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BONUS EP: UBank CEO Philippa Watson · She's On The Money

0:00
Speaker 1: She's on the Money. She's on the Money.
0:23
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to a bonus episode of She's on
0:27
Speaker 2: the Money. You are joined by myself and Miss Tony
0:31
Speaker 2: Lodge to introduce this very special bonus episode. Tony, who
0:35
Speaker 2: did we get to sit down with this week and
0:37
Speaker 2: have a chat with?
0:39
Speaker 3: So we got to sit down with the CEO of
0:42
Speaker 3: U Bank, which try fancy, really fancy for us. Philippa,
0:46
Speaker 3: who is an incredible woman, has gone through an amazing
0:49
Speaker 3: journey and is now a female CEO of a bank.
0:53
Speaker 2: I just show bank like one of the biggest banks
0:56
Speaker 2: in the country.
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Speaker 3: I can't get over the fact that we got to
0:59
Speaker 3: chat with and because we're in lockdown, we got to
1:01
Speaker 3: do it over zoom, so we got to talk to
1:03
Speaker 3: her and see her and it was just really incredible.
1:06
Speaker 2: It was actually such an experience, and I'm very lucky
1:08
Speaker 2: that I have somewhat made friends with Philippa over the
1:11
Speaker 2: last few months. She's honestly one of the biggest champions.
1:14
Speaker 2: Oh She's on the Money. She adores our community. It
1:17
Speaker 2: seems wild to me that the CEO of a bank
1:19
Speaker 2: actually listens to every single one of our episodes when
1:22
Speaker 2: they drop, So think about that next time you downloaded
1:25
Speaker 2: she's on the money episode? Who else is listening? Because
1:28
Speaker 2: I had no idea. And when I grabbed a coffee
1:30
Speaker 2: with Bilippa last time, she like, be sure I've listened
1:32
Speaker 2: to all your podcasts And I was like, what why
1:34
Speaker 2: would you do that? Like s of a bank? Like
1:37
Speaker 2: you don't need my advice, Like you're way smarter than me.
1:40
Speaker 2: So I was just so lucky to meet Philippa And
1:43
Speaker 2: I knew when I met her that I really wanted
1:45
Speaker 2: to share her with our She's on the money community
1:47
Speaker 2: because I think that we all have Tony in our heads,
1:50
Speaker 2: this idea of what a bank CEO is like, and
1:53
Speaker 2: they from my perspective as a young millennial, can I
1:57
Speaker 2: say that at thirty? I don't know, But as a
1:59
Speaker 2: young millennial, I just have this preconceived idea on my
2:02
Speaker 2: head that they are male, they're older, they just are
2:05
Speaker 2: stuck in their ways. They're not progressive, they aren't the
2:08
Speaker 2: type of person that I would really resonate with. And
2:10
Speaker 2: Philip Brew's one of emos down to earth, relatable people
2:14
Speaker 2: that you'll ever meet. In this interview with Philip, she
2:17
Speaker 2: talks about her divorce and her money story and where
2:19
Speaker 2: she's come from, and that she doesn't come from a
2:21
Speaker 2: line of CEOs, and I just think she's so aspirational
2:25
Speaker 2: and I don't want to keep pumping up her tires
2:27
Speaker 2: because I know she's gonna listen to this one too.
2:29
Speaker 2: So Tony Lands jumps straight into the interview LEDs dive
2:37
Speaker 2: straight in Philip Park. How did you become the CEO
2:42
Speaker 2: of you Bank?
2:44
Speaker 4: Thanks Victoria.
2:45
Speaker 5: So my journey towards being CEO of you Bank has
2:49
Speaker 5: been It's been really interesting one lots of twists and turns.
2:52
Speaker 5: I certainly, you know, twenty years or so ago, when
2:56
Speaker 5: I started out full time working after university, I didn't
2:59
Speaker 5: have my site set on being CEO of anything. I
3:02
Speaker 5: was just happy to, you know, be part of a
3:05
Speaker 5: team who was doing interesting work. And the story of
3:08
Speaker 5: my career has been pretty much taking every opportunity that's
3:12
Speaker 5: been thrown at me, taking on jobs that other people
3:15
Speaker 5: didn't want to do because they were hard or high risk,
3:18
Speaker 5: and showing enough resilience and determination to be able to
3:21
Speaker 5: do the hard jobs so that at the end of
3:23
Speaker 5: each difficult job, I was always thrown another difficult job.
3:26
Speaker 5: And by the time you've sort of done eight or
3:28
Speaker 5: nine difficult jobs back to back. You're you know, you're
3:31
Speaker 5: reasonably ready to run something like you bank.
3:34
Speaker 2: That is so awesome. But I think the most important
3:38
Speaker 2: thing for me, you know, having met you and gotten
3:42
Speaker 2: the opportunity to sit down and have a coffee and
3:44
Speaker 2: ask you a whole heap of really perfect questions, I
3:48
Speaker 2: learned that it wasn't necessarily your experience. It was also
3:52
Speaker 2: your passion and the fact that you are literally so
3:56
Speaker 2: excited about finance and financial literacy. And you know, I
4:00
Speaker 2: find the banking space really interesting because it drives so
4:03
Speaker 2: much change and there's just so much going on from
4:07
Speaker 2: banking stuff but to compliance and having gone through the
4:09
Speaker 2: Royal commissions, like it's crazy to see the outcomes of that.
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Speaker 2: But can you tell us a little bit about what
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Speaker 2: you're passionate about, because I know that is something that's
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Speaker 2: going to really really resonate with the people listening to
4:20
Speaker 2: this podcast right now.
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Speaker 5: Your point is correct that when I started, it probably
4:26
Speaker 5: wasn't the logical choice for me.
4:27
Speaker 4: So when you look back.
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Speaker 5: At my family of origin and my cousins and aunties
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Speaker 5: and uncles, my family far and wide all work in
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Speaker 5: the caring profession. So they are nurses or teachers, or
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Speaker 5: headdresses or electricians. You know, people who do something that's
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Speaker 5: really valuable to other people. And banking is a little
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Speaker 5: bit abstract to a lot of people. It sounds complicated,
4:55
Speaker 5: it sounds difficult, and it doesn't sound like it's part
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Speaker 5: of the everyday life of each Australian. But when I
5:02
Speaker 5: started in banking, what I really quickly realized is that
5:06
Speaker 5: money is at the heart of people's welfare. It's at
5:09
Speaker 5: the heart of their health, it's at the heart of
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Speaker 5: their safety and stability. And so for me, the reason
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Speaker 5: that I started in banking is different to the reason
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Speaker 5: I've stayed in banking, and the reason that I've stayed
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Speaker 5: in banking for fifteen years now and probably will for
5:24
Speaker 5: a good time to come, is because I think if
5:26
Speaker 5: you can help people get into a position where they
5:29
Speaker 5: really understand their finances and when they're really making deliberate
5:33
Speaker 5: choices about their money, you can help people get into
5:36
Speaker 5: a much better position.
5:37
Speaker 4: In their life.
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Speaker 5: And so, you know, taking care of people's money is
5:42
Speaker 5: not so different from taking care of people's health, taking
5:45
Speaker 5: care of people's children, etc. I see it all as
5:48
Speaker 5: part of social stability and giving back.
5:51
Speaker 2: I love that. Okay, philipart, Tony and I we have
5:55
Speaker 2: this idea in our head of what a CEO quote
5:57
Speaker 2: should be, especially a bank CEO, usually white and male,
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Speaker 2: but usually in their late sixties or seventies, because you know,
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Speaker 2: stereotyping is that you have you come from lots of
6:10
Speaker 2: intergenerational wealth. Have you come from a line of CEOs?
6:14
Speaker 2: Is this just like did your mum do this? So
6:16
Speaker 2: that's why you also wanted to be CEO? Where did
6:19
Speaker 2: you get your start? Can we know a little bit
6:21
Speaker 2: of the pervy details behind your background?
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Speaker 4: Sure? Well, I'm not male, I am in my I'm
6:27
Speaker 4: in my early forties.
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Speaker 5: I No, I don't come from I don't come from
6:33
Speaker 5: a long lineage of you know, CEOs or my dad
6:38
Speaker 5: ran a post office, my mom is a nurse. My
6:42
Speaker 5: wonderful brother is an electrician. And really the way that
6:47
Speaker 5: I first got my glimpse into corporate life and into
6:50
Speaker 5: the business world was that when I was a teenager,
6:52
Speaker 5: I babysat for a family in the area and the father, Stephen,
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Speaker 5: was a businessman and his wife was an accountant, Gillian,
7:01
Speaker 5: and they really took me in under their wing, and
7:04
Speaker 5: they exposed me to the world of business and helped
7:09
Speaker 5: me see the possibilities for what my career could be.
7:12
Speaker 5: And I'm you know, I was very grateful. I ended
7:14
Speaker 5: up babysitting for them and then working in their business,
7:17
Speaker 5: and it really gave me a glimpse into a world
7:21
Speaker 5: which I hadn't seen.
7:22
Speaker 4: Now.
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Speaker 5: My parents gave me a love for education and for
7:27
Speaker 5: making sure that I was bettering myself. But really it
7:32
Speaker 5: was through the lens of these two people that I
7:35
Speaker 5: babysit for that had really opened up that whole new
7:38
Speaker 5: world to me. So I guess I be sure. Yeah,
7:41
Speaker 5: I mean, I guess where I have got to is
7:45
Speaker 5: a product of good opportunities, but great determination and making
7:51
Speaker 5: the most of the opportunities that were put in front
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Speaker 5: of me.
7:53
Speaker 2: I love that. So, Philippa, what was your first job, Like,
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Speaker 2: what were you doing?
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Speaker 5: My first job was in the low pharmacy. It was
8:01
Speaker 5: in my suburb, and I love the job. I probably
8:03
Speaker 5: shouldn't say this, but when you work in a suburban pharmacy,
8:07
Speaker 5: you know everything that's going on.
8:09
Speaker 2: I love the pervy details. I feel like that would
8:12
Speaker 2: be the next level of pervy details exactly.
8:14
Speaker 5: So I knew everything that was going on, but I
8:16
Speaker 5: always worked hard. You know, when I was going through university,
8:19
Speaker 5: I had two jobs all the way through university. I've
8:24
Speaker 5: always had this sense that I needed to be taking
8:28
Speaker 5: care of myself and putting money away for savings, et cetera.
8:31
Speaker 5: I don't know why I had it in built, but
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Speaker 5: I always had the sense that I had to financially
8:36
Speaker 5: take care of myself.
8:37
Speaker 2: And I feel like that OOZ is out of you
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Speaker 2: as well. Like all your tips, all your tricks are
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Speaker 2: always about, you know, putting yourself forward and leaning into
8:46
Speaker 2: making sure that you're putting your financial security first. And
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Speaker 2: I think that that's something that a lot of people
8:51
Speaker 2: in our community really struggle with because we get dms.
8:55
Speaker 2: It's not always about what is happening in the community,
8:58
Speaker 2: as in publicly on the Facebook group or on our Instagram.
9:01
Speaker 2: A lot of the magic that happens in Cheese on
9:04
Speaker 2: the Money is in our Instagram messages or our Facebook
9:07
Speaker 2: messages or even my emails. And it's often young mums
9:11
Speaker 2: reaching out saying I'm just breaking up with a partner
9:13
Speaker 2: or I'm going through a divorce, and they don't know
9:15
Speaker 2: what the right thing to do is. And I mean
9:18
Speaker 2: it's very different for everybody's situation. But I think coming
9:21
Speaker 2: from somebody like you, the permission to lean into financial
9:25
Speaker 2: security when maybe everything inside of you is saying no,
9:29
Speaker 2: you need to be there for your child, I think
9:31
Speaker 2: that that is really really special, and I think it's
9:34
Speaker 2: something that we should shout from the rooftops as well,
9:37
Speaker 2: because yes, they might be in childcare more hours than
9:40
Speaker 2: you would love them to be, but long term, they
9:42
Speaker 2: are going to be so much better off because you
9:45
Speaker 2: made those decisions. And children know that they can feel
9:48
Speaker 2: the stress, they can feel your anxiety, and I think that, yeah,
9:52
Speaker 2: what you preach and what you talk about is just
9:55
Speaker 2: so important and also just so relatable, and knowing where
9:59
Speaker 2: you sit in what you do, it's just going to
10:02
Speaker 2: permeate all the way through your organization.
10:05
Speaker 5: When you work in a bank, one of the glimpses
10:08
Speaker 5: that you get is a glimpse into people's lives when
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Speaker 5: things have gone wrong. And for a number of years
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Speaker 5: I ran the hardship function of a large bank, and
10:18
Speaker 5: that's where people call all day every day to tell
10:21
Speaker 5: you what's really going on in their life, not what
10:23
Speaker 5: Instagram says is going on in their life, but what's
10:25
Speaker 5: really going on and you know, the proportion of customers
10:30
Speaker 5: who call in who are women who are in difficult situations.
10:34
Speaker 5: You know, when you see that, it's pretty sobering. And
10:38
Speaker 5: that's why I'm so passionate about women talking to women
10:43
Speaker 5: about finance as well as talking to each other about,
10:47
Speaker 5: you know, all the other aspects of life that we
10:49
Speaker 5: share very openly. One of the wonderful things about women
10:52
Speaker 5: is that we have a way of letting down our
10:54
Speaker 5: guard and telling each other really intimate details about our life,
10:59
Speaker 5: things that men don't share with one another. But when
11:01
Speaker 5: it comes to finances, the guards go up and we
11:04
Speaker 5: don't talk about that. So we're happy to talk about
11:07
Speaker 5: birth control, but we're not happy to talk about our
11:09
Speaker 5: financial position and needing a.
11:11
Speaker 4: Bit of help.
11:12
Speaker 5: So that's why I think that your book and the
11:15
Speaker 5: work that you're doing through your podcast and other areas
11:18
Speaker 5: is so important because it allows women to actually ask
11:21
Speaker 5: the tough questions about what's really going on in our lives.
11:26
Speaker 2: I think that's really really important as well. And it
11:29
Speaker 2: seems so counterintuitive that in twenty twenty one, we still
11:33
Speaker 2: have people in our community that say speaking about your
11:36
Speaker 2: income is taboo. And I've recently learned even though I
11:40
Speaker 2: am an employer and I have a team of people,
11:43
Speaker 2: I've recently learned it is still the norm to have
11:47
Speaker 2: caveats in people's employment contracts to say do not speak
11:50
Speaker 2: about your income with other people. Because I started talking
11:54
Speaker 2: about it and you know, saying this should be more normalized,
11:56
Speaker 2: and people like Victoria I still I signed a contract
11:59
Speaker 2: last week and it said that, now just go a week.
12:02
Speaker 2: Really that backwards, and I get bombarded, literally bombarded online
12:07
Speaker 2: through social media with people telling me that what I'm
12:10
Speaker 2: doing is lower class and that you shouldn't be talking
12:13
Speaker 2: about your income because it's not classy, and that I
12:16
Speaker 2: am a got called a ferral the other day and
12:18
Speaker 2: I was like, do you know what? You can say
12:20
Speaker 2: whatever you want, but I know deep down that people
12:23
Speaker 2: are in better financial positions because other people are willing
12:26
Speaker 2: to talk about it, and if it's in your employment
12:29
Speaker 2: contract to not talk about income, like that's okay, But
12:32
Speaker 2: knowing that the conversations are going on in their peripheral,
12:35
Speaker 2: knowing that they're going on at brunch now, and that
12:37
Speaker 2: you know, we've got the Shees on the Money podcast
12:40
Speaker 2: in now the Property Playbook to really normalize one Hey
12:43
Speaker 2: this is the property journey. This is what it's going
12:45
Speaker 2: to take. I'm really sorry that you know. We're not
12:48
Speaker 2: here to turbo charge it. We're not actually even here
12:50
Speaker 2: to go, hey, here's actually how to buy a property.
12:53
Speaker 2: You can have it next year. We're here to say, hey,
12:55
Speaker 2: it can take ten years, but if that's what you
12:57
Speaker 2: really want, we're here for that long haul. We are
12:59
Speaker 2: here to help you. Here's how you should be doing it.
13:01
Speaker 2: This is the type of bank you should be with
13:03
Speaker 2: so that you can actually make the most of your
13:05
Speaker 2: savings and all of that fun stuff. But it just
13:08
Speaker 2: honestly baffles me that in twenty twenty one, we are
13:12
Speaker 2: still not having open, honest conversations around money and empowering
13:15
Speaker 2: women in the way that they genuinely deserve to be empowered.
13:19
Speaker 2: What do you think fill apart is the next step
13:22
Speaker 2: towards actually creating financial equality.
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Speaker 5: Look, the data around this is really sobering. There are
13:29
Speaker 5: you know, International Women's Day. You always see the data
13:32
Speaker 5: that comes out around income equality, around representation of women
13:37
Speaker 5: in corporate and on boards, et cetera. And you know,
13:41
Speaker 5: some of the stats say it's going to take fifty years.
13:43
Speaker 5: Some of the stats stay it's going to take two
13:44
Speaker 5: hundred years, depending on which stats you're looking at. What
13:48
Speaker 5: we can do today, I think as women is firstly
13:52
Speaker 5: to lean in to our careers as much as we can.
13:57
Speaker 5: And everyone's different, and there's always stages in your life
14:00
Speaker 5: where you need you know, you have the time and
14:03
Speaker 5: capacity to be more focused on work, or where you
14:06
Speaker 5: need to focus on other things. So there's seasons to life,
14:09
Speaker 5: but not giving up too soon on your career, taking
14:14
Speaker 5: care of your personal finances really matters. And then helping
14:18
Speaker 5: one another, and women helping women is such a recipe
14:21
Speaker 5: for success because you know, we've got a very you know,
14:24
Speaker 5: we've got thousands of years of women banding together to
14:27
Speaker 5: help one another out, and this podcast is you know,
14:31
Speaker 5: it's part of that.
14:32
Speaker 2: I love that, and I knew that you were going
14:34
Speaker 2: to say that in a way, but I think it's
14:37
Speaker 2: so important because at the end of the day, the
14:39
Speaker 2: values that you hold are actually the values that She's
14:42
Speaker 2: on the Money team hold really close to their hearts.
14:44
Speaker 2: So I guess, pivoting into the conversation around COVID nineteen,
14:49
Speaker 2: we have been going through this for a significant period
14:52
Speaker 2: of time now, and we're seeing in our community that
14:55
Speaker 2: that's significantly impacting one our ability to get into property,
14:58
Speaker 2: but two to just save best and have healthy finances
15:02
Speaker 2: and a lot of people who are experiencing really dwindling
15:05
Speaker 2: emergency funds. Can you give us some insight as to
15:08
Speaker 2: what you and you Bank are seeing when it comes
15:10
Speaker 2: to our health goals and our finance goals and how
15:14
Speaker 2: COVID has impacted that.
15:17
Speaker 5: So You've Bank's done some really interesting work research work
15:21
Speaker 5: in the last probably the last eighteen months or so,
15:24
Speaker 5: and we've looked at savings patterns for younger people and
15:30
Speaker 5: it is really clear that there a lot of people
15:32
Speaker 5: are struggling, you know, with underemployment or unemployment and the
15:36
Speaker 5: uncertainty of things. But it's also really clear that there's
15:39
Speaker 5: been a real shift in focus for people who are
15:43
Speaker 5: trying to save, and you know, the focus being more
15:46
Speaker 5: on rainy day accounts, on having a safety net underneath,
15:50
Speaker 5: having an emergency fund, rather than saving for specific discretionary
15:56
Speaker 5: goods or holidays, et cetera. And I think I think
16:00
Speaker 5: that's a positive and so there's always an upside, right,
16:05
Speaker 5: And I think that part of the conversation in Australia
16:09
Speaker 5: and globally now is making sure that we plan. You know,
16:14
Speaker 5: we hope for the best, but we plan for the worst.
16:16
Speaker 5: And I think with financial management that's so much a
16:19
Speaker 5: part of what you're trying to do, which is you're
16:20
Speaker 5: trying to lay down healthy habits that are going to
16:25
Speaker 5: help you achieve your goals, but also make sure that
16:28
Speaker 5: you can manage if things don't go quite to plan.
16:32
Speaker 4: So I think that one of the.
16:33
Speaker 5: Things that COVID has done has helped us think about
16:37
Speaker 5: a shortest span of time. So you know, previously, you know,
16:41
Speaker 5: when you're saving for a goal that's ten years away,
16:43
Speaker 5: it's really difficult to keep on a savings path for
16:46
Speaker 5: ten years. And I think that what helpfully COVID has
16:49
Speaker 5: shown us is that we don't necessarily know what's going
16:52
Speaker 5: to happen in three months time, in six months time,
16:55
Speaker 5: in nine months time. So all we can do is
16:58
Speaker 5: lay down, you know, patterns today, tomorrow, next week that
17:02
Speaker 5: are taking us in the right direction. Often when we
17:06
Speaker 5: look into the savings patterns of new bank customers, we
17:09
Speaker 5: see that people are setting themselves three month goals, so
17:13
Speaker 5: they're saving a certain amount, they're trying to hit a
17:16
Speaker 5: one thousand dollars savings goal, and once they've got the
17:18
Speaker 5: one thousand savings goal, they're trying to hit a three
17:20
Speaker 5: thousand savings goal. And when you break things down in
17:23
Speaker 5: those kind of steps, it's a lot easier for people.
17:26
Speaker 5: The challenge with saving for a house or an investment
17:29
Speaker 5: property deposit is it's a big number. But if you
17:32
Speaker 5: can break it down in smaller steps that it helps
17:34
Speaker 5: keep you motivated along the way.
17:36
Speaker 2: I would agree, and we see a lot of that
17:39
Speaker 2: in our community. Like saving for a home is such
17:42
Speaker 2: a big undertaking and it's actually really overwhelming when you
17:46
Speaker 2: start speaking about it openly. You go, all right, philipa,
17:49
Speaker 2: I would really like to save for my first home,
17:51
Speaker 2: And you go, great, how much of a deposit do
17:53
Speaker 2: you want? And you kind of start looking into it
17:54
Speaker 2: and you go one hundred thousand dollars and you go okay, cool,
17:57
Speaker 2: Like that seems pretty normal for metropolitan Melbourne. We're not
18:00
Speaker 2: saying that that's normal regionally, but you go, okay, that
18:03
Speaker 2: seems about fair. How much stamp duty am I paying?
18:06
Speaker 2: And you've got to add all those things up, and
18:08
Speaker 2: then we start breaking down that cost based on how
18:11
Speaker 2: much capacity we actually do have to save and I
18:15
Speaker 2: find it really interesting because there's a lot of research
18:17
Speaker 2: at the moment in Australia done by the ABS saying
18:22
Speaker 2: that it takes on average millennial four years to save
18:25
Speaker 2: for a house, and I would absolutely argue with that
18:29
Speaker 2: because looking at my community, to save one hundred thousand
18:32
Speaker 2: dollars plus stamp duty, especially as a single female, it's
18:37
Speaker 2: going to take close to ten years. And I think
18:39
Speaker 2: we really need to start normalizing those timeframes, as much
18:43
Speaker 2: as they are overwhelming, As much as you know we're
18:45
Speaker 2: setting smaller three, six nine month goals like you were
18:48
Speaker 2: talking about, we really need to normalize that. Yep, those
18:52
Speaker 2: a little goals to set along the way, but the
18:54
Speaker 2: bigger picture, unfortunately, is quite a large one and that's
18:58
Speaker 2: a really big pill to swallow. And you've got to
19:00
Speaker 2: really make sure that that goal that you're working towards
19:04
Speaker 2: is one that you are super passionate about, because if
19:06
Speaker 2: you're just saving for a house because you think it's
19:08
Speaker 2: the right thing to do, that's such a big piece
19:11
Speaker 2: of your life that you are contributing to something that
19:14
Speaker 2: if it's not your favorite thing or it's not something
19:16
Speaker 2: you genuinely want, maybe we really need to pivot and
19:21
Speaker 2: reposition ourselves to make sure that we are actually creating
19:24
Speaker 2: the life we want, because otherwise I can't see myself
19:28
Speaker 2: committing to a goal for ten years that I ultimately
19:32
Speaker 2: didn't want to achieve. And I'm in a very privileged
19:35
Speaker 2: position where I have a dual income household. My partner
19:38
Speaker 2: has a salary and way journing job, which is epic.
19:41
Speaker 2: Is somebody who like me, earns their own income being
19:44
Speaker 2: self employed, and that goes up and down depending on
19:47
Speaker 2: the month. So for us, it was much easier to
19:50
Speaker 2: save for home, but that journey still took more than
19:54
Speaker 2: five years between the two of us, and I just
19:56
Speaker 2: look at it and go even I didn't fit into
19:58
Speaker 2: the millennial bracket of what was expected to save for
20:02
Speaker 2: a home, and I think it just seems like such
20:05
Speaker 2: unnecessary pressure, especially if in Melbourne it's going to take
20:09
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand dollars, Like Tony, you and I were
20:11
Speaker 2: talking about this recently, where you know you're thinking about
20:14
Speaker 2: one day purchasing property and one hundred thousand dollars seems
20:17
Speaker 2: to be about what you'd need to save four years.
20:20
Speaker 2: That's twenty five thousand dollars a year. Do you have
20:22
Speaker 2: that savings capacity.
20:24
Speaker 3: It's a lot of money.
20:26
Speaker 2: It's a lot of money, and I think that we
20:27
Speaker 2: really need to normalize that that's so much. But back
20:31
Speaker 2: to what you were saying before, Philippa, Let's make smaller goals.
20:34
Speaker 2: Let's make those three month ones so that we can
20:36
Speaker 2: stay on track. Let's do three, six, nine months so
20:39
Speaker 2: that we can stay motivated in the long term instead
20:42
Speaker 2: of falling the horse really really early on.
20:45
Speaker 5: It's easy to think that you have to get somewhere
20:49
Speaker 5: in one step as well. When I was in my twenties,
20:53
Speaker 5: my first property that I purchased was a house right
20:59
Speaker 5: up in the top of Northern Queensland because that's where
21:01
Speaker 5: I could afford to buy a house. And the you know,
21:04
Speaker 5: wisdom that had been passed down to me was that
21:07
Speaker 5: land was it was better to buy land than to
21:09
Speaker 5: buy an apartment. So as a result, I went to
21:13
Speaker 5: remote northern Queensland, I bought a house. I sold that
21:17
Speaker 5: house about five years later and made about a ten
21:19
Speaker 5: percent loss on it. Oh no, yeah, because I bought
21:23
Speaker 5: in a market that I didn't understand, and so you
21:27
Speaker 5: make mistakes along the way, but you also learn something
21:30
Speaker 5: from them. And you know, once I got myself out
21:33
Speaker 5: of that situation. I bought an apartment in Sydney, and
21:38
Speaker 5: I got to buying a family home for myself in
21:41
Speaker 5: my late thirties post divorce. And I can tell you
21:45
Speaker 5: late thirties post divorce, when you're taking on a big
21:48
Speaker 5: mortgage all by yourself with two little kids, that's just
21:52
Speaker 5: as scary as taking on debt in your twenties, when
21:55
Speaker 5: you have no responsibilities and you have expenses in.
21:58
Speaker 4: Your life that you can flect up and down.
22:01
Speaker 5: So the thing that I think about property is property
22:06
Speaker 5: will always feel like a big step. You know, no
22:08
Speaker 5: matter where you are in your journey, you sort of
22:10
Speaker 5: take a deep breath, you do all the thinking you
22:13
Speaker 5: possibly can, you run all the numbers, and then you
22:16
Speaker 5: step out into it. But one of the things that
22:19
Speaker 5: I think is really important with property is that you're
22:21
Speaker 5: thinking really hard about the impact that that property is
22:25
Speaker 5: going to have on your lifestyle. And just as you've said, Victoria,
22:31
Speaker 5: buying a property that you can't afford so that you
22:36
Speaker 5: have the feeling that you've got greater safety and security
22:40
Speaker 5: is not necessarily a step forward. And when you look
22:43
Speaker 5: at all of the hype around property prices, sure we
22:47
Speaker 5: are in a market that is very buoyant at the moment,
22:50
Speaker 5: but we've also got a whole lot of extra dynamics
22:54
Speaker 5: that go into making you feel like you should be
22:56
Speaker 5: panicked about property. So you know, you've got clickbait news articles,
23:00
Speaker 5: you've got most of us have feed set up so
23:04
Speaker 5: that you're inundated with all these properties that hit your
23:07
Speaker 5: email or your phone even when you're not even thinking
23:10
Speaker 5: about it. And I think that the important thing when
23:13
Speaker 5: you're looking at getting into property investment is that you
23:18
Speaker 5: just think about what you can really afford, and you
23:21
Speaker 5: set parameters around that, and you don't go chasing things
23:25
Speaker 5: that are going to put you in a position where
23:27
Speaker 5: you feel more vulnerable. And you just don't panic as well,
23:29
Speaker 5: because even though you think you have, you know there's
23:34
Speaker 5: a lack of supply at the moment and I have
23:36
Speaker 5: to find something. In reality, you know, there are tens
23:40
Speaker 5: of thousands of houses every year traded across Australia, So
23:43
Speaker 5: we shouldn't feel in a mad panic just right now.
23:47
Speaker 2: I think that's a really good point, and that's something
23:49
Speaker 2: that I really admire about you, is how openly you
23:52
Speaker 2: speak about your own journey, because I feel like that
23:55
Speaker 2: is so relatable, especially to our community. Like you mentioned
23:59
Speaker 2: it before, like you've got and through a divorce, you
24:00
Speaker 2: had two small kids. You managed to buy a house
24:03
Speaker 2: on your own, which is no mean feet. It doesn't
24:06
Speaker 2: matter what type of income you have. At the end
24:09
Speaker 2: of the day, being a sole income household, purchasing a
24:13
Speaker 2: home is really hard. If you could go back to
24:16
Speaker 2: just before you did that, do you have any tips
24:19
Speaker 2: and tricks that you wish you had.
24:22
Speaker 5: I think the thing that I'm most pleased about with
24:26
Speaker 5: my personal journey, and it's important to your listener base.
24:31
Speaker 5: I think because you've got such a strong female listener base,
24:35
Speaker 5: is that you hear a lot of advice when you
24:36
Speaker 5: have kids about how having children and pursuing your career
24:42
Speaker 5: are at odds with one another. And I certainly when
24:44
Speaker 5: I had young kids, I spent a lot of time
24:48
Speaker 5: thinking about the impact of being a full time working
24:51
Speaker 5: mum on my two little boys, and I really grappled
24:54
Speaker 5: with what was the right balance, etc. But I can
24:59
Speaker 5: tell you when I I was in the situation of
25:03
Speaker 5: being the sole sort of source of stability for those kids,
25:09
Speaker 5: I was so pleased that at so many times where
25:12
Speaker 5: I could have wound back from my career, I actually
25:14
Speaker 5: lent in and I lent into being in a position
25:19
Speaker 5: of having a good job, good career prospects, etc. Because
25:23
Speaker 5: then when the time came, I was able to provide
25:26
Speaker 5: for my kids and provide.
25:27
Speaker 4: For myself as well.
25:28
Speaker 5: So one of the things I'd say to your community is,
25:32
Speaker 5: you know, for the moms out there that are struggling
25:34
Speaker 5: with the questions about, you know, should I feel guilty
25:37
Speaker 5: about pursuing my career or does financial stability matter versus
25:42
Speaker 5: being there at.
25:43
Speaker 4: Every single moment of every single day with the kids.
25:46
Speaker 5: I openly encourage all the women that I work with
25:50
Speaker 5: to make sure that they're putting their financial stability really
25:53
Speaker 5: at the heart of what they're doing, because your kids
25:55
Speaker 5: are better off if you have financial stability, and you
25:58
Speaker 5: can make better choices if you've got options. And so,
26:03
Speaker 5: while that doesn't directly answer your question about what it
26:06
Speaker 5: felt like or what my tips were for myself, I
26:10
Speaker 5: think that my number one tip for the women in
26:12
Speaker 5: your community is to stay the course with believing that
26:18
Speaker 5: financial stability matters. And also just money sounds complex, you know,
26:24
Speaker 5: finance sounds complex, and there is also a whole industry
26:29
Speaker 5: around making it sound complex so that people feel that
26:31
Speaker 5: they can't do things without you know, lots and lots
26:35
Speaker 5: of advice around them, but there's lots of ways to
26:39
Speaker 5: educate yourself. You know, Victoria, your book is fantastic. I've
26:42
Speaker 5: bought it for a whole bunch of people, and we've
26:44
Speaker 5: sent it out to all the stuff.
26:44
Speaker 2: I really did, you really really did. I was the
26:48
Speaker 2: one who fulfilled that and signed the books, and there
26:51
Speaker 2: was a lot of them, and I'm very very grateful
26:54
Speaker 2: for that. Philiper. Whenni, you're writing your book, because like,
26:56
Speaker 2: I want a book on your journey, I want all
26:58
Speaker 2: your tips and tricks to be told to lean in
27:01
Speaker 2: when we feel like we shouldn't be, Like, I want
27:03
Speaker 2: all of this wrapped up with a really beautiful cover.
27:07
Speaker 2: Got a publisher? Can you introduce you?
27:10
Speaker 5: Look, I think that when I look at the people
27:12
Speaker 5: that I've learned from in my career, they are people
27:15
Speaker 5: who make mistakes and they get it wrong, but they're
27:18
Speaker 5: willing to share that. And you know, there's so many,
27:22
Speaker 5: so many people who are successful in life, and you know,
27:27
Speaker 5: they lay out the playbook of I did this amazing thing,
27:30
Speaker 5: then I did that amazing thing, and the following year,
27:32
Speaker 5: I did another amazing thing. And that's not how life
27:35
Speaker 5: pans out. Life pans out usually with trying some stuff,
27:39
Speaker 5: stumbling a bit, picking yourself up, trying something else, succeeding
27:43
Speaker 5: there than the next thing you try you get knocked down.
27:46
Speaker 5: And there is a lot to be said for just
27:47
Speaker 5: getting up, dusting yourself off, and keeping on going.
27:51
Speaker 4: And I think it's the same with personal finances.
27:54
Speaker 5: That you know, you set yourself a three month goal,
27:56
Speaker 5: and eight times out of ten you don't achieve goal
28:00
Speaker 5: because for some reason something happens, you fall off the
28:03
Speaker 5: wag and you accidentally buy that thing that you shouldn't
28:05
Speaker 5: have bought.
28:06
Speaker 4: But at least we've all been there. Yeah, we'll been there, right,
28:09
Speaker 4: I've all been there.
28:10
Speaker 5: But at least if you set yourself a goal and
28:11
Speaker 5: you work towards it, even if you only get eighty
28:13
Speaker 5: percent of the way there, you're better off than if
28:15
Speaker 5: you've never set the goal at all. And that's why
28:17
Speaker 5: I like what you guys do, which is, you know,
28:19
Speaker 5: you encourage people to make a plan, do their best
28:23
Speaker 5: to stick to the plan, and if they don't stick
28:25
Speaker 5: to it, it doesn't matter.
28:26
Speaker 4: Just get up and keep going.
28:28
Speaker 2: I like that, and I think that that's one of
28:30
Speaker 2: the things that I really admire about people, and it's
28:33
Speaker 2: the thing that I've noticed I'm really drawn towards when
28:36
Speaker 2: looking at, you know, people that I aspire to be like,
28:39
Speaker 2: or people that I look towards who have really good
28:41
Speaker 2: leadership skills. It's not that they're perfect. It's that they
28:44
Speaker 2: usually have a really really good level of grit. They're
28:47
Speaker 2: willing to get up when things are hard. They're willing
28:50
Speaker 2: to try and try and try again. It's not because
28:54
Speaker 2: they're the most intelligent people in the world. It's not
28:56
Speaker 2: because they're the prettiest or the smartest, or literally any
29:00
Speaker 2: thing est. It's always because they're the grittiest. And I
29:03
Speaker 2: feel like that's one of the things that we can
29:05
Speaker 2: all learn from and we can all take, I guess,
29:08
Speaker 2: into our own personal lives when it comes to saving
29:11
Speaker 2: or investing, or even just getting it together, when it
29:15
Speaker 2: comes to having too many bank accounts or working out
29:17
Speaker 2: what's going on with your super and rolling it all together.
29:21
Speaker 2: It just takes grit. You don't have to be intelligent
29:24
Speaker 2: or you know, the smartest or the funniest. You actually
29:28
Speaker 2: just have to go all right I'm just going to
29:30
Speaker 2: make this work. I'm going to look up how to
29:32
Speaker 2: do it. I'm going to educate myself. I'm going to
29:34
Speaker 2: do it again. And you know, I find it really
29:37
Speaker 2: inspiring knowing where you've come from and what you've gone
29:41
Speaker 2: through to then find out you're the CEO of a bank,
29:44
Speaker 2: like one of the bigger banks in Australia. Like, that's
29:47
Speaker 2: crazy to me to think that your tenacity has taken
29:51
Speaker 2: you this far. Where to next, Philip Art? What are
29:54
Speaker 2: you doing next? What is your bank doing next? How
29:57
Speaker 2: can we all be a part of this journey?
30:01
Speaker 4: Ubank's on a pretty exciting path at the moment.
30:03
Speaker 5: We have just been part of the purchase of one
30:06
Speaker 5: of the really new banks that's been launched in Australia.
30:10
Speaker 5: That's a bank called eighty six four hundred, which is
30:13
Speaker 5: a name that's a little bit hard to remember, but
30:16
Speaker 5: it stands for.
30:16
Speaker 2: The Numbies on the Money Knows because we worked with
30:19
Speaker 2: them in our very second season of the podcast. Eighty
30:22
Speaker 2: six four hundred because that's how many seconds are in
30:25
Speaker 2: a day, right.
30:26
Speaker 4: That's exactly right.
30:27
Speaker 5: So U Bank is merging with eighty six four hundred,
30:30
Speaker 5: which means that we will move on to incredible new
30:34
Speaker 5: technology that the team has built, and there's a really
30:38
Speaker 5: great team on both sides that are coming together. The
30:41
Speaker 5: thing that makes U Bank and eighty six one hundred
30:44
Speaker 5: really compatible is that both teams and both organizations are
30:48
Speaker 5: passionate about bringing incredible value to customers, so that customers
30:53
Speaker 5: are getting absolute bang for their buck.
30:55
Speaker 4: Through their banking and through their home loans as well.
30:58
Speaker 5: So we're on a good journey. It's pretty exciting at
31:01
Speaker 5: the moment. And yeah, there's plenty of your listener base
31:06
Speaker 5: who bank with us and hoping to be able to throw.
31:10
Speaker 4: Open the door to more in the future.
31:13
Speaker 2: I hope so, because I feel like it's really aligned
31:15
Speaker 2: to our values and our purpose and exactly what we
31:18
Speaker 2: want to do. And I know that it makes me
31:21
Speaker 2: feel more motivated just knowing even in the background that
31:25
Speaker 2: the people I'm working with or you know, engage with,
31:28
Speaker 2: are on my team and are working towards similar goals.
31:31
Speaker 2: And you know, they've bought a family home, so they've
31:33
Speaker 2: been through that, so they know what that's like, and
31:36
Speaker 2: they know what, you know, facilities I might need in
31:38
Speaker 2: the future with my mortgage. I just think it's so
31:41
Speaker 2: smart and you bank. Are literally so lucky to have you.
31:44
Speaker 2: I know we keep talking and I'm so grateful to
31:47
Speaker 2: have been able to have this opportunity to have a
31:50
Speaker 2: chat with you. But I would love to know, as
31:53
Speaker 2: the CEO of a bank, what are your top three
31:56
Speaker 2: finance tips?
31:59
Speaker 5: Top three finans It's tips from me as much from
32:03
Speaker 5: my personal life as being CEO of the bank, because
32:07
Speaker 5: I tend to find that what works for myself is
32:10
Speaker 5: a decent start. So tip number one, I would say,
32:14
Speaker 5: don't be intimidated by finances. So it's money, that's all
32:19
Speaker 5: it is. There shouldn't be anything intimidating. There's plenty of
32:22
Speaker 5: books you can read. Your one is the best place
32:25
Speaker 5: to start Victoria, but don't let anyone make you feel
32:28
Speaker 5: like you're not smart enough to take control of your money.
32:32
Speaker 5: And the thing linked to that as well is, particularly
32:34
Speaker 5: as you've got a big female listener base, stay in
32:38
Speaker 5: control of your money. So it's really important that you're
32:41
Speaker 5: thinking really hard about what you manage yourself. If you're
32:46
Speaker 5: in a partnership, be really thoughtful about making sure that
32:49
Speaker 5: you continue to be in the driver's seat of your
32:52
Speaker 5: own money so that you can make sure that you
32:55
Speaker 5: are always well placed to take care of yourself if
32:58
Speaker 5: the need arises. Next tip would be, you know, it's
33:02
Speaker 5: about lifestyle creep. So if you are hanging out with
33:06
Speaker 5: people who are in a very different financial position to yourself,
33:11
Speaker 5: you can very easily find that in an effort to
33:14
Speaker 5: keep up with the people around you, you're actually depleting
33:18
Speaker 5: your savings and you're not getting ahead because you're going
33:20
Speaker 5: out to dinner. Well not at the moment because we're
33:22
Speaker 5: in COVID, but you're spending money you don't have.
33:24
Speaker 2: You used to know that, like maybe soon, Like I
33:27
Speaker 2: don't know how it's going in New South Wales, but
33:30
Speaker 2: here in Victoria we've been told that this is the
33:32
Speaker 2: lasted lockdown will ever go through, which means we'll probably
33:35
Speaker 2: have a lot more dinners in our future. So still
33:38
Speaker 2: very relevant commentary exactly, So lifestyle creep, be thoughtful about.
33:45
Speaker 4: You know, the costs that you have in your life.
33:48
Speaker 5: Are you're living in a place that actually it's a
33:52
Speaker 5: nice place, but it's pushing you to the limits of
33:54
Speaker 5: what you can afford. Are you're hanging out with people
33:56
Speaker 5: who actually have a really different income to you, and
34:00
Speaker 5: so you're finding that they're able to save, but you
34:02
Speaker 5: aren't because of the lifestyle keeping up with the Jones.
34:06
Speaker 5: And so that's the second thing. And the third thing
34:09
Speaker 5: is really about automating. So you know, put your savings
34:12
Speaker 5: plan on automation. If you get a pay rise, don't
34:16
Speaker 5: let your costs and your expenses just creep up with
34:19
Speaker 5: the pay rise. So try to lock yourself in to
34:23
Speaker 5: a certain amount of spending and hold it for a
34:26
Speaker 5: couple of years, because in a couple of years we
34:28
Speaker 5: all tend to get a little bit of pay rise
34:30
Speaker 5: or a little bit of extra money in And if
34:32
Speaker 5: you cannot inflate your lifestyle, that puts you in a
34:34
Speaker 5: good position.
34:35
Speaker 2: You're in the perfect position to have such impactful change.
34:39
Speaker 2: And the fact that you are in the driver's seat
34:42
Speaker 2: of such a large bank, like watching it from the sidelines,
34:45
Speaker 2: knowing that you guys have just acquired eighty six four hundred,
34:48
Speaker 2: like we are so excited to watch the future of
34:51
Speaker 2: you guys and what you create. And I have no
34:54
Speaker 2: doubt ten years from now will just be talking about
34:57
Speaker 2: all of the good work that PHILIPA did. Well.
35:00
Speaker 4: Look, I've been following I think Victoria.
35:02
Speaker 5: I reached out to you a number of months back
35:05
Speaker 5: I really admire what you're doing. I think that there
35:08
Speaker 5: is such an important space for women helping other women
35:11
Speaker 5: in all aspects of life, but particularly around financial empowerment.
35:17
Speaker 5: For many, many reasons, women are always better off if
35:20
Speaker 5: they have financial stability. Their children are better off, their
35:24
Speaker 5: communities are better off, their aging parents are better off.
35:28
Speaker 5: The more that we can do to help women take
35:30
Speaker 5: control of their money and their financial future, the better
35:34
Speaker 5: things go. So what you're doing is wonderful. I'm glad
35:36
Speaker 5: to be a part of it, and I think you
35:38
Speaker 5: guys are.
35:38
Speaker 2: Great, Tony. That was an epic interview. I loved every
35:46
Speaker 2: second of that, and I feel like our community is
35:49
Speaker 2: going to absorb it and love it as well, and
35:51
Speaker 2: hopefully love her just a little bit more, because who
35:54
Speaker 2: doesn't love a female in a leadership position where she
35:57
Speaker 2: can actually make tangible change? Is that not all?
36:00
Speaker 3: It's our favorite thing to see. And you Bank have
36:03
Speaker 3: actually been so generous with their time. We've interviewed them
36:06
Speaker 3: before over on the Property Playbook. So if you want
36:09
Speaker 3: to hear Ubank chat to us about, you know, mortgage
36:11
Speaker 3: myth busting, you're going to absolutely love it. And that's
36:14
Speaker 3: over on the Property Playbook.
36:15
Speaker 2: Feed.
36:16
Speaker 3: I assume that everybody that's listening to this also subscribes
36:19
Speaker 3: to that, but we just pop that in just to
36:20
Speaker 3: make sure.
36:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like it's not just She's on the money. We
36:23
Speaker 2: actually have two other podcasts which so many people are like, oh, hey,
36:27
Speaker 2: I saw a post and she's on the money. The
36:28
Speaker 2: other day that was like, hey, any small business owners
36:31
Speaker 2: here as well, and she's on the money. I was like, hey,
36:32
Speaker 2: did you know we have an entire community for you guys? Anyway,
36:36
Speaker 2: I think that that would be really fun if you
36:38
Speaker 2: are looking to turbocharge your savings or learn more about
36:41
Speaker 2: the property journey. The Property Playbook is absolutely built for you,
36:44
Speaker 2: my friends, So hop on over there and check it out.
36:47
Speaker 2: But as always, that is all we have time for today.
36:51
Speaker 2: So just before we head off, we'd like to acknowledge
36:53
Speaker 2: and pay our respects to Australia's Aboriginal and tourist Rait
36:57
Speaker 2: Islander people's. They're the traditional custodians lands, the waterways and
37:01
Speaker 2: the skies all across Australia. We thank you for sharing,
37:05
Speaker 2: for caring for the land on which we are able
37:07
Speaker 2: to learn. We pay respects to elders past and present,
37:11
Speaker 2: and we share our friendship and our kindness.
37:14
Speaker 3: The advice shared on Shees on the Money is generally
37:16
Speaker 3: nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's on
37:20
Speaker 3: the Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not
37:23
Speaker 3: be relied upon to make an investment or any financial decision.
37:27
Speaker 3: And we promise that Miss Victoria Divine is an authorized
37:30
Speaker 3: representative of that's you. And did you know that you're
37:33
Speaker 3: an authorized representative of Australia Pacific Funds Management Proprietary Limited
37:37
Speaker 3: ABM three four one three two four six three two
37:39
Speaker 3: five seven AFSL three three nine one five one.
37:41
Speaker 2: I actually knew that. And I know all those numbers
37:44
Speaker 2: because whenever we do advice, I have to write those
37:46
Speaker 2: numbers on everything. They're like kind of let my phone number,
37:50
Speaker 2: so I know them back to front, all way around.
37:52
Speaker 2: Like That's why sometimes at the end of pods and
37:54
Speaker 2: I just butt in and say, hey Tony, I know
37:56
Speaker 2: this too, just like.
37:57
Speaker 3: Flex just a flex, Yeah, fair enough.
38:00
Speaker 2: I've got finances.
38:01
Speaker 3: Cool guys, We hope you love this bonus episode, but
38:04
Speaker 3: we'll catch you Monday.
38:05
Speaker 2: See your later, brands. Hi