yeah, Tootsie Roll, ⁓ texture, ⁓ coffee chew. I love it 'cause it gives you the taste of coffee in your mouth and everything else. ⁓ and then there's like there's a few, right? There's like the like a regular, there's a double shot. speaker-1: Yep. And then there's a salted caramel. and we we try to keep up with the seasonal trends. So we'll be launching ⁓ pumpkin spice in two weeks. ⁓ very polarizing. Some people are very excited about pumpkin spice. Some people are like, ⁓ you're selling out to the to the coffee overlords, but it's it's a delicious product. ⁓ and then for anyone that is watching, I'll just do a quick little like demo because this is our double shot. ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: And it is just a full cup of coffee that is in this like Tootsie Roll or Laffy Taffy kind of texture, right? So it's chewy. and ⁓ yeah, that's part of, you know, the education that we have to do is letting people know that it is chewy. It is not coffee grounds, it's not something that's granular that's gonna be gross and leave this weird, you know, texture and stain in your mouth. speaker-0: So ⁓ I guess I was gonna l kind of lead into that. Like it what what is the biggest outside of that, like the ⁓ marketing it, right? Like you're you're s showing people I know when I first had it, I was like, ⁓ this is awesome. But it's one of those things that sometimes I think you need to have it in people's hands, right? And have them taste it and try it. But at the same time, the the barrier of entry for somebody is not that high as opposed to someone buying a fifty dollar shirt or you know hundreds of dollar tent or something like that, you can spend a couple bucks on a driver to try it. And if it's not your thing, it's not your thing. So do you find that is at least a better ⁓ thing for people to get into because it the the price is so small? speaker-1: Yeah, I think it's a good way to get people engaged and try the product. I mean, in retail, you'll find the find a full shot of espresso or one of our drivers for three bucks. ⁓ so it's a low entry ⁓ sample to really get one and try it. and ⁓ it also allows us to kind of go to a lot of shows and sample product and give it to people. ⁓ so we can cut it up into smaller pieces and you can kind of get the full experience before. Maybe committing that, you know, a few bucks in the morning because you might be replacing ultimately ⁓ you know, a energy drink or ⁓ maybe a Zin or a caffeine pouch or something, right? So you are kind of replacing one of those. and ⁓ yeah, it's it's a tough ritual to break, but whenever people do try it, they they typically fall in love. speaker-0: Yeah. 'Cause I know like I was I was at the show, just the show is referenced. I'd stop by, grabbed a few, but then I also kinda like that, you know, that like I have I have green tea right now, but I already had like a cup of coffee this morning. So Yeah. I gotta watch my caffeine intake. But like, you know that repetitiveness and that that like addictiveness of that. But it doesn't that doesn't mean 'cause I feel like some people think, ⁓ this is supposed to replace my coffee but It's not necessarily a replacement, right? It's like it's like an addition to or in in a hurry. I know it's a lot of the stuff that you market towards is when you just don't have the time. Like you said, like I just run out the door, I need to get that. I don't have time to do a pour over or whatever. I don't you know, you're going fishing and you need something while you're on the river at five o'clock in the morning, right? speaker-1: Exactly. So like that's one of the things that I lead with is like we're not a coffee replacement. ⁓ for me, coffee is like a very ritualistic experience every morning. ⁓ I have an espresso machine, I make my espresso. Like that's that's I'm not gonna replace that with the dry brew. Some people might, that's fantastic. ⁓ but like it's it's not gonna work for me. and ⁓ the for me the the main use case actually at least initially was cycling. So ⁓ I do some long distance cycling and you need caffeine, you need energy. So yes, like you'll have some goose ⁓ with you for some carbs, but you want that caffeine and the caffeinated goose and gels are are in my opinion bitter and yeah not dialed in yet. So for me I'll have those for the for the carbs and then I'll have a dry brew while I'm cycling and it's just the best, just the best like on the go experience. ⁓ For your coffee and caffeine. speaker-0: Yeah. So since you kinda made it, you know, at least for you know, a lot of feel like a lot of people make a product and they go, ⁓ it's for this market and then you find out, ⁓ it's actually really taking off. And do you find that you were like, Hey, it's for cycling? And next thing you know, way more hikers or trail runners or you know, f who know like truckers, you know, who what yeah what have you found are like some crazy unique kind of kind like we've had some speaker-1: Yeah. We've had some pretty insane ⁓ drivers been to some pretty insane places. ⁓ we ⁓ we don't know for certain, but we're pretty sure that an aerospace company brought out of space. ⁓ I do know that ⁓ the US Antarctic research team, ⁓ they brought it down to Antarctica. ⁓ we have some doctors without borders. We'll take it on trips with them where they're in a place where they don't have access to abundant clean water, but they still love their coffee. They're from, you know, the the States. So they want their coffee experience. So they'll bring us with them. And then ⁓ a lot of firefighters actually is a great use case for us where they're, you know, they're hanging out at the firehouse and all of a sudden they have to rush out and go. Like I've gotten pictures of of firefighters in the truck holding a mug. And I'm like, I'm like, we can solve that problem. Right. Like there's that Like urgency on the on the go use case where it does just make sense. and ⁓ yeah, those are just some extreme cases. ⁓ yeah that that I can think about the top. speaker-0: Yeah. That's cool. I I guess like when you were creating the product and your your friend's dad was kind of creating it, what at what point did you finally go like how many renditions and and stuff did you go through before you were like, Wow, this I think the I think we've got it? Like what like was it just instantaneous or was it like this is gonna take a while? 'Cause I know you said it's only two years, you you know, so it's it seems like it would have been pretty quick, I guess I think. speaker-1: Yeah. So it took it took many years of like actual experiments to get to the point of a product that is delicious, chewy, and like and like ready to go. ⁓ in terms of our current like exact form factor, and really branding the product and saying, Hey, let's take this to market. This feels like a good time. ⁓ it's been August of twenty twenty four. Okay. ⁓ and at that point too, it was basically a prototype product, right? Like we had to find out how do we produce this at scale. ⁓ you know, what are what are gonna be barriers for scale, ⁓ outside of production, whether it's gonna be distribution or package supplying, everything like that. So ⁓ really it's been two years of looking at it as a business and not just like a a a hobby product. speaker-0: So what were those barriers that you found were the hardest ones, the barriers of entry? speaker-1: ⁓ I mean, the first one was like finding a a production space, right? Like actually like learning, okay, how do you make a food product? Like what certifications do I need? Like what does this look like? And can I just make something in my kitchen and then sell it into the market? Like a lot of people like when you have an idea, there's just so many, so many small barriers that'll just end up being roadblocks where people go. I I'm just I I don't want that hassle. ⁓ so I mean that was like quite quite literally the first one. ⁓ and ⁓ one of our co founders is in Rhode Island. ⁓ so through just and basically in Rhode Island, I think everybody knows each other from one or two degrees separation. It's a small estate and it's just you'll find somebody that knows somebody pretty quickly. ⁓ we got in touch with ⁓ a a food startup accelerator, basically. So they helped us like learn all of that process. ⁓ this place called Hope and Maine, and they're they're great. So ⁓ so they helped us really from the beginning professionalize a food business. speaker-0: ⁓ I I always hear that from when we have like different food companies on. It's like as soon as you start putting something in somebody's body, it's like a whole other can of worms that you kinda open up. So I've like told myself if I ever create something, I don't think it'll ever be food related at all. You know, and then especially when you have caffeine in it too, it's like, ⁓ my gosh, you gotta probably have all kinds of like, okay, I gotta be careful, you know, you're not gonna come up like a four hundred milligram dry brew. ⁓ I actually saw one one of the guys from the trade show, right from OR, I saw him do a reel where he was like, I'm gonna go around and see how many companies I can see and he'd like had stacked like a whole bunch of dry brew and took it. I don't know how Yeah. I'll I'll send it to you. And that's such a I had I I had met him when we were going to ⁓ one of the excursions the day before and I saw his reel and I was like, Man, I wonder if he actually ate that or if he like spit it out afterwards because it was probably like Five or six of them. ⁓ and stuff like that. speaker-1: It's tasty, man. speaker-0: I know before we got on. Yeah. Before we got on, I was I was asking you because I've seen reels that you guys do where you guys package ⁓ dry brew and stuff like that. And so you know, I think one of the barriers of entry that you mentioned was like even packaging, right? Because you have there are like single packaged ⁓ goods. And so I've seen you guys packing them yourselves. I know you guys are in Target and some other pretty big box, large big box stores, and then you know. gas stations and other ⁓ small retail. But how was that and I guess I already know the answer because you told me previous, but like packing that first order for Target, knowing that the barrier entry for, you know, another thing is packaging, you guys were hand packing those, right? speaker-1: Yeah, we were we handpacked every unit that went out to Target initially, ⁓ which was ⁓ a pretty outstanding order for us. It was a hundred thousand units that we that we individually took these these Tetsy rolls basically and put them in a pouch, ⁓ labeled them with the appropriate ⁓ expiration date, batch number, and sealed them. So yeah. That alone is three step process for a hundred thousand units. ⁓ so yeah, we ⁓ we it's actually kind of funny because we had already ordered an automatic pouch and machine that was supposed to arrive about a month before our target ⁓ production run. And it was delayed about two months. So it didn't arrive till a month after we had fulfilled the order. And I was just I was scratching my head. I was like, How are we going to possibly do this? And ⁓ w it was a it was an all hands on deck effort. We're a small team, right? So we have ⁓ four full time employees and twenty five thousand units each is just not possible in a crunch timeline. So it was just a ⁓ friends and family getting together, following all the food safety precautions, of course. Yeah. Movies on in the background and just pouching throughout the night. So we got it done and Now we're at a point where we're we're we are more scaled where orders from airlines or the military will come in and we'll be able to pouch them much yeah more efficiently. ⁓ from a cost perspective and time. So so yeah, it's been ⁓ it's been quite the journey just on the operations side alone. speaker-0: I mean, I I still like I I feel like people see a product, they see a company and they go, ⁓ they've got not saying you don't have all your ducks in a row, but they're like, ⁓ they must have A, B, C, D, E, you know, but like you're going like A, F, Z, back to H, like you're you know, 'cause you just have to work with it as you grow and as you scale. And as I I I'd heard some people over the last month kind of talking about why doesn't this company have and your company's, you know, different ⁓ with your food product, but like, why don't they have this size or this thing for these types of people? But a lot of I don't think a lot of people realize that there's only so much that a small business can do before they can slowly start at scaling because then it c it's cost more. If I have to add now ⁓ triple extra small or you know quadruple extra large, now I'm having to carry that, you know, a huge inventory on something. And For you guys is you know, even I'm sure even adding a new flavor, it yeah adds a whole other can of worms now because now you've got that new flavor, you've got new packaging, you've got all these other things on top of the orders that you have. And it's great hearing your story too, because I feel like from when I first met you to now, like you guys have grown so much. ⁓ and that could just be me seeing it, but I I feel like you guys are growing like crazy. And every time I see you, you feel I feel like you've had like 10 dry brew. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: ⁓ in your system because you're just go go going. ⁓ so I guess my my next question is, you know, what's the journey look like in the next year for you guys? what is it that's the next scalable level for for you guys? What are you guys looking forward to in the future? speaker-1: Yeah. So so quite a few things on the docket. One initially is really ⁓ trying to build the relationships with our existing accounts and partners, right? So that's like key. Like we've scaled pretty rapidly to get to this point within really just one year. And we're in one thousand target stores. You know, we love to be in all two thousand. So for them, we're showing, you know, our ability to market ⁓ within their stores and successfully sell through. ⁓ and then also in we're in Sportsman's warehouse across the country as well. So ⁓ you know, working on the partnership with them, launching new skis with them ⁓ pretty soon, which we're excited about as well. ⁓ so that's like kind of step one is to make sure that we have our continued partners being our champions as we scale. ⁓ and then Same thing goes with our our creative partners. So like so online and our direct consumer presence is something that is really becoming a in the forefront for me. Where the first year and a half of the business, well, really the first year was, okay, John, like how can I produce this product at scale? So figuring out the operations and building some retail partnerships. And now it's more so, okay, we have production in place. We have some really strong retail partners. ⁓ It's almost backwards thinking, but like now our direct consumer presence needs to be bolstered and strengthened to ultimately support everything else that we're doing. ⁓ so a lot of my energy is now going towards brand, making sure that one, we have the right just content being produced to showcase the product, showcase the brand, showcase how active and outdoors the the the customers that use our product are. and ⁓ and then also you know, br with brand comes design. So does our pouch actu actually speak to the people buying the product? But does it also speak to someone that can see it in a Target or a Costco or on an airline when they know what it is when they just look at the pouch? So ⁓ there's a lot of a brand discovery that's been going on to make sure that that is that is appropriately shown in the pouch is alone. ⁓ so Yeah, many things that like people maybe from the outside, when you just kind of zoom in of like, ⁓ cool, like they're on the market, they have this pouch, they're in this retailer, like that doesn't necessarily mean that it's like an end state product. Yeah like ⁓ for this pouch alone right here, I think we've gone through seven different print iterations to get to this level. ⁓ this is already three prints behind. ⁓ we have ⁓ that are already on the market. So what I'm always iterating whenever I place a new order for pouches, there will be a change on that pouch. ⁓ so I'm eating a little bit of cost in terms of volume, but I'm able to learn and iterate much quicker than some other larger brands or people that are just trying to find like that one penny of margin savings when they're in that early stage. ⁓ I'm in the belief that it's more important to to iterate and learn with your customers in real time than it is to try to from day one be the most profitable. Yes, you need to make you need to have a profit, but sacrifice some of that to make sure that you're going to be able to be in the game for the long run is was is my mentality with it. speaker-0: Yeah. And where do you get that feedback from? Do you do you like straight up ask people or do people just message you every once in a while saying something, or how does that go? speaker-1: We do get a lot of inbound. ⁓ people have strong opinions, ⁓ which is so and some people really like to be heard about them and we listen and respond to all of them. So anybody listening, if you have strong opinions, please just DM us or email. Anything's fine. ⁓ But we ⁓ I I share it with a close group of friends and other founders of CPG products. and really just speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: in like an informal way, have like a I don't know, a design board, right? It's so super informal. But that's ultimately what I do is is I will just ship it to people and get their honest feedback. Sometimes I get two successful people in their own rights with very different opinions and now I need to figure out, you know, okay, how do I distill something in the middle? Or is one right and the other's wrong? So, ⁓ Yeah, there's for me it's it's just giving it to as many people and asking for direct feedback. speaker-0: Yeah. No, that I mean that that's always good to see like w I g I guess it's hard to make that change, but I think it's great when people do make small changes and everything else in their product instead of just sitting on it and saying, Okay, this is it. You know, I think at some point you go, Okay, we got it. Now it's small tweaks as opposed to making massive tweaks. I think when someone makes like let's say a a a hiking bag, right? There can be a a lot of major tweaks that can happen because you might be the only one testing it on your own body and there's so many body types. Right. Yeah. So but you once you get it dialed in, now you're just saying, okay, I'm gonna change a loop on it or something like that as you get that feedback from people. ⁓ do you find that people I I know for me, when I hit the trail and I have drive roo, because ⁓ I do all that ultralight backpacking, I'll I'll take the packs out. So I have a lot of singles, but I know you have ⁓ some multi packs and stuff like that as well. Right. But I ⁓ I take all the singles out. And I've put them in a Ziploc bag so on trail I don't have a bunch of packaging for me to to take back. what do you find? Like, are you looking at other ways of packaging it too? Like when you get that feedback, do you ever give feedback? Because I I know the environmental side of people says, you know, it it's a single pack usage. You know, do you do you ever think about that side of things? And and I'm sure you're s always thinking of, hey, how can we package this differently in the future? Kind of like you said, you're already three iterations behind on Something else. For all I know, you could be, you know, patching it in like biodegradable feathers or something. I don't know. speaker-1: So ⁓ so yeah. So one, ⁓ we had a actually a few things with that. So one, we actually had a great conversation with a company at at ⁓ OR. ⁓ and they can help tip make our single use pouches fully recyclable because that's a big issue right now with food products, is the food safe lining on the inside is not recyclable. They actually they grind it up and they are able to then reuse it. So I'm Going to partner with them to make our pouches, individual pouches, actually fully recyclable, which is exciting for our current form factor. ⁓ and then just through feedback just like yours, ⁓ we're launching a few actual, a few different SKUs. So one is gonna be what we're calling unwrapped. So it's basically what you just described. So it's gonna be a a small bag with ⁓ five to ten. unwrapped dry brew in it so it's resealable and it's not have it's a it's not a single use pouch. It's five shots of espresso that are now in this solid form in a pouch. ⁓ yeah. So that's great for like the you know a weekender that doesn't want to have the individual units. ⁓ the shelf life goes down a little bit of course, but that's understood. ⁓ and then the ⁓ the other form factor which I'm very excited about is we have a new it's an espresso bean shaped mold. So we're actually molding the driver into small espresso beans where one of our double shots will actually turn into 10 mini espresso beans that you can just snack on. ⁓ that's cool. And that'll be in a ⁓ in a tin. So it'll be in like a survivalist type tin where you can reuse the tin afterwards for anything you would need it for. speaker-0: Is that it I think I saw it on your table at the show. Yeah. May maybe if that was it. That 'cause that's that's really, really cool. 'Cause I love the fact that you can like I can just snack on it. Cause sometimes I get it and I'm like, ⁓ I want more of that taste now. And then like, ⁓ if I just kind of nibbled on it little bit more, but now I can just kind of it's almost like the to share. Like you open it like I can share. speaker-1: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Because then that's all that's all feedback. So like some people they just say, Hey, I'm driving. I just want to pop this and I'm I just want the energy. And then some people like, hey, like actually this snack ability is really important to me. and you know, s they people will chop it up and then like one of our regular units, put it into a trail mix for something when they're on the go. Yeah. ⁓ or they'll just snack on it like we're trying to So we're just trying to take that feedback and actually make a product around it. speaker-0: I'm not sure if it was you or someone I had talked to that they cut it up into small pieces and put it in trail mix. speaker-1: I've done that. I I love it. It's awesome. speaker-0: So I keep saying I'm gonna do it and then when I get the trail, I'm like, ⁓ I forgot to do it. So I have a I know I another trip coming up and I have also like a ultra marathon with some small ultra ⁓ colour that I think I'm gonna do that on. Okay, I I wanna shift real quick. and just talk about the the downsides to going into retail. Not not that there's too many downsides, but there can be. I know we'd speaker-1: Gears. speaker-0: You kinda alluded to it a little bit. It's like, ⁓ my God, like with packaging, right? You ran into probably got the order. ⁓ I'm assuming, but you probably got the order and you're like, okay, now we need to pack this because now we have to be it's like when you listen to Shark Tank, they're like, Well, we wanna do these orders, but we can't take the order because if we do, then how are we gonna pack something or how are we gonna produce a certain amount of it and stuff like that? What are some kind of downfalls for people who are like listening who have their product and they're like they super want to get into retail. ⁓ but then it might be a better idea for them to kind of stay mom and pop or just stay ⁓ like e-com and stuff like that. speaker-1: Yeah. ⁓ my my main piece of advice is to make sure that the operations of the business are ready to scale into it. ⁓ let's say you land ⁓ an REI as an account and you can fulfill that first order. And, you know, if everything goes to plan, velocities are there, it sells through quickly. That first order is gonna be a second, a third, a fourth on repeat. And I'm sure you have other businesses or other small accounts that you're servicing. online customers. So you kind of you need to have the operations prepared for the best case scenario. Yeah. ⁓ because you really have that one shot with that retailer. If they are if if they say, Hey, we need this reorder, you're not ready to fulfill it. ⁓ it's gonna be very tough to rebuild the trust and the relationship with them. So so that's I mean my one advice is to just make sure that the operations are there. ⁓ And then too, it's it's really about the partnership and the relationship with that account. Like that's so important because you're gonna be getting a lot of feedback from that individual that's ultimately the buyer. And if you know, they're coming to you with the wisdom of their thousands or millions of people that go shop in their store, like they have a lot of that data. So they know so they're one person, but they're really representing A massive audience. So ⁓ it's important to have a good relationship with them. And then I even for some design changes, depending ⁓ who it is or what account, but I'll I'll talk to the buyer and say, Hey, what do you think of this? Do you think this is gonna be better for your audience? Yeah. ⁓ like with Sportsman's Warehouse, we're launching a new SKU with them that we they specifically asked us, Hey, I think if you did X, Y, and Z, it's gonna resonate with our audience better. So I was like, Great, like. went out and we you know, redesigns a multi-pack pouch and we're we're shipping it out with them. So ⁓ so it really does come down to making sure you're just able to scale in the best case scenario, but also, you know, have those conversations with with those accounts. speaker-0: Yeah. I I I like what you had said a lot earlier like earlier on where you the first thing you wanted to do in the future is kind of bet keep that relationship good with the people that you already have. Yeah. You know, that old ad is where it's like ten times harder to get a new client than it is to keep an old one. Yeah. And when you when you keep that relationship going, you're gonna further it. I think a lot of people wanna grow too quickly too fast and then they burn a lot of bridges with ⁓ the other companies that They were like, hey, what about like I always think back to like ⁓ ATT, right? I er every time I go to get a new phone, I'm like, if I was a new customer, right, they'll give me a free phone and everything else. But I've been with ATT for 20 years and they're gonna make me buy a brand new phone. And I'm like, ⁓ yeah, maybe I'll just switch to T Mobile, because now T Mobile's gonna give me a new phone, right? And it's like if you guys would just and then I don't I shouldn't have to call and complain and complain on the phone. in order to get that, it should be ⁓ not saying they have to just give me anything, but there should be a little bit of like a little bit of brand loyalty there. I I would I think this is I would hope so. Yeah. You know? And the fact that you're you're looking at it and going, Okay, I I need to pivot on a few things. And and the good thing is I know you listen to not just the big buyers that you have, but, you know, these small mom and pop ⁓ retail locations. You know, you gotta take you take that input in just as speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: just as much because they have closer relationships with others, but then you've got that amazing data set with large retailers that you just can't take for granted because a lot of times people don't realize, like you just said, ⁓ yeah, there's millions of people that they basically represent. And you're like, okay, I need to I need to listen to this if I want to keep that relationship good and and grow. So I think that like that's speaker-1: Totally. Some of our strongest relationships are with our independent accounts. Like we're part of the the grassroots outdoor alliance. And we go to we went to their show this year for the first time. And ⁓ we have some accounts there that we've learned like the most critical piece for our product through ⁓ a direct relationship there. And they said, John, like whenever we sample your product, people love it. And they'll buy a few right there and then. Yeah. ⁓ so what they were doing was they would open up some of the image where they purchased, they would cut some of it up, and then they would sample it at the front desk. And it would sell through. So I'm like, okay, that's that's awesome feedback. And like something that only an independent account that cares about us and the product would share and do with the brand. ⁓ so then I take that and like, okay, well, how do we actually offer this to our accounts because that's something that, you know, it's very experiential, like we talked about in the beginning. ⁓ so how do we offer that experience for people in retail? ⁓ and really that's through the independent accounts ⁓ that we that we manage and have relationships with. So part of the idea with our espresso beans is actually we're going to be giving those to all of our accounts ⁓ and they'll be sampling those so you can try The little stress would be next time you're in ⁓ any of our, you know, independent stores. speaker-0: Yeah. So I guess I w the question I want to ask too is I when I went and saw it at Target, when I knew you got the Target account and stuff like that, I went to go get coffee and I was in the coffee, I was like, wait a second, and I looked and then across from the coffee and Target, and at least my Target was Drybrew. And ⁓ when you're talking about like people understanding what it is and stuff like that, do you find like some of the feedback is unless I knew what it is, I might not necessarily buy it just because I can't see it. Does that does that make sense? speaker-1: Yeah, totally. That's that's a big part of it. Like so Target is a great example of you know, an e ⁓ it's a ⁓ the the largest mass retailer next to Walmart in the US. And people are coming in there with their specific products that they like that they're gonna be buying. So yeah, we have to find a way to, you know, stand off the shelf to break that ritual of what they're they came in there for. And Through a lot of feedback that we've received, like our pouch, it stands out because of the coloring, but there needs to be some more word like clearer word marks on it that describe ready to eat coffee or coffee in a bite in much larger fonts. And then also show the product or something very similar to the product on the pouch. ⁓ to have that visual cue of ⁓ it's a chewable piece of coffee or tatsiro looking thing. ⁓ like if you go in the granola section, almost every granola bag has a clear window. Yeah. But you know what granola looks like, you know what it is. But people they want to see, ⁓ is it like the clusters that I like or is it the loose leaf almost oatmeal style that I like? Yeah. It's very important to to understand right away, ⁓ just visually what it is. speaker-0: Yeah. No, that's that's so interesting. I packaging is such a a huge part when you're creating something that I don't think a lot of people even think about. I've done a photo shoot for a company ⁓ one time and they have their product in Dicks, Academy, Costco, REI, you you name it and everything else. But every we had to do different photos for each package because Walmart our Costco wants it very clean and clear and everything else. It doesn't want it really artsy fartsy. And then, you know, like REI wants it more outdoorsy and and I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, so my photo shoot was just all over the place. We'd be like shooting it like this. And okay, now I've got to frame it like this, or I've got to make it more clean for Costco versus REI. I can have a bunch of crap all around the campsite because it doesn't matter to them as long as the product looks like it's in use and stuff. So do you think do you run into that as you talk to retailers that they want it specifically or most people like, hey, I'll take it like this and then later on they give you feedback. speaker-1: we when it comes to the like the artwork, we haven't really received that feedback yet. ⁓ the the as in like the the maybe marketing collateral that we're supporting. Yeah. ⁓ the the pouch, ⁓ we the only one that really said that directly was Sportsman's Warehouse. Yeah. Where they're like, Hey, we love this this modern look that you have, but ⁓ Let's find a way to have it speak to our customers more. so so that's what we did ultimately is is we everything's in camo. It's like it's a it's a it it's a blue digital camo and it looks cool. So no, you're spot on. That's exactly speaker-0: I was just joking. I think what it is. See, right? ⁓ speaker-1: So like we have like a really cool design that we've now like like worked with them, worked with the graphic designer on and we'll be launching it with a lot of ⁓ you know, within sportsmans and a lot of other ⁓ just content creators at the same time. So so yeah, that's you know, that's an example of us taking feedback from from a retailer on design and rolling that back into like making sure that the audiences, the the customers that are buying it. Understand what it speaker-0: Yeah. No, that's cool. Wow. ⁓ all right. My last question before we kind of go into a rapid fire round a little bit, ⁓ is and I didn't ask this at the beginning, but I I totally have to ask it 'cause I always love hearing like what's a one big ⁓ crap moment since you've been running this business that maybe you guys have kind of ran into that you're like, ⁓ my gosh, never again or I'll learn I learned my lesson this time. speaker-1: Yeah. I mean, we we really touched on it earlier. It was it was the target order where we had our product our pouching machine was supposed to arrive for this order. Yeah. We revamped the numbers. We would have the full or the full run would have been done in three shifts. So essentially three days or a day and a half just straight through. Not not an issue whatsoever. And ⁓ It didn't arrive. So that was the biggest, like, ⁓ my God, like we landed this target deal, we're about to ship it out, and we have to pack this by hand. It just seemed like a task that wasn't humanly possible. Yeah. ⁓ we started doing the math and we're just like, okay, if there's 10 of us, it's gonna be what we have to do, like a thousand each, and it takes us like I don't know what it was, it's like 10 units. a minute if we're really, really quick. And we're just like, we're we're done. ⁓ but ⁓ but no we we got it together and we just like we just persevered through. We just didn't really sleep much. ⁓ but we we got it we got it done. ⁓ so so that was really that that biggest like like you know ⁓ growing pain ultimately is what it turned into. But if we didn't get that done right, it it would have been devastating to the business's growth. speaker-0: And I feel like too, like when you have these crazy things happen, it's actually good for you. It builds ⁓ my dad always says right, it's built character or whatever. But really, you're just like you you're learning that lesson. And then you have a good story of saying, like, I I wasn't just making them and just popping it out and rolling in the dough or anything like that. I was actually grinding. I literally ⁓ went to a friend's house and we had a big long conversation about ⁓ their company that they started. And ⁓ I was like, hey, like You're gonna have not that you have to have it, but I think a lot of people are gonna have to have a grind that they gotta go through. And it's like that whole diamond and the whole pressure thing that just builds that diamond. It's the same thing. You're gonna go through that grind, but then in the end you're gonna come out and go, ⁓ I know that I'm better because of it. And and ⁓ I think that's great. speaker-1: Yeah. I for us it's it's never it hasn't been this consistent linear growth curve. It's been very lockstep where it's you know, it might feel like, ⁓ we're not growing and all of a sudden there's an explosive moment of growth. And then that becomes the new normal. And we're now we're comfortable operating at that level. Yeah. And then we're there for a bit and then ⁓ my God, there's another massive thing. So it it's not this just immediate, you know, satisfaction of great, we're growing. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Ten X year over year. This is amazing. It's just like it's very ⁓ I mean it's you know, it's early days of ⁓ starting a business, it's very ups and downs and it's it takes a lot on you. speaker-0: That's cool. Well, at you have a a good product that keeps you going. Yeah. In the grind. So helps. And you have a coffee company and you're grinding and you grind coffee. My actually my friend, their company is coffee related. It's ⁓ coffee candles and stuff. And I said, You gotta have that grind. And then I was like, I said the same joke. So I mean it's just a stupid joke, I'm sure. I love it. ⁓ awesome. Well, ⁓ speaker-1: That helps. speaker-0: If people are looking for dry brew, if ⁓ if retailers or you know just outdoor enthusiasts or people are are looking to to find dry brew, where can they where can they find you? Other than Target. speaker-1: Target's a big one. ⁓ if you need a sports and warehouse, you can find this in there as well. ⁓ we're in a lot of convenience stores in the Northeast. and we're starting to scale into a lot of corporate offices as well. So so yeah, you'll probably start seeing us at if you work in an office, hopefully you'll see driver there pretty soon. speaker-0: Awesome. And then I guess drybrew.com if they wanted to speaker-1: Driver dot com, ⁓ Amazon as as well. Okay. ⁓ those are two great places to find it. speaker-0: Awesome. Well thank you. I guess we're just gonna go into a quick lightning round to get to know you a little bit more. ⁓ and then ⁓ we'll end it so you can go and start packing more stuff but with a machine with a machine this time. all right, so first question I'd like to ask people is what's your favorite national park? speaker-1: ⁓ Yosemite. speaker-0: week. That's my number that used to be number one, now it's number two, just out to ⁓ Grand Canyon. ⁓ speaker-1: Haven't been there yet, that's I'm excited for that trip. speaker-0: ⁓ all right, so I guess this answered my question, but mountains, desert or coast? speaker-1: ⁓ you know, it's tricky. ⁓ I do I coast. Yeah. I at the end of the day, I you know, I'm born in New Jersey and yeah, live in California. I love the coast. speaker-0: That's cool. I actually have a wedding I'm shooting in New Jersey next month. ⁓ but it's like usually when I go to New York, New Jersey area, I'm shooting in New York for people. But this one's like at some elaborate house by a lake and everything, way out east of east of New Jersey. So I I can't wait to see what it looks like. But ⁓ all right, next question is if you could collab with any brand, who would it be and why? speaker-1: It's a great question. ⁓ I think I would ⁓ I think I would say Starbucks. I think a a Starbucks coffee chew and bring that to the world. speaker-0: Yeah. I think that would be that was my number like usually I don't know a brand. When I ask that question, I'm like, who would they collab with? I'm like, if he doesn't say Starbucks, like I don't know. I don't know what he would say. ⁓ all right, what's ⁓ what's your favorite trail snack or maybe your snack when you're out biking? speaker-1: I'm gonna say dry brew. ⁓ if it's if it's not gonna be my coffee snack, ⁓ then peanut butter and jelly. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And what's your least favorite snack? speaker-1: Least favorite snack. ⁓ that's a that's a tough question. I'm I'm really I'm a snack person, so I I really snack on everything. ⁓ speaker-0: One that just makes you gag when you even think about it. Mine's mine's cucumbers are raw carrots, so speaker-1: Yeah. I'm gonna look I'll go with celery. It's celery. Yeah. It's just too boring. It's just there's not enough to it. speaker-0: Unless it's ants on a log. what's the what's the dumbest thing you've ever forgotten on a trip? speaker-1: ⁓ my passport. I was going abroad and I was at the airport and my passport was expired. So ⁓ that's that's by far the dumbest thing. Yeah. speaker-0: Did you were you able to get it all figured out or did you just not go on the trip? speaker-1: ⁓ I was actually able to get a renewal the next day, so I was just delayed a day, which was cool. But ⁓ that is by far the dumbest thing I've forgotten. speaker-0: Yeah. I you know, I don't now that you said the passport thing, I think the whole if your passport expires within six months, then yeah you can't use it. I don't understand. Then why put an expiration date on it to begin with? speaker-1: That's a good question. Mine was just straight up expired. I wasn't even in the I wasn't even in that window to play for it. I was just like a year and a half late. speaker-0: I thought it was gonna be within that window because I've had it where I've gone I went to another country and it was it expired in three months and I was there for a week and I w I was somewhere I was in New Delhi and I was like, Yeah, but it expires in three months, so what does it matter? I'm only here for a week. But we had I was in the airport for like hours trying to figure it out. They they let me through. ⁓ all right, what's the biggest ⁓ spend ⁓ biggest thing you've ever purchased for your business? I'm assuming it's probably that packing machine, but speaker-1: Yeah, for the business packaging machine. Yeah, for sure. speaker-0: I don't people understand how much those those can run. speaker-1: Yeah, it could have been like a small house. Yeah. Probably. But ⁓ instead we're packaging driver with it, so speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. All right. And then last question is ⁓ what's one word your team would use to describe you? speaker-1: ⁓ it's a question. Probably energetic. I think when we go to these events, it's just nonstop. We're on the go. So ⁓ endurance. Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah, one those two. Yeah. Do you go to quite a few trade shows ⁓ every year? I'm assuming like even probably go to r shows like races. I know UT ⁓ B's going on this week. ⁓ so speaker-1: Yeah, we do a lot of shows. We like we're we do the overland expos. ⁓ those are great for spreading the product. ⁓ yeah, we've done outdoor retailer, switchback. Yeah. ⁓ we go to the surf expo, so we'll be there in Or Orlando. and ⁓ there's an airline show coming up in two weeks, so we're pretty much everywhere. speaker-0: Okay. There's one here in Atlanta. Shoot, what's it called? The Dallas Safari Club. It's like a Okay. It's a huge hunting expo. But it's for all the guys who they literally just sit out there for hours and hours and hours and try to, you know, bag a deer or they go if they say it's the smallest ⁓ what do they call it? The smallest gathering of billionaires or the quietest, smallest gathering of billionaires in the world. 'Cause all these all these people just come and they all go on these safaris to bag a elephant or something like that. And it's all legal stuff and ⁓ different places. But you know, you're spending a hundred thousand dollars on a safari or ten thousand dollars of safari and and all these different things. And so I went and my wife and I were were you would d everybody's so unassumingly wealthy that it was just I was like, ⁓ I feel wealthy just by walking around going up people probably think we're we are loaded. So But ⁓ check it out 'cause it's a it's a neat show. It's hu it's hu it's a huge show. ⁓ but yeah, thank you so much. I mean I I appreciate you kind of being open and telling everybody about dry brew and everybody thank you so much for listening. ⁓ if please check out dry brew, try them out. You're not gonna be disappointed. ⁓ you know, there's a lot of snacks that I try out there that I'm like, I don't know, but I legit like even my small group of ⁓ eight guys that we do trail running on Saturday mornings, ⁓ I have a new group of guys this Saturday and I have ⁓ a bunch of dry broom giving them ⁓ for the first day to kind of get ⁓ pepped up for the first run. So ⁓ I appreciate it, John. Thank you so much and I look forward to chatting ⁓ and seeing you on trail. ⁓