Latest / True Crime with Gavin Fish / Latest Clues Indicate Nancy Guthrie was Specifically Chosen by Her Kidnappers Because of Savannah

Transcript

Latest Clues Indicate Nancy Guthrie was Specifically Chosen by Her Kidnappers Because of Savannah · True Crime with Gavin Fish

• 0:02
  I don't know about you, but for me, today has already been a
• 0:06
  very good day. I need to get my desk in order.
• 0:08
  In fact, I need to. I need to clean my entire
• 0:11
  office. This is horrible and I need to
• 0:14
  be treating my wife better. My office is so messy it has
• 0:17
  spilled out into the landing outside the office.
• 0:21
  Nevertheless, today has been a great day.
• 0:23
  Why has it been a great day, Gavin?
• 0:25
  I'm glad you asked because today I learned a new phrase and I got
• 0:29
  to learn something new. And I love days where something
• 0:34
  big happens where I learned something new.
• 0:36
  And it has to do with this case, the case of missing octogenarian
• 0:41
  Nancy Guthrie. As you guys know, Savannah
• 0:45
  Guthrie, Nancy Guthrie's daughter, who is the one of the
• 0:50
  hosts of NB CS Today show over the last couple of days has done
• 0:56
  an interview with her colleague. And I shared a little bit of
• 1:03
  that over in the fish tank. And somebody brought up
• 1:09
  something that I guess the concept wasn't foreign to me,
• 1:13
  but the term was. And that term was parasocial
• 1:16
  relationship. Had never heard that term
• 1:19
  before. So I got to dig into it and son
• 1:22
  of a gun, it definitely applies. We're going to talk about it.
• 1:27
  I hope you guys stick around. We're also there's an update in
• 1:30
  the Jeffrey Spence trial and the murder of Kirby Carpenter.
• 1:35
  There's an update in the Rebecca Harrow situation.
• 1:38
  She is the mother of Emmanuel Harrow, the seven month little
• 1:41
  baby boy whose body is still yet to be recovered.
• 1:45
  And man, what is the other story that I have for you?
• 1:48
  I have. I have a few.
• 1:50
  Oh, and Harvey Weinstein of all things.
• 1:54
  So we've got Nancy Guthrie, we've got Jeff Spence, we have
• 1:58
  got Rebecca Harrow and Harvey Weinstein.
• 2:01
  It's going to be a busy night. I'm glad you've joined me.
• 2:03
  Stick with me. This video contains mature
• 2:18
  themes and discussions intended only for adult audiences.
• 2:22
  Viewer discretion is advised. Hello there, my friend, and
• 2:27
  welcome back to another true crime conversation with me,
• 2:31
  Gavin Fish. You know why else is another?
• 2:33
  Why else? Javi, can I get a take two on
• 2:36
  that? I need to learn language here.
• 2:38
  You know the other reason why today is a good day?
• 2:41
  Because I feel like I look good today.
• 2:43
  I feel like today has been a good look.
• 2:45
  You know what I did today? I decided to dress it up.
• 2:47
  I'm not wearing jeans. I'm wearing trousers.
• 2:50
  And I got this nice little linen shirt that makes me feel a
• 2:55
  little fancier today. Yeah.
• 2:58
  So I feel good. I feel like I look good.
• 3:01
  I learned a new term. I got to dig in.
• 3:04
  It's been a great day, but it's not a great day.
• 3:07
  Oops. I'm bumping my mic.
• 3:08
  Sorry about that. It's not a great day for the
• 3:10
  family of Nancy Guthrie. And they are the people that we
• 3:13
  should have our minds on right now.
• 3:15
  The narcissistic side of Gavin just needs to let it go.
• 3:19
  Let it go. We got to think about others,
• 3:21
  Gavin, let's do this, OK? Nancy Guthrie, 84 years old, has
• 3:26
  been missing since February 1st. So what are we at?
• 3:31
  Well, we're, we're closing down our second month of her missing
• 3:37
  and it appears that we're no closer to finding her abductor,
• 3:44
  her kidnapper 2 months on now. There was a terrific and I like,
• 3:52
  guys, I don't like staged things.
• 3:55
  I just don't like staged things. But I also understand that this
• 3:58
  is a different situation, right? That like, how do you, how do
• 4:03
  you know how to behave if you're a family member of Nancy Guthrie
• 4:07
  right now? How do you know how the
• 4:11
  interview with Savannah Guthrie certainly was staged?
• 4:13
  It it just was because the nature of it, right?
• 4:18
  They had to prepare for it. And and I normally don't like
• 4:21
  that sort of stuff, but I thought the Savannah Guthrie did
• 4:24
  a very, very good job and and answered a couple of questions
• 4:31
  that have been lingering out there.
• 4:33
  And then, like I said in the in the open, I want to get into
• 4:39
  this idea of what a parasocial relationship is because I think
• 4:42
  it very might this might well be that situation.
• 4:47
  OK, now before I go dive too deeply into this, I, for those
• 4:52
  of you who are new, I love learning where you are tuning in
• 4:58
  from tuning in being an old timey word.
• 5:00
  I AM 50 years old. I'm kind of an old timey guy.
• 5:03
  I don't know what what we should say tuning in, I don't know
• 5:08
  browsing in, I don't know. But wherever you're tuning in
• 5:11
  from, please put it in the comments.
• 5:13
  If you're live here on YouTube right now, put it in the live
• 5:17
  chat. If you're listening or watching
• 5:19
  on Spotify, quick little plug for the channel Spotify where on
• 5:24
  every night I upload right after this video.
• 5:26
  So if it's more convenient for you to listen or watch later,
• 5:31
  Spotify is a great place to do that.
• 5:34
  And there's always a link down in the description below.
• 5:36
  OK, tell me where you're tuning in from.
• 5:39
  I just, I don't know. I like that.
• 5:41
  And I like, I like hearing that there are people that are close
• 5:44
  by and that there are people far, far away.
• 5:47
  So. So put that in the comments,
• 5:48
  please. And while you do that, we'll get
• 5:52
  to your comments here in just a little bit.
• 5:54
  I want to start out with this clip.
• 5:57
  This clip is from Savannah Guthrie's interview with Hoda
• 6:02
  Kotb. It's about two minutes and 40
• 6:06
  seconds long. Let's start here and then we can
• 6:11
  go to your comments. Again for noobs #1 thank you for
• 6:16
  being here. Number two, put your thoughts in
• 6:20
  the in the comments. Put GF in your comment.
• 6:23
  That will help me to see it, OK? It does not stand for
• 6:26
  girlfriend. It does not stand for gluten
• 6:28
  free. It stands for Gavin.
• 6:31
  Fish. Your GF that that didn't come
• 6:35
  out OK, but you know what I mean OK let's see let's listen to
• 6:39
  this clip right here to get us started from Savannah and hoda
• 6:45
  you saw Annie and Cam when you got.
• 6:47
  To. Their house.
• 6:49
  Tell me about that moment. Just disbelief and hugging each
• 6:55
  other. And I think we were on the phone
• 6:57
  with the sheriff and trying to, you know, really make clear as I
• 7:03
  mean, from the very early moments, you know, Annie and
• 7:06
  Tommy were saying this isn't this isn't that case that you
• 7:10
  are used to where someone wanders off.
• 7:12
  She can't wander off. This part is important.
• 7:16
  Sorry. Real quick, she's going to give
• 7:17
  us details on this. We, we know that from Sheriff
• 7:22
  Nanos, this guy right here. We, we know, or or at least we
• 7:28
  were told that she couldn't go 50 yards by herself, something
• 7:32
  like that, right? Savannah's going to give us some
• 7:34
  details on that. She was in tremendous pain.
• 7:38
  Her back was very bad. You know, she was trying to.
• 7:43
  On a good day she could walk down to the mailbox and get the
• 7:46
  mail, but most days not so. There was no wander off.
• 7:50
  OK, let me pause that here for a second.
• 7:52
  And the there's a little detail that came out from from the
• 7:58
  interview with Savannah Guthrie that I think is really important
• 8:01
  because not only was she not so ambulatory, I mean, she was
• 8:07
  ambulatory, right? But but not so much she's an 84
• 8:10
  year old woman. And there is a spectrum of how
• 8:14
  our bodies behave when we are aged like that, right?
• 8:18
  I mean, my grandmother on my mom's side when she was 84 was
• 8:23
  just completely everywhere. My grandmother on my dad's side
• 8:28
  did not make it to that age into her 60s.
• 8:31
  She couldn't move right. So there's this broad spectrum.
• 8:33
  Now the reason that that I wanted to posit here though, was
• 8:38
  think about the moment that this dill hole and probably his at
• 8:45
  least one but probably more Co conspirators went into that
• 8:50
  house when Nancy Guthrie was in bed, pulled her out of the bed.
• 8:58
  Think of the pain she would have been in based on the description
• 9:01
  that we heard from Savannah. It it makes me wonder, oh and I
• 9:06
  hate to think about this stuff, but it makes me wonder if she
• 9:10
  even could have survived that first night slash early morning
• 9:16
  assault. And the doors were popped open.
• 9:19
  Yeah. And there was blood.
• 9:21
  No, there had been reporting on this right that the doors were
• 9:25
  propped open. But this is Savannah saying it,
• 9:29
  that this is different than saying sources said that no,
• 9:32
  Savannah is saying this. The doors, the doors, the back
• 9:35
  door was propped open. Not in the front doors.
• 9:39
  And then blood on the. Ring camera had been yanked off
• 9:43
  and so we were saying this is do something.
• 9:47
  This is not OK. Yeah, this isn't.
• 9:51
  Something is very wrong here. Yeah.
• 9:54
  Did you guys talk about what possibly could have happened?
• 9:59
  Like what could have happened? What went down?
• 10:02
  Did you? I think my brother, I mean my
• 10:08
  siblings are so amazing. This part is heartbreaking.
• 10:12
  My brother, you know, he spent his career in the military and
• 10:19
  worked in intelligence and it's a fighter pilot and it's
• 10:24
  brilliant. And he saw very clearly right
• 10:30
  away what this was. And even on the phone when I
• 10:36
  called him, he knew. He knew.
• 10:39
  And he said, I think she's been kidnapped for ransom.
• 10:44
  And I said. Yeah, what?
• 10:47
  Well, why? What?
• 10:48
  And then I mean, it sounds so like how dumb could I be?
• 10:55
  But I just, I didn't want to believe.
• 10:57
  I just said, do you think because of me?
• 11:02
  Think about just the hard conversation that that you would
• 11:06
  be having with your sibling here, and this is evidence of a
• 11:10
  beautiful relationship with one's siblings.
• 11:14
  I happen to have this kind of relationship with my two
• 11:17
  brothers and my two sisters. There are five of us where we
• 11:21
  can speak candidly and lovingly with and just put it out there.
• 11:27
  But this is just heartbreaking. Do you think it was because of
• 11:32
  me? I said I'm sorry sweetie, but
• 11:42
  yeah, maybe. But I knew that.
• 11:47
  The honesty, though, is just inspiring.
• 11:52
  You did. I hope not.
• 11:56
  I mean, we still don't know. Honestly, we don't know
• 11:58
  anything. We don't know anything.
• 12:02
  Yeah, OK, we're pausing it there.
• 12:03
  That's the end of that clip. Who coming to the to the
• 12:10
  realization and saying out loud was this because of me?
• 12:14
  Of course it's not because of her and we're going to get into
• 12:17
  that, right? It's not because of her.
• 12:22
  I personally think it probably is a sick individual, or more
• 12:29
  more likely, more than one individual who has some sort of
• 12:36
  fixation on Savannah Guthrie. Or at least it's possible to me.
• 12:41
  We want to temper our speculation.
• 12:43
  Remember, we always want to temper our speculation with
• 12:45
  humanity and with compassion. And the compassionate side of me
• 12:49
  says, no, it's not because of you, Savannah Guthrie.
• 12:52
  It's because of that person. They may be using you as an
• 12:56
  excuse for their behavior, but it's not because of you.
• 13:02
  But I'm so touched by her brother being honest with her.
• 13:06
  Now the other part of me, I have to know something.
• 13:12
  Let me get into where this one right here.
• 13:16
  I want to see my color blind itself.
• 13:21
  Can't see the inscription on the, on the headrest of that
• 13:26
  plane, but I want to. Doesn't matter.
• 13:30
  See, as a, as a aviation enthusiast, I want to know what
• 13:35
  kind of plane that is. I feel like it's a serious or
• 13:37
  something like that, but I can't tell.
• 13:39
  It doesn't matter. Gavin.
• 13:40
  Doesn't matter. Don't get off on that tangent.
• 13:44
  But yeah, I, I think that Savannah Guthrie has given us a,
• 13:47
  a couple of big things there. One, her mom was in terrible
• 13:50
  pain. She had a hurt back #2 It was,
• 13:53
  it was hard for her to make it all the way out to the mailbox
• 13:55
  #3 think of the pain that she would have been in while she was
• 14:00
  being assaulted. And yes, it was an assault,
• 14:02
  right? She was in bed.
• 14:04
  We think she was in bed and assaulted by strangers in her
• 14:09
  home where she has been safe for 40 years.
• 14:13
  So not only the emotional and mental anguish, but the physical
• 14:19
  pain that we learned about in that clip and also may be an
• 14:24
  indication that there is a sick, sick individual who may be
• 14:29
  fixated on Savannah Guthrie and not because of her, but using
• 14:33
  the excuse of her for having attacked her mom.
• 14:38
  Let's go over to your comments before I go into the next clip.
• 14:45
  Let's see. Wow, so many, so many, John
• 14:51
  says. Just a heads up, the show didn't
• 14:55
  upload to Spotify last night yet.
• 14:57
  Actually last night, John, I, I had, I had one of those days
• 15:02
  where just the day got away from me and I was not able to live
• 15:05
  stream last night. So that's why I didn't show up
• 15:07
  on Spotify. It wasn't on YouTube either.
• 15:09
  I hate doing that. It's just it was one of the days
• 15:14
  where where my life outside of YouTube got in the way.
• 15:19
  I wasn't able to make it. Thank you for thank you for
• 15:24
  understanding. Beth is chiming in from
• 15:27
  northeast Alabama. Glad you are here.
• 15:30
  From Alabama. Where else have we got here?
• 15:34
  We've got San Jose in the house. Emmy.
• 15:37
  It's good to see you, Eileen. Hope, Ohio.
• 15:43
  Hopewell. Ceremonial mounds area.
• 15:45
  Glad you were here. Ohio is in the house.
• 15:49
  Keep on going down. Emmy does.
• 15:53
  Yeah. She is going to return in April
• 15:56
  on April 6th is what I understand.
• 16:00
  See if there are a couple of others.
• 16:02
  Might need to refresh here. Daytona Beach is in the house.
• 16:11
  Glad you are here. We.
• 16:14
  I heard about the Tiger Woods arrest.
• 16:15
  I haven't gotten into it. Scott's mom.
• 16:18
  No, no lives from last night. Just simply, yeah, just simply
• 16:22
  work got in the way. I I still have a day job as a
• 16:26
  reporter and working for a small, small company.
• 16:32
  We wear many hats and I just wasn't able to do it.
• 16:36
  So that's that's where it is, Mish says.
• 16:41
  Gavin, you always look good. Well, thank you very much.
• 16:43
  I feel good right now. Feel good.
• 16:46
  And yeah, I did toot my own horn just a little bit.
• 16:49
  It's true. I'm Goddess from Erie, PA.
• 16:53
  It's good to see you here. Thank you for being here.
• 16:56
  Seattle, WA and the House. North Carolina, Chicago,
• 16:59
  Southern California, Minnesota. New Bedford, Mass.
• 17:03
  Atlanta, GA. And Michelle Mangum is coming in
• 17:07
  where the horns are long and the stars are big and bright.
• 17:13
  I think I know where you are from.
• 17:15
  Tuning in from Arkansas as well. The UK is in the house.
• 17:18
  South Central Texas. Acton, Mass.
• 17:21
  Suffolk, VA. Montgomery, Pounty, Redding, CA
• 17:24
  Up in Redding, Yeah, north of my old stomping grounds.
• 17:30
  And jet girl. Good to see you from the other
• 17:33
  side of the state. So many people just tuning in
• 17:36
  from all over the place. Glad to see you all thank you
• 17:39
  very much TCF Iceland watching from Iceland.
• 17:42
  There's a snowstorm here right now, but we're just having a
• 17:45
  cozy time inside in the worth warmth.
• 17:49
  Iceland is a place that I really I have I've only spent time
• 17:52
  around Reykjavik. If you take Icelandic air guys,
• 17:56
  here is a here's just a little tip for people who may from the
• 18:02
  states want to travel to Europe for some reason.
• 18:05
  Now I'm a person who I I like to go on little trips.
• 18:10
  Most of my travel has been business related, but I've I've
• 18:12
  done my fair share of just travelling for fun.
• 18:17
  But here's a little tip, if you are wanting to go to the
• 18:24
  mainland Europe and you take Icelandic air, they don't
• 18:30
  increase the cost of your ticket.
• 18:32
  If you do a layover, and I mean like a day or two or three or a
• 18:35
  week layover in Iceland. And it is fun.
• 18:41
  It's a total tangent, but I'm telling you, take Icelandic air,
• 18:46
  hang out in Iceland for a little bit.
• 18:47
  You'll see a country that you wouldn't normally see.
• 18:50
  You can do your jet lag in there and then it's just a little hop
• 18:53
  over to like De Gaulle or want to go Orlando or something like
• 18:57
  that. Anyway, good to see you from
• 19:00
  Iceland. Glad you are here.
• 19:02
  Okie, Dokie, let me and thank you for all of you who are who
• 19:07
  are tuning. In.
• 19:08
  From all over the place, Canada, Louisiana guys Rad OK let me go
• 19:14
  to clip #2. Bring it up on the.
• 19:18
  Screen so you guys can see it. This one is about a minute 45,
• 19:22
  so not long. Here we go and I haven't.
• 19:26
  Posted one thing or said one thing that the three of us
• 19:32
  haven't decided together, I would imagine.
• 19:35
  That includes this interview here.
• 19:37
  It is surreal. It's.
• 19:40
  How is it? Possible that we are having to
• 19:44
  make a video speaking to a kidnapper who took an 84 year
• 19:53
  old woman in the dead of night, in her pajamas, with no shoes,
• 20:04
  without her medicine, this little person and to beg for
• 20:11
  mercy. In the days that.
• 20:14
  Followed multiple notes demanding rough, right?
• 20:18
  Oh my goodness, so rough. What did we learn there?
• 20:21
  She None of her shoes must have been missing.
• 20:24
  None of her clothes must have been missing.
• 20:26
  It's probably apparent to her that she was taking in her PJS
• 20:32
  and then having to swallow your pride to beg your mother's
• 20:37
  kidnappers for her return. So tough payment were sent to
• 20:43
  various media outlets, the ransom note notes or ransom
• 20:48
  requests came. Did you believe those to be
• 20:51
  real? There are a lot of.
• 20:52
  Different notes I think that came and I think most of them,
• 20:57
  it's my understanding, are not real, OK.
• 21:01
  I found this interesting because I think we knew about 3, maybe 4
• 21:06
  notes that came in. From what she just said, it
• 21:09
  sounds like way more than that. And she goes.
• 21:14
  On to talk about the two shootings.
• 21:15
  Surreal. I didn't.
• 21:16
  See them. But, you know, a person that
• 21:23
  would send a fake ransom note really has to look deeply at
• 21:28
  themselves. Yeah.
• 21:31
  To a family in pain, that is that.
• 21:33
  Is extending so much grace. She is being so graceful in
• 21:37
  that. I would be I.
• 21:41
  But. I believe the two notes that we
• 21:48
  received that we responded to. I tend to believe.
• 21:53
  Those are real. Really.
• 21:57
  I I'm. Not I think the ones that they
• 22:00
  responded to. The first one was like the TMZ
• 22:03
  one that where the same note was was sent to local media as well
• 22:08
  and then there was a second one that went to local media I.
• 22:13
  Don't know how many. Others.
• 22:14
  I know that TMZ, there were a couple more communications, TMZ,
• 22:21
  but I don't know how many came in.
• 22:24
  It. Sounds to me like.
• 22:27
  I I don't know well. I was just making up numbers in
• 22:29
  my head. I was like, are we talking
• 22:30
  67810? I don't know.
• 22:34
  But she believes that the two that they responded to a real
• 22:38
  and it makes sense they would respond to those, right.
• 22:42
  But talk about, I mean, she is extending so much grace to the
• 22:45
  dill holes. In case you guys are wondering,
• 22:49
  that's what this coffee mug is. This is my dill hole coffee mug.
• 22:53
  I just drink water out of it because I get parched as we are
• 22:56
  speaking to one another. But.
• 23:02
  The she's extending a lot of grace, saying, you know, you
• 23:06
  really don't need to take a look at yourselves.
• 23:08
  I would want to shake those people.
• 23:11
  Clip. #3. Here we go.
• 23:14
  Javi, when the ring camera video surfaced and you could see who
• 23:23
  that person. OK, I want to preface this.
• 23:26
  I want to preface this one just a little bit.
• 23:33
  When before this video came out there, I think it was Banfield.
• 23:38
  I think it was Ashley Banfield reported that she had a source
• 23:44
  saying that the police were looking at Savannah Guthrie's
• 23:49
  brother-in-law Tommaso. I here on this channel reported
• 23:54
  that Ashley had reported that. I I.
• 23:58
  Didn't have first hand knowledge, but I was
• 24:00
  irresponsible in doing that. I should not have done that and
• 24:04
  I I just want to take the opportunity to apologize for
• 24:08
  piling on. It was not my intention.
• 24:10
  My intention is always compassion and temperance.
• 24:17
  But. Yeah, let's, let's go ahead.
• 24:20
  I'm going to, I'm going to restart this one and let's,
• 24:22
  let's have a look. See when the Ring camera video
• 24:27
  surfaced and you could see who that person was.
• 24:35
  Just tell me. What you thought when you saw,
• 24:37
  when you saw those images of the person who who took your mother?
• 24:45
  I mean, it's just. Absolutely terrifying, yeah.
• 24:48
  It's just. Totally terrifying.
• 24:55
  And I can't. Imagine that that is who she saw
• 25:01
  us standing over her bed. Yeah, I can't.
• 25:07
  That's too much. Yeah, and I'm glad and grateful
• 25:15
  to the investigators and the technology companies that were
• 25:19
  able to find that video. Do I hope at least with people
• 25:28
  of good heart and compassion, stop the irresponsible and cruel
• 25:37
  speculation that had started to swirl?
• 25:43
  Let's talk about that for a. Minute I'm glad that people saw
• 25:46
  yeah. What came to our door?
• 25:54
  Yeah. When you talk.
• 25:57
  About the cruel speculation, The Whisperers, the innuendo that it
• 26:02
  was somebody in your family. How did you weather that it's?
• 26:08
  Unbearable, and it piles pain upon pain.
• 26:21
  There are no. Words, yeah.
• 26:24
  I'll finish this out. It's got another 30 seconds.
• 26:26
  But we don't want to be the kind of people that add to the pain
• 26:28
  of victims families. We want to offer relief, right?
• 26:32
  We want to offer an Oasis in the middle of the desert of their
• 26:38
  terror, right? So yeah, let's let's take that
• 26:43
  as a lesson moving forward. If, if any of us, in my case, I
• 26:48
  was I, I should have known better.
• 26:51
  I did know better and still went forward with that report.
• 26:56
  Should not. Have done that.
• 26:59
  There are no words I don't understand, I'll never
• 27:03
  understand, and no one took better care of my mom than my
• 27:14
  sister and brother-in-law. And no one protected my mom more
• 27:19
  than my brother. And we love her.
• 27:25
  And she's our shining light. She's our matriarch.
• 27:28
  She's all we have. Yeah.
• 27:31
  I I. Just I wanted to include that in
• 27:33
  there so that we all are reminded of that our actions
• 27:37
  have consequences. And when we find that our
• 27:42
  actions have had negative consequences, it is on us to
• 27:47
  seek, well, to be penitent about that.
• 27:54
  We want to be better people. All right, the last clip that I
• 27:57
  have for you is about two minutes long.
• 28:02
  This came at the end of the interview and and what was Part
• 28:05
  3. But here we go.
• 28:08
  You're focusing on people in Tucson.
• 28:11
  Somebody. There must have seen or known
• 28:14
  something and maybe forgot about it or didn't pay attention to
• 28:16
  it. How can someone?
• 28:18
  Vanish without a trace. How someone knows something,
• 28:26
  even if that's something is someone's been, by the way.
• 28:30
  While this is playing I I really want to hear your thoughts on
• 28:33
  the interview that Savannah Guthrie did.
• 28:36
  So put GF in the comment and we'll get to your comments after
• 28:40
  this one. Acting strange for the last. 7-8
• 28:45
  weeks. Even if it's just that somebody
• 28:47
  knows and maybe somebody's afraid, This part's important.
• 28:56
  I understand. That, but our hearts are in
• 29:04
  agony. We can't.
• 29:08
  Breathe. We can't live, we can't go on.
• 29:13
  We can't be at peace, we can't go forward.
• 29:20
  We have to know what happened to her.
• 29:23
  You talked about coming. Back to New York, one of the
• 29:26
  other enduring images for me was walking into Studio 1A and
• 29:32
  seeing you there speaking to everybody.
• 29:36
  What was it like for you walking back in there?
• 29:42
  I really wanted to come and see everybody.
• 29:48
  I just love this beautiful place that we call home where we get
• 29:55
  to come and be every day. And I know how much people have
• 30:07
  prayed for me and loved me. All the people that you see on
• 30:14
  TV, you know, and then all the people that you don't.
• 30:20
  All the notes. And messages that I have
• 30:23
  received are. Just.
• 30:28
  So beautiful. I just wanted to be with my
• 30:29
  family. They're my family, too.
• 30:34
  I thought that was a beautiful sentiment because she like what?
• 30:38
  What are the chances that we find out what happens to Nancy
• 30:42
  Guthrie? I hope they're they're higher
• 30:44
  than what I think they are. This this is a.
• 30:47
  Family that I think is most likely going to go on without
• 30:52
  having answers to these questions.
• 30:56
  I think, I hope I'm wrong by the way, but but they have to
• 31:03
  straddle that line, right? They have to, they have to walk
• 31:06
  the line of continuing to mourn and work and pray and hope and
• 31:15
  counsel together and also live their lives.
• 31:20
  And that's, oh, that is certainly tough And and none of
• 31:24
  us want to be in that position, right.
• 31:27
  Let me, I'm going to, I'm going to refresh here.
• 31:34
  Let's see. Emmy says it's great.
• 31:36
  Interview it. I thought so too.
• 31:39
  Emmy it was Babe is babe. Bran takes a real man to admit
• 31:45
  he's wrong and apologize. I I do my best.
• 31:48
  I and I, I did not do very well before.
• 31:54
  So yeah, I'm happy. To apologize for that.
• 31:58
  Miss Chivos Dragon, it's nice to have it clarified somewhat.
• 32:01
  That original door was left open was actually doors were propped
• 32:04
  open. We didn't know if open meant
• 32:06
  wide open or just unlocked. Yes, indeed.
• 32:10
  Yeah. And Jenny, thank you for that.
• 32:15
  Let's see. Thank you for apologizing.
• 32:17
  Try to give yourself some grace. You would think someone with as
• 32:19
  many followers would have vetted the information she was
• 32:22
  reporting. Yeah.
• 32:23
  And I should have. I should have not done that.
• 32:28
  Captured. Andy says the interview muddied
• 32:31
  the timeline even more. Let's see, Elizabeth.
• 32:35
  Says not a good interview on Hoda's part.
• 32:37
  No follow up questions. Missed opportunity in my
• 32:40
  opinion. But then again, none of this is
• 32:42
  really our business. Yeah, I, I from a journalistic
• 32:45
  standpoint it does. It did feel a little bit more
• 32:48
  like Hoda was a friend talking to a friend, not wanting to push
• 32:51
  it any further than where that friend wanted to take it.
• 32:57
  I don't. Know it's I don't disagree with
• 33:02
  you, Elizabeth. I just I think I understand why
• 33:05
  she did that intrepid Freddy cat.
• 33:08
  Oh, a Freddy cat that is also intrepid with maybe we've got a
• 33:14
  we've got a Kitty Vermeer there. That's pretty.
• 33:16
  That's a great avatar. Gavin.
• 33:20
  I'm a caregiver to my 83 year old mother.
• 33:22
  She has very limited mobility, lots of muscle mass and thinning
• 33:26
  skin is an issue. Any movement has to be slow and
• 33:30
  gentle. The pain can cause shock to set
• 33:32
  in. What a terrific insight, right?
• 33:36
  That the thinning skin when my when my maternal grandmother was
• 33:40
  getting to the end of her life, anything touching her skin was
• 33:44
  just pain. So the idea of somebody grabbing
• 33:47
  her right would be painful, not just because she had a bad back,
• 33:52
  but because she's age aged. Sorry.
• 33:56
  So tough. So tough.
• 34:00
  Yes, Dateline on NBC tonight. It's going to be a little bit
• 34:03
  more. Thanks, Emmy, for that.
• 34:06
  Paulie, thanks for tuning in from Scotland.
• 34:13
  And there goes. My 82 year old mom driving her
• 34:16
  tractor around her. I think that meant acreage.
• 34:18
  That's funny. Yeah, there's a broad spectrum
• 34:22
  of how we end up. To to.
• 34:26
  All this could Savannah's coverage of Epstein being
• 34:30
  related to this. I hope not.
• 34:32
  I don't know. I don't know about that.
• 34:37
  Elizabeth. Says I don't see how that was
• 34:39
  piling on. Banfield sticks to her story
• 34:41
  that her source told her that info.
• 34:43
  Right or wrong, we don't know at this point.
• 34:45
  Yeah. Yep.
• 34:48
  And Joanne adds this is so heartbreaking.
• 34:51
  It is. It is Scotch's mom.
• 34:54
  I few Icelandic airlines with my parents in 1977 from Chicago to
• 34:59
  Luxembourg. I was 2 in 1977.
• 35:04
  So I have not I don't have quite as long a history with Icelandic
• 35:10
  air, but I have been flying it since the early 2000s.
• 35:15
  That's that's my let's see, Jewel says.
• 35:18
  Looking good, Gavin, but have to say blue is your best color.
• 35:21
  I like blue. Yeah, it makes my eyes pop.
• 35:24
  You're right. You are right, Chaley says how
• 35:30
  do I send you a link? If you go to my website,
• 35:32
  whichisgavinfish.com and let me bring it up right here and you
• 35:37
  click on oh, I need to bring it and drag it in for you guys to
• 35:41
  be able to see it. I didn't do that before we
• 35:43
  started. There we go.
• 35:44
  See this little envelope icon? If you click on that, that will.
• 35:48
  Get you to a form where. You can send me info very very
• 35:52
  easy. I do it this way because emails
• 35:54
  get lost and this gets logged. So do it that way and thank you,
• 35:59
  Okie Dokie. Now that this brings us, now
• 36:04
  that we've gone through your comments just a little bit, this
• 36:05
  brings us to a comment that came in on the fish tank a little bit
• 36:11
  earlier today. I think I might be able to find
• 36:13
  it pretty easily. Yeah, here it is from.
• 36:18
  Nan Shirley, when I posted what we were going to talk about
• 36:23
  tonight, if you're not on the fish tank and you're on
• 36:26
  Facebook, I invite you to come check us out.
• 36:28
  It looks like this. Just scroll up to the top.
• 36:31
  Gavin, come on. There we go.
• 36:33
  Looks like that. And the easiest way to find the
• 36:36
  fish tank is on my website, gavinfish.com.
• 36:39
  Click on the little fishy. There's also always a there's a
• 36:42
  link down in the description below.
• 36:45
  OK, coming down to this little post that I did today, Nan,
• 36:51
  surely a rising contributor in the fish tank, says I've thought
• 36:54
  from the beginning it might be a parasocial person fixated on
• 36:58
  Savannah. And I said to myself.
• 37:04
  I. Didn't I had never read the word
• 37:07
  parasocial? I wondered what that is and so I
• 37:12
  looked it up and got some information that I want to share
• 37:18
  with you guys because and we were talking about this a few
• 37:23
  days ago. If you guys will remember.
• 37:25
  Hey Wanda, I know this isn't me like talking about my past, but
• 37:29
  we're we're going to we're going to do a flashback to a few days
• 37:32
  ago. Can can we get flashback music?
• 37:35
  All right, so if you guys will remember, Yeah, good flashback
• 37:39
  music, Wanda that. But do you have something maybe
• 37:42
  on the Fender roads? Maybe we could do something like
• 37:44
  that? Oh, yeah, that's better.
• 37:46
  OK, flashing back to a few days ago.
• 37:50
  We. Talked about Mr. Rogers, right?
• 37:53
  How Mr. Rogers was somebody who I absolutely loved growing up
• 37:58
  and felt as a child that that he was my friend, right?
• 38:03
  And I would check in, I would go to his neighborhood every
• 38:05
  weekday and I would hang out with Mr. Rogers.
• 38:08
  It would he was my friend and his program was designed for
• 38:12
  children to feel that way. And indeed, programs like mine
• 38:16
  that you're watching right now, they're designed.
• 38:20
  It's not like we're master designers of this or master
• 38:23
  manipulators or anything like that.
• 38:25
  But I. Want you to feel.
• 38:26
  Like, like you're tuning into a friend, right?
• 38:31
  And that's, that's the way many programs are on YouTube, on TV.
• 38:37
  In fact, when you watch sitcoms, you, you, it's designed for you
• 38:42
  to feel like, Hey, you're in somebody's home, right?
• 38:45
  So, so you can build a healthy relationship, digital
• 38:53
  relationship, right? There comes a point though,
• 38:57
  where it becomes unhealthy, and these are known as parasocial
• 39:03
  relationships. Are they?
• 39:06
  I guess they're all parasocial relationships, but they can get
• 39:12
  unhealthy. And I found this on Resilience
• 39:15
  Lab. Let's just get into this just a
• 39:17
  little bit, OK? Parasocial relationships are
• 39:22
  connections where you may feel close to a figure in the media
• 39:25
  despite no reciprocal awareness. With the rise of social media,
• 39:30
  understanding these one sided interactions is critical.
• 39:33
  They affect our mental health and shape our social landscape.
• 39:36
  This article covers blah blah blah, OK.
• 39:40
  Let me. Just let me.
• 39:41
  Just tell you as I am, I'm not a celebrity right?
• 39:45
  I am a YouTube with a small platform and a small following
• 39:49
  still. I have gotten the.
• 39:53
  Occasional knock at the door. Which is.
• 39:57
  Scary for me and my family. We do not want that because we
• 40:03
  don't. Because to me you are strangers.
• 40:07
  Many of you, most of you are, some of you not.
• 40:10
  But to you, I may feel like somebody you know, but to me,
• 40:15
  I'm only looking at a camera. And so a knock on the door can
• 40:20
  be really scary. And as we have gone through this
• 40:25
  little journey on YouTube, we've we've discussed, do we need a
• 40:29
  place where the property is bigger, where it can be
• 40:33
  tightened down, those kinds of things.
• 40:35
  Ultimately, we have taken some measures to for our security,
• 40:39
  but. When?
• 40:43
  Somebody reaches a level of fame like Savannah Guthrie, then
• 40:47
  yeah, I think it can become really dangerous for a very,
• 40:50
  very small part of the population.
• 40:55
  So what are parasocial relationships?
• 40:58
  They are one sided connections with public figures or fictional
• 41:02
  characters. Fictional characters we're going
• 41:05
  to talk about we're. Going to talk about that.
• 41:07
  Too, where one person extends emotional energy, interest and
• 41:11
  time while the other party is completely unaware of the
• 41:15
  other's existence. These relationships are
• 41:17
  considered a normal and common aspect of human socialization
• 41:22
  are evolutionary predisposition. Predisposition to make social
• 41:25
  connections extends into media use and this propensity is why
• 41:30
  we form parasocial relationships.
• 41:32
  Now this I mean just today I was thinking about this.
• 41:35
  OK, Do I have parasocial relationships where I feel like
• 41:38
  I have a connection to somebody who is completely unaware of
• 41:44
  Maine right now When I was a kid?
• 41:46
  Yeah. Yeah, dude.
• 41:50
  Jennifer Connelly. When I was like 13.
• 41:54
  Years old, huge crush, right? I just dreamt of meeting her and
• 41:59
  thought it'd be so cool if we were friends and all that stuff.
• 42:02
  That was a parasocial relationship.
• 42:04
  Just today, one of the podcasts that I listen to a lot is Conan
• 42:09
  O'Brien Needs a Friend. And sometimes I watch it on
• 42:11
  YouTube. And I was watching one that was
• 42:15
  pretty recent. And then it got me down the
• 42:17
  rabbit hole and I watched a couple that were older where
• 42:20
  Conan O'Brien is interviewing his guest, Lisa Kudrow, and they
• 42:25
  are old friends, right? And in in that conversation.
• 42:31
  I started to feel. Like having already read this
• 42:35
  article that we're going over now starting to feel like, Oh my
• 42:38
  goodness, I'm part of this little, little friendship group,
• 42:41
  right? And I'm not, I'm just feeling
• 42:44
  that I am because I relate to some of the things that they're
• 42:47
  talking about, right? They're, they're a little bit
• 42:50
  older than me, but about the same age.
• 42:52
  And we've had a common experiences and so forth.
• 42:55
  So yeah, this is. And it's a.
• 42:58
  Natural thing that we do. The concept of parasocial
• 43:01
  relationships has expanded from those with television personas
• 43:04
  to digital relationships with bloggers, social media users,
• 43:08
  gamers. The rise of digital media has
• 43:10
  facilitated the formation and strengthening of these
• 43:13
  relationships, which can range from light hearted to intensely
• 43:16
  personal and even. And this is where it becomes
• 43:19
  dangerous, borderline, pathological or even just
• 43:23
  pathological right. Navigating these relationships
• 43:26
  requires understanding their origins, types, formation and
• 43:30
  ending factors, as well as their potential impact on mental
• 43:34
  health. They offer a unique lens to
• 43:36
  understand one's mental well-being and with
• 43:39
  self-awareness, they can be managed in a healthy manner.
• 43:44
  It talks about the the origins. Let me just skip down to this
• 43:48
  part. Right as the concept of
• 43:50
  parasocial interaction evolves, so did the platforms for these
• 43:54
  relationships. The rise of the social media
• 43:56
  platform has played a significant role in the
• 43:59
  formation and strengthening of parasocial bonds.
• 44:02
  The current digital age provides more intimate and frequent
• 44:05
  interaction opportunities, blurring the lines of parasocial
• 44:09
  relationships and making fans feel a sense of intimacy with
• 44:12
  celebrities and influencers. And going back to Savannah
• 44:15
  Guthrie, you know, like for example, you and I on this very
• 44:20
  program, we interact with one another like 5 * a week usually,
• 44:25
  right, every weekday. Now when we're talking about a
• 44:28
  show like the Today show, that is a daily weekday thing.
• 44:33
  So I think that that that cadence right the the frequency
• 44:40
  at which that happens probably can lead those that are, you
• 44:46
  know, are already borderline pathological into an unhealthy
• 44:51
  place. As we delve deeper.
• 44:54
  Into these types of parasocial relationships, it becomes clear
• 44:57
  that the impact of these one sided bonds can vary
• 45:01
  significantly. And then there it gives
• 45:03
  different types of parasocial relationships.
• 45:08
  Let's see, Let me go over this one.
• 45:12
  Intense Personal Intense personal parasocial
• 45:15
  relationships signify A profound emotional attachment to media
• 45:18
  figures, which can sometimes reach the level of celebrity
• 45:22
  worship. Unlike the lighter, more
• 45:24
  communal attachments found in entertainment social
• 45:27
  relationships, these interactions involve a deep
• 45:30
  seated conviction that one has a personal connection with a
• 45:33
  celebrity. Such relationships are
• 45:36
  characterized not just by frequent checks on the celebrity
• 45:38
  social media, but also by more intense behavior, such as
• 45:42
  feeling distressed upon encountering negative articles
• 45:45
  about the celebrity or getting into arguments with others who
• 45:48
  do not feel as positively about that celebrity.
• 45:52
  OK, I want to. I want to skip down to this
• 45:56
  borderline pathological side, but.
• 46:00
  I am. I have no bona fides.
• 46:02
  I have no what am I trying to say?
• 46:05
  I have no training in this or anything.
• 46:08
  But I would just just take it as advice from the a formerly fat
• 46:13
  guy sitting in Western Pennsylvania that if you are
• 46:15
  feeling. These kinds.
• 46:19
  Of of feelings and having these kinds of thoughts.
• 46:21
  You're getting upset if somebody doesn't have the same feelings
• 46:25
  toward a certain celebrity or media personality that you do, I
• 46:30
  think. That you need.
• 46:31
  To seek some help and there's no shame in it, right?
• 46:33
  This is this is a natural human feeling, but seek some
• 46:38
  professional help for this it, it will help you, it will help
• 46:41
  them, it will help everybody and, and it's good for you.
• 46:44
  And we're all about what's good for us.
• 46:46
  So do that, OK? The least common form of
• 46:50
  parasocial relationships is the borderline pathological type,
• 46:54
  which is considered the most dangerous.
• 46:57
  These relationships can have severe negative impacts on
• 47:00
  individuals involved. These relationships extend
• 47:03
  beyond mere fascination as individuals become so absorbed
• 47:07
  by their attachment to a celebrity that this hyper focus
• 47:11
  begins to dictate their thoughts, actions, and feelings.
• 47:14
  This may lead to unhealthy obsessions and fantasies such as
• 47:19
  delusions about celebrity seeking a personal relationship
• 47:23
  about the celebrity seeking a personal relationship with them.
• 47:27
  At the extreme end, behaviors such as stalking a celebrity can
• 47:32
  emerge from borderline pathological parasocial
• 47:34
  relationships. I don't even think it.
• 47:38
  I mean, they're talking about celebrity on this.
• 47:40
  But it doesn't have to just be a celebrity, right?
• 47:43
  To get into one of these parasocial relationships.
• 47:45
  It's probably the most common way, leading to a dangerous
• 47:49
  disconnection from reality. This type of parasocial
• 47:52
  interaction underscores the potential dangers and negative
• 47:56
  impacts on mental health, underscoring the need for
• 48:00
  understanding and managing these relationships.
• 48:05
  And it talks about how to. How to you?
• 48:10
  Know how sometimes they form and an end, but guys we got to be on
• 48:15
  the lookout for this. If, if it's true that somebody
• 48:21
  formed a a pathological parasocial relationship with
• 48:28
  Savannah Guthrie and is trying to get her attention and just
• 48:32
  wants to just wants to be in her life and wants her to
• 48:36
  reciprocate what they are feeling, that could lead to this
• 48:42
  kind of behavior of, of kidnapping her mother, Nancy
• 48:48
  Guthrie. For sure.
• 48:51
  Now what? Of course, I'm not saying that
• 48:54
  this is what happened. I'm just saying this might
• 48:56
  happen and, and why are we talking about this?
• 49:00
  Do you know somebody in your life who is fixated, especially
• 49:06
  if you're in and around Tucson, but not exclusively?
• 49:11
  Do you know somebody who you say to yourself, Hmm?
• 49:15
  They really love. Savannah Guthrie.
• 49:19
  Could be a man Could. Be a woman there.
• 49:23
  There are all sorts of pathologies where a domestic
• 49:27
  partner would go along with somebody's fantasy about a
• 49:31
  celebrity. I mean, we've seen this.
• 49:33
  So do you know? Somebody in your life who you're
• 49:36
  like, oh, this is. Maybe you thought it?
• 49:39
  Was healthy actually, maybe you're just like, oh, they just
• 49:41
  a big super fan of Savannah Guthrie or the Today show or
• 49:44
  something like that. This could this could be a lead
• 49:48
  to to find who is responsible for kidnapping Nancy Guthrie and
• 49:54
  we all know the phone number to call 1800, call FBI with tips.
• 49:57
  OK, now do these kinds of relationships happen Yes, yes
• 50:03
  they do. There are a couple that come to
• 50:04
  mind. OK #1 John Hinckley, right?
• 50:09
  He shot and nearly assassinated Ronald Reagan.
• 50:15
  He. He.
• 50:21
  How do I say this? He injured and paralyzed one of
• 50:26
  Reagan's security guards for life.
• 50:30
  Why? Because he became fixated on
• 50:33
  Jodie Foster in her role in Taxi Driver.
• 50:37
  It makes no sense. A third party is the victim
• 50:40
  because he was like, oh I'm going to show Jodie Foster how
• 50:44
  much I love her another one and we talked about fictional
• 50:49
  characters. Do you remember Mark David
• 50:52
  Chapman, the assassin of John Lennon in 1980 right.
• 50:59
  Deep parasocial fixation on John Lennon.
• 51:03
  He had a personal grievance his his reading of Catcher in the
• 51:13
  Rye and that and identifying with Holden Caulfield, a
• 51:17
  fictional character and Catcher in the Rye.
• 51:22
  You know. Led him.
• 51:24
  To stalking, following John Lennon and killing him in the
• 51:30
  90s. Do you guys remember Selena?
• 51:33
  Or we usually say Selena, right? Yolanda Salivar, she, she was a
• 51:41
  super fan of Selena. She was a she was the president
• 51:46
  of her fan club for crying out loud, and she developed this
• 51:50
  controlling, possessive 1 sided relationship with Selena.
• 51:55
  Another one that I I looked up and found was Rebecca Schaefer
• 51:59
  who was murdered by John. I'm sorry, Robert John Bardo in
• 52:04
  1989, she was a model and he became obsessed with her and her
• 52:08
  TV role. He hired a private investigator
• 52:11
  to follow her, find her and he full on killed her at her front
• 52:15
  door. That actually led to a
• 52:19
  California law, an anti stalking law.
• 52:21
  In 1996, Ricardo Lopez became fixated and had this parasocial
• 52:28
  relationship with the recording artist Bjork and became enraged
• 52:36
  over her relationship with a real person in her life right he
• 52:44
  attempted to harm. Her by.
• 52:48
  Mailing a bomb and then took his own life.
• 52:51
  So I mean, it's in the minority of people.
• 52:55
  It's not in most of us. A parasocial relationship in and
• 52:58
  of itself is not bad until it goes too far.
• 53:02
  Now again, we are here to learn. We are here to help.
• 53:07
  Do you know? Anybody where you now say to
• 53:10
  yourself, they're, they're fixated on Savannah Guthrie or
• 53:17
  they're fixated on the Today show or they're, you know, they,
• 53:21
  because it could be beyond something other than just
• 53:24
  wanting a ransom. That's all I'm saying.
• 53:27
  I'm not saying it is this. I'm saying, could this help
• 53:31
  people to start thinking, wait a minute, maybe there is somebody,
• 53:37
  maybe there is a little detail that I heard or I talked to
• 53:40
  somebody that might give us more or it might give us a clue.
• 53:45
  OK, let's let's go over to your comments on this.
• 53:48
  I'd love to hear what you guys are thinking.
• 53:50
  Let me refresh. Let's see.
• 53:58
  See, Magic 22 says I believe Angie was at the least
• 54:02
  unconscious when taken from her house.
• 54:05
  Mooney brought up like the guy who killed John Lennon.
• 54:07
  Exactly. Yeah.
• 54:11
  A certain YouTube. Creator that's been in the news
• 54:13
  is now casting suspicion on Savannah's brother Cameron.
• 54:17
  Unbelievable. We should not be doing that,
• 54:19
  guys. And yeah, Lee brings it up.
• 54:23
  The definition of parasocial, that definition of parasocial is
• 54:26
  too limited. It doesn't just apply to
• 54:29
  celebrity, right? It it could, it could apply to
• 54:32
  just somebody that you're crushing on and and don't have
• 54:35
  the confidence to talk. It could apply to so many
• 54:38
  people. The key is that it's one sided.
• 54:40
  Very, very, very good. Robin.
• 54:44
  Says some of us are just plum strange.
• 54:48
  Pooh's blustery. Day says.
• 54:51
  Will we ever find out what happened to Nancy?
• 54:53
  Man, I hope so. But I think that the odds are
• 54:56
  that we won't. Scotch's mom.
• 55:03
  Says as Emily D Baker says, don't go real world and show up
• 55:06
  at someone's house. Yeah, I remember I was watching
• 55:09
  this creator who I I really enjoy his stuff.
• 55:12
  He's a blacksmith. Most of the creators I watch on
• 55:15
  social media are in the makerspace, right?
• 55:17
  They're blacksmiths or woodworkers or, you know, some,
• 55:22
  some other kind of Potters. I, I like people that build
• 55:26
  stuff. I think it's cool auto
• 55:28
  mechanics. But yeah, there was this, there
• 55:31
  was this creator who, who I, I still enjoy to this day.
• 55:35
  I watch him all the time who was renovating his house.
• 55:39
  And I was like, dude on his behalf.
• 55:43
  In my mind, I was just like, don't show him where you live,
• 55:46
  man. Don't show him your front door.
• 55:49
  Right. Like because most people are
• 55:52
  healthy, some people are not. Ohio Palm mom.
• 55:56
  Great comment. The Slender Man case is a good
• 55:59
  example of a fictional character fixation.
• 56:04
  I was going to see if I have. I was going to bring.
• 56:09
  That one up, but I I think I think I got rid of the button
• 56:13
  hobby. I got rid of that button.
• 56:14
  Sorry, man, Let's see. I'm just going to keep on.
• 56:21
  I think we might. I think I just saw.
• 56:26
  Zoe Saldana's name, I can't remember, but I think I did as
• 56:31
  it as it went through. Yeah.
• 56:34
  Slender Man Case. Yeah.
• 56:37
  He also injured Reagan's press secretary, Jim Brady.
• 56:39
  Yeah. And.
• 56:40
  And that changed. I mean, that changed so much.
• 56:43
  Brady Laws is named after Jim Brady.
• 56:45
  In fact, that's who I was thinking of.
• 56:47
  He, he was his press secretary, not one of his Secret Service
• 56:51
  detail. Thank you for that, Robert, the
• 56:57
  ruse says. I I followed.
• 57:01
  Former Scientology channels and after a couple of blow UPS
• 57:03
  between some of the host viewers went absolutely crazy supporting
• 57:07
  1 and demonizing the other and their supporters.
• 57:09
  Yeah, don't, don't get caught up in that.
• 57:12
  Don't get in fact any cult of personality is a bad idea and I
• 57:17
  don't want to get I. Don't want to get political?
• 57:20
  So I'm not going to but any. Any any of that?
• 57:27
  Is is bad Cha Cha says. Have you seen Ashley Banfield
• 57:32
  video with Gray? Forgot his last name.
• 57:34
  Anyways, dig today a map of the house and anyways because I
• 57:40
  always been curious about the back doors not following you cha
• 57:43
  cha. But no I have not seen that.
• 57:45
  Lisa says this was a crime of opportunity.
• 57:48
  They had to know of the unlocked back door.
• 57:50
  Did Nancy share this with fire, EMS, contractors, electricians?
• 57:55
  I don't know that it was unlocked.
• 57:56
  Was it unlocked? I don't know, Debbie says.
• 58:03
  Misses. Guthrie is active on her
• 58:05
  community chat. Jules and say.
• 58:09
  Jules and me are saying Gavin, Javi, Wanda.
• 58:11
  Yes, Javi is he is my chief toggle toggler, Nob Turner and
• 58:19
  button pusher and Wanda is she does all of the music for the
• 58:23
  show with the exception of the theme song, which is my
• 58:27
  composition. But Wanda, she just every once
• 58:30
  in a while, if I need some music like Wanda, give me, give me
• 58:35
  like a pluck. Wanda, Wanda, she had fallen
• 58:38
  asleep. Hang on a second.
• 58:39
  Give me some sort of plucky kind of theme music, something like
• 58:43
  that. Let's hear it.
• 58:47
  See, she's so good and she'll just keep going.
• 58:50
  She's got like 6 arms. She can play multiple
• 58:52
  instruments at the same time. She'll get into percussion
• 58:55
  sometimes. She has like one of those Dick
• 58:57
  Van Dyke things for Mary Poppins.
• 59:01
  She's great. So, yeah, Wanda's our musician,
• 59:04
  our resident musician, Javi is like he's our button pusher.
• 59:07
  He's our director of, of buttons, toggles, switches and
• 59:13
  knobs. I think Lucy Fair Gavin, not
• 59:16
  sure if this fits the definition, but I have a
• 59:18
  neighbor I've cut off contact with because she had the idea
• 59:22
  that we were closer than we were unwanted, unexpected knocks at
• 59:26
  the door, gifts, etcetera. Yeah, I, yeah, I think that
• 59:29
  might, that might qualify too. Anyway guys.
• 59:36
  I I just. Yeah, what?
• 59:38
  What do we take away from from this conversation about Nancy
• 59:41
  Guthrie? One, we don't want to be.
• 59:46
  Well, let's back up. We want to temper our
• 59:49
  speculation with compassion, with humanity, as the Reiner
• 59:53
  family asked us so beautifully in the wake of their murders.
• 59:59
  We don't. Want to pile on to the to the
• 1:00:03
  Guthrie family or any family of any victim and we want to try to
• 1:00:10
  help solve this and we might be able to do so by just like
• 1:00:14
  jogging our memory. Do we know of somebody who might
• 1:00:17
  fit the bill of having a one sided pseudo relationship?
• 1:00:22
  This parasocial relationship with Savannah Guthrie or the
• 1:00:25
  Today show it's. I'm not saying that.
• 1:00:29
  This is what happened. I'm just saying it's a
• 1:00:31
  possibility and with deep appreciation to Nan Shirley, who
• 1:00:36
  brought that up in the tank. OK, Now I told you that we have
• 1:00:41
  a couple of other headlines to get to that are important for
• 1:00:44
  today, including an update on the Kirby Carpenter case, an
• 1:00:48
  update on Harvey Weinstein, an update on Emmanuel Harrow.
• 1:00:52
  But before we do that, let's get into three questions.
• 1:01:02
  OK, in. This segment, guys, I answer
• 1:01:05
  three of your questions that you send to me at the e-mail address
• 1:01:08
  shown on your screen, which is 3 questions at gavinfish.com.
• 1:01:11
  It is spelled out THREE questions, three questions at
• 1:01:16
  gavinfish.com. Maybe the most common question I
• 1:01:18
  get is does this e-mail work like you're fishing for a
• 1:01:22
  response? Yeah, the e-mail.
• 1:01:24
  Works. It's just three questions at
• 1:01:26
  gavinfish.com. You'll know it's not working if
• 1:01:29
  it bounces. You can ask any.
• 1:01:33
  Question you want. Nothing is off the table.
• 1:01:35
  Everything indeed is on the table.
• 1:01:37
  And I will answer 3 questions at a time.
• 1:01:41
  And they can be as deep as the mysteries of the universe or
• 1:01:49
  they can just be funny little questions.
• 1:01:51
  And tonight I think we've got mostly funny little questions.
• 1:01:55
  Bonus points for questions that others can answer in the
• 1:01:58
  comments. I love hearing your, your
• 1:02:00
  comments, comments on this. So question number one comes
• 1:02:03
  from Jennifer. In fact, I think Jennifer made
• 1:02:05
  two questions this time. Jennifer.
• 1:02:08
  Jennifer asks what's the story behind the Lionfish video clip?
• 1:02:12
  That is this clip right here. Yeah, so.
• 1:02:18
  Jennifer, listen, this is what has been happening to me lately.
• 1:02:25
  I get it in my. Mind that I need to yawn.
• 1:02:27
  I'm not tired. I I think it's because I'm
• 1:02:31
  talking so quickly, talking too much, that I'm not breathing
• 1:02:35
  properly. And so while.
• 1:02:39
  I'm live streaming. I get into these yawn fits and
• 1:02:43
  it bothers me and I don't want to be yawning in your face.
• 1:02:46
  And So what I do is I just, I cover it up.
• 1:02:49
  With the. Yawning.
• 1:02:52
  Roaring. Lionfish.
• 1:02:55
  And that's what I've just decided to do.
• 1:02:57
  That's. That's what it is.
• 1:03:00
  Thanks for the question. And thank you for being a new
• 1:03:02
  viewer. Appreciate that.
• 1:03:04
  Or I'm assuming you are. John asks what was your?
• 1:03:09
  Favorite primetime television program growing up?
• 1:03:12
  OK, I want to hear your answers to this one.
• 1:03:17
  OK, depends. On.
• 1:03:19
  The era of me growing up when I was younger, I.
• 1:03:24
  Would say before. Maybe my freshman year in high
• 1:03:28
  school. I loved.
• 1:03:30
  A night court. I don't think I got.
• 1:03:34
  It, I just loved it. Maybe the laugh track did it for
• 1:03:37
  me. Plus marquee post.
• 1:03:39
  That's fun to look at. Marquee post, 1980s marquee
• 1:03:42
  post. Come on.
• 1:03:45
  And it was a fun show. I loved MASH.
• 1:03:48
  I loved, loved loved MASH. I loved Cheers.
• 1:03:53
  I loved Wings. I loved Newhart.
• 1:03:56
  In fact, one of the. One of the gripes?
• 1:04:00
  That I have against my parents and this isn't this is like my
• 1:04:05
  parents are terrific people and there's very little to nitpick
• 1:04:09
  over with my parents. They they were terrific, but
• 1:04:13
  they made me go to bed and miss the finale of Newhart, one of my
• 1:04:20
  favorite shows. I had to go to bed and I missed
• 1:04:23
  Newhart. I had to check it in reruns
• 1:04:25
  during the summer. Oh my goodness, it was
• 1:04:28
  heartbreaking. But then when we get a little
• 1:04:31
  bit later into my life, my prime time TV programming was Star
• 1:04:37
  Trek the Next Generation, Star Trek Deeps to Base 9, Beverly
• 1:04:41
  Hills 9-O21-O, Melrose Place 9-O21-O.
• 1:04:45
  That happened to be the same class.
• 1:04:47
  They were the class of 1993 in high school.
• 1:04:49
  So they, they went through high school at the same time that I
• 1:04:53
  did. So I felt this Speaking of para
• 1:04:56
  parasocial relationships, I felt this kinship to this to these,
• 1:05:00
  to these characters. And then later on, I really, I,
• 1:05:06
  I didn't see this in prime time, but I watched it later.
• 1:05:09
  I love Twin Peaks. Loved.
• 1:05:11
  Loved, loved Twin Peaks. So yeah.
• 1:05:16
  I guess that tells you a little bit about my, my preferences, I
• 1:05:24
  guess. And then question #3 again from
• 1:05:26
  Jennifer, same, Jennifer. But I thought this was a great,
• 1:05:29
  great question. OK.
• 1:05:32
  And and I. Want your answers Like if you
• 1:05:35
  could change your name, what would you change it to?
• 1:05:40
  Now. Jennifer, this is another gripe
• 1:05:43
  that I have to with my parents, OK, my parents.
• 1:05:48
  Just and I. Love them, Heaven loves them,
• 1:05:50
  the world loves them. They're the best.
• 1:05:54
  They named me one thing and called me another.
• 1:05:58
  My my given name is not well, it is given to me, but my first
• 1:06:04
  name is not Gavin. Gavin is my middle name.
• 1:06:08
  They named me. After my father, my first name
• 1:06:11
  is my dad's name, but they didn't want a junior so they
• 1:06:15
  gave me a different middle name from my dad.
• 1:06:18
  And. And then from day one, like,
• 1:06:21
  well, probably before that, I think they had me named back in
• 1:06:24
  those days that they couldn't tell if they're going to have a
• 1:06:27
  boy or a girl before said boy or girl was born, right?
• 1:06:31
  So they had names picked out. And when it turned out that I
• 1:06:34
  was a little macho young man, they named me what they named
• 1:06:39
  me, but they were always going to call me by my middle name.
• 1:06:44
  And I, that is just it. The world is not is still not
• 1:06:49
  ready for a person who goes by a name other than their first
• 1:06:53
  name. So.
• 1:06:56
  Could I change my name? I could change.
• 1:07:00
  My name. But I won't because #1.
• 1:07:06
  And this is. The most important one.
• 1:07:08
  It gives me something to complain about with my parents.
• 1:07:16
  And #2 over the years. I have just come to be very
• 1:07:21
  grateful that I am named after my dad and in my family, all of
• 1:07:26
  my siblings. In fact, my my baby sister is
• 1:07:29
  one of the admins of the fish tank.
• 1:07:31
  You'll see her over there. Her name is Tiffany.
• 1:07:34
  She goes by Tiff, but all of us have been given very meaningful
• 1:07:42
  names. And.
• 1:07:44
  In my case, I'm named after my father and I'm grateful to be
• 1:07:48
  named after him and I want to keep it exactly the way it is,
• 1:07:51
  but I want to keep complaining about it.
• 1:07:53
  That's just me. Having said all of that, I used
• 1:07:59
  to work in high end audio and there was a guy who was a
• 1:08:01
  founder of a loudspeaker company.
• 1:08:06
  Whose? First name is Alon.
• 1:08:08
  ALON, not Alon. It's pronounced Alon, and his
• 1:08:15
  last name is Wolf. The man's name.
• 1:08:19
  The man's given name. Is a.
• 1:08:22
  Lone wolf. So if I could change my name, it
• 1:08:25
  would be to something like that. Hello, my name is a lone wolf.
• 1:08:29
  Oh. That's.
• 1:08:30
  Like talk about the most powerful name crying out loud.
• 1:08:34
  That is so much better than Gavin Fish.
• 1:08:38
  Crying out loud. A lone wolf.
• 1:08:42
  Oh, what about like from Air Wolf?
• 1:08:46
  Do you remember Stringfellow Hawk?
• 1:08:48
  My name is Stringfellow Hawk. Oh, what a great name.
• 1:08:52
  Yes, I guess I would. I would change it to something
• 1:08:56
  like Stringfellow Hawk or a lone wolf or something like that.
• 1:08:58
  It would. It would be glorious.
• 1:09:01
  Now I want to hear your answers to these questions.
• 1:09:03
  Let's recap them real quick. Let's.
• 1:09:06
  See Lionfish you don't really care about but prime time TV
• 1:09:09
  programming. What did you like to watch
• 1:09:11
  growing up? And if you could change your
• 1:09:13
  name, what would you change it to?
• 1:09:15
  And while you are working out your little thumbs on your
• 1:09:18
  keyboards, let's hop into today's headlines.
• 1:09:22
  Here we go. True crime.
• 1:09:30
  Headlines, Okie. Dokie, a couple of headlines
• 1:09:33
  that I want to bring to you. This is an important one.
• 1:09:38
  Jeffrey Spence has been found guilty in the murder of Kirby
• 1:09:42
  Carpenter. This written by Tanya Carter
• 1:09:44
  from WTVA Dateline, Pittsboro, Ms. A jury found Jeffrey Spence
• 1:09:49
  guilty of first degree murder. The jury announced the verdict
• 1:09:53
  this very afternoon and a judge sentenced him to life in prison.
• 1:09:58
  Spence was on trial for the December 2022 death of his
• 1:10:01
  daughter's boyfriend, Kirby Carpenter in Tippa County,
• 1:10:04
  Mississippi. This was his second trial.
• 1:10:07
  A judge declared a mistrial in the first trial, which happened
• 1:10:10
  in 2025 in Pontotoc County. After the jury was deadlocked
• 1:10:16
  66, authorities arrested Jeffrey Spence, his wife Karen Spence,
• 1:10:19
  and his daughter Caitlin Spence. Caitlin struck a deal in April
• 1:10:23
  2025 to testify against her father.
• 1:10:25
  Her mother accepted a plea deal a week before the start of the
• 1:10:28
  first trial. Today's verdict followed a
• 1:10:31
  bizarre situation involving involving court TV and a leaked
• 1:10:35
  live stream of the proceedings. OK, but anyway, this one is one
• 1:10:43
  that we have been following. This is a family that I am in
• 1:10:46
  touch with. While this is no cause for
• 1:10:50
  celebration because they have lost their son, their brother,
• 1:10:55
  their uncle, their father. It is.
• 1:11:02
  It is as close. To justice as we can get on this
• 1:11:05
  earth. And I am I'm.
• 1:11:09
  Sending my. Love out to his family, you guys
• 1:11:13
  are the best. And they have.
• 1:11:16
  Shown so much grace during this whole thing.
• 1:11:19
  Guys, I can't even tell you headline #2 this written by
• 1:11:25
  Christian Casares for NBCLA published this very day.
• 1:11:30
  The headline reads Emmanuel Harrow case as mother appears in
• 1:11:34
  court on murder charge. It has been seven months since 7
• 1:11:38
  month old Emmanuel Harrow was first reported missing in the
• 1:11:41
  Inland Empire. The Inland Empire being San
• 1:11:43
  Bernardino County and Riverside County in Southern California,
• 1:11:48
  and his mother, Rebecca Harrow appeared in court Thursday
• 1:11:51
  yesterday after being charged with murder.
• 1:11:54
  Rebecca Harrow, 41, was seen in court with her hair covering her
• 1:11:58
  face as the case moved forward to trial four months after her
• 1:12:02
  husband Jake was sentenced to life in prison.
• 1:12:06
  I think I have, yeah. Here.
• 1:12:09
  Here is a photo of Rebecca Harrow.
• 1:12:12
  Here is Jake Harrow and this is the little kiddo Emmanuel
• 1:12:20
  horror. So Jake was.
• 1:12:23
  Sentenced to life in prison for second degree murder, filing a
• 1:12:26
  false police report and assault on a child.
• 1:12:29
  Quote he destroyed. My family, my children, the
• 1:12:33
  boy's grandmother, Mary, I think it's Beauchausal, said outside
• 1:12:38
  the courtroom, adding that she had asked the judge to show no
• 1:12:40
  mercy during her son in law's sentencing.
• 1:12:43
  He never gave me a chance to see my grandchildren and kept my
• 1:12:45
  daughter away. This has been horrible for us.
• 1:12:47
  So anyway, they are continuing the search for the body of
• 1:12:53
  little Emmanuel. It has not been found yet.
• 1:12:56
  And then finally, headline from AM New York written by Max
• 1:13:02
  Parrott. This was published yesterday.
• 1:13:05
  Headline rings. Luigi Mangione trial scheduling
• 1:13:08
  puzzle throws Weinstein's third, let's call it SA trial in limbo
• 1:13:16
  Unsettled Louisiana Luigi Mangioni trial dates are
• 1:13:20
  wreaking havoc on the schedule of Harvey Weinstein's looming
• 1:13:24
  retrial. Since Weinstein took up the same
• 1:13:26
  defense counsel as Mangioni in late February, the uncertainty
• 1:13:30
  around Mangioni's dueling trial dates for the stalking and
• 1:13:33
  shooting of United Healthcare CEO in both federal and state
• 1:13:37
  court has now spread to Weinstein's planned third
• 1:13:41
  appearance before a Manhattan jury on SA charges.
• 1:13:45
  Weinstein's trial is as of now, slated to begin April 14th, but
• 1:13:49
  that might change if Weinstein's latest legal team has its way.
• 1:13:54
  They're hoping they'll be able to shift Weinstein's date back.
• 1:13:59
  And we will see. That's lot going out on in New
• 1:14:05
  York, and those guys are your old headlines.
• 1:14:15
  True crime. Headlines, OK.
• 1:14:19
  Let's just check in to see on what you guys are saying for for
• 1:14:28
  this final little bit here. Real quick.
• 1:14:30
  Jenny says I am not a new viewer law.
• 1:14:33
  Oh, I had the e-mail drafted for a while before I came up with
• 1:14:36
  all my questions. OK.
• 1:14:38
  Well, good, good. Well, Jenny, you helped the new
• 1:14:40
  viewers. I'm glad.
• 1:14:42
  Thank you very much. Scotch's mom all in the family
• 1:14:45
  was was a good one. Kimber says we must be the same
• 1:14:50
  age. Let's see, see, see.
• 1:14:53
  See, Mooney says, My stepfather controlled the TV, so I didn't
• 1:14:57
  watch too much growing up. I was outside sun up to some
• 1:15:00
  sundown or was working well, Good, good job.
• 1:15:07
  Jenny says. We always watch Wheel of Fortune
• 1:15:09
  followed by Jeopardy. In my house, growing up from
• 1:15:11
  7:00 to 8:00 PM Eastern, I used to be fixated on Jeopardy.
• 1:15:17
  I always thought that I was a great Jeopardy home player.
• 1:15:23
  Diddly squat the trouble with Tribbles, Star Trek.
• 1:15:26
  My brother named our cat Tribble after that.
• 1:15:28
  So you're a little bit older than me if you saw that in prime
• 1:15:31
  time. Prime time.
• 1:15:32
  But yeah, that's a classic. Let's.
• 1:15:36
  See. Oh Cha Cha was referring to Gray
• 1:15:39
  Hughes. OK, Yeah, I've not seen that.
• 1:15:43
  Scottish mom says my name is Melissa.
• 1:15:45
  I'm happy with my name. Good.
• 1:15:48
  Penguin says I would. Change my last name to Miracle
• 1:15:51
  because I read there were only 5 people in the world with that
• 1:15:53
  last name. I wanted to increase that
• 1:15:55
  population. Jules and me.
• 1:15:58
  Says I was not given a middle name that that used to be a very
• 1:16:01
  traditional thing. My wife was not given a middle
• 1:16:05
  name and it became her middle name when we got married and she
• 1:16:09
  changed her name to Fish, Reluctantly, reluctantly.
• 1:16:12
  It was. It's kind of a funny story.
• 1:16:15
  And and I had no dog in that hunt at all.
• 1:16:19
  Like if she wanted to keep her name, I, I didn't feel I, I
• 1:16:23
  didn't feel strongly one way or the other long as she was happy.
• 1:16:26
  But when we got pregnant with our first daughter, she decided
• 1:16:30
  with our first child, a daughter, she decided that she
• 1:16:34
  wanted to have the same last name as me and our child.
• 1:16:37
  So she changed it, and her last name, her maiden name, became
• 1:16:42
  her. Middle name.
• 1:16:43
  I love it, Archangel says The nanny.
• 1:16:46
  Lot of laughter and funny situations.
• 1:16:48
  Yes, indeed, Jenny says. I couldn't imagine any other
• 1:16:53
  name for myself. Emmy says I would.
• 1:16:57
  Legally change my name to Emmy or Emily.
• 1:17:01
  That's a good one, Robert. The ruse.
• 1:17:03
  I've been wanting to change my name so bad for years.
• 1:17:06
  But it's not a simple process and you have to be a resident
• 1:17:09
  for a year before you can. OK.
• 1:17:13
  All right, Kimbrough's Ohio says 3's company, hands down.
• 1:17:17
  That's good stuff. Jules and me, Dallas, who shot
• 1:17:21
  Jr. I remember that.
• 1:17:24
  I was I was on the younger side, but I remember that.
• 1:17:27
  Yeah, Robin says. Now, you got me thinking of when
• 1:17:30
  Bart Simpson would call MO's Bar and he'd ask for someone, but
• 1:17:34
  they were slightly inappropriate names.
• 1:17:35
  Then MO said it out loud. Yes.
• 1:17:39
  Good stuff. Intrepid, Fraidycat says.
• 1:17:43
  I always wanted to change my name to Daphne from scooby-doo.
• 1:17:47
  Good stuff. Ohio Palm mom.
• 1:17:49
  I know I liked WKRP in Cincinnati.
• 1:17:51
  Herb Tarlich, Classic, classic Taxi and Hill Street Blues.
• 1:17:58
  Oh man, I wish we knew where baby Emmanuel is.
• 1:18:03
  It's it's tough. That's a tough one.
• 1:18:05
  And last one coming in at the end, Debbie says The Golden
• 1:18:10
  Girls. Thanks guys for your comments.
• 1:18:13
  It has been a great week. Put together 4 shows we've spent
• 1:18:17
  together. We spent some time together this
• 1:18:19
  week and that's pretty great. I deeply appreciate your
• 1:18:21
  continued support and and watching of my content.
• 1:18:25
  Thank you for liking. Thank you for subscribing.
• 1:18:28
  Thank you to my patrons. There's always a link down in
• 1:18:31
  the description below to my Patreon for to my YouTube
• 1:18:35
  members. Guys, we we got so many great
• 1:18:38
  super chats this week. Thank you for that.
• 1:18:40
  Thank you so so much for that. Yeah.
• 1:18:45
  Guys are. Terrific.
• 1:18:46
  Be sure to check me out on my website, gavinfish.com.
• 1:18:50
  Hang out with us. On Facebook, in the fish tank.
• 1:18:53
  And with that, I will bid you a due until next week.
• 1:18:56
  We will see you Monday. Hopefully, hopefully, we'll see
• 1:18:59
  you Monday as we continue our true crime conversations.
• 1:19:03
  Until then, take care of yourselves.
• 1:19:05
  Have a great weekend. Thank you very much.
• 1:19:08
  For watching this video, if you liked what you saw, please
• 1:19:11
  consider subscribing and if you have any questions or comments,
• 1:19:15
  please leave them below.