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Where does sacredness live? · Life In Flow Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Life In Flow podcast.
0:03
SPEAKER_02: The three of us, Yulia, Polina and Irina, are exploring what Life In Flow and Flow In Life is.
0:12
SPEAKER_01: Join us as we experiment, test our diverse hypotheses and have fun in the process.
0:20
SPEAKER_02: Will we find an answer?
0:23
SPEAKER_02: This isn't just an intellectual discussion.
0:26
SPEAKER_02: We're co-creating a shared field beyond words.
0:30
SPEAKER_02: We're attuning to what emerges moment by moment so that
0:35
SPEAKER_02: the conversation itself becomes a group flow experience.
0:39
SPEAKER_01: And we invite you to become an active participant in this experiment.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: There will be pauses and moments of silence.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: We leave them on purpose because this is where magic happens.
0:54
SPEAKER_00: Go beyond the intellectual information.
0:57
SPEAKER_00: Listen with your whole body.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: and notice how your somatic experience shifts in the process.
1:05
SPEAKER_00: Share with us what reveals itself in the space where mind, body, and energy flow together.
1:15
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Life In Flow podcast episode.
1:21
SPEAKER_02: Today I'm facilitating.
1:22
SPEAKER_02: I'm Polina and I'm joined by my two co-hosts, Yulia and Irina.
1:28
SPEAKER_02: Hi ladies.
1:31
SPEAKER_02: And today we are going to be exploring the topic of transitions and the rituals
1:43
SPEAKER_02: that some of us do or do not implement during transitions and
1:53
SPEAKER_02: the potential importance of rituals actually during transitions
2:00
SPEAKER_02: and more specifically what I want
2:03
SPEAKER_02: to explore today is why do some transitions feel not fully real sometimes
2:12
SPEAKER_02: until they are actually witnessed or marked or ritualized
2:21
SPEAKER_02: for me personally this topic comes up after the recent loss of my dad
2:30
SPEAKER_02: And through that transition of him transitioning out of this lifetime,
2:38
SPEAKER_02: I realized that there's something that I've been kind of playing with
2:43
SPEAKER_02: since my grandpa passed away a year ago.
2:47
SPEAKER_02: But it's something that is new and not very established in my own life in terms
2:56
SPEAKER_02: of concept and practice.
3:00
SPEAKER_02: And that I'm still learning as I engage with it I'm still learning about And that is
3:08
SPEAKER_02: that ceremony And in this case of course the ceremony around funerals and death and
3:16
SPEAKER_02: that passage And the aspect of for example seeing the body
3:26
SPEAKER_02: the family gathering aspect so basically I'm describing the rituals right
3:31
SPEAKER_02: that surround passing they really changed my experience in a way
3:38
SPEAKER_02: that I didn't intellectually foresee and maybe didn't in the past
3:48
SPEAKER_02: when I was younger didn't really have a chance to more consciously engage with
3:55
SPEAKER_02: And it made me start wondering why do humans seem to need some ceremony,
4:02
SPEAKER_02: some ritual around certain transitions in life and why do they need to be witnessed
4:12
SPEAKER_02: through them and how this witnessing aspect plays out through rituals and ceremony
4:24
SPEAKER_02: In order for the experience to feel more real,
4:27
SPEAKER_02: more grounded,
4:29
SPEAKER_02: more accessible for the digestion that needs to happen,
4:37
SPEAKER_02: the transmutation that needs to happen, the
4:43
SPEAKER_02: You know,
4:43
SPEAKER_02: really the new sort of version of you that you will ultimately end up landing
4:51
SPEAKER_02: on once an important person has passed.
5:00
SPEAKER_02: So that's a little bit of the background of what I want to touch on and
5:09
SPEAKER_02: Maybe I'll go into my story about this a little bit later and maybe we just start
5:14
SPEAKER_02: with a game as we usually do but really this game is just like I want to I want
5:20
SPEAKER_02: to get a sense of where the two of you land when you hear the word ritual
5:28
SPEAKER_02: so let's just go in a circle I want to hear what comes up for you somatically
5:33
SPEAKER_02: in your in your body in your energy body if anything
5:37
SPEAKER_02: when you hear the word ritual so we are describing our somatic experience yes okay
5:54
SPEAKER_02: so for me when I hear the word ritual I get a sensation of earth
6:08
SPEAKER_02: Like actual This image And this image of earth And I don't know why
6:15
SPEAKER_02: But like actual earth Like as if you're digging through the dirt And I get visuals
6:23
SPEAKER_02: of I don't know Certain objects or things I've seen in movies But
6:27
SPEAKER_02: the actual sensation in my body Is
6:33
SPEAKER_02: Both this groundedness and also a bit of like a haze around it,
6:40
SPEAKER_02: like a little bit of maybe resistance.
6:55
SPEAKER_00: For me, when I hear Rachel
7:03
SPEAKER_00: There are some visuals and those look like circles of people dancing
7:12
SPEAKER_00: or doing something, but it's the circle.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: And then there is also fire.
7:21
SPEAKER_00: Somehow fire is really a big piece for me.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: And
7:34
SPEAKER_00: I have this sensation of some good heaviness grounded like heaviness
7:45
SPEAKER_00: in my pelvic area closed stomach and it's kind of being
8:04
SPEAKER_00: Attracted or feeling the gravity of the earth also
8:09
SPEAKER_00: the earth is there Thank you Yulia Yulia When I hear
8:24
SPEAKER_01: the word ritual I feel Expansion And the sensation of
8:34
SPEAKER_01: being connected to something that goes beyond the visible and the sensation of magic
8:49
SPEAKER_01: that somatically I think I would describe you know like this feeling
8:55
SPEAKER_01: that we call butterflies in the stomach so these butterflies they
9:03
SPEAKER_01: I feel them in the whole body.
9:07
SPEAKER_01: Or maybe like the sparkling stars that fill me and the air around me.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
9:22
SPEAKER_01: I'm less earthy out of three of us.
9:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's cool.
9:26
SPEAKER_02: In my rituals.
9:27
SPEAKER_02: That's cool.
9:29
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
9:30
SPEAKER_02: And now...
9:31
SPEAKER_02: For the next round, can we engage with the word sacred?
9:41
SPEAKER_02: When I hear the word sacred, my mind has questions that come up.
9:49
SPEAKER_02: I actually feel it, like it's the energy of a question mark.
9:53
SPEAKER_02: And yet, when I tune into the word or just like allow the word to land,
10:02
SPEAKER_02: I start getting the sensation of sort of a longing in my heart area like the energy
10:10
SPEAKER_02: of longing like that kind of pull and also something very guttural
10:18
SPEAKER_02: and significant feeling in my like sacral area some kind of a weight that has like
10:29
SPEAKER_02: the energy of significance to it
10:33
SPEAKER_02: And I was surprised actually when I was preparing for the episode sacred as
10:41
SPEAKER_02: a word came up and at first I was just gonna take it off the plate
10:47
SPEAKER_02: for today's discussion because I don't much like to engage
10:51
SPEAKER_02: with potentially religious connotations
10:56
SPEAKER_02: And yet, you know, because sacred could be very, very much in the religious context.
11:02
SPEAKER_02: And sorry, I'm taking myself out of the somatic experience, but I'm just explaining.
11:08
SPEAKER_02: But when I when I allowed myself to actually tune into the reaction in my body,
11:15
SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh, there's actually an energetic signature
11:20
SPEAKER_02: that is connected to this word, even though I don't want to be connected to this word.
11:25
SPEAKER_02: So yeah,
11:27
SPEAKER_02: so this like longing sensation and this significance,
11:32
SPEAKER_02: like this weight of significance in the sacral area.
11:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think sacred
11:50
SPEAKER_00: It's from spiritual realm more than from religious maybe, in my view.
11:58
SPEAKER_00: When I hear sacred, I am in a space that feels that it's holding me, this space.
12:19
SPEAKER_00: that is I don't need to do anything there.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: I can just be in that space.
12:33
SPEAKER_00: And that space is also it's not a passive space.
12:45
SPEAKER_00: It creates just by
12:48
SPEAKER_00: the virtue of being there there are some transmutations happening and
12:57
SPEAKER_00: although this seems to me or feels to me like a space
13:01
SPEAKER_00: where I don't see anything visual or I don't see any other agents
13:10
SPEAKER_00: or forces co-creating in that space but it feels like it is
13:19
SPEAKER_00: some kind of a node in this web of a lot of beings or creatures or forces
13:31
SPEAKER_00: that have their own agency and then come together in that space and
13:36
SPEAKER_00: yet somehow they um like the whatever happens there it doesn't feel
13:48
SPEAKER_00: forceful it doesn't feel very active yeah there's like no doing involved well we all
14:02
SPEAKER_00: know we can think different things about doing um yeah and then see
14:11
SPEAKER_00: For me the somatic signature takes me also to the heart area
14:17
SPEAKER_00: and just even saying sacred it has this gentle sighing out effect like a wind
14:40
SPEAKER_00: Even actually in my body as I'm saying it,
14:43
SPEAKER_00: there is space created more space than usual in my throat and in my mouth and
14:54
SPEAKER_00: in my voice box.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: I liked it so much when you became exploring the sound of the word sacred I feel
15:19
SPEAKER_01: that for me the somatic experience of sacred is very much similar to
15:25
SPEAKER_01: the ritual probably because most of my rituals are about the connection to
15:34
SPEAKER_01: the sacred space
15:38
SPEAKER_01: So it's mostly about the expansion,
15:41
SPEAKER_01: me becoming bigger than my physical body and all of that space that is me together
15:52
SPEAKER_01: with my environment that goes beyond the visible is filled up
15:56
SPEAKER_01: with these light sparkling butterflies or stars.
16:11
SPEAKER_01: and it feels light but it's really like about the mmm
16:39
SPEAKER_01: Confusing, confusing the perception of reality.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: So it's like I'm sort of sliding in somewhat different reality.
16:57
SPEAKER_01: But if we're talking about somatic experience,
16:59
SPEAKER_01: the sliding into the different realities is best described by what I have described.
17:07
SPEAKER_02: Where is the like the physical in your body area from which you then go
17:17
SPEAKER_02: into this like higher realm is that because you're
17:22
SPEAKER_02: the way you're describing it it seems like it's above you but is
17:25
SPEAKER_01: that there's also no it's not necessarily above me okay
17:32
SPEAKER_01: it might depend on the context sometimes it might be above but
17:40
SPEAKER_01: The sensations that I have been thinking
17:44
SPEAKER_01: of it's more just like it's it's all around me and so the trigger point like
17:51
SPEAKER_01: where it's coming from in the body it might be different it might be coming from
17:56
SPEAKER_01: the like pelvic area or from the heart area it might also coming from like when it's
18:03
SPEAKER_01: the connection to the buff it really goes from the from the head
18:11
SPEAKER_01: But the sensation that I was describing, it's more like surrounding.
18:17
SPEAKER_02: So like in your energy body, is that where you're pointing to?
18:22
SPEAKER_01: That's the thing that what I'm talking about is that about the...
18:29
SPEAKER_01: Confusing the frontiers.
18:34
SPEAKER_01: So there is no talking about my body, whether it's energy body or whatever.
18:41
SPEAKER_01: Because I am connected to the realm around me.
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SPEAKER_01: And we are all filled up with these sparkling...
18:54
SPEAKER_01: energy of sparkling butterflies or stars or whatever.
18:59
SPEAKER_01: It permeates me together with my environment.
19:06
SPEAKER_02: Cool.
19:08
SPEAKER_02: The image I am getting in terms of how we have three described this so far
19:17
SPEAKER_02: and please tell me if I'm off in any way but it seems like for Yulia and me
19:23
SPEAKER_02: the word sacred first creates like an inner experience that then connects out to
19:30
SPEAKER_02: Like the ethers of what sacred is on a bigger scale But for you, Ir,
19:35
SPEAKER_02: it happens right away somewhere more on that,
19:39
SPEAKER_02: like you said,
19:40
SPEAKER_02: that fuzzy area where you're not sure where you end and like the ethers sort
19:48
SPEAKER_02: of begin Did I get that right?
19:54
SPEAKER_01: I'm processing what you're asking What do you mean by ethers?
20:04
SPEAKER_02: the the the the bigger energetic scope right and realm like not just the energetics
20:11
SPEAKER_02: of you whatever is inside the body and like right outside the body but also like
20:16
SPEAKER_02: the larger scope of um the energies which could be the energy here
20:25
SPEAKER_02: which could be energies above right energy below
20:31
SPEAKER_02: Did I get the description of what you were describing right for you and
20:36
SPEAKER_02: the similarities between the two of us?
20:39
SPEAKER_00: Yulia Bogdanova Yeah,
20:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking whether there is a sequence because my main sensation I think it's
20:51
SPEAKER_00: that I am of some space and
21:01
SPEAKER_00: the space that is inside of me it's just another it's just like different levels
21:14
SPEAKER_00: and there isn't a hierarchy necessarily what do you mean by space inside
21:20
SPEAKER_00: of me there is also opening up a space inside of me but the main for me it starts
21:29
SPEAKER_00: with
21:29
SPEAKER_00: this sensation that I am held by something and where are you held by something from
21:42
SPEAKER_02: the outside hold on let hold on let let I want
21:49
SPEAKER_02: to hear what Yulia's actual sensation is see it opens up a space
21:54
SPEAKER_02: and you're feeling held where is the holding like what
21:59
SPEAKER_02: How does that work?
22:13
SPEAKER_00: It's hard to say how holding works.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: It works kind of like when I'm with a tree or in the forest
22:29
SPEAKER_00: and it it holds me and it's the same way it's just um well so you hear
22:37
SPEAKER_02: the word sacred and take me through that so where where when does
22:44
SPEAKER_02: the holding show up sacred the holding opens up immediately like when i say sacred
22:56
SPEAKER_00: and it
22:58
SPEAKER_00: Opens up.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: From the inside out?
23:00
SPEAKER_00: Because that's what I thought.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: Just maybe from the inside out,
23:07
SPEAKER_00: but it doesn't,
23:08
SPEAKER_00: I actually,
23:09
SPEAKER_00: it's hard for me to differentiate and to really follow the exact sequence.
23:15
SPEAKER_00: I could probably think about that, but that just, there is some unfolding of a space.
23:25
SPEAKER_02: And if you were to take a moment and not care that we're here and we're recording
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SPEAKER_02: and you were really to tune in,
23:31
SPEAKER_02: do you think you could give me a little bit more specifics about how that opens up?
23:42
SPEAKER_00: I think it's a process that unfolds just in a couple of directions.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: So there is something coming towards me and there is something that
23:56
SPEAKER_00: is expanding from me towards life okay cool cool okay what
24:05
SPEAKER_02: about you you're you're um tuning
24:08
SPEAKER_02: in right did you land somewhere well um i will repeat what i have already said the
24:23
SPEAKER_01: Specific sequence of how this connection happens might vary depending on the context.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: There might be certain movement from inside out because I need to open up myself to
24:49
SPEAKER_01: the sacred space.
24:51
SPEAKER_01: So there might be some
24:55
SPEAKER_01: The opening from the inside out.
24:57
SPEAKER_02: Can I pause for a sec?
25:00
SPEAKER_02: So the context here is you engaging with the word sacred.
25:05
SPEAKER_02: That is the context.
25:06
SPEAKER_02: So not in some other situations,
25:08
SPEAKER_02: but specifically in this moment in time, as you say sacred, right?
25:12
SPEAKER_02: Or you hear the word sacred.
25:13
SPEAKER_02: What happens for you in the here and now?
25:19
SPEAKER_01: Expansion.
25:21
SPEAKER_02: How does the expansion work?
25:23
SPEAKER_02: Is it just from the outside in or from the inside out?
25:26
SPEAKER_02: Can you describe to me that experience?
25:30
SPEAKER_01: The expansion works like this.
25:34
SPEAKER_01: So it's growing, growing, growing.
25:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it's sort of like opening up and becoming bigger until all
25:44
SPEAKER_01: the frontiers get fused out and...
25:50
SPEAKER_01: Complete connection happens.
25:54
SPEAKER_02: And is there a specific flavor or essence of the energy or the frequency
26:01
SPEAKER_02: as you're specifically engaging with this like sacred, something sacred?
26:07
SPEAKER_02: Is there something specific about the expansion?
26:16
SPEAKER_01: Like the only thing that comes to my mind is not really the somatic description.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: It's what I call the sliding off to the different reality.
26:31
SPEAKER_02: Sliding off to a different reality.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: It's like I'm here, but at the same time I'm not completely here.
26:47
SPEAKER_01: I'm somewhere that goes beyond the visible world Okay Thank you Okay
27:14
SPEAKER_02: How would you each define the word sacred?
27:36
SPEAKER_01: Different from the mundane that something that has
27:43
SPEAKER_01: significance and meaning that is symbolic and
28:08
SPEAKER_01: goes beyond the meanings of ordinary life.
28:19
SPEAKER_00: For me I think it's going to that space and the space maybe outside of time where
28:29
SPEAKER_00: the flow of life and the flow of time is different.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: it's things happen which are nonlinear which are emergent that are not to be easily
29:05
SPEAKER_00: or maybe not to be
29:11
SPEAKER_00: like forecasted it's almost like a black hole there is range of course
29:27
SPEAKER_00: but sacred space could become a black hole
29:35
SPEAKER_02: Okay you brought up a few things and just to keep us on track
29:42
SPEAKER_02: for what I was imagining today you did bring up flow which was one of the questions
29:48
SPEAKER_02: that I was going to bring up and then
29:50
SPEAKER_02: the black hole aspect very interesting maybe we will mark it for a later discussion
29:59
SPEAKER_02: but
30:03
SPEAKER_02: When I was engaging with what is sacred and I was doing a bit of research
30:07
SPEAKER_02: to help myself locate myself around this topic flow did actually come
30:14
SPEAKER_02: into my consciousness because a lot of the aspects
30:17
SPEAKER_02: of what is sacred actually felt like a flow state in a lot of ways and I really had
30:24
SPEAKER_02: to try to
30:27
SPEAKER_02: Capture the very nuanced distinctions between flow and sacred.
30:37
SPEAKER_02: Can both of you reflect on how does that land for you?
30:43
SPEAKER_02: What comes up when you consider the nuances between flow states and the state
30:48
SPEAKER_02: of something being sacred?
30:50
SPEAKER_02: Are you engaging with something sacred?
30:55
SPEAKER_02: Yulia, you already started,
30:56
SPEAKER_02: but can you maybe nail down some of the nuances that make the two different?
31:04
SPEAKER_02: What takes something from a flow state into this sacred state?
31:18
SPEAKER_00: I think it's the intention to
31:25
SPEAKER_00: Divorce yourself from waking state concepts or goals.
31:41
SPEAKER_00: Flow state, of course, can also...
31:43
SPEAKER_00: I mean, can it happen without...
31:47
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it can happen without a goal.
31:57
SPEAKER_00: but it's it's as if that time itself or some you know some dimension of
32:10
SPEAKER_00: the space are there to really help you with the flow yeah it's I mean it's hard
32:19
SPEAKER_00: to really down but there is something definitely there is something
32:25
SPEAKER_00: Extra there is another flavor to sacred and I think sacred inhabits maybe
32:42
SPEAKER_00: a wider range than what we imagine by flow if we mean the flow in the moment like
32:50
SPEAKER_00: when you lose time and um
32:58
SPEAKER_00: I think sacred can have this strange that it can send you deep into the underworld
33:05
SPEAKER_00: or maybe high into the spirit realm and for me flow state is more staying in
33:20
SPEAKER_00: the middle earth maybe?
33:23
SPEAKER_00: Or what is it like?
33:26
SPEAKER_01: What is middle earth?
33:32
SPEAKER_00: what is between underworld and the upper world okay okay how
33:43
SPEAKER_00: about you i think both are trans states so that is
33:49
SPEAKER_01: the connection definitely i think not any
33:57
SPEAKER_01: Flow state or like any process in the flow state will be sacred.
34:04
SPEAKER_01: Just the first thing that came to my mind was the situation that we discussed in one
34:11
SPEAKER_01: of our first episodes when I was cooking,
34:16
SPEAKER_01: which is one of my brightest experiences of being in flow.
34:23
SPEAKER_01: but I wouldn't say that there was anything sacred about that that was
34:28
SPEAKER_01: an amazing experience but it wasn't sacred but at the same time I think I would say
34:42
SPEAKER_01: that any process in the state of sacredness would be flow
34:58
SPEAKER_01: At least from my experience there are a lot of these criteria that we use
35:06
SPEAKER_01: to describe the flow state that would be present there like the sensation
35:13
SPEAKER_01: of oneness,
35:14
SPEAKER_01: the distortion of time like Yulia mentioned the different way
35:24
SPEAKER_01: of really evaluating things
35:29
SPEAKER_01: How you receive feedback from the environment is very different
35:34
SPEAKER_01: from our executive network in the mundane state I would also say that, again,
35:47
SPEAKER_01: going back to our first episodes and to the distinction between flow in life
35:55
SPEAKER_01: and life and flow
35:57
SPEAKER_01: I think to be able to live in flow with life one needs to get in touch
36:10
SPEAKER_01: with sacredness of life because to attribute the agency to the life itself and to
36:20
SPEAKER_01: the world one needs to attribute this
36:29
SPEAKER_01: Significance and meaning to everything in the experience that goes beyond
36:34
SPEAKER_01: the ordinary, beyond the mundane.
36:38
SPEAKER_01: And for me this is what makes things sacred.
36:58
SPEAKER_02: So I guess we're purporting that you can be in a flow state without the aspect
37:08
SPEAKER_02: of sacredness but say if you're in if you're experiencing or engaging
37:12
SPEAKER_02: with something sacred most likely you're also in flow like flow is part of
37:20
SPEAKER_01: the experience I think yes I would say so
37:39
SPEAKER_00: I'm not quite sure that flow would always be there.
37:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm just trying to touch on some of the diverse experiences of sacredness.
37:55
SPEAKER_00: And one that comes to mind for me
37:58
SPEAKER_00: where i'm not sure there is flow is from lately
38:03
SPEAKER_00: for me i have this i've developed this um i would say sacred relationship with
38:11
SPEAKER_00: the moon it started uh during this um that started i think a long time ago
38:18
SPEAKER_00: but now it's at the point where i
38:26
SPEAKER_00: I do feel very different when I am I have enough space to focus on that experience
38:37
SPEAKER_00: on experiencing and taking really fully into my awareness the moon and that when
38:45
SPEAKER_00: the moon was getting fuller and fuller recently I was sleeping
38:50
SPEAKER_00: on my balcony every night for a week commuting with the moon
38:59
SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure I was in flow.
39:02
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the sense of awe was there.
39:07
SPEAKER_00: Something very special about flow?
39:16
SPEAKER_00: But not really flow for me.
39:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:23
SPEAKER_00: But, you know, like a lot of...
39:26
SPEAKER_00: Sacred experiences, for example, involving ritual.
39:30
SPEAKER_00: Now I'm thinking about my experience with rituals that are happening in a sacred place.
39:39
SPEAKER_00: Those, they feel like early transit states.
39:43
SPEAKER_00: So now I'm thinking maybe filling sacred space with the ritual
39:57
SPEAKER_00: does something very transient definitely.
40:05
SPEAKER_02: So now you're bringing up another aspect.
40:08
SPEAKER_02: We could talk about whether sacred spaces are necessary for like a sacred ritual or
40:16
SPEAKER_02: for that experience of something sacred.
40:19
SPEAKER_02: Does that require some kind of special sacred place or space?
40:33
SPEAKER_02: Also, when I tune into the state of flow, like flow states, right?
40:40
SPEAKER_02: It feels like yes, you are engaging with an experience in a very expansive, full way
40:49
SPEAKER_02: And your kind of attention becomes more effortless So it's more of like almost
40:58
SPEAKER_02: a zooming out in some ways But
41:01
SPEAKER_02: whereas something sacred feels like something deeply significant So yes,
41:11
SPEAKER_02: there's still like this altered state and an altered sense of time
41:17
SPEAKER_02: but your attention is not just effortless it's actually a lot more intentional
41:23
SPEAKER_02: so there's like a zooming in aspect that's part of the sacred experience when I
41:31
SPEAKER_02: when I engage with it so there's it is a sort of a flow state but there's
41:37
SPEAKER_02: a different internal lens on in in the sacred experience
41:47
SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense how I'm describing it?
41:52
SPEAKER_02: There's something about meaning that comes up.
41:55
SPEAKER_02: There's a depth.
42:11
SPEAKER_02: There's still the aspects of flow states but then there's like a depth and
42:16
SPEAKER_02: a even like a maybe a weight of significance and meaning and then like
42:21
SPEAKER_02: a more way more intentional rather yes there's like an effortless outer experience
42:29
SPEAKER_02: but there's an intentionality that's like more of a zoomed in and that just zoomed
42:36
SPEAKER_02: in into me but like there's also zoomed out into
42:39
SPEAKER_02: like in the collective what something sacred resonates with why can't we have
42:50
SPEAKER_01: an intentionality in flow we can but when it's something sacred
43:04
SPEAKER_02: Doesn't it like tune into something sacred versus something that you're doing like
43:09
SPEAKER_02: for performance or creativity or you know,
43:12
SPEAKER_02: like a project you're in versus what are we tuning into when we're opening up into
43:20
SPEAKER_02: or we're experiencing sacredness?
43:31
SPEAKER_01: What's that smile about?
43:34
SPEAKER_01: No, you just started talking about the way I perceived it.
43:42
SPEAKER_01: Now I'm thinking that maybe I understood it wrong because I don't remember already
43:46
SPEAKER_01: the exact words that you used but you started like when we're doing the projects and
43:52
SPEAKER_01: when we're like I perceived that as a creative process and you were speaking to
43:56
SPEAKER_01: the person who treats the creative process as a sacred process
44:01
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so that's a cool distinction.
44:03
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so for you,
44:08
SPEAKER_02: for you,
44:09
SPEAKER_02: okay, actually, so I started the episode talking about the passing of my dad, right?
44:15
SPEAKER_02: So if the two of you don't mind,
44:19
SPEAKER_02: if you've had experience with, you know, someone in the core family unit passing, so
44:28
SPEAKER_02: Was there something sacred about that experience and if there was is would
44:37
SPEAKER_02: that be something that's different energetically somatically that's that
44:41
SPEAKER_02: the sacredness of those rituals that those ceremonies that potentially are part of
44:45
SPEAKER_02: that experience versus like this creative sacredness here that you're talking about
45:04
SPEAKER_00: in those very different fields right if we're talking about ritual and sacredness
45:13
SPEAKER_00: that about a space well i perceive it as a space then
45:19
SPEAKER_00: that space i think is contributed to by other spaces and to me it's what
45:31
SPEAKER_00: we already talked about this Morphic Fields by Rupert Sheldrake and it's as if you
45:44
SPEAKER_00: a doorway is opening into one of those morphic fields
45:54
SPEAKER_00: that holds collective information and maybe
46:00
SPEAKER_00: ancestral or like lots of different levels of information and the effect
46:10
SPEAKER_00: to me is can be drastically different.
46:16
SPEAKER_00: Well, first of all, I would even go as far as to say that even like with death,
46:32
SPEAKER_00: Now I find that sometimes the experience is more of a mundane one or at least not
46:43
SPEAKER_00: as deep as sacred.
46:47
SPEAKER_00: Just it's because it's coming from waking consciousness and because people
46:53
SPEAKER_00: who are organizing it are more tending to the practicalities and it
47:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm not generalizing, but I think it's something that at least it has lost in depth.
47:11
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, for me, I vividly remember a burial of my grandmother.
47:19
SPEAKER_00: It was when I was nine, I think, eight, nine.
47:26
SPEAKER_00: And there were women there who came and they were
47:31
SPEAKER_00: like weeping the whole night and the casket was there and there was so much there
47:41
SPEAKER_00: that was tending to that space and organizing that space
47:46
SPEAKER_00: and maybe also containing whatever was however that space was connecting to
47:51
SPEAKER_00: the morphic field that was more like the people that were there were as if also
48:00
SPEAKER_00: hold and tended somehow to that to that field but also
48:06
SPEAKER_00: in their collective experience they felt to me there is there was like this cohesion
48:15
SPEAKER_00: of that that felt really strange yeah and
48:30
SPEAKER_00: and I think it's for me that is like the fabric of it like you create
48:41
SPEAKER_00: that sacredness also through tending to the space at this like levels of objects
48:54
SPEAKER_00: or organizing the space or like
49:00
SPEAKER_00: assigning roles to different people and so it's all together like a language or
49:09
SPEAKER_00: a pass to that door of the morphic field but of course when we're talking about well
49:20
SPEAKER_00: that is just about nothing but in creativity it's
49:27
SPEAKER_00: I think it's probably if there is a group group group event then that space
49:41
SPEAKER_00: and how it's organized and how it's tended to it's also like a big factor
49:49
SPEAKER_00: but maybe it's not as critical it's as
49:54
SPEAKER_00: if the morphic field of creativity is more forgiving somehow or maybe easier to deal
50:04
SPEAKER_00: with to get in and out It also depends
50:11
SPEAKER_01: because I don't remember we I have mentioned this experience once but I don't know
50:20
SPEAKER_01: if we mentioned it in one of the episodes
50:25
SPEAKER_01: I remembered just when you were talking about the forgiving morphic field
50:31
SPEAKER_01: of creativity I used to participate in a theater group and I was attending
50:41
SPEAKER_01: a rehearsal which I was not a part of so I was just sitting there in the like in the
50:51
SPEAKER_01: Viewers part of the of the whole and doing my homework I was in the university
50:57
SPEAKER_01: and one girl came up to me
50:59
SPEAKER_01: and say like you're doing it all wrong you're not supposed to do
51:02
SPEAKER_01: that your attention is supposed to be on what is happening on the stage because
51:07
SPEAKER_01: because
51:08
SPEAKER_01: If your attention is not there but you're still here you're disrupting
51:12
SPEAKER_01: the whole group flow and she was giving me the example which I was not able
51:18
SPEAKER_01: to understand at that moment when she was supposed to like during the rehearsal
51:27
SPEAKER_01: when they were rehearsing a scene and she was supposed to hit like
51:32
SPEAKER_01: The musical instrument,
51:34
SPEAKER_01: you know,
51:34
SPEAKER_01: like when you hit it and it's like a gong,
51:36
SPEAKER_01: but not a gong, but let's say that she was supposed to play a gong.
51:42
SPEAKER_01: And so the problem was that every time when she was touching the thing,
51:48
SPEAKER_01: the director was extremely unhappy by the way she was doing it.
51:54
SPEAKER_01: Because unless she was treating this like small
51:59
SPEAKER_01: Supposedly insignificant movement as totally sacred action the whole thing
52:07
SPEAKER_01: the whole scene did not work out so it's not necessarily forgiving
52:20
SPEAKER_01: if you're not treating it as sacred enough yeah no that
52:25
SPEAKER_00: that totally resonates totally resonates yeah
52:29
SPEAKER_00: And I'm now thinking about my vision quest in the desert and some of
52:35
SPEAKER_00: the things we did there,
52:37
SPEAKER_00: for example,
52:40
SPEAKER_00: a fire ceremony,
52:42
SPEAKER_00: a dancing ceremony where, I mean, everything was, everything was sacred.
52:52
SPEAKER_00: And in one of them, there was someone who
53:01
SPEAKER_00: I think probably the others could tell that was like not buying it
53:05
SPEAKER_00: or not treating it as sacred
53:08
SPEAKER_00: and it was just really felt how it was like this disrupting the fabric of
53:24
SPEAKER_00: the experience
53:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think sacredness is coming from exactly from the significance
53:39
SPEAKER_01: and meaning you attribute to all elements of the experience and what came
53:48
SPEAKER_01: to me talking about the comparison between flow and sacredness
54:01
SPEAKER_01: So I might adjust somewhat what I said previously because well I was reflecting
54:07
SPEAKER_01: on these experiences of rituals related to death I'm
54:21
SPEAKER_01: I think in terms of this sacredness
54:24
SPEAKER_01: from my own personal experience what I can connect mostly is just this action
54:34
SPEAKER_01: of honoring the dead in whatever context this is when I really can connect
54:41
SPEAKER_01: to this sacred space of
54:51
SPEAKER_01: Death let's say and so what came to my mind is that it is true
54:58
SPEAKER_01: that there are moments then we probably can't talk about flow
55:05
SPEAKER_01: because there is no actually process there is only like the moment the state
55:14
SPEAKER_01: But still it takes me back to that distinction between flow state and life in flow
55:25
SPEAKER_01: because I think when we are opening up to this deeper significance and meaning
55:32
SPEAKER_01: of our experience we are opening up to the possibility of connecting to the flow
55:40
SPEAKER_01: of life
55:42
SPEAKER_01: Because we're opening up to this like other significances of meaning
55:47
SPEAKER_01: of any experience and hence we're opening up to something that may guide us
55:54
SPEAKER_01: to something that goes beyond us we can interconnect with and weave our experience
56:01
SPEAKER_01: with
56:07
SPEAKER_02: Yes, that's actually the way you just described it,
56:11
SPEAKER_02: that sequence that you just pointed to is how I would describe my relationship
56:23
SPEAKER_02: or my interaction with this sacred aspect and my dad's passing,
56:31
SPEAKER_02: my grandpa's passing, the family gathering, what Yulia was describing, like these
56:37
SPEAKER_02: um more logistical aspects more you know uh middle earth aspects of of things
56:46
SPEAKER_02: that need to be um tended to regarded uh organized right like so the practicalities
56:58
SPEAKER_02: which if they're not
57:01
SPEAKER_02: Treated with this more meaningful tuned in lens right like the sacredness
57:08
SPEAKER_02: of what you're doing then it just becomes an empty ritual sort
57:14
SPEAKER_02: of that's like those are the things I was engaging with like the
57:18
SPEAKER_02: Oh this could be an empty ritual or this could be
57:21
SPEAKER_02: a very meaningful significant sacred ritual so that made me feel like oh
57:28
SPEAKER_02: so something that's ritualized can actually be different depending on the energy
57:34
SPEAKER_02: the attention infused into that ritual right also
57:42
SPEAKER_02: What I was tuning into that felt sacred to me and and I really was engaging
57:47
SPEAKER_02: with maybe for some of like the first times in my life didn't feel like it was from
57:53
SPEAKER_02: the inside out it actually felt like from the outside
57:56
SPEAKER_02: in like almost like this morphic door morphic field door opened you would write
58:01
SPEAKER_02: because of the event that happened and I started connecting to energies
58:07
SPEAKER_02: um that I I didn't necessarily recognize as something I came to consciously
58:13
SPEAKER_02: on my own like it was me picking it up from the field and engaging with it for
58:18
SPEAKER_02: the first time and starting to see things and understand things from
58:22
SPEAKER_02: a different perspective um
58:28
SPEAKER_02: And also like that longing that I described to you when I connect to
58:33
SPEAKER_02: the word sacred,
58:34
SPEAKER_02: there is a longing and I'm not quite sure what the longing is about,
58:41
SPEAKER_02: but it feels to me like it's a longing
58:45
SPEAKER_02: like almost from the field and my connection to the field to be more intentional
58:52
SPEAKER_02: and like have that infusion of sacredness and like real meaning and attention in
58:59
SPEAKER_02: in some of these really big trans transitional transformational like passages right
59:04
SPEAKER_02: that where we go through um
59:10
SPEAKER_02: And then there's that sense of like the life and flow, which is what you're talking about.
59:15
SPEAKER_02: There's almost that is a doorway to that life and flow.
59:20
SPEAKER_02: Um,
59:29
SPEAKER_02: I actually also ended up having like an a b test not intentionally but just
59:34
SPEAKER_02: the way life turned out with my grandpa when he passed I went to New York I went to
59:39
SPEAKER_02: the funeral so I actually physically was there I was physically in the midst
59:43
SPEAKER_02: of this ritual the ceremony with
59:46
SPEAKER_02: the family around physically seeing my grandpa's you know body in the casket and
59:57
SPEAKER_02: Then with my dad's passing unfortunately I wasn't physically able to make it
1:00:01
SPEAKER_02: to New York but I you know my aunt called me and put me on FaceTime and
1:00:07
SPEAKER_02: and showed me part of the ceremony and also showed me my dad in in the casket
1:00:13
SPEAKER_02: and surprisingly the
1:00:20
SPEAKER_02: Like I didn't need to physically be present to experience some of the shifts and
1:00:25
SPEAKER_02: the transformations that I experienced with my grandpa when I was physically there.
1:00:29
SPEAKER_02: They actually still happened with my dad because I was visually able to see his body
1:00:36
SPEAKER_02: in the casket.
1:00:37
SPEAKER_02: It allowed me
1:00:39
SPEAKER_02: to kind of transition into the acceptance and to the sort of piece around the fact
1:00:45
SPEAKER_02: that okay he's not in the body anymore like visually seeing
1:00:48
SPEAKER_02: the body was was very necessary for for my system to go into the next phase
1:00:57
SPEAKER_02: of like this whole transitionary like sequence of things right that happen during
1:01:03
SPEAKER_02: the grief process and
1:01:11
SPEAKER_02: And I also was wondering whether some of the big like very fast
1:01:19
SPEAKER_02: and big transformations that happened during the process I wondered whether one of
1:01:24
SPEAKER_02: the reasons why they were available to me in this way was
1:01:28
SPEAKER_02: because I wasn't physically there to be part of the like the practicalities of
1:01:34
SPEAKER_02: the thing that could very easily
1:01:39
SPEAKER_02: If it's not treated in the very sacred manner could very easily distract the person
1:01:44
SPEAKER_02: from the natural process of the energetics and when you seem to be digested
1:01:49
SPEAKER_02: and processed and like felt.
1:01:53
SPEAKER_02: because I very much was distracted I think with my grandpa's ceremony with all
1:01:59
SPEAKER_02: the physicalities and the family present you know being present and all of
1:02:03
SPEAKER_02: the different dynamics between family members like all of those things whereas
1:02:07
SPEAKER_02: with my dad I didn't have to be part of that aspect of the experience
1:02:12
SPEAKER_02: and I really was actually scared
1:02:13
SPEAKER_02: that oh my gosh me not being there physically I will lose
1:02:18
SPEAKER_02: an aspect of like the family going through it together,
1:02:21
SPEAKER_02: you know, the physical aspect of being together going through this process.
1:02:24
SPEAKER_02: And yet,
1:02:26
SPEAKER_02: I still feel like the most important aspect is not being present together
1:02:32
SPEAKER_02: and doing it together.
1:02:33
SPEAKER_02: Yes, those are nice things like they could potentially could be helpful.
1:02:37
SPEAKER_02: But what was most important is, is there the ability to
1:02:45
SPEAKER_02: like fully tune in like have that kind of flow aspect into the sacredness
1:02:52
SPEAKER_02: of what is happening and the sacredness of the body in
1:03:00
SPEAKER_02: the casket like I never I've never had to engage with these concepts until
1:03:05
SPEAKER_02: the door opened and like came to me
1:03:09
SPEAKER_02: And I didn't need to do anything special on that day.
1:03:12
SPEAKER_02: I just needed to allow myself to engage with the energetics of that, if that makes sense.
1:03:18
SPEAKER_02: Like I didn't need to have a special outfit on.
1:03:20
SPEAKER_02: I didn't need to be in a special space.
1:03:23
SPEAKER_02: I didn't need to be with the family members.
1:03:25
SPEAKER_02: I just needed to open up to what already exists in the morphic field,
1:03:32
SPEAKER_02: which is like this human thing about ceremonies and rituals and sacredness.
1:03:37
SPEAKER_02: It's already in the field.
1:03:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah I would even say that if we are talking about ceremonies related to death
1:03:57
SPEAKER_00: then I mean like it's one of the conditions almost for it to be viewed
1:04:07
SPEAKER_00: as sacred I think it's
1:04:12
SPEAKER_00: holding some cosmological view that life is not just but it just doesn't just end
1:04:23
SPEAKER_00: with the death of someone and that is maybe like my experience of the other cases
1:04:38
SPEAKER_00: and one of them very close
1:04:43
SPEAKER_00: someone very close it's just the sacredness actually wasn't there
1:04:52
SPEAKER_00: the sacredness was not there and when the sacredness is not there it's like a space
1:04:59
SPEAKER_00: because people humans have navigated this for a long time and it's
1:05:04
SPEAKER_00: a you know like one of the most important thresholds that we pass right we get born
1:05:10
SPEAKER_00: and we die and
1:05:13
SPEAKER_00: So there is a lot of feels like there's a lot of wisdom and or maybe like protocols
1:05:23
SPEAKER_00: that are available if you connect to the morphic field that I would say hold it
1:05:32
SPEAKER_00: and maybe hold hold people who lose someone very dear to them
1:05:42
SPEAKER_00: and so they don't just fall into the precipice but it's that sacredness
1:05:52
SPEAKER_00: that creates this very powerful container so that who doesn't fall into
1:06:00
SPEAKER_02: the precipice you the person going through the loss or the person that was
1:06:04
SPEAKER_02: the person who is going through the loss uh-huh and what do you what's the precipice
1:06:10
SPEAKER_02: for that person
1:06:13
SPEAKER_02: the grief the loss grief so they don't fall into the precipice or so
1:06:20
SPEAKER_00: that can you clarify that piece yeah yeah I mean exactly that's what you do
1:06:27
SPEAKER_00: if you lose someone you easily fall into the precipice and
1:06:32
SPEAKER_00: when something bigger is available it's something that holds you
1:06:38
SPEAKER_02: Ah, so you don't fall into the grief as in like off a cliff,
1:06:42
SPEAKER_02: but you're actually held through it so that the experience
1:06:45
SPEAKER_02: of grief can be different.
1:06:46
SPEAKER_02: Is that what you mean?
1:06:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:06:48
SPEAKER_02: Ah, thank you.
1:07:04
SPEAKER_02: Here, did you want to share something?
1:07:09
SPEAKER_02: So when I was thinking about, again,
1:07:12
SPEAKER_02: sacredness, flow,
1:07:14
SPEAKER_02: the ceremonies and rituals around death,
1:07:20
SPEAKER_02: I was wondering if maybe sacredness begins when flow becomes meaningful beyond
1:07:27
SPEAKER_02: the self and also...
1:07:32
SPEAKER_02: One of those morphic doors into way more that is available is opened.
1:07:38
SPEAKER_02: Into something very meaningful.
1:07:43
SPEAKER_02: How does that land for you, that thread?
1:07:57
SPEAKER_00: Somehow I have resistance to have flow there.
1:08:01
SPEAKER_00: Something like an altered state feels more passing to this occasion.
1:08:10
SPEAKER_02: Because you feel like flow in an altered state would be two different phenomena?
1:08:19
SPEAKER_00: Not all altered states are flow.
1:08:23
SPEAKER_00: I would just argue that there are different altered states.
1:08:31
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
1:08:34
SPEAKER_02: Can we reflect on what we have discussed so far on this topic?
1:08:41
SPEAKER_02: What feels resonant?
1:08:44
SPEAKER_02: What feels like maybe can be useful to unpack in another episode?
1:08:52
SPEAKER_02: I would love an actual reflection from each of you of everything we've done thus far.
1:08:58
SPEAKER_02: It'll help me identify where we all individually are and also clarify where I am
1:09:06
SPEAKER_02: because I'm feeling a little bit floaty and
1:09:09
SPEAKER_02: a little bit like there are all these doors open and I'm not sure if
1:09:19
SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure how well we did with
1:09:23
SPEAKER_02: at least following one significant thread throughout the episode so far.
1:09:27
SPEAKER_02: Can you help me reflect on that?
1:09:34
SPEAKER_01: I'm still not sure that I totally agree with Yulia's distinction between that, not between,
1:09:46
SPEAKER_01: I don't know how to describe it but what we have just mentioned that sacred space or
1:09:54
SPEAKER_01: a sacred action whatever whatever sacred is not necessarily so it requires
1:10:00
SPEAKER_01: an altered state but it's not necessarily flow I'm just like I'm thinking okay
1:10:07
SPEAKER_01: that would require more observation from my part like of my experiences to think
1:10:14
SPEAKER_01: about that
1:10:16
SPEAKER_01: I sort of I'm not sure that I agree with that but so
1:10:27
SPEAKER_01: that that's just requires more observation and your last statement something
1:10:40
SPEAKER_01: that you said about that
1:10:46
SPEAKER_01: I don't remember already so like what was the sequence whether you said
1:10:51
SPEAKER_01: that you like the connection to the morphic field provides the access to sacredness
1:10:59
SPEAKER_01: or the other way around but somehow this yeah please that sacredness begins once
1:11:08
SPEAKER_02: the flow the flow state or the flow experience becomes meaningful
1:11:15
SPEAKER_02: beyond like something we would usually associate with performance right
1:11:21
SPEAKER_02: or creativity but it becomes a lot more meaningful in terms of the significance
1:11:29
SPEAKER_02: whether it's like internal significance and meaning or like significance beyond
1:11:33
SPEAKER_02: the self and then there's this also opening into a morphic field that also resonates
1:11:39
SPEAKER_02: and holds a lot more energetics for that sacredness
1:11:44
SPEAKER_01: So there is something here that I think for me also requires more reflection
1:11:52
SPEAKER_01: and more observation from my part.
1:11:55
SPEAKER_01: So there is something interesting here.
1:11:58
SPEAKER_01: I was just thinking about my own experiences of sacredness and
1:12:12
SPEAKER_01: My first reaction was, I don't know if I needed this connection to the morphic field.
1:12:18
SPEAKER_01: I just knew it from the beginning.
1:12:22
SPEAKER_01: I knew what this sacred state was.
1:12:27
SPEAKER_01: And then I thought, okay, but how did I know that?
1:12:35
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, I think there is something here.
1:12:39
SPEAKER_01: We might not be aware of it,
1:12:42
SPEAKER_01: but we probably are connected to some kind of morphic field that allows us
1:12:52
SPEAKER_01: to shift out of the mundane perception of the reality and
1:12:57
SPEAKER_01: to find these deeper meanings, deeper significance of the experience.
1:13:06
SPEAKER_01: So I totally agree with the first part,
1:13:08
SPEAKER_01: that the sacredness comes from the attributing the new meaning and the significance
1:13:19
SPEAKER_01: to what is going on.
1:13:25
SPEAKER_01: So this morphic field part requires more investigation and reflection from my part.
1:13:35
SPEAKER_02: For me it really sounds true because my family is not religious and my family is not
1:13:41
SPEAKER_02: into rituals specifically other than like the the normal aspects ceremonial aspects
1:13:46
SPEAKER_02: of like what do you do when someone dies right but there isn't really an emphasis
1:13:51
SPEAKER_02: on like the sacred aspect of any of those things other than
1:13:59
SPEAKER_02: of course everyone's grieving and everyone's processing how they feel
1:14:02
SPEAKER_02: and what does this mean but again
1:14:05
SPEAKER_02: There wasn't something I could tune into that would be more available on
1:14:09
SPEAKER_02: the physical level with my family members or like the way we do things
1:14:14
SPEAKER_02: so this experience was really be like it felt like I was accessing something
1:14:22
SPEAKER_02: beyond me and my family and it felt very significant and big and powerful
1:14:29
SPEAKER_02: and this longing was there that I didn't even quite recognize
1:14:33
SPEAKER_02: because again I wasn't raised that way
1:14:35
SPEAKER_02: um so then I was like okay what am I picking up on that's even beyond all
1:14:42
SPEAKER_02: of us going through this experience and but also this door wasn't available before
1:14:48
SPEAKER_02: to me it only became available when my grandpa died last year
1:14:54
SPEAKER_02: and it wasn't even fully open because I didn't have the same experience
1:15:01
SPEAKER_02: that I just had with dad so it was more like
1:15:05
SPEAKER_02: The door got kind of cracked open a little bit and then when I actually went to
1:15:14
SPEAKER_02: the casket and I touched my grandpa's hand which you know certain parts
1:15:19
SPEAKER_02: of me were like oh my god Polina what are you doing but then there was another part
1:15:23
SPEAKER_02: that was like no I need to do this and I touched his hand and of course I could tell
1:15:29
SPEAKER_02: that he's no longer in the body but I had an experience of
1:15:35
SPEAKER_02: like this transmission or like my cells really feeling his cells like even just
1:15:44
SPEAKER_02: the physical human animal body and really feeling like oh I'm really of him he's
1:15:52
SPEAKER_02: in me like he's actually in my genetics in my DNA in my cells and it was
1:15:57
SPEAKER_02: a very transformative kind of experience and I started from that point
1:16:02
SPEAKER_02: on actually feeling
1:16:04
SPEAKER_02: Like what aspects of me are grandpa and it was like all of this really beautiful
1:16:11
SPEAKER_02: and weird you know threads coming alive or coming in I don't even know what
1:16:16
SPEAKER_02: the direction was it was like or all of it at the same time
1:16:22
SPEAKER_02: And then also just being there and seeing how well the family is transitioning together.
1:16:28
SPEAKER_02: This is like a very significant,
1:16:29
SPEAKER_02: it felt significant in a way that I didn't really necessarily touch before.
1:16:33
SPEAKER_02: So by the time I got to dad,
1:16:36
SPEAKER_02: the door was already way more open because there were already things happening.
1:16:40
SPEAKER_02: And then,
1:16:40
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:16:41
SPEAKER_02: I started getting access to even more again,
1:16:43
SPEAKER_02: completely outside of the logistical reality that is available to me.
1:16:52
SPEAKER_02: and this whole sacredness aspect energetically feels like elevated to a degree
1:17:03
SPEAKER_02: that is just not in my physical experience so that I know it's this is not mine
1:17:08
SPEAKER_02: in this lifetime it's something else beyond it
1:17:13
SPEAKER_02: and I even was like oh I even understand why for example in
1:17:17
SPEAKER_02: the Jewish tradition they said Shiva for seven days
1:17:22
SPEAKER_02: And the person who loses the family member is not the one that's organizing everything.
1:17:26
SPEAKER_02: Like the family members come together and they help with all of that so
1:17:29
SPEAKER_02: the person can actually stay in the experience.
1:17:32
SPEAKER_02: And this was the first time that I was like, wow,
1:17:35
SPEAKER_02: I wish I actually was sitting Shiva for seven days,
1:17:39
SPEAKER_02: even though I wasn't physically there, but still so that life could just stop.
1:17:43
SPEAKER_02: and I could just really give my focus and attention just to the meaning and
1:17:51
SPEAKER_02: the sacredness of this transition that I really felt like I was going through and
1:17:56
SPEAKER_02: that not everyone on
1:17:58
SPEAKER_02: the outside world even understood even my partner thought like three days later
1:18:03
SPEAKER_02: there was a part of him that thought well alright it's over like you know
1:18:08
SPEAKER_02: the funeral happened you cried for a few days
1:18:12
SPEAKER_02: Are we back to normal?
1:18:13
SPEAKER_02: You know,
1:18:14
SPEAKER_02: and I almost wish that there would be like a ritual and a ceremony
1:18:17
SPEAKER_02: that would instruct him to know,
1:18:20
SPEAKER_02: well, no, I'm still like fully giving my attention to this.
1:18:23
SPEAKER_02: We're not back to normal life yet.
1:18:27
SPEAKER_02: So these new threads are coming into my consciousness
1:18:31
SPEAKER_02: about how important like rituals and ceremonies could be and not because of like
1:18:37
SPEAKER_02: the specific outfit of it but because of how it could hold and facilitate
1:18:43
SPEAKER_02: the experience of what is really truly meaningful and significant and like
1:18:48
SPEAKER_02: that connection to like something bigger and higher Well yeah and as you
1:18:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, don't forget about underworld.
1:19:04
SPEAKER_01: Meaning?
1:19:08
SPEAKER_01: You said that higher and lower because the significance and meaning may come from
1:19:17
SPEAKER_01: the things that feel darker and heavier from the underworld,
1:19:23
SPEAKER_01: not necessarily from the highest fears.
1:19:32
SPEAKER_00: that's an interesting thought yeah go ahead you you can also argue
1:19:36
SPEAKER_00: that every transition or not like you cannot argue but there is the definition
1:19:42
SPEAKER_00: that every transition is about death yes and so as a death it holds
1:19:55
SPEAKER_00: a very special connection to the underworld
1:20:02
SPEAKER_00: I just in somehow in my reality in my field it's much more going down
1:20:11
SPEAKER_02: than going up that's so interesting because in the beginning when we're engaging
1:20:20
SPEAKER_02: with those words right I also had a more of a downward more heavy like sensation
1:20:26
SPEAKER_02: about the words but then as we
1:20:29
SPEAKER_02: went into this last part of the conversation.
1:20:33
SPEAKER_02: It really feels like it's an up thing.
1:20:35
SPEAKER_02: Like the doors, the sacredness, it was like more of an up thing.
1:20:41
SPEAKER_02: So I'm going to need to tune into this myself to see where's the connection point?
1:20:50
SPEAKER_02: Why did I feel it more down in the beginning and then really went up when I got into
1:20:56
SPEAKER_02: the actual story of it?
1:20:59
SPEAKER_00: But it's also a journey, right?
1:21:01
SPEAKER_00: Exactly You go into the underworld and you die and then you...
1:21:08
SPEAKER_01: And then you come back And then you go to the heaven and then you die again
1:21:20
SPEAKER_01: But you asked also about...
1:21:26
SPEAKER_01: what could be worth exploring in other episodes and I think the topic of
1:21:32
SPEAKER_01: the rituals itself is really one of them because it has the direct connection to
1:21:43
SPEAKER_01: the flow state and to the trance states
1:21:47
SPEAKER_01: It has direct relationships and another topic it might seem related
1:21:53
SPEAKER_01: but it's also like different somehow it's the particular kind of rituals which are
1:22:02
SPEAKER_01: the rites of passage that are necessary exactly to accompany these transitions
1:22:12
SPEAKER_01: and we
1:22:14
SPEAKER_01: somehow in the modern world lost the connection to the significance of the rites
1:22:21
SPEAKER_01: of passage and so that is why I believe many times we're not able to go through
1:22:32
SPEAKER_01: the transitions like in a more just to go through
1:22:39
SPEAKER_01: We're not going through because there are no logistics that provide this passage.
1:22:49
SPEAKER_02: Yes, we could even say the transition into perimenopause and menopause, I mean,
1:22:59
SPEAKER_02: there isn't really, you know, a transition ritual that could be there, right?
1:23:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:23:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:23:09
SPEAKER_02: something that's so biological right and so like more even grounded to
1:23:14
SPEAKER_02: the physical reality okay Yul I don't like it to divide physiological and grounded
1:23:29
SPEAKER_00: to this physical reality
1:23:33
SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry, it's not to this topic, but I'm just voicing my resistance.
1:23:48
SPEAKER_01: Resistance!
1:23:49
SPEAKER_01: The resistance finally came!
1:23:51
SPEAKER_01: It's not the resistance, it's a revolutionary spirit.
1:23:56
SPEAKER_02: Wait, but you have an issue with what I just said about...
1:24:02
SPEAKER_02: the perimenopause and menopause being a transition that's more it's a transition
1:24:08
SPEAKER_00: at many levels i mean one of the yeah that's transition is
1:24:12
SPEAKER_00: that you no longer menstruate but it's just one of
1:24:17
SPEAKER_00: the attributes yeah um i mean even like the consider the phys the physicality of
1:24:27
SPEAKER_00: that and just like the
1:24:30
SPEAKER_00: Power of that,
1:24:31
SPEAKER_00: that every month you used to bleed,
1:24:35
SPEAKER_00: bleed blood Yes, physicality, physiological process Meaning it starts with...
1:24:47
SPEAKER_00: The way that you divide it,
1:24:49
SPEAKER_00: it sounds like,
1:24:50
SPEAKER_00: oh yeah, this physicality of it as opposed to, you know, like all the
1:24:59
SPEAKER_00: More superior realms But I think that's the physicality actually is what matters
1:25:07
SPEAKER_00: Because without the physicality you're not going to feel a loss You're not going
1:25:14
SPEAKER_00: to transition You're not going to be initiated anywhere So it's exactly like it's
1:25:21
SPEAKER_00: the core of sacredness to me
1:25:29
SPEAKER_00: That's what I want to say to tie it to the topic of our discussion.
1:25:34
SPEAKER_02: And I only said physicality because it's kicked off by a physical process but
1:25:39
SPEAKER_02: of course there's so many other aspects to this and the
1:25:46
SPEAKER_02: initiation into it and out of it are not actually part of our society and
1:25:52
SPEAKER_02: the way things are set up but it could be so much more significant beyond just
1:25:57
SPEAKER_02: the physical okay now I got my period or now I don't have my period it's kicked off
1:26:01
SPEAKER_02: by the physical aspect but there's so much more
1:26:04
SPEAKER_00: to it yeah I mean it's like you know we can also say that it's not what
1:26:14
SPEAKER_00: really causes that transition.
1:26:17
SPEAKER_00: It's not necessarily age.
1:26:18
SPEAKER_00: For some people, it's just something.
1:26:22
SPEAKER_00: I didn't say age.
1:26:22
SPEAKER_00: Something about their life.
1:26:26
SPEAKER_02: I said there's a hormone shift.
1:26:29
SPEAKER_02: Things are shifting and physically...
1:26:32
SPEAKER_00: things are transformed like on the mechanics there is hormone shift
1:26:36
SPEAKER_00: but you know like what's beyond that like why are
1:26:40
SPEAKER_00: the hormone shifting is I mean it's like such a multi-layered process that has
1:26:48
SPEAKER_00: so many feedback loops and can take it take us as far as the underworld or the
1:26:57
SPEAKER_00: the apple world apple world
1:27:01
SPEAKER_02: Upper world Okay,
1:27:05
SPEAKER_02: well, I nominate you as the leader of that episode, Yulia Which episode exactly?
1:27:17
SPEAKER_01: On the rite of passage or on the perimenopause?
1:27:20
SPEAKER_02: On the rites of passage when it comes to periods and menopause An episode on menopause, why not?
1:27:28
SPEAKER_00: Why not?
1:27:29
SPEAKER_00: That is a very a topic very dear to my heart and
1:27:36
SPEAKER_00: that holds actually told some some energy it's called some good energy good okay
1:27:43
SPEAKER_02: so we have some topics coming out of this maybe maybe maybe okay yeah can I get
1:27:50
SPEAKER_02: a reflection from both of you about what you're taking away from today's discussion
1:28:04
SPEAKER_01: Well, I will repeat what I've just said that I have some reflections to do
1:28:10
SPEAKER_01: and observations to observe regarding what has been discussed Yul?
1:28:22
SPEAKER_00: I'm taking away the sense of kind of like meandering Yeah That was happening
1:28:28
SPEAKER_00: for me It's like, whoo, here, there, like how this
1:28:33
SPEAKER_00: connected well sacredness and ritual but then flow and what opens up and when
1:28:43
SPEAKER_00: but I think what I'm taking with me that it's I had had those experiences
1:28:53
SPEAKER_00: but I'm taking more in or more fully in my awareness is how
1:29:03
SPEAKER_00: important that in a group of people access to to something much bigger
1:29:17
SPEAKER_00: that ritual can provide provide this liminal space right you know this thing
1:29:22
SPEAKER_00: where just really
1:29:26
SPEAKER_00: Crazy things might happen,
1:29:28
SPEAKER_00: there may be no time, depending on the threshold that's being crossed and the depth.
1:29:35
SPEAKER_00: It's how important it is for all to be holding the sacredness.
1:29:48
SPEAKER_00: Because I think that
1:29:53
SPEAKER_00: Just one person not fully occupying the experience and that liminality
1:30:02
SPEAKER_00: and everything that can happen there is gone Well that makes me think
1:30:11
SPEAKER_02: that potentially me not being physically present at the funeral could have affected
1:30:16
SPEAKER_02: the entire experience for the rest of the family members
1:30:25
SPEAKER_02: right because I'm not fully
1:30:26
SPEAKER_02: in it I'm not fully holding well no maybe they are not fully in
1:30:31
SPEAKER_00: that experience wouldn't have been available for you if you were there
1:30:34
SPEAKER_00: because they are not exactly in holding the sacredness true and you are
1:30:40
SPEAKER_00: and I've had plenty of times when me being on my own
1:30:46
SPEAKER_00: and holding sacredness it just like so much more is in that
1:30:55
SPEAKER_00: for me and it feels like for the space and even for people who are not there who
1:31:01
SPEAKER_00: by all rules should have been there but they are not occupying the space
1:31:11
SPEAKER_00: of sacredness and me inhabiting that experience with my full attention
1:31:22
SPEAKER_00: and my sacredness
1:31:25
SPEAKER_00: I feel it does create that space of sacredness that ritual creates of luminality
1:31:41
SPEAKER_00: and shifts and dying and emerging in a different state.
1:31:54
SPEAKER_02: I did have that sense when I worked through some of the parts of me
1:32:02
SPEAKER_02: that were worried or not sure about how this whole thing went but then when I landed
1:32:10
SPEAKER_02: on really intentionally sitting through the funeral at the same time as New York
1:32:16
SPEAKER_02: and I actually touched
1:32:20
SPEAKER_02: You know I was connecting to dad not to them in that room right but like to dad
1:32:26
SPEAKER_02: in spirit form and I actually started feeling a lot of like positive vibrations
1:32:35
SPEAKER_02: about the fact that I was sitting and I was looking at palm trees and blue skies and
1:32:39
SPEAKER_02: the sun and birds and I was really like intentionally bringing in
1:32:44
SPEAKER_02: a very different energy and and
1:32:49
SPEAKER_02: experience into this part of the transition you know for him for me
1:32:55
SPEAKER_02: and I was even I even became glad that I was able to bring that in that instead
1:33:01
SPEAKER_02: of like murky dark New York he also got to you know
1:33:09
SPEAKER_02: Potentially connect with the the other energies that were being held for him
1:33:14
SPEAKER_02: that maybe he didn't have as much during his lifetime even and also I didn't have
1:33:19
SPEAKER_02: with him in during during our life together we never like went on vacation you know
1:33:25
SPEAKER_02: and saw anything beautiful together so it was actually
1:33:27
SPEAKER_02: a very beautiful connecting energy of something else during the transition
1:33:33
SPEAKER_02: that wouldn't have been available if I went to New York
1:33:37
SPEAKER_02: So none of it is linear and significance and sacredness and meaning I mean there's
1:33:46
SPEAKER_02: so many internal doorways but also like the doorways in the morphic field
1:33:52
SPEAKER_02: and it's such a journey of exploration and
1:34:00
SPEAKER_02: It's so much.
1:34:01
SPEAKER_02: It's so interesting when things become less inside out and more like outside in,
1:34:06
SPEAKER_02: which is, I think, the transition that I'm going through in general.
1:34:13
SPEAKER_02: Which creates, you know, like so much more magic, as Ida would say, or like, what is real?
1:34:18
SPEAKER_02: You know, the episode we just did.
1:34:20
SPEAKER_02: What is real?
1:34:28
SPEAKER_02: It's an interesting experience,
1:34:30
SPEAKER_02: but I also have a lot more to reflect on and digest and process and,
1:34:35
SPEAKER_02: you know, locate in me.
1:34:40
SPEAKER_02: Did I interrupt you?
1:34:41
SPEAKER_02: Did you, did you finish with what you're walking away with Yul?
1:34:44
SPEAKER_02: Because I kind of finished.
1:34:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:34:47
SPEAKER_02: Okay, good.
1:34:48
SPEAKER_02: And then I picked up on it and went into my spiel.
1:34:51
SPEAKER_02: Okay, well.
1:34:53
SPEAKER_02: Thank you ladies for going on this journey
1:34:58
SPEAKER_02: with me today this meandering journey I like
1:35:02
SPEAKER_02: that description Yulia it did feel very meandering and there were like
1:35:07
SPEAKER_02: as I said many different threads and doorways and
1:35:13
SPEAKER_02: I wanted to have a light touch just to see what is here around this topic
1:35:17
SPEAKER_02: but maybe we can have more deep dives like you said about rituals themselves
1:35:25
SPEAKER_02: and rites of passage and maybe menopause but I'm grateful that we were able
1:35:33
SPEAKER_02: to explore in this way today
1:35:36
SPEAKER_02: So thank you very much and for anyone listening or anyone that's seeing this
1:35:42
SPEAKER_02: on YouTube we would love to hear from you please share where do you sit
1:35:47
SPEAKER_02: or how does it land for you that these concepts of concepts of sacredness
1:35:53
SPEAKER_02: and rituals and meaning and how does flow tie in or doesn't tie in to all
1:36:01
SPEAKER_02: of this we would love to hear from you
1:36:05
SPEAKER_02: And we will see you next time Thank you Thank you Thanks for listening How was it for you?
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