Latest / ShameOver - The Drink Less Podcast / The Identity Shift That Changes Your Relationship With Alcohol Forever Ft. Marrilee Burke
Transcript
- Erica And ShameOver: What a beautiful way to wrap up this conversation. I personally think one of the most powerful reminders from this episode is that your relationship with alcohol is not your identity. You're not bad because you over drink, especially once in a while, you're not broken, especially not if moderation feels hard. And you are definitely not doomed to stay stuck forever just because this has been your pattern up until now. Patterns can change. Welcome back to the final part of my conversation with licensed psychotherapist, Marylou Burke. you have made it through parts one and two already, then you know this conversation goes so far beyond alcohol. ⁓ you haven't, please feel free to go back and listen to them. Otherwise, just pick up here, totally fine. But I want you to know is drinking is rarely just about the drink. ⁓ It's our identity. It's about safety, stress, fun, control. Brains can rewire and stories can evolve. And honestly, that's what this entire journey is really about. Not perfection, not becoming a different person overnight, and definitely not white-knuckling your way through life. But instead, learning how to understand yourself more deeply so you can finally start responding to yourself with awareness instead of shame. connection, just the stories we tell ourselves about who we are and who we think we're allowed to become. And in today's episode, we're diving into one of the biggest things that I personally think keeps people stuck. And these are labels. have an addictive personality. I'm just the party girl. I'll never be someone who can only have one. this is just who I am. But what if those actually aren't facts? What if they're just stories that got repeated? I am so grateful to Marilee for this conversation and for the work she's doing in the world, helping people create healthier, more intentional relationships without call. If this three-part series resonated with you, I would love if you shared it with a friend, posted it on some social, whichever your favorite is, or left a review, because that is truly what helps me much in this space and what helps more people find this message and realize that they are not alone. so many times that they started feeling permanent. ⁓ We talk about why labels ⁓ can keep us trapped, ⁓ the with the all or nothing thinking, why progress more than perfection, how self-awareness and self-compassion are often the real catalyst for change. This episode is deep. reflective, empowering, and honestly such an important reminder that you are not stuck being the same version of yourself forever. let's get into this final part of the conversation. And if you're sitting there thinking, okay, I know I want things to change, but I don't know where to start. Please know you do not have to figure this out alone. There is support, there are tools, and there is many different ways to drink less without hating yourself through the process. So please go to my website, shameover.me, ⁓ ⁓ the links in the show description ⁓ learn more. have a reset that is crazy powerful, it is intended to do over 30 days, and it can truly help this transformation, especially if you feel like you're stuck or you just need a reset. So next time, lose the hangover, not the booze, Erica+ShameOver: Awesome. So what are some other tools that you really recommend when it comes to mindful drinking? Merrilee Burke, LMFT: So journaling is great, especially for moments when you're fighting to stay within your goals, right? Let's say you're having an evening when you're planning to drink. I recommend that people do this mindfulness check-in. So there are five steps to it. And it's really important that you keep it to under five minutes because if your check-in takes too long, it's not practical and you're not going to do it. So the check-in that I have people do is they start with noticing their emotions. What are they feeling emotionally? Are they stressed? Are they sad? Are they angry, frustrated? Any emotion that you're not enjoying feeling, once you start drinking is going to go away, but then you're not going to want to go back to feeling that way. So you might be inclined to drink more than you set out to. So just notice what your emotions are and just being aware of what could trigger you to drink more before you start drinking is going to give you more control over it. And it's gonna help you to make a plan. So you wanna notice your emotions. You wanna notice physical sensation, especially tiredness. Like if you're really tired but you have this event or this dinner or something you have to go to, when you start drinking, it's gonna alleviate some of that tiredness. But then you know when you stop drinking, you're gonna be even more tired. So you might not wanna stop drinking. Erica+ShameOver: Yes. Mmm. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: So just be aware, if you're tired, maybe say, you know what, I'm tired, I'm gonna, I know I'll feel better when I start drinking, but I don't want that to be my strategy for the whole night. So I'm going to come home at nine. Now I'm gonna set a limit. I'm gonna, even if I'm having fun, I'm gonna make myself come home so that I don't keep drinking to fight the tiredness. The next thing, the third thing is noticing any triggers. So these are going to be things that are specific to you that could lead you to drink in a way that's not what you want. So for instance, if you're going to a party and you find out your ex is going to be there. or you're having a fun night with your friends, but you know have this presentation you're really stressed out about the next day. Anything that tends to be something that makes you drink more, just be aware that it's going to come up, right? And don't pretend like it won't be like, well maybe it's gonna be fine to see my ex. If it's not gonna be fine, it's not gonna be fine. So then you can make a strategy around that. And maybe it's also like, I'm just gonna leave sooner, or I'm gonna stick to hanging out with this other person, whatever it is. Erica+ShameOver: We're. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: Now, and the fourth and fifth ones are really important. So the fourth one is setting your goals for the night. Because if you don't have a plan, you can't stick to your plan. So you wanna be as specific as possible. So this is gonna include the number of drinks that you'd like to have, what you're going to drink, maybe, you know, you can go overboard if you have cocktails, so maybe you're gonna stick to wine. It could be the time of the evening that you're gonna cut yourself off, or the time that you're gonna go home. It can be things like, how are you going to get home? know, because you might go, ⁓ I'll just go and I'll have one drink and then I'll be able to drive. Is that really realistic? You know, do you have a plan in place for in case you decide to keep drinking? So setting really specific intentions for what you want the drinking experience to look like is really important because again, if you don't know what you want to have happen, if your goal is just to not overdo it, that's not really specific enough for you to be mindful about while you're drinking. And then the last one is about setting a mantra. So mantra is a statement, it's like a one sentence statement that you repeat over and over again. it's, this is a thought that you want to have later on the evening. So let's say it's time to go home or had enough to drink, but you want to keep going. It's whatever you want to think later. So it might be something like, I want to feel good tomorrow, or I want to be in control, ⁓ or don't want to regret. Erica+ShameOver: Hmm. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: tonight or something, whatever you want to pop into your head a couple hours later after you've started drinking, that's what your mantra is going to be. you can, you have prayer beads, they have these beads that you just slide each one every time you say the mantra. If you have those, that's great. You can just set a timer on your phone. Set a one minute timer. And say your mantra, if you can say it out loud, that's really helpful, but it doesn't have to be out loud if you don't have the privacy, but just say this thing to yourself over and over again for one minute. And then you're much more likely to connect to that part of you that has an intention later on in the evening. Cause a lot of times what happens is the part of us that intends to drink in moderation goes away. They go to bed early and then the drinking parts are up and they're partying. And it's really easy to forget that we even had an intention if we don't really drill it in. Erica+ShameOver: Exactly. Yes. So how does that work with you have this intention, I want to feel great tomorrow, but then they're on, you know, drink three, four, and they're like, want to have fun more now. And ⁓ in their mindset, fun now means drinking more. So tomorrow's off. So where, where does that come in? Merrilee Burke, LMFT: It's, and that's why you really want to be super clear with yourself about what your intentions are and why. You know, and the, the mantra is kind of like the why. So like, if you say, I want to be, I only want to have three drinks. I want to leave by 10. The mantra is why, you know? And so it's kind of reminding you of what your goal is and why that's your goal. And the idea is the more you practice this, and it might not work the first time, the first time you do the whole mindfulness check-in, you might forget all about it when you go out drinking and not have a great night. But the more you practice it, the more you're in touch with those parts of you that want to drink in moderation, even though they don't typically show up, they'll start to show up more when you need them to, if you kind of invite them in. Erica+ShameOver: Yes, my one of my number one things to follow is that plan and prepare, which basically is a lot of exactly what you said, but being specific. And I think most people kind of plan like, I'm going to have two drinks tonight. But then the preparation piece to me is that getting specific. So maybe it's looking at the menu and seeing exactly what those drinks are. And, like you said, how am I getting home? Am I driving? So if I'm driving, then that already should much keep you much more contained, obviously. But you know, doing your homework so that you know exactly what you're going to have. And yes, things might change. You guys plan to go here, you end up going here instead. But still having done that work, you're going to be much more likely to stick with your plan than if you just wing it. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: Right, exactly. And like a like, you know, I remember a long time ago being like, well, I don't want to get wasted. And then I kept getting wasted. And it's like, never said, I never once in my whole life said, I want to get wasted tonight. I know that was never my goal. And yet it happened a lot because when you're drinking, when you're having another glass of wine and then another glass of wine, you're not thinking I'm in the process of getting wasted. It just kind of ends up that way. So that's why it's really important to have specific numbers and types of alcohol. Sometimes, you know, certain alcohol can give us. Erica+ShameOver: Yes. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: problems like sometimes wine is the problem because it tastes good and it just goes down really easy. So it's like, okay, I'm just gonna have this like hard liquor on ice that I don't really like that much and then I'll sip it and then it won't become a problem. So just having a strategy, like you said. Erica+ShameOver: Mm-hmm. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: is really important and again, like really reminding ourselves that there's a reason for this strategy. It's not, because sometimes somebody's drinking and they think, well, I'm not supposed to have another one. I'm supposed to stop. And then it feels like a drag. And then the rebel comes in and says, says who? it's important to remember because I want to feel good, because I want to control my drink. I want to ⁓ in moderation so I don't have to give up drinking altogether. Erica+ShameOver: Yes! Yes, and that's, I guess, the exact point of that mantra so that you are remembering that. I feel like so often, so often we feel like it's a punishment to not drink or to stop drinking. And I'm like, no, flip that in the script. Like, no one is forcing you to do this. Well, for some, but if you're not doing it for yourself, everyone else is just benefiting from it. It's going to be a lot harder to stick with. So reminding yourself like, this is not a punishment. My reward is not being hung over tomorrow. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: Exactly, yeah. And remind yourself like you're choosing this because in that moment, the part of you that is choosing moderation or choosing to change your relationship with alcohol isn't there. So you really need to remind yourself, ⁓ I'm not doing this because that study I read about how bad drinking is for you. I'm not doing this because someone gave me a hard time last time that I got drunk. It's I'm doing this because it's what I want to do. And it's really important to remind yourself of that in the moment. Erica+ShameOver: Yes. Exactly. And one of the things you had said I never said, and that reminded me of something that I remind myself of my clients all the time, that I never once have said I wish I drank more I wish I drank last night. So whether it, you know, I just drank in moderation or I didn't drink, I've never, ever wished that I either had drank or I had drank more. So I'm just like, this is just something to remind ourselves. Like we're always having a great time. We don't need more to continue that great time. That actually is the quickest way to kill the buzz is by trying to maintain that buzz. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: Yes, exactly. Or to drink so much that you don't even remember whether you had a good time or not. Erica+ShameOver: Exactly. Yes. So are there any other tools I know you've given us a lot to work with, which I really, really love and appreciate that. Are there any other big things that come up that can be helpful for people that you've found? Merrilee Burke, LMFT: I think with regard to mindfulness, I would just stick with those two different strategies depending on if you're planning to drink or planning to not drink. And then in terms of tools, I think it's just getting to know your different parts. I'm sure you've talked about there's a book called No Bad Parts, and it's an IFS book, but it's written, it's not for therapists, it's written for anybody. And it has exercises in there that you can do that can help you get to know who these parts are because you probably have multiple parts that want you to keep drinking the way you are. and possibly multiple parts that want you to change. And it's important to remember they all have your best interests at heart, even if they seem ⁓ hypercritical and kind of mean, they're trying to help you. Even if they seem like self-destructive, even if they're literally self-destructive, even a part that wants you to die thinks that death would be better for you than whatever painful experiences you're having. So it's like, even when they're literally self-destructive, they're not really trying to hurt you. They really think that's better for you. Erica+ShameOver: Exactly. Yes, and it just reminds me like how much safety matters, feeling safe because alcohol has provided us safety for so many times, even if really it's done the opposite for us, know, like put us in really bad situations or, you know, led to other things. But ultimately we've turned to it because it does make us feel safe and comfort and cozy and, you know, just that good. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: Right. And a lot of it is, you know, over time, our identity around alcohol gets really cemented. hear people, clients say to me all the time, like, well, I'm just never going to be the kind of person that can just leave wine in the bottle, that can just open a bottle and not finish it. And it's very limiting when we tell ourselves, like, this is who I am when it comes to alcohol. I need to tell myself this story. And I say story, I don't mean story like it's a lie, but it's a story, right? That's how we view ourselves through the stories of our lives. Erica+ShameOver: Yes. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: And I used to have a story that I used to say, I'll never be the kind of person who could just have one glass of wine with dinner. And course, spoiler, now sometimes I do just have one glass of wine with dinner. And so I was asking myself, I was thinking like, well, who did I think that person was, the type of person who would only have one glass of wine? And I realized that back then, I thought that was someone who didn't enjoy feeling inebriated, because I had never felt any kind of buzz from one glass of wine before. So I thought, well, why would I do that? That will never be me. Erica+ShameOver: Hmm. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: And it turns out, like, still do really like the feeling of being inebriated, and I often have more than one. But I also like the taste of wine, and sometimes if I'm having a specific kind of meal, I just want that experience without the full-blown feeling of intoxication. And now I'm older, and now sometimes I do get a buzz for more glass of wine, which, when I was in my 20s, never happened, and now it actually can very easily happen. So it was just a matter of, And I ask my clients to really think about like, who are you when it comes to alcohol? A lot of my clients will say things like, I have an addictive personality. And if that's been your experience of yourself, I'm not trying to like negate that, but I want people to know that we all have human brains. And if you have a human brain, then you have a brain that's prone to addiction. And that's everyone. And whether or not you develop an addiction, has more to do with your life experiences than the type of person you are or the type of brain that you have. So it's important to kind of question how are we thinking of ourselves when it comes to alcohol? Were there stories that we're telling ourselves about who we are when it comes to our drinking? Erica+ShameOver: Yes, and that is exactly why me personally, I'm very big into labels and not using them. But that's why even if I were to never have a drink again, I would never call myself sober. Because as soon as that gets in my head, I feel like it's almost like even the apple, you know, like you're thinking about it more, you're wanting it more, needing it more, all those things, which is why unfortunately so many people in AA, they are constantly, you know, having to get new coins to start over because that mentality can be so harmful. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: And if never learned how, like what the purpose of the alcohol was, like going back to what you said before, it's always a solution. If you don't know what the problem was that it was a solution for, you just turn to something else. And that's why there's kind of a... Erica+ShameOver: Yes. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: a misnomer in AA that if you have a problem with one substance, you would necessarily have a problem with all substances. You can't do anything. And that's not always true. You know, there are certainly people who can have a problem with alcohol and then maybe they try cannabis a couple of times and it doesn't really do anything. Or when my drinking was at its worst, I had also had some medical conditions that caused me to be prescribed opioids because they used to just give them out back then. Well, I never had a problem with the opioids, even though they were right in the cabinet, because that's just not the relationship that I had with that substance. Erica+ShameOver: with all. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: But the reason why sometimes somebody might have a problem with this substance and then that one and then that one isn't because of the substances, it's because they never really addressed what was causing the problems in the first place. Erica+ShameOver: Yes. I love that so much. And as you were saying, like, because people label themselves addictive personality all the time. And I'm like, great, if you can be addicted to that, then you can be addicted to putting yourself first. Like, let's just reframe it then. And now you're addicted to waking up feeling great. Make that your new addiction. You know, because it is so mindset based. Man, so ⁓ else? Because identity, obviously, that's come up a little bit ⁓ both of us. What else do you? ⁓ Merrilee Burke, LMFT: Yeah, it's great. Mm-hmm. Erica+ShameOver: find you really need to focus on or for people to really just start with if they're not working with a coach or therapist or along those lines ⁓ really start understanding their identity ⁓ how relates in that identity. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: think, ⁓ this part can be a little bit scary, and it has to do with our existential sense of responsibility, which is basically this idea that we are responsible for writing the story of our life. ⁓ that's a ⁓ scary, huge burden to be responsible for what life turns out to be. And what makes it even harder is we're not starting with clean sheets of paper, right? We're not starting, you know, we had all these things, like the beginning of the story got written by other people, our family, by our culture, by all these other things. it's like if somebody gave you a book that was half written and or quarter written and said, you have to make this into a masterpiece bestseller. And you look at the first, you know, quarter of the book and you're like, this is terrible. This is garbage. How am I supposed to turn this into something? Erica+ShameOver: No. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: Fantastic, but that is our responsibility when it comes to what our lives are. So recognizing that there was a time when we didn't really get to how much say in what our life was and the experiences we had. And that's when our brain was being formed to see ourselves, to perceive the world. sometimes we have to go back and really override that and kind of take that responsibility, which sounds like kind of a negative thing, but it's actually really freeing to say, yes, up until this point, I have been this way, but I'm the author of my story, and on this page I'm going to write, and then everything changed. And then I'm going to write the rest of story about how everything got to be different. And it's not that it's easy, it's really incredibly difficult, but it's also a big part of what we're here to do. Erica+ShameOver: ⁓ I've never heard it referred to that way. Like you described it so beautifully. And I think so much. It's freeing to hear it that way, because, a lot ⁓ the development, you can't you you are just showing up during that time and being taught what to do and how to think and all those things. But that's what's showing up in our behaviors nowadays. So until you really uncover that and understand that. The awareness piece is only one thing, but you can't fix those underlying beliefs without having all of that. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: Exactly. And it also isn't fair. A lot of the things that we're struggling with now as an adult, they're not our fault. ⁓ they might not be anybody's fault. It might not even be our parents' fault or ⁓ that we could point to. But things just went a certain way. And now we have these issues that we have to deal with. And it's not fair that we have to fix them, even though we didn't cause them. But that is just a Erica+ShameOver: Yes. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: part of a reality of being a person is that everyone who comes to work with me, it's like they have to do the work, I'm there to help, but they're the one doing the work and they're the one who has to pay me. so it's it's an unfair but universal part of being a person is that you're ultimately responsible for making all these positive changes, even though the way things are might not really be your fault. Erica+ShameOver: Yes. Well, and you look at so many athletes and just really renowned people, celebrities, all these things where they came from terribly abusive environments or really poor families or, all these different things. And now they're some of the most successful people out there. that, that is how you become the author and really write your own story. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: Mm-hmm. Right. And then that's tricky too, because if your story was like, came from nothing, I worked really hard, I accomplished all these things, I got to here, I have this beautiful house, this beautiful family, all this money, all this success, and then it's like, well, now what? Because that's been the story. And so it's like, well, okay, but now what if I'm only in my 30s or 40s or 50s? I have the whole rest of my life to live. And then that's why people get caught up in these things of like, well, I need a bigger house, I need a bigger yacht, I need to... Erica+ShameOver: Now what? Merrilee Burke, LMFT: make even more money. mean, cause it's like that was a great story in the beginning, but now maybe it's time for a new story, but we have no idea what that looks like. Erica+ShameOver: Yes. ⁓ that that's a good thing. Like you just have to be to be flexible with it and not just be stuck on that one thing. I mean, I definitely learned I used to be much more materialistic and keeping up with the Joneses type thing until I met my husband. ⁓ And has made me ⁓ much kind like I'm the kind to like, I just want to purge all day long, like get rid of all the stuff, like ⁓ become minimalist, which ⁓ that's was part of my personality, if you will. ⁓ But I'm so happy internally that the external is just of it. that make me happy anymore. You know, it's the relationships, it's the people I'm with, it's the relationship have with myself more than anything. And that is, I feel like ⁓ what you have to work on with this is getting to not only know yourself, but fall in love with yourself. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: Right. Yes. And recognize there's nothing wrong with the way you were before. There was nothing wrong with what you used to value. And if you look back, there was nothing wrong with being a party girl in your 20s. I don't know if that was you, that was me. And it's not that that was bad. It's just like, who are you now? And it's like, can embrace it like, yes, this is who I was. And I was cool and I was fun to be around. And you could still be cool and fun to be around, but not drinking excessively. it's a little bit trickier because it's like, Erica+ShameOver: Yeah, exactly. Mm-hmm. ⁓ very much so. Exactly. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: Some of these stories are archetypes that we fall into and recognizing, wait, I'm not just an archetype. You are maybe when you're young and you're figuring out your identity, but then you get to a point where you think, wow, there are all these options. The world is kind of wide open to me and I can be so many different things. I don't need to fall into this party girl archetype. And I don't have to fall into the like, you know, really, you know, maybe uptight housewife or uptight mom or, you know, anxious mom or soccer mom or whatever that's supposed to look like, I don't have to fall into any archetype. I can just be all the different things that feel right to me. Erica+ShameOver: Thanks, man. Yes, and it should feel easy, but I know that we're, we can get trapped into the expectations that we feel others have for us or maybe that we put on ourselves that can be very limiting. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: Right, exactly. And that's the thing, it's all limiting. Any kind of story that we tell ourselves, especially if it involves the words like never or always, or it's just a straightforward, like I am this way. know, again, there's a part of you that is that way. And that's when it's good to go back to the parts and recognize, yeah, but there's another part of me that wants something else. There's another part of me that is just as real. It's maybe not as present, but it's just as real that maybe wants something different. And like, I think that's a big part of... Erica+ShameOver: Yes. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: becoming a full-fledged person is recognizing all your parts, not just the parts you've been validated for or recognized for, not just the version of you that other people know and like, but recognizing there are many, many different facets and like exploring them all and giving them all their moment is really part of having a complete life. Erica+ShameOver: Yes. And I love that you had brought up earlier, like you personally love being inebriated at times. I'm the same way. And it's, it's very conflicting because I feel like when you see like, you know, in the movies and TV shows and all of that, like it's glamorized, but then in real life, especially if it becomes problematic at all, it's completely opposite. So that's where all the shame and everything comes in. Yeah. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: Right, yeah, exactly. There's a kind of cool version of drinking that we see. And also, I see in film and television, everybody's got a drink, but you don't see them having the second one and the third one and the fourth one. ⁓ ⁓ what happens. Yeah, but they're always gonna have a Yeah. Erica+ShameOver: but they're always with a drink, even though, that drink didn't last six hours, but you also wouldn't be behaving that way if you only had that one drink, like, yeah. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: Yeah. And some shows do a good job. have been like a couple of shows. I remember this episode of Sex and the City, kind of famous episode where she had the photo shoot the day after she was drinking and she just, and she was smoking a cigarette and she just didn't look very fresh and she thought they were going to do makeup and they didn't. And so it's like, sometimes you do get to see like, uh-oh that the next day there are consequences to always having a drink. Erica+ShameOver: Mm-hmm. Well, and just how much that, especially the habitual drink, most of the people I work with are more the habitual as opposed to just the random binging, which, you know, have that as well. But it's how that habitual can catch up with you over time, you know, because normally it's just that one or two glasses of wine that turns into two or three that turns into the bottle. And then all of a sudden you wake up one day and you're like, what am I doing? You know, so, yeah. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: And that's when tracking can be really scary because when you start to see those numbers in the beginning, but what's great about tracking and why I always really encourage people to stick with it is those numbers are going to go down. And you'd be surprised how often I'll be working with clients for months and let's say they have a really bad night. They have more than drinks than they intended to, or they had a week where they didn't have a dry night after months of having a dry night consistently. Erica+ShameOver: And remember that Sex and the City episode, so good. Mm-hmm. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: And they'll feel like they're not making any progress. Cause it's kind of that AA mindset of like, you have to start all over if you don't miss your goal. And I say, you know, look at your total number of drinks, like where you were when you first came to me and where you are now. And that you having a week without a dry night is an outlier. There was a time you've gone years without a dry night. And now it's unusual to have a week where you don't have a dry night. And that's what progress looks like. Erica+ShameOver: Mm-hmm. Yes. And that's why the tracking is so important because you don't have that data to physically look at when you need it. And especially over time, seeing the, mean, I have people who have been working with me for years because as we said, like it's not about the alcohol. we're, we're diving so much more into such a deeper stuff than just, know, the surface level drinking, if you will, but Merrilee Burke, LMFT: Exactly. Erica+ShameOver: when they get frustrated, I'll do their starting out assessment and look and be like, okay, let's see how many drinks you were having when you first came in. Like you haven't been doing this for how long? Like, so yeah, you're upset that you had three last night, but like you said, that's an outlier or that is not something that you're doing every single day. Like give yourself that grace. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: hangovers, know, ⁓ recently I had a client, she had her first hangover she'd had since she'd been working with me in a really long time and she was really beating herself up. I thought I had a handle on this. I thought I was doing so much better. And I said, when came to me, you were having a couple hangovers a month and now you've gone months without one. And that is progress. Like look at how far you've come that you've gone from a couple a month to going months and months to the point where you're shocked that you ended up with a hangover. And then of course, you know, we do the work to figure out what had happened and what we're wrong and learn from it. as opposed to just beating yourself up over it. Erica+ShameOver: Yeah. Well, and on that note, if you're drinking less, you're going to get a hangover more easily too. So what used to give you a hangover after X amount of drinks, now you're probably not even half of that will give you the same type hangover. Yeah, for me, yeah, I'm like, When I've had, I had a hangover after like a glass and a half of wine. I'm like, this is not fair. Like I used to be able to drink a bottle of wine without a hangover. ⁓ Merrilee Burke, LMFT: Exactly. So really it's something to celebrate. It's like, I did so much this year. Erica+ShameOver: Part of me is really pissed about it because I want to be able to drink it and enjoy it, but the other part of me is like, this is data. My body is saying that's too much for me right now, so there you go. yeah, awesome. Well, I know we're right about it time. wanted to see, was there anything we didn't get too chat about that you wanted to make sure we covered? Merrilee Burke, LMFT: I don't think so. think there is another piece when it comes to working with the of like, well, who gets to be in charge kind of, but I don't think we have time to go into all of that. So no, think this was what I loved about this conversation we just had is when you work with people and you know this, who have issues with alcohol, it goes in so many different directions. No two people are ever the same and you get to go to really deep places. Sometimes it's more about habit change, but a lot of times it's about like really deep, very specific things to that person. But we all kind of start off in the same place, which is like the mindfulness tools and understanding the different parts. And so that is where I always start with people. So it's nice that we got to talk about the stuff that's kind of universal, that's the first couple of sessions anyway. then it goes in a million different directions from there. Erica+ShameOver: Absolutely. Awesome. Well, how can people find you? I'll make sure to include it in the show notes too, but how can people connect with you or learn more? Merrilee Burke, LMFT: It's just merrilyburke.com and I'm licensed. see clients in California and Florida. if you live in a state that is not California or Florida, I might be able to be a registered telehealth provider there. So if you want to reach out, you can, but definitely if you're in California or Florida, then reach out you'd like to chat. Erica+ShameOver: Awesome. Well, this was so beneficial and helpful and informative and all the things. So thank you so much for your time and I appreciate you being here. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: Well, thank you so much for doing the podcast and for everything you do to help people. And thank you for letting me be a part of it today. Erica+ShameOver: Yeah, and you too. You're doing great work. Keep it up. Merrilee Burke, LMFT: You too. Thanks.