Latest / Leaders in Customer Loyalty, Powered by Loyalty360 / #498: Leaders in Customer Loyalty: Industry Voices | Inside Kobie’s Perspective on the Forces Shaping Loyalty in 2026

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#498: Leaders in Customer Loyalty: Industry Voices | Inside Kobie’s Perspective on the Forces Shaping Loyalty in 2026 · Leaders in Customer Loyalty, Powered by Loyalty360

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone, this is AJ Schneider from Loyalty360, welcoming you to another edition of our Leaders in Customer Loyalty Industry Voices podcast.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: In these episodes, we talk to the leading agencies, technology partners, and consultants in customer, channel, and brand loyalty about the technology, trends, and best practices that impact the ability of brands to drive unique experiences, engagement, and ultimately customer loyalty.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: This episode is part of our 2026 trend series where we're talking about what patterns and best practices we're likely to see in the upcoming year.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Today we're speaking with Haley Hannel, Senior Manager of Strategic Consulting at Kobe Marketing, a global loyalty and customer experience consultancy that designs, builds, optimizes data-driven loyalty ecosystems that help brands deepen emotional connections and drive long-term customer value.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Haley.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for joining us.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to be here.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, um, this is our in our in our series of uh trend podcasts that we're doing.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so we want to look at uh a variety of trends and and changes maybe over the past year, maybe longer, uh, as we go into 2026.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so that's kind of where we're focusing our questions today.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: So starting off, looking back at 2025, um, what were the emerging behaviors or market conditions that you think have had the greatest influence on how loyalty strategies have been designed?
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was it instant gratification of customers, you know, what what's the driving force right now?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, what comes to mind for me in this one is an overwhelming desire for community and belonging.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: We do this um big report every single year where we ask consumers and we ask members, you know, what they're looking for in the year.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: And we found that 75% plus of them are actually really uneasy with the rate of social, political, and economic changes that was happening around them.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: And if you know, think about yourself, when things get a little scary, you look to others and you look to community to kind of um have that connection and have that stability.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think we saw that a lot within loyalty programs this year, you know, just having members kind of reach out to brands, reach out to other members, looking for that sense of belonging, um, going beyond just this transactional vehicle that loyalty programs have typically been in the past and been a place where we're seeing connection instead.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's what we're, you know, working with our brands and how can we find really authentic ways to build communities?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: I always look to best in class programs like Nike, who have this brand ethos of connection and you know, health and wellness, and they've created these really fun, like running groups that you can go and work out with across the United States, or um, you know, they have workout classes that they're hosting, and it's a very authentic expression of their brand through community.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what really stands out to me in 2025.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: And and would you say that that emotional loyalty specifically kind of falls underneath that umbrella that you were just talking about?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, as we continue talking about trends, Kobe's emotional loyalty scoring is something that I always refer back to because it's so hard to understand how are your members resonating with you through that emotional, you know, lever.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: And we actually have a tool that we can get down to how are you emotionally resonating, and we can track it to a member level so we can actually connect your members to your program, whether that's their sense of habit, their sense of status that they want to exude, or you know, the sense of reciprocity of like building the relationship with the brand.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I I do think that um we we probably have to talk a little about um uh sort of the the ROI uh of loyalty programs.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: And and one of the things that you know we're seeing overall is this concept of loyalty value compression, um, where on one hand uh consumers um uh expect more out of the program, they expect more value, but at the same time, depending on how the economy's going and how the company's doing and in question, um, margins might be shrinking at the same time.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: There's more financial pressure.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um how are you helping your clients to kind of navigate that dichotomy?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're absolutely right.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you know, what you can't do is discount your way to loyalty, and it's an easy lever to pull off in just price.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the way we're really framing this up with our brands is I think there's two things you can focus on here.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: And one is reducing friction.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's usually not going to hit your PL.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: If you can offer something to members that's actually making their experience more convenient, um, that'll add value to the experience.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think of my dad all the time with Delta Airlines, like he will never not fly Delta Airlines, even if it's more expensive.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: But he gets the Sky Miles line instead of like TSA Pre-Check, and you know, he gets to board the plane early.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think these things are huge financial impacts to the PL, but they're adding such perceived value to the member.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I think if you can think through, you know, how can your brand add that type of convenience to a member's journey?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that'll be one lever that you can pull.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then second, I'm sure you're seeing this across your conversations is strategic partnerships.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, how can you add value through a partner that's not necessarily eroding your margin?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I think the brand that comes to mind often is Target 360.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: They gave me a free trial this year.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: So they're my brand that I refer back to all the time, but they have same-day delivery for Target.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously that's something that they have to think about with their, you know, their margin.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: But part of the same-day delivery is this partnership ecosystem that I actually can get free, you know, shipping through their entire shipped partnership.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think that's adding so much value to my experience as a member.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and Target's getting to like expand their strategic partnership ecosystem and find ways to bring in revenue through these experiences that make a ton of sense through the member, the member lines.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: It makes a lot of sense.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: And and in terms of, you know, we we talked about the value compression, you know, concept.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in general, what are the challenges that you think uh exist today as we come to the end of 2025 that maybe didn't exist, you know, 18 to to 24 months ago?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I think AI is such a hot topic right now, but it's what kind of comes to mind here is there's this personalization privacy paradox of we have never been able to personalize more than we can today.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's only going to increase as we go into 2026.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: But I think consumers are kind of taking a step back and thinking about brands are starting to ask for a lot of my data or not ask, and like, how can I make sure that they're using this data in a way that um is helpful to me and that they're using it in a in a very trustworthy way.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that challenge really becomes like, how do you balance personalization and not being creepy?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we work a ton with brands on okay, you want to ask your members for data.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Loyalty programs are this insanely, you know, trustworthy space where you have consented, you know, data that you're asking for.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: And we know that if you, you know, you ask for it in a way where transparency is at the center, like we want this because of this, um, you're gonna have this huge advantage and members are gonna start to trust you more.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you're just gonna have better experiences because of the control and the transparency that you're giving back to the member.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't really think we had this as much 18 to 24 months ago.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think AI is really accelerating this.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, since you brought it up, why don't why don't we jump in into the into the AI uh discussion?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah um you know it's I don't think it's any secret.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the the uh the focus on AI, well, I think it's been around probably longer than people realize, to your point, with things like personalization and so on, there's lots of um tools out there that had been kind of working toward what consumers generally associate with AI now, but it's a little bit more overt at this point.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: People are talking about it.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: What are the gaps that you think uh companies have right now in in you know, organizationally to be ready for what's coming next with AI and really what's here now?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: Is it um is it the actual technology and and and the ability to integrate that technology with their own platforms?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um is it internal resources, you know, financially or otherwise?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: Is it you know the talent to actually run the AI programs?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: What do you see?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think it's not talent.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think we have like really incredibly talented people, especially with the brands that Kobe is working with.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: What I find a lot is the ability to act on data.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we tech, you know, we work with a lot of systems that are just a little bit outdated, especially like point of sale systems.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so if you think about, okay, I want to ask a member for this data point so that I can fuel my personalization engine, utilize AI to have hyper-relevant journeys.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think from collection to activation is where we're seeing a little bit of a gap of, okay, I want to ask, I don't know how to activate.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's something that we're very intentional with with our customers because we know we don't want to ask for a lot of data from our members and then not be able to return that value back to them.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's starting small, you know, creating learning agendas where we can we can get some quick wins and show like the connection between asking and activating.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I would say overall it's a lot of technology and it's a little bit of the, you know, the the like a paralysis of being able to act on the data we're getting.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the the the paralysis issue is something I think that um uh seems to be coming up a lot more in terms of you know, we we've we've collected all of this information.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Now what you know, what do we do with it?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and I don't know, maybe that falls into my next question, but from a misconception standpoint, like what people think they know about AI and and and what the the reality of the situation is, what are you seeing as as being, you know, where people are maybe misunderstanding uh their opportunity, misunderstanding what some of this means?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Is there are the things that your clients are are asking you about or that you you've sort of observed?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think the biggest misconception is that brands think AI is happening like just at the enterprise level, like and you kind of said it yourself.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like consumers are sitting there thinking, oh, this is AI and it's part of my loyalty program.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's happening at a broader level, like with the you know website, with the customer service, maybe in operations that are not visible to the customer.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think the misconception is, and what brands are starting to ask us, is how will AI actually transform loyalty programs specifically?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I don't think consumers will necessarily feel like a very overt, this is AI, but they're gonna expect it from the brand generally.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think loyalty programs are just so uniquely positioned to leverage AI in ways that the broader brand cannot, because loyalty sits on top of this, you know, system that has first-party data.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: There's that explicit value exchange, and it's just gonna change everything.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I think we'll go from transactional relevance to emotional resonance.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we talked about emotional loyalty scoring a little bit, but it's it's not gonna be enough to be knowing what the customer has done transactionally.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna have to start to understand why they did it and like what motivated that behavior, what emotion drove that choice.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so if we can identify how members are emotionally motivated, which Kobe loves to talk about with our ELS scoring framework, AI is gonna be able to take those insights and really activate them, you know, at scale.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think zero-party data comes into this, being able to message one-to-one using those insights.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so when AI actually kind of disappears where you don't feel it, it's gonna feel way more human.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where loyalty is going of you don't actually want to know that this is AI.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: You want to just make it feel like a human level connection.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and and it'll just make the experience more convenient and more personalized and just much better.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think loyalty is very uniquely positioned to do that.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: And and you mentioned um kind of when we first started talking about AI here, uh the the idea that um I think the way you put it is you you you're striving, your clients are striving to make sure it doesn't feel creepy when they're collecting um, you know, uh probably fairly uh personal information and so on to be able to deliver the the experience that that we think they're looking for.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um but maybe drill down on that a little bit.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: I I think the the concept of explaining why we're asking in some fashion for this data so that as a consumer I feel more comfortable giving to you.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: But if you could drill down on that a little bit and and and maybe some of the the uh the con the the um the the the consultation you're giving to your clients on on that issue.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so a couple things.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think when we're talking to our brands, we're talking a lot about granular control.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you shouldn't just ask for blanket permissions.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: So don't just ask me for everything, but be really specific.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're asking like for location, say we want to give you personalized offers when you're near our store.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: So that way at least the member knows, okay, this is how the brand wants to use my information.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: And now it's a choice of if I feel comfortable or not giving it to them.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think a little bit of an incentive goes a long way.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: We did a lot of research on there are certain things members are willing to share if they get bonus points for it, you know, things like the preference surveys or complete your profile.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: So again, if you can like layer in that incentive plus a very clear value exchange, I think you're gonna start to get members who feel more comfortable sharing.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I think what's gonna become more and more important, especially as AI will unlock this, is the real-time transparency.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: So showing, hey, you asked for this and this is how we delivered.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think for me, again, like I use Delta with my dad, but they asked me what kind of upgrades I like.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Do I like aisle or window?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, next flight I'm getting upgraded to business comfort, and I'm like, I can never go back.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to fly Delta more because they asked me for something and then the next flight, they delivered on it.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that real-time transparency is gonna be really important.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then the last one is progressive profiling.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: So don't overwhelm a consumer as soon as they step foot into your program.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, don't ask them for everything right off the bat.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: But if you can kind of layer in the request for more information as they become nurtured into your program, that'll feel less creepy.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you're probably gonna get more because you're not just asking for the world right off the bat.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's as we're talking about sort of getting data from the customers, that's probably a good segue into a little bit of discussion about measurement.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so from a KPI perspective, um, you know, there's you know, we've probably done hundreds of podcasts talking about, you know, what specifically are are you know the KPIs that a brand might you know pay attention to to determine whether their program is a success or or whether it needs uh some help.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um but are there some things that you're noticing with the advent of all this, you know, new technology and so on that sort of make KPIs or some certain KPIs outdated?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: And if so, what what are those?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: So two come to mind.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: The first might be controversial, but um enrollment rate as like a primary KPI, I think is dangerous because how many times have you signed up for a program because you got 20% off your first purchase, and then you kind of forget about that you're even part of that program, and it's really easy to stay in it because it's like very frictionless to just stay enrolled into a program.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't like that as a primary KPI.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think you should focus way more on engaging these members as soon as they get into the program and looking at some of those other KPIs, you know, like conversion rates, purchases, redemption rates.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I love Taco Bell had this article the other day about their social media accounts and their social media strategy.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: They actually don't focus a ton on new followers, they're focusing on how many shares do I get, how many comments am I getting?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're looking for that engagement with the content because that's who your truly loyal members are.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you can make sure that they're happy and engaged, that's gonna go way further than just getting a new sign up.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then a second KPI, we're gonna continue seeing the convergence of CRM and loyalty, especially with AI.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's just gonna become impossible to separate the two.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I think things like um open rates, especially with kind of the way technology is going and privacy is going, the open rate isn't gonna be a huge indicator.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: But what are they doing with that CRM?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Are they clicking through and exploring new products that you've prompted them with?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Are they clicking through and filling out their profile because that's you know the major part of that email campaign?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think you know, with that convergence, making sure that you're looking at KPIs that are actually gonna drive loyalty versus do they open the email?
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, are the two that come to mind?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I when you talk about engagement, um I'm I'm curious.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think it can be a challenge depending on what type of you know product or service you're selling.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, the the whole relevancy factor to that, like you know, as a consumer, you mentioned Taco Bell, right?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: Do I I'm I'm saying this I'm making this up, but like, do I really care what Taco Bell has to say about XYZ and some piece of content that that they've given me?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Is that and and I imagine that's where you guys come in to to be able to, you know, give advice and and and build that program for whoever the the client is, but it content seems to be if it's not specifically hey, there's a payoff for for me engaging with this, is it hard to get people to pay attention to content that brand XYZ might be putting out?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, absolutely.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think if you're if you're creating content to create content and then you're blasting it to your entire member base, like I wouldn't expect tons of engagement with that.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: But if you can start to understand your members differentially, like I think about um, you know, like a program like AMC Stubbs, where you have a casual moviegoer um who might not like to go to the movies every single week versus their A-list members who are going four times a week, they're consuming as much content as possible.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: If we can know, you know, these members actually would be super interested in a behind-the-scenes content from XYZ studio.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that actually would be a really engaging campaign.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe we can put some gamification mechanics behind it to get them to, you know, explore new types of films that are coming out.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if you can start to understand your member base like that and personalize the content to to them, um that'll be that'll be way go way further than if you're just blasting content for content's sake.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way, just it's a whole separate podcast, but I would like to know who these people are that are going to the movies one times a week.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that they exist.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, because AMC, they raised their prices for A-list back in January, but they were very um intentional about creating a value exchange of we haven't raised prices in years.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: We have to to you know make ends work, but we're gonna give you an extra movie every week.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: So in from three to four this year, and people were so excited.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I cannot imagine having the time or interest, but there are many, many people.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's really it's actually a really cool industry to work in just because um you know, Cinephiles are they're into it.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, for sure, for sure.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, so let's talk about we'll put pull back to 100,000 people a little bit.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we kind of you kind of alluded to some of these things, but um, but if we could look back at at the last year uh and say, hey, there people were making certain assumptions about loyalty programs, um, how they should be, what they should be.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um what are some of the outdated assumptions you think that people?
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Are going to have to get over and leave behind as we move into 2026.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: So two things come to mind here.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think they have the same like origin of brands focusing on a tactic versus focusing on like a broader strategy.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so gamification and paid loyalty come to mind of like, we can't just throw spaghetti at the wall and hope that we can get more revenue or more engagement from putting a game in front of them or adding a subscription model to our to our ecosystem.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: You really have to start with what am I trying to solve first?
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then those are absolutely amazing levers that you can leverage, like you know, a game that would add a little bit more engagement, get people thinking about a new product that came out, or um, we have some brands that use it really early on in like a welcome experience so that they're learning more about the program in a really fun way so that they stay engaged in the long term.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm sure you've seen it with paid loyalty.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think brands, when they're feeling the margins get tight, they want to find more ways to bring in money.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so they think, okay, can I add a subscription tier?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Can I add a co-branded credit card?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and if it's not done really intentionally, it's it's not going to resonate with your members and it's it's not going to be successful.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a conversation we had a lot with our brands this year of, okay, we hear you that you want to add a subscription model to your program.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like let's make sure it makes sense for your business before we just start with that initiative.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then maybe conversely, um, what are things that you think people aren't thinking about that they really should be?
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that they should really uh most, you know, very specifically think about implementing as we go into the new year.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I've said in the beginning of this podcast that that we see that our members are nervous about the rate of change socially, politically, economically.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really impacting their life stages.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: So if you think about a young Gen Z coming out of college, like they might not be buying a house right away or getting married right away.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's really impacting their life stages.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think loyalty programs, with this evolution of personalization and AI, it'll become more about these like minor stones that we're calling it versus major milestones.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so how can you learn to celebrate the members within the program for things that matter a ton to them, but might not be typical in their life stage?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: So we've talked about like paying off your student debt, or um, maybe you got a pet versus had a kid, you know.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, how can we figure out these ways to celebrate our members in smaller ways that'll make them feel really recognized?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I think if you think of like very tactically in a loyalty program, it could be like your 50th visit matters, or your first product view matters.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you referred a friend.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was talking to a president of Kobe the other day, and she had her thousandth visit to a hotel brand that she always has frequented, and they did nothing.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like that matters to her.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like she's a very successful businesswoman, like part of this loyalty program for years, and she had a thousand nights and there was nothing.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like these things matter to members, so how can we make sure that they're celebrated?
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you've ever seen the movie Um Up in the Air, uh, with George Clooney.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he's I'll spare you the details, but but he flies a million miles.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's his his goal, is whatever the fake airline was.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: He flies a million miles and and the pilot um during the middle of the flight comes out of the cockpit and sits down with him and hands him a special gold card and so on for for hitting that button.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it, you know, nothing really changes, but it meant a lot to him to do.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it matters.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: They just want to feel recognized and seen and celebrated.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's something that we're missing a little bit.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think it'll be a really cool opportunity in 2026.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then maybe last but not least, um, and and and I think that the answer to this question I'll answer maybe to come see Kobe and talk to you.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: But um what advice, what advice would you give to brands that that maybe are not feeling like their loyalty program is um is where it needs to be.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and they're not really sure, you know, kind of where to start looking uh for for the areas of improvement?
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Are there some things that you would always say, you know, without knowing the details, obviously, hey, that let's start your check here, like you know, go through this process.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, I would always say start with listening.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think market research can be underutilized.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what better way to learn what works or not works in your program than with talking to the people who are a part of it?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then if I will plug Kobe for a second, we have a loyalty health monitor.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I think a lot of brands get nervous and they just they think so big of okay, maybe I need to overhaul my entire program.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: But we can take it tactically and like look at where you sit against your competitors.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: We can, you know, look at the data that's already existing within your program and see if there's some like smaller things that we can tweak to get engagement or to get active, you know, activation rates up.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think you know, once you know where you stand and this loyalty health monitor can help you just understand that broader picture, you can make those small tweaks and you don't have to try to fix everything at once because that's super overwhelming.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's very expensive and it might not work.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so let's start, let's start small.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: Let's start with those kind of health checks and and go from there and build momentum to show results.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Haley, thank you for taking the time to speak with us today on our Leaders in Customer Loyalty Industry Voices podcast.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's been great getting your perspective on customer loyalty, and we look forward to learning more from you and the team at Kobe throughout the uh the new year.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks for having me.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: This was fun.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited for 2026 and everything that it brings.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: I want to thank everyone for tuning in to our Leaders in Customer Loyalty Podcast series.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: If you haven't already, please subscribe to the Leaders in Customer Loyalty Podcast and follow Loyalty360 on YouTube and LinkedIn.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: The links are provided below.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: Please join us every Tuesday for another edition of our Industry Voices podcast.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: And if you have questions, please don't hesitate to reach out.