Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / You May Miss Your Wife Pursuing You To Spend More Time With Her... When She Stops

Transcript

You May Miss Your Wife Pursuing You To Spend More Time With Her... When She Stops · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi everybody, and welcome to this episode of the Doctor Psych
• 0:08
  Mom Show. Today I'm going to be talking
• 0:11
  about how you may miss your wife pursuing you when she stops.
• 0:15
  And before we get to that, which I'm sure you're on tenterhooks
• 0:19
  to hear about, please do subscribe.
• 0:21
  My most recent subscriber episode was on how healthy
• 0:23
  couples age well together and what sorts of constructs and
• 0:27
  traits predict being happy as you get older.
• 0:31
  And this is a common, common thing that I deal with people
• 0:35
  with couples who are, you know, wondering about their
• 0:39
  compatibility as they age, sex, falls off, etcetera.
• 0:42
  And they are wondering how to do that in a healthier way.
• 0:45
  And I talk about that in depth in that episode.
• 0:47
  And if you subscribe, you get that as well as about 140
• 0:50
  others. All right.
• 0:51
  So what is a wife's pursuing a husband usually look like?
• 0:55
  So she's the preoccupied attachment partner.
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  And you could refer back to my early attachment style podcast.
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  In most cases, the woman is a preoccupied attachment partner,
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  but in some cases it's the man. And we see all those cases on
• 1:08
  Internet relationship forums because those are the guys who
• 1:11
  are on those, right? But mostly it's women who you
• 1:15
  know are trying to get the man to marry them and who want to
• 1:19
  him to be more romantic and want things to be like a ROM com and
• 1:23
  want to have babies and want to get a house.
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  And she's kind of driving all of these things.
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  And the more avoidant partner, the man usually is always kind
• 1:33
  of feeling smothered and trying to get his boys nights and stuff
• 1:35
  like that. Of course there are more
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  securely attached people than either sort of insecurely
• 1:40
  attached. About half of people are
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  securely attached so those people don't have to get into
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  toxic pursuer distance or patterns because they did not
• 1:47
  see any in their family of origin.
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  But for the rest of the people who did not grow up in a very
• 1:54
  happy happily married, seeing happily married parents, it can
• 1:57
  be hard to find. And a securely attached person
• 2:00
  because you're not securely attached yourself.
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  So usually you get into a pursuer distance or dynamic of
• 2:05
  some sort and in this case it's a woman who was pursuing and the
• 2:09
  man is always kind of no, I want my space, I need to work, I need
• 2:12
  my hobbies, I need this, I need that.
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  And so in this case, the woman tries and tries throughout the
• 2:19
  time that she is young and her estrogen is, is flowing through
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  her veins like water. And she is really into the idea
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  of family time and couple time and date nights and hang out
• 2:32
  with me. And let's talk about our
• 2:33
  feelings and let's do these quizzes that I found about our
• 2:36
  relationship and all of these sorts of things.
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  Right. And the guy is like, Jesus
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  Christ, what does she up my ass all the time for?
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  Just trying to live my life. Somebody's got to make money for
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  this family and I just got to do my hobbies.
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  Can a man just go away for like 8 days, every 16 days, you know,
• 2:53
  just with his boys? I mean, what the hell?
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  And you know, and things like that.
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  Of course I'm joking about the extent of the time, but you
• 3:02
  know, a lot of time, a lot of time spent on hobbies, on
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  gaming, on just being by himself, on working out and for
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  avoiding attachment. Guys, they always have a reason,
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  right? And the reason is, well, I work
• 3:14
  out for my health. Well, I see friends because
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  that's what's normal to do, and all of those guys get to do it.
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  So why don't I? Well, I work hard for this
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  family, and what they're not saying is basically it's
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  incredibly uncomfortable for me to connect in any way
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  emotionally. So I try not to be around you
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  because you kind of freak me out.
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  You're always up my ass. You're going to cry about
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  something. You seem to want something from
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  me that I have no idea how to give.
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  Nobody in my family ever spoke about emotions.
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  I have Jack shit idea what you ever want from me.
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  I thought we would get married and that would be it.
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  But now there's something else And then I thought we'd have the
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  baby and that would be it and then the house and that would be
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  it. When do I ever just get to golf
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  for like a week? I don't get it.
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  Is that too much to ask? And so and and of course the
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  newer versions of these guys say golf and take care of the kids
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  because that's what they want to do.
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  And magically, they also want to have sex.
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  So the avoid an attachment man is definitely the pursuer in the
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  bedroom. But these women don't want to
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  have sex because they don't feel connected.
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  So younger preoccupied attachment women and I have a
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  post about this. These are the women for whom
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  romance and chore play and connection really does change
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  their desire to have sex. Because they have a sex drive.
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  They're often masturbating a lot too, you know, because they're
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  just young, healthy animals and they want they have a sex drive.
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  But he's an asshole. So they do not want to like,
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  reward in their mind. Like, you know, his terrible
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  behavior of not texting and not being nice and never talking,
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  never wanting to hang out and never planning a date, etcetera,
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  with sex. And also, they literally do not
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  feel vulnerable and intimate with him.
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  You know, it's an intimate act, right?
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  To take your clothes off and be open with somebody and have an
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  orgasm. They don't want to do that
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  because they think he's a real Dick and they think that if they
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  keep on trying and trying enough, he won't be.
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  And they also think that because they had a parent that never
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  gave them enough attention, that's how you become
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  preoccupied attachment. You have a warm caregiver that's
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  warm sometimes and you could go back and learn about this in the
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  Attachment Style podcast. But you become preoccupied
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  attachment because sometimes you could get your caregivers
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  attention and it was good and they just then they're drawn to
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  people who are like that, the slot machine.
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  Every so often the attachment avoid an attachment guy,
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  especially if he wants to get laid, will come and be close.
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  But most of the time he doesn't want to because he grew up in a
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  home where closeness was just not a thing and he was told to
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  go play and take care of his own shit.
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  So these two people end up together.
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  And the point of this podcast is to say that many of these men, I
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  see them later on and they really regret not spending more
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  time with her and not going to the couples counseling she
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  wanted to go to and not really, you know, ever trying to do the
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  Super big romantic act or even figure out what the fuck that
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  meant that she wanted. Or, you know, to really make a
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  big stink about like anniversaries or whatever it is,
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  you know, that he feels that he didn't do.
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  And So what happens is these couples get to their 40s and
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  beyond, and the woman's estrogen changes, She's done having
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  babies. And, you know, she feels
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  different. She's like, fuck this, you know,
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  why am I trying? He's really not very nice.
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  Never really wanted to be with me, it seems.
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  So I'm kind of out of here, and either I'm going to be out of
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  here now or I'm going to be out of here when the kids are out of
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  school or, you know, are in college.
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  And either way, fuck it. I'm not just not trying anymore.
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  And at that point, these couples usually come into couples
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  counselling because at that point she's done having sex too.
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  And so then the guy really is like, wait, what?
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  You know? And he never believed.
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  So here's here's like the interesting part.
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  A lot of these women keep having sex because sex is the only time
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  that the guy really acts nice. So when their sex drive goes
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  down, they're like, well, shit, I don't even want to have sex
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  anymore. Frequently they do not
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  understand that that's a hormonal change.
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  But they think in their mind, they think I am just so angry
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  with him. All of my bitterness that I've
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  been saying over all these years, and they have a paper
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  trail man. I've seen emails from like 10
• 7:09
  years before and they've been unhappy and they feel like he
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  doesn't care about them. They feel that he doesn't love
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  them and this and that. And they're like, well, I guess
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  I just don't want to have sex anymore.
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  I just guess I hit my breaking point.
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  And in reality to the both things can be true.
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  They emotionally have hit a breaking point, maybe, but also
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  their changed hormones make them not have sex as much.
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  So that's like the underlying variable that kind of caused the
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  immediate change. But either way, they're not
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  wrong that they've been unhappy in the relationship for a long
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  time. And so they go to therapy and
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  then there's all these empathic ruptures because he's always
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  picking something else to do that's not her over the course
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  of the marriage. And of course he's not a bad
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  guy. And in many cases he tried to do
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  some nice things over the years, but the the IT remains that he
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  has definitively been the distancer, she has definitively
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  been the pursuer. Both of them acknowledged that
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  that's been the dynamic and many guys really do regret this
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  because at that point she's checked out and she's not really
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  going to check back in unless they get into couples counseling
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  and son resolve everything. And you know, some people do not
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  even do that. Some women just file or they
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  just check out emotionally and they're just done.
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  And then he regrets it many of the time.
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  Many of the times. However, not all of the times.
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  Because as I talked about, there was a very similar podcast where
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  preoccupied attachment men frequently say, Oh, my wife is
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  going to regret it. She's going to regret it because
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  when the kids are older and out of the house, she is going to
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  regret not working on this marriage because we're going to
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  be totally disconnected and she's going to regret it.
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  And I say, yes, she might, but also a lot of avoidant people
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  don't. She got the kids, She raised the
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  kids. That was the core center of her
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  life. Now she's done like she's, you
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  know, she you don't need to be together anymore.
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  She doesn't regret anything, really, because she doesn't want
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  to spend this time with you as an older person that you assumed
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  that she did. She doesn't care.
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  She wants to live her life and if you leave, then you leave.
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  I also have a podcast. Many avoid and attachment
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  partners would be relieved if you initiate a divorce.
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  Fewer would be relieved when children are young, but many,
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  many would be relieved when the children were older and some
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  would also be relieved when the children were young.
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  So some of these avoidant attachment guys don't care if
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  she leaves eventually because she was always a problem anyway,
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  knew she nothing was good enough.
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  She was never happy. She always seemed, you know,
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  like she was trying to change them.
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  She truly was. She wanted them to be more
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  emotional. And so they they're done, you
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  know, and she's done and they're done and everybody's done.
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  So in those cases, everybody's done.
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  And that may be the case that you're in.
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  Who knows? However, more likely you are in
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  a case, as an avoidant attachment man, that if you give
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  a little bit more now, then you may not get to a situation where
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  she wants to leave you and that might be better you if you love
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  her. If you love her, then you might
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  want to work on things now. And The thing is, is when you
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  come forward more than she retreats more.
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  She doesn't have to be up your ass all the time if you're
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  actually doing things. That's what guys see so quickly
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  in couples counseling. This is the dynamic that I used
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  to work with all the time, because of course I used to be
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  younger, and I used to work with younger people and in their 30s
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  and especially their 20s. Almost every couple I see is an
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  avoidant attachment guy dragged in by a preoccupied attachment
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  wife. And she wants more from him
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  emotionally. She wants more closeness, She
• 10:30
  wants more romance, She wants more attention.
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  She wants him to put down his phone while she's talking to
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  her, while he's talking to her family, time, pumpkin festival,
• 10:39
  whatever. And she's still sleeping with
• 10:41
  him. But you know, she she isn't
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  thrilled with him and those guys, if they were to, and they
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  see this in couples counseling, schedule a date night, Write out
• 10:53
  a list of things he likes about her or he loves about her, Send
• 10:56
  more cute texts during the day. Then sometimes this problem just
• 11:00
  goes away because women who are preoccupied attachment,
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  everything, is a longest spectrum.
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  So if we're talking about a woman with fearful, avoidant
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  attachment, which is the one you get when you're abused as a
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  child or neglected concords more with personality disorders, then
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  yeah, probably a lot of her issues have to be resolved on
• 11:20
  her own and and she has to work through some shit and things are
• 11:23
  going to be volatile and difficult, certainly worse the
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  more avoidant you are, but you know, you're not going to
• 11:29
  unilaterally fix that. But there's women who are
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  preoccupied attachment like a little bit, you know, like not
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  like crazy. They're not lighting your shit
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  on fire when you don't come home on time.
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  They're just crying or they're like sad or something.
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  But they're still overall, they sleep with you and they they
• 11:45
  still try to do stuff together. And, you know, you still have a
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  connection. Those women, if you're nicer to
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  them, they're a lot happier. Like, they want the relationship
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  to work. They genuinely want the
• 11:58
  relationship to work. They want the storybook wedding
• 12:02
  and then marriage, and they want you to love them.
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  And when you show more that you love them, such as going to
• 12:08
  couples counselling and doing what the counsellor suggests
• 12:10
  that you do without criticizing it or dismissing it or
• 12:14
  invalidating it, and you just try to do the little things and
• 12:17
  to call more and plan more and to understand her more that
• 12:21
  she's happy. And so then you've saved
• 12:24
  yourself from later divorce, quite honestly.
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  But many guys will not hear this podcast and many men will not be
• 12:30
  sent this by their wives. And I know a lot of wives are
• 12:32
  already queuing this one up to Sen And those people.
• 12:35
  The woman will probably walk away later on, whether that's
• 12:38
  emotionally such as she's just living a parallel life and
• 12:41
  you're not really connecting at all and she stops sleeping with
• 12:44
  you or fully like she leaves. And that's what Michelle Weiner
• 12:48
  Davis who wrote the sex star of marriage calls the walk away
• 12:51
  wife syndrome where women just walk away in like.
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  And the guy's like, what happened?
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  I thought that we were doing well.
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  I thought she was finally not up my ass.
• 12:59
  I thought she matured the past five years.
• 13:02
  You know, it's been great. I golf as much as I want.
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  She's, you know, not fighting with me.
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  We don't have any problems. Like she's not always telling me
• 13:09
  I have to do you know, something be more romantic, Hang out.
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  I just do what I want. She does what she wants.
• 13:15
  We. It's great.
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  And turns out that the woman has decided pretty much when she,
• 13:19
  like, stopped being so crazy in his mind, she decided she didn't
• 13:23
  care anymore and she was going to leave.
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  And then she does, And he feels blindsided because in his mind,
• 13:27
  it was the best time in the marriage.
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  Maybe they weren't having as much sex, but she still wasn't
• 13:30
  up his ass. He was able to do all of his
• 13:32
  things that he wanted to do, you know, be out of the house, you
• 13:35
  know, 16 hours a day and whatever else.
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  And it was 'cause she just didn't care, and she just
• 13:41
  literally stopped caring. So for any guy that does hear
• 13:44
  this, that is in this situation, a little bit of effort on the
• 13:48
  front, you know, in the front, loading a little bit of effort
• 13:51
  when you are in the stage where she still gives a shit could
• 13:54
  prevent you from being in a really, really bad situation
• 13:58
  later on where you have a contentious divorce and she like
• 14:01
  hates you and she is bitter and she feels that you never tried.
• 14:04
  And all of these things. Now, of course, like, you know,
• 14:08
  the woman has to moderate her own expectations.
• 14:10
  As I said, there are situations where there is a level of her
• 14:14
  dysfunction and her drama that certainly cannot be ascribed
• 14:18
  solely to your behavior. And in those situations, it's in
• 14:21
  fact even more imperative that you get into couples counseling,
• 14:24
  right? So if she is losing her mind and
• 14:27
  accusing you of cheating and going through your phone and
• 14:29
  like, you know all sorts of crazy shit, you should get into
• 14:32
  couples counseling even faster, right?
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  Because she's a wild card. She could do anything at any
• 14:37
  moment, right? And you don't need that.
• 14:39
  And you don't need that problem for yourself and your kids, and
• 14:42
  she's struggling. People only act volatile and
• 14:45
  quote crazy when they have been treated bad.
• 14:48
  Like that's how to make an animal act crazy, right?
• 14:50
  Well, it's how to make a person act crazy too, you know?
• 14:53
  And so when people lash out and feel constantly like things are
• 14:57
  unfair and that something bad is going to happen and that you're
• 14:59
  cheating and you're doing bad things.
• 15:01
  And, you know, all it means is basically they're wearing AT
• 15:04
  shirt saying, I had a terrible childhood and I need to process
• 15:07
  it and work through it with somebody who loves and supports
• 15:09
  me. And that should be you.
• 15:10
  Because if this person, your wife, is parenting your
• 15:13
  children, you want her to be in a good headspace, not the
• 15:16
  headspace that she's in With. The way that this marriage is
• 15:18
  going, which is exacerbating what you are correct, are likely
• 15:22
  preexisting issues, but the marriage is making them worse.
• 15:25
  So that's an even bigger call to arms for getting into couples
• 15:29
  counseling and dealing with it. And so in these cases, a couples
• 15:33
  counselor will usually be like, well, yeah, you know, he is not
• 15:36
  being very sensitive. Also, have you considered
• 15:38
  individual therapy? Because you seem pretty
• 15:40
  depressed and you went through a lot as a kid and in those cases
• 15:44
  she could. Then couples counseling would be
• 15:46
  the springboard for her working on the deeper issues which
• 15:49
  you've been saying she needs to do.
• 15:51
  And you can go back to the podcast Mr. Perfect and His
• 15:54
  Crazy Wife for more on how this particular dynamic works.
• 15:58
  All right, well, I hope you guys found this one interesting.
• 16:01
  I certainly did in recording it And do subscribe because the
• 16:06
  most recent one again was on aging well together and if you
• 16:10
  listen to that one, I promise that I might do 2 upcoming ones
• 16:14
  from the content in that one and I will.
• 16:16
  I'll be doing what's your flexibility quotient And I'll do
• 16:19
  Nobody wants to be the asshole AKA why couples counseling
• 16:22
  works. So you're going to like those
• 16:24
  upcoming ones. Those are not subscriber, but
• 16:26
  the one where I came up with them or where I talked about
• 16:28
  them is All right. Thanks for listening guys and
• 16:31
  I'll talk to you all soon. Have a great day.