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Shadow Work for Regaining Your Power (with Luke Adler) · Evolutionary Men

0:00
Jason Lange: All right, and welcome back, everybody.
0:03
Excited to once again be joined by Dr.
0:07
Luke Adler for another Shadow Work 4 series.
0:11
And this, this, this episode, we're going to be talking about
0:15
shadow work for regaining your power.
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So this is a really common
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cut of the work Luke and I have been doing with guys over the last couple years in
0:26
our The Heart of Shadow program and our individual coaching that I think is going to be
0:32
particularly useful and applicable for nice guys and really for anyone, though,
0:38
in a time in our culture where I think
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power itself
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can be a edgy and triggering word, but one that, you
0:49
know, we're working hard as men, as leaders,
0:53
as husbands, fathers
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to find a right relationship towards.
0:58
And certainly I know I could speak from my side.
1:01
From what I know of you, Luke, I think you would agree with me that this moment in
1:05
time, what the world needs is more powerful, healthy, integrated men who can stand
1:11
in that power.
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Very clearly.
1:14
Luke Adler: Yeah, we have the contrast to that which is
1:18
top down power, power over,
1:20
which really seeks to perpetuate a dynamic of if I have power that necessitates that
1:26
you don't have power, you're less than me.
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And so you're subservient, you're in a diminished position.
1:31
And so you, the choices you have are to take a,
1:36
if you're power under, to take a position of pleasing or a position of
1:43
not rocking the boat or walking on eggshells or being a nice guy,
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being a pleasing nice
1:51
guy who is totally
1:54
attuned
1:56
to the power up position and looking around,
2:01
anticipating needs,
2:04
being careful not to get yelled at,
2:07
being perfect
2:10
so as not to experience the scorn of the power position.
2:14
And our work is about entirely breaking that model apart and moving into
2:20
what we call
2:22
a dynamic of relationality where there's room for you and there's room for me.
2:27
And of course, Jason and I exemplify this in our work, our partnership and the heart
2:32
of Shadow, where there's room for him to lead and there's room for me to lead and
2:36
there's room for me to make mistakes and Jason to make mistakes and there's just
2:41
room to be human together.
2:42
And it's so delightful
2:46
to be in that kind of shared power position where it's not about Jason shining or me
2:51
shining or even us both shining.
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It's not about shining, it's about being in relationship, sharing our gifts and
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drawing those out of other people.
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And that's really at the heart of what we do in the heart of shadow is we
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allow power to actually come into the relational dynamic
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and let it be a central feature of our creativity, of our dreaming, of
3:18
our purpose, of our vision, and that it can be clunky and it can be awkward at
3:24
times, and it can
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be something we sort out and discover together.
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And that's the key feature.
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We're engaging
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in a joint exploration of power.
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And one euphemism for power is really energy.
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Energy that has the capacity to flow.
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And so we can bring in plenty of metaphors around there.
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But I'll take a pause there for.
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For a moment.
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Jason Lange: Well, yeah, I think that's a great place
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to.
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To.
3:55
To dial in on because right, the.
3:58
We start this episode and it's like, well, what do you mean by power?
4:01
And there's a lot of ways to talk about that, that the energetic flow like you
4:05
talked about, is one way we actually work with this in men.
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And we'll.
4:09
We'll dial into that more.
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And you know, over the last couple
4:15
years in men's work, how I've, you know, just started talking to clients about it
4:18
pretty simply is just the capacity to move toward what we want, right?
4:23
And so you said a movement of energy.
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So being able to move towards what I want, I'm in my power, right?
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I'm able to go for things.
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Doesn't mean I get everything I want necessarily, but I'm able to take
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action
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that has some kind of impact on my relationships, my environment, et cetera, to
4:43
hopefully get me closer to something I want.
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And when we're not in our power,
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that's where, you know, we work with a lot of men.
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I've been there before.
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We often feel stuck, right?
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I'm stuck.
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I'm not in my power.
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This thing keeps happening with my spouse or my boss keeps treating me this way, and
5:01
I can't do anything about it, right?
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So I.
5:04
I don't feel like I'm in my power in that often.
5:08
Like you said, there's.
5:09
There's an actual energetic
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to that.
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And
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for nice guys in particular,
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I would say it often relates to the lower body, right?
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To our hara, our center, our dantian, our cock, our balls.
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All of that area kind of down here in our gut to our kind of perineum is.
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Is what I would say and you know, most traditions say is kind of the source of this
5:38
type of power we're talking about.
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We sometimes talk about it in our program too, is just desire, right?
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Desire and power are often linked.
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Like, I want to move towards that.
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I'm not in my power.
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I'm like, fuck, I can't get a girlfriend.
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I have no desire.
5:52
Right.
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I feel totally stuck or numb.
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And as we disconnect from this, for all kinds of reasons, we'll talk about
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stuckness, flatness, numbness are often really strong results
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of that.
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And you know, we tend to approach things from more the kind of shadow, energetic
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side of things.
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But, you know, you basically dive into any
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martial arts and this is what they talk about.
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This is where your power comes from.
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It comes from your center, right.
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You actually punch from here, you move through the room from here, you find your
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center here.
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It's all located in this part of the body in a pretty significant way.
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And I don't think that's a coincidence, right.
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In terms of what we're talking about, of breath comes from here, power comes from
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here, sexuality comes from here.
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And I think we're living in a moment in time
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where we've seen
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so many examples of the power over
6:53
dynamic you were talking about, particularly through the patriarchy, through men,
6:58
through the masculine, which is, well, I'm going to go for what I want, and I don't
7:02
give a shit how it impacts you or the environment or other people.
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And in fact, I don't want you to have power because that would threaten
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my capacity to move towards what I want and get what I want.
7:18
Right.
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So I actually want to keep you down there.
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And, you know, nice guy stuff can certainly start just in family dynamics.
7:27
But part of what we're talking about here is an actual cultural layer, right.
7:31
So many of us have seen
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that and are still seeing the impact and the consequences of that.
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And there's been this kind of
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allergic response to that, I think, in a lot of men of, oh, well, then I don't want
7:45
to be the power over guy.
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I don't want to be the macho jerk, the
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caveman, the sex abuser, any of that.
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And you know, in.
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Yeah, one of my teachers basically puts it as, you know, we develop these allergies
8:00
to certain energies in our life, which is like, we want to get away from it.
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And that has shown up in all, certainly in myself, in so many of our men, of this
8:10
energy of power, of fire, of desire.
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All these things that are located kind of down here in the gut and the belly and the
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cock.
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Luke Adler: Yeah, I love that you brought in the anatomy of power.
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That's exactly how we relate to it.
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And we experience it not only in our work, but of course, as human beings.
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The, the.
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The groundation of, of the kind of epicenter from which power arises
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is in that pelvic region that's the seed of our biological imperative, you know,
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fundamentally just to keep life moving, get the next generation out there into
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existence.
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And
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we're.
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We're immediately in touch with that primal desire to just keep life
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moving when we touch power to keep life perpetuating.
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And anything that's important to us is connected to that feeling, that feeling that
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lo.
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That actual locality in our body.
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So
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we have this archetypal arrangement of the nice guy, which defaults in the cultural
9:16
field to being power under
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what is actually happening
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in our bodies
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when our power
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is offline or our power is diminished.
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And
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we could use the word clog or stuckness when
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we talk about our power diminished because
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it's not that we're depleted or that we're exhausted per se, it's that we're cut off
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from our power.
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There's a clog in the pipe,
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there's a stuckness in the system.
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And
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what is that made of?
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What does that constitute?
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That's actually keeping us from expressing and not just perhaps we are
10:06
in touch with our power, but it's not moving, it's blocked by something.
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And in the archetypal arrangement of the nice guy,
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we are holding not only our own pain often,
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but we're holding the pain of the person who we're holding above us.
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We're holding their pain.
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And we call that empathic reversal or blind compassion or
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neurotic compassion, as one of our teachers describes it.
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It's holding the compassion for the other because they refuse it to
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hold it for themselves.
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And we implicitly feel afraid
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that if they feel their power,
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they're going to fall apart.
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So we do the psycho emotional work of both people in the relationship.
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And in a way, we participate in the dynamic
11:02
of power over, power under.
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We hold the clog.
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And of course, that comes into our bodies as stagnation.
11:12
Yes, diminished energy, adrenal fatigue.
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What does, what does
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Dr.
11:19
Glover, Robert Glover, say about men typically who do this?
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It's really fascinating.
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Almost.
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In every case that he's studied,
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men of that archetype have some kind of sexual dysfunction.
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It's fascinating.
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So premature ejaculation, delayed ejaculation,
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erectile dysfunction,
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any kind of erectile issue, prostatic issue, urinary bladder issues, UTIs,
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chronic fatigue syndrome, chronic regional pain syndrome, all of this
11:58
exhaustive
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energy presentations because that whole glandular system, all the endocrine function
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of the testicles is diminished.
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So you have an up chain reaction where the adrenals are not functioning, the
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thyroid's not functioning, the thymus, the pineal gland, sleeps off Digestion's off.
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And so you have this down and upstream dysfunction because we're not in touch with
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what you and I often call Jason.
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Vitality is one of the markers of our program, The Heart of Shadow.
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Get in touch with your vitality.
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So that's the clog.
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Now the question is why?
12:38
How do you do that?
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How's that happen?
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Jason Lange: Well, that's the great work here, you know, and shadow work, this thing, you know,
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we're so passionate about and we have this whole program around, is really kind of a
12:52
two step process of often identifying
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what happened,
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right.
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To change the natural flow of that circuit.
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Because we're not born that way with our power offline, right.
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I got a almost 2 year old upstairs and he has no problem
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expressing himself, his anger, his power, his desire, and letting us know with his
13:14
whole body right now.
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Right?
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And all of us are born that way.
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And then something happens though, in our environment, in our family system, in our
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culture that gives us a lived experience of hey, that's not okay or not safe or
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that's going to be met with
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domination or, you know, who knows what it is.
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And so there's often some kind of fracture in our, in our body, mind, in our
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energetic system where we start to shut that down, reroute it, whatever that might
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be.
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So part of shadow work is becoming aware of that, like, hey, what, where did I learn
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this habit?
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Right?
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When did I learn this habit?
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And then, you know, the second part is the actual
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practice of, okay, now what the fuck do I do about that?
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This is where a lot of work stops, is, you know, we can sit, we can do shadow work,
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you and I can journal it.
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Oh yeah, here's the moment.
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I can go talk to my
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talk therapist and have the insight about the family system.
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But that doesn't do the integration, the practice of okay, now what does it mean to
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actually
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reconnect that power source inside me and how do I do that in, you know,
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men's work, men's groups, shadow work, like we do, I think is kind of the best place
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I've found
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to do that because it's interactive, it's a group and it's a safe place.
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And this is going to be a strange word to bring in here, but it's a safe place to
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play with the energy.
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And, you know, this is something I've been talking about a lot more now that the
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whole purpose of retreats or altered state experiences or doing deep work with guys
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like us is, is we actually go and we dabble in the extremes Right.
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We have to discover where too far is to know where just right is.
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And you want to do that in a safe container.
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And, you know, this is, again, something that is pretty natural in
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the world.
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You know, we often talk about it.
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Best example I can always portray is dogs tussling.
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Like, you see dogs playing with each other and they're.
15:22
They're roughhousing, right?
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They get in there, they're growling, they're biting each other's necks.
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They're really going for it.
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And then eventually what you hear is
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someone went a little too far,
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right?
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And then the dogs adjust.
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Hey, that's my power level.
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I can do that.
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So now I know kind of where to go, but I also know where I can play, right?
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What it means to just tussle.
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And that play space.
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I think in all, all kinds of ways we talk about in our program, just play in general
15:52
has evaporated for so many men.
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You know,
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I think, you know, our generation was maybe kind of the last free range generation
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where it was just like, hey, kids, see you, see you tomorrow.
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Just like kick you outside and you figure shit out.
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And a lot of that was discovering through play.
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Oh, yeah, I injured you, I hurt you.
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Now I have to deal with that.
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Now I have to adjust.
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Like when we wrestle, what does that mean?
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Or we get into a fight or
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all that kind of stuff.
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And I think in a lot of ways, even in a non nice guy family, a lot of that's being
16:23
removed.
16:24
And men don't have safe places to play and actually feel their power of, oh,
16:30
wow, I could actually bring a lot of force here and hurt you.
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Or I could scream, or I could bring energy through.
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And it's through that play we actually get to learn and we get to know the energy
16:41
optimally.
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So if we're ever in, you know, an actual situation, we can use appropriate
16:48
power or force or whatever that might be in.
16:51
You know, just before I forget, I'll
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tag this on.
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You know,
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Amir Khalighi, who I've had on my podcast before, is a beautiful men's work teacher I
17:03
did some martial arts with in the desert many moons ago.
17:06
And he had this great thing from his martial arts lineage that's just, you know,
17:10
basically
17:12
real power is the ability to use force to create safety when needed,
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like that.
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We want men who are in their power in that sense that I have the capacity to
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bring force
17:27
to create safety for me, for people around me, et cetera.
17:32
And it's not about
17:33
dominating the person, but it's actually about creating safety.
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And I Think that's part of the vacuum we're at in our world right now, where
17:42
without strong masculine figures who can step into
17:48
wise use of power and force in a sense to create safety, we're just
17:53
seeing the devastation of who fills in those gaps.
17:57
And that's like at a cultural level.
17:59
And you know, we've worked with plenty of men who one of the things they have to
18:04
most deeply work in their relationship to their power is often their own father,
18:09
right?
18:09
And when he didn't
18:12
stand in his power to protect them as a son, you know, I saw my dad just as a
18:18
doormat or he never spoke up for me, or he never da, da, da, da, da, da.
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And it has a deep wound of, hey, wow, I never felt safe because no one ever stepped
18:27
in to protect me
18:29
or, you know, certainly the counter as well.
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My dad had no
18:34
calibration
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with his screaming, his force, his aggression, and it was just an unconscious dump
18:41
all the time that wreaked havoc on me, my nervous system, my siblings, you know, my
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mother,
18:48
whoever, and I sure as shit don't ever want to be that.
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So that's where that allergy kind of develops.
18:54
But this is the appropriate,
18:57
you know, deep sacred work, I think, of what it means to cultivate, you know, our
19:02
power, which is often linked, as we'll talk more about, to our anger, to our rage,
19:06
to that energetic of something coming up and out of us to change the moment.
19:12
Luke Adler: Well said, Jason.
19:13
Very
19:14
beautiful and poignant example there of your own father, which, you know, I can
19:18
relate to.
19:21
What's powerful about everything that we're saying and you're highlighting here is
19:25
that
19:27
particularly in this program, the heart of shadow that we run and in shadow work,
19:34
the remediating factor that actually makes the healing work and progress,
19:38
particularly over time, is that the work is being done with men.
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And
19:45
because the default
19:47
culture of
19:49
pain and abuse, I'd say
19:53
is
19:54
typically top down masculine over feminine,
19:59
healing in a group of men
20:02
over time
20:06
enables that mending, that safety to build and grow.
20:11
And that's the thing that you and I are both passionate with regards to.
20:16
The Heart of Shadow is this long term model of a men's group, a men's
20:22
work shadow group
20:26
that has the capacity to hold depth,
20:30
pain,
20:31
wounding, our history, our visions, our aspirations, our sexuality, our narration,
20:36
our entire lives.
20:39
That's different from say a men's group that's just more of a check in style, which
20:43
of course we love.
20:44
We have those groups too, that's more just kind of dipping your, your toes in the
20:49
water and Saying, okay, let's.
20:50
Let's just like, try to be around other men and, and talk about something other than
20:55
sports, you know, or
20:58
politics, for that matter.
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So The Heart of Shadow is this environment where we create.
21:05
We create safety in a sequential manner for men to begin to
21:11
identify
21:14
with their bodies
21:16
what's stuck, what's clogged up in their system and begin to
21:22
regain, like you said, Jason, maybe initially
21:25
the explosive volcanic nature of the power that has been held down there for
21:32
many decades.
21:34
And yes, it's, It's.
21:35
It can be quite.
21:36
It can be quite big initially.
21:40
Eventually that titrates down to having our power on tap, or as our.
21:45
One of our teachers says, having your anger on tap.
21:47
It's right there like a.
21:48
Like you're.
21:49
You're tapping a keg, so to speak.
21:52
There it is.
21:52
I just pull on it.
21:53
It's right there.
21:54
So that's, that's why the work works over time.
21:57
And we see men,
21:59
of course,
22:00
ourselves, but we see men in our program
22:03
heal, really heal and grow and develop as they template,
22:08
mentor, parent, father, love, brother, on each other over time in a space of
22:13
authentic depth
22:15
where their strength and power can be right online with their deepest pain and
22:20
wounding.
22:21
That those can coexist.
22:24
Now just let that sit with you for a while.
22:26
If you're listening to that, that your vulnerability,
22:29
your tears,
22:31
your broken heart can coexist with your ferocity,
22:36
your raw,
22:38
animalistic strength and both be totally awake.
22:44
That's something that is.
22:47
Is not visible at the surface level of culture.
22:50
You can't point to culture and go, yeah, I know a lot of guys who do that.
22:53
That's not the culture.
22:55
The culture's power over, power under.
22:58
What we're bringing forward in Heart of Shadow is
23:02
mutual power, mutual pain.
23:04
There's enough room for your history, your pain and wounding, and all of your power,
23:09
vision and aspiration.
23:13
That's what we do.
23:14
So
23:16
what is it that's hard right there in the moment when we're with our spouse, our
23:21
coworker, our boss, our employee, our children,
23:26
to share power.
23:27
What is it that makes us take the position of power under or perhaps power over?
23:34
Well, we'll look at power under.
23:37
Typically, it's that we don't want to hurt this person.
23:40
We don't want them.
23:41
We don't want them to feel the pain that we're currently feeling.
23:45
Or perhaps we know that they're in pain
23:48
and we don't want to add to it.
23:52
Simultaneously, we know that if we continue this dynamic and don't share
23:57
what we have to say it's going to perpetuate the painful dynamic.
24:02
Or in most cases,
24:03
we are going to take it on.
24:06
We're going to take it on and take it into our body and we're going to clog the pipe
24:11
and feel even more stuck.
24:14
So it's a dilemma.
24:16
And I talk to men, of course, even in myself, because power is just an
24:21
ever present dynamic, relationally speaking, it's always being approached.
24:30
How do you
24:32
engage with someone and
24:35
be sensitive enough
24:37
to share what needs to be shared
24:40
and let there be room for them
24:45
and let there be room for yourself?
24:48
And so part of shared power is
24:50
letting there be some process around it.
24:53
Because the default of the nervous system is to fight,
24:58
flight or freeze, please.
25:00
It's to go into attack mode, move outside of your body, or to move
25:06
deeply into your body, to retreat.
25:07
You know, it's retreat, attack.
25:11
And so the key for exploring your power is to slow it down,
25:15
slow it way down.
25:17
As one of my friends and I have coined, let the meat rest.
25:22
You take the steaks out of the grill and you let the meat rest.
25:25
You don't just dig into them, ah, like an animal, you just know,
25:31
let the meat cool down a bit.
25:35
Let your nervous system calm down from the fight, from the freeze, from the please.
25:40
Especially the please.
25:41
The please one's very tricky to,
25:43
to identify because it's like, oh, let me diffuse this bomb as quickly as possible.
25:47
It's so uncomfortable.
25:49
I just, I, I just want everyone to feel calm again.
25:53
It's.
25:53
This feels like my family.
25:55
Dad's yelling again.
25:56
Oh my God.
25:56
What, how, what can I do to be the hero child, the nice guy?
26:00
No,
26:02
resist that urgent.
26:04
Let the meat rest.
26:07
Bring the temperature down.
26:12
Jason Lange: And then this is.
26:13
Luke Adler: Go ahead.
26:14
Jason Lange: You know, so key, I think part of what we're talking about here, this is where when
26:19
I say the practice or the skill building of what do we do with it?
26:23
Right?
26:23
So the intense charge comes up often.
26:28
And okay, how do we work with that?
26:30
Right, what do we do with that?
26:31
And you know, what we have found is, yeah, you can definitely work with it.
26:34
And it's actually the most natural path in the world in some sense.
26:38
But with most people there becomes a clog somewhere.
26:42
And so it's like this energy starts
26:44
Luke Adler: to
26:47
Jason Lange: heat up in our lower body.
26:49
Whether that's desire,
26:51
whether that's anger, frustration,
26:54
wanting to move in some capacity or protect.
26:58
And then the natural kind of movement is for it to come up and out in some way.
27:04
Up and out often,
27:06
most skillfully in some kind of spoken
27:10
Relational way for a lot of guys.
27:13
Yeah.
27:13
It gets stuck somewhere, right?
27:15
And then when it gets stuck, it does a couple of things.
27:19
It either just stays there.
27:21
We kind of dissociate from.
27:25
Shoots out in all directions unconsciously through our hands, through our shoulders,
27:30
right through our eyes, through our voice,
27:33
or sometimes it does come out, but then it just comes right back and hits us in the
27:37
face.
27:38
It's got, like, a boomerang attached to it.
27:42
But the optimal path is when we can kind of like, bring it up and, you know, let the
27:46
stake rest in my mind in a lot of ways, is let it simmer in the heart.
27:51
It's like when we let that energy simmer in the heart and rest there, something
27:56
happens that when it comes out, it comes out differently,
28:00
right, Than just the raw expression of it.
28:04
And that is hard
28:06
work to learn, because most of us never had it modeled in
28:12
any way.
28:13
And I think it's why
28:16
power can get a bad rap
28:19
in some sense.
28:20
But when it's, you know, fueled through the heart, it becomes this incredibly
28:26
sacred thing.
28:27
Like, we want.
28:28
I want people to be in their power, right?
28:32
And I think part of what we've seen in.
28:34
In this, you know, change of the.
28:36
From power over and power under to.
28:39
Well, I want to be in my power, and I want my power to actually support you
28:45
in being in your power.
28:46
So we start to empower each other, right?
28:49
I think that is one of the new markers of healthy masculinity,
28:55
is actually how much do I empower the people around me without
29:00
abandoning myself
29:02
and the work of doing that, you know, it's tough.
29:05
It takes us into some pretty challenging places and knots and clogs and
29:10
dissociations and memories and.
29:12
And pains in our nervous system that, you know, shadow work, I think, is
29:16
particularly apt at working with and rerouting and repatterning,
29:22
and particularly in a group where we get to start to see what it looks like and feel
29:27
it and meet another man in his power.
29:30
When we're in our power and see, oh, that's what it looks like collapse.
29:34
That's what it looks like to express.
29:36
Fuck.
29:36
That's what it looks like in that sweet spot where I trust this man more to be
29:42
in his power, to speak his desires, to say his truth.
29:48
And
29:49
it's something,
29:51
you know, we want all guys listening to come and work with us individually in our
29:56
The Heart of Shadow program.
29:57
We got another cohort coming up here in September 2026 with an Austin
30:02
retreat.
30:03
And even before that, we have a little webinar we're working on coming up here on
30:10
Monday, August 24,
30:12
Rage and Anger, how to wisely channel your power as a man.
30:17
Luke and I will be leading you guys through kind of a group experiential process and
30:23
you'll get to work with each other to, to learn how to work specifically with rage
30:27
and anger, which are two parts
30:29
of this whole power energetic that we're talking about.
30:33
And how really taking responsibility for how do we work with this consciously is the
30:38
road to this healthy power that we've been talking about.
30:42
And that's Monday, August 24, 6:30pm Mountain, 5:30pm
30:48
Pacific.
30:49
And you can just go to Evolutionary Men Rage.
30:53
And you can opt in right there.
30:55
It's free.
30:55
You'll get to meet us in person.
30:56
We'll probably do a little shadow work with a couple of guys as well.
31:01
And
31:03
you don't have to stay stuck, right?
31:06
I think that's the key here that
31:09
I have experienced in my life what it means to get some of my power back in my
31:14
ability, like I said, to express, to move towards, to have desire again
31:19
at even deeper levels.
31:21
And I couldn't have done it without you and without shadow work.
31:26
Luke Adler: So great to be with you, brother.
31:27
And
31:28
join us for the webinar.
31:29
If you're interested in The Heart of Shadow, you'll find us on those websites and we'd
31:32
love to work with you guys.