Latest / The Complete Agent - The Podcast For Premium Real Estate Agents / 120. How North Wall Raised Fees And Changed Their Entire Agency Ft. Craig Thompson
Transcript
- speaker-0: Welcome to another episode of the Complete Agent Podcast, where each week we get together to talk all things Estates Agency. My name is Dave Warburton. As ever, I am joined by Ian Story and Michelle. And today, in fact, with no JK. We've no JK today, so it's going to be a much better podcast than usual. Nobody's getting unpacked, which is phenomenal. And it might just sit inside 30 minutes. So exciting times. But we've also got a very special guest today, Mr. Craig Thompson. Craig, thanks for coming on, mate. speaker-1: Thanks for having me. Hello? speaker-0: We will get an introduction from yourself in just a moment, but first let's do the usual tradition and find out where everybody's weak's been. Michelle, let's start with you. speaker-2: Well, we've got our quarterly mastermind coming up next week. So it has been finalizing the prep and the presentations. There's some absolute gold coming next week. So there are sections that are focusing on the pricing strategy conversation that happens in the front room and the fee conversation. So I know the members are going to find that really, really valuable. There's also some mindset stuff, so changing your narrative and changing your outcome. And we've also got some guests coming in to impart some of their specialist wisdom for the members. So it's full packed and can't wait. So my week has been all about that. speaker-0: Fantastic. And what about you, Ian? speaker-3: Really, really busy over at Stories. ⁓ we we are rammed with valuations. So I've there's no appointments now available in mine or Matt's diary for the rest of June. ⁓ going into the first week in July. Our new ⁓ valuer, Vicky, started last week. ⁓ so far so good. Really she's really very impressive and she's out by herself on her own vals from next week. I think she's already got four booked. So that's really exciting in terms of the business growth. ⁓ we've had four gold dust listings since the last podcast, all at 2%, for ⁓ two sales agreed. ⁓ and we had an offer yesterday on one that we've got on at 1.9 mil that's been on the market for about a month, six weeks, something that. So that's good. Loads of really great valves. I mean, I'm going to two beauties later on, one that's about a mil. on with another agent already needs a bit of a price change. And another one that's probably one point five in a really desirable village. ⁓ and we've got a shoot a shoot today, but the bloody weather at the minute, I'm I'm sure you guys are all the same. For shoots is just an absolute fucking nightmare. Because you you get ten minutes of glorious sunshine and then you get twenty minutes of rain. Then you get to and it's just we're in and out all all the time trying to get the right shots. Can't get the drone up 'cause it's too windy above the house. And so get getting the shoots done and then just getting the shoots booked in. It's difficult. Like, even though we've got in-house photographer, in-house videographer, and we still outsource a bit, you know, our next availability really for a full shoot now is probably the middle of July. So it's just crazy. So we're getting people getting a bit pissed off because they don't want to wait and we're trying to juggle doing externals first to keep them happy. And we have one that we were given the go-ahead on last week or the week before in a really good village that's sort of nine hundred and fifty grand. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-3: just over an acre plot, needs a bit of work. So we said to them, Look, the next shoot's gonna be early July, but what we'll do is we'll come ⁓ next week, which was yesterday, do some social media content and some external photos. So we turned up, it was raining, then it then it stopped raining. So we wanted to get some photos done, did a preview ⁓ no, we did a a live video and the reel. The reel hasn't gone out yet though. We did the live video. We put three viewings on it yesterday. ⁓ this is an 900 grand, 2% listing, the three proceedable viewings straight away. We haven't even done the photos or videos yet. So that pre-launch ⁓ you know side of things is is is absolutely superb. So if you can really commit to that and execute it, I think it can bring you some easy wins. But overall, great. Nutsford, as as you know, we're opening in Nutsford. So me and Matt, mainly Matt, but I'm gonna help Matt support Matt. ⁓ we've done 15 community interviews there already. ⁓ filmed over the course of the last few days. ⁓ we've got a great valuation booked already there, one point two five, only agent in, because they viewed one of ours and Meg has wowed them with her service on the phone. so good, exciting times. no complaints from me currently. Craig, how's your week been? speaker-1: Good. Last week was a lot busier than we managed to retire about About sixty five, seventy grands worth of of fees over the course of the week last week, which was great. And a lot of that was stock at the higher end that had been a little bit slow to move, so it was really good to get that get that away. This week's been a little bit quieter. I think we have got instructions this week. ⁓ got one at one point five, one at one point two, but they're they're probably not gonna come on till later on in the year. They're not quite ready to come on yet. One of them with the only agent out, another one. want a relative that worked for for a rival branch or a local branch, they went in to value it and they said, Well, we're not the right agent for you. We're gonna we recommend North Hall come in, which was absolutely brilliant. It shows that what we're trying to do is is being recognised and people are taking notes, which is great. ⁓ middle bit of the market's probably suffering a little bit for us, I would say. We probably haven't got as many valuations in as as I would like, but, you know, we're we're we're doing the work to to get the diary full so it'll come. speaker-3: Yeah. Yeah it always comes back. ⁓ maybe you should introduce yourself, Craig, for our listeners and our viewers. speaker-0: Good good of you to take over that ear and just get it completely out of sync, not what we discussed before. speaker-3: No, it's not fun. speaker-1: Can do okay. So Craig from Northwall, so I've been member of how long have how long have we been members of TCA now? Is it coming up a year? Yeah. Tried to get in for a bit longer than that. Yeah. But we were we were blocked out, but now we're in. ⁓ our agency, so we are based in Crosby, just outside Liverpool. We've been going about five years. Originally it was just me and Kate, my wife. Kate's been an agent for twenty one years, unbelievable lister. speaker-0: Yeah, it will be. speaker-1: But she came from Stackham High, sell and cheap agency background. ⁓ my sort of career has been in around music and marketing and events and working with brands. And I kind of fell into property through investing in property. And then loads of things coalesced, lockdown, let's just have have a go ourselves, really. And straight away I could see that the bar to entry was quite low and Well we went and positioned ourselves sort of slightly above what everybody else was doing, but nowhere where we are now. I think I think Kate thought it was going to be a challenge for us to even get one percent as a new agent back in 2021. and then just since then we've just been looking to elevate and elevate and elevate and sort of move up. Move ⁓ move up, maybe that's is that the right is that the right term? We we want to be focused on the upper quartile really. So we don't want to say no to the to to everything, but we want to be really focused on working with sellers. who really value what agents who take a proper approach do. speaker-0: And how how have you found that transition, Craig? Yeah. speaker-1: Tough. I think we had we had choice to make ⁓ when we when we started to sort really doubled down on this approach and that that was we can scale down and rebuild and consolidate and we would have probably lost a couple of team members to do that, or we can do it more slowly and glide up. And where where we are, a bit like you, Dave, we're we're not blessed with loads of high value properties. There are pockets of it that are spread about. So we've had to kind of carry on saving that middle part of the market. We've raised our floor a little bit, so we we tend not to go to stuff that's sort of that bottom quartile anymore. and that sort of stuff doesn't come to us anyway. And now for us it's about tapping into the other high value pockets in and around where we are, in sort of Merseyside and West Lancashire. speaker-2: I'm always really interested because I know we've been in the drug tea industry a long time, but when somebody comes in quite fresh, what were your first impressions of the industry when you entered it? speaker-1: ⁓ I thought I'm I don't know where to start with that 'cause I thought I didn't think any of it was very good, really. I think it was really difficult from a customer service point of view when I was buying and selling, when we was we sort of started off investing, I knew that agents really weren't interested in in servicing people properly. You could tell it was just cast as many rods as you can and see see what bites, you know, it was terrible getting a call back. So really early on we committed to returning every missed call, not just returning the message, we returned every call. So customer service has always been dead important. But marketing, especially coming from a kind of marketing background. Like people used to say like any any dickhead can can I s can I say dickhead on this? I've said it Yeah. And any dickhead speaker-0: We call Ian every week. speaker-1: any dickhead with a phone can can take a picture and that's all everybody was doing. They were just using their phones and taking really bad photos. So we committed to professional photography right from the off, which sounds doesn't sound a lot now. But five years ago we were the only agent in our area using professional photographers. Now I think that a load of agents have caught up with that and they think that just using professional photography alone is enough. But now it's any dickhead can take a photo with a professional. use a professional photographer. It's what they do with that that counts. It's it's the strategy, it's the campaign. It's not just broadcasting it out there and hoping for the best, just with a better photo. speaker-0: Yeah, a hundred percent. It's interesting you say that, Craig. I was speaking to a guy last night, I was talking to Michelle and Ian before we came on about talking about a fee, you know, I'm having a fee battle with this guy almost. ⁓ and one of his comments was that the other agent has said they can do nighttime shots, they can do a video and all that sort of stuff, basically saying that if they can do it as well, well, how does it mean that you can charge more? Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: As if like they do it every day. It's always funny. I mean, JK drops some gold in the group when it when he sees a crap, Twilight or something. You know, when somebody says they can do a twilight and then they've just gone out in front of the house and turn the lights on a photo or something. I think people who do it every day consistently it is is worlds apart to somebody who just plays at it and does the odd one. speaker-1: Like if you're just doing a video tour or a presenter led or whatever it is just because that's what the competition are doing, you don't really understand why you're doing it. You you just think that that's the benchmark. You've got to be able to show our home lips, haven't you? And I think I think if you're just copying rather than really understanding the reason and the purpose for doing it, then you're never going to quite get it right. speaker-0: I agree. I mean I think especially on video in particular. ⁓ I think you know, s a lot of people still don't do presenter led format because they're not comfortable. And I I I I do think some some people are just not not right for it. I get that. But you y you to to get over your fear and actually learn the craft will elevate your career tenfold, in my opinion. You'll be able to build your personal brand within your business brand and become the person of choice. I always say to clients most agents will put a video on now and it might even look quite funky with a bit of music playing over the top. But it's not doing anything more than a photograph would. It's just floating around the house and it's what is it doing? It's not doing anything other than what I can see on a photograph. In fact, it's probably worse. It's boring. I lose ⁓ you know, I lose interest after ten, fifteen, twenty seconds where it might be. Whereas if you've got somebody who can confidently present on camera in front of you and showcase the lifestyle that that house offers, then it completely changes the narrative and actually you can draw in more buyers. ⁓ and I think from a seller's perspective they need that. But from a value's perspective and ⁓ a you know a s ⁓ an agent's perspective trying to win business, it's just such a phenomenal way to stand out because they they need you and not Northwall. You know, they need me, not Burton James. They Ian not Stories. And and it's it's really important, I think, that people affect that if they can and just have a go or find somebody that will. speaker-1: Definitely. I I think in internally for us as well. So we've got including Kate, we've got five listeners now. And Kate is the way we see it is we've kind of got three tiers. We've got the the two newer ones who have joined us from other agencies who we're kind of you know, knocking bad habits out of them and introducing them to how we approach agency. And then we've got the sort of middle tier who are performing, who no understand what it is that we're trying to do. Conversion rates where it needs to be, the fees are where they need to be. And then you've got Kate, who's that top tier, whose diary gets whose diary gets filled because of who she is, because she's become so synonymous with that patch. People want to work with her. And once they get once they get to that level, once they've built their brand to that same level, brilliant. That that we've cracked that patch then, we can move on to the next one. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-2: ⁓ I know how much you invest in your people. What have you found to be the challenges of getting your valuers up those levels? speaker-1: Predominantly. It's ⁓ it's their it's their confidence, it's the it's the it's sort of psychological barriers that they are thinking they need to get out of their own way a l a little bit. so we we've invested in training and we bring in external trainers like you know, Stephen Brown. We'll bring two or three people to each of the masterminds with you guys and we'll bring that back and we'll we'll bring that back to the team and we'll we'll work with them on a one to one and on a group basis weekly to get them where we think they need to be. But predominantly I think it comes down to how much they want it. Like we we they've got to they've got to put a shift in themselves as well. They can't just turn up and go through the motions. Otherwise they might as well be in any other agency doing five valuations a day for one percent. speaker-2: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And have you found anything that kind of gets people up the levels more quickly or do you think it's a slow burn? You know, what do you think? speaker-1: think it's a slow burn. I think we have to some of them are faster than others, aren't they? Some people are more willing to get in front of the camera, some are more comfortable, some are more natural, some really don't like it. That that for me is the key. It's that it's being it's getting in front of the camera is the it absolutely is the critical point, I think. speaker-2: Yeah, you just kind of have to do it, don't you? And push yourself outside your comfort zone and all of a sudden what was really painful ⁓ is just what you do. speaker-1: Yeah, exactly that, yeah. speaker-0: Yeah, it is great. It's a game changer. It absolutely is. For I mean I mean Ian, you've been doing it for years, I've been doing it for years. It doesn't happen overnight, but once you get your face out there, I can't stress. It's just it's massive. Especially if you combine it with different like strategies that we've talked about, proper social media launching strategies and things like that, regular market updates and all that, you become the face ⁓ of that little area, don't you? And people recognise you as the person to sell homes. speaker-1: That's it. And I I think it you're they need to understand I mean they do because they they're here, but they need reminders sometimes of what our approach delivers. So when we were at the last was it the last Mastermind or the one before when Phil from your team was it Phil? On the phone, really proud of how much you charge, really proud of fee and owning it. And that was a bit of a ⁓ god, maybe we're maybe a little bit embarrassed of how much we charged. Like, well actually should we be? speaker-3: Yeah. speaker-1: Because our outcomes and the results that we get are so much better than the competition because of that approach. So that that's been a bit of a a transition over the last three months as well, is really making sure that people understand how good we are at what we do and be proud of it. speaker-2: I think that's key, you know? And I don't think it's talked about enough in agency or within the business. And I think it's got to be kind of repeated and they've got to be reminded and you know, the results that are achieved, that they've got to really feel them and own them. So I think that's actually a really key point. It's how do you translate your successes as a business so that they, the team actually feel them and they're embedded in them so they can have that confidence. speaker-1: Yeah. Any tips on that? Well welcome welcome, John. ⁓ speaker-2: So I know you've had a very busy day. on. Sorry Dave. speaker-0: I think that once like it there is it's definitely a mindset shift, not just for you as a business owner and for people running it. It what you need I think you need to carry that confidence as well. Like as the leader, you have to carry that confidence. And we get I mean, we've we were an agency that used to charge seven hundred and ninety-nine pounds to sell a bloody house. And when I come back to the office now and I've got ten grand on the board for one house. Honestly, the team are a little bit like, ⁓ Okay. Because we've got used to doing, you know, eighteen, nineteen, twenty grand fees. And even I'm the same. You know, if I if I come back and I've you went to a a three hundred and seventy five thousand pounds, really nice Victorian terrace ⁓ a few weeks ago, it's market ready and I was speaking to her yesterday, she's now ready, she's found another house and she's good on the market, it's two percent plus that. I'm like, it's only it's only seven grand, seven and a half grand that and It's it that it had taken me like ten sales a few years ago. You know, sometimes you've got to check yourself. But now the team are fully embedded with it as well. They they just they're they're quite proud. They get what effort goes into it. You know, I I think especially when you do a shoot day and things like that, y you you really appreciate the efforts that we go to to get that house looking amazing, to get it out there and exposed in the way it should be. You know, we'll we'll we really back ourselves with our customer service because another thing as well is when you go out and see client that's maybe been on the market for some time, it's not always crap marketing. It's the the majority of the time it it's crap communication. And and and I always say to my clients or potential clients when I'm in the living room, ⁓ that one of the reasons that you you'll employ me today is for all the stuff that you can't yet see. And you'll probably have to get feedback from maybe referrals that I can give you. You know, I can give you phone numbers of people that have used us and their experience of the whole journey. 'Cause it's not just what you see on Instagram and Facebook and Right Move and the the quality of the marketing. That can all be good. But if you don't hear from me then for the next six months, then I've I've let you down. So, ⁓ it's everything. And I think that the guys, because we hold them to account and and and everybody wants to achieve a great result, they buy into it as well. They absolutely know that we are worth every penny. ⁓ and I'm and and I'm confident enough walking away now and got it and not getting involved in in fee walls it's just you know, at the we are what we were. speaker-1: Can I ask you a question about that, Dave? How long did it take you to take the rest of the team on that journey? speaker-0: ⁓ I I think do you know what? I don't I don't think it was long to be fair. There was a lot of excitement because we as I said, we'd I remember first increasing our fees to fifteen hundred pounds plus fat and and and getting quite excited about that back in the day. ⁓ but it it it came from for me a well, we we've obviously done two transitions, if if you know my journey. So the first transition was low fixed fee model, which was failing and I was Miserable inside but happy on the outside. You know, I was I was putting on a brave face, but hemorrhaging money in the background, still paying staff and all that sort of stuff, knowing that the business model was broken. So when I fixed that, it meant making some really tough decisions, which was redundancies and things like that. and we we went back to our more traditional estate agency model, but we were still selling the lower end, mid-range, you know, our highest value home back then would have been 500,600 if we were lucky. But we'd we'd I'd changed it to a more percentage based model. The reason I'm giving that context is because I think that they went on that journey with me. You know, the the key members of the team that are still with me today went through all that with me and I think respect what it did to me as well. They know 'cause I've I've been quite open about it now. ⁓ so they got it and realised what what had to change. ⁓ so it did, and we got ourselves into a really brilliant position. in maybe twenty twenty one with our other company, them the mid range brand. ⁓ it released me from the business to go and meet dickheads like Ian on these on these other masterminds and things like that and see how it's really done. You know, I'd at that point I've been in the I'd been in the industry for probably I think it was twelve years. ⁓ but I'm always still learning. So that's another thing. I'm always going to things and learning and trying different things. And they see that. You know, I'm bringing new things to the table. And When I decided to start Burton James and explain what it was all about and what I think we can achieve, it was br it was people were excited about it. ⁓ and then to actually deliver that first instruction and see what goes into it, you know, th there's there was a bit of excitement there for that. ⁓ and it but so I guess there's a lot of context there. But but I would say once Burton James was going, I'd I'd probably say maybe s maybe six to twelve months. that they realized, wow, you can charge really great fees. And a lot of it as well came from built my self belief. Because a part of me was going into these properties at the higher end, still with a mindset of, Well, it's a it's nine hundred grand, so I can charge one percent and get nine thousand pounds. And then you meet people along the way whose average fees like eighteen grand and you're like, No, I'm not having that. I'm no one's paying that. And then you see it and you think, well if they're doing it, why can't I do it? ⁓ and it it t it just took time getting the instructions. ⁓ and once I'd got the instructions and I was really confident walking away from stuff if they weren't going pay my fee, well, it you know, they they they get it as well. So if somebody I I always have a bit of a mourn if someone trying to batter me down on fee and you know, in the office and people people get it, and it's like, well, no, we don't want to do that. They they all they all believe it as well. So I think it can take a bit of time, Craig, but You know, watching your journey and ⁓ you know, obviously you share a lot of your wins and your y your struggles like we all do in the group. But to to see, you know, that feedback that you gave the other day about somebody recommending you 'cause they can't compete on marketing and hearing Kate get her first two percent fee and and all that sort of stuff, that's what people will follow. You know, they'll they'll follow her. And I think that, you know, Ian's team have followed him, my team have followed me. And I think it's just showing leadership really and and doing it that way and I d I I don't lead necessarily through sit-down meetings and ⁓ one to ones religiously and all that sort of stuff. I lead by doing and and I think I've taken them on that journey with me. So yeah, long way of saying probably six to twelve months, mate. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. speaker-2: You are going to be JK. speaker-0: Yeah, Jesus Christ, somebody had to take over. No, I don't know. speaker-2: think it's interesting that whole question because, know, I know from our chats, Craig, that Kate has literally done that journey as well. And you are the strategic one. I've seen, you know, your kind of business plans and there's lots that I can see from your previous business experience that you've put into Northwall. So you have both sides of the coin. You have the leader at the front doing it, and you also have that strategic overview that you bring. So I can't wait. What's your plans? What's going to happen with Northwall in the next five years? speaker-1: So we spent about eighteen months trying to buy another business that ⁓ they had a management portfolio of about a hundred and fifty, hundred no one hundred and thirty units, and they were a low to mid market brand. And the plan was that we were going to run the two brands side by side and save the whole of market, much like Dave does, but with two different brands. We ended up pulling out of that acquisition just before Christmas and kind of doubled down on just making Northwall as good as it was as good as it could be because it was going to be operationally messy to try and fix both businesses at the same time. If that if that was a better business and we were further along then maybe. So now it's all about Northwall. we've got a rebrand and a new site being launched hopefully September that should go live, which is running a little bit behind, but we had to kiss a few frogs with website providers. The brand's there, it's just the website now. And then Over the next five years the plan is to kind of cherry pick those areas around Merseyside, West Lanks, sort of heading east a little bit, ⁓ out towards Nosley, maybe the Wirral. And we're probably gonna do that with a partner agent model, the same as the same as Kate's same way that Kate's working now. So we pinch a little bit from other agents. It's not quite like, you know, EXP or whatever where you're on your own. it w we'll still provide brand, we'll still we'll still invest in marketing and leads, but they will be an owner of their own patch within that. And hope we're hoping we can do that without having loads of offices because I do worry a little bit about kind of operational and cultural drift with with that. So I'd rat I'd rather get people up up the ranks, that sort of top tier agent internally and then that they own their own patch then with the support from a central team. That's the plan. speaker-0: Can I just quickly ask as well, Craig? You mentioned there about your rebrand and stuff. Yeah. ⁓ so what's influenced that? As there are is there a reason that you're going through that process? speaker-1: ⁓ when we first set up, we had a designer who was he was down south, he was great, and he got what we were trying to do at the time, which was be a bit modern, ⁓ sort of direct, a bit irreverent, ⁓ sort of br sort of brand and copy cues were things like Apple's ads in the early eighties and tone of voice was like Nike and all that kind of stuff. When we got the website built, ⁓ it really failed to translate into the website and I've I've never been comfortable with our website. And that's become more of an issue for us as we've started listing high value houses. I just don't think the brand where it's positioned at the moment or or how most people see it on the website is kind of congruent with how we're positioning ourselves when we're in front of the clients. so we're just trying to I don't know, maybe grow up a little bit, I suppose. speaker-0: I think it's the reason I asked the question, you I mean, anybody who listens to the podcast, we bang on about it all the time, about how you look. And I think it takes balls to go back to the drawing board a little bit with your brand. whatever it may be. It might be a it might be a play on words, it might be a complete restructure of the look, it might be a name change. You know, for me, it was a completely new company. And I think it takes it takes a lot of courage to actually go through it and make that decision because It's a lot of it's a lot of hassle. And you're also leaving a behind a little bit what you know. but having been on that journey and watching others do it as well now, it is it can be such a game changer. It it and it and it will definitely improve the profile of the type of client that comes to you. Because, you know, we talk a lot about direct mail and ⁓ social media launches and leads and things like that. Doesn't matter how good the lead magnet is. If they land on something that doesn't resonate with what they're trying to do, they won't call you. They won't contact you. So I I take my hat off to you for that because I think it's a big decision. It's hard. Regardless of how much of a change it is, even if it's only a tweak. You know, JK's just gone through it. And he's getting brilliant ⁓ compliments on his new boards and things like that. And also he feels more confident with it. You know, he's now he's really confident he's got the right brand behind him now. And he he did I don't think he did before. I don't think he'd mind saying that. He might have been eight seventy, eighty percent. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: ⁓ but now he knows he's a he he he sits well in the market, so he's gone through it as well. speaker-3: filtered onto the team you see now, won't it? But now he he really believes in it and he's leading with that that will now filter down to his team. That's right. speaker-0: Right, that's right. speaker-1: We've taken our team on that brand journey with us. We've shown them all the updates as it's evolved over the over the weeks and months with the designers. They can't wait for it. They're absolutely desperate to to get it out there and start using it. Which is that's great to great to see as well. But I I think one of the challenges with that, when you talk about lead magnets, when we talk about the website, I think one of the challenges that I found, and this goes back to an earlier question you asked Michelle about how did I w what did I see in the industry? I think so many suppliers in the industry, service eighty percent of the market who just want business. They just want casting it and book valuation, book valuation, book valuation. They don't there's no scrutiny over quality or price or area or circumstances or whatever whatever it is. And I it's I've found it's been really difficult to find the right partners and suppliers to work with who understand an agent that's trying to take a different approach and really understand their audience that they're trying to attract and stuff. I found that really challenging. speaker-0: Yeah. I think I think you've got you've got a niche a little bit. Yeah. That that's you know, you've got to be I mean, Ian and in is the king of it, of brand stretch. You know, you don't have to necessarily niche in a value, but you you have to niche in your values. Yeah. And ⁓ make it right every single time and be consistent with it. So I I think you know, being all things to all people just you you become Yeah, you you're you're you're just mixing with all the normal, ⁓ crappy agents and I think that standing out is key. speaker-1: Okay. speaker-2: Yeah, I agree. I just want to add in, because one thing that kind of sprung out to me is there's always something when I used to do coaching with businesses that weren't a state agency, there was always a saying that best is the enemy of better. And I think it's fair to say that, you know, you guys are the best in the areas that you operate in. And yet. you'll still look to improve and do better. And I think that's a real test of me to you kind of business skills and also not just kind of sitting back on your, on your heels. You have to keep pushing forward because everybody, when you're the best is snapping at your heels. So I think rebranding that falls into that and I know Ian, your expansion, et cetera. So yeah, interesting, really interesting times. speaker-1: I think I think the back end ⁓ where's he's gone. I think the the ⁓ sort of back end is really interesting on that as well, Michelle, 'cause one of the challenges we've had this year, we've had a bit of a leaky pipeline. So as well as we're trying to sort of improve everything on the front end, we're also investing a load of of time and resource internally trying to improve processes and experiences once we've got clients in the business. speaker-2: know you're saying about leaky pipeline. That's something that we're hearing from loads of our members. It is a real problem at the moment. We've got someone coming in actually on this next mastermind to talk specifically about pipeline leaks. So yeah, you're not alone with that one. speaker-3: Just pick up on that point there about the icky pipeline. I think one thing that's really good for mitigating that to a degree is the pre-launch. Because so, for example, ⁓ this house that we did a live on yesterday where it was raining at the start, and then we're not doing the marketing for three weeks and we put three viewings on it already yesterday. Those people who are viewing that off market think they've got a special opportunity to purchase something. So I think the conveyance should be more secure on that sale than. You than a normal sale where it's been on the market for two months and they've got loads of competition and I think that sort of sale where they feel like it's theirs and no one else is getting a look in, I think the conveyance, you're smiley, Michelle, maybe you disagree with me. speaker-2: No, no, I'm not. totally agree with you. Cause if you think back, I know I was doing your sales progression when the stamp duty holiday was in, the sales progression process then was an absolute dream because they were so keyed in to getting that sale across the line. You had that cooperation with the buyer and the seller. So it's anything that you can do to create that kind of situation and that ⁓ kind of box really. and definitely propel it forward for sure. speaker-3: Yeah, yeah, interesting. speaker-0: Good. speaker-1: Okay, I think there's at least one member in the group that uses Gazille, isn't there? Can't remember who it is. How do we ⁓ Nick, okay. How do you guys feel about Gazel or reservation agreements as a as a concept? speaker-3: Yeah. I like the idea of it. Yeah. As a concept. I do. It's it's something the whole the from the storage perspective, the whole aim of me and the growth is to give me more time to implement things like that. Because I think it's it's gotta be worth looking at if the if the seller and buyer, you know, feels like they're gonna lose something if they pull out, feels like it's worth exploring to me. I know Nick loves it. speaker-1: Yeah, we've we we've looked at implementing it ourselves, ⁓ and it's it's really tricky to do unless you're gonna take something off the shelf and being able to sort of order searches early ⁓ he's gone again. Order searches early and ⁓ being able to share things like ID, AML, KYC stuff with the different stakeholders. That's the key to it. speaker-3: Yeah. speaker-1: ordering search is at the point of instruction surely is a good it's it's gotta be a good thing. speaker-3: Course. Yeah. I mean there's so much should be done, isn't at the the point of instruction, yeah. Before that. speaker-2: Yeah, God. I mean, that's a podcast in itself, isn't it? Yeah. And I think the, well, I'll say two things. The agents that operate in the more premium market, you have a much more chance of getting it through more quickly because it's very relationship focus rather than transactional. I'm actually buying an investment property at the moment and I've been going six weeks and you know, standard thing, I am being that nightmare buyer. because I need to do my tax return. I've not done it. I've had to put it in, then waiting for my documentation from HMRC. know, proof of funds for the deposit is a bit convoluted. It's coming from investments. So six weeks and all I've done is fill out my solicitor's paperwork and I haven't had a call. I literally have not had a call. And every day I'm thinking, am I going to get a call now? And they're going to kind of put a rocket up my... backside, but I've done that classic thing where I've gone quiet because I know I'm doing stuff in the background and I don't want to be chased. So when you have that relationship in a premium situation, that doesn't happen. It doesn't happen. So it's employing all of those tools early, as early as possible to try and reduce the leaks and the time in the pipe. speaker-3: Yeah. No question. No question. We've been the same. And you know what? I re recently I'm I I try to maintain my professionalism as much as I can, but I I've had a couple of conversations with sellers recently where they they're on a you know, they're gonna use tell them they're gonna use someone else who obviously is like less than half the cost. And I've told them what experience some clients I've had with them recently. because it pisses me off, you know, that they need to know. They really need to know. I we had one recently, obviously naming no agents' names, where I've got a client who has sold their house, they're buying one to this other agent, they've not heard anything for eight weeks since they since the offer is accepted. Eight weeks. And and these sellers who have another val I went to were thinking of using that agent. So I told speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: There's a there's a local agent near me and I bought a house from them, the house that I'm in now, and the I gave them all the proof of funds, and from that day I never heard another thing. I collected the keys from ⁓ the the seller directly. You know, I was it I'd I'd I'd exchanged numbers with him, literally, not once, not once the estate and it didn't remit at all throughout the committee process. Unbelievable. speaker-2: I mean, we could. speaker-0: And obviously I come up against them a lot and they are not point five percent plus that, you know. speaker-2: The thing you put in with speaker-1: I was just gonna say we've had buyers who have sold with other agents who have ended up leaving us a review. Yeah. Saying they'd wish they'd used us to sell. We had we we had somebody send in a hamper the other day who is a buyer who sold with another agent. We haven't even found them a house yet. We've just done some onward search stuff for them and they're they're already buying the buying the girls in the office presence for it. It's I I just don't understand why an agent would operate in that way, Dave. It's just it's just lazy, innit? It it's beyond low standards. It's just lazy. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-2: It is. And the final thing I want to say on that is always remember they're in your chain. So you have to find a way of working with them and you end up progressing their sale. So there's lots of relationship things that you have to employ to make sure that they're actually doing what you need them to do. So as frustrating as it is, you know, you have to know that they're the thing that could potentially make your sale fall through. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-2: God, that's ending on a low. speaker-0: Is that everything is that everything on your list as well, Michelle? Dumb. ⁓ God, how depressing. Well, Craig, let's let's try and finish with a positive. And I promise it's not a pitch. Tell us how you you know you can tell us the the truth. But obviously you've been a member of the Complete Agent now for for about a year. ⁓ talk to us about what's changed since you've joined and how things have impacted you. speaker-1: ⁓ I mean, the most fundamental change is our average fee has rocketed as a result of implementing things that we first picked up on the podcast and then later on when when we joined as full members. I would say that the confidence that especially the sort of more senior members of the team like Kate have got as a result of okay, well I th I I can do that. I've I've been an agent for twenty years. If Ian can do it, if Dave can do it, if JK can do it, I can do it as well. And going out, doing it, proofing the pudding, coming back to the team, like you said before, that's been transformational for us. and I think probably the the scope of the ambition of what we can achieve at that level as well. It's not just our little agency charging more for it. It's well actually we can we we if you look a bit the extend the geography a little bit, there are very few really, really good agents. So there's an opportunity there for us to to go into that patch and go into that patch. And because of the model We don't need to go in and with a new office list twenty, thirty houses a month. We just need half a dozen. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. That's it. It's gr it's game change, isn't it? speaker-1: Yeah, I I I of all the you know, I'm members of other masterminds and ⁓ I've had different coaching and stuff over the years, and they've all had really positive impacts, but I think the thing that's had the most tangible impact, not just on me, but on on the business as a whole and on the team, because it affects them, they're the ones on the tools, not me. I'm a bit different to you guys. Complete agent has been the thing that's definitely had the biggest impact in a positive way on our business. speaker-2: I've got one final question, Craig. What's the thing that you're most proud of that nobody sees? speaker-1: I think it's just the kind of the coalescence of all of the things that have got us to where we are now. And when I see the team when we shared that story yesterday in our in our morning meeting in our huddle about that agent who says, We're the wrong agent for you, it's Northwall and you see how everybody in that team looks so proud of themselves and pr ⁓ really wanting to be part of what it is that we're doing and how they understood it, that makes me understand that it's sinking in and we're going in the right direction. Yeah. It's not 'cause it's You can look at average fee increase and average property increase and KPIs and numbers till the cows come home, but I think once you get the team really bought into the values and what it is that you're trying to do, that purpose, that's the thing that makes me think that we're we're we're on our way now. speaker-0: Love that. Well, that seems like a good place to call it. Another great podcast. Craig, thanks so much, mate, for coming on. You've been an unbelievable guest and I'm sure lots of people will get a lot over it. speaker-1: Thanks for having me. speaker-0: You're most welcome. You can come again. Unfortunately, JK will be back next week. It's going to go back to being unpacked and it's going to be another hour and a half. So get ready for that one. But thanks for listening, guys, and we'll see you at the next one. speaker-1: Bye. Bye bye.