Latest / Between Two Chairs - Demystifying Commercial Real Estate / The Kindergarten Series - I Am Courage, A Book on Resilience

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The Kindergarten Series - I Am Courage, A Book on Resilience · Between Two Chairs - Demystifying Commercial Real Estate

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Welcome to Between Two Chairs,
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demystifying commercial real estate,
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the podcast that brings you the latest insights and
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trends on the South Florida commercial real estate market.
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With your hosts, Fernando Adonisibia Jr. and Jennifer Wallman.
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In each episode, we dive into the world of
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commercial real estate and break down
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complex concepts to make them accessible for everyone.
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Whether you're a real estate professional,
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a curious investor, or just interested in
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the South Florida market in general,
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Between Two Chairs is the podcast for you.
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So pull up a chair and join us.
0:35
Welcome everybody to another episode of Between Two Chairs.
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My name is Fernando Adonisibia Jr.
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Thank you as always for joining us.
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And with me is the ever effervescent and energetic.
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And courageous.
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Overall amazing.
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And courageous.
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Yes, Jennifer Wallman.
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Hi Jennifer, say hi.
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Hello, hi.
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I didn't follow instructions, hi.
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So you mentioned courage.
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Yes.
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And we have done this really interesting thing
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since we started the podcast,
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which is we have this kindergarten reading series.
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And I want to invite all the boys and girls who are listening,
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all the humans from around the world,
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pull up a chair and listen as we discuss a book
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written by Susan Verdi called I Am Courage.
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A book of resilience.
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A book of resilience.
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Perfect timing, Jennifer.
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A book of resilience.
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I like that we've been doing this and I like
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out of left field ideas that are connected
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because I think so many things in life are interconnected.
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And I think it's great that we get to dive
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into some of these things.
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And a lot of it for you guys that are listening
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is grows out of this idea that everything
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that I ever needed to know, I learned in kindergarten.
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And so Jennifer and I are big believers in that.
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And because she is an amazing grandmother,
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I know that she is totally engulfed in the world
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of kids books at this stage.
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I think it's wonderful.
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So how do we go about this?
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So confession, the reason I have these books
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is not because I'm a grandma.
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Really?
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It's because I believe in simple messaging
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and keep it simple, stupid.
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And this keeps my attention.
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And so I find real estate applicable
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in just about every children's book.
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And this is a lot easier reading than some
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of the big, heavy books.
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So yeah.
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I wish I could say it was because of my grandkids.
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But what you really didn't have to tell anybody.
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We would have just assumed.
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You didn't have to disclose that you're walking in a bookstore.
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Let's say we're back in 1990 and you're actually
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buying it from a bookstore.
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But you probably are.
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I did.
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Yeah, exactly.
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You're walking in a bookstore.
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Books and books.
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Books and books.
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I love books and books.
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That's so great.
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All right.
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So let's dive into the book.
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Do you want to read it?
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How do you want to go through it?
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So we've spent all month talking about how
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to get rid of scary.
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Right?
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It's October, scary month.
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We do these podcasts, these episodes all the time.
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And so sometimes we try to stick with the theme.
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Usually we don't.
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But this month it's kind of been scary from busting
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real estate myths to talking to attorneys,
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to trying to avoid scary issues that might come up
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during a transaction.
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And the reason I thought of this book
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is because we always talk about fear
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and how fear holds us back and fear cells.
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And I think we mentioned in our C5 CCIM episode
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when we were doing a recap that we're addicted to fear.
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That was Gunnar Branson who said, we're addicted to fear.
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We know that fear cells and everything else.
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So I thought instead of talking about fear,
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let's talk how to address fear.
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And so I find strong messages in children's stories.
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And the message on the front of this flap
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just really, really resonated with me.
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So I'm going to read it to you.
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It says, when we picture someone brave,
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we might think they're fearless.
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But real courage comes from feeling scared and facing
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what challenges us anyway.
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When our minds tell us I can't, we
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can look inside ourselves and find the strength to say,
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yes, I can.
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And to me, this resonated so much because I've
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told this story before.
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But when I first wanted to get into investing,
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I had already been involved in real estate
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for, I want to say, about 10 years.
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And I can't remember if I was already an LP in the syndication
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deal.
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I don't think I was.
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I think my husband and I were trying to do this on our own.
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And God bless my husband, Carlos.
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He's always supportive.
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And he's way more fearless than I am.
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And I let fear get the better of me.
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I imagined us living under I-95 and me bankrupting us.
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And I was like, it was ridiculous.
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There was no rational explanation for what I was doing.
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And I got out of a house that we had bought
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at the height of the recession in Coral Gables.
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Beautiful area.
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We got it for, we were under contract for $250, I think,
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maybe $240.
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I probably could have gotten it for about $210
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after inspections because it showed some pretty big things.
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I mean, there were subterranean termites, which
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are scary in and of themselves.
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So I lost that deal.
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And I was getting ready to lose another deal when I finally
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did the phone a friend.
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And this book, just in very simple ways,
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tells us how to dig deep and find the courage
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to get through that.
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And this year has been a super challenging year
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for a lot of people, period, whether it's in real estate
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or not, whether it's the economy, high interest rates,
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the geopolitical landscapes, the horrible weather.
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We've had fires, floods, hurricanes, and all of those
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things, and the uncertainty cause uncertainty, fear,
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and desperation.
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And there was another book that we did this on, which
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was, oh, the places you'll go.
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And they talk about the waiting room.
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And I think a lot of people get stuck in the waiting room
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because of fear.
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And how do you get unstuck?
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How do you find the courage to get out?
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So this book talks about digging deep into your courage,
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trusting your gut, accepting the challenge,
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and finding the strength to go on.
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We wear so many hats in our day-to-day life
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and in our professional life as well.
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And a lot of times when we're processing information,
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you and I, I mean, we're thinking about, obviously,
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our families, the people that we know,
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the people that we care about, our friends, our colleagues.
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We also always are thinking about the consumer,
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and we're thinking also about the broker,
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and helping the broker help the consumer,
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and so I'm always trying to draw lessons from something
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as simple as this.
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And if I may read just a couple of the sections, right?
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It's really at the start of the book,
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but it'll lead to a question that I have for you.
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This is the beginning of the book.
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When there are challenges in front of me,
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when I feel unstable, like I might fall,
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and I think about turning back or giving up,
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when my mind tells me I can't, I look inside myself
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and find the strength that lives deep down,
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and I tell my mind, yes, I can.
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I have faith in what's possible.
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I accept the challenge and keep on going.
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And this is where it's the first thing,
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because where do people draw the faith in what's possible?
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It's such an optimistic phraseology, right?
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I have faith in what's possible.
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I accept the challenge and keep on going.
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And of course, there's an illustration of this child
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who is in a bike about to cross a bridge,
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but we don't know where that bridge leads to, right?
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And it's dark.
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And it's dark and it is scary,
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but I wanted to ask you that,
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where do people really find the faith in what's possible?
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Because oftentimes, as you mentioned,
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fear is predominant in our daily lives, right?
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So it really is as simple as it is stated,
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it is a deep question about having faith in what's possible.
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Well, and I think finding that faith
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takes different forms.
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There was a game show, I can't remember what it was,
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but they would throw out lifelines,
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like if you didn't know the question.
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It was phone a friend, I can't remember what,
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I can't remember what.
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So guess what my faith is and how I find it.
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You're talking about the millionaire.
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I have no idea, I just remember,
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I mean, I didn't watch the show.
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Jessica, what was that show?
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Who wants to be a millionaire?
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Who wants to be a millionaire?
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Yeah, and what were the three things?
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Oh, it was 50-50, so they will take 50%
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of the questions out.
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It was ask the audience.
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Okay, and phone a friend.
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Well, I remembered phone a friend.
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So that's how I dig deep.
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Like in the situation that I told you about the house
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when I was getting ready to pull out of our second investment,
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and I was kicking myself, because I knew.
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My brain knew what was going on.
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My brain knew that I had done the research,
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that it was a great buy, that it was a great location.
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I'd done everything right,
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but, and my gut was telling me it was good,
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and my brain was like, run away, run away,
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you're gonna bankrupt your family.
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And so, I trusted in my gut,
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but I knew that I needed help getting out of my brain,
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and I phoned a friend who had the money to bail me out
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so that I wouldn't live under I-95,
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even though that was never a possibility,
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because I was only gonna be on the hook
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for the down payment.
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Like it was so ridiculous, and so I phoned a friend,
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and I think that's what's so great about,
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so wherever you find faith, it can be in your church,
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it can be in your family, it can be in your friends,
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it could be in people you know in the industry,
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and that's why I love this women in real estate group
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that Beth created, because the theory
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and the philosophy there, and it was actually based
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on a conversation that she and I had about fear,
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because Beth had a similar experience
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when she was starting her investment,
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her own personal investments,
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even though she had been in the industry
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and been killing it as a landlord and tenant rep
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for a gazillion years and knew the markets,
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and the fear got in, and she lost a deal.
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So we were talking about that,
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and so like in this case, she created this event
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for women who want to invest, but have fear
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to have the support group that they need
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to get beyond that and to help build courage,
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so I don't know if that answered your question,
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how about you?
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You know what I find really interesting here
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is that faith in what's possible,
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it's I think something that permeates
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through every entrepreneur.
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You start on a journey having faith in the possibility.
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The phraseology here is incredibly smart,
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because it's not I have faith
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that everything is gonna be okay.
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It's not I have faith that we'll figure it out.
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It's having faith in that there is a possibility out there
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that draws us to cross that bridge in the dark, right?
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And the following sentence,
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I accept the challenge and keep on going,
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and it's that idea of you have faith
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in the good things that you can create
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and the possibilities of this endeavor, right?
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But you have no guarantee,
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and we both live in the fact that we predominantly
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focus on the fear and the negativity
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and not only what gets fed at us,
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but the things that we worry about,
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but at the same time,
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there's something that gets you up every morning to say,
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I'm going to go attack that.
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I have no idea how it's gonna work out,
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but I love this sentence of I accept the challenge, right?
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And so, you know, like you mentioned at the beginning,
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and this is something that everyone has heard,
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courage is not the absence of fear
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is what you do in spite of it, right?
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And so, I love that idea of I'm just gonna keep going.
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And we've seen and we've done shows,
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podcast episodes where we've discussed this, you know,
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sometimes all you gotta do is just keep going,
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keep working, and all of a sudden,
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things begin to turn around,
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whether it's in your business, in your personal life,
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in your career, and the choices that you make
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have to be informed, I think,
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by having that faith in the possible.
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I agree, and look at what we did, right?
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Look at the big jump that we took,
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like two, almost, well, a year and a half ago,
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and left what we were doing, changed it up,
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and it was because of what's possible, right?
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We were scared, we were nervous, we were unsure,
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we don't know exactly what the outcome's gonna look like,
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but we believed in the possibility of what could be,
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so we took that jump, right?
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And, you know, again, we've stated before,
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you have to be comfortable being uncomfortable,
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and I think courage also gives you that, and so...
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Another lesson that I thought was really interesting is,
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as you read the story, there's a sentence,
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and this is something that I think it's important,
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is I can trust what my gut is telling me.
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Now, there's so many ways to break this down,
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because it's interesting,
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how do you know if your gut has the right instinct?
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You know, like what you instinctively feel,
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like my gut is telling me this is gonna be good,
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or this is gonna be bad,
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but there is an evolution in which you have
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to trust your gut, and when I read this,
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what I thought about was, oftentimes,
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especially when people enter a new industry,
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or let's say there's a new agent
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that is coming in right to the industry,
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it's very simple to begin to look at the process,
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to be bigger than what it is,
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meaning that, obviously, every industry has their own jargon,
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they have their own procedures,
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they have their own laws that they have to follow,
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their regulations, all those things.
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Sometimes we overcomplicate that situation,
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and at the end of the day, the agent is always working
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with another human being, right?
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And when you're working with a client and a human being,
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there are certain things that you viscerally feel
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in your gut, this doesn't feel right,
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and then some of those agents will come back to us
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and say, well, what does the law say?
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How do I handle this, and how do I address this?
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And I think that you begin to kind of give way
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of relying on your gut, I think that that part
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should never be removed.
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You could call it gut, you could call it common sense,
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you could call it a spidey sense, your instinct,
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whatever it is, but there is something there
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that I think you have to endeavor to develop
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and to continue to test so that you can continue to trust it.
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I agree, and I always tell my kids
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that when they're not sure, I'm like, look, write it down,
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write down everything that's in your brain
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because there's two parts of fear
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and there's two parts of courage, right?
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To me, there's gut or heart and head,
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and head is where the crazy is, right?
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The brain is crazy, it's a wild horse,
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It's crazy, it's a wild horse, they have that saying in Spanish,
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they have that saying in Spanish,
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it's crazy, it's crazy.
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Is this fear real or am I making it up?
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I'm writing this down.
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Is this fear real or am I making it up?
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What am I really afraid of?
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And because if you're honest with yourself half the time, or I don't know if it's half
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the time or whatever I haven't done the math because that's cerebral, you're afraid of
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succeeding or you're afraid of failure.
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And so then if you look at either your success or your failure in a different way, that might
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be all you need to get through it.
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Another one, another question I ask is if I don't do this, how am I going to feel?
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And again, it could be I'm going to feel great because what a relief, it's off my shoulders,
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you know, I'm like, it didn't feel good, or it's going to be like I'm going to feel horrible,
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I'm going to feel like I lost an opportunity.
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And then those leave, but those are my three, you know me three, three is about all I can
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handle.
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Those are my three main questions.
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And then depending on how my gut reaction, you have to be really in tune to your gut
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reaction.
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How does it?
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Jessica, I need you to block out one hour on my schedule this afternoon.
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I got to ask myself three important questions later on.
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Jessica says just an hour.
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Well, that's wonderful.
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I appreciate that because, you know, sometimes, you know, it's easy to just to say, well,
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you could go with your gut, but it's like the quieting of the mind and it really, you're
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right that, you know, the heart, the mind, sometimes they're not all in concert.
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And so, you know, it's really interesting.
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You know, I thought that was great.
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Thank you.
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Those are three great questions and I will be using it.
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He really did write them down.
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I did guys, I did.
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The other thing, and you kind of alluded to it already, but I thought was a third big
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lesson in the story is I can lean on those around me.
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I am not afraid to ask for support.
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And that I thought was incredibly powerful as well because, you know, oftentimes when
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we have this discussion about our business, we say it's impossible for you to know everything
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about everything.
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And when you're in commercial real estate, because you have multiple asset classes, there's
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so many ways to become a hyper, hyper expert on every little thing.
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You know, we just did a podcast where I mentioned in the C5 conference about this logistics expert
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and, you know, how drilled down that information is, which is infinitely interesting, but the
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reality is that unless that's all you're going to focus on, you will never develop that exact
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expertise.
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But when your clients come to you, they come to you because they need, you know, because,
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you know, they trust you, right?
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They want your guidance.
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And so, it's more important not to be the person that knows everything because that's
20:27
not possible than to be the one who knows where to go for the right answers.
20:31
Right.
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And so I think support, and I know in the case of the book, they're talking about supporting
20:38
you and being courageous, right?
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But I think support is incredibly impactful.
20:42
It's, I know the story and you've told the story before about that investment that you
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made.
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And I know that you may not have needed it from a logical perspective that, okay, I know
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I really need this or you didn't need for that person to sign a contract or for to give
20:56
you this guarantee or to put...
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He didn't even know what my question was.
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You didn't even know what you were asking, correct?
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You just ask him, you know, will you ever, will you take care of him?
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Will you be there for me if I screw up?
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Correct.
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And just that...
21:09
That by itself created that.
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And then everything that you mentioned about Beth and what she has created has been a support
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group in every, in every, in every instance, whether it's the independent retailer awards,
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you know, where now all these independent retailers are getting to know each other,
21:23
they support each other.
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She brings in all of the brokerage community or it is the book club or it is the investment,
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the women investment, you know, conference.
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I think all of those things are that layer of support where we've had the honor of being
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on stage in different things.
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Like I've always felt that I'm not alone because the support has been there from, from the
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beginning.
21:45
So I think that that is a great lesson in the book is that you don't have to be courageous
21:48
by yourself.
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Because that courage is fed by the people that you have surrounding you, which is why
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it's important to choose the right people, right?
21:59
Agreed.
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And at the end of the book, the author's note states, she does, you know, author's note
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and she teaches breathing and yoga poses, etc.
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But it says, although what scares us may be different, fear is something we all feel and
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we don't need to hide it.
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It's okay to talk about fear.
22:16
This is my favorite part.
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Fear is a place for opportunity and growth.
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Fear is a place for opportunity and growth.
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So as anybody listening starts planning for 2025.
22:29
So it's like the obstacles the way.
22:31
Exactly.
22:32
It's all the same things that we have discussed.
22:35
Exactly.
22:36
And so as you start planning for 2025, think about what you're scared of, how much further
22:41
you could grow in 2025 if you face that fear.
22:45
Come up with a plan, including who your support group's going to be to help get you through
22:50
or over your fear because right now, and this is, I'm taking this quote directly from Spencer
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Levy, who we spoke about in a previous episode regarding his presentation with Gunnar at
23:05
C5.
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And he said, right now, if you have the courage, there is an intergenerational shift in what
23:15
wealth and tons of opportunity in real estate before capital markets come back.
23:22
And if we're afraid that there is no capital, that there is no this blah, blah, blah, blah,
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we're going to miss that opportunity.
23:29
So I didn't even know there was a whole yoga.
23:34
How to add the head of the book.
23:36
Have you done these the fear post, the fierce post?
23:39
Yes, I call it cheer post, but yes, the fierce post.
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What do you call it?
23:43
Cheer post.
23:44
Also known as cheer post.
23:45
And warrior three post.
23:47
Yes, I do warrior three, one and two.
23:49
How about lion's breath?
23:50
Yes.
23:51
Oof.
23:52
As long as I don't have to.
23:53
Yeah.
23:54
I was going to say, as long as it's not what it smells like.
23:58
It is exactly what it sounds like.
24:00
And you get a room full of 25 people doing that.
24:03
Oh my goodness.
24:06
But I agree.
24:07
I think that, I think we've always, we've always said it, it's in times of uncertainty
24:11
that you have the most opportunity.
24:14
We've seen that play out in so many different ways.
24:18
You know, and if you, if you, if you study the economic history of the United States,
24:22
you will, you will find that, you know, most generational wealth is built during times of
24:26
uncertainty and that's where the opportunity lies.
24:29
I thought there was a fourth, you know, main theme or lesson in the book.
24:33
And there are many.
24:34
And of course, as is, as it is with books, which is why we love reading, it means different
24:38
things to different people, right?
24:39
Because reading is a very interactive journey, right?
24:43
Because the person reading becomes part of the story, right?
24:46
And becomes part of the interpretation.
24:48
But in there's a sentence that says, when I feel uncertain and start to lose my balance,
24:55
I find my center and gather my strength.
24:59
And that's another really interesting component.
25:01
And I think that we like the rule of threes and I love all your three questions.
25:06
And I think part of this is a part of the three questions that you mentioned is really
25:11
about that is about finding your center, you know, because I'm about to be 50 in December.
25:17
And I was contemplating how, how different life is than it was when I was a child, right?
25:25
And, and I was thinking like we, I feel that because of all the technological advancement,
25:31
especially in communications, the internet, the interconnectivity that there has been
25:36
great opportunity, but there's also been, it's almost dizzying the amount of information
25:41
that we have to consume, you know?
25:43
And I find that for anybody entering any industry that you can, you have access to so much information
25:49
that sometimes it's difficult to find your center and say, what's valuable, what's not
25:53
valuable, how do I interpret this, how do I, you know, what, what is going to actually
25:57
bring me value and what is going to be a total distraction.
26:00
The info is really noise, right?
26:03
And if you think about our crazy brains, that's just noise.
26:06
It's all the information, our brains trying to process information.
26:09
So I think to your point, that's where tech has really sped that up.
26:15
We have access to more data faster than we've ever had, right?
26:20
And it's getting exponentially more so, which means our brains are going to be even more
26:25
like, yeah, because you, you, you can stray from your center, right?
26:32
And I think that that, that is a really interesting dynamic.
26:36
What are the things that are pulling you closer to, to your authentic self?
26:39
And what are the things that are pulling you away?
26:41
And it creating this phrase.
26:42
So there are little nuggets in this short book, right?
26:46
It's also beautifully illustrated.
26:48
They did a nice job, but there are always these little nuggets of information.
26:52
I love that we're discussing this partly because there is, and I'm finding it more and more
26:59
valuable, but I was in a conference and someone talked to me about a book called the brevity.
27:06
I think that there is something to that.
27:09
It is, if you cannot convey your ideas in a very simple, direct way, then they either
27:15
have to be workshop more, right?
27:17
Or you're, you're missing the point.
27:20
And I think that the brevity of the story, but the ramifications or the, the potentiality
27:26
of the ideas are very powerful.
27:28
Well, the brevity of the story didn't take away from the strength of the message.
27:33
Well, it also allowed us to become part of the story, right?
27:37
Cause we had our own, our own experiences and our own perspective.
27:42
And I, and I really, I really do enjoy that.
27:44
And I'm seeing that, you know, like today I was looking at a post in LinkedIn and it
27:48
was super long.
27:49
And I was like, wow, this is, and then I was looking at something and it was just two sentences
27:54
and it was much more impactful.
27:55
I digress a bit, but I do, I do think that it is a great time to, to speak about courage.
28:01
And I love that the title of the book is not courage, but it is I am courage, you know,
28:08
as if it is an adjective and attitude.
28:11
You know, listen, I don't want to go to books and books while you're shopping for kids books,
28:16
but I really appreciate that you do that in your spare time.
28:21
I love it.
28:22
I love books and books.
28:23
I have to be careful cause talk about going down a rabbit hole in a bookstore.
28:27
Exactly.
28:28
So do you have a fun fact?
28:29
I, I, I, uh, no.
28:32
That means no.
28:34
Okay.
28:35
So I'll do one.
28:37
It's a little bit long, but bear with me.
28:38
So according to MSCI Inc, a company that provides research based data and tools to financial
28:44
institutions, data through July showed how rough the national commercial real estate market
28:50
has been with transactions down from 5% from 203.8 billion.
28:59
And I throw out that number because there are signs that we are near rock bottom of
29:05
the cycle.
29:06
And it's finally funny during the great recession, my brother who does a lot of stock investing
29:11
on his own.
29:13
He's like, you have to listen for certain words to know when to get back in the market.
29:17
And it is obviously bottom trough.
29:21
And my favorite one is capitulation.
29:23
When you start hearing capitulation and, and I've been hearing more of that.
29:29
So again, going back to fears, a place for opportunity and growth and what Spencer Levy
29:35
says now is a great, great time for opportunity.
29:39
So start digging and looking at where the opportunities are.
29:44
And you're going to have a great fourth quarter and even better start to 2025.
29:49
And you know, in regards to opportunity, I have another, I do have a stat for you and
29:54
that is that yesterday I got to see Ron Schaafield.
29:56
Oh yeah.
29:57
He came by and you know, someone that we admire and respect tremendously, my giant in the
30:03
industry here in South Florida.
30:04
And you know that he loves stats and I love all his reporting.
30:08
And he was saying that if you look at the transaction volume and in this case, he's
30:12
talking about residential real estate in the first six months of this year.
30:16
Look at this stat.
30:17
This is why Ron is amazing.
30:19
We had the lowest number of transactions than we've had in the first six months of the
30:26
past 15 years.
30:28
Wow.
30:29
Right.
30:30
So that's an impactful stat.
30:31
Now, you could say, wow, things are, when you are in this industry long enough, while
30:35
you're looking at that, when you hear that, you hear opportunity.
30:38
Right.
30:39
Right.
30:40
And so that, that's just amazing.
30:41
So again, thank you.
30:42
Shout out to Ron.
30:44
Thank you for bringing this up.
30:46
It's a great exercise.
30:47
It was a lot of fun.
30:48
Thank you for playing.
30:49
Well, and I got my three questions.
30:52
I think Jessica's right.
30:53
I might need an hour and a half.
30:56
You know, I don't know if that's going to really help Jessica because then I have to
30:59
overthink it and you know, we don't want to overthink it and then put it down that I
31:03
got to learn yoga.
31:04
Or at least lion's breath.
31:07
There you go.
31:09
No, no, that's not lion's breath.
31:11
That's not type of an eye.
31:13
I love it.
31:16
Bye everybody.
31:17
Thank you for joining us.
31:18
I appreciate your support and we will, we will see you next time.
31:22
Bye bye.
31:23
All right.
31:24
And again.