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ELLIOTT CONNIE - Spaghetti & Boundaries · Eating While Broke

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey guys, welcome to another episode of Eating While Broke.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, Coleen Witt. And today we have very
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: special guests, psychotherapist, Elliot Connie, author, and fellow podcaster.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Family therapy in the building. And I just want to
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: say this right one time. Elliot is very well known for,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: why is my brain breaking? Solution focused brief therapy. Correct.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Hey, I got it right.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Y'all don't know, when we were getting ready for this,
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: that's the first time she's gotten it right. The whole time.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Thanks, Elliot, for throwing me under the bus. I say
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: we're going to get into all the tea about that.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: I have a million questions. He couldn't even be here
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: two minutes without me asking a bunch of psychotherapy questions.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: So we're going to get into it. But I do
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: want to go over a little bit about the books
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: that you wrote before we get into your dish.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Tell us about.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: So I've written six books, a long journey. But when
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: I was in graduate school, Therapy is a very hard
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: thing to learn. And I didn't feel like I was
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: learning the way I wanted to learn. So I just
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: started going on this journey to like, how do I
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: get really good at this therapy? So in essence, I
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: wrote the book I wanted to read, basically. That was
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: my first one. And when I wrote that book, a
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: lot of people said, I had just graduated from grad school,
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: like less than a year out. And people are like,
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: you're too new. You can't write a book. And if
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: you tell me that, it's going to trigger me.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: You're like, done. Yeah.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: So when someone's like, you can't write it, I was like,
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: you can't write it. But that don't mean I can't
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: write it.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: And people said, you're going to hear no a lot.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: I've been hearing no a lot.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Who is saying all this?
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: Like fellow peers? Yeah, like fellow, my peers and other
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: people I went to school with. And people just kept
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: telling me all the limitations. But you'll learn psychologically, people
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: talk from their perspective. And I'm sure everybody has heard that. Like,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: they tell you can't do something because they're assessing it
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: from their skill set.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: So when they were telling me what I couldn't do,
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: I was like, okay, let me. re-educate you on who
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: I am. So I just, I write what's in my heart,
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: what's in my soul. And so I've written several books
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: about solution-focused grief therapy because I want people to be
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: able to know how to do this therapy approach. And
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  Speaker 2: my latest book is called Change Your Questions, Change Your Future,
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: which is a book that's not for therapists. It's actually
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: for people. And the reason I wrote that book is,
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: number one, most people don't have access to therapy. It's expensive.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: It's hard to find a good one, all those things.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: And Throughout my nearly 20 years of practicing, I realized
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: that people who are really mentally fit, they have a
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: tendency to ask themselves different questions than people who are not.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: So I wanted to write a book that taught people
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: how to ask themselves the kind of questions that unlocks
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: their potential and that helps them to heal and grow.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: And maybe not even need to, but you can just
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: read this book and completely change your life.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: I saw that title and I said, I definitely, definitely...
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Want to read it? I need to unlock some potential
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: over here.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Why don't we get into your starting point, your broke
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: dish on before you were Elliot Connie, author, fellow podcaster. Yeah.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: And psychotherapist, what's this dish you have us eating?
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: So we're going to eat spaghetti and meat sauce. And
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: this dish is special to me because, so I'm going
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: to try very hard. I can already tell. Hanging out
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: with you just for, I can already tell. I'm going
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: to get emotional at different points.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Oh, we love that. You're going to be vulnerable? We
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: love that.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: I'm going to try to get through this with my,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: you know, masculine persona intact, but I don't know. So
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  Speaker 2: I grew up in Massachusetts, which is a very Italian culture.
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  Speaker 2: And I really struggled with my mental health growing up,
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: up to and including depression, anxiety, suicidality. Life was really hard.
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  Speaker 2: My dad was a very angry and abusive man. And
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  Speaker 2: when he got really upset, he'd be mad over stuff
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  Speaker 2: like I got a C in school. He would beat me.
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  Speaker 2: And while he was beating me, he would say stuff like,
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  Speaker 2: you're not my kid anymore. And if you say that
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  Speaker 2: to a 10-year-old, it really messes with you. And then
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  Speaker 2: I would wake up the next day and he would say,
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  Speaker 2: what do you want for breakfast? And I was like,
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: an apology? Yeah. But it was just such a weird...
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: But it's just, I was.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: But that's what it was.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: That's terrible. I don't even know why I laughed at that.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: But yeah, no, because I thought you were going to
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: say you would be like, oh, we're friends again.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: No.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Because that roller coaster is pretty hard.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: But it messes with your head. It was just a
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: really hard experience. And I really struggled. And growing up
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  Speaker 2: in Massachusetts, I was born in Chicago. So when people
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: ask me where I'm from, I always say Chicago and Boston.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: I was born in Chicago, raised in Boston. And we
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: lived closer to the city. But my mother... My mother's
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: just an amazing woman, and she wanted her three kids,
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: me and my two brothers, to have a good education
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: and a chance at life. So she moved us to
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  Speaker 2: the suburbs. At the time, a lot of black people
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  Speaker 2: thought it's a better life to move to the suburbs.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So we moved to the suburbs, a place called Franklin, Massachusetts,
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  Speaker 2: and it's a very Italian-Irish community. And I had a friend,
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  Speaker 2: and it's funny, white people and black people, they talk
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  Speaker 2: to their parents differently.
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  Speaker 1: 100%.
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  Speaker 2: So I had this friend, his name was Eric. And Eric,
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  Speaker 2: he would cuss his mom out. One day, Eric had
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: a bad report card and he came home and the
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: mom was like, and I was with him, the mom
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: was like, how was your report card? And he showed
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: it to her and he said, you better not tell dad.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: And I was like, man, my mother would knock me
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: smooth out.
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  Speaker 1: Back up a second. Your mom and dad were together.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: No, they were, by this point they were divorced. They
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: were separated. They were separated. They weren't.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: But when you were with him, was it a hundred
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  Speaker 1: percent or just part-time?
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  Speaker 2: No, he was a traditional childhood. They both lived in
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  Speaker 2: the same house.
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  Speaker 1: Okay.
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  Speaker 2: When we moved from Chicago to Massachusetts, that's when they separated,
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  Speaker 2: but he was always around. My father was not an
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  Speaker 2: absentee father. He was always around. He was just inconsistently nurturing,
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: if I can say it that way. So sometimes I
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  Speaker 2: got the best version of him, and other times he
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  Speaker 2: was uber controlling. He was uber abusive, and it was
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  Speaker 2: a real problem. Kids need consistency, and I got inconsistency
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: with abuse. And it just messed with me. It messed
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  Speaker 2: with my head in a very difficult way.
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  Speaker 1: Did you end up developing high levels of empathy, like
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  Speaker 1: making excuses for his behavior at that time?
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  Speaker 2: No. I developed high levels of self-judgment. I developed high
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  Speaker 2: levels of internal criticism. I developed high levels of internal hatred, even.
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  Speaker 2: It took me a long time to learn how to
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  Speaker 2: like me. It's impossible. If somebody is beating you and
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  Speaker 2: telling you that you're a piece of shit, you're never
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  Speaker 2: going to amount to anything.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: You're not my son anymore. I don't love you anymore.
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  Speaker 2: That's not an environment to grow self-esteem and confidence. So
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  Speaker 2: I didn't have any of that for a very long time.
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  Speaker 1: Okay.
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  Speaker 2: Very long time. But ironically, cooking is one of the
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: things that helped me. Because I went over to my
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  Speaker 2: friend Eric's house one day. And Eric, his mother's side
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  Speaker 2: of the family, their last name is Carlucci. Very Italian.
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  Speaker 2: So one day I go over to the house and
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  Speaker 2: his grandmother is in the kitchen crying. And she's being
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  Speaker 2: a normal kid. What's the, you okay? Yeah. And she
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  Speaker 2: was sad because she wanted to teach Eric how to cook,
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  Speaker 2: how to make gravy. In the Italian culture, they often
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  Speaker 2: refer to spaghetti sauce as gravy. So how to make gravy.
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  Speaker 2: And Eric didn't want to learn how to do it.
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  Speaker 2: And I was in the eighth grade, I think. And
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  Speaker 2: I was like, I'll learn. Yeah. So she taught me
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  Speaker 2: and I would go over to her house and she
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  Speaker 2: would teach me how to make different dishes and it
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  Speaker 2: became an outlet to me in some sort of a
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  Speaker 2: way to this day. I still love cooking. I don't
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  Speaker 2: have as much time to do it as I'd like,
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  Speaker 2: but it just became some sort of an outlet to me.
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  Speaker 2: And I enjoyed the experience of like, I can make something,
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  Speaker 2: hand it to somebody, they would eat it and then
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  Speaker 2: tell me something positive, which again, didn't happen super often
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  Speaker 2: in my life. So my mom, this is another area
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  Speaker 2: where my mother was just an amazing woman. My mother
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  Speaker 2: hated me cooking because I would burn her pots and
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  Speaker 2: I would make a mess in her kitchen and she
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  Speaker 2: hated it. So she bought me my own pots and
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  Speaker 2: pans when I was like 13 or 14 or whatever.
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  Speaker 2: She was like, here, you can burn these all you want.
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  Speaker 2: And I would cook for my brothers. I would cook
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  Speaker 2: for myself. It just became a kind of hobby, if
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: you will, that I would do. And I learned that
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: spaghetti and meat sauce was cheap and easy to do.
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  Speaker 2: There are certainly more elaborate things that I learned how
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  Speaker 2: to cook, but we didn't have a whole lot of
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  Speaker 2: money growing up. This was very easy for me to
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  Speaker 2: learn how to make, and I ate this a lot.
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  Speaker 1: But this looks a little bit more special because of
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  Speaker 1: your ingredients, because I thought it was going to be
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  Speaker 1: spaghetti and meat sauce, but why do you have breadcrumbs
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: and eggs in?
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  Speaker 2: I'm going to show you.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Okay. Yeah, show us how to do it. And then
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  Speaker 1: just a quick question. So you were going, what did
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  Speaker 1: your friend, when your friend saw you interacting with his
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: grandma to do these cooking lessons, did it spark any interest?
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  Speaker 2: No, he couldn't have cared less. Okay. So I would
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: go to his house and we would play video games
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: and we would hang out. We would do our thing.
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  Speaker 2: And when his grandmother would be like, I want to
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  Speaker 2: show you, he'd go upstairs and play video games. I'd
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: be hanging out with his grandmother for a half hour.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: And then when that got done, I would go hang
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  Speaker 2: out with him and play video games. And I didn't
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  Speaker 2: realize that It's funny, like I didn't even know I
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: was learning at the time. Like I was really just,
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: she was crying and sad and I was like, oh,
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: you can teach me. I didn't realize I was learning.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: I certainly didn't realize I would be learning something that
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  Speaker 2: would impact my life.
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  Speaker 1: But it was something that you continued with her.
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  Speaker 2: To this day.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Not with her, yeah. Not with her, but you did.
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  Speaker 2: For a while, right? Throughout high school, I continuously, she
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: taught me how to make lasagna. She taught me how
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: to make- Damn, you know the good stuff. I can
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: cook Italian food. When I went to college and I
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: played baseball, They used to give us meal money. Like
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: when we would travel, they would give us, I think,
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: $ 5 per meal. And back then you could go to
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: McDonald's for $ 5 or Burger King, whatever. And my teammates
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: would all give me their money. And then I would
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: go to the store, buy all the ingredients to make lasagna.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: And we would like, cause I just got good at it.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: Got good at it.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Damn, too bad you couldn't make lasagna on the show.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: I thought about it. I thought about it. But you
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: know what I thought? I thought to myself.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: That's going to take too long.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: That would take too long. And this is actually the steak.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: This is what I made. Yeah. All the time, constantly.
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  Speaker 1: Go ahead, tell everybody the ingredients for all the listeners
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  Speaker 1: that can't watch the show.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: All right, so what do we have here? We have
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: ground meat, which ground beef, which will work. We have pasta,
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: two eggs, which Colleen has no idea how I'm going
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: to use those, and I'll show her later.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: We have bell peppers and onions, Parmesan cheese, tomato sauce, breadcrumbs,
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: and certain seasonings. And I'm probably just going to use
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: that one and this one.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: Some salt.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: But any kind of basic Italian seasoning will work. The sauce,
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: and just a tip for anybody, if you want to
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: make a really good Italian sauce, there's only two ways
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: you can make it. You can make it absolutely from scratch,
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: which would take way longer than we have to do today.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: Or buy the canned, cheap 99 cent.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: Oh, the can of tomato sauce. Yeah.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: Why is that?
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: Because it's usually under seasoned and super bland, and then
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: you can season it the way that you want to,
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: which we're going to do with this.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, I tried to get you the decent stuff.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: The decent stuff, they're trying to chef it up, but
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: that's actually my job. That's what I want to do.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: Man, I would love to see you cook a good
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: meal in real life for me. I hate that it
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: has to be the broke dish.
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  Speaker 2: This does not have to be the only time we
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: get together.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: I hope it's delicious. I don't eat beef, but I'm
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: doing it today. I'm doing it today.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: You don't eat beef?
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Oh, man. I had a feeling you knew what you
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: were doing the second you said eggs and breadcrumbs. I said,
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: it's something different.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, this was probably in my super duper broke days,
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: it was ramen noodles. And in my broke days, but
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: not as super duper broke, like this was what I ate.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Almost all the time. It's filling, doesn't cost. These ingredients,
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: we live in a crazy economy right now where this
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: ground beef probably costs $ 32.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: It was like $ 10.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: It might actually be horse meat or some contaminated meat
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: that got shipped in from God knows where. But back then,
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: all of this would cost less than $ 10.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: But I will say this, that we do have a
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: saying on the show, the broker the dish, the better
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: the story. Technically, based on how many servings you get
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: out of this dish, it still qualifies. It's probably a
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: total of $ 13 or $ 15, $ 20.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this cost me less than $ 10.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: Back in the day.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: Back in the day.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: Before inflation hit.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: Before craziness hit.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: Go ahead, start whipping it up.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: All right. And then you're going to just talk to
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: me as I'm cooking?
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: I'm going to talk to you as you do it.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: I've done a lot of interviews. I don't think I've
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: ever done an interview while cooking.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: I'm a little insecure about this.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: And I wore a white t-shirt. If I get any
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: sauce on my shirt, you got to tell me. You
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: are not allowed to let me sit here looking stupid.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: So if something splashes, I need you to be like,
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: there's a stain on your shirt. Okay. Okay, you got
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: to do it.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: Look, I just hope it's delicious.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: Of course it'll be delicious.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: I'm hungry.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: I made it. I actually haven't cooked.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: We've seen people bomb on this show. We've seen people
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: that thought they knew how to kill it on ramen
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: and tear it up.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Ramen?
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: Mess up ramen.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: Ramen's the easiest thing in the world to make. But
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: I do wish I had known that you don't eat
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: ground beef.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: Because I want you to thoroughly enjoy.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, so he's squeezing it.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: You have to. So when you get ground beef, it's
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: been sent through the grinder, so it's stringy.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: And you don't want it that way. You want it
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: kind of pasty instead of stringy.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: See, when I think of meat sauce, I think about
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: you throw the ground beef in the pot. You take
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: a spatula, you move it around until it looks like
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: little balls. Then you throw the sauce on top. That's
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: why you don't get it all. Okay, you put eggs
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: in it, guys. It was two eggs enough?
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, two eggs is enough. One egg would have been fine,
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: but I'm going to go ahead and use two because
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: I don't like waste and stuff. You got to mix
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: the eggs in. It'll be like a meat paste. I'm glad.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: I'm so glad. I'm so thankful that you got these gloves.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: I actually have meat aversions.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: What's that?
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: I don't like my hands touching raw meat.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Listen, I think I have that. I didn't even know
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: I had that until you said that. What is it called?
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: Meat aversions.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, because if I touch raw meat, I have
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: to wash my hands multiple times while handling it. I
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: literally have to touch it, wash, touch it, wash.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is 100% me. I have to wash.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: You know you had two gloves up here.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: I know, but I was trying to.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: I told you, man. I told you.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: I told you.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: I hope you don't touch your glasses with nothing.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: No, I'm skilled. I do this all the time.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: Look, we're going to get this whole place that could
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: be covered in salmon. That's right by your phone.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: It's inside out. We've got this.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: I'm moving your phone over just to protect you from yourself.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: Look, this dude is no rookie. This is what I do.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: It's looking bloody up in here.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: I'm going to flick someone.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: Okay, so he's pouring the breadcrumbs. I just want everyone
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: to know what he's doing step-by-step just in case this
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: dish is really dope and we end up really needing
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: this recipe. Okay, so he poured the breadcrumbs in with
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: the meat paste. Now he's pouring a bunch of Parmesan cheese.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: And I think that one has Roman and Parmesan.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: I was trying to help you out. Parmesan and Romano.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: This is fine.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: This is absolutely fine. Oh, no, that's not it. This
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: is it.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: And he's going in with the salt and pepper. Parmesan,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: bread crumbs. This look like it's going to taste good.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: But it also looks like you're trying to make meatballs.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: I'm not trying to make meatballs. I'm making meat paste.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: We learning together. I hope it's delicious.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: Will you stop saying that? I don't make anything that's
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: not delicious.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: So going back to your mom, when she bought you
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: this pot set, you started doing well in the kitchen.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: At what point does your mom say, honey, can you
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: go make that?
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: I think so. A couple of things. And you got
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: to realize it's very difficult for me to explain the
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: importance of my mother and my story. Because every kid,
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: you need to know, what's your identity? What are you
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: good at? What are your talents? What are you hoping
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: to achieve? And I didn't know those things precisely because
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: of the way my father was treating me. It just
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: wasn't an easy place to develop skills in that way.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: My mom was the first person to be like, I
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: need you to cook dinner tonight. And not because she
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: thought it'd taste good, but my mother was busy. She
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: was raising three boys in Massachusetts. She moved us to
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: this suburb where we lived in off-campus housing to a
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: college she did not go to.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: How did she work that out?
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: The owner of the house lived downstairs and he was
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: renting out the upstairs. He would rent it out to
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: college students who lived at the college that was literally
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: across the street. It was a two-bedroom apartment and me,
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: my mother, and my two brothers lived in there. And
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: my mother turned the den into the master bathroom, master bedroom.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: So it's two bedrooms. It had this den area and
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: one bathroom. And throughout high school, that's where me and
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: my two brothers and my mother lived.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Wait, she moved into the den? She gave y'all the bedrooms?
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, me and my younger brother shared one of the bedrooms.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: My older brother got the other bedroom. And then my
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: mother took over this den room and turned it into
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: the master bedroom.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: Talk about mom.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: My mother, she was a G, man. And she would
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: call me. And it feels really good when you're a
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: kid to be given responsibility. And my mother would say,
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: can you make dinner? And I'd be like, sure. And
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: I would make spaghetti, hot dogs, like whatever we had.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: And I wasn't grocery shopping at the time.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: You were the oldest?
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: No, I was the middle. But I have a lot
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: of older sibling tendencies because my older brother wasn't as dependable.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: I'll say it that way.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: We're going to watch this and be talking so much.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: He might. I haven't talked to him in several years.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: My older brother has some challenges that make it difficult
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: to have a relationship with. But my mother just trusted me. Yeah.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: That felt really good. So my mother would sometimes call
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: me and be like, I'm really busy. Can you do
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: me a favor? And I'd be like, heck yeah, Ma,
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: of course. And she'd be like, there's hot dogs in
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: the refrigerator. Can you make you and your brother hot dogs?
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: I ain't gonna lie, if I was a kid, I'd
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: feel pretty cool if my mama called me. Don't worry,
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: I would make the best ketchup and mustard hot dogs.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: But responsibility just felt really good. And then when my
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: mother got home and the thing she had asked me
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: to do had been done and she was appreciative of it,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: That began a very long journey that helped me heal
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: through all the things I was dealing with. And I
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: will forever, ever appreciate my mother for doing that. Forever, ever.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: My mother is just an impossible person to describe if
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: you don't understand.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: When did the abuse stop with you and your dad?
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: I was 19. I was 19 years old.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: That's a long time.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: The last time I got into a physical altercation with
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: my dad, probably the proudest day of my life. To
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: be honest with you.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: I have a feeling you're going to say you punched
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: him or something.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: I pushed him. I'd never addressed him before. But by
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: this time, I'm living in Texas. Me and my brothers,
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: we're all living in Texas. And my... You're going to
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: get me. I'm not going to.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: It's okay. People cry on this show all the time.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: No, I'm not.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: It's okay.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: I can feel the emotion. So me and my brothers
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: are living in Texas with my mom at this point.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: My mother, it just got to the point we're staying
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: in Massachusetts with her ex-husband being terribly abusive. was just
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: no longer survivable.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: In Texas or in Massachusetts?
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: In Massachusetts. My grandmother, very much like the black matriarch
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: of the family, my grandmother said, y'all got to leave.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: You can pick Texas, California, or come back to Chicago,
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: but y'all got to leave.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: Why did she give you those three options?
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: My mother's from Chicago. That's where all my family is.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: We had family in California, in Northern California, but like
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: Santa Cruz. And then we had an aunt who lived
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: in Texas and my mother and that aunt were very close,
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: her sister. And my mother, she didn't want to move
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: back to Chicago because it was too cold. She didn't
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: want to move to California because it's too expensive. So
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: Texas it wasn't. So we moved to Texas. My older
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: brother at that time is in college and my mother, myself,
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: my younger brother moved to Texas. And my dad, on
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: Father's Day, decided he wanted to come visit us in Texas.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: And we went to go see a movie called Swordfish.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Do you remember that old John Travolta movie?
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: I think so.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: Halle Berry was in it. Dang. Yeah. Okay. And it
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: was trash. This was not a terribly good movie. Is
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: this a nonstick pan, by the way? I don't see
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: any oil or spray or nothing.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: I thought with the meat, you don't need.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: We'll figure it out.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: It's nonstick, though.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: Okay. Then we're fine. So my dad comes and we
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: go see this movie, Swordfish. And it was terrible, really awful.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: I got to make sure this is on properly. And
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: as we're leaving the theater, my dad says to my
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: older brother, I'll never forget this, proudest day of my
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: entire life. We're leaving the theater. My dad turns to
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: my older brother and says, what'd you think of the movie?
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: And my older brother said, it was terrible. And then
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: he said, I feel like I wasted two hours of
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: my life. Now, one of the things about my dad
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: is he takes everything personally. So my brother was commenting
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: on the movie, very clearly commenting on the movie. And
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: as we're walking to the car, I'm not really paying attention,
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: but I can hear my father's getting upset. I came
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: all the way down here. This is how I get treated.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: I was like, bro, he's talking about the movie. It
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: ain't got nothing to do with you. And I had
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: just purchased a car, a 1984 Volvo. And when I
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: tell you this car was a piece of shit, I
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: need y'all to know. It was a piece of shit.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: It had a hole in the floor of the passenger side.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: So whenever I was driving and somebody in the passenger side,
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: they would be getting hit with rocks that were coming
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: up through the floor. The radio did not work, but
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: it was mine. I bought it. I saved up money
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: from a stupid job at a car wash.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: No, I'm good.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: I'm good. Don't worry. I saved up money. I told you.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: I don't know who comes in here.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: Hand plants and on the burner, guys.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: You have to feel it. You have to feel it. See,
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: where was I?
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: No, no, go on. You were talking about the Volvo. Oh,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: the car.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: I paid $ 800.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: He did something to this car.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: I paid $ 800 for this Volvo. And it was mine.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: And it was the first time in my life I'd
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: spent some time not being hit, yelled at. Because he
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: didn't live around me, so it put some distance between
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: the abuse.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: You're starting to get confident, right?
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that I'd only know. I wouldn't say, yeah. I'm
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: starting to get confident, but don't think very. I'm starting
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: to get comfortable knowing, oh, life can exist without fear.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: And we're walking to the car and I hear my
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: dad just throwing this little tantrum. Don't know what else
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: to call it, but throwing this little tantrum. And we
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: all got in my car, me in the driver's seat,
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: my younger brother and my older brother get in the car.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: And my dad got in the car and he slammed
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: the door. Slammed it. And something in me, I was
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: just done at that point. And I turned to my
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: dad and I said, I'm going to need you to
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: get out of my car. and get back into it
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: as if you respect me. And he stared at me
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: for what felt like a month. He just stared at
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: me because I had never, ever said a word to him.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: If it was me, I know my heart would have
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: stopped for a second.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: Did you calculate for a second that it wasn't worth saying?
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: It was worth saying. I didn't even think, for whatever reason,
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: like I couldn't take another bit of disrespect.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: So then what did he do?
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: He stared at me and I said, I'm dead serious.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: I'm not moving this car. It felt like I had control.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: I'm driving. I've got control. And I said, I'm dead serious.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: I need you to get out of this car and
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: get back into it as if you respect me. And
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: he got out of the car and started walking. So
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: me and my brothers get out. There's a little bit
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: of a melee between my older brother and my dad.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: And I walked up and I pushed my dad. This
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: is over. I came all the way to Texas to
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: try to heal. You're not bringing this bullshit to Texas.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: Like you're not doing it. And then he left. He
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: on foot. He walked like three miles to his hotel.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: And if y'all know Texas, it's hot. Father's Day is
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: in June. He walked in the heat rather than show
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: his son respect. My older brother, my younger brother walked
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: with him. I knew where his hotel was. So I
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: drove there. I almost forget that I'm supposed to be
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: doing stuff.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you got to be doing stuff.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: I drove there to pick up my younger brother. And
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: when we, I picked up my younger brother, drove to
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: where we were living. We were living with that aunt
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: at the time. And I called my father. There was
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: no cell phones at the time. So I called the hotel.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Can I speak to somebody in the room? My dad
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: gets on the phone and I said, look, I can
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: forgive everything that has happened up to this point. I
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: can get past everything. I promise. I just need you
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: to follow a few rules. You can't hit me. You
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: can't yell at me. You can't curse at me. You
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: can't call me names. If you can do those four things,
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: I'll get past everything else. Because in my head, I
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: had just moved away from my girlfriend at the time.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: I had a girlfriend in Massachusetts when I left. All
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: of my closest friends. I had just finished an all-American
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: baseball career. And I wanted to stay at that university
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: and keep playing. And now I came to Texas just
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: to see, like, what would life look like if I'm
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: not being literally tortured?
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: And now you brought the torture to me. So if
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: you can just not do these four things... We can
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: deal with life. And his exact response was, fuck you.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: And he hung up the phone. So I was like, damn. Like.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Backtrack a little bit.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: How are your siblings viewing this? Were they starting to
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: rag on you? Y'all just forgive him. Let it go.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: My younger brother was. Yeah.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: And because your younger brother walked with him. So your
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: younger brother clearly. wanted a relationship with him.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I can get into that as we go on.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: But my younger brother, he's just got a beautiful spirit,
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: a beautiful soul. My younger brother basically was like.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: He.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: Is. But he didn't understand, or maybe he didn't understand.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: But was your dad treating him the same way? Because sometimes... No.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Because my younger brother, he's just such a beautiful soul.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: He just wants everybody to get along. He's very peaceful, charming.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: And I mean that in a good sense. My younger
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: brother just has a different energy about him. And my
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: older brother took the majority of the brunt from my
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: dad and then me. And then my younger brother kind
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: of learned, if you stay quiet, stay out of the way.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: So my younger brother, he very much had the idea
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: growing up, why can't y'all just stay out of his way?
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: But I just couldn't.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, so after that, I take it you and your
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: dad don't have a solid relationship.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: I called him after that exchange. I called his home. Obviously,
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: he was in Texas traveling. So I called his home
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: back then, just kind of aged myself a bit. We
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: had answering machines. And when you walk into your house,
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: you see the blinking red light. You know someone has
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: left a message. So I knew he's in Texas right now.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: I want him to hear my message. So I'm going
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: to leave him a message on his answering machine. And
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: I called him and I said, okay, I just made
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: the pro request. I assume you don't want to follow him.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Do not call me until you follow them. And I'm dead,
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: dead serious. I will not talk to you until you
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: agree to follow those rules. And he's never called me again.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: I don't know his phone number. I don't think he
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: knows mine. He literally chose to continue disrespecting his son
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: instead of following these very simple rules.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: So you mean to tell me anytime you saw him again,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: y'all didn't say anything?
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: I've seen him recently. And we've never said more than
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: three or four words.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: Hi, what's up? Yeah.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: Hi, how you doing? Recently, he said, I saw my
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: brother has kids. We were at one of the games
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: associated with one of those kids. And my dad walked
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: up and he says, good to see you, son. And
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: every piece of me wanted this. I was offended you
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: called me son. It was a weird experience. I was
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: genuinely offended that he called me that.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: It sounds almost like both of you are a little
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: bit In your stubbornness alike, no?
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. I'm 100% stubborn, but I needed to be.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you needed to be.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: I don't think I would have survived. If I continued
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: to stay in a relationship with him, I'm 100% certain
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: I would have ended things. So I needed to be
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: stubborn because you wouldn't follow very basic life rules.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: Listen, I respect it. I respect it, but it's just
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: crazy to know how many years. This has probably been
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: 20 years at least.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: You know how long it's been? There's an athlete that
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: I genuinely struggle with. Whenever I see the athlete, I
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: struggle with it. And the athlete is LeBron James. And
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: the reason why LeBron James is such a struggle for
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: me is the night that happened, we went to see Swordfish,
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: was the night LeBron James appeared for the very first
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: time on ESPN. He was in high school. His high
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: school played Carmelo Anthony's high school. And now you see
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: LeBron James. He's got a 20 something year old kid.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: He's bald, got gray haired in his beard. And every
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: time I see him, I'm like, that's how long it's
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: been since my dad was willing to talk to his
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: middle child. Which, and there's, I want everybody to understand
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: that too. There's a lot of healing and power in
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: the story I've just shared. I'm not traumatized. I'm not resentful.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: I'm just really stubborn about my boundaries. I have peace
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: and joy and happiness for the first time in my
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: life because I chose to remove those four things. He
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: chose to go out with them. But if he called
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: me today, I'd answer the call. I'd answer the call.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: But would he have to say those four things?
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: He would have to agree, yes.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: Because you can't try.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: What were the four things again?
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: Can't hit me.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: You can't hit me.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: Yell at me, curse at me, or call me names.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: But technically, since then, he hasn't done any of those things.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: He just hasn't researched.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: But he hasn't demonstrated that he won't. He's still a
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: very angry, aggressive guy. He's very close to my younger brother.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: I hear stories. I know his attitude.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: And knowing your younger brother, I'm sure he's talking to you. Ellie,
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: just let it go, man.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Not anymore. He did for a while. But more recently,
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: I get it. Because I had to make that choice
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: for my own mental health. And I have 100% zero
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: regret about it. That was the best day of my
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: entire life.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: When do you decide to go into psychotherapy?
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: Around that same time, I had this wonderful professor. It's
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: so funny how many times you have really good people
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: just show up in your life that God just sends
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: because you needed it at that time. And one of
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: these really good people was a woman named Marilyn Pugh. Now,
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: after I stopped talking to my dad, life got really hard.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: My father's response to that was manipulative and complicated. So
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: we were really poor, but my dad had money or
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: at least he pretended that he had money. So we
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: were really poor. And my dad, like the next Christmas,
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: my younger brother opened the mail and he goes, oh
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: my God. And he had a check from my dad
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: for $ 500. And I had a letter too. And I
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: opened it and there was a check for me for $ 500.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: And I immediately knew you're trying to get me to
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: call you. There's 500. Cause that's abnormal. My father, he
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: was always present. And he would buy us Christmas gifts,
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: but never a $ 500 check. And I was like, so
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: I took the envelope. I put the check back in
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: the envelope. I took that envelope, put it into another envelope,
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: and I mailed it back. Because I wanted him to
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: know I don't accept it. I wanted him to really
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: know that.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: What did you do with the Christmas presents he'd send?
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: No, that year, that was the only thing he sent.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: But I'm saying, like, when he sent other years, he
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: sent Christmas presents. Did you accept those?
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was an abused child. And I hadn't yet
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: stood up to him. I've never accepted a single thing
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: from him since.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Oh, since he, since the incident. Oh, so he definitely
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: was trying to do a, okay.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: And it was probably the, I'm serious, man. It was
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: the hardest year of my life. And, but I was
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: excited though, because it was the first time, I don't
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: even know how to articulate this. This is a much
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: deeper conversation than I usually have on podcasts like this.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: It was the best time of my life because it
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: was the first time in my entire life that I
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: couldn't see the future. I knew if I stay in
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: this environment, I knew I wasn't going to last long. Yeah.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: But for the first time, there's like the future felt
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: like a blank canvas to me.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: And that was exciting.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: It was scary. That was amazing. That was absolutely amazing.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: I just didn't know what I was going to be
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: able to create.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: And how old are you at this time?
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: 19.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: Okay. 1920. Oh, so this is all the same year.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: This is all happening at the same time.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: And I had just transferred schools. I was at school
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: in Massachusetts where I had just done an all American
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: baseball year. And now I'm in school in Texas and
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: I'm literally just trying to find myself. I don't know
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: who this Elliot is. And I was excited about that.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: And I was in class and this Dr. Marilyn Pugh.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: Back then, when you took a test, they'd write the
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: grade on the test and then give it back to you.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: I took a test and she handed me a paper
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: and it said, see me, circled in red letters. And
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: there was no grade. And that usually meant you did
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: really bad.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: So I was freaking out. She said, see me. And
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: I was like, at the end of class, I'm just
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: nervously waiting. And my self-esteem is so low. I honestly
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: thought she was going to tell me. I felt now
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: I know the term imposter syndrome.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: But I felt like a fraud. Like I've somehow sneaked
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: into this college. Yeah. If they find out that I
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: don't belong here. So I literally thought she was going
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: to tell me you're not really college material. I had
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: somebody in high school tell me it wasn't an administrator
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: at the high school tell me it wasn't college material.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: So I just believed it. Yeah. So I legitimately thought, oh,
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: this is not gonna, it's not gonna go well. And
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: she said, will you walk with me to my office?
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: And as we're walking to her office, she starts telling
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: me how brilliant I am. She said, Elliot, I have a,
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: you might not think about this, but being a professor
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: can sometimes be a very boring job. She said, I
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: assign you guys to write a paper. And I have
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: three classes and about 30 of y'all in each class.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: So I have to write, read the same paper 90 times.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: But every time I get to the end of your paper,
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: I always wish it had been a little bit longer.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: And she said, has anybody ever told you you're a
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: very good writer? And I said, no. And she said,
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: what are you going to do with your life? I said, Dr. Pugh,
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: I don't really know. I just hope to graduate one day.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: And she said, have you ever thought about being a psychotherapist?
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: And I said, No, what's that? I had never heard
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: that term before. And she said, it's like a mental
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: health council. You help people heal.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: From traumas and difficulties and shameful things that may have
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: happened to them. You help people overcome challenges. And all
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: of a sudden that blank canvas started to have something
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: on it because I felt like if I can turn
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: my past pain. into a purpose, just even having that thought,
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: the pain went away. Like, I just wasn't hurting anymore
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: for the first time in my entire life. Because all
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: of a sudden, like, the past trauma, it wasn't trauma anymore.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: It was training.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah. What were you writing about in her class?
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Whatever she asked me to. She would be like, write
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: a paper about whatever. And I would just write the paper.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: She'd write a paper about abnormal psychology. I took her
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: for abnormal psych.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she just liked the way I wrote. And remember,
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: to this day, compliments mean a lot to me because
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: I didn't get them a whole lot. And meaningful compliments
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: from people with whom I respect.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: But psychotherapy is like a huge compliment. It's like, it's
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: because I could see if she said just an author
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: or something. No, she said psychotherapy. When I look up psychotherapy,
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: I'm like, that's big time.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: She said I'd be a very good psychotherapist.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: Wow. So did you start to look into it?
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: No, not immediately. I asked her a question. And her
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: answer made me not look into it.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: What did you say? How much more schooling? Yeah.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: I said, what kind of? And she said, you have
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: a master's degree. And I wasn't a very strong student.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: So I just thought, I'm not getting grad school. That's crazy.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: And I wasn't a strong student because the quickest way
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: to get in trouble at my house was school. Yeah.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: And I learned very early in my childhood that if
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: my father ever asked me, do you have any homework?
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: There was no answer I could give him to keep
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: me safe. So if I said, yes, I have homework.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: I'm going to do it later. He would beat me
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: for not doing it urgently. And if I said, yes,
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: I did it already. He would beat me for not
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: taking it more seriously. And if he came home and
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: he caught me doing it, he'd stand over my shoulder.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: And if I did anything wrong or not to his satisfaction,
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: he would beat me for not doing it well. So
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: in middle school, I learned the only answer I can
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: give to keep me safe was to tell him I
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: don't have any homework, but then I would set my
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: alarm for two in the morning. And again, if you're
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: old enough, you remember those alarm clocks that had like
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: the block numbers. I would set my alarm for two
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: in the morning and sometimes I'd wake up, sometimes I'd
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: sleep through it. So I would go to school without
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: my work done pretty frequently, which didn't lead to a
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: lot of academic success.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Led to a lot of whoopings too.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So now I have that narrative playing in my
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: head that I'm not a very good student. And here
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: is my professor saying, you'd be good at this thing.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: But it requires a master's degree. Yeah. I was like, bro,
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: you're asking too much of me at this point.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: So at what point do you end up saying, I'm
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: going to do it?
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: So I learned that you could be a counselor, something
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: called a licensed chemical dependence counselor, an LCDC. And you
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: could do that with a bachelor's degree. And I was
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: really excited. So I went and talked to Dr. Pugh.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: And I was like, Dr. Pugh, I heard what you said. Dope. Amazing.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: Thank you for saying that. I'm going to get an
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: LCD seat. And she looked me right in the face.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: She said, no, you're better than that. I want you
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: to go to graduate school.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: Man, I love these women.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: I'm telling you, women, I've had some very powerful, inspiring, motivated.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: So she said, access denied.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: She said, you got to go higher than that. And
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: I didn't know what that was going to look like.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: How are your grades at this school? Why are, look
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: at me.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: Why are these women just. They're not great.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: Because also it must have been the quality it was
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: like every time you were on I.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: Think I was a talented student and I think I
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: was a bright person I think I am a bright
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: person but so now my academic challenge was we didn't
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: have any money so when I was in school the
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: professor would assign the fourth edition of such and such
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: psychology book and I couldn't afford it because in the
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: bookstore it'd be $ 90 But in the library, they had
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: the second edition. So I would often study an edition
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: or two behind, basically.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: Did that affect you at all?
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: Of course, because the updated information meant I didn't have
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: access to all the information. So who could have been
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: an A student became a C student.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: Okay. This smells good.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: I told you.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: I'm so hungry right now. It smells delicious. It smells
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: like a home-cooked meal.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: It is a home-cooked meal. See, normally, I don't like... Oh,
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: this is my water, right?
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. This smells delicious.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: I didn't get good grades, but this woman just kept
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: believing in me for whatever reason. And then there are
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: times where it's just not debatable. Jesus has taken the wheel.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: So I graduated with my bachelor's degree. And I haven't
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: really done well enough to get into a school, graduate
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: school of any note. But I'm excited. I didn't think
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: I'd have a bachelor's degree, and now I have one.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: And I'm very happy about this.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: And I got a job. I was working with my
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: best friend. I was making $ 27, 000 a year. $ 27, 500 to
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: be specific. And to me, that's a lot of money.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: I'm really happy with life. Yeah. And then one day
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: I went back to visit Dr. Pugh. I wanted her
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: to know that I'm working and I'm doing okay in life.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: And she said, Ellie, I have good news for you.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, what's that? And she said, this university,
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: the university I graduated from, they're going to start a
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: master's program in counseling, and I want you to apply.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: God is with you.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: Is this why you take the knee? Before we taped,
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: he took the knee. He said, what did you say?
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: You said, if God is not with me, I don't feel.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: I don't feel right. I have to invite God into
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: all the spaces that I go occupy.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: What does your prayer look like when you say that, God,
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: I invite you in this moment?
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: I ask God to give me the words and speak
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: through me.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: Because believe it or not, nobody believes this, but I'm
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: an introvert.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I wouldn't think that.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: I'm an introvert.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: You're so sweet.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: I appreciate that. Thank you. But showing up on camera
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: and being visible and all that stuff, it's not super
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: easy for me all the time.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: Yo, this food looks so delicious.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: So I asked God, I need you to use me
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: today and give me the words to do a really
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: good job sitting here talking to Colleen while I'm cooking.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: Over a broke dish.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: Over a broke dish.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: Okay. So she tells you to apply for the master's program.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: My guess is you apply and you get in.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: She applied. I applied. I got in.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: And how are you paying for this program?
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Student loans.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: That's the only way I knew how to pay for it.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: But it was such the best experience of my life
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: because I remember the first class I took, we had
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: one of those professors that don't like giving out passing grades.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: Hard professors. And this particular professor. So normally I'd have
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: a top on this because you want to keep the
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: moisture in.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: I think that's the top for it.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: No, it's too small. I already tried it. See?
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: Oh, that must have been for a different pot.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: So I'm just going to put this on. All we're
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: going to do now is just let that simmer. I
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: took this professor, and I identify this moment as when
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: my confidence actually started to build. She was a very
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: hard professor, and it was a very hard class, not
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: to just blame her. Her name was Dr. Hensley. And
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: we all took the test, and this was the first
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: semester in graduate school, first major test we took. And
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: in grad school, you got to get an A or
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: B every class. Like you can't get a C or
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: you're out. And I'm nervous about that because I hadn't
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: done very well academically for the reasons I told you before.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: And now I got to get A's and B's for
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: the rest of my educational life. This is going to
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: be a challenge. And we took that first test and
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: she's handing them back. And I started noticing all of
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: my peers looking at their tests going, Oh my God.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: And they'd say something like, I got a 42. One
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: person said they got a 17. Now I assume everybody
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: else in this room is smarter than me. I get
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: my test and I got a 78, which is a C.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: It's below what I need to have. But I'm noticing
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: everybody else's grades are really low. And Dr. Hensley says
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: that the average grade was something like 72, something like that.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, I did better. When we
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: had our, we took a break in that class. During
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: the break, people went to the administration office and dropped
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: the class. And I was like, I can't quit. I
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: got to fail or succeed. I can't quit. I asked Dr. Hensley,
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: I said, so you want us to give you all
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: the information on every essay question? She said, yes, you
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: have to tell me everything about everything. And I remember
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: sitting down and I thought, okay, this is the moment.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: where I'm going to find out if I'm smart or not.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: And there was 44 people in that class. I was
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: one of nine that passed our class with a B.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: And from that moment on, I realized probably the most
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: powerful thing I could ever realize. And I want everybody
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: to hear this. This is a very important lesson. Everybody
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: needs to realize this. I realized that my dad, who
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: was telling me I wasn't worth a shit and I
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: wasn't going to matter and I wasn't going to amount
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: to anything, he was lying. And everybody who tells you
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: about your deficits, they're lying. because of their own past traumas,
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: because of their own deficits, but they're wrong. And when
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: I got that B in that class, I thought, if
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: my dad kept telling me I wasn't gonna amount to shit,
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: and Dr. Pugh kept saying she believed in me, I
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: need to work as hard as I can to see
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: which one was right. And I realized Dr. Pugh was right.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: My father- And you were thinking all of this during
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: that time?
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: For sure, yeah. I was thinking, I knew my dad
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: was lying when I got that B. I was one
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: of nine people.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: That means also though that you were carrying that with
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: you for a long time.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. You carry the messages that your parents give
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: you forever until intervening things happen that makes you say,
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: wait a minute, was that parent trustworthy? And my father
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: was not trustworthy.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: Did you ever feel like a part of you that
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: had to prove something wrong to him? To prove him wrong?
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: No. That's a great question. No, I did definitely. I
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: was very much aware that I want to live in
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: a world where I don't owe him shit. I don't
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: ever want to need him for anything because I don't
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: view him as emotionally trustworthy. So my father, when he
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: feels like you need him, he exploits that. And I
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: did not want to live in a world where he
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: had the opportunity to ever cause me harm again. And
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: probably the proudest thing about my entire life, if I
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: died today, it's the fact that my father has not
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: caused me any harm since I was 20 years old.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: Wow. Wow. So you go, you pursue psychotherapy, you graduate.
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: What is your next step?
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: I graduated and go back up.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: You use the word emotionally trustworthy.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. He was not emotionally trustworthy.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: When you're studying psychology and all of this stuff, are
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: you also like, psychoanalyzing your dad a little bit?
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. We use a book to diagnose people. It's called
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: the Diagnostic Statistical Manual, the DSM. And in grad school,
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: I had to read it from cover to cover. It's
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: about 950 pages more, give or take. And I had
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: to read it. And every diagnosis is in this book.
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: And six or seven times, I was like, that sounds
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: like my dad. You can't help it. And then around
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: that time, my mother told me a family secret that
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: happened to him that I won't share here. It's his story.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: But something happened to him that made his treatment of
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: his children make more sense. Not to excuse or to justify,
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: but it made more sense. And I was able to forgive.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: I forgive him to this day. But forgiveness doesn't mean access.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: You just can't. In order to have access to me,
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: you have to prove that you're trustworthy with my emotions,
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: with my heart, and with my spirit, with my brain.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: And my father has yet to demonstrate that. So as
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: long as that's the case.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: I love how you speak.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: I can't really talk to him.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: That's, yeah.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: And I'd love to. I would love for him to
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: call me right now.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: I love how good with your boundaries.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: I was going to die. So my boundaries came.
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: But doesn't it work the other way too? Someone that
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: comes from that background, they suck at boundaries? Yes. Because
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: to me, I don't know if that's the normal response to.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: No, we normally replicate just like we can't really help it.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: We replicate what we see. And if you think about
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: some of your own mannerisms, anybody listening, if you think
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: about your mannerisms... Little things that you do. Why do
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: you put ketchup in the cabinet versus the refrigerator? That's
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: where my parents put it. So we just replicate what
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: happened around us. The gift of my pain was it
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: taught me to analyze everything. Because I don't want to
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: replicate everything that I saw. So I knew.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: That's what I was going to say. Because kids of abuse,
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: wouldn't they... Maybe go, oh my God, when I grow up,
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: I never want to do this to my kids.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: But then they do it. When I was in the
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: seventh grade, we had an assembly. Y'all remember the assembly?
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: And this assembly was about family violence. And they took
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: the whole middle school and put us in this big
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: old auditorium and they showed us this video. And in
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: the video, the dad was wearing a stained tank top,
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: a cigarette, and holding a bottle of alcohol. And I
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: remember looking at the video and I was like, don't
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: look like that in my house. Because my dad's a
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: very articulate, educated man. Yeah. He don't look like that.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: Was he Jamaican or something?
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: No, he don't look like that. He looked like a
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: regular guy. He had a professional job. My dad looked
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: like everybody else. And I remember, so after they showed
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: us the video, somebody came and gave a lecture and
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: they said, if you are currently the victim of family violence,
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: you are 52 times more likely to be a perpetrator
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: of family violence when you grow up. And I remember
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: looking at that going, I'm screwed. You basically just told me,
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: I am 52 times more likely to grow up and
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: be a violent man. And I'm very happy to tell you,
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: I have never put my hands on anyone in anger.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: And particularly women.
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: Oh, because he was violent with your mom? Yeah.
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: Let me see your plate.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: Damn, I just lost my train of thought. When you're
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: a therapist to individuals that do come from abusive backgrounds,
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: do you see statistically show up where they repeat?
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we repeat everything. Not just abuse, but we Your
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: family is your training ground. And so you repeat everything.
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: Do you watch football on Sunday? Yeah, it's because my
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: dad watched football. Do you watch baseball? Yeah, my mom
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: was a baseball fan. What team are you a fan of?
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: The same team my parents are fans of. That's a
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: normal experience.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: But then people can also use that as an excuse
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: for their behavior then.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: But it's not an excuse. It's an explanation. You know
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: what I mean? Oh, okay. I went to South Africa
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: one time and I had to rent a car. I
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: had a hard time driving because they drive on the
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: other side of the car. Why? Because that's just what
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: So you don't see that as an excuse. You see
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: it as an explanation.
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's an explanation on why human beings do things.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: So if you put oil in here- But at what.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: Point is it an excuse? I saw Charlamagne did this
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: post today where it was like, at some point you
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: become a certain age and you get to make a choice.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: But yeah, and Charlemagne is correct. Charlemagne is right.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: So what point does it go from an explanation to
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: an excuse?
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: Why can't it be both simultaneously?
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: Can it?
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: Of course. Of course it can. There is no excuse.
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: There's no justifiable reason. An excuse meaning I should avoid
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: accountability because I have this past. There is no point.
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: There is no point where you should avoid accountability just
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: because you have a difficult past. But if I were,
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: I guess here's the best thing I can say about it.
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know how to turn.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: Oh, there you go.
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: The best thing I can say about this, let's say
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: you say on the news tomorrow, on the news tomorrow,
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: Elliot Connie arrested for domestic violence. Should I be held
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: accountable for that? 100%. Does the fact that my father
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: was a domestic abuser absolve me from accountability? No. But
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: if someone said, how did Elliot end up that way?
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: I can explain that.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: You know what? That's how I feel about R. Kelly.
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: Because I'd be like, yo, he's definitely a monster in
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: some way. But then in other ways, it's like, yo,
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: he was also a victim. So you're saying that they
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: both can be true?
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they both can be true. I am accountable. Charlamagne
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: is absolutely correct. The only thing is the meat may
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: be a little drier than I would normally have it
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: because there's no oil on the pan.
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: But other than that, it's pretty standard for what I ate.
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: I can't wait to eat. So serve you a plate, please.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: The stove is off too?
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: The stove is off, yeah.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: Do you top it off with the Parmesan just so
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: it looks cool?
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: Sometimes. I tend to put a lot of Parmesan.
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: I saw you.
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: In both the meat and the sauce, which you should taste.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: This looks so good. I'm trying to wait for you.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: I'm going to wait for you.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: It's also hot. I took it literally right out of
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: the thing. Okay. Okay.
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: Okay. So, but you're a more famous psychotherapist. So let's
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: inch more. Yes. Towards that. Okay. So you're doing psychotherapy,
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: you're healing, you know who you are and how capable
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: you are.
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: You know, you're smart.
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: Which, so now what is the next play? Now that
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: you realize you're coming into like who I am and
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: what the truth of who Elliot is. And what does
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: that unlock in you too? Cause now I guess your
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: potential is fully locked.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: To this day, to this very day. my goals have
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: all been the same. Which is, I actually live with
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: a bit of fear. If I stop walking in my purpose,
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: I fear the pain's gonna go away because that's what
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: unlocked my ability to be a happy, healthy, joyous.
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: You said the pain's gonna go away?
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: The solution to the pain, I'm sorry. The pain will
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: come back, essentially. But I don't want that.
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: I love you making Jared a play, aren't you?
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: I am, yes.
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: That is so sweet. We were thinking about you. You
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: can smell it too.
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: I have a fear that the pain will come back,
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: which I don't want. So to this day, everything is-
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: You said that the pain will? Come back. I feel
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: like that if I stop doing my purpose-driven stuff. When
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: I got out of school and I got my first
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: job in the mental health industry, I knew immediately this
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: is what God asked me to do.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: I'm telling you right now, I know I'm not supposed
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: to be eating this meat, but I can't wait. Can
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: we put the Parmesan away? All right, we're going to
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: do this together.
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: I hope it's good.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: Don't take a bite. We got to do it together.
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: Did you get all the meat on it? Yeah. I
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: know it's going to be delicious. Are we rolling?
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: I haven't eaten all day because I knew I was
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: coming here. That's actually pretty good.
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: Yo, that's the best spaghetti.
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: I ever had. If I do say so myself, cooking
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: in the studio worked just the same.
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: Yo, you can't tell me this ain't good. This is freaking,
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: this tastes like an Italian kitchen.
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: I told you.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever had spaghetti this delicious. Hands down,
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: you are the GOAT.
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: This is amazing.
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: I told you.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: I'm alone.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: So anyway, like I was saying before we took the break,
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: I've got a job at an agency. So now I
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: can get into how I became who I ultimately am.
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: And I knew I was doing what God wanted me
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: to do, but I knew there was more. I wanted
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: to be free to practice the way I wanted. And
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: the agency didn't like me doing solution focused brief therapy.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: So I decided to start my own therapy practice. And
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: it was really hard. Like, how am I going to
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: get clients? And I built it to really successful. I
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: tell people I felt successful, but unsatisfied.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: I want to back up a little bit. Why would
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: an agency not want you to do that?
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: The therapy world is very weird.
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: They don't want you to heal fast or something?
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: No. Yeah. They don't want you to heal fast and
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: they want you to do the type of therapy that
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: takes a lot longer and solution-focused brief therapy tends to
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: work in fewer sessions.
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: I can't wait to read your book.
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: Which they didn't like. But I wanted to be free
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: to do that. So I opened a therapy practice. And
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: once I built it to a success, instead of feeling satisfied,
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: I felt, I feel like there's more. So I wrote
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: a book. And then, because I wanted to reach more people.
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: But you created solution-based. Oh, you did it.
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: No, I made it popular. I learned about it in
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: grad school, but it was the only, it was the
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: only thing I was like, I think I want to
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: do therapy like this. And everybody told me you can't
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: do that and all kinds of craziness.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: And it was mainly probably because of the effects, how
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: much money you make, right?
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: It affects how much money you make. And it was
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: literally like a whole book. It was two and a
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: half pages of a whole book, but something about that
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: two and a half pages spoke to me.
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: Wow. So you start your own practice. Now you go
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: into entrepreneurship at this point.
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: With no training. I didn't know nothing about nothing.
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: Did you even have clients? Nope.
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: Nothing.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God. So you took God with you.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: I took God with me.
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: You definitely took God with you.
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. People ask me all the time, what would you
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: have done if it failed? And I tell them, I
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: forgot to think about that. That's not important.
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: Okay. So that was your second time having a blank canvas?
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: That was my second time having a blank canvas.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you do your, what were you going to say?
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: No, go ahead.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: So you go into business for yourself. How is it?
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: How long is the struggle?
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: Three months.
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: Three months?
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: Three months. I had clients pretty quickly, and it took
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: me about three months to build to the point where
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: I was making the same income I was at the agency. Okay.
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: But now did you start to understand why they wanted
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: the clients to stay long, like?
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: No, I still don't understand that. That's just weird stuff
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: that happens.
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: How does it feel when you see a client? What's
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: the word I'm looking for? Hit the, I guess the,
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: I would guess being, if you were my therapist, I
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: believe I could do anything I wanted to, right? Good. Good.
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: I'm sweating. I want everybody I know to think that.
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: Not just therapy, but if you're not inspiring the people
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: around you, you're wasting their time. So you need to
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: make people feel like they can conquer anything.
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: So how did it feel to see your clients unlock
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: that box?
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: It was magic because it felt confirming to me, oh,
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: this is what I'm supposed to be doing. But it
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: also was frustrating because I could only help people who
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: could physically drive to my office. I was like, man,
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: I want to reach more people. So I wrote a book.
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: And then within a month of the book coming out,
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: somebody sent me an email saying, we read your book.
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: We like it. Will you come give a keynote at
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: a conference in Bath, U.K.? was like, man, I've never
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: done that before. And I just heard a guy named
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: Richard Branson. He said, if someone asks you to do
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: something that scares you, say yes and then figure it out.
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: So I was like, yeah, I'll do it. I went
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: and got a passport. And then I realized, oh, I'm
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: reaching more people speaking at conference. And I did that
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: for a long time. I'm one of the most hired,
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: most frequently hired lecturers in the psychotherapy field. And then
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: I kept thinking like, man, I want to reach more people.
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: And then I got an email from a woman who said,
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: I just saw your YouTube channel. I'd like to make
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: a TV show with you. Are you willing to come
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: to LA?
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: Women love you, man.
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: Old women platonically. Romantic situations. Okay. So I said, yeah, man,
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: I'll do it. And I came to LA and she
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: set up some meetings. And within a couple months, I
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: had a development deal. And I was like, man, this
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: feels like, all right, at every step, I'm just reaching
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: more people. Same message, same dude, same everything.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: You want to free people.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: I just want to free people, yeah. And then one day,
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: so we spent about a year working on this show.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: And all I want to do is reach more people.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: And then one day I was taking a nap. I'll
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: never forget. It was a Sunday. And I wake up
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: and the woman who had discovered me, her name is Fern.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: I probably had six missed phone calls and five or
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: six text messages. Call me back. Call me back. Call
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: me back. I call her and she was like, I
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: ran into Tiffany Haddish, whom she had known from years prior.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: I ran into Tiffany Haddish. I told her all about you.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: She wants to be an executive producer on your show.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: Are you willing to meet her? And I was like, what? Yeah,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: of course I'm willing to meet Tiffany. And she said,
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: but there's only one catch. You got to be here
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: by Tuesday. Now it's Sunday. And I'm like, okay, I guess.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: From Texas to LA.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: That's what we're doing. So I booked a flight, flew
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: out to LA. We met at a Joe Coy event.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: I met Joe that night, who's a dope human being.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: And I met Tiffany Hattis that night. And the next
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: day after meeting Tiffany, my attorney called me and said,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: we just heard from Tiffany's attorney. She wants to be
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: an executive producer. I was like, you.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: Go, Tiffany.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: So that show, it's called The Elliot Conley Show. And
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: by the time your audience sees this, that show will
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: be available on YouTube. And it's me interviewing celebrities about
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: their mental health journey and how they overcame their mental
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: health journeys.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: It's on YouTube, like YouTube TV?
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: No, just YouTube.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: And she EP'd it?
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: And appeared on two episodes.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: Wow. And do you do therapy on the show? Yeah.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: Every episode is a demonstration, includes a demonstration of solution-focused
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: brief therapy.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: Oh, I can't wait till it's out. When is it out?
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: Thursday. The first episode drops Thursday. At the time we're
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: recording this.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: First episode drops Thursday.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: Again, a couple days.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a couple days.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: Super excited about it.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: I'm actually going to Tiffany's house later today to record
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: some stuff about launching the show.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: Okay. So now you're, but then today you were also,
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: you've been intermingling with a lot more celebrities, I'll say.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: And is it because of the show or is it
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: because it's just spreading?
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: I think it's just spreading. The type of therapy I do,
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: I think people are like, what's that? And when people see,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: and this is why representation matters so much. Like when
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: people see a therapist that looks like them, dresses like them,
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: talks like them, It's kind of, oh, I didn't know
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: that kind of therapist existed. Yeah. And I think I'm
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: being more sought out for that reason. But anybody who
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: calls me, I'll get them therapy, whether for me or
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: my team. I run the largest training organization dedicated to
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: solution-free therapy in the world.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: So you train other therapists?
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: I train. I'm the therapist trainer.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: So when people listen to Family Therapy, well, let's backtrack.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: Where does Charlamagne enter the scene?
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: Man, so I've been a fan of Charlamagne for a
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: really long time. And I think Charlamagne is the single
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: most important person in black mental health because he's the
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: most visible African-American saying. Therapy has been a big part
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: of my life. So for years, I've been a fan
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: of his and his authenticity and his journey. Even if
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: I wasn't a fan of everything he was doing and saying,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: I'm a fan of what he represents. And when I
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: signed with my entertainment attorney, they told me that office
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: represents Charlemagne the God. And I was like, I jokingly said,
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: then I'll only sign on with you to be my
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: attorney if you promise to introduce me to Charlemagne. Just joking.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: And he was like, yeah, I think we can do that.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: So a year goes by and he hasn't done it.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: But you already signed with him. No. Oh.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: No, I hadn't. I signed with the attorney, yeah, but
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: I hadn't met Charlemagne or anything. So now one night
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: we were at Tiffany's house, me and Fern, who they've
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: known each other for a really long time. And I'm
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: at Tiffany's house and Tiffany says to me and Fern,
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: do you guys want to see this video I made?
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: So we're like, sure. And she put some video on
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: her YouTube and she put it up on her television.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: And you know, when you play a YouTube video, the
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: next video, when it gets over, the next video just
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: automatically plays. The next video automatically played and it was
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: a Breakfast Club clip. And I turned to Fern and
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: I said, we got to remember to tell the attorney
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: I want to meet Charlemagne. Yeah. And Tiffany turned and
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: looked at me and she goes, you want to meet
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: Charlamagne Tha God? I said, yeah. That's like my brother.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: And she picked up the phone and called him.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: That's hilarious.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: Like right then and there. That's hilarious. Now we're in
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: LA and it's late. So in New York, it's even later.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: Charlamagne has to wake up early to do the show.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: So he didn't answer. But the next morning I wake
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: up and Tiffany had like group texts, me and Charlamagne
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: introducing the two of us. And then the next day,
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: Charlamagne and I had a Zoom conversation. And he's been
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: an important mentor and guide and And he.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: Picked up Family Therapy on the Black Effect.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: He actually, Family Therapy is a Black Effect podcast. They
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: literally hired me to host that show.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: Whoa.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Charlemagne is one of the most incredible people that
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: I know. And whenever I say that to people, they're
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: all like, yeah, what about this? What about this? And
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: I always say, think about this. How many people do
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: you know are as visible as Charlemagne and willing to
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: be that vulnerable? You've watched the arc of Charlemagne. And
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: people need to see more authenticity because the cure for
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: almost every mental health issue is authenticity. Yeah. Walking in
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: your truth. And I don't think I know anybody who
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: walks in their truth more than Charlamagne Tha God.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think also, not trying to talk about Charlamagne
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: too much, but behind the scenes, I think he has
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: incredible integrity.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever seen someone in the industry
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: that has... If there was no cameras watching and no,
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: he's not even promoting how many lives he's changing or
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: how much he's- He doesn't talk about- But I'm saying
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: if you were a fly on the wall, you would
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: be a very impressed fly.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: That's right. And also, if I sit here, if I
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: told you all the things, if I just went down, oh,
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: did you know Charlamagne does this with his time and
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: with his money, with his resources? Charlamagne would call me
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: and be like, hey man, don't tell nobody that. He's
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: not doing it for information.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: That's hilarious. For accolades or- That's hilarious. I didn't know
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: he was like that.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: Charlamagne doesn't do any of this stuff to seek attention.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: Charlamagne genuinely is like, I just want to put people
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: in the right position and watch them shine and grow.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: So now you're doing family therapy. You have books out.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: You have a new show coming out on YouTube with
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: Tiffany Haddish EPing.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: I think this is just the beginning of... of a
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: lot more to come, right?
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, man. I'm telling you, it's such a surreal thing.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: Social media has gotten crazy. I was on Don Lemon's
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: show this morning. I'm on Willie D's show.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: Oh, I love Don Lemon.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: Don Lemon's amazing too.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: He looks good.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: Don Lemon looks great.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: We gotta know what his secret is.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: Black.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: I don't know. He got something extra.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: Jason Lee.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: I think I saw a clip with Trevor Noah and
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: he went, Trevor Noah went in, damn, you look good.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't even know how, Don Lemon is, he's
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: a special guy. I was just literally on his show
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: this morning. And it just feels like, man, it makes
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: me emotional again, but it feels like I'm doing what
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: God asked me to do. And I don't like the
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: idea that, oh, you're doing what God asked you to
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: do so you're getting blessings. I don't think that's true, actually.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: I think when you do what God asked you to do,
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: he gives you resources to do the thing he asked
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: you to do. God has blessed me with relationships and
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: resources because all I ever wanted to do was I
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: wanted to let people know that healing is possible. No
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: matter what you've been through, healing is possible. And in
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: order for me to even know that in my core,
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: I had to have a healing journey. I couldn't be
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: born with a silver spoon in my mouth and do
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: the thing God asked me to do. And knowing somebody
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: like Charlemagne, he's interviewed me. I really respect this man.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: And the first time I went on The Breakfast Club,
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: we were talking, and I was in New York. And
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: I was like, hey, do you want to go grab lunch?
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: And he was like, sure, we're going to do it.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: But then another thing about Charlamagne, he's probably got the
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: busiest schedule on the planet. So like the next day
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: he was like, I can't do lunch. Something came up.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: He's like, yo, I'm just coming to the studio and
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: I'll do an interview. And I was like, what? He's like, yeah,
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: you ready? No, don't ever say that to me. I
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: was born ready. If you knew the shit I've been through,
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: I'm ready. But I remember walking into the studio and
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, this is just what I'm asked
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: to do. Because if, of course I'm going to have
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: a large audience because God wants me to be a
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: demonstration that healing is possible. So I can't have a
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: thousand followers I gotta have hundreds of thousands of followers
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: and God put in position to know people like Tiffany
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: like Charlamagne like Jason Lee etc who are very good
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: at getting millions of views yeah and now like I
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: was talking when I was driving over here I get
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: millions of views a week And I'm just, I'm not singing.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: I'm not dancing. I'm not rapping. I'm not talking about
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: tabloid stuff. I'm not a blogger. I'm literally talking about
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: mental health. And I think it's because God said, Hey man,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: I need you to do this thing. I'm gonna give
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: you a story. I'm gonna give you some pain because
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: you have to be prepared to do the thing I'm
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: asking you to do. But I'm also going to give
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: you some relationships that will, that will arm you to
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: do the things I'm asking you to do. So.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: So do all the people that you work with know
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: your story?
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: Most of them, yeah. Because I talk about it publicly.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: It's in all my books. I don't hide it. I
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: would tell anybody, if you have a pain or trauma
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: in your past, if you want the pain to go away,
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: you got to do two things. Honestly, and I'm not joking,
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: do these two things. The first thing you have to
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: do is you have to find the purpose in the pain.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: What is this about? And the second thing you have
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: to do is own your story. Because a lot of
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: my anxiety and depression came from me trying to hide
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: my truth. I didn't, you're a wonderful woman and I
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: respect you and you're a business woman and you're successful
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: and you do all these things. I don't want you
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: to think I'm depressed and traumatized. That's how I thought.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: So if you ever asked me how I was doing,
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: I'm doing great.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: Because I don't want somebody I respect to think of
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: me in any other way than a shining light. And
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: I had to learn it's okay. Yeah. It's okay to
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: be like, you know what? I'm doing okay today, but
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: it's been a tough week. Yeah. Or I'm having a
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: rough day, but it's okay. I had to learn that.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: I didn't know that. And when you own your story,
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: you know what happens is you might ask me, how
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: you doing? And I'm like, man, I've got a lot
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: of anxiety about what's going on in the world. I
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: didn't really sleep well last night. I've now given you
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: permission to say, you know what? Me too.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: And I can't tell you how many times, like there
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: were people I went to high school with that will
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: reach out to me and be like, bro, I didn't
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: know you were dealing with all that. Yeah. Cause I
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: hit it all. And now they're like, you know what?
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: I was going through something too. And I'm like, word?
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: Cause I didn't know you were dealing with it. Yeah.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: And The greatest thing I ever accomplished ever is I
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: learned how to love myself.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: And then do you at all struggle from imposter syndrome?
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: Not anymore?
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: It just went away. Never.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: Never. I struggle sometimes with things being so, being asked.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: I didn't know about eating while broke until I signed
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: on with the Black Effect, which was in 2023. But
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: I've seen your show and I've seen Nick Cannon on
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: this show and I saw him. The caliber of guests
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: you had. It didn't even dawn on me. But of course,
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: you see that, and you're like, man, it'd be cool
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: one day. So then when one of the producers reached
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: out to me and said, will you do the show?
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: Did I have imposter syndrome? Absolutely not. But did I
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: have surreality? Oh, this is surreal. And did I have
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: deep appreciation? Because I recognize all of this is confirmation
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: that I'm doing what God asked me to do. And
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: for as long as God asked me to be a
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: mouthpiece for mental health, That's what I'm going to do.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: It's funny because I was like, I don't know if
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: he's going to do it. Is he going to do it?
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: Is he going to do it? Is he going to
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: do it? Is he going to do it? Jax was like,
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: he's really nice.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: He'll do it. He'll do it.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: And then I heard you weren't in New York. You
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: were going to be in LA. And I was like, oh,
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: he's just not going to do it.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: But nah.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: I extended my trip. I was doing other things in
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: LA and I come out here pretty often. But I'm
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: excited to do this kind of thing because I'm just
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: a very purpose-driven person. And I genuinely, I know I've
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: said it a few times and it might sound hokey
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: or crazy, but I really feel called to do this.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: And If one person is watching this and you get
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: an email and that one person says, I was thinking
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: about taking my life and I saw that episode and
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: I now think tomorrow is possible, then that's why I'm here. That's,
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: and if I, no, I'm too busy. I can't show up.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: Then I'm letting that person down. And that's truly my existence.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: That's why I do what I do. That person needs
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: to know I was close. I was close, man. I
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: knew when I was going to do it. I know
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: how I was going to do it. I was close.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: And that person needs to know if they can just
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: hang on, the whole journey will make sense one day.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: And now my whole journey makes absolute sense.
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: Wow. I'm thankful you're here.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: Me too.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: I'm really thankful for Eric's mom that taught you how
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: to cook. Shout outs to her. And thank you all
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: for tuning in. Oh, and one last thing. I'm sorry
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: for going over the time. Elliot, the author, the book
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: that I want, which is Change Your Questions. What is it?
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: Change Your Questions, Change Your Future.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: Change Your Questions, Change Your Future, which I want to
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: hold you to it because I want a signed copy
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: of the book. Can you just tell people a little
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: bit about the book? I know why you're eating.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: I'm legitimately eating. When I left my hotel, I was like, man,
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: I need to grab lunch. Oh, no, this is a
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: show about cooking. You need to eat there. I'm legitimately hungry.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: The questions you ask yourself, tell me what kind of
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: life you have. So the kind of person that's, oh,
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: there's so much traffic. Why is this happening to me?
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: Those are not useful questions. They lead to a negative place.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: So I wanted to write a book that taught people
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: how to ask the kind of questions that are really useful.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: And the useful question would be like just what I
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: said earlier. If you have a pain in your past,
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: in your life, ask yourself, what is this pain preparing
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: me for? That's a very useful question. Not, oh, Lord,
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: why is this happening to me? And I ask both.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: I ask the why's this happening to me. When I
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: look out my window, my childhood best friend, his name
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: is Kyle, love him to death. He's still, Kyle is
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: family and his family is family. When we moved to
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: this suburb, Franklin, I looked out my window and I
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: heard a basketball dribbling. And I was like, oh, who's,
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: when you're a kid, you move to a new area,
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: you want to make sure there's kids your age, you
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: can do stuff. I see Kyle dribbling a basketball and
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: he's playing one-on-one basketball with his dad. And his mom
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: comes walking out of the house carrying a pitcher of
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: lemonade on a tray with two glasses. And I was like,
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: I ain't never seen no shit like that in my life.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: Like how come he got that? And I got this.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: That's not a useful question, but I asked it, but
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: I needed to learn to ask myself, what am I
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: being prepared for? And it turns out I was being
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: prepared for something really cool, but I had to hang
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: on for a while to know that. So this, this
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: book will teach you how to ask yourself useful questions
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: that put you in alignment with the kind of life
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: you want to lead. And too often, People don't realize
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: they're living a life in alignment of problems specifically because
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: of the way they talk to themselves. And this book
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: will unlock that. This book will help you realize, oh,
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: like how many people wake up trying to avoid problem
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: instead of trying to pursue joy? You know what I mean?
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: So like if you're trying to avoid a problem, that
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: means I always have to pay attention to it to
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: know where it is. And we have this belief that
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: if I can avoid the problem, that I'll ultimately land
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: in joy. But that's not true. That's like me being
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: in Los Angeles, being like, I wanna go to Boston.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: But if I go to the airport and my goal
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: is leave Los Angeles, that doesn't, there's a million places.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: But if I go to the airport and I'm like,
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: I specifically wanna get to Boston, then that dramatically increases
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: the chances that I will arrive in Boston. But how
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: many people wake up every day and they're like, I
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: just wanna leave this. Yeah, but you're not telling the
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: algorithm of life You're not telling the higher power what
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: you want. Like when I go to the airport, I
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: know exactly what I want. Fly me to Boston. When
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: I came here, fly me to LA. When I wake
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: up every day, I'm like, where's the joy? I'm looking
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: for the joy. I don't give a damn about the problem.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: I actually have taught myself I can deal with any problem.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: I can either solve it or endure it, but I'm
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: not worried about problems. I can deal with those. But
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: I want to know where's the joy because that's where
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: I'm flying to. And this book will show you the
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: first question you guys start asking yourself, where am I going?
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: Where do I want to be? And most people live
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: their whole life and never ask them. They just think,
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: if I can figure out where I don't want to be,
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 2: then I'm answering the question. I'm like, no, player, that's not.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: But what happens if someone doesn't know the answer?
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: Oh, you know the answer. Everybody knows. You know the
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: answer because your body tells you the answer. You ever
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: get a phone call and somebody invites you to do
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: something and you were tired before they invited you and
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: now you have mad energy? That's your body telling you
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: that thing. We like that. Whatever that thing is. I
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 2: like cooking. So when I get, so, you know, to
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: let the internet behind the scenes a bit, I didn't
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: respond to your email super fast because I lost a
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 2: member of my team and it made my life very tumultuous.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: So I knew the show and I knew there was food,
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: but I didn't know that I was the one that
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: was going to be like, I chose it. So when
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: I did it in the emails, oh, they need the
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: ingredients of the thing we're going to make. I was excited.
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: And I was excited because I knew in asking me
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: to make my broke meal, I was going to get
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: to tell you about my mom. I was going to
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: get to tell you about Kyle. I was going to
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: tell you about Eric's grandmother. I knew. So that's how
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: I know. I don't know what my life, I don't
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: know the perfect life, but I knew that cooking needs
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: to be a part of my life. Writing needs, I've
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: written six books because I like to write. I learned
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: as a young person, books unlocked your brain. My reality
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: wasn't fun. So I used to go to the library
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: and read. And then I used to write stories just
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: pretending I was the character of that story. So not surprising,
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: I still write. Too many people, you don't do the
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: thing that gives your soul life. And then you wonder,
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: why am I miserable? God asked you or whatever higher
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: power you believe in, God asked you to be an
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: X and you decided to become a Y. You need
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: to just get in alignment with the thing. And you
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: can always find it because it's where do I experience
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: excitement and energy? Because your body will always tell you. Wow.
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: You heard it here, guys. Where can everyone keep up
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: with Elliot Conning?
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: First. If you want the book, go to Amazon, just
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: put in, do a search for Elliot Connie and you
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: will find my book. You guys put up some sort
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: of a graphic that hopefully has appeared several times throughout
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: this conversation. And if you want to follow me, you
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: can go to at Elliot Speaks across all platforms. Just
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: spell my name correctly, two L's and two T's. And
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: if you are a psychotherapist and you want to follow
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: me as a psychotherapist, go to my website, ElliotConnie.com. Awesome.
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for tuning in. Recipe is amazing.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: Peace out, y'all.