Latest / Around the Kinky Kampfire Podcast / You Can Do BDSM Without Having Sex | S5 EP146 (FLASHBACK)

Transcript

You Can Do BDSM Without Having Sex | S5 EP146 (FLASHBACK) · Around the Kinky Kampfire Podcast

• 1:08
  SPEAKER_04: So we're back.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_04: From where?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_04: From where'd we go?
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_04: Intro.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_04: It's us.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_04: Hello.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_05: I was looking around going, holy shit, where'd we go?
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_05: Are we back?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_05: Mentally back.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_05: Are we saying I'm not mentally back.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_05: I'm checked the fuck out.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_05: Are we saying campers or camsters?
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_05: Campsters.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, he's like put them together.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_05: Campsters, campers, put them together.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_05: Campsters.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_05: Kinky, campers, camsters.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_05: To my right kinksters.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_03: I have stained camsters.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: To my left, I have.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: This is Esme.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: And this is Signor Tucker Knuckle.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_05: Who?
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: Senior Tuckonukle.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_05: I don't even care anymore.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_05: Senor.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_05: Senior Tuckle Knuckle.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Taco Knuckle.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_05: Taco Knuckle.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: And we have a very exciting episode for you.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: But before we get there, you know what time it is.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: I heard Taco Knuckle.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: I heard Taco Knuckle.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: You are correct.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: It is Signor Taco Knuckle.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it is.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's my Mexico.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's my Mexican accent.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I have finished my pink Pino Pink Colada.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, is it gone?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_05: I wanted to.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: From last time.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: There's two more.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm officially drinking the Bang Um Wild and Watermelon.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: And then Bang did a blueberry blitz hydration sensation.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: Which is, I mean, it tastes like a bang, but there's no caffeine in there.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's literally for hydration.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: As I said last time, all these delicious.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: They're all getting into their um Oh my god.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_05: How much to their hydration game?
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_05: Zero.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_05: It's still like a bang.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_05: That is too much.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_05: I told you it's a bang without what's one call it Blackberry Blitz?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, that's delicious.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, my mouse water.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you didn't want to take your free sample.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_05: Oh man, that's because I don't go to that gym.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_05: It's a pass.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_05: Whatever.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_05: It doesn't matter.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_05: It's still free.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_05: So I've got another mighty swell, which really should sponsor this.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_05: It's a beautiful can.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_05: I want it to be.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it looks like sperminate.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_05: How is that one?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_05: I think it's supposed to be like grape.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_05: Dude, this is the purple magic.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_05: It is delicious.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_05: I sipped this and was like, what?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, let me taste this purple magic.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_05: It's so good.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_05: And it's a pretty can, too.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_05: I think I found that.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_05: I think I got the last uh rocket pop.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: So too.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm really jamming on this purple magic.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's okay.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: Very pretty.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: I like the name though, purple magic.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm I'm drinking the same brand, but I'm finishing uh Tiger's Blood.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_03: Of course.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_03: And then going right back to the Rocket Pop.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: What did Tiger's Blood taste like?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_03: Charlie Sheen.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_03: Interesting.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_03: I don't recommend it after the Rocket Pop.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_03: Oh no, probably not.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_03: Is there the Tiger's Blood?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_05: No, there's two more.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, I'm gonna go grab one.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: It tasted like Charlie Sheen.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_05: Whatever.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_05: Nobody cares.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_05: Nobody cares.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: I said it twice.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: I had to make sure you guys heard it.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_05: I absolutely heard it and 100% ignored it.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_05: You can't ignore it.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_05: I'm seeing Toko Knuckle.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, Taco Knuckle.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he's just taco now.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: ASMR minutes in breep.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, oh.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_05: Doing it.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: Did he tell you I started sending him ASMR videos from TikTok?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, thank God.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_03: He didn't like them.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: He didn't appreciate them.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's because he, you know, he it's about him.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: They're supposed to be talking during the ASMR minute.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_05: It's about him.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: Let's just keep calm.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we're gonna keep it a it's a woman who eats candy and it crunches, and it's just like her lips.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_03: Oh that's all sorts of either jelly or don't choke.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_05: Choke on it.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_03: Or choke.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_05: Fuck your throat's a hard.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that was our ASMR minute.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't like them.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_05: Throat fucking like the videos for some reason.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_05: That's because he's a heathen.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_05: And we're back.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_05: Because it's about him providing it to other people, not about him listening to it.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_05: He know what he likes?
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_05: No.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_05: He likes bunnies.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_03: He likes the bunnies.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_03: Give me bunnies.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: I give him bunnies.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: I give him lips with candy.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like chumpet on candy.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's my only fans.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I do.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's great.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: Bunny.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: Give me a bunny.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: You see the bunny and crush videos.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: In the lettuce.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's laying on his back.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you're welcome.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I don't get the baby bunny.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: I should have sent you that one.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's laying on his back, eating the lettuce while it's in the lettuce.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, on like a romaine.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_03: No, this is a woman who like who glosses her lips different colors.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: And she'll put different stickers on her lips for like she'll eat different types of candy that crunch and gummy and all that.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know how this ended up on my TikTok, but it did, and so I keep sending it to him.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: You're trying to fuck with me.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_03: I'll send it to you.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: I love those.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: No, terrible.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: Bunnies.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_05: Apparently I have nice lips.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: Bunnies.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_05: They're all right.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: They're okay.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: So today's topic, we're uh we're uh feeling still goofy um from last time, and we're going to talk about BDSM and very little bit about sex and the non-sexual side of BSM.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: Because as the uneducated, I don't know, unenlightened people think that BDSM always includes sex, which is completely not true, campsters.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_05: We're called uneducated.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: Not fucking ignorant.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: You can do BDSM and not have sex.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: There's no sex in BDSM.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: No, there is sex in BDSM, but you don't have to have sex in BDSM.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: I meant actual BDSM.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: BDSM.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: There's no sex in BDSM.
• 6:16
  unknown: Wow.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_03: Ah, see, you got the first one.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_03: There we go.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's um not a sponsor, but it does enlighten my mind.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: So, very quick.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: There's no there's no BDSM in sex.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_05: No, there is.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: I said it backwards.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_05: No, there doesn't have to be sex in BDSM.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's no in BDSM in BDSM.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_05: But I guess there would be in kink because kink is very specifically sexual.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_05: It's a s it's like you can't get off without something, right?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, that's a fetish.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_05: No, that's a fetish.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_05: That's a fetish.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_05: So in a fetish, it's sexual.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: A kink.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_03: A fetish.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: I mean it's like something is like required for you to have sexual pleasure.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, kink, you're you're you're sexually aroused, you don't have to have actual sex.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: Because people fuck trees.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_05: Dendrophilia?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_05: And carnival rides.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: And cars.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_05: They actually marry them.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: And cars, yep.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: Dogs, sex dolls.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but anyways, they're aroused, but they have a relationship.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_05: Maybe they're romantic and not sexual.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they do, but I don't get it.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um specifically talking about BSM, the side of kink of stuff.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um so discipline, sadomasochism, and domination submission.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: Does not have to include sex.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: It does include sex a lot of times, but does not have to include sex.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_03: Don't forget the dominous submission.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I said.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: That was the last thing I said.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: Does not have to include it.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um so sex.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: We talk about it a lot.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: We have it a lot.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: I wish.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um but yes, uh how do we even go here?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's just like well, I mean, because so there's a big people think because most of their experiences are in the bedroom when they start, that you can that kink does not cannot exist alone unless there's sexual activities that go with it.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_03: And so what we would like to do is is give examples and and show you that you can enjoy the aspects of kink.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_03: You can enjoy the power exchange that can come in kink and in that.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: You can enjoy the actions, the physical topping and bottoming in kink, and it not be sexual.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: It can be intimate, but it doesn't have to be sexual.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't even have to be intimate either.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't have to be but it depends on the person's view of intimacy.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: You want to explain power exchange real quick?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: So power exchange is when two people, one person uh agrees to uh consensually give up power of something of themselves, whether it be actions or um concepts, whatever it is, that and they are willingly giving up power to another person who's willingly accepting it.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_03: It can be within a dynamic, within a relationship, or it could be within scene base.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's however the two people decide to negotiate it.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, giving up power control to another person.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_03: What?
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, somebody looked like they were gonna say something.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm paying attention.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: And so you can have power exchanges, you can have dynamics that are not sexual in nature.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: Just like you can have scenes and and play and it not be sexual in nature.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: So um the two things that made me think of this topic was that the fact that our local watering hole, there are people that go there and you're not allowed to have sex, but there are people that go there.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: You're not allowed to have traditional intercourse.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: Traditional intercourse.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_03: So we I guess we it would really begin on like what we define as sex.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_03: Are we talking penis and vagina?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_03: Are we talking penis and mouth?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: Are we talking vagina on vagina?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: Are we like what are you defining as sex?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: I would say it's any kind of insertion into any hole in somebody else's body.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: So are you talking about any toy or any human body part?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_05: I'm even going different.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_05: I'm talking about sexual arousal at all.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_03: But see, to me, you can have sexual arousal and not have sexual play.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, maybe it's the acting on that sexual arousal then because sometimes it's like accidental.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_05: So we're talking about acts.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_05: You get a tattoo that's like close to your business and you get a heart on.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you can do I could do a pressure point on a certain part of your body and you'll get wet.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean, and pressure points aren't considered sexual play, but you would still have an arousal or a reaction to it.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_05: Not acting on it, maybe is the difference.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: And then you're not whether or not you act on it.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say yes, it could be that's my definition.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um that makes sense.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: Baker real biological.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_03: Are you talking so any oh per we talking accidental?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: Well, because at our watering hole, you can finger fuck.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, you can fist, you can use a dildo.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, you can put plugs in, vibrators, vibrators, I don't think those necessarily have to be sexual, even though it's your sexual parts.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: That's why I'm saying, like, for the sake of this, are we talking any sexual act?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: Anything that we would describe as a sexual act, or are we talking traditional intercourse?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_05: I have my labia pierced.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_05: Was that a sexual act just because it was done to my labia?
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like, well, you said with pierced biological part.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: When I say fake or real, I meant like biological part versus a dildo.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: I would still say that's a sex.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but then the thing about vibrators came into play.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: I would say anything sexual is with the purpose of giving another person an orgasm.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_03: I would not because there are certain people that certain types of play you could flog somebody and they can orgasm.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I would still but I could flog 98% of the other people and they never would.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say for that person it's sexual.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think it's blanket.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think it has to be very subjective.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_05: So it's intent.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_05: I'm with you.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I think it's intent.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_05: I'm with you on that one.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_05: I would consider that sexual.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I think it's with the intent.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_03: No, I'm just saying for the for the sake of if we're going to be talking about this from a little bit more of an educational standpoint, we need to be able to make sure that we are defining what we mean.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: Right, I get you.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think it's a blanket statement though.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: It has to be very subjective.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_03: We can have the people comment also.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you can't.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: How would you guys like us to differentiate between?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, if you're purposely.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_03: So for the sake of this conversation, we're gonna talk true traditional, what people traditionally think of as sex, penis and vagina, or penis and mouth.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_03: Or vagina and mouth.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: I would say you can.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_03: No, I'm saying are we creating norms for this conversation?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think we have to agree.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think we have to.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we don't have to agree.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's just if you're hearing from one person, for me, it's with the intent.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: So depending on the person, if they get uh orgasm from flogging, and I know that.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's sexual.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it is intent.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_05: We all kind of agreed on that anyway.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, all right.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_05: No, I'm I'm good with intent.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, with the intention of you know, orgasm.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: But we don't have to agree.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but just because you get a heart on from flogging doesn't necessarily make it sexual.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_05: Sometimes it's physiological or just bile, it's it's biological.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, if you're doing the flogging and you know the person's gonna get an orgasm or be turned on by it, then I say that's sexual.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because I'm gonna if you tell me that I'm my flogging's gonna be different than somebody that's just like, I just need a stress reliever.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: So that's gonna be different kind of flogging.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: So No, that's good.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_05: I was that was no, I was thinking of the first one.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_05: So let's talk about I didn't know it was gonna be sexual.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_03: Do let's talk about personal for a second.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_03: You personally, do are your sex and your kink intertwined?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: For me, um, my kink is pretty much all for play because I only do kink with partners.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um you only do sex with partners?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_03: So it's all intertwined.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: I do have I've had play partners in the past, but um even with them, I'm not sexually with them, but I'm like, I'm still being it's still I'm not having actual sex with them, but for me it is sexual because if I tease them, I'm telling you I'm it's gonna be on purpose.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: But we're not gonna do anything.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_03: So what about you?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: Is your sex and teasing?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: I kind of shoot them.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, you warmed them up?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: I warmed them up.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: I have no problem with that.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_05: My kink is not intertwined with sex, but my sex that has kink in it.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_05: Like I'm mostly have to have kinky sex.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_05: There's gotta be something.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_03: So there is no vanilla sex for you anymore?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_03: Pretty much.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: By choice, because of the kink, or just because that's just how it's working.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's just how I am.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_03: That's just how you are.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's kind of how I always have been.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: So there's always gotta be something.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely can't do vanilla sex anymore.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I you know what?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_05: I shouldn't say that because the way we define vanilla sex, I actually can't.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_05: Now we gotta define that.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I actually can do whatever we'd call vanilla sex, but I work like I have a kinky mindset, so it's like never actually vanilla for you.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_05: It's never actually vanilla.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_05: Like it just doesn't happen.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_05: There's always something.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_05: There's always choking, there's always some kind of breath play, there's always some kind of biting, there's always just one thing in there, or it's just rough or whatever.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_05: Always something.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I say that too because there's not any BDSM specific aspects to it.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's not 100% BDSM when I'm having sex, but there's always I'm primal.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: So primal aspects to it.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_05: Right, same.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_05: So there's always at least that.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_05: You literally can't escape it.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_05: It just is how my my body is.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_05: So it's like it's happening.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's somebody's doing it.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: There's that gray area of what like what is kinky now, but I've I feel that primal is not k is uh kinky.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: I can I think so too.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's not vanilla.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_05: It's not vanilla at all.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: So not everybody's always going to be some kind of kink involved.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_05: Um and then kink, kink, BDSM.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_05: I can do that and not be sexually attracted to the person.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_05: I'll do it with friends, I'll do it for fun, just to be goofy.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_05: I it's more about the show and the theatrics of it and the enjoyment and the play with your bodies, um helping somebody relieve stress, that's one of my most favorite ways to play, helping them experience something new, and it's uh actually most of the time mine's non-sexual.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_05: Unless it's specifically with partners, obviously.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_03: And did you guys evolve to that, or is that how it's always been?
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like once kink was discovered, then there was no going back.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: That's just how it is.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_03: I've been that way since I was like 16, exactly how I just described it.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_03: What about you?
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't truly enjoy sex until I learned about kink.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: Sex was very boring for me as a um quote unquote a vanilla person.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: So ever since I was like, ooh, women like this?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: I can spank somebody's ass and then they get turned on by it.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I'm I'm that's it.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: I can't do it ever again.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: I will never, you'll never see me on vanilla, I will never identify as vanilla, you'll never see me on a vanilla dating site.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: Even if I meet people that are inexperienced with kink, I'm like, hey, I'm kinky.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: This stuff happens at the bare minimum.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: We don't have to go full uh impact or rope bondage or anything, but this stuff you're gonna get bitten and scratched.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's the basics, even even if we're not having a full-on scene.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_03: So you're willing to meet them where they are in their kink journey.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um with the exception of the biting and the scratching, the exception of the primal is the primal written.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that's that's your ground zero.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that's it.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: That's my boundary right there.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: Also, anime and board games.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: Because as a little dating thing, there are people that have on their profile.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: I don't date you if you watch anime, and I'm like, well, swipe left.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_05: So weird.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_05: I don't have to like it, and it's also weird that when they do it that they don't like it.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_05: I think that's so weird.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: We don't click swipe left.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, all right, I'll swipe left.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I am not an anime fan, but my my former partner is, and so like it could play in the background and I didn't care.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um but it's not something I'm excluding somebody ever it's not something I will ever seek out, but it's not a deal breaker.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_03: Can you imagine excluding somebody for that?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_03: I think the only way it would be a deal breaker for me is if like it was their hobby, because then we're not gonna connect.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like, because I still wouldn't be able to their only hobby, yes.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: If it was their only hobby, then we're not gonna connect.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but yeah, these people have it specifically on there, like uh I I've had like people I tried to talk to in high school who that was all they did, and I'm gonna go to the city.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, see, I would not connect very well with those people.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_05: It was rough, yeah.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_05: I couldn't do it.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: You gotta have some so social limit.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean people put on their I mean, everybody's into fishing, apparently.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: Have you ever attempted once you discovered kink?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_03: Did you ever attempt to only kink without sex?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: Have you ever tried it to see how it felt with a partner?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: With anybody, um at the local watering hole, yeah.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_03: And it just didn't work for you?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um there is a missing element.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's a missing element.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it's still gonna be sexual, even if we're not having sex.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_05: I've seen you do a rope scene with one of our mutual friends, acquaintances, whatever, and they weren't a partner.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_05: That was when we first started going out.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_05: And it was public and not sexual.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_05: Public?
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_05: It was at the watering hole.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: It was still sexual.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but it was like we're friends, maybe for them, yeah.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_05: Like like flirty, teasy.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: It was mutual.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: I can I can be sexual with friends, but not have sex with I'd do that.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_05: I'm sexual, yeah.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_05: Do it all for it.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: It feels weird, but I can.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I'll flirt with my friends.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_05: And it doesn't feel weird.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I flirt with I flirt with all my friends.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: If I'm not flirting, I'm dead.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_03: So when you when you've always had this mindset, what what prompt you what prompted you to try kinky things that didn't involve sex?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_05: Ooh, good question.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_05: Uh I think I like to I'm like an active service person.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_05: So it's people that I care about that I want to have an experience.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_05: And I can't remember the first time I did it though.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_05: Let me think about it.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's definitely service.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah, it's an act of service kind of thing.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I I love to help people and then once you saw the reaction about the service aspect of it, you were able to to justify why you were not sexual in the kinky act.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: No, I'm just not attracted to them.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, you just weren't attracted to them.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_05: And I like the I like the sadism of it.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_05: It's to it's usually topping.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_05: Like I don't usually bottom for non-partners.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_05: Not usually.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_05: And if I do, it would be if they needed to just like beat somebody up, okay, great.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_05: Um, it wouldn't be non-sexual for me, because that's just absolutely not.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_05: Um I only sexually bottom for partners.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_05: Uh I would do it to like, I don't know, help stress relief, or if they needed a demo, they just needed somebody to that they tried to like a class.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_05: Right, right.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_05: They wanted to practice something on me, no problem.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I don't let me think about the first time I did that.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_05: The first time oh I b the first time I think I bottomed for somebody was um uh flogging practice, and then also rope.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_05: They were they were just practicing and learning.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_05: Labbing.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_05: That was it.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, learning from a mutant, you know, but you know who of course you guys know who it is.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_05: So it's um learning from a mutual friend who was teaching the person, it was one of my one of my very best friends teaching them how to flog.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_05: And then also rope class.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_05: And I was like, sure, I'll be the bottom for that.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_05: And then this so that's a service.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_05: I was like service bottoming, like, hey, sure, I'll do it.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_05: And it's non-sexual.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and then the topping.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_05: What did I do?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_05: I think was it fire?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_05: No.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_05: Pretty sure the first thing was fl was um impact.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_05: I don't want to say flogging, I'm not great with floggers.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_05: It was impact, and it was uh stress relief.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_05: They're like, I really just need to bottom, and I'm like, I need to practice.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_05: I got you.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_05: Let me beat the shit out of you, please.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, let me make it.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_05: And they were and they were just like a mutual friend.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_05: So I said, listen, let me be very clear.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_05: This is non-sexual to me.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_05: I'm not attracted to you.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_05: There's nothing, no offense to you.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_05: Demisexual, only attracted to partners would love to just beat the tar out of you, please.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, absolutely.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_05: And they were like, Cool.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_05: So that was a 45-minute fucking I put on a clinic.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_05: I was very proud of myself, very proud.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely uh bottoming and topping for classes.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: Those that's 100% like that's probably not even sexual, but yeah.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: You're capable of that?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh uh for a good friend, yeah.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, oh absolutely.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: It would definitely depend on who who I'm talking to.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: Just like before when I did the rope scene with a friend, it's because I had known her for multiple years, but like I've been asked for like primal wrestling scenes, and like we haven't even had a conversation.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not doing that with that.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I've primal wrestled with mutual friends.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but yeah, I I won't do that.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: We all know.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, weird.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_05: I'll do I'll do a little bit with acquaintances, but it depends on what it is.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_05: Nothing like intimate, nothing where it because I I wouldn't honestly, because I don't trust acquaintances as people yet.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_05: What if I hurt you?
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_05: What are you gonna do?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you don't know them well enough.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know 'em well enough to know that they're not gonna tattle and think I'm my bad person or something.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: Comfort zone to help a friend out with a certain kink that they're hundred percent.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_03: Same.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's where the I think that's where a lot of the misconception for the new people coming in is their exposure to kink is either through porn or through partners that did it only in the best.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_03: Room.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like they've never actually seen it outside of that until they go to their foc their first public space.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_03: Or their first public.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you don't see it at much.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so they go into this public space and they're like, but they're not having sex.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_03: They're thoroughly confused.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_03: They're not having sex.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, no, these they're just friends.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they're just friends.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_03: They're just they're uh mutually exchanging some energy and having some fun and high-fiving and and go about it.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_05: Literally is like playing catch.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_05: I'm playing catch with my friends.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_05: Like, oh, I'm tying my friends up.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_05: I'm flogging.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_05: It's like I played soccer with so-and-so last weekend.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I beat the shit out of them with a bat.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_05: It's the same to me.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: Came to the realization with somebody that I know that um went to a public place and didn't realize that people do pick-up play.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, really?
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: Didn't realize that was a thing.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's their first time going and like pick-up play.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah, that's another misconception is people go into public spaces thinking you have to go with somebody.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_03: And you absolutely do not.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know if we've ever talked about that on this podcast.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_05: You can walk alone.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_03: You can walk in.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's completely you cannot take what you think you might know from like a swinger aspect or or those types of television or porn.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_03: Walking alone.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_03: You can literally walk into a public space alone and just have conversations with people.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_03: And walking into a public space doesn't mean that you have to do something.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: And you can dress however you want.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, you can walk in a couple.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_03: Or not dress.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_05: Mr.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: Taco wants to say something.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: Look at him.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: The kink community is not the swinger community camsters.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: Completely different.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: Camsters.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Completely different.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: When the way we do things and our consent, completely different things.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_03: So I can understand why because it it was thoroughly confusing for me.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: So I can understand why are people not having sex.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_03: Ah, yes.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_03: And so I can I can see where one, it makes it very intimidating to go into a public space because you think you're gonna go in and see a bunch of sexual activity.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: And then you're going into a kinky public space, which you know, kink is what you do behind closed doors in a bedroom with people that you're with, and then you're like, wait a minute, these people are like they're thoroughly having fun and there's no sex involved at all.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_03: What the heck?
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_05: I want to interject something I was just remember I just had a memory.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_05: Um some of the first sex-related kink that I uh was interested in was like um I like to be chained, so I wanted to be chained up, and that was very specifically sex related.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_05: So that was I was probably like 16 when that end when I decided that that's a thing.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_05: Um after that, I was probably in my early 20s and I saw, and I always kind of knew this was a thing too, I saw um what is it called?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_05: Like ritual piercing, but it was the like human mobiles.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_05: They're up on meat hooks.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_05: You get a meat hook like you know, slung into your back, onto your skin of your back, and suspended, lifted up, and it was actually multiple people, and they did like a whole performance art kind of thing and swung the people around as human mobiles.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_05: And it was on uh what's that kink show taboo?
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_05: Taboo.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I think it was on taboo, and I saw that, and and I know that's a kink.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_05: I knew it then, I I just instinctively knew, and I recognized also at the time it was non-sexual, and I absolutely loved it.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_05: So I could tell that that was a non-sexual kink thing to do at the time, it might have been sexual for them, but it wasn't for me, and I could tell that it was.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_03: So it's usually more spiritual.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_05: So to me, this uh that's what I was thinking.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_05: This this feeling is um it's cathartic.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_05: And just because it's physical and it's this bodily release, or it's spiritual and it's a mental connection, and it's like a it's it's deeper, it's um it still has that level of intimacy, but without sex.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and that's another distinction too that people um have to learn to make because it's so ingrained in us that it's the same thing is intimacy is not sex.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_03: There you go.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_05: That's the ticket.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_03: And so once you can wrap our your head around the fact that you can be intimate and have intimacy and not have sex.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_03: So think of it this way the the best the best analogy is gonna be more for um the women folk.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I say to there's some entitled sis heterosexual males.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna talk to the women folk for a minute.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, and when you typically when we grow up and we come adolescent, we have best girlfriends.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_03: We have girlfriends, and they're your best friend, and they're closer usually than your own sister.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_03: And you do it.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_03: Everything together and you learn everything together.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_03: You learn it you go through life milestones together, and sometimes you stay best friends, best close sisters, and sometimes they stab you on the back.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_03: But I mean, sometimes through life you um you go through and they can ebb and flow and you can get different ones and and things of that nature.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_03: But my my best friends, my close women friends, I would say we share an intimacy.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, absolutely.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: We we share an intimacy, but we're not sexual.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_03: We've never had sex, we don't think about having sex, it's not part of the I think.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_05: Do you consider it romantic?
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_05: Like I'm romantically involved with my friends, and I'm not sexually involved with them.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_05: It's just a it's a thing.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_05: I have I have male friends, and I almost want to call them my partners, but I I kind of do and I kind of don't sometimes that I'm like romantically involved with, but not sexually involved with.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_05: So there's like snuggling, and it's kind of kink stuff.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_05: Topping, bottoming.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so but it's truly non-sexual.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: Sister-wise when you think of the TV shows.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's not the definition of sister-wise.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_05: No, my my best friend a long time ago, we called each other sister wife, and it was like a whole thing.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_05: And we were like, we were really okay.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_05: We were almost sexual.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_05: It was like really intimate, and it was it was interesting.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_05: That's the whole thing too.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like generalization, women in America, you guys are more fluid with your sexual stuff than most guys.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: So it's more acceptable too.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: There's all kinds of yes.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: So on the on the topic of intimacy, just because you're intimate with somebody does not mean they have to have sex with you.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, do not feel entitled.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: Come humbly, especially if you're coming into these spaces.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we have some some experience with swinger stuff, but we have more experience with kink stuff.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely in a dungeon where sex is not allowed.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: Do not assume that somebody's gonna like go home with you after you play with them, or no one's entitled to do anything with you.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'll think it's just about fucking, and that's it.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's not just about fucking.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I will say for myself, as somebody going into a PlayStation where sex was not allowed, I was like, I can't play in public because I'm gonna get my dick hard.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: My dick's gonna be hard.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: I can't play.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna have a boner.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: Gonna have a boner.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I can't play.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_05: So it took me a couple years to be like the first time we played, you're like, I'm glad I'm wearing this poncho.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's different.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_05: Great.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's different.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so when I first it was the same, it was great.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: No, it was different.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: So um, yeah.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: Anyways, um, when I first started going to the public space, I was like, I'm gonna get a boner.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: I can't play.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: But then I realized after a while, I was like, okay, you know what?
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: I can actually play even with a partner and not get a boner in front of everybody.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, which would probably be fine in that space because everybody's like, you know.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: There's no like body shaming, so like what boner?
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: You have a boner.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_05: Um if I played with me, I'd have a boner too.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_05: Uh would.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, come on.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_05: Come on.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_05: What?
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's a callback.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: Did you not?
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_05: No.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: I told you this story.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: Did you?
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I had there was one of my times before.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: We'll go back into the past again, and when I was part of a culture where you'd be like getting ready to fuck a girl or trying to fuck a girl, and she'd be like, if if I was fucking me, I'd have a boner.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, get the fuck out of here.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_05: You don't know what that's like.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_05: So you did tell me that.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_05: You told me that like uh like last week, actually.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: You forget callbacks, apparently.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: God, I thought that's what that was.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_05: No, it was not.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_05: But, anyways, but okay, that was a dick thing for her to say, by the way.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_05: So that wasn't a dick thing for me to say.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even know if most people have this experience, but yeah, uh you you know, you're in a space and you're playing with people, you're gonna get turned on, but does not mean they have to have sex with you.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_05: Um that's the other thing.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_05: I don't get turned on, so just because somebody's playing with you does not mean they're attracted to you.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_05: Duh.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_05: Let me be perfectly clear about that.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_05: Just because I want to play with you doesn't mean I want to fuck you.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_05: So the opposite.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, at some point we probably should uh the opposite is just not true.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: We should probably talk about going to a placepace for the first time.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_05: Um, write that down.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: I did.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, okay.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_05: So oh god, my arm just got stuck in the chair.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_05: Oh god.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, there we go.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yes, so going into a new play space, I will say just for myself that uh I went and I realized um You walked in alone, right?
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: I had some experience because I gone to matches and house parties and stuff.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: But going in there and realizing you can't have sex, I'm like, this is not gonna be fun.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: But there's still the social aspect of it.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um huge social aspect.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: Most public dungeons that don't allow sex at least have like a uh aftercare area or socializing area.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: So you can go in there and you can talk to people, make connections non-sexually.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_05: You usually sit on a bunch of couches.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_05: Like it's not it's not just the dungeon, and then you gotta turn around and walk out.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you can go and have have friends and stuff like that.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, there's like maybe a coffee room.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: We're we're specifically talking about places where you can't have sex in there because it's illegal.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but there house parties as well and other um other clubs, other public clubs where you can't have sex, you can still not just go in there with your dick card and trying to get it wet or whatever, pussy dry and trying to get something in there.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you can go and socialize.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_05: This is dramatic.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I will just say for myself, going to these spaces, I enjoy more whether I'm having sex or not.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: I just enjoy socializing people with like-minded stuff going on.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's my favorite thing to do is watch other people doing stuff too, and you learn.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: I I mean, I like to dress up when I go to these spaces.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but you can dress up however you want, but it's like I literally go in pajamas sometimes.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I don't even care.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_03: First time I went out, sometimes I'll dress up, and sometimes I just am like, I just need to be comfortable.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you can't you can't do that in most public places, so it's good to be comfortable, but you don't have to.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: You can just go and socialize, be not creepy, you know, standing there looking awkward.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_05: Sometimes we like creepy.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you can I mean you can be awkward too.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: Start a conversation, don't be a lurker.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: So socializing is a big thing, and then also in a public space, you'll see usually some kind of bondage furniture you probably have not seen before if this is your first time there, and you can see people playing on that.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_05: Um you can ask, what's that?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, visually, um, if they don't work there, they're probably not gonna want you interrupting their scene, but you can get tips.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like I said before, when I was watching porn, I learned about the prone bone.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: So watching was a big old thing for me.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: So when I went to a public space, I watched You learned about that from porn?
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: I just said that.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_05: I heard you say it.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_05: I'm just surprised.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: How do you know about porn and bone?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't get educated from porn, but I learned I picked up some tips.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, oh, that's a cross thing.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's how you found out Oh, that's how you put people on there.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: I've seen that.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's how you do that.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: Or there's a bench.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh, okay, so the ask sticks out more if you put somebody over in a bench.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: So even just watching, I learned stuff.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: So you don't have to talk.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: I suggest you talk to people, but you can just sit and watch and learn.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: There's plenty of times I've just learned many years where I just watched and learned.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_03: Well, there's multiple times.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_03: I mean every time that we're open, there are people that attend just to be in the environment and soak it all in.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_03: Especially for their first couple times.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_05: I'll go to when I feel too vanilla.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, I need to be around this.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_03: That or they it's one of those situations where they have spent so much time thinking about this or looking it up or researching it or having these feelings.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe they were in relationships where they were made fun of for this.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe they were it, maybe they have tried to initiate this with people that they have been with and they've gotten shot down that also or all of the above.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_03: And so now they're finally in this environment where everybody thinks it's cool and nobody is making fun of anybody for doing it, and it's just sometimes it can be a little overwhelming, and just sitting and being in the space is all you're capable of, and that's okay.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_03: Because the space is always gonna be there.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_03: It's not like if you don't do anything, it's gonna go away.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_05: We'll always be here, guys.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_05: It'll always be here.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_05: Never leaves us, okay.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: And hopefully you go to a place where education is a big thing, and the people that work there are willing to demo with you and give a presentation.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of the time big old thing that are, especially in our local place.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_05: They are, yeah.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_03: Most most reputable places, most reputable public places that you go to, they they have classes that you can and you don't even have to go to an open dungeon night for your first time.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_03: You go to a class, put yourself in the environment and just sit in a classroom environment there to learn something, and then maybe that's your introduction, that's your way of stepping in, and it's not dark with music and you know, all the ambiance that communicate with it.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_03: It can be it a lot where it's nice and bright and open and it's a classroom environment.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, a lot of the classes now online are are online, they're on Zoom.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_03: So you could, you know, surround yourself for an hour and a half with like-minded people in an online class.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_05: I'm exactly the opposite.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_05: I walked in and I was like, if this place doesn't look like underworld, and if I don't see fucking blood play and vampires and fucking people beating each other, and it's I if I don't see that, I'm turning around and walking the fuck out.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_05: If this is like the lights are on and there's chairs and shit, I'm done.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_05: I want cages, I want chains, I want people strung up on meat hooks, or I'm out.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_05: And I walked in and I was like, None of that was happening.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_03: Some of it was.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_05: And I was like, this is good.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_05: All right, I can deal with this.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, and there's couches.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, I'm gonna go sit on the couches and watch uh some fine gentleman that we actually know get strung up, and then there's a bucket hanging from his balls, and his partner is tossing ball bearings into the bucket, and I'm like, this is beautiful.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_05: This is beautiful, it was great.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: It was blade for me.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, very first scene of blade.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_05: This is what I want to see.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_05: If I walk in and it's not that, I'm out.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_05: I'm done.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_05: I got so lucky.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_05: I got so lucky.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_05: I got lucky, I got so lucky.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_05: So Saturday night.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think in the future we're gonna check out more dungeons too because um they're that's what I always wanted in my life.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_02: Very, very popular um porn, not porn, YouTube edu sex educators that we recently listened to, and they were talking about dungeons.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: This is another reason why I came up with this because they're like there's a swing at the dungeon.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, yeah.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: What dungeon are you?
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_02: I I've never been into a dungeon with a swing.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: It was just like they just made this random generalization, and then all dungeons had swings.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, well, I mean, well, and that and also keep in mind that depending on your demographics, like your your the region that you live in, that's the laws that you're in.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so keep in mind there are going to be dungeons that um are no sex allowed, and then there are sex positive dungeons where you could walk in and see people having sex and engaging in sexual activities in the dungeon.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: And alcohol, unfortunately.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_03: No, you don't really see not in reputable ones.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_04: No, we do in a couple now.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_03: There are places that have BDSM nights, but that's different than a dungeon.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_03: We've seen both, we've seen all of it.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: There's actually not unreal.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: BDSM dungeons that have alcohol.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and it's not necessarily unreputable, it's more just like we are all gonna watch out for each other.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, is how it is.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, but yeah, luckily they don't have hard points, so at least there's no like switching going on.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but yeah, that would get a little out of hand.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: There's play for it.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_05: I think that would be kind of a problem and alcohol.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_05: Um private play parties, sometimes that happens too.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: So it captures you want us to come to a dungeon near you, you know what I'm gonna say?
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: Just post that on Instagram.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_05: That's actually, you know what?
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_05: That's a great idea.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_05: I'd love to do that.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, to travel.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_05: We should tell we could talk about that.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_05: Talk about our travel schedule.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_05: So so people It's a slog.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_05: That's what I say when I'm running it.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_05: Like it's a slow jog.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_05: It's a slog.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_05: Uh that's cool.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_05: If you guys, yeah, if anybody has to do.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_05: So some of the different reasons around the country, we like to travel.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_03: So some of the different reasons why people would kink or engage in BDSM activities that don't involve sex.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_03: Uh it's considered uh a stress relief.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's to some people, it's no different than them going to the gym and working out.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_03: That's how it is for me generally.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_03: For some people, it's no different than them going and getting massage to relax.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, it's it's equated to that for some.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, it's there's a variety of reasons why, some just because it's fucking fun.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I like to thoroughly enjoy it.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_05: It's sexy, but not necessarily sex related.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_05: I like the pictures.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_05: They get to express their artistic abilities.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I've done staples with ribbons, it's beautiful.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: I've uh heard a very hot topic.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you guys can give your opinion on this.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: Why um BDSM is considered therapeutic for some people um that are less active because the um and why it's populated with more less active people.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_03: What do you less active?
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_03: What do you mean?
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_03: Don't exercise?
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_03: Bigger, yes.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um so physically less active.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, less physically active.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, yeah, that makes sense.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_02: And they um they say uh you know, it's because everybody knows what runner's high is.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, and everybody knows what's like if you're a heavy lifter, um, you have the endorphins that come from from being in the zone.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_02: So the theory was that our the King Spaces are popular with people that are less physically active because they don't have another outlet for it besides impact.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_02: So they get in the zone and it's like subspace or DOM space, and they get their endorphins that way the zone and they get the zone therapeutic, but they don't know about the zone because they're not because they're not active.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, so they call it subspace or DOM space, but actually it's in the zone.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_05: It's like the flow.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_05: So video games, maybe that kind of thing.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they don't have that outlet, so they come to the dungeon to get that same thing, but nobody made that correlation, and I didn't hear about it until recently.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, oh, that's why there's less physically active people there.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um but you guys can give your opinions about that.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: But I thought it was an interesting theory.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's I think that's also because Kink can be one of those things that doesn't have yes, there are some activities that can be physically limiting for people that are not as physically um able, that they're they're not body able, as uh able-bodied as other people.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um and and I think that's one of the beautiful things about kink is things like that are taken into consideration.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_03: You can you can learn how to work with able-bodied people and not um able-bodied people.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's so adaptable and it's so um such a huge spectrum of of activities and and fun to be had that um it's it's not as the it can be limiting and and it can also be worked around.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: And a specific example, I've seen suspension with somebody that's in a wheelchair.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: I've seen that before, so that's very interesting.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that would be so cool.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, absolutely.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_03: I've seen a guy take his prosthetic leg off and hit somebody with it.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_05: That's fucking ballsy.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_05: Oh yeah.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_03: I've seen him take it off and give it to somebody else so they could hit somebody with it.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_03: Perfect.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_06: Yep.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean it's it it's I need to kick somebody's ass.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_05: Give me your fucking leg.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_03: Give me your leg.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_03: I need to kick somebody's ass.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna kick your ass, but I'm gonna kick your ass with his leg.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean it and it's it it was just natural for and it nobody thought anything about it.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_03: You know?
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think that once people are able to again, I'm gonna go back to the able to separate the intimacy from from sex, that it open it can literally open up your mind to a whole new way of looking at kink where you don't have to only have a partner, or if you're not dating somebody, then you can't do it.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_03: Or because that's another misconception is oh well, I don't I'm not dating anybody, so what could I do?
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, you can do any of it.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_03: You don't have to be in a in a romantic relationship in order to do this.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_05: I do intimate stuff with people I'm not in a relationship with all the fucking time.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_05: Listen to how many people I tell I love them.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's tons.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_05: It's the same thing.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_03: You've got this scowl on your face.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_03: But it's true, people honestly think, well, because they they still don't know how to separate to them, you know, kink and um sex and swinging and like all of this is still kind of hodgepodge together in their mind and they don't know where the lines are drawn.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_03: They don't always know where the social and and educational lines are drawn.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_03: So until they get that education and that knowledge and that experience, I can understand where a lot of it goes hand in hand.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_03: If you but where do we ever really see, besides just uh beating the literal shit out of somebody, where do we ever really see porn that's just kink and not sexual?
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_03: Because even if it's a woman topping a videos.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah, but even if it's like a woman topping a man, they'll do all sorts of things to the to the guy.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_03: The bottom goes through all sorts of shit, but at the end of the video, he's still getting off.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I'm saying?
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_03: Or like a a man's topping a woman, or a man's topping a man, or a woman's topping a woman, whoever's topping and whoever's bottoming.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_03: At the end of the video, there is nine and a half, nine and three quarters time out of ten, some kind of Finish sexual finish at the end.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_03: So in their mind, oh well, that's just how it's done.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_05: You ever notice how many parties we have where we all do scenes and none of them end up in sex?
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_05: Like all the time.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_05: And we could.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_05: And we still don't.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_05: And we don't.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_05: We still food play stuff.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_05: I we did, I just did something silly with a friend last a couple weekends ago, and none of it ends up like that.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_05: And it's I just realized that's the majority of the stuff we do.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_03: And it's funny because we're actually in an environment where we can do it.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_03: We could fuck in front of anybody.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_03: We just I don't know why we don't.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_05: I'm curious when you were talking, I was thinking about what about the people who really do have that association of BDSM with sex, and that's how they're wired.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's how I'm wired.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_03: I had to I had to force I had to unwire myself and and be able to to expand on that myself.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um I can understand why that would be why a public space would be frustrating for them.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and maybe it's not appropriate.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_05: It actually is frustrating for a lot of people.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_05: They walk in and they're like, no sex, and they turn around and walk away.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_03: Why am I here?
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_03: I used to think all the time, why would I spend money to come to a place to give myself like blue balls?
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like I don't understand to tease myself and denial.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like I've just entered a tease and denial scene with myself just by being in this public place.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like shit.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_03: I did not think about it this way.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_03: Tortured.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_03: Right there with you, sister.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, why don't go to strip clubs?
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_03: What's your kind of- I'd have viewed strip clubs completely different.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_03: To me, that's a form of entertaining.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_03: Entertaining to me.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_05: It's like strip clubs to me are a lot like watching people do kink and then I just it's like watching a dance or something.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_05: It's entertaining.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_05: It's entertaining.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_03: I like it.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_03: Now for soft for those of you.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_05: I wish I could have sex at a strip club.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_05: I wish it was a brothel.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_05: I'm not even gonna lie about it.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_05: I totally wish it was.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_03: Or like uh when you're like if you look at a lot of the depiction of Roman times when they're all just in there orgying together in like the bathhouses and everything.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_03: All about it.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_05: All about it.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_05: Oh my god.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_05: It's great.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I mean, I'd have to know them.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_05: I'm not just like, yeah, I'm deputies, I'm not just like of course they did.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_05: They live in the same town.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_05: They didn't know each other.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, oh please.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_05: They all knew each other.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_05: They all knew each other.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_05: Or they didn't care, and that's fine.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_03: So you you absolutely can incorporate sex into your kink.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_03: You can use all forms of different play, and and it can be sexual in nature.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_03: And it cannot be.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_03: And it cannot be.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_03: So to me, it's it's a it's something that should be negotiated with every person you engage in kink with.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_03: Is this sexual to you?
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_03: What does that look like to you?
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_03: Because to some because if they don't understand the difference between sexual and intimacy, they could say, Oh, yes, it's very sexual to me.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_03: And you don't do sexual things to them, but then there they are and having subdrop because it was intimate and they didn't realize it was intimate.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_05: I was literally just gonna say that, and I was like, well, that's where she's going with this.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it is actually really intimate.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_03: You have to ask them, well, what does what does that what does intimacy look like to you?
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_03: What does sexual look like to you?
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_05: Intimacy can be intense, intensity can be intimate.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_05: All these things wrap into each other.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_05: Sometimes you can get a heart on and they'll say, Hey, sorry, it's it's the intimate like intensity, it's not sex.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_03: To the to the penis wielding, the the the the penis wielding crowd out there, if you're playing with somebody and you get a heart, that doesn't have to be an embarrassment thing.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_03: That's your body reaction.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_03: It just happens.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_05: So some people might freak out about it.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_03: Some people might freak out because they're like, Oh my gosh, we negotiated no sex and you're getting hard.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's it might be a yellow, it might be a red, they don't understand.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_05: You might have to stop the scene.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_05: Take a pause.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_05: Take a pause.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_05: You know, somebody might really misunderstand that I could see that happening.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_03: However, it's not something you can let somebody know.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, typically when I play, I get aroused.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_05: Maybe they don't know if they're brand new.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_05: If you get hard, then just be like, hey, I gotta call yellow.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_05: Because if you said you weren't gonna make it sexual and now you're feeling sexual, call the scene yourself.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_05: Protect the person you're playing with because you've negotiated this is non-sexual.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_05: And if you're starting to feel a feeling, like you should probably back off.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_03: And that goes back to the whole negotiating, you know, touching body parts.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_03: What am I allowed to touch?
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_03: What am I allowed to play with?
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_03: You know.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, we talked about that.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_03: We did.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if I'm wearing Can I get hard?
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_03: Can I jerk off?
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_03: Don't touch anything.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_03: Don't touch anything.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_03: The underwear is coving.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_03: Bonus.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_03: I've got my outline.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_05: Yep.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and then that way sometimes a good outline, like if you're playing with um, if you're playing with a penis willing type of body, you know, at least it's within the outline and it doesn't matter if they get hard or not because it's not something that you're going to.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_03: Not your circus.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_03: Not your circus.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_03: If you're playing with somebody who has a vagina and they're wearing underwear, then it doesn't matter how turned on they get to you because you're not in charge of that part of their body.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_03: You're not doing anything with it.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yay, boundaries.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_03: So that could be another way of looking at, you know, working around the the physiological and and biological aspects of what all of the endorphins and all of the the the goody goody rush that you get.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_03: The dopamine, yeah, you really actually don't have control over.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it can be arousing because it's intense, and the intensity and the intimacy might lead to sexual arousal that's accidental, and that's okay.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_04: Are we on camping?
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, Jesus.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_05: Anyway, anyway, this is around the kinky campfire.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_05: You want to end it there?
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_03: So another thing that you that you can talk about in regards to this is you can have very intimate scenes.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_03: This isn't to saying that it has to be sexual or non-sexual.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like there has to be a kind of a I have had intimate scenes that are non-sexual.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_03: You can have very intimate scenes where there's a lot of energy exchanging and a lot of intent behind that energy and the connection and the all of that.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_03: You can have all of that and it not be sexual.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_03: I have done well, you guys saw it was so good.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_06: We just saw it.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I did the impact scene where I was literally beating the shit out of this person, but it was intimate because we had this connection.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_03: It was a good thing.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_03: But there was nothing sexual about that scene.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_05: It was perfect.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_05: It was almost like um sparring partners.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_05: A little it was like a mentoring something.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_05: It was definitely a power exchange.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it was just I don't know.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_05: There was a there was a dynamic there that was happening between two people that was just really cool.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_05: It was good.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_03: Very so I would consider that an intimate scene.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, very because of the energy exchange.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_03: It was a very primal scene, it was funny and and all of that.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_03: But I there's to me, there was nothing sexual about it.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, is if it didn't feel sexual to you guys, then it wasn't sexual.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_05: That's it.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_03: There was nothing sexual about it.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you wore boxers the whole time.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like I didn't even there was no playing of parts.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, there was no there was nothing inherently um yeah, no, no touching of sexual.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_03: But we've also played where there was touching of sexual organs, but it still wasn't sexual.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_03: So you can you can incorporate sexual organs in your play and still it not be sexual.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_03: I've done ball crushing, that kind of thing, you know.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_05: And it's not yeah, I had no interest in that.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_03: So for people that enjoy that type of play, you can still have that if you negotiate it the right way with the right person, you can still have that form of play and enjoy and explore with that, and it's still not be sexual.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_03: It could still be intimate.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, if you're stepping on somebody's balls, it feels pretty intimate.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_05: It's a little intimate, it's a little intimate.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_03: And so you have to be able to be okay with maybe a little bit of that that energy exchange for it for the intimacy.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_05: That was a little weird for me.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_03: So sometimes intimacy can almost feel but you can have intimacy from rope, you can have intimacy with bondage, with fire.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_03: Any form of play can be intimate.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's about the intention, too.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's about the intent of the energy exchange between the two people.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_03: And all are okay.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_03: And all are okay.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_03: It just again goes back to that negotiation one that we did.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I don't think people take you know, negotiation of intimacy as serious as well and it leads to all kinds of issues too.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_05: It can lead to like subdrop, it can lead to people getting the wrong idea about the relationship you've just developed with somebody you might have done pickup play with.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_05: It can cause all kinds of I don't know, miscommunications.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_05: And sometimes it's an accident.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_05: You play with somebody and you're like, oh, whoops, I guess I like them now.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_05: Shit.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_05: What do I do with this now?
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know what to do.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_03: So yes, you can absolutely enjoy the best of both worlds or enjoy one world only.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_03: There's no limitations to that.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's all in who you're choosing to play with and what you two negotiate doing.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_05: Other people should respect that about you, whatever your boundaries are, and you respect that about other people, whatever theirs are, and then also the place that you're playing in, because a lot of these places don't allow sex.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_05: And now you know why.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_05: Well, they don't allow traditional sexual sex, yeah.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_03: Touch touch some people would sexual organs.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_05: Intentional sexual.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_05: I would depending on your fisting, yeah.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I don't I I might not consider it sexual.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's weird.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_05: I have my genitals pierced, but it's non-sexual to me, even though somebody's touching my business.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_02: Public dungeons, but there's the actual law that governs what is considered sexual or not.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, what is considered sexual.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_05: I go to the OBGYN, it's definitely not sexual.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_05: Let me be very clear about that.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_05: But if I'm doing speculum play at a dungeon with my partner, it's 100% sexual, yes.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: So crazy.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_03: Which I think goes back to the energy exchange and the intent of the two people doing it.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_05: You ain't my doctor.
• 56:48
  unknown: Yeah.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_03: So do you guys think that you enjoy going to parties where you know it's it's it can happen, and then you choose not to make it happen, or do you prefer to go to a place that it's just a set boundary that you know it cannot sexual par play cannot happen?
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_03: The first one.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_03: You would rather go when it be an option and you choose not to absolutely every time both.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I like the fact that if it's not allowed because it's less stressful.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_03: As a you already know you can't go there.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, as a penis wielding person, there's always trouble times with the penis, it just has a mind of its own.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_02: So going to a place in like where sex is optional, it's a little bit more stressful.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's why I always have the negotiation every time before I go.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_02: Just like, hey, this is not really my thing sexually, but if stuff happens, then stuff happens.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_02: Just leave the door open.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um I don't know if I don't think we're like that anymore.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even know what that anymore means specifically.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_02: Anytime we talk about it really anytime, yes.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_02: Sex in general is we're not even gonna go that's sex in general.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, so to answer your question, I enjoyed it.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_02: He's had a hard life, guys.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I just need a heads up.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_02: Where are we going?
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_02: Give me a week notice so I can prepare my mind.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_02: Because even if I'm not having sex, like playing doing a scene in public is still stressful too.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like even amounts of stress.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_02: Sex in public is stressful, and kink in public is stressful.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_03: Really?
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_03: Not for me.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_03: I I now enjoy aspects of that.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_05: That's not true.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_05: You're so ridiculous.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_05: People are checking out my vagina.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_05: Are you kidding?
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_05: They're looking at my butthole, man.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I don't know that I'm comfortable with that.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_05: It's a whole experience.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_05: Me showing that.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_05: You have your underwear on.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, not at that's on you.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_02: You can keep your underwear on.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_02: At what at the place No, so with the other thing.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_02: You like aspects of both?
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_03: I do like aspects of both.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_03: I it it depends on who I'm going with and what the intent of the night is.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if I know I'm going to a public place, depending on who I'm with, I kind of prefer it because then I don't have to worry about them trying and me not wanting to, or me thinking we are and it not happening.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_03: That's the thing.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_05: Is it a with a partner or are you not?
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_05: Are you on a date when there's a sack?
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_05: That's another thing that's so wild.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like this just wild with me.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's like somebody, not me specifically, but somebody that's coming in from like the vanilla world, coming into our world, they always say, like, oh man, the communication is great because you talk about everything.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_05: It's like when the fuck didn't you talk about this?
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like why would you why is that a normal thing?
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_01: You should always have this conversation.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_03: But see, I'm talking about I'm talking about from a perspective of a of I have a partner.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_03: If I am just going, like, I will say 99% of the people that I play with, I have no sexual interaction with.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_03: I I'm not trying to have sex with them, I'm not going to have sex with them.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_03: Me too.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_03: We are we are doing a scene, we're doing a thing, and it is what it is.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'm talking about that 1% of maybe they are a play partner that we are sexual, maybe we are romantic partners and we're incorporating kink.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_03: I'm talking that I would rather have the option, but know what the options are beforehand than just leave it up to like whatever.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's a chance.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_03: Agree with that.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_02: And there's also people that have partners, they don't have this conversation.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, why would you not have this conversation with your partner?
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, maybe they're not like us.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_03: Now I don't mind having a say and then shit goes sideways.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's why we're here because here around the kinky campfire, we spread the information.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_02: So you know this.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_03: We spread a lot of them.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_03: Spread them.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_02: Consensually spread it.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_03: Spread.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_03: Now, Mahtibay, I will play with people's penises, I will play with people's vaginas.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_03: I have the ability to have scenes where we can incorporate any body part, and it can be sexual in nature, it can have a sexual feeling to it, but I'm not gonna have sex with them.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_03: Same.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_03: I'm the same.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I'm not even aroused by it.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_05: I just nah.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I get something out of it, but I'm not gonna have sex with you.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_03: There's not gonna be a finish.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_03: This isn't a to-be-continued.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_05: They can go masturbate about it if they want.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_05: I don't give a shit.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_03: This is very much a it is what it is, and what it ends, it ends.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_05: I have friends that I do that with.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_02: Penis and vagina?
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_02: Same mind there.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think I can do that.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_03: Now, if I'm doing if I have a a I think partner similarly when we talk about this kind of stuff.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_03: When I have a partner, it's the same, um, like a dynamic or or a partner like that, and we do private play, it's always sexual.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, that makes sense.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_02: But you will play with somebody's genitals and it not be sexual.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_03: Well, not I won't, it won't it's sexual, but not I won't have sex with it.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_05: It's their it's their sexual organs and broke my mind right there.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_05: It's like it can be we can purposefully make them aroused.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_05: I can probably jack somebody off and I don't feel any.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I love edge play per se.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right?
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_03: But you don't have to have an end to like edge edge play.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think because I'm a penis willing person.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_02: Edge play is in playing with a knife.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_03: Play is in like orgasm control.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_03: I can do edging.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_03: Edging.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_03: Edging.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_03: I can do edging with somebody and not want to have sex with them.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_02: I think my my penis will be able to get it.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's about power exchange, it's about control, it's about penis willing self.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_03: The experience of that, not it's not about the sex.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you just blew my mind right there.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because even with partners, if we're in a public space where you can't have sex, we're not keep your underwear on.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I can't.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_02: Take that shit off.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_02: No, I can't do it.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_02: Don't don't put my outside.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's the rule.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know this rule.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_02: This is coming from the person I've been in a relationship for for almost four years.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_02: I keep it on.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_02: I keep your own.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_02: The rule is keep your underwear on.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_05: I keep my underwear on because uh it's private and I don't want to, I don't want other people to see my bits.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_05: It's the only reason I keep it on.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_02: We talked about negotiation.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_02: That's what you say when you're gonna get the fuck out of me.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_02: So, anyways, especially at the watering hole or places where you're not allowed to have sex, it's like, cool, keep your underwear on.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have I mean, you don't have to keep nudity is allowed in most spaces.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_02: I think pretty much every public dungeon would probably make that general statement.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_02: But um, anytime the conversation comes up, it's like keep your underwear on because it's not sexy time.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, I do that anyway for myself.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_05: It's like a visual indicator.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_02: We just agreed on that.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_03: I have no problem doing CBT.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_03: I can do CBT and I don't want to have sex with them.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yep, yep, yep, yep.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_03: Cock and ball torture and don't want to have sex with them.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_03: Really?
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_03: Look at him.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, yeah.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_02: Partners keep it.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_02: I can and I have.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_03: I have no problem like if we negotiate it it as females too.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, vaginas.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_03: Vaginas too.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if I've if I've got a guy tied up and we've negotiated it, I have no problem fucking with him.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_03: I know I'm not gonna have sex with him.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he knows ultimately I'm not going to have sex with him.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_03: He explicitly knows that there is no sex in our future, but I will fuck with him and get him hard and watch him get soft and get him hard again just to fuck with him in the scene as long as we negotiated it.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_05: That yeah, that I'm yep, same.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, has happened, will happen again, no problem.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_05: Good times.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_03: What's the difference in my mind between doing that and using like doing any the any other form of play?
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_03: They flog because you enjoy they enjoy being flogged, they enjoy this aspect of their body, they enjoy the system that this brings up in their body, but it's not to me, it's sexual in nature because of the nature of the body part that you're playing with, but that doesn't mean we're gonna have sex.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I can't I can't wrap my head around it.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, anyways, that's a good point though.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_02: You can do that, you can touch the genitals and not have sex with the person.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_03: You can touch this.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_05: My O BGYN does it all the time.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_03: Now, is it an intimate form of play?
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_03: Because you are involving a body part that is typically not for public use.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_03: The public use.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_03: You don't walk around and just let anybody anybody can walk by you, like say in a bar.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_03: Somebody's walking by you in a crowded bar.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_03: We go to bar crawl, right?
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_03: And somebody's walking by you in a bar and they touch your arm and go, excuse me, as they're trying to walk by you.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like you said, just to let you know that they're behind you.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_03: They might touch your back or touch your arm and say, excuse me, as they're walking by.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_03: Nope.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_03: I grew up in a bar culture.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_03: That's considered polite.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_02: No, do not touch me.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_02: I don't care who the fuck you are, do not touch me.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'm with Dame Mitchell.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_05: It's considered polite.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_05: Mr.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_05: Taco has Senior Taco.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_05: You know, yeah.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_05: I understand what you're saying.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but then they're not gonna like grab your dick.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_03: And there's a lot like you're at a bar crawl and you like it's it's publicly acceptable to put your hand on somebody's arm or put your hand on somebody's back and say, excuse me, as you're walking by.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_03: But you grab their tickets, but it's not publicly acceptable to to like grab some a guy's crotch as you're walking by going, Oh, excuse me.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like so that's what I'm saying.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_03: So yes, it's a body part that is not typically it's typically very private.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_03: It's for intimate, romantic, sexual uses only.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_03: However, in the kink world, it can be used as a form of play, as a nut any other body part, and yes, it will feel like it is sexual in nature, but there's no sex involved.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, it's just part of the play.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_02: Very true.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_05: They're one and the same.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_05: But I'm saying they don't have to touch his butt, touch his dick, it's all a problem.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_05: It's all a problem.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_05: They don't have to be.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I can floss somebody's breast, and it's to me, yes, I'm playing with a with a sexual organ, but I'm not sexually playing with you.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_02: All these things are possible in the king community.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_03: Now, can it be sexual?
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_03: Can it be fun?
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_03: All of the things that we have mentioned can also be sexual, be intimate, have all the sexy fun times, all the things to get your juices going.
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_03: However, it's not a requirement.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_03: You can also do all of these things and not have that.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_02: This is all possible at public dungeons, and this is stuff you're gonna see.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_02: So we want to put that information out there, camsters.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_03: So if you are not comfortable with with sexual encounters with strangers, you can still enjoy all of the aspects of kink and not have to have that and not have the pressure of it.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_03: Because you will find in pickup play and in and in the communities, most people when they negotiate, they don't negotiate sex because they automatically think it's off the table.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's not something that people go in there looking for.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_03: Most people don't go in there looking for.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_03: And the ones that are new that do go in there looking for typically don't last long because that's not what that space is about.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_03: They will work themselves out because people they will quickly realize people will not tolerate it.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_02: Pretty much put the paint on the head there, yeah.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_03: No, they won't, they won't tolerate it.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like if if you um yeah, if you go to negotiate, if somebody brand new that nobody knows is coming up and they start negotiating, play with you, and they're like, So what sexually can we do?
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_03: They're gonna be like, Whoa, okay, so first of all, I don't do that.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_03: So if that's something you're looking for, I am not somebody that you should be playing with.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_03: And after they get that response from all Almost anybody they will quickly and but here's the thing is most people in the community will report that.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and say that person got banned that person is trying to negotiate sexual acts with me.
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_03: And then we just we're kind of a no-no you know, the community'll keep an eye on 'em, and if that's all they're doing and they're creeping people out, they'll they'll work their way out.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they get told somehow.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_05: They either know how to do it.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_05: No, they'll they'll educate 'em and be like, hey, we've tried.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_03: So you can do these things in public, but just letting you know this is typically not how community goes, and they either accept it or they they leave.
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_02: And there also have been um intimate consent violators and emotional consent violators.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_02: So this is another reason why to have a uh negotiation beforehand, because even if it's not sexual, there's other There's intimacy, and that's where this comes up.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of other consent violations.
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_03: I actually use that word when I negotiate and I know that there's gonna be a level of power exchange in our scene.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_03: I will specifically say, Are you okay with the scene having a level of intimacy?
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_05: And that's actually what I'm not okay with.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_05: So I would be really happy if somebody asked me that because I'll play with people all day and night, but I almost don't want to know.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like the last scene that you guys saw.
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that is a question that I ask.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_03: Good.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_03: But before every time we play, are you okay with this being this having a level of intimacy?
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_03: And so that will determine also the intent of my energy.
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_03: Because if I'm just beating the shit out of you, then you're not gonna see a lot of that power.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_05: I'm not gonna touch you with my hands a lot of the time.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you're just not gonna see a level like when I would grab the back of their head and just get in their face.
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_03: That's a level, that's a connection.
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_03: That's me being intimate with you.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_03: That's I we have just zoned out the rest of the world.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_03: If we did not negotiate intimacy, I would never do that to you.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I'm saying?
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_03: I would keep a distance.
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_05: I would make sure that they're I do what I'm not gonna touch you with my hands thing.
• 1:11:07
  SPEAKER_03: So I always negotiate grabbed unless you're gonna be able to do that.
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_03: I always say, are you comfortable?
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_03: Are are you looking for it to be sexual in nature?
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like, are you looking for that sexual energy?
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_03: And if they're like, no, okay, that's perfectly fine.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_03: Are you looking for a level, are you looking for a level of intimacy or are you okay with a level of intimacy?
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_03: And what does that look like to you?
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like, are you can are you okay with me establishing a an intimate connection during the scene?
• 1:11:36
  SPEAKER_03: And then after our and after we scene, I always check in going, how did that go for you?
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_03: Are you okay?
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_03: Is that what you expected?
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_03: How can it look different?
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_03: Because people are so comfortable navigating and negotiating the physical aspect of things that they I think they sorely underrate navigating the the soft the soft skill side of things.
• 1:12:05
  SPEAKER_03: Because that's where all everything goes sideways.
• 1:12:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, is in the they start thinking about how they felt, they start thinking about how it made them feel, they start thinking about how they feel after the fact and they constant they're replaying parts of the scenes in their head.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_03: And so if you're not checking in on those soft skills, on those as well as it's not all about like how your bruises feel, how's your ass feel, you know?
• 1:12:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's not always all about that.
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's you know, are you okay with how you feel about that scene?
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_03: Would you would you do this with me again?
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_03: And then that way you're checking in on those soft skills, those the the methodological and emotional.
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's yeah, that's any any place, even a place where sex is allowed, you still have to think about that stuff that has like the BDSM elements.
• 1:12:57
  SPEAKER_05: I always liken it to tattoos.
• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_05: I don't get tattoos from people I don't vibe with.
• 1:13:01
  SPEAKER_05: I just I just don't.
• 1:13:03
  SPEAKER_05: So I want to have some kind of thing because they're doing something to you.
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_05: So I don't know.
• 1:13:08
  SPEAKER_05: Easy way to put it if you don't know what we're talking about.
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_05: And you happen to have tattoos.
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_05: Sometimes you want to vibe with that person.
• 1:13:15
  SPEAKER_02: Alright, so that was BDSM and sex and nonsense.
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, pin in it.
• 1:13:19
  SPEAKER_05: That's it.
• 1:13:19
  SPEAKER_05: That's it.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_05: Thanks for uh tuning in.
• 1:13:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so next time we'll talk about uh at some point in the future, what it's like going to your first time to public dungeon or sex club or whatever it is, how you should conduct yourself.
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_04: Ooh, that'd be a good one.
• 1:13:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_04: But for now.
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_04: All right, friends.
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, was Esme.
• 1:13:38
  SPEAKER_04: This is Dame.
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_04: See y'all next time.
• 1:13:42
  SPEAKER_02: Outro.