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What Is Business Development? Inside the Tactics Used by Top Professional Services Firms · What is Business Development?

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Business Development podcast, brought to you by
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  Speaker 1: the Global Business Development Association, delivering the strategies and tactics
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: to boost your career and corporate growth.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Hello BD Pros, and welcome to the Global Business Development
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Association podcast called what is Business Development? Now? Wouldn't you
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: like to know how some of the most successful firms
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: and leaders create and develop their cultures to encourage business development.
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  Speaker 2: You know, if you're a project manager, a lawyer, or
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: an engineer or an accountant and you're listening to this,
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: there are a lot of professions out there that do
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  Speaker 2: not operate with the title of business development, but they
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  Speaker 2: are required. They are often driven to building business for
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  Speaker 2: their corporations and they have that responsibility just like business
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  Speaker 2: developers do. They just don't have the business development title.
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  Speaker 2: And a lot of you listening are probably in the
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  Speaker 2: same exact situation. And today we're going to talk about
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  Speaker 2: how law firms can grow their business through top business
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  Speaker 2: development tactics and marketing tactics with our guest today, who's
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  Speaker 2: Deborah Fern. And Deborah has spent her career doing what
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  Speaker 2: she loves, which is helping lawyers and other leaders grow
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  Speaker 2: their practices and their teams by creating and leading marketing
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  Speaker 2: departments for two of the world's most respected law firms,
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  Speaker 2: and she also served as a chief business Development officer
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  Speaker 2: for one of those firms. She takes all of that
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  Speaker 2: experience and today she works with law firms, consulting firms,
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  Speaker 2: and c suite professionals to build and restructure marketing teams
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  Speaker 2: for maximum impact, create business development and marketing plans that
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  Speaker 2: win work, and coach a select number of motivated partners
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  Speaker 2: and cmos to deepen relationships and drive results. Well, we're
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  Speaker 2: going to talk about her book today which will help
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  Speaker 2: you drive results. And the name of her book is
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  Speaker 2: Best Practices in Law Firm Business Development and Marketing. So
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  Speaker 2: let me welcome to the show, Deborah Faron. Deborah, thank
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  Speaker 2: you for joining us.
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  Speaker 3: It's so nice to be here, Tony, and I've heard
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  Speaker 3: so many great things about this podcast. I've started to
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  Speaker 3: be an avid listener.
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  Speaker 2: Well, thank you, Deborah. That's very kind of you to
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  Speaker 2: say that. So, Deborah, let's start off by just getting
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  Speaker 2: a sense of how did you enter the business development
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  Speaker 2: profession and eventually make it to chief business development officer,
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  Speaker 2: which is really the pinnacle of our profession. It's either
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  Speaker 2: CBDO or Chief Growth Officer. That's another leading title for
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  Speaker 2: business developers. But how did you enter the profession.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I was fortunate enough to get a great job
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  Speaker 3: out of college and I worked at Ketchum Communications, which
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  Speaker 3: did both PR and advertising. And although I had a
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  Speaker 3: range of clients, one of the clients I was assigned
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  Speaker 3: was a law firm and the laws had just changed.
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  Speaker 3: We were just allowed to start to actually market law firms,
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  Speaker 3: and I fell in love with the idea of helping lawyers.
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  Speaker 3: I felt that they were involved in interesting matters, the
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  Speaker 3: matters were different. I thought working with the professional service
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  Speaker 3: firm was a great idea. So that was really the beginning.
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  Speaker 3: And although I was hired away by a management consulting firm,
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  Speaker 3: I eventually became one of the first chief marketing officers
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  Speaker 3: on the East Coasts, working for a firm called Deba Voice,
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  Speaker 3: a great experience. I was there for fourteen years and
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  Speaker 3: then hired by Kravath, which was another wonderful firm often
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  Speaker 3: referred to as the world's most prestigious law firm. And
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  Speaker 3: so my job was to help lawyers who were already
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  Speaker 3: uber successful find ways to be even more successful.
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  Speaker 2: Wow, that's great Debra and it shows an interesting pathway
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  Speaker 2: for a business developer who really rises through the ranks
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  Speaker 2: into the chief marketing officer role and then becomes chief
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  Speaker 2: business development officer. And I think, you know, our profession
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  Speaker 2: has evolved so quickly over the past twenty years, and
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  Speaker 2: the entry point into our profession. A lot of people
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  Speaker 2: enter our profession not as a business development representative or
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  Speaker 2: a salesperson. They enter through the marketing, marketing or operations.
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  Speaker 2: And there are a lot of varied pathways into our profession,
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  Speaker 2: and so yours is quite interesting because it shows that
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  Speaker 2: marketing pathway into an industry that I think a lot
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  Speaker 2: of folks may not realize is so driven by business
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  Speaker 2: development like all firms, but now they have clear roles
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  Speaker 2: in law firms for business developers, not just full time attorneys.
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  Speaker 2: So this is really interesting. So what drove you to
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  Speaker 2: write your book?
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  Speaker 3: Well, I actually ended up writing two books. When I
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  Speaker 3: decided it was time to leave Kravath, I wanted to
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  Speaker 3: write kind of what the best practices were that I
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  Speaker 3: had seen while I was at that amazing firm, and
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  Speaker 3: so I interviewed people around the country and really found
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  Speaker 3: out best practices for both mid sized firms, some smaller
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  Speaker 3: firms and large firms, and I also spoke with people
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  Speaker 3: in Europe and Asia. So I wrote a book called
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  Speaker 3: Best Practices. And then most recently, I had been finding
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  Speaker 3: that there were lawyers out there who didn't know how
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  Speaker 3: to develop business, but there were others who were great rainmakers.
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  Speaker 3: And in particular, I saw this happening with women, that
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  Speaker 3: women didn't have as many role models. There weren't as
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  Speaker 3: many women at the top of law firms. There are
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  Speaker 3: less than twenty five percent of law firms that are
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  Speaker 3: led by women in the Amlock two hundred, so it's
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  Speaker 3: a very small number. And I wanted to be able
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  Speaker 3: to find those women that were great rainmakers and get
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  Speaker 3: their advice so that we could give it to women
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  Speaker 3: who wanted to drive business and to others, not just
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  Speaker 3: necessarily women. And so that's really what drove me to
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  Speaker 3: write the second book.
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  Speaker 2: Well, you're a wonderful role model, and it's great to
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  Speaker 2: see all of those teachings from the folks that have
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  Speaker 2: succeeded in the legal profession in business development be represented
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  Speaker 2: in this book. I love to just jump right into
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  Speaker 2: the book right now and let's identify the top three
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  Speaker 2: takeaways or top three tactics from the book. Can we
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  Speaker 2: do that?
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  Speaker 3: Sure? You know, in thinking about this, there were three
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  Speaker 3: themes that kept on coming out, and they resonated whether
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  Speaker 3: I was speaking to someone from Botswana or someone from
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  Speaker 3: Milan or someone from Asia. I mean, it was incredible,
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  Speaker 3: but I found that the women that were most successful,
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  Speaker 3: that really felt confident in developing business, had a sense
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  Speaker 3: of authenticity. They really knew themselves well. And maybe that
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  Speaker 3: came after years of trying different things, but they had
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  Speaker 3: tried different ways of marketing. And I think that's a
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  Speaker 3: good tip for people. You know, the different kinds of
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  Speaker 3: marketing work for different people. Someone might like public speaking,
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  Speaker 3: another person might like doing referral marketing where they're talking
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  Speaker 3: to their existing clients and getting to know friends of friends,
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  Speaker 3: and so that mark really needs to be authentic. And
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  Speaker 3: one of the women that I spoke with, who is
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  Speaker 3: based in Milan, her name is an A Lisa Reale,
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  Speaker 3: is incredible. She grew up as a wonderful musician and
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  Speaker 3: she played violin and what she does for business development
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  Speaker 3: is something that she loves. She takes people to the
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  Speaker 3: opera Lascala, the famed opera houses right down the street
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  Speaker 3: from her office, and she often invites clients and their
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  Speaker 3: spouses and their families. And so being authentic and finding
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  Speaker 3: what you love, what makes you happy, what you're passionate about,
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  Speaker 3: I think is so important when developing business. So I
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  Speaker 3: would tell people out there, give a couple of things
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  Speaker 3: a try, and think about what you really love doing,
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  Speaker 3: because clients will know that. They'll sense that and makes
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  Speaker 3: marketing much easier. And I think you know. The second
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  Speaker 3: thing is that we've learned the great developers of business
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  Speaker 3: develop it over time. It's usually not the phone call
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  Speaker 3: that you get because your bio is beautiful on the web,
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  Speaker 3: and it's not because you have a great LinkedIn profile.
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  Speaker 3: And while you need all of those things, those are
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  Speaker 3: kind of table stakes. You really need to be connecting
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  Speaker 3: with people over time and starting when you're young. And
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  Speaker 3: so my advice is you're never too young to start
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  Speaker 3: connecting with people. And although you might believe in having
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  Speaker 3: a shorter sales funnel and a lot of people do that,
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  Speaker 3: very often your business comes from those second degree contacts
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  Speaker 3: and third degree contacts. And Nicholas Christacus has written quite
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  Speaker 3: a bit about this, and it's fascinating when you think
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  Speaker 3: about your network, not just only the people that you know,
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  Speaker 3: but the people that they know. And lastly, I would
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  Speaker 3: say developing a niche. All of these incredible women and
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  Speaker 3: the men that I spoke with, we're very good about
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  Speaker 3: defining what they do. And I think this is true
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  Speaker 3: for lawyers, but I also think it's true for bankers
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  Speaker 3: and arctechs and really any profession to think about what
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  Speaker 3: it is that you do that's so different or better
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  Speaker 3: than the person next door, Or what is it that
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  Speaker 3: makes you special. Is that you've done these five deals
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  Speaker 3: in a certain area that are unique, Or is it
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  Speaker 3: that you love big, messy, complicated litigations. Figuring that out
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  Speaker 3: and then looking to see if there's a marketplace for
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  Speaker 3: it is so essential and then seeing where those things meet.
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  Speaker 3: And so my advice on that point is draw two circles,
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  Speaker 3: make a ven diagram, an old fashioned vent diagram, and
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  Speaker 3: then one circle put all the things that you really
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  Speaker 3: love doing, and then on the other circle, think about
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  Speaker 3: the marketplace and what the marketplace is today, and do
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  Speaker 3: a little forecasting for the future and where those things
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  Speaker 3: bump up. That's your niche and you'll really be able
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  Speaker 3: to do well once you have that.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so a lot to unpack there. The first
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  Speaker 2: one is identifying the tactics that work for you, right.
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  Speaker 2: It's there are plenty of business development tactics that are
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  Speaker 2: out there. Obviously, you have I think a lot of
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  Speaker 2: those good tactics in your book that people can reference.
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  Speaker 2: They're in the Business Development Body of Knowledge and that's
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  Speaker 2: available at the GBDA website for the folks that want
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  Speaker 2: to pursue their Business Development Professional certification. There are a
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  Speaker 2: lot of tactics out there, and some tactics just don't
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  Speaker 2: work for some people. And it could be because of
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  Speaker 2: their skill set. They're not proficient at it, that's one thing,
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  Speaker 2: but it also may be something that they're just not
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  Speaker 2: comfortable with. Some people are just not comfortable making cold
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  Speaker 2: calls or doing cold drop ins, but they're really comfortable
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  Speaker 2: going to a social event or a networking event within
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  Speaker 2: their industry and having conversations with people and meeting new contacts,
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  Speaker 2: meeting new prospects in those venues. Or they might really
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  Speaker 2: like the opera and enjoy networking with people at the opera.
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  Speaker 2: It's finding the tactic that really resonates with you and
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  Speaker 2: also delivers the results. Yeah, you could be somebody who
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  Speaker 2: loves the opera. But if that never pans out for you,
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  Speaker 2: then your senior partners may have a question or two
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  Speaker 2: about your expense account really supporting your hobby or your interests.
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  Speaker 2: They have to deliver results as well, right, and so
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  Speaker 2: it's I think the key takeaway here is really good
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  Speaker 2: because so many times I think business developers are people
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  Speaker 2: who have a business development responsibility think they have to
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  Speaker 2: follow all of these tactics. And here's the thing, if
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: you follow all those tactics, you'll probably never have time
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  Speaker 2: to execute any one of them. Really well, it's good,
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  Speaker 2: and I think the other key takeaway from you was
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  Speaker 2: try them, see if they work, see if they deliver
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  Speaker 2: the results. And this is where I think a coach
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  Speaker 2: like you really helps because you can kind of be
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  Speaker 2: that candid third party assessment to say, Okay, you say
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  Speaker 2: you tried the tactic, but what did you actually do?
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  Speaker 2: And let's walk through are you competent? First of all,
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  Speaker 2: you competent about the tactic? And second of all, are
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  Speaker 2: you proficient at it? Okay, if you were not competent
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  Speaker 2: and you were not proficient, then that's probably why you
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  Speaker 2: had the bad result. But look if you did it competently,
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  Speaker 2: you did it proficiently, but it's still not panning out.
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  Speaker 2: It's probably just not your thing. You're probably just not
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  Speaker 2: good at it, or it's or it may not be
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  Speaker 2: right for your target ideal customer profile. So walking through those,
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  Speaker 2: testing those out and really finding the right tactical tool
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  Speaker 2: to put in your tool belt is a key takeaway.
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  Speaker 2: Are there any things when you're guiding your clients do
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  Speaker 2: you kind of lay out a whole list of tactics
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  Speaker 2: to them? Do you say, hey, try this first and
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  Speaker 2: try that. Do you kind of give them a tactical toolkit?
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  Speaker 2: How do you actually recommend that people kind of proceed
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  Speaker 2: through this?
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  Speaker 3: It's interesting. I you know, most of my practice is
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  Speaker 3: working with the firms as a whole on business development.
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  Speaker 3: But I take on about eight coaching clients a year.
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  Speaker 3: That's really all I have time for. But we always
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  Speaker 3: start with strategy. I am such a big believer in
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  Speaker 3: strategy before tactics. You know, figuring out the niche, figuring
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: out what you want to be, where your clients are,
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: how they make buying decisions. Those things are so important,
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  Speaker 3: so that, for instance, if you have a practice that
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: involves the arts and you loved the opera. Yes, taking
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: people to the opera and to dinner afterwards, you know
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  Speaker 3: that might be the right approach. But if you're a litigator,
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: it will be much tougher to figure out who the
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: client is. And maybe you're going to want to do
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: more broadcasting than narrow casting marketing. Maybe you want to
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: give more speeches to a perfect industry pub location or
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: a seminar that's going on. So it really depends on
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: what the strategy is. Right, as good marketers, you and
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  Speaker 3: I know a million different tactics, but a million different
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  Speaker 3: tactics are not great to even think about by one
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  Speaker 3: human being. You really need to know the strategy first.
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  Speaker 3: So that's what I really dig in first and find out.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, that reminds me of the great warrior philosopher
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  Speaker 2: Sunsu's quote that says tactics are just the noise before
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  Speaker 2: defeat without strategy. Right, you need right, you need strategy,
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  Speaker 2: You need an overall.
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  Speaker 3: And the worst is when you hear from someone I've
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: been so busy trying all these different ways to develop
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  Speaker 3: business and nothing's working, and you need to dig into, well,
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  Speaker 3: who is the potential client you're trying to get where
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: are they, where are they paying attention what matters to them?
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  Speaker 3: I mean, there are a whole bunch of things you
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: need to know before you spend your time, and lawyers
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: build by the minute, so the time becomes so important
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  Speaker 3: and making sure that you're spending it the right way.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, great, So that's tactic number one is pick the
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  Speaker 2: right tactics that align with your strategy that will be successful. Okay, great.
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  Speaker 2: So let's talk about tactic number two. And I think
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  Speaker 2: tactic number two you mentioned was networking and cultivating those first, second,
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  Speaker 2: and third degree connections and doing that in an authentic
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: way where it's they are the right fit for you.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: But let's dig into that a little bit deeper, because
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: we all know about the first level connections, those folks
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: that kind of our go tos, those people who are
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: partners of ours, clients that refer us on a regular basis.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: But you're also mentioning the second and third level connections.
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  Speaker 2: How are you recommending that people connect on a second
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: and third order level just through LinkedIn and just finding
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: second level connections and connecting with them that way, or
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: is it something a little bit deeper?
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  Speaker 3: You know, I think part of It is being open
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: to meeting new people. So if my friend who was
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: at Deloitte invites me to an event, granted that might
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: not be my key audience. I mainly work with lawyers
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: right now, but I get up and I go because
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: friends of my friends are going to have similar interests.
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: So that's one way. I think. Second, doing really amazing work,
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: doing you know, such great work that people will talk
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: about their work with you is priceless. And that's a
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: very high threshold, right. I think it was Reichol's you said,
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: you know, you have to really overjoy your clients in
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: order to get them to talk about you. And I
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: think that's part of it, you know. And if a
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: lawyer comes to me and says I only have an
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: hour a week to spend on business development, I'll tell
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: them to be serving their clients. You know, do a
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: great job first. There's no better source of business. I'm
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: very good at talking myself out out of a client,
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: and I tell them, but I tell them, honestly, spend
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: time with your clients. Make sure you're really making them
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: delighted with your work. And then I do believe in LinkedIn.
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: I think LinkedIn is fantastic. I think making sure that
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: you are connecting with new people, but most importantly that
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: you're providing really wonderful content that's going to help someone
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: out there having an idea of what it is that
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: you're providing, you know, give away free content. I'm a
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: believer that you should be out there helping people, and
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: if you have that helping mindset, it just happens. But
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: it's difficult to kind of put your finger on what
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: builds a reputation. I think it's doing great work. I
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: think it's connecting with people, and I think it's being
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: open to joining new networks and to getting to know people.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and I always like to emphasize the power
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: of existing customers, particularly those that are very fond of
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: your work. It really speaks to the definition of business development,
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: which is customer and community advocacy that creates corporate growth,
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: which is a double entendre. I've talked about it many
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: times on the show. It's the definition that's in the
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: business development body of knowledge that says, yes, we must
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: advocate for our customers and our community in order for
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: them to achieve success. Now, the flip side of that
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: meaning is that if you do a great job for them,
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: they will be a great advocate for you to their
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: network of connections. And so if you do business development
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: the right way, you won't have to do business development right.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: Your customers will be your best business developers. They will
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: bring the referrals to you saying, hey, Deborah's fantastic, She's
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: the best coach I've had add for business development, I've
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: had huge success. Well, that just brings other people to
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: the door. And those are the second and third connections.
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  Speaker 2: But I think what you're saying too is also put
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: yourself in a position where you can have those conversations
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: where your customer can be your advocate. In a meeting,
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: in a networking session at the opera, you know, bring
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: your invite your client and invite two or three prospects.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: You know, the client that loves you will be talking
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: to your those two prospects saying wow, Debra's not only
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: does she does she love the opera, but she's also
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: a fantastic attorney. And I've done that myself. Is you're
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: essentially creating the network environment, you know. I one of
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: the things I do is I keep track of every
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: networking event that I go to, conference, summit, breakfast event,
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: you name it, and then afterward I'll keep track of
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: what was my return on investment? Did I meet the
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: ideal customer profile, were they even there in the room
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: where they decision makers or not? Did I meet my
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: partners there that has some value? But and then I
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: score them. I have a spreadsheet where I kind of
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: score them based on a waiting that I use, and
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: then at the end of the year, I look at
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: them and I say, okay, which ones are at the
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: top twenty five percent? Those are the events I need
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: to go to next year. And then if there aren't
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: enough of those events, then I've created events, live events,
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: for example, dinner events with existing customers and prospects getting
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: them in the room, and I really don't have to
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: talk that much. The existing customers that love my work,
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: they speak volumes and those prospects here that you know.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: The conversion rate on referrals is in some cases over
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: fifty percent compared to cold calls. And this assumes you're
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: really good at cold calls. It's one three percent conversion rate.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: So you can make a hundred calls and get one meeting,
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: or you can get a good referral, get two referrals,
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: get two referrals and you'll get a solid meeting and
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: next restless. It's priceless. And I think it also depends
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: on the industry. It depends on the ICP ICP for lawyers,
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: your ideal customer profile. These are high level decision makers
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: are These are folks that have limited time to be
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: talking to people. They're definitely not going to answer your
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: cold call. So creating those environments where you can have
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: that high quality engagement I think is key, right, Debra.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: I think that is I think it's vital. And you
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: know we didn't even touch on the idea of share
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: of wallet right that if the client hires you to
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: do one thing and they're so delighted, they will hire
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: you back. And so you know, I've seen as a consultant,
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: I have many of the same clients that I had
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: when I set up my own shop six or seven
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: years ago. Because they've hired me for one thing, they
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: know that I did a very good job and delivered,
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: and they'll hire you for something else. Or I'll be
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: hired to do a law firm treat and speak to partners,
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: but then they'll have me back to speak to associates
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: and it might be a whole different topic related to
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: business development. But that's wonderful because you really get to
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: know a client, you really get to like them, you
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: get to know their culture, and it just becomes frictionless
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: when you're doing work with them. So you know, those
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: are the things we kind of hope for as professionals,
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: and I try to think my clients want the same thing.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and you know so many times people think
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: business development, well, that's just to bring in new accounts, right, No, no,
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: right to talk about the share of wallet. And those
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: are your best customers because there you already have the relationship.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: Now you're identifying pain points for them, you're identifying solutions
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: for them, and if they were happy already, they'll be
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: even happier as you provide more value to them. So,
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: you know, business developm we sometimes get shut out once
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: the deal is converted. They go from being a prospect
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: to being a customer. Operations folks think, okay, well BD people,
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: you just go run away and go do go find
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: more leads for me. No, because we can help grow
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: those existing accounts for you by the relationships that we're
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: building and we're identifying those opportunities to expand the network.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: And leverage those referrals. So wow, wonderful tactic number two,
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: which is networking from a position of a giving place.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: Right at the end of the day, it's all about
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: how much value can we give to our existing customers. Okay, Deborah,
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: last one, let's dig into the final tactic that you
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: talked about, which is you know, kind of alluded to.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: It's this place of authentic giving, creating content that really
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: provides value. Can you talk a little bit more about that?
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: Oh? Sure, I mean I think you know, once you
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: have a niche in place, once you are aware of
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: how you want to promote your business and what your
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: business is, what your best use is, it's so important
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: to think who is my client, who is my potential client,
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: who's the potential referral source out there, and to provide
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: them with information. And I'm not a big direct mail person.
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: I don't believe in doing it all the time. I
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: don't believe in reaching out to my clients with lots
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: of materials, but I do try to do it selectively.
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: So if I hear from a client and you know
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: that they're interested in something, and I hear it from
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: a second source, then I start thinking, well, wait, a second,
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: Maybe there's a need for something, let me address that.
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: And what's nice about doing LinkedIn every week is that
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: every weekend I need to sit down and think, what
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: are the pain points? What are those things that are
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: bothering my clients or my prospects. Is it that they're overworked?
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: Maybe I should do something on time management? And no,
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: I'm not a time management coach, but I've worked with
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: people who have had issues getting work done, issues doing
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: business development. What can I add? Or I'll speak with
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: a firm that is having some issue with hiring great
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: you know, speakers for programs, and I'll hear about it
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: again and again, and so I'll prepare content on how
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: you go about hiring a speaker, what the questions you
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: want to ask are, what the follow up should be,
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: which should be in the contract. And so I'm really
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: looking for those pain points that are important to people
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: that are both within my niche and within the marketplace.
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: And I do the same with my clients. Whether it's
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: an issue dealing with you know, new edicts coming from
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: the government and they know that their clients are concerned,
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: or if it's about pricing and the use of AI,
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: I try to get them to address those things for
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: their clients and to think about it strategically so that
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: they're not just putting out the same paper, the same
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: document year after year.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Deborah, that is great. You know so many people think, oh, content,
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: I have to be on LinkedIn and I have to
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: crank out content every day, or I have to work
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: with marketing and come up with some bland brochure that
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: I send to all of my clients and prospects, and
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: it really they're low in value. And I think what
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: you're also saying is it doesn't need to be complex.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: It doesn't need to be hours and hours of creating
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: some masterful piece of content that's filled with value. It
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: can just be a simple Hey, I think I found
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: a new opportunity for you, mister or missus client, or hey,
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: i think I've found I may I've found a new attorney.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: They're looking for a new role and they have a
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: great book of business they can bring to your firm.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Are you interested in an intro? I mean I've done
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: things like that that's highly personalized. We talk about highly
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: personalized content. That's highly personalized content, folks, that's a lot
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: of value and that I mean talk about your customer
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: being so happy or your prospect being so happy when
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: you're bringing new business to them, you're bringing new talent
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: to them. They love it. They love it. Yeah, you
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: can go ahead and send them that piece of content
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: that you generated with marketing that is valuable. I'm not
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: saying don't do that, but I think what the key
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: takeaway from what you're saying, Debra is, at the end
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: of the day, I start from a position of giving,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: you know what is what can really help my prospect,
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: what can really help my client. Well, Delbert, you've really
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: helped us today with your top three tactics, and we'll
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: just summarize them real quickly here, folks. Tactic number one is, hey,
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: remember what Sunseu said, tactics without strategy is the noise
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: before defeat. Have a strong strategy for engaging your ICP
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: and then pick the right tools that you feel comfortable with,
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: that you can be proficient at, and that work and
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: deliver results for you. The second one is networking. Networking
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: from a position of giving networking with those second and
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: third level relations relationships, but also more importantly, network with
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: your existing customers there as advocates, and they can generate
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: tremendous referral and advocacy for you. And then finally content,
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: content from a position of giving. It's not those big,
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: long pieces of email. It's really thoughtful, even the small
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: things that can make a big difference for your customers. Deborah,
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: I know you make a big difference for a lot
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: of law firms and your clients out there. How can
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: folks follow your work? How can they connect with you?
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: The best way is probably LinkedIn. They can follow me there.
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: I do post regularly, so that's a great way. And
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: if they want to reach me, it's just Deborah Atfarownadvisors
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: dot com. So either through LinkedIn or through my email
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: would be wonderful.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: And don't forget folks. You could get a copy of
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Debora's books. She has a couple of books on Amazon,
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: but Best Practices in Law Firm, Business Development and Marketing.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: It's on Amazon and Kindle hardcover paperback, and it's also
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: available on PLI dot edu that's p as in Papa
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: Ellis andleimaias in India dot edu. Check it out there
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: or check it out on Amazon. Very accessible, not just
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: for attorneys, but for anybody that's in the business development profession,
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: particularly professional services. Grab a copy of his book, Reach
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: out to Deborah on LinkedIn and follow her work.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: And Tony, I should also mention my new book that
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: will be out in January. If people are interested in
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: pre ordering, they can order it at PLI dot edu
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: slash Breaking Ground, or they can come to my website
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: and get information about it, and in fact, on my
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: website if you go to it, I think there might
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: even be a discount code. I'll check on that, but
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: we might be able to give you your viewers and
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: listeners a discount code. But that's Breaking Ground and that's
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: coming out very shortly.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: All right, Well, I can't wait to read that one
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: shortly here. I think January timeframe is when you plan
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: to publish and go to market.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: Right up January it will be out.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: Okay, Well, hey, if you can't wait until then, grab
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: a copy of Deborah's existing book. Again, it's on Amazon,
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: and it's on another source we mentioned p l I
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: dot du. Check it out and that'll be a good
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: preface to what will probably be a holiday present for
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: the next book that comes out in January for a
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: lot of people. So, Deborah far Own, thank you so
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: much for sharing your wisdom. Your insights with us today
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: and thank you for being a real pioneer for so
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: many folks coming after you in the business development profession.
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Debra, Thank you Tony, it was a pleasure.
• 31:51
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• 31:55
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• 32:00
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• 32:04
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