Latest / Living Uncertain an OCD Podcast / How we learned to tell check-ins from real conversations (OCD)(Episode 35)
Transcript
- Opening: Hello, and welcome to the podcast, Living Uncertain. This podcast is dedicated to obsessive compulsive disorder, OCD, and the primary treatment, exposure response prevention, ERP. OCD comes in many forms, such as contamination, perfectionism, checking, harm, superstitious, religious or moral, sexual orientation, and or relationship. ERP is the gold standard to treating OCD. and it focuses on deliberately confronting fears, the exposure, while refraining from compulsive rituals, the response prevention. With repeated exposures and without engaging in compulsions, we learn to tolerate anxiety and break the cycle of intrusive thoughts. We are a married couple that have faced both the challenges of OCD and the incredible healing that ERP can provide to your marriage, family, and your home. As a person who lives with OCD, I am much more than this diagnosis. We all can be. Marc & Stacee: Hi y'all, I'm Stacy. And along with my husband Mark, we want to thank you for living uncertain with us again. Welcome to episode 35 of our podcast, where as you all know by now, we talk all things OCD and ERP related. We've been on quite a journey, especially over the last 18 months or so. And we've used this podcast as a way to provide support in this OCD community and to really share our story and our journey in. And what has worked and what hasn't, and how it has just changed our life, our marriage, our relationship with our kids, everything for the better. And we like to keep things as raw and authentic as possible. And many of the episodes we've done talk about the more challenging side of having OCD, the more challenging side of loving someone with OCD and what that looks like. Welcome everybody. Today I think we want to talk about how we've had to refrain our conversations. Yes. Absolutely. The other night we were sitting on the the couch and we were just having a conversation. And many times when we we we start to have a conversation, you know, it could, you know. When questions come from Stacey as far as a pickup part of the conversation, they can come across as check-ins. No. I've never been known to do that. No, never. Never. And and with that, you know, my response as the spouse with the person that, you know, is dealing with the person with OCD is is my my go to response is I don't know. And I'm not sure. Or I'm not sure. And and that can be a very difficult way to have a conversation. You can see how that can start up really quick and end really quick. It does, but in the way of a conversation where I'm trying to seek a reassurance or get it or get or check in in some form or fashion, oftentimes like I have with Mark over the years of our marriage, and as you all know, having listened to us by now, we've been married for over 20 years. a lot of my questions come in the way that I need. A check-in, or I'll repeat questions because I need reassurance. And so for many, many years, as Mark and I have learned and now have had to unlearn, he has always engaged those questions. Which has continued the conversation. Correct. After the question has been asked. Yes. And I have fed the question at hand. And in doing so, he feeds my compulsions. And then we end up having a full-on conversation, which I'm just feeding that OCD beast. Correct. Yes. That is exactly it. Which is why, in order to interrupt the compulsion of my needing to check in or having a reassurance, his response now becomes, I don't know, or I'm not sure, or maybe, or anything else that would represent my needing to sit in discomfort, uncertainty, not being in control. All of those things that we who have OCD know are very challenging things for us to do. But then what happens is I let my anxiety rise because he's interrupted the compulsion. He's given me an exposure, essentially, to living uncertain, if you will. And then with that, I'm able to bring that anxiety down and recognize that I'm okay without engaging in the compulsion. But what that means now, and not only just for our conversations and for the way that I framework questions to him, but other things in our life that have come up. Yeah. In terms of what do I enjoy doing versus what could be known or what could be considered a compulsion? And how do he and I learn how to tell the difference? Because it gets very challenging sometimes to do that. No. They're they live in in the area sometimes of gray, mucky gray. And when I see you doing something, I might step back and go, Well, is that O C D or is that just her trying to have a little fun. Enjoy myself. Have little fun. And we'll explain what that means. Because early, early on in our podcast time, we did a an episode around intention. And I think that kind of is worthy of talking about again in in this episode because it's come up for us recently again. What is my intention behind what I'm doing? Whether it's asking Mark a question, whether it's this is gonna hurt, y'all. It's gonna hurt. This one's gonna hurt. Whether it's organizing or cleaning something in my home, redecorating something in my home, where is it? Where's the intention? Is the intention I'm doing this because I feel out of control? I feel uncomfortable. I feel the need to take something back because my OCD is telling me that something's not right. Did I feel like something wasn't done just right? And so I need to go either ask Mark a question for reassurance or go, I don't know, empty out my pantry and reorganize it at 10 o'clock on a Thursday night. And I and I don't know if What the intention behind it is. Not always. And just by the way, just so our therapist out there knows, I did not empty out my pantry on a Thursday night at 10 PM. No. Just so you know, I didn't do that. But that's one of the areas where I have to really judge my intention because cleaning and organizing can be an issue for me in that it can present as compulsions, but I also really love it. I love organizing. I love home decor. I love kind of Pitter pattering around my house and changing things up and doing things to it. And so it brings me joy, it brings me fun. And I don't want to give that up. So now Mark and I are to this point where it's, well, what's your intention behind wanting to get rid of this item in our home? What is your intention behind wanting to organize the pantry now? What is your intention behind reorg or redecorating that corner of the kitchen? I don't know how many times. Gosh. Okay, it's been a few lately. All right, y'all. It's been a few. I'm gonna admit it. It's fine. It's it's fine. I'm gonna admit it right now. It's been a few. In my head, it's been fun and it's been enjoyable. I also know that as you all know because we've talked about this, we are two Gen X parents raising two Gen Z teenagers, and we are undergoing a lot of life changes right now. And so with all of those life changes comes. Uncertainty and discomfort and things kind of being out of control. And so OCD often tells me I need to do something to get back that control. And usually I'm there to help you, but yeah. Because of my eye situation, I'm I've been out I'm doing it without him seeing y'all. yeah. Yeah, I'm he can't see half the kitchen right now, so he doesn't know. But I'm I'm out of the game, kind of. Kind of. You know, there I have my good weeks and I have my bad weeks. We're gonna get this guy back to good, y'all. We are because this eye surgery stuff has really taken him out and it's it's hard to watch. And and he's been the rock and the strong force in our family for so many years. And so it's It's his turn to take a step back and for me to step up and take care of him and take care of things in our household. And I'm happy to do so doesn't come without its challenges because I live with OCD. but the other piece that we have to do, and it's what Mark kind of alluded to at the beginning, was we have to reframe our conversations. We have to determine now are you checking in with me, Stace? Are you just asking me a question because we're Going to have a conversation and you don't need to be reassured about anything right now. And I will say, and Mark, you tell me, this has been a really hard part for us to navigate. This is I think we have come to the realization that this has been probably one of the harder aspects now to navigate post ERP training. Yeah. Now that we've kind of gone through all the ERP and you know we we're kind of in a flow, it it's the one now that has kind of risen to the top where it's like how do we break through the conversations to make sure that they're not cringesworthy check-ins, or is it an actual conversation that you and I can have? And sometimes we misread each other. So I really legitimately in my head am thinking, I'm really honestly, earnestly asking a question because I'm interested in his perspective and I wanna open up a conversation about it. And then he will think in his head, this must be a check-in. So his automatic because in the past it has been a check in. Okay. All right. But it has, you know, sometimes the questions that we're asking now are questions that that were check ins before. Yeah. Now they're more conversational pieces because of the situation that we're in with our two teenage kids and Yes. And so sometimes his automatic response is, Well, I'm not sure. Well, that's I wasn't asking because I needed reassurance. And I felt in my heart I didn't know I didn't need that. But he wasn't so certain of that. And so he's going to his techniques that we've learned to get me out of my cycle of compulsions. And sometimes, well, you tell everyone how does that work out? It frustrates you and you get mad and you're like, But I'm not checking for, you know, I'm not here to check in on you. You check in and I really have a question about it. And then sometimes it can turn into a mini argument about. Just a very simple question, you know, do you like, you know, pink lemonade or regular lemonade? You know. What kind of question is that? Well, I know. We all know strawberry lemonade's the best lemonade. Everyone knows that pink lemonade is the best lemonade. But it it ca it goes for simple questions like to could be turned into more of a an argument. Yes. Just because I don't know if it's a Mm-hmm. And you don't you don't start your questions off with, by the way, this is not a check in because I'm very confident in But some of the times I feel like I need to. Yeah. And that's part of what we're learning. And to be honest, maybe I should be. Maybe. But we also talked about maybe just you fasing the question. We did. How did you ask me to phrase it now or how do you want me to phrase it? I don't even I think we were talking about the kids and Yeah. You you asked it more of a question versus a a statement type of thing. Which then to you meant I was checking in. Yeah, you were checking in about how the kids were doing or whatever, instead of you making a statement of Hey, this is what I think the kids are doing. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da. I'd like to have a dialogue about it. You know, something as as ridiculous as that sounds. And this is this is a nice part of the spouse's perspective that we offer and we want to to share as part of our journey with OCD and ERP treatment, because this kind of situation exact is exactly what we're talking about. Mark has been through every step of the way with me. He's been to every therapy session. He has navigated this with me. He's been able to share with our therapist things that I couldn't or wouldn't or didn't. He's been able to put into place in our home all of the the exposure mechanisms, all of the ways to interrupt my compulsions, and he has stayed consistent and he has stayed exhausted with me and committed to trying to get to get through this. And even now, today, we've been post R Intensive for a long time And we're still learning some of the challenges and how to to navigate them together. Some of the new ones that are that are coming up and and you know, you and I talk about it. You're always gonna have O C D it's how is it going to show itself for that day? Exactly. I know when we have more life stressors, sometimes that O C D will come out more. And I know I don't know what you're talking about. I yeah. I know right now we've had some more life stressors with the the kids and just work and my surgery and stuff. So I know that you know your O C D sometimes can creep up a lot bit a little bit more. Okay. So maybe I've organized the or redecorated the kitchen a little bit. Maybe it's a little bit O C D. Which I'm which by the way, I'm admitting right now here with you all tonight because I haven't given Mark that satisfaction yet. No, she just says I like I like playing with Chat GPT. And I do GPT. I do like playing with Chat GPT and he's helping me some great ideas. He's helping me organi or not organize necessarily, but he's helping me with some styling, right? It's It's like I have my very own Joanna Gaines or Shay McGee right there with me, helping me style the parts of my house because truly it's something I enjoy and I like doing. But I recognize that with that comes some accountability on my part when it becomes too much. If I do it once or twice and okay, I get something set up and it looks great, wonderful. Which I will tell you, everybody, I absolutely love my wife. Technology is not her hey now forte. Hey now. Come on. When it when it comes to technology in general. Just technology in general is not her technology. Technology in general. is not is not your forte. I know this. I know. You know, you you you have your Kindle, you have your iPad, you have your phone, you've got your computer. It's like you have all of these these devices. I do. And they all do what I like them to do and nothing more. You know, and everybody's sitting there going, my gosh, she could just go down to her phone and just use her phone to read and do everything she needs to do on her phone. No thanks. And I'm just now getting introduced to to AI, by the way, too. So she's a little bit behind the game in that stuff. So it's very So it's fun, right? Y'all can be on my side here. I feel it. I feel the energy. But but I I happened to tell her yesterday that when you take a picture of let's say the little vignette you've created. It can give you eight hundred different ways to style it. Which doesn't that sound like fun? Because I come on y'all who are are my fellow home decor enthusiasts. Let's be let's be real. We like to play around with vignettes. We like to restyle tables and countertops and come on now. Okay, now people with the spouses of somebody that has a that has O C D out there, how many times can that get out of hand? I don't know. I don't think ever. When when you are taking and and taking a picture of it and you're like moving it one little tiny plate, you know, that's what chat tells me to do. The picture said to move it eight centimeters to the right, and I'm gonna move it eight centimeters to the right. Hey, they know what they're doing. Listen. And and I will tell you, we have a table in our family room. That has a pot with some shrubbery that comes out of it. Shrubbery. What kind of greenery. Greenery. Thank you. Now I will tell you that that pot with the greenery in it has been in five different places in the past three weeks. You've sold me out now. One of the places was right in front of the TV. And she said, Well, whatever you want to take and watch TV, I'll come and move it on the floor. Did I not do that though? No, you didn't. I did. I did. No, you don't know how many times I didn't call you down to my gosh, please. But now it's back to the original location. And I decided that it looked better in its original location. You have to try some things out every now and then. Yeah, but not in front of the TV. Because that was the first thing I got home from work and I walked up, walked in the room and I went, What the hell? Okay, listen. So here's the deal. You have to determine what your intention is. When you have OCD, you have to know what your intention is behind whatever you might be doing that could be turned very easily into a compulsion. For me personally, it's checking in, asking questions that need where I need reassurance, or I do tend to clean and organize and flutter around my vignettes. Well, I I wonder if AI is Feeling your compulsions though. Don't say it. my gosh. See now it's okay. No to our therapist, please don't listen to him. Please don't listen to what he's saying right now. No, because this is something I've already considered because I'm an intelligent woman and I know what I'm doing. And I did think about it the other night when I did it and I went, you know, I'm probably just asking chat GPT for reassurance now. Is upsetting. Okay, fine. Yeah. But let's draw the line, right? Where's the intention that it's an imp it's a compulsion because you're feeling like you need to get back into control or you need to to engage in this or you're gonna feel like you're out of control. And where is it where you just are having fun? Where it's just because again, I like home decor. I like organizing my home. I I like I truly enjoy those things. They bring me happiness. And I don't want to give them up, but I also don't want to fall into the trap that they become a compulsion and they feed my intrusive thoughts and they feed my need to stay in this loop. Which I do know that when it turns into more of a compulsion is when I get home from work and there's a bag of stuff to give away to the Charlie Brown house. Yes. See? And we haven't had that. I I want you to look in the hallway right now and what's sitting on the ground that okay. It's one item that I'm switching out for something that's a little more modern for a new home decor decor aesthetic that I am looking to do in our home. We've also been in our home for quite a long time as well, y'all. And we haven't changed things up all that much, especially in recent time. And so I am looking to really lean into this specific decor style that I like. And I want I want to do it. So that's all I've got to say about that. But but you know, Jemmy is Jemmy. Right along with you. Really? Jemmy? Is that the best you can do? Is, you know, in the passenger seat with you going to Okay the store. All right, fine. AKA Amazon to find the thing that needs to go in the replacement of where the clock. Is. Did I and did I not find the perfect picture to put up there? Well, we don't know that yet because we haven't received it yet. We might get it and you go, that's a bunch of crap. And then I gotta bring it back. I won't. She says that now, everybody. I won't. And the intention is I really like it and I want to change it because the decor needs updating. So to me, truly, I have to find the line. And yes, I've probably crossed the line a few times in recent, which is why I'm admitting it. Today, because again, OCD has me today, tomorrow, next week, last year. It's had me since I was fifteen. And as long as I'm aware of it and I know how to operate around it so that it doesn't spiral me and loop and cause me to go into mental loops and ruminations and compulsions, then we have a win. But yes, it does still. Get me. But for that spouse that has lived with you for the past twenty-two years, twenty-three years. however long. Twenty-four years. Good gracious, twenty-two, twenty-three, what let's pick a number. I have to It's not that I have to take and babysit your O C D in a way. Wow. My gosh. But sometimes Okay, I'm gonna let you get away with that one because it's it's more or less a true statement, but it feels that way. Damn that you've gotta watch it to make sure that it doesn't do something it's not supposed to do. It's like my alter ego. You know, and my gosh. And our conversation starters and stuff like that. Like you and I are having to train ourselves to have those appropriate conversations. And it's so funny. We've been together for so long. And yet now after this many years together, we're retraining how to communicate with one another, which has not worked out every time for the better. But it's overall and in the end it is. We end up having good conversations once we get around it. Well, and the love we have and the trust we have for one another, and the fact that you and I both have really good senses of humor and can help each other through it and truly want to support each other through it and know that we want to support one another is imperative to continuing this journey. So remember that when you have to take care of me because of my eye. It's fine. It's that you love me. I know I do love you. I don't love taking out the trash. I don't love getting the trash can out of the garage and having to move it to the curb on trash. I don't like any of that. So if you can't do if you can't do that, we're gonna have to find some somebody to come in and help or whatever. That's fine. Like, you know, I just can it'll be fine. We'll find someone. Just kidding, I'll do it. Good gracious, don't like you have to do it forever, right? No, I don't. And you've been really It's only like a week your recovery's been pretty smooth, which thank goodness it has been. Okay. I know, we got one more. Yeah, we're almost done. Buckle up, buttercup. no, that's you. Buckle up. yeah, that's me. Never mind. Okay. I'm buckled. Cause I get to just lay face down and we're good to go. Right. That's right. Yeah. First three days, everybody. Doable. Next four days? Not so much. But this is the last one coming up. And so then we'll have our guy here ride his rein and back to good and all of that stuff. Hopefully. Might know. We will. So right in time for the holidays and Yeah, exactly. We'll be good to go. Right. So we urge you guys out there, think about your intention behind where the need for having a compulsion is. Because the intention is what's Separating, if you will, OCD from somewhat normal life. If I've said that correctly. That's how it feels to me. My intention separates like, I want to do this because it's fun and I've been meaning to kind of zhuzh this up a little bit versus I need to do this because right now I can't get out of a thought loop and this is the only thing that's gonna get me there. Or I'm feeling uncomfortable because I think I left something not just right. And so let me fix this and it will be better. Or we need to be on the same page with our kids. Let's take in, have a conversation about them. Or let me check in to make sure that you're on the same page that I'm on. But it's might not be. And if we're not on the same page, that's where I start to get uncomfortable. Yeah. Cause that means that something doesn't feel just right to me. And so that's when I will start to really seek the check ins and the reassurances. That's difficult. So stay tuned, everyone. Until we share another part of the ins and outs of communicating now that we've been through intensive ERP. And that we're starting to recognize that it is an area that we have to address. But we are. And focus on. Here we are. Check us out, man. We're not doing too bad. No. No. You know? I'm not doing too bad for a couple of middle-aged. You speak for yourself. No, I'm younger, remember? Not by my. That's enough. Well, we want to thank everybody for Living Uncertain with us. And if you want to join our show, please reach out, send us an email, and we'd be happy to get back with you and schedule a time to where you can come on. We already have a couple people lined up. So you don't always have to listen to Mark and Stacy every time. You know, but obviously we'll continue to sprinkle us throughout the the times. But we appreciate you listening to Living Uncertain. Thank you. We sure do. And we're so excited to continue sharing our journey and to really supporting this community of people out here with O C D and those who love someone with O C D. So thank you again. And it's also yes. It's October. And October is O C D awareness month. I just saw I actually just saw that on social media not that long ago. And we should know that, but once again you get going in your day to day lives and But we're still here. It's October. Yes. So we're sharing it and Spread the awareness. Spread the awareness of O C D. It can be so misunderstood. It can be so Misunderstood. Misjudged. Yeah. And it's very challenging. And it is very debilitating in all of its and any of its forms. And so yeah, help us spread the word about awareness and help us continue supporting those of you listening and and share with those of you who think it might be helpful to listen to. Thank you. Until next time, y'all. Thanks. Thank you for joining us on today's episode and Living Uncertain with us. We are not therapists and this podcast is intended to provide information and support. It should not replace traditional means of seeking help from a licensed mental health professional. If you like this episode or would like to hear more, please like, subscribe or share with someone you think may benefit. Here at Living Uncertain, we're building a community of support. If you and your significant other would like to share your story, we would love to have you on the podcast. Please click on the link in the episode description and fill out the interest form.