Latest / Cage Match: A Roundabout Way of Meeting Nicolas Cage / National Treasure vs Primal

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National Treasure vs Primal · Cage Match: A Roundabout Way of Meeting Nicolas Cage

0:00
Oh god. Oh my god.
0:02
Fuuuuck!
0:12
We're never doing a rock version of this.
0:16
No.
0:17
What would we call that though?
0:18
Rock bottom.
0:21
Considering how we feel about his acting, yeah.
0:25
You don't want to watch the Tooth Fairy?
0:27
Not really. I'd rather watch The Pacifier with Vin Diesel.
0:29
Yeah.
0:30
Welcome back to Cage Match, colon a roundabout way of meeting Nicolas Cage.
0:34
I am your host Sean, here with my other host...
0:37
Nick! I'm Nick!
0:38
...and our producer...
0:39
Peter, hello.
0:40
...and this week we have a special guest back for the second time...
0:46
Beer! Oh, also...
0:48
Adam. I brought the beer.
0:50
Thank you, Adam.
0:51
Good job. It's good to be back. Thank you for having me.
0:53
You all know how much I love the National Treasure franchise.
0:56
I mean, yeah.
0:57
So I appreciate you indulging me on this.
0:58
It's nice that you can actually talk about the first one now,
1:01
versus just talking about the sequel without a lot of context.
1:04
Yeah, so Peter, you watched these out of order.
1:06
Yeah.
1:07
The second one couldn't have made sense to you.
1:09
I managed to make the leap.
1:12
You know, I did some of that talk-out-loud brain thinking,
1:15
and I put it together.
1:16
Ah, nice.
1:17
It's such a tight-knit story though.
1:21
So this week we are talking about 2019's Primal,
1:24
and 2004's National Treasure.
1:28
That was 2004?
1:29
Yeah.
1:30
Those were different times.
1:31
Simpler times.
1:33
I was forgetting what year I graduated high school versus college.
1:36
Yeah, you're not as old as you think you are.
1:38
I feel like I'm twice as old as I think I am.
1:41
Yeah, 100%.
1:42
The difference between 19-year-old Sean and 38-year-old Sean
1:47
is I'm worse at math.
1:51
Yeah, they don't have like annual refreshers for them
1:54
once you get into the real world.
1:56
Yeah, so this is Cage Match,
1:58
a roundabout way of meeting Nicolas Cage,
2:00
where we bracket-style, take 64 Nick Cage movies,
2:03
and put them head-to-head in four different categories.
2:05
Tough, funny, serious, and fucking weird.
2:09
Wacky.
2:11
And we are in...
2:12
Tough guy.
2:13
This must be tough guy.
2:14
Yeah, this is action cage.
2:15
Action movies.
2:16
I don't think I realized that you made like four...
2:19
Oh yeah, the regions.
2:20
Yeah, I think I missed that.
2:21
That's awesome.
2:22
It actually works out really nicely.
2:23
So in the end, you know, we'll funnel it down into four top from each of those.
2:28
So that'll be kind of cool.
2:29
These movies, it's a number six seed with National Treasure
2:33
and a 11 with Primal.
2:36
Oh, perfect.
2:37
And I'm going to pretend like I understand what any of that means.
2:40
National Treasure, 2004, Nicolas Cage plays...
2:44
Benjamin Franklin Gates.
2:45
Benjamin Franklin Gates.
2:47
Diane Kruger is Abigail Chase.
2:49
Justin Bartha is Riley Poole and Sean Bean plays Ian Howe.
2:54
I always forget that John Voight's in these films.
2:56
It's still weird that he's in a movie about American conspiracies.
3:01
But going back to a previous episode, Sean, I'm sorry that Helen Mirren's tits weren't in this movie.
3:06
I mean, Helen Mirren's not even in this one.
3:08
It's a real loss that Helen Mirren isn't in this one.
3:10
You could always just Google her while you watch it.
3:13
Probably did.
3:15
So, Adam, as our National Treasure expert, what's this movie about?
3:20
So my first time seeing this was with my parents and my brother and my younger sister.
3:26
And it was fun.
3:27
Like it is a fun movie.
3:30
It's probably more fun 20 years ago than it is now.
3:34
Our relationship with America is a bit different now.
3:38
There's that.
3:39
Also, I had very little expectation of this movie.
3:42
Seeing it for the first time, I was 20 years old.
3:45
And it wasn't like, oh, that changed me.
3:48
Like, I'm going to go home and like listen to Kid A and do mushrooms.
3:54
But what else?
3:56
Do you guys want to listen to Kid A and do mushrooms?
3:58
It was just like, it was so much better than you could have expected.
4:02
2004, Nick Cage might have only been really a big deal for maybe 10 years at that point.
4:09
Yeah, it was definitely a different era.
4:10
But he had come off of I think adaptation was one that came pretty shortly right before this.
4:15
Mastiff Man, adaptation, Lord of Wars right after this, and Weatherman.
4:20
I mean, this is kind of peak second wave cave.
4:24
Ghost Rider is like five movies after this.
4:27
When was Army of One again?
4:28
The only movie that matters, I think 2016.
4:31
Perfect.
4:32
So right in between these two movies.
4:35
Don't check the math on that.
4:37
It's right in the middle.
4:37
We're not a math pod.
4:38
Nope.
4:39
I also thought the movie was pretty well produced, directed.
4:43
Like the script, the script wasn't that good.
4:46
Okay, so we'll just jump in.
4:47
It starts in like, I don't remember 1976 and he's a kid and he's in his grandfather's attic.
4:53
And his grandfather's, what's his name, Plummer?
4:56
The like, really?
4:59
No, not Martin.
5:03
Gloss over that.
5:04
Nope.
5:04
Christopher Plummer.
5:05
There you go.
5:06
Thank you.
5:07
So Hunter Gomez playing.
5:09
Young Benjamin Franklin.
5:10
Benjamin Franklin Gates is in the attic of his grandfather's house.
5:14
This is like the first minute of the movie.
5:17
Christopher Plummer comes up there and is like, there is a treasure that only our family knows about.
5:23
And like he gets this clue of a treasure that's been fought over for like millennia at that point.
5:33
The Templar's treasure.
5:34
Yeah, the Templar's treasure and the Masons, the Freemasons have gotten hold of it and are moving it around to like fuck with the British.
5:44
And to keep it safe.
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And all they have is this one clue.
5:49
The secret lies with Charlie.
5:51
Yeah.
5:52
And that has been at that point, like leading up into the 70s where we're in this attic now.
5:58
So Ben Gates played by our hero, Nick Cage, he's like military and has like degrees in history and policy and all kinds of stuff.
6:09
And he becomes this treasure hunter moving on into like the seventh minute of the movie.
6:15
He's in what I think is the Arctic at that point with Sean Bean and some goons.
6:21
Well, and Justin Barth.
6:23
Yeah, and Riley.
6:25
Riley, who is like the best sidekick who's such a 90s kind of hacker character.
6:30
Yeah.
6:32
This could have had a much more interesting opening scene if the first scene was just Ben Gates watching Indiana Jones.
6:39
So they're in these like weird snowcat machines and they can just cross the Arctic with no problem.
6:45
And they have technology that definitely isn't real or didn't exist.
6:50
And they can just be like, we're almost there if the coordinates are correct.
6:55
Satellites existed in 2004.
6:57
Sure.
6:58
Yeah, I just really liked that one guy being like, how do we even know this is right?
7:03
And then Riley says a bunch of things that don't mean anything and don't actually point to any like conclusions.
7:11
And he's just like, so, you know, could be that.
7:15
And it's like, you're it.
7:16
But don't and then he says like, but don't trust me, I broke a shoelace today.
7:20
Yeah.
7:21
And he's like, what's bad, bad luck?
7:24
Fuck.
7:25
They end up finding their location with some metal detectors or some shit.
7:30
And they dig up a whole last ship named Charlotte, named Charlotte after the spider and.
7:38
Some pig.
7:40
That was actually the answer to the secret or the clue.
7:45
You guys brought me over.
7:46
You guys brought me over here just to fuck with me, didn't you?
7:49
You're not going to let me get through this at all.
7:51
This isn't even an actual recorded episode.
7:56
How deep does a metal detector detect?
7:59
Well, that's the thing is that that ship was only like two feet under the snow.
8:04
Somehow it's been buried there for like 150 years.
8:09
But like Nick Cage dug it up using a bottle of water.
8:13
Second time he's used bottles of water in these.
8:15
Yeah, that's that's how you find treasure.
8:19
So they get in the ship and they think there's going to be a treasure.
8:22
And instead they find a powder keg that has like some ancient pipe with an inscription
8:30
that you have to apply ink or in this case, blood to so you can read it.
8:34
That was my that's one of my favorite scenes, though, is he recognizes that like,
8:40
oh, we have to like rub blood on this and roll it out onto a piece of parchment.
8:44
And then he's reading it.
8:46
And he does it for anybody that got to listen to the episode with National Treasure 2.
8:52
He does the sort of same thing where he's like that that super Jeff Goldblum.
8:56
Like, what does it mean?
8:58
It's the the pen, the iron pen, the pen is iron.
9:02
It's made of no, it's not made of it.
9:04
It's wet in the it's a there's lead in the pen.
9:05
No, it's heavy.
9:07
It's mineral. Oh, God.
9:09
And it was just so dumb that he was able to figure out that riddle.
9:17
I know it's in about your class in about 30 seconds of talking out loud of being wrong
9:23
about everything and then just and then just knew after that to be fair.
9:28
That's how every one of us has gotten through life.
9:31
Just talking and being wrong about everything until we say the right thing.
9:35
That's just living.
9:37
One of the only fun facts that I found was, you know, as he's doing that,
9:40
one of the other guys is like, it's a prison.
9:42
It's a prison.
9:43
Talking about a prison.
9:44
And then the iron man.
9:45
Yeah. And then Riley just says Albuquerque.
9:48
I can do it to snorkel.
9:50
That's apparently a weird Al reference.
9:53
Really? Yeah.
9:54
Oh, that's exciting.
9:55
Yeah. He lost his lucky glow in the dark autograph snorkel when he went to Albuquerque.
10:00
Hey, weird Al, if you're listening.
10:02
Oh, he is. We love you.
10:03
We were at your concert. We were at your concert.
10:06
It was amazing. He played Albuquerque. It was a blast.
10:08
At this point, Sean Bean's angry that there's not a there's not a treasure on the ship.
10:12
So he blows it up and tries to trap Nick Cage.
10:14
He doesn't know about Riley pool.
10:16
And well, he said, well, it's his plan to steal the declaration.
10:20
So Ben can figure out the map.
10:23
The map is on the back of the declaration.
10:25
Yeah. And that's when Sean Bean's like, I have other skills besides writing checks,
10:29
which I don't think he does.
10:31
I think he just writes checks to people with with other skills,
10:35
because he had the one time he tries to he physically tries to break into a place.
10:39
They get arrested by like 90 cops who couldn't have been that well hidden.
10:44
He solved one part of one riddle once.
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Yeah. He does the junior jumble.
10:51
The stealing of the declaration, that scene was that sequence.
10:54
Oh, the heist was great.
10:55
That was probably the best part of the whole movie.
10:57
They figure out it's on the back of the declaration.
11:00
Sean Bean's like, well, I'm going to steal it.
11:03
And then Ben's like, well, we can't do that.
11:07
So here's a really long plan to steal it ourselves.
11:12
To protect it. Yeah.
11:14
And that's where we meet Abigail Chase, Diane Krueger.
11:17
She was not great in this movie.
11:18
No. Second one, she's better.
11:20
Yeah. I do still really like a couple of weeks to practice.
11:24
I still really do like just their bantering in these films.
11:28
No, they have fine chemistry.
11:29
Yeah, they have fine chemistry. I enjoy the banter.
11:31
There was a lot of telling women to shut up in this movie.
11:33
I was surprised by that.
11:35
2004, simpler times.
11:36
Different times.
11:38
Just after Friends.
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I mean, how many women are in this movie?
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There's her and then there's an urban outfitters cashier.
11:48
Yeah. And the lady at the National Archives thrift store,
11:52
which was just a Visa ad.
11:54
A lot of ad placements in this movie.
11:56
Like when they went to Jersey Mike's and he had to like
11:59
steal a foot long cheesesteak and a buddy had to wrap it
12:04
in the Declaration of Independence.
12:06
They don't handle that Declaration of Independence
12:08
with any fucking reverence after the initial scene
12:11
where they handle it with reverence.
12:13
Then everyone is like rubbing their face oils all over it.
12:16
The first scene where they have to like roll it out
12:18
and like there's gloves and everyone's like,
12:19
and then every other scene they're just whipping it out
12:22
of the sheet and just tearing it open.
12:24
Well, they didn't have time then.
12:26
Yeah.
12:26
Apparently they had to like look for a secret
12:29
hidden messages like now.
12:31
It also kind of pissed me off.
12:35
So he steals this Abigail chases all mad.
12:39
She gets kidnapped and then he kidnaps her back to safety.
12:43
Yeah.
12:44
Just like the kind of the and like and like has to take her
12:47
to has to take her to Philadelphia and tie up his dad.
12:52
We made a couple big leaps.
12:53
Yeah, then they're just like we're going to put lemon juice
12:56
all over this because we have to see this map and she's like
12:59
if anybody's going to do this, it's going to be me because
13:01
I'm trained to handle documents like this and like an hour ago.
13:06
She's being kidnapped by this guy.
13:08
Yeah.
13:09
And now they're sharing a breath over it.
13:11
Yeah, exactly.
13:12
I do like I do like the reasoning she's there because they
13:15
are just like you're free to go and she's like, well,
13:17
if you really didn't want me to come with you,
13:18
you probably wouldn't have told me where you were going.
13:21
Yeah.
13:22
Did we want to talk about the heist at all?
13:24
I love heist.
13:24
You love I mean, I do love heist.
13:26
I thought it was a pretty lackluster heist.
13:29
He uses the Declaration of Independence to avoid getting
13:32
shot.
13:33
Yeah, I mean it had like good moments, but it was really
13:37
like a heist of like a couple beats.
13:41
That's fair, but there are two heists going on because when
13:43
he's like, well, I don't really consider Ian's heist a heist.
13:46
That's not a heist.
13:47
That's burglary.
13:48
That's just like armed robbery.
13:48
Yeah, that's fair.
13:50
So both these both the first and second one like are in the
13:53
Library of Congress for like decent amounts of this.
13:56
I mean they were in the Library of Congress for like a minute
14:00
when Riley's like here's all these records and then they
14:03
shifted the scene out of it.
14:05
Yeah, I'm getting that.
14:06
The other one spends a lot more time.
14:07
National Archives.
14:09
This one's just.
14:09
I was getting that confused.
14:10
California Public Schools.
14:12
Yeah, I understand.
14:13
I do like how all of their security measures are just
14:18
readily available for them to like look at.
14:20
Yeah.
14:21
I mean, I don't know what the Library of Congress actually
14:25
gives out, but I don't think it's like the security measures
14:28
that protect the Declaration of Independence.
14:32
I don't think they just have that on file even like if you
14:35
have to look between seven different files to piece it
14:38
together.
14:39
I don't think that's available.
14:40
Yeah, I don't think the Library of Congress is telling you
14:42
like if you come in and you shine a green laser in this
14:47
quarter inch little now Dealey Bob.
14:50
Here's a question.
14:51
What if they do and all we have to do is go to the Library
14:55
of Congress and we can do like a lot of crime.
14:58
Then the only thing holding us back is illiteracy.
15:01
Well, all right.
15:04
I guess that's our first is our next podcast.
15:07
That's our first field trip.
15:08
Nick and Sean learn to read.
15:09
This is going to be a sweet podcast.
15:12
I don't know that high level literacy is typically the best
15:16
in for crime.
15:17
Like we're not talking about crime.
15:19
We're talking about high stand.
15:20
We're talking about good crime.
15:22
Yeah, book crime book crime.
15:24
Okay, you're right.
15:26
We're going to find treasures guys totally not related to
15:31
book crime, but I was walking my dog the other day and I
15:34
found a pile of Asian import porno DVDs.
15:42
And we're going to watch them right now.
15:43
Yeah.
15:44
Yeah.
15:44
So I've got a new.
15:45
It's a live idea.
15:46
Get nice.
15:47
Did you keep them?
15:48
I mean, are you asking if I'm just in possession of them?
15:53
Yes, because I don't intend on keeping them.
15:56
These are like one and done.
15:57
Did you make well carry them?
16:00
Yeah, I got little saddlebags that are bigger than him.
16:04
That way when you get weird looks like, yeah, my dog's a
16:05
freak.
16:06
Don't kick shame my dog.
16:09
It's okay.
16:10
Wallace.
16:11
See, I'm a weird boners.
16:13
You want they steal the Declaration of Independence.
16:15
Abigail gets kidnapped by Sean Bean and then unkidnapped by
16:20
kidnapping.
16:21
Yeah.
16:21
Well, he saves her and then they just don't take her back
16:24
because they can't go back because they have his credit
16:27
card information, which means they know who he is.
16:28
He'd set up some kind of weird room in his apartment so that
16:33
he could he could put lemons on the Declaration of Independence,
16:37
but he can't go there now.
16:38
So he has to go to his dad's house in Philadelphia.
16:41
Why does his dad have so many fucking lemons?
16:43
He has like 43 lemons in the refrigerator pre-cut because
16:47
Patrick is hosting a lot of lemon parties.
16:49
Do any of you keep lemons in your refrigerator?
16:51
Is that where you store lemons?
16:54
This is the same guy that also just had like a grip of pizza
16:57
sitting out on like some coffee table in like a sitting room.
17:02
Yeah, still warm.
17:03
Super nice East Coast home.
17:07
And he's going there because his father played by John Voight.
17:12
Apparently is in possession of the original copies of the
17:16
silence do good letters.
17:18
Is that a real thing?
17:19
Has anybody ever looked that up?
17:20
Yeah, it's very real.
17:21
Okay, all of that's real.
17:23
I'd be frankly shocked to find out that there are originals.
17:26
I mean, I'd be frankly shocked to find out there was a map on
17:29
the back of the Declaration of Independence.
17:31
If that's where our level of what shocks us is Adam.
17:35
To be fair, there was never a map on the back of the
17:38
Declaration.
17:39
What if that had just been like a one-off?
17:41
It's just been like a daguerreotype porn is flipping
17:45
those special spectacles.
17:47
Just Franklin porn.
17:48
Oh God, Benjamin Franklin.
17:52
What you know that guy was into it.
17:55
Like that's a well-known fact.
17:56
Yeah, it's like one of those pens where you turn it upside
17:59
down and the bikini top floats off.
18:01
There you go.
18:02
It's like you flip the lenses back and forth.
18:04
It's like, hmm.
18:05
Oh girl.
18:06
Yeah, you naughty.
18:07
Put that bodice on.
18:08
Now take it off.
18:11
You just got to flip the declaration upside down.
18:16
The Declaration of Independence is like the original
18:20
Magic Eye.
18:21
But yeah, they go over to Patrick Gates' place in
18:26
Philadelphia.
18:26
Where they eat pizza and then handle the Declaration of
18:30
Independence and they find a cipher key on the back.
18:34
Which they determine is why they need the silence do-good
18:38
letters.
18:39
The cipher key will give them the answer to the next clue.
18:43
He had like photocopies in his apartment.
18:46
Yeah, when Sean Bean solves the puzzle to his friend just
18:50
like pulls up the silence do-good website.
18:53
Yeah, they Yahoo'd it.
18:55
Yeah, because it was 2004.
19:00
It's like why didn't they just do that at Patrick Gates'
19:03
house? If it's just that easy, why is this happening?
19:06
Sean Bean does the whole thing.
19:08
He's working on his pad and he's like, oh, that's right.
19:10
Why is silence capitalized?
19:13
That's right.
19:13
Yeah, that's right.
19:15
Keeps coming back to it.
19:16
Yeah, it's like why are these two letters capitalized?
19:18
Because they're important.
19:21
Well, all shucks, bud.
19:22
Because they're names.
19:24
Yeah.
19:24
So then later they Yahoo'd it.
19:27
I do want to say I do really like Sean Bean's like head
19:31
goon.
19:31
Yeah.
19:32
You know, not Vinnie Jones.
19:33
It's like, it's not Vinnie Jones.
19:36
Now, it's not Vinnie Jones.
19:37
It wasn't Vinnie Jones.
19:38
Just kind of realized that treasure maps are fucking
19:41
bullshit.
19:42
Go on.
19:44
It's fucking ridiculous.
19:45
It's like I'm going to hide this thing that's super important,
19:49
but I'm going to also leave a dick ton of clues all over the
19:52
place.
19:53
It's a good point, though.
19:54
Treasure maps are fucking dumb, but I'm also going to leave
19:58
clues and I'm going to make these clues like super
20:01
figureoutable by people 200 years from now.
20:05
Where were we?
20:07
Yes.
20:07
So silence do good letters.
20:09
Yeah.
20:09
So they have to go and look at the letters, the actual letters,
20:12
but they're all wanted by the Fed.
20:14
So they hire some kid.
20:16
They pay a kid to go in for a dollar a dollar letter.
20:20
This is my least favorite part.
20:22
So the racist know the puzzle.
20:24
No, that kid fucking that kid actually really good.
20:27
I have thoughts about another kid later in this podcast.
20:31
I hated that fucking tower time puzzle.
20:34
Well, because you needed to give Riley like one thing.
20:38
He also solved that puzzle with a bottle of water.
20:41
Did he?
20:43
Yes, because he took the hundred dollar bill and he used it
20:45
as a magnifying glass to look at the clock.
20:48
Jesus Christ.
20:49
What was killing me though is Rachel brought it up to when
20:53
we were watching it.
20:54
She was like, so the clock tower casts a shadow and what do
20:59
they do if it's overcast or it's not the correct season?
21:04
Good fucking point.
21:05
It must be good for just one day and you didn't take after
21:08
this film and tell her shut up.
21:10
I'm confident.
21:11
Shut up of your mouth.
21:13
I had not actually thought about that.
21:15
I mean, I thought it was kind of a stupid gag, but I know I
21:18
not actually thought the second she said it.
21:19
I was like, oh yeah, this wouldn't work most of the time.
21:23
Okay, but see, here's what bothered me about this puzzle is
21:26
so at two o'clock the tower where the Liberty Bell was held
21:31
will like cast a shadow over a specific brick that within
21:35
it is the special like 3D glasses of the red and blue.
21:42
But the thing is once he gets on the roof and he's looking
21:44
at it, there's a giant Mason symbol on it.
21:47
So I'm like, has no one ever questioned that?
21:50
Like nobody ever reroofed that building.
21:53
Yeah.
21:53
Yeah.
21:54
Nope.
21:54
The the Mason symbols in the top right corner.
21:56
So, you know, there's a secret inside.
21:59
That's how you know.
22:00
Yeah, but also it's so previously established with the
22:04
Declaration of Independence.
22:05
Uh-huh.
22:06
But yeah, so then there's an extended chase sequence through
22:08
like, oh, I forgot about that scene.
22:11
Yeah, it was like just a Saturday.
22:12
Just a normal.
22:14
I was like going through Pike Place Market.
22:15
Yeah, she just dove behind a butchers.
22:19
But then I do like the market scene, not Vinnie Jones when
22:23
Abigail's hiding behind like the fish vendor like in the
22:27
stall.
22:27
She says she's hiding from her ex-husband and the one is
22:30
working assaults like get the guy to go.
22:32
It's like, can I help you sir?
22:32
And he just looks at it goes shut up.
22:35
All right.
22:35
There you go.
22:36
There's another one.
22:37
Then she says I could see why you left him.
22:39
Yeah, that chase scene through Philadelphia across the roof
22:42
and through the yeah, there are sorts of chases happening.
22:45
It was it was split up.
22:47
It was just a weird a weird segue like it didn't need to
22:52
happen.
22:52
Well, it gave Sean Bean the declaration.
22:55
It also and then it also firmly established him as like the
22:59
villain.
23:00
Yeah, and then yes, you know only an hour and 20 minutes
23:03
into this movie Ben gets arrested.
23:06
This is where this and this is where Harvey Keitel starts to
23:10
really make become a firm right.
23:12
Harvey Keitel is also in this movie.
23:14
I forgot.
23:14
Yeah, he plays certain Sadusky.
23:16
Yeah, yeah, but that's like that's the point.
23:21
His finger on like, you know, no, no, no.
23:26
He's he's introduced.
23:29
He's introduced in DC at the heist and then he's brought
23:34
back in Philadelphia when they when they go when they find
23:37
out he's he's been at his dad's place.
23:38
But like after this this chase scene and Ben Gates is arrested.
23:42
That's when he really gets to make a firm established
23:45
character and he does become critical character through the
23:49
rest of the movie at that point in the sequel to I mean kind
23:52
of what in custody they make a deal to get the declaration
23:55
back from Sean Bean by going to a naval ship like on a tour.
23:59
Yeah, they basically combined forces.
24:02
He has to jump off a ship because Sean Bean's guys are in
24:05
the water with scuba gear to get him away.
24:07
I've always wanted to have one of those like scuba missile
24:10
things.
24:11
Yeah, those would be great.
24:12
Wouldn't it be cool?
24:13
That'd be so much fun as somebody who doesn't swim super
24:16
well would have been very handy would have been fantastic
24:19
that time.
24:19
My kayak tipped over at Lake Washington.
24:21
Shout out to the people who rescued us that one time.
24:25
They gave me a ham sandwich.
24:26
And this is where we're kind of starting.
24:30
We're finally in the final like 30 minutes of this film.
24:33
They get to yeah, they wrap it up pretty quick.
24:37
Yeah, they find out where the vault is underneath or with
24:43
in a Mason's like under Trinity Church under Trinity Church
24:47
Broad Street and here.
24:48
But the wall was probably in Wall Street here.
24:51
And yeah, and the clues are dumb.
24:54
See, here's the thing where I think the second movie is
24:57
better is there's an actual like cool dungeon.
25:00
And this one it's just like here's an old elevator that
25:04
Ben Franklin made.
25:05
Here's some shitty stairs.
25:07
Here's some shitty stairs.
25:07
Good luck, y'all.
25:08
Yeah, and then that dude just fucking falls to his death
25:12
horribly.
25:13
Yeah, not Vinnie Jones.
25:14
That was fucking awesome.
25:15
Also, that's part of the movie.
25:17
Something that I didn't scream much something that I perfect
25:20
opportunity for a Wilhelm screen, right?
25:23
Sorry, something that I hadn't picked up on it.
25:25
Admittedly very stupidly hadn't picked up on in probably
25:29
the dozen or so times.
25:31
I've seen this movie is when they get into that vault and
25:33
they're like, oh, that's a that's a chandelier and he
25:36
hits his torch to it and like lights up that entire shaft
25:40
that that whole thing was made of wood.
25:44
I was sitting there looking at it.
25:45
I was like, I don't know how I just glossed over this for
25:49
the last 20 years chandelier of wood.
25:51
You're in a room full of wood.
25:52
That's old as fuck with no ventilation.
25:55
Yeah.
25:55
So yeah, there's a little action where like all the stairs
25:58
are falling apart.
25:59
They have to jump on these elevators at one point.
26:01
Nick Cage has to choose between the girl and the declaration.
26:05
Do you trust me?
26:05
Yeah, being directed is like imagine you're somehow Indiana
26:10
Jones and Han Solo at the same time.
26:12
To be fair, Nick Cage did steal the kiss before that scene.
26:15
So she fell.
26:16
He got that scene was so dumb.
26:19
Yeah, when they're especially because the goon the goon
26:22
follow.
26:23
What doesn't this ever happen to me like in that that shitty
26:27
Scottish accent because you're a bad guy, dude.
26:29
Yeah, you don't get smooches.
26:32
Yeah, but yeah, like he drops her on that thing after previously
26:35
seeing a dude fall on a piece of that wood.
26:37
For him just stepping on it.
26:40
Do you trust me?
26:43
But they get down there.
26:44
They find an empty chamber.
26:48
There's a lamp in there.
26:49
There's a lantern in there.
26:50
The Gates's spin some bullshit about how you know, Paul Revere
26:55
reference.
26:56
So the next clues in Boston, so they send them off and they
27:00
leave them down there to either die or to come back for if
27:04
the clues not there.
27:05
The good guys in the good guys.
27:06
Riley, Ben, Patrick and Abigail and then they're in the room.
27:11
Then they find the actual treasure vault behind a hidden
27:13
wall, but it's already been cleared out.
27:16
And then that's when father and son have the holes like, you
27:19
know, you were right son.
27:20
Yeah, we didn't find it, but it means it's true.
27:22
It means we'll find it one day.
27:24
And then yeah, and then they realized like there's got to be
27:26
a way out of here.
27:27
In case your father's the first thing they would have done
27:30
after digging the original shaft is dig a secondary shaft
27:33
for air.
27:34
Yeah.
27:34
And then so we can get out of here.
27:36
They use the pipe to open a secret door to enter another
27:40
vault that has everything.
27:41
And here's my issue with this entire movie cut out the first
27:45
vault.
27:45
I really enjoyed this movie.
27:47
I have for a long time.
27:48
I will continue to enjoy it.
27:49
I really enjoyed my rewatch of it.
27:51
It definitely was overwritten.
27:54
I agree with you.
27:55
So they find the treasure then.
27:56
Yes, there's a staircase.
27:58
There's another door that leads to out of another grave right
28:01
next to the first one, which means if you just would have
28:04
gone two slats over you could have avoided all of that
28:08
bullshit.
28:09
That wasn't that wasn't in the clues.
28:11
I know but it's my same issue with the game Skyrim.
28:15
You go through an annoying door over there.
28:17
You go through an annoying ass dungeon to get a treasure
28:18
and then there's just a back door.
28:21
Yeah, or the uncharted games.
28:23
Yeah, it's like I'm deep underground in untouched ruins.
28:26
Why is somebody shooting at me?
28:28
But yeah, then they get their freedom by when they talk to
28:32
Sandusky.
28:33
They get their freedom.
28:35
Well, yes, they secure their freedom.
28:37
They bargain with Sandusky and you know while he's talking
28:42
to Sandusky, Sandusky has a mason ring.
28:45
Yeah, and then Sandusky just happens to know all this shit
28:49
about this.
28:49
Just said to Sadusky or Sadusky.
28:53
There's a do ski is worse.
28:54
Let's say that he is definitely somebody else.
28:56
Okay, Sandusky is the guy who does other things with his
28:59
finger rings.
29:00
No, by the way, there's a pinky ring with the mason symbol
29:03
on it.
29:04
Harvey Keitel knows a bunch about the treasure.
29:06
I'm like, why didn't you just listen to him in the first
29:09
place?
29:09
Then well, obviously he doesn't want him to like go looking
29:12
for it finds anyway.
29:13
Oh, and they decide they're going to give it to all the
29:15
museums of the world because not one nation can hold this
29:17
which yeah, America would not let that happen.
29:21
No, no, that's on account of more terrible.
29:23
We we came a lot of us came from from the British who would
29:29
also not let that happen.
29:31
We learned from watching you British dad.
29:34
He had originally estimated that the value of this entire
29:37
thing was $10 billion.
29:39
Correct.
29:40
Yeah.
29:40
Well, I okay.
29:42
Yes.
29:42
He he Harvey Keitel was going to arrest him and he was like
29:45
whoa about five stories below.
29:47
Yeah, there's about $10 billion worth of history, but how
29:50
would you quantify?
29:52
Yeah, even still.
29:53
Okay.
29:54
So let's just call it $5 billion.
29:56
Sure.
29:57
What is 1% of 5 billion 1% of 5 billion would be 50 million.
30:03
I think 50 million.
30:04
So then Riley Poole walked on the $25 million and all he got
30:08
was that fucking spider.
30:10
Yeah, and that's what he's bitching about in the second
30:12
movie, which he wrecks in the second movie with a cardboard
30:16
cut out of him in it.
30:17
That's right.
30:18
It's to he has his like sports car that he doesn't know how
30:21
to drive and you know, Gates and Abigail have this like big
30:25
mansion and then she gives him a map and he's like, what's
30:29
it to it's like, oh, you'll find out and then he chased her
30:31
in the house.
30:31
Clitoris.
30:34
I was gonna say butt stuff, but they're not Millennials.
30:40
So the clitoris is probably off the table too.
30:45
And that's national trailer.
30:46
Hashtag just boomer things.
30:49
Adam, do you have a particular quote from this film?
30:52
The one that always has kind of stuck out to me as like a
30:55
cagey kind of quote was when they're in the park right after
30:59
stealing the declaration and re-kidnapping Abigail Chase to
31:04
safety and she's like trying to she's just doing a horrible
31:07
job of acting and trying to steal the declaration.
31:10
I don't remember the exact quote, but it's the way he
31:13
delivered it where he's like, I'm going to let you hold onto
31:15
this and he hands her the decoration of his fence.
31:17
Yes, if you'll shut up, mine is mine is similar because it's
31:23
when they're in the van going to where that happens like
31:26
they're fighting.
31:27
He's like, you're still shouting and starting to annoy.
31:32
I did like when he asked her if she was hungry in that scene.
31:37
My favorite was actually not about telling women to shut
31:42
up at the the gala there at the thingy Riley's talking to Ben
31:47
over a headset and Ben's just changing out of his like
31:51
custodian clothes into a tuxedo and Riley's like, how do
31:55
you look and Cage just looks in a mirror.
31:59
He's like not bad.
32:02
And Riley's like mazel tov.
32:03
It's like they're obviously doing separate readings not
32:06
connected to each other.
32:08
Cage is just like so serious.
32:09
Like how do I look?
32:11
Not bad.
32:12
It's like that is that is not what he's doing here.
32:15
You're not picking up what he's laying down mazel tov.
32:20
Also, I mean for Josh because he's he is a patron and we'd
32:24
be remiss if we didn't mention the quote last time this
32:28
document was here.
32:29
It was being signed because he quotes a lot.
32:34
What's so good?
32:37
Cage good movie bad cage.
32:38
Good movie bad bad.
32:39
Good.
32:39
Good.
32:40
Good.
32:40
Bad.
32:40
Bad.
32:40
Good.
32:41
Bad.
32:41
Bad.
32:41
Good.
32:41
Good.
32:41
Bad.
32:43
Perfect.
32:44
I know that I don't get to have a vote.
32:45
So I'm just going to go first.
32:47
I mean you got to vote on this part.
32:48
I still get to talk medium medium cage good movie.
32:53
That's a cop out.
32:54
I'm going to I'm going to okay if I can't do medium because
32:57
I was also going to do the inversion of that.
32:59
I think this was a medium movie.
33:03
Good cage.
33:04
You know, there's good cage.
33:05
I thought that he played that character of like somewhat
33:09
charismatic treasure hunter, you know, smart adventure.
33:12
I never like pretty well.
33:14
I think I misunderstood the assignment.
33:16
I did this did not feel like I thought he did a good job.
33:18
I just did not feel like I mean this was like the cagey
33:21
est role.
33:22
No, this is I mean also I mean that's on your definition.
33:25
Look at the movies.
33:25
I listed off that were coming out around this time.
33:27
This is kind of his return to not serious roles, but he
33:31
did adaptation to movies before this matchstick men was
33:34
next Lord of Wars coming up.
33:36
This is a little more in his movie star movie star.
33:39
Yeah, era.
33:41
I would say good cage good movie and it's I mean, it's a
33:43
it's also a Disney movie, right?
33:45
It is.
33:46
Yes Rockhammer production.
33:47
It was almost a touchstone picture, which is when it goes
33:50
slightly older, but they got it to PG.
33:53
Yeah, I mean this will not be the last time I've seen this
33:56
movie saying so I'm with Peter.
34:00
I thought it was good.
34:01
Good cage medium movie.
34:04
We've seen better heists.
34:05
We've seen better puzzle-solving, you know, we've seen more
34:08
concise stories.
34:09
Definitely that we've definitely seen all of those things
34:12
multiple times.
34:13
Yeah, I mean it's a mid seed.
34:17
Yeah, if this thing were 20 minutes shorter, I think oh,
34:21
we've got a tight fun fucking romp of a movie.
34:24
Yeah, if you could break it down and make it 30 minutes
34:29
shorter.
34:29
Yeah, put it in and at like an hour 45.
34:33
You'd have me there.
34:34
Yeah.
34:34
Now. I mean, that's really the thing is this just it's so
34:38
long take a minute away from every scene.
34:41
You'll easily lose half an hour from this movie.
34:43
Right like I mean won't miss any content just just the
34:47
scene where the the declaration exchanges hands because I
34:52
don't remember Abigail or Riley or whoever fucking falls down
34:55
and it goes out.
34:56
It's like run over by a bus and shit and then it just like
35:00
the slow mo of Sean Bean like walking up in in a suit.
35:05
It's way oversized.
35:07
Did you all notice that this it's of an era Riley Poole's
35:10
pants were way oversized.
35:12
Okay.
35:12
Every time.
35:12
No, that reminds me.
35:13
This is the thing that happens in every movie when someone
35:16
almost gets hit by a semi that just blares its horn because
35:19
someone like runs in the street that semi never stops.
35:22
No, never no one ever stops to get out of the truck and be
35:25
right.
35:25
Are you okay or what the fuck here's they just keep going.
35:29
Those guys get paid by how quickly they get there delivered
35:34
by Sean's was always just like Sean Beans.
35:38
She's fucking fun.
35:39
Sean Beans costume designer in that movie was Janko like it
35:43
was fucking ridiculous.
35:45
I was just thinking I would love to see a movie and just in
35:48
the background like super serious movie in the background
35:51
on some Street scene see some asshole and some jankos or see
35:55
a jugalow just hanging out full stove pipes and extra does
36:01
anyone else remember Urban Outfitters?
36:02
Oh, yeah, they still exist.
36:04
Do they're around.
36:05
Oh my God.
36:06
I mean hot topic those things are all around.
36:08
I haven't been to a mall in like a word.
36:10
You where do you meet women?
36:13
They don't.
36:16
Yeah, speaking of a movie that is a lot shorter, but probably
36:20
could have shaved about 20 minutes off.
36:21
It comes in at a crisp hour and 37.
36:27
37 minutes with credits.
36:29
Yeah, which you got to watch the credits.
36:31
Okay, wait, of course.
36:32
What about an after credit scene?
36:35
2019's Primal which brings back all of the CG technology
36:42
of a late 90s Jumanji.
36:46
The animal was in this movie is so fucking bad.
36:49
It's only the white jag the white jag like the monkeys are
36:57
fine because they never sign they're fine, but they never
36:59
stick on the monkeys long enough for it to matter.
37:01
Oh except for the baby monkey.
37:03
Do you remember the baby monkeys look like my nutsack?
37:08
What killed me was the fucking tapir that he's trying to
37:11
get back in a cage.
37:12
So you've got Nick cage like shuffling around with his arms
37:15
out trying to like get this fucking fake animal into a cage.
37:20
And it's terrible the tapir just walks so nonchalantly.
37:24
It's just like this is a movie.
37:27
This movie is fucking rocks.
37:31
I wish you all could have had the experience of seeing this
37:33
for the first time.
37:35
I mean, I did have that experience with a rocket scientist.
37:38
Yeah.
37:40
Talk about that.
37:40
Yeah, play some groundwork.
37:42
So I watched this on Saturday and I was at John's house for
37:47
context.
37:48
John is a rocket scientist.
37:49
Also a cage dancer for the pod and an eventual guest.
37:54
John had asked me to come over to teach him how to bake bread
37:58
which takes a lot of time and I was like, I've got some stuff
38:01
going on.
38:01
I've got school and I've got type.
38:04
I've got to watch this movie and he's like, well, we can
38:06
watch that movie while we're baking bread and listener if I
38:10
can give you any piece of advice if you want to watch Primal
38:13
for the first time 20 minutes and 20 minute installments is
38:17
the way to do it.
38:18
Agreed 20 minutes take 15 minutes off and come back and
38:23
start over.
38:24
Nicholas Cage plays Frank Walsh, Fenca Jensen plays Dr.
38:28
Ellen Taylor and everyone else is probably an extra from
38:31
Burned Notice.
38:32
Kevin Durant.
38:33
Come on Kevin Durant.
38:34
Okay.
38:34
He was excellent.
38:36
He was amazing in this movie.
38:38
He out caged cage.
38:39
Yes, true.
38:40
If this is the most phoned in cage performance, I feel we've
38:44
seen.
38:45
Oh, yeah, he really shit on this one.
38:47
This one was pretty it might be the least dialed cage that
38:52
we've seen.
38:52
Yeah.
38:53
So I mean, I feel like he tried to connect with other roles
38:56
more like even Left Behind.
38:58
I feel like he tried to left behind.
39:01
He was just a fucking ham sandwich the entire time.
39:03
Yeah, but in this movie, he's just giving us the lines with
39:08
whatever reading he felt like it's a moment.
39:10
So cage had done a movie with this director before.
39:15
I don't think anybody here how old I don't think anybody
39:17
directed this movie outcast, which I mentioned earlier with
39:20
Hayden Christensen and they felt that through the production
39:24
process.
39:24
They didn't get enough like leeway to be who they wanted to
39:28
be.
39:28
So this was their ability to be who they wanted to be much
39:32
like dog eat dog was supposed to be their big one after dying
39:36
of the light.
39:37
Yeah.
39:38
Yeah.
39:38
Okay.
39:39
So both of those failed.
39:41
Yeah, I mean I can see what cage was trying to do.
39:46
I just think they could have used a little extra like
39:51
supervision.
39:52
So just to keep him on track in this film that cage plays
39:57
not a big game hunter.
39:57
Just he he's a an exotic game hunter exotic game hunter
40:01
like but not for killing not for killing he captured him
40:04
and then sells them to zoos all over the world.
40:06
He's an unlicensed animal capture.
40:09
Yes.
40:11
And that's like being a hydro ceramic engineer.
40:14
If you're a dishwasher and he's not good at it.
40:17
He's in his like he's in his blind at the beginning of the
40:20
film.
40:21
There is a poorly CG.
40:23
Who like Jag Jag who like, you know goes for the bait which
40:29
like tears his blind out of the thing and he has like knife
40:32
fight with the CG Panther with his with the dart.
40:35
He was going to shoot it with.
40:36
Yeah, his knockout syringe and he falls into his own pit.
40:40
Yeah.
40:42
Then he like he takes all his captured animals to a ship
40:46
that's going to get him to Mexico because they're in Brazil.
40:49
Yeah, they were in Brazil where everybody was speaking
40:52
Spanish.
40:54
That bugged me too.
40:56
It bugged a lot of people on the internet as well.
40:59
Yeah, also Spanish there to be fair.
41:01
This is early enough in the movie that people probably
41:04
still cared.
41:05
It wasn't long after this where people are like so fuck it.
41:08
He takes the animals and the Jag who at this point is white
41:12
Jag the white Jag who is the biggest thing the biggest
41:15
catcher's life.
41:17
They get him to the ship US Marshall show up with a prisoner
41:21
on the ship and then the whole like white Jag story arc fades
41:27
away until it's necessary for a final conflict isn't Kevin
41:32
Duran kind of the white Jag he's the white Jag of my heart.
41:39
You could have cut out that entire story arc and it would
41:42
have made no difference.
41:43
No, I gave him like the big waiting on that one hot off
41:47
the presses, baby.
41:49
I mean the only thing that really gives him is an excuse
41:51
to use a fucking blowgun in the final scene.
41:55
But other than that like none of that is certain like the
41:58
actual story of this movie.
41:59
None of this served by him the whole animal subplot.
42:02
Well, if it didn't have the animal subplot, why would he
42:04
be on the boat?
42:05
You two are city kids, but you and I are our country folk.
42:09
So we understand these things.
42:11
So I assume I assume at some point you've hunted.
42:15
Yeah, not very effectively.
42:18
I have very bad ADHD.
42:19
That's fine.
42:20
That's fine.
42:21
But I'm guessing you I'm guessing while you were trying
42:24
to hunt you weren't smoking a fucking cigar.
42:27
Thank you.
42:28
That shit and just like just like eating crackers out of
42:32
a coffee can and just being loud.
42:34
Yeah, like gin a cigar crackers just swearing like the
42:39
first the first thing to work for the first minute of
42:43
that movie.
42:43
I was like, this is just some bullshit like for all of
42:48
the bad that was in this movie.
42:49
I really enjoyed the way that it was shot the way it was
42:52
shot.
42:52
They tended to like station a lot of props in front and
42:56
it gave it this weird like faux 3D feeling really for
43:02
me the like the one redeeming quality because it felt
43:05
like that was the only intentional thing that they were
43:07
really doing.
43:09
There's one thing that carried through the whole movie
43:11
that fucking soda can in front of the camera.
43:14
Well, did anybody else actually notice that?
43:16
No, I was so distracted by how washed out the the
43:20
color palette was for this movie.
43:21
Like I could not get over it.
43:23
It wasn't even washed out in a way that it was like lights
43:26
are blowing things out.
43:27
It was just dull.
43:29
It's they just all every khaki like yeah, the vast the
43:33
vast majority of scenes, especially ones that would have
43:36
had any kind of like real action.
43:39
The actors would have been staged behind furniture and
43:44
things like that.
43:45
So they were like really away from the camera.
43:47
So it gave us like really solid depth.
43:49
My favorite part of actually what you're talking about is
43:53
all the fight scenes that happen like behind barrels and
43:56
things where you don't see any action.
43:59
Oh, yeah.
43:59
Well, the one actually fight scene with I love when they
44:02
well, I'll just I'll just fuck off then.
44:07
The one real fight scene between Nicolas Cage and Kevin
44:09
Durant is just Nick Cage is not trying at all.
44:14
That was so lame.
44:15
Neither is Kevin Durant either.
44:17
It's like, okay, he shot me from this direction.
44:19
I'll just spray bullets reload.
44:22
Oh, no, I'm talking about their actual like fight fight.
44:24
Oh, okay.
44:25
When they're like like fisticuffs and it's just like
44:27
Kevin Durant's like putting in the effort to like make it
44:29
look like he's fighting in Nick Cage is just like buckling
44:32
knees before anything even come close to him.
44:34
And he's just like, I don't want to be here.
44:35
We're going to get this one shot.
44:36
We're going to be done.
44:38
To be fair by that time Nick Cage had been shot in the leg.
44:42
So Kevin Durant's can't do it.
44:43
Last time you got shot in the leg, not recently escapes
44:48
and that is now on the ship.
44:50
His escape scene was great.
44:52
His escape scene was pretty good.
44:54
His escape let the animals loose and stole some poisonous
44:57
snakes and now is systematically taking out all the US
45:00
Marshals and taking everyone out.
45:02
It's just to reclaim the ship.
45:04
It is snakes on a boat.
45:06
It was.
45:09
It was snakes on a boat.
45:10
And only by technicality of there were two snakes and
45:14
Femke Jansen is there.
45:15
Any fewer snakes, it would be snake on a boat.
45:18
Femke Jansen is there.
45:21
Solely to be a woman.
45:23
Like she's supposedly a doctor because of dude seizures,
45:27
which is how he gets out of prison by faking a seizure.
45:30
And this is another movie in which Nick Cage tells women
45:32
to shut up a lot.
45:33
Yeah, and then they like need to give her more reason to
45:36
be there.
45:36
So they poison the ship's captain and the the worst kid
45:40
we've seen in a movie.
45:41
Oh, I didn't think Rafi was the worst kid.
45:45
He was terrible.
45:45
Why were you so upset with Rafi?
45:47
So here's like that was out there.
45:49
Okay, he's like nine.
45:51
This was this was your bad takeaway.
45:54
I'm pretty sure they got the budget was 18 million.
45:56
It made 288,000.
45:58
Yeah, it's terrible.
45:59
Thank you for doing your research.
46:00
Not only is he a terrible actor like at in the climax
46:04
when there's a shootout and fucking loffler's got the kid
46:07
by the hair and then he has to like start shooting people.
46:10
There's like an extended like 45 second like shootout and
46:14
Rafi is just standing there.
46:17
He's in shock.
46:18
His dad's dying because he's been bit by one of the snakes.
46:22
So what killed me about snakes on a boat what killed me
46:26
about Rafi wasn't anything like his dialogue sucks.
46:28
It's funny.
46:29
He's a kid like it's terrible.
46:31
Nick Cage is a drunk dude on a boat talking to a kid like
46:34
he's going to be a dick.
46:35
It's fine.
46:36
I hated his costuming so fucking much.
46:40
It's like she could have afforded better clothes.
46:43
No, I wish that they had made him not look like if someone
46:45
said draw a picture of a kid.
46:49
He looks like he looks like Ness from Mother Earth Earth
46:53
man, you know, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna put the ball cap
46:56
and the striped shirt on him and that's it.
46:58
I'm not going to click on this profile picture because this
47:00
profile picture literally of are you online dating right now?
47:04
Jeremy Nazario the kid who played Rafi.
47:07
I'm not going to click on the photo because this photo
47:08
definitely looks like it was taken during this movie.
47:11
Yeah, and I don't want to be sad that this is his only credit
47:14
Rafi's such a fucking piece of shit.
47:17
But he's a kid like that's what kids do they have kid
47:21
they're morons.
47:23
Why didn't Frank Jansen just grab him by his scruff and
47:26
tell him to sit the fuck down because she didn't have enough
47:28
spine to do that in this movie.
47:30
She was worthless.
47:33
Her character was really limited.
47:35
I have to assume just for the storyline to let Nick Cage's
47:39
Frank Walsh who is a nothing carrot who was a nothing
47:44
character like this is but like at some point at some point
47:47
you got it like she provided in his best in his best moments
47:52
when he finally like decided to stop being a shit head and
47:56
do something.
47:57
He basically became like Kevin Costner in a baseball movie.
48:03
No, just so I know I have a bit of a love affair with Red
48:07
Rock West Jean Grey.
48:08
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
48:09
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
48:10
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
48:14
no.
48:14
Like it's like Nick Cage plays a dude who's now in a shitty
48:19
situation and he has to like generic tough guy is way out
48:22
of it and that's what this movie is trying to be and fails on
48:26
every level.
48:27
He is nothing in this film.
48:28
This is the only time I've seen them in a movie where I'm just
48:31
like I don't buy any of this.
48:33
You don't buy any of us and it's frustrating because this is
48:38
right at that kind of start.
48:40
into that third wave cage.
48:41
And this is just awful.
48:44
I think the movie just didn't do a super good job
48:47
of selling us what he is.
48:49
He's just, I mean, kind of a shithead.
48:52
And I've known plenty of people just like him.
48:55
And I can look at him and be like, oh, yeah.
48:58
Because I don't know, I think there's a character there.
49:02
I think the movie didn't really do us any favors.
49:05
Oh, this whole this whole movie was just like,
49:08
this is a long episode of Bird Notice.
49:12
This is a this is a USA movie.
49:14
So actually, network movie.
49:16
Actually, one of my biggest issues with this movie
49:19
was feeling like the idea had a lot of legs.
49:24
The script was how many legs fucking garbage for white
49:27
jacks got really OK.
49:28
You think of this as like at least six.
49:30
You think of this as like a late 80s, early 90s
49:33
Schwarzenegger film.
49:34
It would have been awesome.
49:36
There was a lot of potential for this.
49:38
And they just fucked off with it.
49:39
I keep forgetting that there's a white
49:42
jag in this film and the writers do, too.
49:45
Oh, it shows up every time they need some kind of.
49:48
It's just a mind to mind you that the white jags in this film.
49:51
Well, no, to like, you know, keep Nick Cage's like attention split.
49:55
I think the big thing for me is that like in a Schwarzenegger
49:59
version of this movie in 1995,
50:03
he would have been a hero character even if he's a flawed hero.
50:07
Yeah. And and Nick Cage's character in interviews, he was like,
50:10
No, I play a bad guy.
50:12
Like, I'm a I'm a pretty shitty guy.
50:13
Like, yeah, I'm kind of a poacher, but not quite.
50:16
But I'm still pretty bad.
50:18
It's like he's designed to be unlikable and performed as unlikable.
50:23
Yeah. And I give him credit for that.
50:26
I I I think it was poorly written in that in that way.
50:30
And also, also have been fun.
50:31
But but to Sean's point, the main storyline was this
50:36
this military assassin that defects breaks out of a cage on a boat.
50:41
Like they set it up that this this white jag, the super rare animal,
50:45
is going to be an integral part of the story that had nothing to do with it.
50:49
Yeah. It's really just there to kill the guy at the end of the film.
50:51
Where I felt like I was left short with this movie was the Loeffler character.
50:56
Like that origin story would be really interesting.
51:00
The Frank Walsh character also really, really interesting.
51:03
And they didn't really give us either one of those.
51:06
No, they just sort of were like, here's two characters.
51:09
We're going to give you sort of a brief synopsis of how they're terrible.
51:13
And then they have to fight on a boat.
51:15
I do feel like there's a lot of potential in this script,
51:19
but this was meant to be a quick 97 minute movie.
51:23
Let's make some money.
51:25
They did. It turns out they lost a lot of money.
51:28
I would I thought that that Kevin Durant did a fantastic job.
51:33
A fantastic job of playing Loeffler.
51:35
He was very convincing as like a fucked up assassin that did not give a shit.
51:41
He just wanted to get back to like the South American jungle and assassinate people
51:47
that that felt that that he did a great job.
51:49
Go with what you do with your love and you never work.
51:51
I I would. I.
51:55
OK, I just love killing people in South Africa.
51:59
He was he was spectacular.
52:01
Really stand by his performance in that I would have liked to have learned
52:04
more about that character.
52:06
Frank Walsh actually is an interesting character to me.
52:09
And they just sort of made him like a cheap dime store bad guy.
52:14
They was like, Oh, got some animals.
52:16
I got to I got to get him to Mexico or wherever he was going.
52:20
I got to get him to Mexico. Yeah.
52:22
And then fucking Jean Grey.
52:25
Jen Kajanski. Yeah.
52:27
Like her her weird ass little flip at the end
52:30
was so predictable and stupid.
52:32
I want to talk about her at the end when Nick Cage is like,
52:36
I need you to go down and draw him out.
52:39
So go down to the galley and like make a bunch of noise.
52:43
OK, how will I know where you are?
52:45
You won't. You've just got to trust me.
52:47
Yeah. Going back to National Treasure.
52:49
And then you got to trust me.
52:51
When I'm about to throw you onto a giant wooden platform to your death.
52:55
But it's not like count to 300 and start.
52:58
It's just like, I don't know, fucking get out there and make some noise
53:01
and pray to God that I'm in a good spot.
53:04
Again, in terms of poor editing, he puts Scuddy in his room.
53:09
Scuddy being the engineer of the ship.
53:11
I liked that. I like Scuddy.
53:13
I like that character.
53:14
But like so but that dude was just smoking cigarettes at a diesel room.
53:17
When when Nick Cage finally decides he's going to hunt.
53:21
I'll tell you this.
53:22
That's OK, because diesel is actually only flammable
53:25
and it's pressurized, like atomized.
53:28
You could throw a cigarette and just like a open bucket of diesel
53:33
and it wouldn't diesel facts.
53:35
So you don't smoke the right cigarettes.
53:37
When Nick Cage is going to hunt, finally goes to decide he's going to.
53:40
He's going to go on the hunt for Durant.
53:42
He goes into his cabin, pulls out like a compound, like bow.
53:46
I'm like, where the fuck is that in this whole movie?
53:48
Also, I see why you're not allowed to have guns on ships
53:51
because everyone dies real dumbly in this film.
53:54
Yeah, they like the US marshals are terrible in this movie.
53:58
Cops are bad. Cops are bad.
54:01
To be fair, they are only US marshals.
54:03
I do. I do.
54:04
Like Jason people are like, I'm out.
54:07
I'm out. I'm in water and I need help.
54:09
I do have questions. Coast Guard.
54:11
I do have questions about like the guy leading the US marshals
54:14
after like Durant escaped and they've like had a few failed attempts
54:17
of capturing him.
54:18
It's like until we capture him, I'm the captain.
54:21
Pretty sure that's not how captaining works.
54:23
And then especially in like non-American waters.
54:30
And then Walsh is just like, well, I don't have to do what you say.
54:32
It's like, well, if you don't, I'm going to bring you up on treason
54:35
or whatever else or no mutiny or whatever else I can.
54:38
I'm like, again, you're not the captain.
54:40
This isn't your ship.
54:41
He's not part of the crew and he's not part of the crew.
54:45
I did look up the writer of this script and did more work than I did.
54:49
I can't off the top of my head name any of his other movies.
54:52
He has written quite a few and they're all kind of this about this.
54:57
Yeah. Is he a white jag?
55:01
White jag.
55:02
White jag on a typewriter writing stories.
55:05
Like, I just have my best.
55:07
There's going to be a fucking MacGuffin in this movie and it's a.
55:10
His name is his name is Hunter Jag.
55:13
He's white and he played lacrosse at Duke.
55:15
I just had my best joke this whole podcast and you all talked over it.
55:19
You can do it now.
55:20
No, it's not worth it.
55:21
The moment's gone.
55:22
You can save it.
55:24
Save it for next.
55:24
I say it was a white jag off.
55:27
Oh, that was your best joke.
55:29
You claim to that as your top achievement.
55:32
Call the shot. Yeah.
55:35
He's like, he points for outfield.
55:37
It's a grounder to third.
55:39
All right. So good cage. Good movie.
55:41
Bad cage. Bad, bad cage. Bad movie is my is my.
55:45
Couldn't even get through the whole thing.
55:46
No, just just reuse what I.
55:49
OK, I'm going to go first.
55:51
It was bad cage and bad movie.
55:53
And the thing is, I'm pretty sure I want I would never
55:56
ever recommend anybody watch it, but I really enjoyed my time with it.
56:01
I say bad cage, bad movie, and I wouldn't change a thing.
56:04
Yeah, I'm fully with you guys.
56:06
I think this was a a enjoyable, stupid fucking waste of time.
56:11
I watched it on double speed and it was fantastic.
56:14
I love myself every.
56:17
Morning, I say original show,
56:21
and that's what this movie is.
56:23
It's an episode of Burn Notice.
56:24
It's an episode of Monk.
56:25
It's an episode of Psych, and I love it for that.
56:28
But it is awful and probably I'm putting this in one of the worst cage
56:34
performances of this podcast.
56:36
Going back, I probably hadn't watched National Treasure for a couple of years,
56:40
which is rare for me because I'm watching all the time.
56:43
You have a tattoo and you have Nick Cage.
56:46
But you can't see it.
56:47
Full on his back.
56:48
You got to rub it with lemons.
56:50
Back piece of him on the fucking torch.
56:53
I thought like I really thought I was going to go into this being like, OK,
56:57
primal is going to be the one for me that I think should go through.
57:01
Oh, it's not.
57:05
I love it, but it's.
57:08
I love scenes of it as a whole, though.
57:10
I fucking needed to stop a lot.
57:13
Oh, yeah, do we have a does anyone have a quote for this film?
57:17
I have one. I have.
57:19
Um, I have one as I don't know.
57:21
I don't I want to do it justice, and I don't think I'm going to be able to.
57:25
Rafi was asking about Nick Cage's pet parrot
57:29
because that was a weird Aladdin thing going on.
57:33
And he was like, Oh, yeah, he's a real regular Einstein.
57:37
Oh, that was that was mine.
57:38
That's right. Regular Einstein.
57:41
Yeah, it was a little lispier than that.
57:43
Yeah. Einstein.
57:45
Like because he was just always drunk.
57:47
John, John, John and I had to pause the movie at that point.
57:51
And we're only like 10 minutes in.
57:53
My other one was when they're on the ship and after Durant gets out
57:57
and he starts like breaking shit, Nick Cage starts turning on faucets
58:01
and no water is coming out.
58:02
He's like calling like, you know, there's no water.
58:04
Well, how do you know?
58:06
I know who a fucking faucet works, you damn federal clown.
58:13
What do you have, Nick?
58:14
Mine was the water thing.
58:16
No, it's OK.
58:19
I could also just go with touch my cat.
58:22
I'll blow your head off. That was mine.
58:24
Great. So we just did a little steal around.
58:26
Yeah. OK.
58:27
So how about we just do this all again?
58:31
Adam just doesn't get a quote.
58:32
That's it. There we go.
58:35
Come on, guys.
58:35
All right. So what moves forward?
58:38
Primal. You're wrong.
58:40
No. And I know it's fucking national treasure.
58:43
It is not. I'm not going to sit through two hours
58:46
and 15 minutes of national treasure again.
58:49
It's it's a more it's a better it's a more fun film.
58:52
No, it's not a more fun film.
58:54
It is a longer film.
58:55
And it is a film. Primal is bad.
58:58
Yeah. And it's enjoyably bad.
59:00
It's not. Nick Cage is terrible in this film.
59:02
And this is a podcast about the best Nick Cage film.
59:05
And this is his worst performance.
59:06
It's not primal.
59:07
National Treasure is forgettably Nicholas Cage.
59:10
I don't care. It's no, it's it's got to be.
59:14
It's not.
59:15
You've got a movie that moves at a better clip.
59:19
It has more Nicholas Cage energy.
59:22
That clip. It's entertaining for what it is.
59:25
I found more entertainment from watching this movie
59:29
than I will ever find from watching National Treasure.
59:33
And National Treasure was fine.
59:35
OK, here's how I approach it.
59:37
I've got two movies and I've got a buddy coming over
59:40
and we're going to have a couple of beers and watch a movie.
59:43
Am I going to say, hey, man,
59:45
want to sit down for two hours and 15 fucking minutes
59:48
holding hands and watching National Treasure?
59:52
We're going to have to cut some.
59:53
Do you want to sit down?
59:54
You put magnets in Pete's belly.
59:56
Ninety seven minutes.
59:58
Hold hands and watch Primal, which is fucking weird as shit.
1:00:02
And we're going to have a lot more fun.
1:00:04
I didn't have I didn't have more fun with that.
1:00:07
That's because you watched it alone.
1:00:10
You need someone to hold a hand with.
1:00:12
And next on the next round, we can hold hands while we watch it together.
1:00:15
I would enjoy that. But we're not watching Primal again.
1:00:18
Well, we're not watching National Treasure.
1:00:19
So I guess we skipped this.
1:00:21
No, I think this is the rare.
1:00:22
This is the first time we'll ever have to go to a tiebreaker.
1:00:25
I'm not prepared for this shit.
1:00:28
Yeah, well, it's fucking on you, buddy.
1:00:30
We'll do 60 seconds each arguing our case to me uninterrupted.
1:00:36
So you can't trump it.
1:00:37
You can't fucking talk over it.
1:00:39
I fucking don't.
1:00:40
Yeah, OK. And then Peter will decide who goes on.
1:00:46
Prepare your case. Go.
1:00:49
All right. So I think Primal should win because it's the more
1:00:56
just, I don't know, unconventional.
1:01:00
Conventional character.
1:01:01
He's got more just like wacky line delivery.
1:01:06
You get to see Nicolas Cage just work against his normal
1:01:13
like film repertoire.
1:01:16
And he says things about fucking faucets.
1:01:21
Sean. Proceed.
1:01:24
Nick Cage sleeps his way through Primal.
1:01:25
It's not a good performance.
1:01:27
It's not a good Nick Cage role.
1:01:29
And ultimately, we're here to figure out what the best Nick Cage movie is.
1:01:33
And it's national treasure beats Primal.
1:01:36
Primal forgets its own subplot.
1:01:39
There's he's not even the main character.
1:01:41
And yeah, he plays off type, but it's not an interesting type.
1:01:44
And he clearly doesn't care about the role.
1:01:46
It needs to be national treasure.
1:01:49
OK, I want to rebuttal real quick.
1:01:50
What? No, I can't change the rules.
1:01:53
No, every debate has rebuttals.
1:01:56
And I'm just going to say really quickly,
1:01:58
you didn't even talk about your movie.
1:02:01
You spent your time talking about Primal.
1:02:04
It's obviously the more talkable movie.
1:02:08
You can't even defend national treasure
1:02:10
because you're too busy talking about Primal.
1:02:13
I was talking about how much you talked about Primal.
1:02:16
All right. Crossed.
1:02:17
You literally didn't say anything about national treasure.
1:02:21
I said it was the better role.
1:02:24
Yes. OK, yes, it's longer, but it's not worse because it's longer.
1:02:28
But you're going to have to watch it again and it's going to go against the rock.
1:02:32
Save yourself some time in the future.
1:02:34
Peter, my ruling national treasure.
1:02:37
Thank you. Sorry, Nick.
1:02:39
It's a poor choice.
1:02:41
I don't disagree with you.
1:02:42
And I think both of these are set up for massive failure against the rock.
1:02:46
But I liked his effort more in national treasure.
1:02:51
I think Primal ultimately is a movie that I think could have been TV episode,
1:02:56
and I would have been fine with that.
1:02:58
Like, give me that in 40 minutes and I'm fucking on.
1:03:02
But yeah, you're all going to regret this.
1:03:05
I'm just going to vote for Primal next time anyways,
1:03:08
because I'm a bad loser.
1:03:12
I love a good poor sport.
1:03:14
Yeah. So is Kevin Durant.
1:03:15
You know, I don't it's not like I bring up the fact that I have to watch Army of One Day.
1:03:20
It's the fact that I have to watch Army of One every episode.
1:03:22
Yeah. Oh, there it is.
1:03:24
Got it in this time.
1:03:25
Right at the end.
1:03:26
I was afraid you weren't going to mention that.
1:03:29
Still a more cagey movie, just like Primal.
1:03:32
A bad movie can be good.
1:03:34
It's the cost of your life.
1:03:35
Two wrongs can make a right.
1:03:36
Just fucking kiss me, big boy.
1:03:38
It's just not this film.
1:03:39
All right.
1:03:40
National Treasure is the better movie.
1:03:42
If that's the one I'm suggesting to people, it's National Treasure.
1:03:43
I disagree.
1:03:44
I've watched them both three times and this week.
1:03:49
I'm going to continue to watch Primal because it is honestly it's just a bad movie.
1:03:54
Fun. It's a good movie to watch when you want to watch a bad movie.
1:03:58
And it's got Nicolas Cage and he's surly.
1:04:03
He gives like a shit performance.
1:04:05
And honestly, I find that enjoyable.
1:04:08
I expect more from Cage.
1:04:10
I am at this point.
1:04:11
I am watching Nicolas Cage.
1:04:12
What's that? I am, though.
1:04:14
That's kind of the whole point of this.
1:04:16
It's like that it was like that that restaurant in St. Louis where their waiters are meant to be rude to you.
1:04:23
Oh, God. Yeah, we saw a place like that in Vegas.
1:04:27
That's Johnny Dickholes.
1:04:29
Johnny Johnny Dickholes.
1:04:31
He he was trained by that waitstaff.
1:04:36
Well, everyone here, Johnny Dickholes, please rate, review and subscribe.
1:04:40
Thank you guys for having me again.
1:04:41
This was a lot of fun.
1:04:42
Oh, you're still here. Yeah.
1:04:43
Welcome back. Jesus Christ.
1:04:45
Love you, Adam. Thank you for coming.
1:04:47
I had a really good time.
1:04:49
Thank you for letting me have an excuse to watch that fucking movie.
1:04:53
Yeah, you can also support us on Patreon at Patreon.com slash Cage Match.
1:04:58
Also, special thanks to all of our Sparkle buddies, Josh, Sean, Josie, Rico, Matt and Adam.
1:05:04
And for our Cage dancers, Ira and John, thank you for your support.
1:05:09
Or on Reddit if you want to chat with us or yell at us for our dumb shit at Cage Match Pod.
1:05:15
Whoever keeps thumbs downing our stuff on Reddit, fuck off.
1:05:19
Or keep it up. Yeah, no, I like the conflict.
1:05:23
And I've got all these fucking exotic animals I bought for apparently no goddamn reason.
1:05:28
We'll give you one percent.
1:05:30
You can have them.
1:05:32
Thought it was going to be a good season two bit.
1:05:46
Just saying.
1:05:46
President Levin Diesel has recruited Zachary Levi into his gang, people who don't like the Rock.
1:05:56
Oh, that's great.
1:05:57
I always out there like practicing like gang moves like sweet like a gang move,
1:06:05
you know, like dance moves on the pick up basketball court.
1:06:09
Yeah, it's just West Side Story.
1:06:16
What was the name of the kid in the other movie?
1:06:17
Something Gomez?
1:06:19
Yeah, Hunter Gomez.
1:06:20
There we go.
1:06:21
Oh, man, that's a name Republicans would hate.
1:06:24
Hunter Gomez. Hunter Gomez.
1:06:26
Yeah, they're two least favorite things.
1:06:29
You better not own a laptop place.
1:06:31
The Mexican form of lacrosse.
1:06:34
Oh, God, I hope the most dangerous game of all.
1:06:37
That can't go.
1:06:39
They can't go on the finished.
1:06:42
Peter's still recording.
1:06:43
Who knows what he's going to find?
1:06:46
All gold.