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Signe Holm - Driving Co-Sell Success with Microsoft · Partnerships Unraveled

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Partnerships Underwell, the podcast where we underval the mysteries about channels and partnerships on a weekly basis.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Effe and I'm excited to introduce our guest, Cena.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Cina, how are you doing?
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: I am doing very well.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's an amazing Friday.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Everything's good.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: It is Friday, and I also love your background as well.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's so good to see some colors, especially today.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's been so foggy and dark outside.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of so nice to see some color.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: And this background actually always, you know, is an icebreaker because a lot of people comment on it because it has so many colors.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: But I love colors.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: It reflects my personality a little bit.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love the jacket as well, the blue.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: So see well.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, uh, Cena, for those who may not be familiar with who you are, could you give us an introduction, tell us who you are, where you come from?
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously, my name is Cine.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: I uh work for Microsoft and I have been doing that for um 13 years now, I believe it is.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the past six, seven years, I've been working with um ISV partners in one format or another.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um started in our partner organization working with um ISVs, but more for our uh mid-segment, then moved into being an enterprise channel manager, working both in uh industry, retail, but also with um Azure directly.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: All you know, ISVs that were on Azure were interesting at that point.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Then I moved into being a partner development manager with working with some of our local ISVs.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: And today I work as a partner solution sales manager, working with our global ISVs and try to help them sell to the Danish enterprise customers.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: We have a lot of ISVs listening to us that are, you know, working with partners or they want to, you know, develop that relationship with uh Microsoft, kind of learn how to better upsell.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really excited for this conversation.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: And correct me if I'm wrong, Sina, but you've started Microsoft fresh out of college.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: It was your first job and you've been there for 12 years.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: How has that been journey like for you?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: What kept you there for so long?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: So you're completely right.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: Normally I say I was born and raised in Microsoft because I don't know what the world looks like outside of Microsoft.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, it's not the same company as it was 12 years ago, and that's probably the reason why I've stayed.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: I like the fast pace.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: I like that we are front runners when it comes to technology.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: And to be honest, I love working with partners.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, I always wanted to be part of startups or or, you know, smaller companies.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not part of that.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm part of a global uh global company, but I get that feeling working with some of our ISVs.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really amazing.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you've been uh recommended to us by one of our previous guests, Rosmus, who is the CEO of ZenSai.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you manage Zensai, you know, you supported their growth from the Microsoft side.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and you know, ZenSai is, you know, they're growing really fast, they're a fast-growing startup, but they're quite different than I imagine, than for you to manage ZenSai and to manage a larger player such as Adobe and Snowflake.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: I want to kind of get into the differences of how you see um, you know, what is it like for you managing organizations at a different stage of their uh growth curve?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you can say that those partners that I'm managing today, they are, you know, in the very top, they are completely developed, which also means that I'm not really supporting them in that aspect.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm supporting them in connecting with the Danish market and selling that uh to the Danish market.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, Microsoft are also um launching the marketplace a couple of years back, but it's still new to some customers and to some partners as well, even the global ones.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: So we're also trying to, you know, make the part that make the uh both the local and the global partners uh sell through the markets marketplace.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: I imagine both to be you know quite different, but also still very challenging and enjoyable in different aspects.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, when we had a conversation before Cena, you really iterated, you know, talked about the importance of seller-to-seller alignment.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: I know this is a thing that also, you know, on leaders' minds on the ISV side as well.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: How do we kind of build that seller-to-seller alignment?
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, can you walk us through from your perspective what a great call-cell motion actually looks like?
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we've been, I've been trying a lot of things during my uh my time at Microsoft, and some things work and some things don't work.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the bigger groups where a partner are talking, you know, without having concrete opportunities, it's it rarely works.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: But sitting down with an opportunity that the partner actually brought to Microsoft, but building success around that opportunity will most likely stick with our sellers more so that when they go to another customer, they will keep that uh opportunity and that partner in mind.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where you know the magic actually happens.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: But of course, there's a huge difference from the smaller uh startups to the bigger ones because with the smaller ISVs, Microsoft has another presence, another brand with the customers.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: So going with the seller-to-seller alignment, but also going to the customers together, branding that ISV together with Microsoft is actually also quite powerful.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I imagine to kind of tell that better together, that alignment aligned story is so important.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: And you you kind of talked about, you know, once uh rep sees a deal close, I feel like getting that first uh closure is challenging.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: But once that happens, then uh that's that's where kind of the next step begins.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because once that happens, the the solution stays in the in the seller's mind uh much better, and it's easier to call sell the next time.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: How do you kind of help partners to get to that first win?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um trust is extremely important.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, with some of the bigger ones, we are at some point competitors as well.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: But keeping in mind for our sales rep that it's a matter of winning the platform, not the product.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: As long as things run on Azure, then you know, we gain something from it.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: But building trust together is super important, and that's not something that happens, you know, after one meeting.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it's even more difficult with the global ones because then you have a sales rep sitting maybe in another country, and building trust on a teams meeting is just different than when you can sit down in a meeting room looking each other in the eyes and then talk a little bit, you know, about things that are not necessarily business related as well.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that's something that we're really trying to do.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's yeah, sometimes it can be challenging.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I can imagine.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: I I love in this podcast, we always like the the the the importance of trust always comes up with partnerships and channel.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I I love that you you kind of started speaking about as well.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned, you know, being there in person, showing up, uh, but also you know, spending time a little bit to talk about you know things outside of work that really helps you build trust.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is there any other kind of approaches, tips, or tricks that you have in your book to kind of help build that trust?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: I also imagine that you kind of uh lean on the the brand trust, like the brand of Microsoft as well, because it's such a reputable company that everyone knows.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um sure, we we do that towards the partners, of course, but with the big with the bigger global ones, it's not you know as important as it is with with some of the the more local ones.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: But again, you know, we can sit down on a one-on-one motion, but that's not really scalable.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: What we also sometimes do is book meetings with some of our sales reps, getting everybody together in the room.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: The global ISVs are developing really fast as well.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, a partner like uh ServiceNow, they're not just a ticketing system, they do a lot with AI and automation, getting our sales reps to change their mindset around what our ISV partners can actually do for their customers.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then maybe doing um, you know, uh use cases as well that they can copy and paste directly to their customers as well.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's more scalable.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I imagine also a lot of the time you spend is kind of running enablement sessions uh with these ISVs, their sellers.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: You also talked about you know, lunch and learn solution overviews, these kind of things to build that trust and also kind of align on the value and why we're doing uh this partnership.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe what's your advice to partners on also how to make these, you know, launch and learn or solution overview sessions to really count with Microsoft?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Again, you know, proving that you do have presence in the market is always good.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Having use cases that are present within that market.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we can do enablement sessions for our cloud and AI team where we hit a lot broader, but we can also do it on a more um industry-based level, so that we, for example, do it with FSI or directly to retail, and then having uh cases that are directly into that industry.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: But it's really important that it's not, you know, this is Denmark.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: We don't need a case from the US because that market is so much different, and our sales reps have more difficulties relating to wins like that.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: I I I love you you touched upon that because we also kind of this is this is something that I'm really passionate about, that importance of localization.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because oftentimes, you know, when companies they have their headquarters in the US and they think that, you know, whatever they do, they send it abroad and they think that people are just gonna um react in the same way that they do in the US.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of times also, you know, here at Chen X, we're talking to a lot of partners in the Netherlands, in Europe, you know, UK, even in UK, right?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same language, but sometimes like partners will get back to us and be like, this sounds quite American.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: This like this is not how we would say it around here.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I think this is something really important for I think everyone listening to you know, reading about if you're if you're in the US, kind of go out there, talk with like partners around the world and see how they react to maybe your campaigns, your messaging, uh, and all that.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's so different, it's quite different.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: It is different, it's so different in the US.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we're also getting material around marketplace directly from the US, and I look at it and it's like 80 slides of marketing things, but then I pick you know a little bit of it and then I uh make it a little more friendly for the Danish customers.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, but it's yeah, you gotta know your market.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I think like it's it's kind of like maybe good to have an overview.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: You have a lot and you can kind of uh distill it into something that fits more to your local region.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, maybe a couple last questions for Isina.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: The maybe one thing that I want to ask for our audience, for all the ISVs listening to us, is what's one piece of advice you'd give to ISVs looking to co-sell more effectively with Microsoft?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Get your solution on marketplace.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, right now it's all about marketplace, and it can be challenging if you're not aware of what the marketplace is, how it works.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: But we're really trying to simplify that first sale, uh, both from the customer side and from the partner side, so that they get uh through the first sale and we try to take notes what was difficult, is there something we can change?
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, is something not really working the way it should?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, looking into the roadmap as well, what is actually coming of features, of integrations.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: But the marketplace is definitely a place to be, not only to co-sell with Microsoft, but there's also a possibility to get a whole new sales channel and actually, you know, get more deals out there with the marketplace.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, amazing.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's crazy how fast, you know, marketplaces have grown, you know, how much Microsoft has grown over the last years, and I'm really excited to see where it's going to where it's headed in the next few years.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I think you have a really exciting and interesting job, and thank you so much for joining us.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: My last question to you, Cine, is uh, you know, we always end the episode by asking our guests to invite, nominate the next guest on the podcast.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: Who do you have in mind?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: So uh Rasmus recommended me.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Rasmus has a lot of energy.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think I have a lot of energy as well.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: You definitely do.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I want to recommend someone who's also energetic.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I think Mari Lundevel from Rubrik would be a really good uh addition to this podcast.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: She has energy and she has great insights into um, you know, partnerships and how to work with Microsoft as well.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Even the uh enablement session that they did with us that was an amazing session that she probably can talk a lot more about that uh other ISVs out there would benefit from.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Murray, if you're listening, I'll be reaching out to you and hope we can get you on a podcast to talk about the amazing enablement session you did.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and Cinnan, once again, thank you so much for joining us.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: It was a really valuable, important conversation.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: And see you in the next episode.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: See you, thank you.