Latest / 12 Months to Marathon / Episode 113 - Why Running Isn’t a Second Job — With James “Fudgie” Thomas

Transcript

Episode 113 - Why Running Isn’t a Second Job — With James “Fudgie” Thomas · 12 Months to Marathon

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, welcome to the 12 months of Marathon Podcast.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's with me, John Hill, the running podcast for the over 35s with Marathon Dreams, episode 113.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: I've got a very special guest in me today.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: I've got James Thomas with me today.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: James, how are you?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm all good, mate.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for getting me on here.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: No, you're very welcome.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: So you're very welcome.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: James also goes by InstaFudgy on uh on Instagram, which is quite a cool name.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, not an um not an easy one to uh to dodge there.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's quite a good name, I quite like that as well.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: So um basically, I wanted to get James on, I'll give you a bit of background, I'll let him tell his story.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: So um I've seen James pop up quite a bit in terms of posts and things like that.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, we know how Instagram works and things like that, and James has built a fairly large following from sharing what I perceive to be a very real version of running the good, the bad, the ugly, the mental health journey, which I think is one of the things that I want to dive into today, uh, and everything that goes with running as well.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really the main thing.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's one of the main things that I said to James before we jumped on was James is a very big promoter of just running because you enjoy it and doing it for the love of it, and I think we tend to lose that, particularly as um social media grows and our natural propensity to compare and the fuel that social media, whether you like it or not, it's just the way it is, does to that comparison world.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll dive a bit into that.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: So before we get into it, James, um, what I want to do first question is before Instagram marathons and everything else, who were you before running and how did running come into your life?
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, to be honest, I've never really been um a sporty person.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: I used to play football, I used to be a goalkeeper, but then I went to school and didn't grow anymore, so I didn't really couldn't really play goalkeeper anymore and all these people that are six foot.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um basically it's around about the Olympics, and we had the Olympics in London, was it 2012?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: 2012, yeah, yeah.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like obviously I didn't wasn't really at bother with the Olympics when they started, I was like, Oh my god, this is amazing out of the country, and obviously watching Mofar and people like that.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's what we got me into running that way, but also we're in the office.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: We had this guy who was always baiting me.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I can you can't run a half marathon, I'll beat you.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a bit of a bet, really.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: I got into running for a bet, really.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, right, I've got to shut this guy up and sort of signed up to the card of half marathon, and we sort of trained each other at a bit of office banter, then did that.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I'm never doing any more running again.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'd uh chafed nipples bleeding, couldn't walk for a week, and I thought I'm never, never doing this again.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I beat him, I was like, I've done one and done.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: But then he said, right, it's beginners' luck, we need to do another half marathon now, just you know, prove it's not a one-off.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: So we did the bar five, and then this got addicted, right?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: You think, oh my god, there's so many races around the country.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's quite good to travel the different areas and start running really and do go and see different things and also running on the way, really.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, yeah, in the short term, it's a bet really got me sort of into running along with the the 2012 Olympics, really.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's it's it I think a lot of people's journey starts in in a very sort of obscure way because a lot of you know, not you know, it's funny, isn't it?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because like if you're an athlete from a young age, then it's fairly obvious, isn't it?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of people, yeah, it'd start.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I did a half marathon in 2011 with a PT client of mine at the time.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: I just said, Oh, I'll run it with you, and then I thought, oh, you know, you know, it was that it was like a it wasn't something that I thought I'd ever do, so it went from there.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: So you mentioned you mentioned quite a lot, uh, which is which I chuckle, is you've got a love-hate relationship with the running.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess let's let's start with the bad news.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: What do you what do you hate about it and why do you keep doing it?
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think back in the day when I started running, you naturally get quicker, don't you?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: So you you're hitting PBs and it just feels not easy, but you know, it when you're new, you're always you're picking off PBs.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think it got to run COVID when I sort of did my first sub 90 half marathon and sub 40 tank and I thought I'm not really enjoying this.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: It feels more like the pay stuff.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry to you.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: So you that was when it got to like not enjoying it when you yeah, okay.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just thought like, you know, I'm doing really well, but what I've got to put in to get that quick.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean it's it's supposed to be a hobby, not a second job.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: I was part of a run club, which was really supportive at the time, part bring back, really good club, but then it's all about running and racing, and then COVID came and I thought I can't be doing any speedy, I just want to run.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I actually enjoy running when I haven't got a goal to to run for.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: In COVID, it is providing me so much headspace.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd say probably the thing I hate about running is trying to chase PBs anymore.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm quite ambitious still, but it's probably the the rat race of you know, works a rat race, then you try to have a rat race of trying to get quick and in running.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's just the time, the pace sort of um got them ahead a lot and sort of made me think I'm doing two jobs here, and it's not my job, it's my hobby.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I get that.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's uh and there's that wonderful quote, isn't it, which is run, really, run, run, run off and run far, but never outlove your love of running.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where is a big message, I think, for a lot of people is this thing about I always say you don't have to set goals, you don't have to chase PBs.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you don't have to, that's not because there's always going to be someone faster.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think COVID, I think COVID made me realise actually do enjoy running and what it does for your mental health and sort of being aside and interacting with people around COVID.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: That was the only person we could see a runner, my friend, and we'd run.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: So you'd have to ever see somebody, and he really appreciated like running and what it did for your head.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, that's leads me on to my next question, really.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: So you've spoken a lot about sort of your personal transformation.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: How much of that transformation would you attribute to running physically but also particularly psychologically?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like I said, I've been quite fortunate to meet so many cool people for running, and that's what it's about, really.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Just uh me and you were chatting now.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: I've met so many friends for life already, different backgrounds, different people, different parts of the country, different parts of the world, really.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like running is such a community-based sport, and I'm quite passionate about it.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think at the minute it's going a bit of the other way, you know, very back into individual.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the best part of running is the people you meet, the journeys, everybody's you know, doing running for a different thing, everybody's running different times, different paces.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I think for me, it's all about the community it brings as well, and the amount of people you always when you do a parking, you always chat to somebody you've never spoken to before, they've got different different experiences.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's it.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Just the communication and meeting new people is a big thing for running for me.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Do you remember when it stopped becoming like exercise and started becoming something that you enjoyed that was part of your life?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Jim I think it was probably.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: I joined like a running club and it's a really um you know, supportive community.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm quite a competitive person anyway.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: So you're obviously chasing goals then.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was before I joined a running club, I was always doing 149 half marathon, I couldn't get any quicker.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I joined that running club and then suddenly I was running 145, then 140s, you just get addictive to running quicker.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: I find it no, it's the same anything.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: If you're good at something, you feel like you're getting better at it, it's addictive, isn't it?
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's when I really took to another level when you're part of a running club, when you're running with not saying proper runners, but people who are running to get better, not just to run for you know, for their for their well-being.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's more like, right, we're doing a session to get quicker.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it was that mindset.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: I did that for three or four years.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: Don't get me wrong, I ran some pretty good times sitting on a guy who was you know 1670 stone at one point.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: They was quite proud of that, but then he did that's when he really geared into it.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: It was like chasing those times.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's addictive when you're chopping a minute off a PB every race.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's gets addicted.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: But now it does, it it it certainly, I think it does for a lot of people, and it's the it's the um, I guess it's the how do I put this?
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's the it's having that in the right context, I guess, in the sense of you can't, like you said, you can't let it consume you because it's like otherwise you'll I mean, I've done races where I've done pretty good times, but because it wasn't the time I wanted or thought I could do, I've been disappointed, and then I've actually sat there after it and gone, come on, mate, give your head a wobble.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think I did pass on a half.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: I passed on a marathon, sorry, I trained really hard and I didn't get the Taiwanic because suddenly the the race was 29 degrees and I'd be trained in Swansea and Wales in the cold.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then I finished that race and I launched my mail into a bush, and I was like, and uh about 10 minutes later, I was like, What are you doing?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's just running, do you know what I mean?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: Some people can't run the marathon, but that's what the the negative of it of always chasing a time.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: You're in the middle of Barcelona, one of the greatest cities in the world, and you've throwing your med in the bush because you didn't run a time and you're thinking how lucky you are to be able to be in Barcelona and run the marathon.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's what I think time is like I said, give your head a wobble.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's a bit of that like Jesus, no one really cares how quick you run.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because one guy gave me advice that day and said, Fajji, no one cares about your time.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry to be the the bearer of bad news who said, No one cares, it's only you will care.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, why do you care?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's it's it's hard.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think you mentioned something I want to explore if you don't mind, Midi.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: You said you said that and I think what it what's really I'll caveat this question because it's really important for me, I think.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: Talking about like the what I I don't want to I don't want to sort of make out like this is a negative thing or negative, but I think when you said things are going the other way, um, in terms of social media and and how people compare themselves.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I've noticed that a lot of a lot more people now are sharing their journeys and they're getting a lot of abuse, particularly the I'll use the words like slower runner, plus size runner, whatever language you want to use that makes you feel good.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm seeing and I I follow those people because obviously that's a place where I've come from, and I want I think they need support more than Mr.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: 239 230 marathon because they don't really need the help.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: So why do you think it's why do you think it potentially is going more the other way?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: What what what do you think is causing that?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not too sure when I go into social media, I set up an account.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe so you should set up account and document you're running, and I was saying, no, I'm knocking one of those guys.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I never I never set my Instagram up to be like an influencer.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: I to be fair.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: I've had a lot of opportunities, and I'm really grateful for that.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: I never, you know, but I think I was picked to do stuff about six and stuff because I was just a runner who has lost a bit of weight and not naturally athletic, and he's running.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, not I'm just a normal person who's carries a bit of weight who can run.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like that's flipped the last two years.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: You have to be no people that say about skinny talk and stuff and wherever.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel now everybody's like ripped to bits and running, and sub three-hour marathon is um the normal, but it's not, we're only focusing in on the you know, the one you know, one percent.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I've uh you know, and again, people know this about me.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: So as somebody that's done that, I mean I've done it twice.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um people talk about this like it's something that everybody it's it's so hard, it's so so hard.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think and people like then dismiss, like you said, about throwing the medal in the bush.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: People then do it like a 330 and they're dismissing that.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I've done 16 marathons, I've been fortunate myself, and I'm like, that's quick.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: You don't realise how yeah, and then you look at the average times as well, uh, of what an actual marathon time is across the board, and it's like what's four out four thirty, something like similar.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: I I fair play to people who do sub-free, but they're not, I don't think some of these modern inferences are documenting what they've what has got into doing that.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, oh I'm they look at me.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: I've just done under marathon 255, and it's all happy, happy, happy.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm getting sponsored by this brand.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's not saying, actually, that broke me.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: That training was no.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Anybody says it's training for that sub-free thinks is easy, they lie in, but I guarantee if they broke it, I just think they're not giving people realistic.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think people are de-influencing people by that rather than Yeah, absolutely.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: And also, as well, I think it's good to I think when we like you said about the influencing thing, I think like it's common sense.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if you've got a few followers, you know how this game is played.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like people approach you, people want you to rep their stuff, and it's that's just that's life.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: And if anyone's got a problem with that, well, you're on the wrong platform because that's just life, and that's how it works.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, I've got some fantastic opportunities, but it's for stuff that I use and all this sort of business.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: I would never go and say, Oh, I'm repping something I don't use because that's pointless.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I think if you're not willing to, I think you lose.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: I what the way I look at my running performance is that's what I want to do.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I wouldn't say to somebody you have to run like you get these people if you're not running this minute mile, you're not a real runner.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's like why would that's that's what I want to do, and people you know it's some people call me mad or whatever, but it's what you want to do, and I think the problem is with with all fitness, because obviously I've been in the fitness industry for nearly 20 years, and from a white loss background myself, uh lost a load of weight.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Is that people don't stick to stuff, James?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we just need to help people to just be consistent at the thing.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: And if we start pretending that you they're giving out 255 marathons, they're really not they're really that's my biggest bag bears like you only see in the 1% of people who are finishing races these days, yeah, rather than the other 99% of finishing behind them.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's not really a fair representation anymore.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's not, and I think what I've noticed as well on there's also a weird flip side to this now, which I've noticed, which I've mentioned on a few podcasts, is this you've got this now, this slow running snobbery as well.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you've got people who like, oh, they're not they're then criticizing all the fast runners.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, that's as bad as the other way around.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: So if we no, I agree with that.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think everybody's left people, yeah, there's less people do their own pace, but I think it's just all if you look at everybody or the market, every brands now, they all look the same.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's no it's no sort of anybody's just there running for the love of it anymore.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's like what's your what's your time?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh sub-free, right?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: We'll get you in.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's all that type of thing.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: No, I don't think that's the right way to do it.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: So you've mentioned and a lot of the stuff that you post, which you know, I I like the top-off stuff as well.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: That was something that I liked.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know why?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'll tell you for why, because I still get self-conscious now because of years and years and years of being overweight, you know, taking my top off, even though I look okay, I'm not obviously I look all right now, but I still get self-conscious about doing it because of that programming of when I was big, it felt really uncomfortable.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: So you've mentioned a lot about uh mental health, and obviously share as whatever you're comfortable with here.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, what do you think that running has actually done for your mental health?
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: This thing gives you like clarity.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think that just being outdoors, you know, you know, work is stressful for all of us, but also life is life is quite life is quite hard, and then by this by this time we're running, it's like the clarity of just getting out there.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: You always always feel better after a run.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to be like 10 miles, 12 miles, even if it's a couple of miles or a mile.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: It always gives me clarity to like bash out those thoughts of like it's always makes you much a calmer person when you finish running.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: That problem doesn't seem as bad as the start of the start of the run.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas I used to train for how quick can I get, I just use it as I think I did a post yesterday.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: The more inconsistent my training is, the more inconsistent my mind is.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Not saying it's like you know, training for anything massive, but the more inconsistent I am, the more clarity it gives me.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I think running just like lets you process a lot, just being outside of my own thoughts, because sometimes we don't have time to think because we put we're working, we're always on social media and stuff.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: It feels like we haven't got time to like I leave my phone in the house and it's just you on the road, you on the road, really.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: Do you um do you think that running can ever become on the other side of that coin?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think it can ever become avoidance rather than sometimes, yeah.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think we see I think we see a lot of people who are doing these, probably some of them, some of these people just ra you see.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Some people I used to race a lot, but some people are racing twice a week, I know.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like that the oh yeah, I love running, it's good for my health.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it becomes I I'm looking thinking that's not right when you're training, when you're doing two races every week for and people's got a hundred medals for the year.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think that comes as avoidance.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: I am conscious you have to have a coke mechanism because if it got injured, what would happen then?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: That was my biggest worry.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Why you why you what are you gonna do then?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's yeah, it's it's a problem, I think, for two side.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've I've again been in the fitness industry for a long time.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen people who've been obsessed with exercise, and it's as bad as being obsessed with eating or as bad as being obsessed with because it's like there's no the problem with exercise or running in there's no leeway.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because like if you you know what I mean, if you if you're if you're doing a hundred mile weeks, which obviously and you're just doing that normally without training for a marathon, it's like, well, where's the yeah, where's the where's the leeway?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Where's the yeah, you're I think we get I think we get molded into thinking we like we train like we like elite athletes, and we're all this amateurs, really.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think sometimes we think these these people are running these amazing times, the semi-pro some of them, and they you know literally getting the the stuff given to them or they've got a lot more time on their hands, and then these people actually are pros.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's their job to run.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think all these coaching plans are really good, but I think sometimes we have to check ourselves.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're just an amateur running.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's not it's not that deep if we miss a session, or you know, we don't get the time we have, to be honest.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think when my what like when Sebastian Sware broke the world record in London, my first post was well, we're all slow runners now, aren't we?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know what I mean.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: If he's doing you know, if he's doing a marathon faster than majority of people do a half marathon, yeah, then you know we're we're all slow runners, and I think it needs context.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's just and it's it's not a nice place to be when you because I think I think one race and one marathon, I I did like at Manchester, I think I did like a 302 and I finished 1400th.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: It just you know what I mean, it just shows you, doesn't it, you that there's 1400 people that even in just in that race that I so if you start you're just gonna and I remember actually, and this is I'll share this because this this is the chat we're having.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: I remember saying to somebody they went, Oh, you're a good time, went, Yeah, but I was 1400 it's all I think I was 45, 44 when I did that.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I I I did your medal throwing moment, I totally lost context because I was judging myself against other people, younger people normally.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Or just like you said, professional runners.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very important now.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: So um where does Fudgy come from?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, literally, it literally started off as a bit of a nasty nickname back in school, right?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Quite chubby as a kid.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: I used to love fudge.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: My nan used to buy me fudge from everywhere she went, so everybody's seen me eating fudge, and it's been like a nasty name, like fatty fudge.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: But then it sort of flipped it, flipped it around then.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know I mean every you know when I got to high school, it was just like everybody's like, oh, it's cool, you've got a nickname, and I've been called Fudgy since I was probably about seven now.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: So probably probably be on my gravestone to be honest, for my love of fudge.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Who wouldn't?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: And what's your um how much of your identity do you think is tied up in that vlog fudgy the runner?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Some a lot of it, but that's why I'm quite curious what I share on uh social media.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: No one really knows like you know when I work or my family or any relationships is very much like my day-to-day, but I keep it very I think that's why I find hard now.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: When you first can do a couple of posts a week and it's fine, but I feel like now to get any level, these people are sharing like everything about their lives, you know, and getting up in the morning to what they do at night, their relationships and stuff, whereas they're not comfortable.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like I want to share about mental health and stuff and some of my things, but I keep a lot of stuff private and plaster everything.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, because you can get more likes and stuff, but I feel like people see like my day-to-day or what I tell them, like most of the funny stuff and training, it's mainly about my training, really.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: I post on Instagram, not about my you know my day-to-day, because I've got time or I just don't think anybody wanna you've got a differentiator, it's not my job.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Social media, I'm trying to promote like body conference, mental health.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: No one wants to know where I, you know, what my partner is or what I'm gonna eat in the morning, you know, anything.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, but I think it's I think when you when you're just a normal person who you know gets a few followers and we'll we'll have a chat about that in a second.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think the problem is that it escalates.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and the escalation, there's a really good, there's a really I read a really good book with this that talked about this.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's like eventually you just end up looking like a clown because you have to keep escalating to the point of I keep I have to get eyeballs on me.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: And my experience has been like I actually started to forget what I was trying to do, yeah.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: I was trying to get likes and comments and go viral instead of just well, I'm I'm trying to help people, you know.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: So yes, I like playing that game because I've got a sense of humour like you have, but I also think, well, actually, if I'm I'm trying to help people, well, funny memes are great and funny reels are great, but if you're not helping people, then that's why you're trying to do this.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, it's it's a dangerous one, that is, when you when you're yeah, if you if you if you get stuck in that escalation process.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: So has sh has sharing stuff online has it made your relationship with running better or more complicated?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think better now, because I'm obviously talking about people used to say to me, Oh, you didn't you know you didn't run that?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: I always used to say I was running a half marathon just for my head, and people be like, oh, it's just excuse because you're not running as quick.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like me sharing about, you know, I'm just normal sometimes, you know, I'm a good bit of a barely.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a show when I like I'm just getting out and running.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's made my relationship better because I'm just sharing, like trying to get out of my head, like the topist for, you know, we see everybody running on London is ripped.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: I thought, well, you know, I'm warm, I'm just gonna take my top off.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: And to be fair, I had more like positive comments from girls of like fair play, go for it rather than guys, which I found a bit.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: They were like, Yeah, we're London body comments where one guy said, mate, put your top back on.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: I you know what I mean.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: Girls are more supportive than the guys.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like me posting about the body confidence and mental health is has helped my relationship with running massively.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think I've noticed a bit of a shift on that, a bit about you.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but yeah, yeah, and it would do, I think, because you realise that actually I think um how do I put this?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's like and I think there's a common sense element to it as well.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: If you're really hot, then why not?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's you know, but I also think I've noticed online, particularly men are can be a lot worse than women.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Women are traditionally are more sort of psychological bullies than physical bullies, because obviously men would be.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that's shifting a little bit.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: And what I've noticed in my experience is men can are the tend to be the worst.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I found that like a lot of the women, I got a lot of friends with girls and they're very sportive, and some of the guys a bit like bitchy, like you know, I've had people going, Why do you want to bite your weight?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: Just go on just go and um Eat less and train more.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, all right, thanks, Lamate.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: All the negative stuff has come from other guys, which is uh quite, you know, uh quite sad, really.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: I I think what it does, and this is again, we the this is a I think this is a general problem of all of all genders.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't think it's but I think in that sense, I think what happens is we talk about a lot of the stuff with mental health.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like I had um I had Andy on here who's the he's he's the he was the first triple amputee to run the London Marathon, he runs the Standing Tall Foundation.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: We were talking about mental health, and he was we were talking about this thing about with guys, particularly, you know, the leading cause of death is suicide, and we've just had sort of suicide prevention stuff going on.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's part of the problem is the fact of it's this expression of of in essence pain because we think it's we think they're being nasty, and they are, but actually they're being nasty because of how they feel.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think the guys you see in the gym are ripped to the more sins.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: My mate said the point of the more sins skewer people who meet to the guys and look the best, not look the best, but you know what I mean, look the most aesthetic.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, sometimes because I think it's like you said about obsession, it can be and and and you're almost like a bit of a one-trick pony, because let's say you did get injured and you you you your identity becomes the gym, and then you then you've got no identity anymore.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: You can see where the mental health problems stack up because then you feel useless, and as we know, that's part of the issue.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's good that you you do that, you promote that because I think you talk to more, I think we need to talk to more people that would benefit from just going out and running versus going out and trying to hit times.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think a massive believing I got a few of my mates in there from from work running.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: They've said, Oh my god, uh, how it makes you feel afterwards.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think no one talks about it anymore.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: You said it's all about the angle.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's your time?
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: You finish a race, like I did the big half of a day.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just run it with our running community, and someone's like, Oh, you know, what did you run?
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: What's your time?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: I told them, Oh, you're quicker than that though, aren't you?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, Do you know what I mean?
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's a bit Yeah, it's like the classic, isn't it?
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: On the on the weight loss side, it's like the person that's like making loads of progress, you know, doing loads of steps, exercising all the time, you know, improving the mental health, blah blah blah.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then the first question is, well, how much weight have you lost?
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because it's that identity thing, and it's a bit of a it's a it is a bit of a shame.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: So do you feel because of the following now and because of that, do you feel pressure?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I feel I think definitely, uh I think I feel if I do a race now, I have to run a certain time or do a you know what I mean?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: I feel a bit more pressure because in the past it was always about being quick.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously, vanity takes over.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: If I can get a PB, I used to get so many likes for that, you know what I mean?
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: Medal Monday of PB, blah blah blah.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Get all the people commenting, DMing, and all that type of stuff.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's for vanity, and it does put brear pressure.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm starting to get away from that now, but I I was in New York, I did a marathon last year, and I my trainer fell away a bit.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, right, I'm just gonna go to New York and enjoy it.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: But then you're 15 miles in struggling, and your head takes over, oh my god, I can't post about me doing you know, it's uh an overflow marathon.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: I felt but I was like, James, what you what are you all about?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, somebody's 405, not my quickest by far, but that's somebody's you know, dream.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, right, get out of your head, you're in the middle of New York now, just finish this run or wherever and just enjoy the race.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, your ego does it does.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: I was in big half last week, and I'm like, oh my god, I can't pause the bang closer to hours.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Still comes in my head because the pressure of posting about it.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, and it again, but it I think what's important there is you identifying that.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like when you suppress that and you don't, it's that that's when you get injured because you're constantly trying to chase something that potentially you're not in the right because if you're as you know, as a runner, if you're not in the right headspace, yeah, and you try and push it physically, something's gonna go, something's gonna give there.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: But but also I need to get I used to train say 55 kilometers a week, right?
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's running, you know, round 130.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I don't do near that now.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: So how do you expect to be 10 years older to half the miles and get the same result?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's stupid.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: To tell your head that it's like if I train like I did before, yeah, I've I've more chance of running when I used to, but I do other sorts of training out like boot camps and stuff.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: Jimmy don't do as much running as I used to.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: I run a lot, but not as much as I did when I was running those times.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, you I think you just you you're talking to how a lot of people feel.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because how you know, most of the most of people running a marathon, most of them, probably high percentage, would have had your 15-mile experience.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, not the people at the front.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: They that they're that that's not, but the people most people would have that wobble psychologically, physically.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's that's why it's important.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: So what what is it about like how many marathons have you done particularly?
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I've done eight to eight marathons.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: And what is it that keeps pulling you back to the events?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: Because you do quite a few, don't you?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, half marathon's my favorite distance.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: Me too, actually, funny enough.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just love it because you can train hard, it doesn't feel like it's impacting your life that much, and the races, you know, get to 10 miles and you can hang it on.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't know, marathon is I don't know.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's like sort of I don't know, I hate the marathon distance, and people say you've done eight marathons.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I don't know how.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think like when I first started running, you do 5k, then you go to 10k, then you do a half, they did the marathon.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then my first marathon was Manchester, Manchester Marathon, and I did that, and I was like, Oh my god, because the thing is you jump up for 10k to half marathon, it's not too bad, but the jump from a half marathon to a marathon.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of my friends have just started running and you know, experienced that, and I just did it.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Oh my god, I hate this.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: But then you see all the marathon majors, and you think, Oh, I want to do a New York marathon, I want to do a London marathon, I want to do Paris.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't just seem to sign up and think, I won't be that bad, you know what I mean?
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: I just keep doing them.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a challenge because you know I can do a half marathon.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think by marathon I have never really nailed, so it's always a bit of a nemesis, do you know what I mean?
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it's always that thing of maybe I can nail this marathon block, you know, maybe I can, you know what I mean?
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Tame tame it.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna have to ask, what does what does nailing it look like for you?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think I could do a half marathon, I enjoy it.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: I've never enjoyed a marathon.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's that sort of you know, even the half marathons, you think, geez, that was hot.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: I enjoy it.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: I've never enjoyed a marathon.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: The whole the whole training, you know, the the race, the aftermath.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: I've never really enjoyed it.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: The only thing I enjoy is being in the pub afterwards, you know.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I've never really enjoyed any of the process.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: With a half marathon, I enjoy it, but marathon, I just don't enjoy the process of it.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right, okay, okay.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think is that are there any issues with marathons that you want to you want to scratch?
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like um, I was supposed to do Sydney marathon this year, and it got to the point I can't really afford this.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the thing with um Instagram these days, people not talking about how expensive is races.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sitting there thinking, I can't afford to spend another five grand on Sydney.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: And when I got in, I was like, brilliant, but right, I'm not just chasing a dream of maxing a credit card out just to run a marathon.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: But New York, New York was a bigger hitch for me.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: I I love New York.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um I used to work for Virgin, so I used to fly there a lot.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I've ticked that, but also it's probably Chicago isn't the other one.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: I got a couple of itches.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: I just love America, I just love the American crowds and stuff.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that gives me um but the thought of me doing a hot and marathon anywhere else in the UK is not really appetizing, but to go to Chicago and yeah, yeah, that's a big one for me.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's yeah, it's kind of I kind of get that.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you're gonna if you're gonna go go big, you know what I mean, or or yeah, go big.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you've highlighted a really important and that's really important, I think, for a lot of people listen out.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: I want to it's good you've mentioned that because I talk about I want to talk about this.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: You people forget the cost, they think they see this like if someone's done if like though I saw something like that.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: There was a guy who's done the seven he'd he's done six or seven majors six or seven times.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, now you are a very independently wealthy person to be able to do that.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've I mean I mean I live in Birmingham and doing London's expensive, yeah.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, going down.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that I had to pay, like, especially if you're getting late, I had to pay a ridiculous amount of money for this bed sitting bloody you know, East London.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because like that's all that was available, and that was you know, it was fine, but like people forget the logistics of it all.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, how much it actually costs.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'd love to do Sydney, but that's not they're not giving well.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: I I think the entry was a 200 um pound, but before I'll do it, and I I got in the day I was flying to New York, so I was like, Yeah, buzz it.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then you were actually working out the cost of the flights and accommodation.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, geez, I can't afford that.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: And you see all these like I've been gifted brand stuff, I'm not trying to be bitter, but these people going on flying to Sydney, they're either you know, they're either getting brand gifts, so they're very wealthy.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's not really all they all they're saving for a trip of a lifetime, but yeah, people like that guy who's done.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think I know the guy you want about, he's you know, he's done a crazy amount of money must even to do one.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think New York costs probably all in with flights and spending money over£3,000.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: Easy, yeah, easy, yeah.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: Easy, easy, yeah.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think people and that's one thing I want to I want to just say on that, because it can get to all of us that can.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because I, you know, being I I'm quite fortunate.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: I've done London a couple of times and I've done Paris and things like that, but you know, I haven't got the means to go and do I'd love to do the majors, but like it's not you, it's not you can't I won't go off on this because it's your interview, but I've done loads of videos on this.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: You can't judge your marathon experience on the fact that you're not going to get into the majors because chances are you're not going to, and the if you do, unless you are living in the country where the run is, it's going to cost you a pretty penny.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: And and what we see on social media is these people who've got millions of followers, brilliant, great, they're getting paid to go and do it.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: They're just given a spot and they're and that's just the way it goes.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not whilst fair play to them, but like you said, I I don't personally agree with the oh, look at me, I've got into this marathon.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you've been given a place, so it's not like you've I don't like the word earned it, but it doesn't give it to the normal person who potentially would want to go and do a marathon a true reflection of potentially what the marathon experience is.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but also think you don't have to run New York to be a good, you know, to have a good running experience.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like oh, Manchester's brilliant.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: I've done Manchester four times.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant run, brilliant race, brilliant, absolutely amazing race.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the other thing off on a tangent as well.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think running is slightly becoming accessible with the money as well.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: I had a chat to my mate about this.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: How much the running fashion, like, don't get me wrong, I love running a good running kit, but the amount of money of you know, the shoes, the kit, and the braces, like New York, my kit probably cost 500 quid.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean I bought on trainers and some bandit stuff, and you're thinking you're looking back on Jesus, but more than I do?
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think it's a bit can put people off running.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because before, when I first started, you go to Sports Direct, get a caramel t-shirt, pair of 30 quid trainers, and there was nothing said.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: Then now you have to have the carbon plates, then a slow pair of running shoes, then you've got this.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's quite overwhelming, I think, if you start running now.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: I was looking earlier because I you know you get emails from people like you know, this new trainer's out, and I looked at it, and I would I'm I'm I'm I am I am staunch on this.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I class myself as a I'm not D I would be in the D good club runner character category, that's where I am, so probably somewhere in the middle.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm okay.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: You'd never catch me spending£300 on a pair of trainers.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it I've done a podcast on this, I don't think it's necessary.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: Number one, first and foremost, even on Over and Sub 3, I don't think it's necessary.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: And secondly, um I just think that we we get into this place where we don't actually test things out, we don't go, well, could I just get by with a pair of eight?
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean 80 quid nowadays say it's cheap.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: And if you go hunt for bargains, and I'll I'll shout, I don't, I'll get no, I get nothing from this.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: There's a website called Run for It, and they've always got really good offers on.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I will go, I think I got my last two pairs of trainers for 200 pounds for two pairs.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm not I I just can't, I don't think it's worth it, and I just I can't do it.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't all my all my PPs are not in carbon related trainers as well.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it's never owned a pair, James.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: Never owned a pair.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because and Archer did a podcast on this, and when you do a bit of research, actually, there's a big correlation between um super shoes and injuries, yeah.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: And and there's a really weird primary primary or secondary reason for it, it's because people think they're faster than they are.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: So they go flying out with these shoes on and end up getting hurt.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's good marketing, isn't it?
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if you yeah, I mean, and you forget that like and again, because we're tangent in some are some of the when people started trolling Sebastian Soare and you know Kajoko and the guys who finished in the subfit, it's because of the trainers.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: They were doing 201, 202, so it's not like they were going from 230 to you know 159.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's like they've got it's but at that level it's incremental gains.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: But people like, oh, it's the trainers.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, does that mean then all of a sudden I'm gonna run a 230 marathon because I've got a pair of 400 pounds?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is crazy the price of stuff.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: Crazy.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: Has your you mentioned obviously you the start of your running journey and obviously, you know, 10 years down the road or whatever it is.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: Has your relationship with running changed as you've got older?
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think definitely.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think at the start of it, I didn't really care about how he made me, you know, how he made me feel mentally.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: It was all about how quick I could get.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: And now it's like how important it is for me to function day to day, week to week.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: At the start, you just didn't really care.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, you're buzzing after a race, but you never really thought about the endorphins or how we made you feel.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it definitely is I sort of enjoy like how it makes me feel afterwards.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I know getting out there Sundays is hard, but you know, as soon as you finish that run, you're gonna feel like 100% better than before.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what uh the relationship has trained for me.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely when did you when did the increase in um sort of followers and interest in you start happening?
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: Was there a particular moment?
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: Was there something you did specifically or I think it was just at the start?
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think um start of my journey.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think I posted a lot about transformation, probably like yourself, about how much weight I lost.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: I've gone from you know running nor miles to running a sudden 90 half marathons.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think people were quite key, and also I think people all my thing has been like running roast dinners.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: Even though I was running quick, I was still having lots of drinks and having roast dinners, and I think people like the authenticity for me.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I've changed that.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: So even when I was running those times, I was after the race having lots of guinness, and I think people like said it was very relatable because you train hard, but you have a got you know, you go out for dinner, you have drinks with your friends, you party, you go to raves.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think people like that.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: So round about a couple of years I've got people that see me running these times, but also see me in Ibefa for a week or go into my army for a do you know what I mean?
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's the authenticity, yeah.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's why you still get followers.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: People sort of can relate to me doing a quick 5k wherever race and having a Guinness after, do you know what I mean?
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's I think people can relate that.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think my page is relatable.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think I always say anybody if I can do it, anybody else can do it.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I was not a most athletic person in school or anything.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think if I could run those timers or do these marathons, anybody else, and that's where I try to pass on, really.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned raving, obviously.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm well, I'm 49.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I you know I I was uh late 90s, early 2000s sort of uh uh teen, early 20s.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: So that was I was I was into my partying back then when when you know again we we we we we always think that our time was the best time, but you know, I do I do I do generally think I was blessed at a time for that sort of stuff.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: Talk to me about the raving then, James.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: I just I just brought up in trans music when I squelt in the early 12th, I was like 15 in the old trance music.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I used to be watching, remember those programs, club reps and used to see him go in Fragaraki, and I'd be friends and see all the music, and he'd be like, I really want to go into those clubs and see those his music, and then just got into it.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: I've been to it, beef like 20 times.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: I've met friends through music, and we just go once a year, and I just love the music, and another thing, how music makes you feel as well.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's the closest thing.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: I love music.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: So when I can't run even go for walk of music, I just love house music, techno, trance.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because it's some it's been some stuff about the how that makes you feel of your mental health as well.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: Just one girl who talks about how the music beats your heart, makes you it's loads of stuff about it as well, how that can affect your mood and stuff.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think, yeah, I think if you look at it's funny enough, I was I was trying to something happened.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: I was I was putting a reel up or a story up, and there was some trending, there was something that came up as a trending, I think it was Tiesto, and I was thinking, actually, it's funny, isn't it?
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because like a lot of music brings out sort of I think negativity in you, like the angry hip-hop or the angry heavy metal or whatever.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: And there's the again, if you want to listen to that music, that's fine.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: But I think with that type of genre of music, I d I I think it's it's it's very uplifting, isn't it?
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because you associate it with yeah, it's and especially like running with that music as well.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I just love that's my sort of hobby, my passion's music, and listen to to music as well.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, that's my sort of other coke mechanism as well.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, check a good set on your iPod or something if you can't train that day or something.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that massively helps me as well.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: But I love a good rave still going.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think when I was working in one job, my boss is probably my old boss is probably your age and he's out raving still now because he loves trans music and stuff.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, you know what I mean?
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it shows that music, you know, you can go to the oasis, you don't get judged.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: But if you go to a rave and you're 30 yard, you're like, you're a bit so old to go to a rave now, aren't you?
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you go to Oasis if you're 50 or 60, wouldn't you?
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: As a stereotypical thing, by the way I just have so because music and if you look at long events, uh house music and raving together, I think defected the record label are doing a run club now.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I show us a running and music are trying to get together as well.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, you're you're doing uh your own no, it's just it's this brand called Defected Records, big record company, and they start with they're doing run clubs now.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, brilliant.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, is that national?
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think it's in London, they're going to do a national because obviously up north is quite and Burmland's got a good scene and stuff, but yeah, they start it shows that they're having that music of a speaker running through London.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's a big big record label that want to try to tap into running as well.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's a DJ called Diplo, he's a big DJ has diplo running.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Diplo, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: He's a big runner.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: Is he isn't he the is he the really good runner, Diplo?
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't he the one who's done what's doing marathon?
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: I was in IB for a few weeks ago and I've got uh brand clubs and I beef for now.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh okay.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it just shows like you know how people try to incorporate the the two, really.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: What are your go-to tunes then for running?
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: What are your favorites?
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm a big Swedish house mafia fan jump.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, yeah, okay.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was probably my E-Run and got got to meet them a few times.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's really good.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I love you, Cool.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I just love anything uh EDM really, any like the VTG and stuff.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: I love big upbeat music and stuff as well.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: When you're on Spotify, someone pops like, oh, that song's banging.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: So my playlist strains all the time, but I I like to have a lot of EDM high tempo stuff.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: Good, awesome.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: So let's say, right, with all this journey you've been on, let's say we took away social media tomorrow and all the bits and bobs and everything, would you still run?
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 100%.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: Funny used to say, I was messaging a guy yesterday, he put something up in his story about that.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, because he's got a bit miffed of what's going on.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: He said, All if it was no brandy at the end of this, would people be running and setting up communities or still running?
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, I would.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe at the start I wouldn't have because I would have thought, what am I gonna post about on social media?
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'd I'd run in to big myself up, but since COVID, how has made me feel mentally and physically?
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: I I wouldn't, I would be definitely running every day.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: So final couple of questions for me.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: I I I ask, I always ask these two questions at the end of every interview.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: The first one is if there is somebody out there, so how how let's talk if you don't mind.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: How how heavy how heavy were you when you started running?
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, to be honest, I lost most of my weight before I started running, but two years before I think I weigh I think I weighed a 12 and a half stone.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: I was probably close to 16 stone.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why so you look so four stone top to bottom, yeah?
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so for everybody listening, that is£56.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: And for those of you in the southern hemisphere, that's£25 kilos.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: Just in case.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um what would you say to somebody who sort of two questions in one?
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: So somebody who's potentially wants to start a running journey, maybe in a similar situation to you, perhaps a bit overweight, perhaps not feeling great about themselves, wants to start a running journey.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say to them?
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: And what would you say to somebody who's a quote unquote normal person who potentially wants to do that and post about their journey?
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say to them?
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a uh thing I've got into the guys at work, for example, is how I promote how much of a community running can be.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: So find a community.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's quite a lot of them now.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: I always say to people I'm big advocate for park run, yes, don't get to do much anymore, but that would be all that's always my first thing to people starting running.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: Go to your local park run, you know, do count and couch to 5k has basically changed everything, I think.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I always say because people think you just go to park run and run 5k, it takes a long time, you know.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I always say go couch to 5k app, walk run, walk run, don't be scared because people think they have to run all the way.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I always say to people, take it slow, couch to 5k, go to park run, find a local running communities.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're quite fortunate now, there's a lot of running communities, even Burnham's got a really good running scene as well.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like you know, it's a lot of inclusive one clubs as well.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so my thing is get involved in the community.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a gym, right?
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: Join a gym and get involved in the community.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: And for people who want to sort of post stuff, the biggest thing people like is authenticity.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: Be author, you know, if you've got an athletic background, post about that.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you start in post upad, everybody's journey is different.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think authenticity is the best way.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like I could easily go, right, I'm gonna get my head down for five months and go really quick and get more followers, but that's not really what I'm about anymore.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: Authenticity is a big thing for me.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: If people are starting a social media account, is be authentic and don't forget the journey.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody's journey is different.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: Are you proud of that as well?
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: What a lovely message.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: And my final question, James, which is my philosophical question I ask everybody, is how has this whole experience changed you?
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: Massively, I think.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's brought I think it's made me more confident.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: And new experiences, the amount of experiences I've done for running be very lucky.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like 7-4, something was like you know, a 12-year-old guy, you'd run New York marathon, go out there on your own and run New York Marathon.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: Crazy, do you know what I mean?
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you'd be able to go to Barcelona and run a marathon and on your own and go to Paris and wherever and and do all this type of stuff and meet new people.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a part of the journey, experiences and the community has brought me so maybe more confident.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Made new friends who would necessarily would never have met if you never met running.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for that.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: What's next for you then, James?
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think um it got a bit fire in my belly after the big half.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: I went got Barcelona next year, half marathon and Lisbon.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just training for them, really, and see what I can do.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: I I quite want a a winter of um space structured training, so I'm looking forward to getting a bit more structure in my plan and just follow a plan, really, see what happens in Barcelona.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I gotta have a goal so that those two races get started next year, something to aim for.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, awesome.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: Anything else from you?
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: No, just thanks for having me and hopefully you know, you know, anybody can run it from I can do it, anybody can do it.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: Running doesn't have to be marathons, it can be 5k, 1k.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's all about how it makes you feel.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: Lovely.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: And if people want to find out more about you and your journey, James, I mean I didn't mention it at the start, we'll do it again.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: Where can they find you online?
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just give me a follow on the fudgie, and you'll see a lot of uh content around Guinness and running so and some raving.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: What's not to like, what's not to like, folks.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's not to like.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks again to James for coming on.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate him taking the time to talk to me.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very inspirational interview, and hopefully uh that will help some people out there to, you know, number one, start their journey and potentially number two, not be uh afraid of being authentic and posting um their journey because, again, from my own point of view as well, I think we do need a bit more of that.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: We need a bit more just authenticity, just real people just saying this is what it's like and these this is what we have to do to do this.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because running is a big deal, um, especially if you do more of it.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: You there's a lot of logistics that go into it, and uh, there's a lot of people out there who have to do a lot of things to make it work.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, we we need more positive messages like that.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I appreciate James being as honest and vulnerable with me as he has been today.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, so if you're brand new to the podcast, don't forget to like like and don't forget to subscribe to the podcast right, wherever you get your podcast from.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's Apple or Spotify.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: If you are a regular listener, please drop me a review on each of those platforms.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: It does really, really help me and share this podcast with your friends.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to follow me, you can at 12 months to marathon.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: And if you go to the link in my bio, you can join my free running community for the over 35s, where we can take you away from the noise of social media and we can share some experiences over there.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: So, thank you very much again to James.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it very much indeed, and I will speak to you all again very soon indeed.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks very much, James.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: Cheers.