Latest / Found in Interpretation Podcast / Ep. 57 - Mohamad Moussa : The Evolution of Interpretation Technology

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Ep. 57 - Mohamad Moussa : The Evolution of Interpretation Technology · Found in Interpretation Podcast

0:01
Hello, hello and welcome to another episode of found in
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Interpretation podcast, the podcast that talks about
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interpretation, translation technology, AI, you name it.
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I'm one of your Co host Alan Bratton when I'm here.
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Brian. Brian, how you doing?
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I'm doing great. Thanks for asking that.
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And we're also here with someone who has an incredible business
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acumen, is quite the entrepreneur and a source of
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inspiration. Mohammed Musa, How are you,
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Mohammad? Very good.
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Thank you. Thank you for giving me that
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chance to talk to you on this lovely podcast.
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I'm sure it's going to be very interesting, alright?
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I promise, I promise. Let's kick it.
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OK, here. We're here with Mohammed Mussa
0:59
and he is the founder of Global Audio Visual, which was founded
1:06
in 1998. I was in Sajap back then and
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he's in 2010, he serves as Technical Director, Audio and
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Simultaneous Interpretation Services for the International
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Olympic Committee meeting in Acapulco, Mexico.
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And in 2013 he's been official supplier for the Canadian Senate
1:30
committee. He pioneered.
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He's really an artist, an engineer, a very creative man
1:37
because he pioneered remote interpretation, a technology
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booth. Also, he created his own booth
1:46
with some magnets that you could build and very creative man that
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we have with us. And Brian, you've been working
1:54
with Mohammed for a number of years, right?
1:56
Yeah. So I, I started my company in
1:59
2005 and much like and before that I was a freelancer.
2:04
So I think I met Mohammed. I think we probably met like in
2:07
2004, 2005 when I was just starting.
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And yeah, it's been 20 years and you've done some wonders in the
2:14
last 20 years, well, longer than that since you started globally
2:20
and still in the 90s last century.
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So, so let's talk about how you moved from, from like from
2:29
becoming an entrepreneur. And then now you have three
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businesses. So let's talk about that.
2:37
Thanks, Brian was a really a a for me every job, especially
2:44
working with interpreters. I know how how important for you
2:52
the sound quality because that's that's that's what what you
2:58
like. You have to hear it and you
3:01
panic. I know interpreters, they panic
3:04
when they panicking in a way that OK like give me a good
3:09
sound like to work because you get distracted.
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So I know I knew how deep that giving a good sound is.
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Story right there. This interpreter, his
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performance, it really I see the difference one, because as as a
3:29
tech, when we sit in a meeting, we are hearing the interpreter
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when he's getting a good sound, his performance like it's wow.
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But as as soon as something bothered them, distracted them,
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this is the first, this is the first thing that it could make
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them either he has to speak to attack, he has to pass a note so
3:49
that it kind of so it does, it does take him out of the
3:53
performance. So I, I focused on this.
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How can I always give a good sound for an interpreter?
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It started right there. So I started designing a
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console. I was the first one who who put
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a limiter that a we call it a brick wall limiter for the
4:12
interpreters in case there's a drop of a mic or or or somebody
4:17
making noise. So I had that's the first
4:20
design. Now you're going to tell me why
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the other company like the big companies, they didn't do that?
4:28
Because these most companies, they look for numbers, OK, If I
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if you have to order, how many constantly?
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You have to order how many? So the interpretation business,
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it's a very niche market. And as you know, big companies,
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they look at the numbers every month.
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So I, I took the action and I said, you know what, I started
4:50
doing the jobs and taking that budget and start designing.
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And as I came out from the Lebanese Institute for
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Electronics, so I was able to, to get the design of the
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circuits. This is how it really started is
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how can I give a good sound to an interpreter to, to make the
5:12
client happy and the interpreter happy and, you know, give it
5:17
doing a good job every time focusing on giving it good job,
5:21
not on the revenue. Like, and I understand there's
5:25
some, some institution they, they're able to pay the money.
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Other institution, they're not able to pay the money.
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So we, we were doing a lot of demonstrations Benevola.
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And you know, this is, this is how you have, we have a good
5:43
relation with the client with, with the professional
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interpreters. What's bothering you always, you
5:48
know, having good communication with the interpreter, what
5:51
you're missing? What's, what can we do better?
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So interpreters are also our best source of of of technology
6:01
too, because. We're very picky.
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Yes, it Becky, but I know when that your performance.
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How can I reach that performance?
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So good sounding and and a good, good service at the mic setup
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audio in the room. This is the key.
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And then of course, you focus on the other issue.
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Also, don't forget, sometimes there's broadcast not only you
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broadcast is, is getting on a press conference is the audio
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was bad. And so if I get it to you, so I
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means I get across across the recording across to the client,
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especially virtually. So so this is this is how I
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started. I I had a vision as is I want
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it. I wanted to do to do well.
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If I do something I have to do it right or?
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Yeah, well, you talked about several aspects there, which is
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amazing. Like you've, you've developed a
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technology to be able to protect the interpreters hearing, which
7:03
is one of the most important parts of in order to do our job,
7:07
we need a good hearing, a good brain and, and, and our voice.
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And so you've been able to to protect us basically from, from
7:16
acoustic shocks, from loud noises that come into the
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microphone feedback. Yeah, you name it.
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And then you've also, when I used your consoles, um, I found
7:27
that the design was really user friendly.
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And that's the other thing with interpreters that you're busy
7:33
interpreting and concentrating on the conference.
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You don't have time to fiddle around with buttons and stuff
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like that. So you made it very easy to use.
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And, and from there, you, you also have this, this ability to
7:46
project our voices so that you can have studio quality like the
7:51
because you've, you've also developed the receivers, right?
7:54
Exactly, exactly. Yeah, the receiver is it came
7:58
out, Yeah, it came out from other.
8:03
You know, we always say a good project product comes out from
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another bad product that is not working.
8:12
And then you think how how you could how you could do better.
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There's a so I had the opportunity, as I said, as
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electronics engineer and and I had, I had the good contacts for
8:29
me from other. Of course, you're not alone.
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There's a team behind that always so I said let me try it.
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So I tried and believe me, is that jobs that the right jobs
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that I was doing on, on the I never I, I, I'm not gonna talk
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about money is but I never, I always did.
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The products came out from the jobs that we do it it's, it's
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financed, financed by the job that we're doing.
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So focusing on a good job. And then I said, you know what?
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I'm making good money from this job.
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Let me focus on doing a good job also on the on the equipment
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side. So in another word, if you have
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to make money, you have to spend money.
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So I did. I did.
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Really went all the way for the and I always wanted to satisfy
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the client, the interpreters and the technician.
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The text, the text has to be user friendly for the tech.
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You can't give, wow, give the technology right away and throw
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it in front of everybody. No, you have to try it in
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parallel. Is it working?
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What's the weakness? What's the, the pros and cons?
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So this, this also the field with your professional
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interpreters like yourself. It gives us the chance because
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sometimes you're doing it interpretation.
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But me on the other side, on my table, I have in parallel
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something else going on trying to to see what could work
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better, what's how can I improve this.
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So working in parallel during the jobs, that's another
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research and development that was going on.
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Because remember, if you see marketing on any products, show
10:13
me in life. Don't don't just show me
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letters, don't write me text. Show me in life is gonna work.
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This is where Yeah, where where the the action happened is life.
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What what all of the sudden interpreters.
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If you let's say if you have a problem interpreters.
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Yes, you said it yourself, Brian.
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Like when we were working, we can't think of patterns.
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We can't think of that. And the the the one of the of
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the things happens. I'll tell the Internet, OK, what
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happened? I don't know this is so you were
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interpreting of course, you're you're not there.
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So we we wanted to help you on that situation.
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Is is like we have to give you the least amount of controls
11:00
that you really need. Only the other other controls.
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We leave it for the text, but I'll give you what's important
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to you. Yeah.
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So that's so. I'd like to break down to
11:14
elements we're talking about on site interpretation.
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But now since COVID, there's remote interpretation and
11:23
there's a hybrid which is a mixture of people on site and
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the interpreters online. Have you been able to adapt you
11:34
the sound quality quest that you have and and when when it comes
11:41
to let's say remote or hybrid interpretation?
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Yes. Well, I was approached by one of
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the professional interpreters like she had a client and they
11:54
had they wanted to do or courtrooms in, but they didn't
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have the budget to have a team of interpreters in every city.
12:03
And how how also the other thing, not only only the budget
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is sometimes, you know, when you get a busy season, you get the
12:14
availability of interpreters. SO4 Series 12 and terms and four
12:20
an hour for an hour or two hours.
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So that's that's heavy, that's what the client said.
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It's heavy on their budget. So they said there's any other
12:30
solution. I said, listen, I was thinking
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because we we say about story one day I was in Banff, I was
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doing interpretation and it was like really press conference for
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interpreter. That was in 2004 or 2003.
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And the interpreters, I saw them, they were thought we came
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all the way here for an hour. So I said, OK, OK.
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Then the remote I, I, I asked the interpreter if I do
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something I could get you remotely like instead coming to
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ban from Ottawa Is that is that she said that would be wonderful
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for short meeting. So I could say interpreters and
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also you also you're the being being present.
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I understand it's eye contact and all that as interpreters
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they say. But when there's a short
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meeting, an hour, two hours remote, so I start right away
13:25
thinking what should I do? So I started developing and by
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by the time I was approached with this interpreter and for
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her client, I said, you know what, I'm ready.
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She said, Are you ready? I said yeah, I know how to do
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it. So what did you develop?
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What did what did what? What do you what differently
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for? Yeah, What was that?
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It's in real time. What I developed is an algorithm
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that the algorithm that we we added in web Switcher is the
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interpreters. The interpreters sound could be
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shared across any device. I was the first one like I could
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so I could capture the interpreter voice in real time
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from any device and push it to the headsets, push it to any
14:14
receiver. I was the first one to do that,
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so doing and plus the interpreters.
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The other technology is we, I use the video conferencing, but
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the problem, as you know, with video conferencing sometimes is
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the lag, the bandwidth when so when I had my own service
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reserved for for my project only give you an example of any video
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conference, there's a big load on it.
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It could disconnect it could you know, So I the web Switcher was
14:50
developed video on audio in real time on a dedicated server.
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So, so there is no way there's no way to have another another
14:59
clients or a risk of disconnecting.
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So that's so the real that the the main, the main important
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technical specification has to be there.
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Should I stick like a zoom? Yeah, it's like a Yeah, it's
15:17
like a zoom, but. It's sort of a Zoom competitor.
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And I could say Zoom competitor with the the audio is fine.
15:27
But me, I have a concert exactly the same hardware console that
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you see it in in the meeting room.
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So you have an interface for web Switcher for interpreters.
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So they could hand over to another interpreter.
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They could they have the they have all the standard switches
15:45
like the volume right in front of you did the knobs were
15:49
switching channels you know if. You're it's like a simulation of
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a council. Stimulation.
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On a platform. On a platform so that exactly so
16:02
that that has to be easy for them when they have to switch
16:05
languages, turn up the volume so it's exactly simulate the
16:08
console on an interface. So that was the difference and
16:13
plus it's it's it's a full bandwidth audio quality.
16:18
So people in in four different audience court, they didn't know
16:26
what their interpretation in real time.
16:28
So that judge give you an example, how accurate was that
16:31
judging? Quebec was talking to a judge in
16:34
in Vancouver and both both speaking in their native
16:38
language and they both had the headset and they were talking to
16:43
themselves in a real time. This is how we did it.
16:46
We did it twice. Now you mentioned that that your
16:49
initial idea of doing this was back in 2005, 2006 in Banff.
16:53
So like really like you were. It was a precursor to yeah,
16:59
yeah. Because Zoom, I think it was
17:01
basically 2000 during the pandemic that it became popular.
17:05
I say that are more standardized to use Webex and Zoom and and
17:10
the Ms. team, well, they're kind.
17:12
Of you have to mention teams. Yeah.
17:15
Yeah, exactly. Every time I hire interpreters
17:21
and they tell them it's gonna be on teams and they just like OHT,
17:25
they hate it. You know, but you know, and can
17:29
I? Use your complicated.
17:30
My text, the same thing. My text the same thing, yeah.
17:33
Can can I Can I use your platform while I'm using zoom?
17:38
Like like a plugin? Would that be possible?
17:43
We have a plugin. Yes, yes.
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Now. Now I'm working exactly,
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exactly. I'm working on on unlimited
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plan. The thing is as I explained web
17:54
Switcher, it's on dedicated server and it costs us, you
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know, there isn't a lot of client to support the because
18:01
the bandwidth we pay for the bandwidth.
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Now I'm working on something to get an unlimited plans, you
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know, you know, when the technology started, it's become
18:11
like it's very expensive and then start, you know, with more
18:14
users. Overtime and the price.
18:16
Has decreased time. So, so the cost, the cost, the
18:19
monthly cost for me, there is a lot of, yeah, a lot of cost
18:24
behind that. But I'm working on something
18:26
very interesting to integrate that into into Zoom and Ms.
18:30
Teams that the the simulation of the console.
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What would be the direct benefit for me as an interpreter if I
18:38
had to use your platform? A web Switcher on top of a zoom
18:44
meeting? What would be the benefit for
18:46
me? Less, less errors for you to to
18:49
be online or forgetting your mic on or on the right channel and
18:55
they hand over instead using another device to hand over
18:58
between between the other colleagues.
19:02
They're in the different different city, so inside the
19:05
same platform. Whoops.
19:07
Which sure, you'll be able to hand over so it's easier.
19:12
Yeah, I've used it a few times. It's really smooth.
19:14
It's and it's really yeah, yeah. I love using web Switcher.
19:18
Yeah. You've really developed
19:20
something that you've basically brought the booth, in person
19:23
booth into the virtual world. And it's, yeah, I haven't seen
19:27
anything comparable to it now. Yeah, but but coming back to the
19:32
in-person stuff, you've also built like your own booth, like
19:35
your own consoles, your own receivers.
19:37
You're basically self-sufficient at this point, right?
19:40
To be able to, yeah. The boost too.
19:43
I, I went to, to, to the people they had, you know, we have a
19:47
rental department at Global EV. So, so always the technician and
19:53
complaining about the, the, the how big it is when you get to a
19:57
hotels. Everybody complained, keep
20:00
complaining. So we kept talking.
20:01
The manufacturers in, in Quebec City, they said, OK, the same
20:08
thing. This this book that we have it
20:11
sells a lot is not, we're not, as you know, it's a niche
20:14
market. Everybody think about money, as
20:16
I said before. So I met, I met somebody in
20:21
doing in this. He designed like walls, air
20:27
walls for hotels and all that. And, and also I have, I have a
20:33
brother also, he came out from Polytechnic.
20:36
And so I said, listen, I have to do something for the
20:40
interpreters, for the tech and for the client.
20:43
And one of the major problem the idea came out is that chairman
20:50
or with the Senate, you know, the the Senate, when we go to
20:55
certain hotel rooms on move with the committee, they give us
20:58
sometimes like only for 15 people.
21:00
It's a small room. So the booth wasn't a good
21:03
soundproofing. That chairman, he kept telling
21:05
me, Mohammed Ali, I get embarrassed, he said.
21:08
I keep hearing the interpreters. I keep hearing the interpreters.
21:11
So I said I'm gonna do something here, Chairman, I'll promise you
21:15
I'm gonna do something. So, so I met these guys and I
21:20
get to with my brother at Polytechnic and, and we start
21:24
designing, designing this. No, has to be like this.
21:29
Then I came out with the interlock.
21:31
Interlock. I said it has to be easy for
21:33
tech. The sound proof is that the guy
21:36
from Errol, he, he, he, he did really work on the
21:41
soundproofing. I did work on the module.
21:44
The the size, the specs to meet the ISO, it means the ISO
21:48
standard 4043 for simultaneous interpretation.
21:52
So the so modular it could get into any other better
21:57
soundproofing. Now the interlock I said no you
22:00
can't Mohammed, you can't do that with magnets.
22:02
I said, no, we have, we have to do.
22:06
I said I did. I did design it and on the
22:09
design it doesn't work just like you know, in in magnets it's
22:13
there. So you can seal.
22:16
Magnets are good enough to seal the sound from not coming out.
22:21
Now you have, you have a, you have the the magnet to
22:25
interconnect and it's a plastic ABS plastic and the
22:30
soundproofing isolation like between panels.
22:34
So, so the the magnet is just to hold the panels together.
22:39
Yeah, so. Yeah, I've I've, yeah, I
22:42
purchased one many that when I owned a different company that's
22:46
and that's. True.
22:47
And now I remember. Yeah, now I remember.
22:49
Yes, you have one of those. Yeah, yes, yeah.
22:52
And, and so the thing that I love the most about it was that,
22:56
well, the old booths were like 8 foot panels, so the case was
23:02
even longer than that. They it kind of looked like like
23:05
a coffin on wheels, basically just like an oversized coffin on
23:08
wheels. And so it was very difficult to
23:11
get it into like, say like a minivan or to get it into an
23:15
elevator. So like I, you design something
23:18
where it's 4x4 basically like you cut it in half.
23:22
Exactly. So now you are by far more
23:24
flexible. You can bring it into a minivan.
23:27
You can bring it. Yeah.
23:28
Like, I can't believe it fits into it Minivan like this huge
23:31
booths. It's.
23:32
Exactly really created. Something and also.
23:35
The size is bigger, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's huge.
23:40
And the other thing too is that like you don't have to rent a
23:44
huge truck that to to load it and move it around, period.
23:49
Yeah. But I can't believe that you've
23:51
been able to build like from scratch a soundproof booth when,
23:59
as you said in the beginning, the market is so niche for
24:03
simultaneous interpretation because they're not that many
24:07
companies out there that I guess would want to buy this product.
24:12
Exactly. It's expensive product and as
24:16
you said in any, in any quality material, it's costly,
24:22
especially when you do it on a low volume.
24:26
It's like when you buy, when you, when you when you have to
24:29
buy material for let's say 25 booth.
24:31
It's not like when you buy something for 1000 booth.
24:34
It's so the cost involved It's, it's, it's, it's, it's a little
24:39
bit more so he can negotiate the pricing on a small amount of of
24:45
raw material. Yeah.
24:47
So the other thing is we worked on the lot too, on the look, it
24:52
has to look executive also. So, so we and and and the other
25:00
part too is the text, as you said, Brian.
25:02
Yeah, you're right. Yeah.
25:04
Also when you get to a hotel, sometimes there they have no
25:07
freight elevators. They have, yeah, they have like
25:11
the all the historical buildings.
25:14
They have a small, just handicapped, you know, stairways
25:20
or something. So the big booth, as he said, 8
25:23
foot long, everybody had problem.
25:26
They had to panel it and it wasn't good soundproofing wasn't
25:31
you know, deep enough now, because I know what it's
25:34
completely squared the booth. And and so if if if Brian is
25:39
doing interpretation and you are comes in, you don't bother him
25:43
because you could you could go in you have enough space also
25:48
that we took all that into consideration or is going to
25:51
bother if somebody on wheelchair because I sell couples to the
25:55
state. I sold it to to many companies
25:57
in the state and in the state now they have the law for a
26:01
wheelchair entrance has to be the door has to do a different
26:04
size. So mine.
26:05
Even for the interpreting both. Yeah, for the interpreters,
26:08
both, Yeah. What happened if there's a
26:11
handicapped interpreter, Yeah has to come in with his
26:14
wheelchair. So it.
26:16
Doesn't hurt much wider. Yeah, wider, wider door.
26:20
Exactly. And like for the interpreters or
26:22
for the technicians backs too, because those big 8 foot cases,
26:28
travel cases, those are I think £400.
26:32
Yeah, at least, at least, at least at least, Yeah, even £500.
26:38
Yeah. Wow.
26:38
So we use those those booths now.
26:41
We used it in in the studios in its at the beginning, as you
26:46
said, before bringing our booth and after, no, nobody, they go
26:52
to recycling, nobody wants to use them anymore.
26:56
So so we've talked about your entrepreneurial career here with
26:59
global EV and Web Switcher, and now you've got the the booth
27:03
Company Pro pro com. Rackham, yeah, program is.
27:07
And you've brought family members along with you too,
27:10
right? Oht man are you?
27:14
Everyone loves us. I'll just say this from.
27:17
My yeah, I Abbas, Abbas, he had the passion, electronics as
27:22
well. I said Abbas when he came in
27:23
here said you are you have to go study, learn all the codes,
27:28
electric code, a sound SPL, you know, sound pressure.
27:34
You have to get an idea, go study and then I'll take you
27:38
because I said because you have that passion.
27:41
I said you're still young now when he came in, he said you're
27:43
still young. Go take a certificate like one
27:47
year, 2 years doesn't take you more than that because you have
27:49
that passion. So I said when you go study a
27:52
little bit and you have the practice here, you're going to
27:55
be very powerful tech, I swear. And he listen, he went to in
28:00
Montreal here to the institute and he, he did the, he did study
28:07
for a good year and a half. And then he came out.
28:12
I said, OK, you ready? And then he's taught.
28:15
He does even. He did design his own nice
28:19
speakers. He has a good sounding speakers.
28:21
Like I'm sure you're as an interpreter too, because you're,
28:25
you have passion in music and all that.
28:27
Him too. So he, he developed, I said
28:30
Abbas, Abbas, you know, the, the other brand they sell that
28:34
speakers. They said, you know what, I want
28:37
to do it just for my own. And now sometimes when he died,
28:40
he goes do it like 1000 people, a show or something.
28:44
He bring his own speakers and he's very proud of that.
28:47
So he has a good ears, good tech, he works with the quality
28:52
and I'm yeah, and he. Works at the interpreters really
28:55
well. Like everyone, as soon as they
28:57
hear that Abbas is a technician, everyone's like, yes, this is
29:00
great. This is gonna be great.
29:03
He doesn't. He's he's a very, very, he works
29:06
in a very high standard. Yeah, yes, very high standard.
29:09
And yeah, I think. Am I wrong but I think he helped
29:12
Carmen too with her van her to set her up for interpretation so
29:16
she could travel around in her van.
29:19
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he did. I, I set up the I found the the
29:25
way to do the Internet for her. Yes yeah.
29:29
To travel around and I. Remember, I remember that
29:32
episode where Carmen was telling us about her van and she asked
29:38
someone to help her out with her Internet and I had some
29:41
questions about that for her and she didn't really know how to
29:44
answer. So I'm going to ask you the
29:45
question, how did you set up her Internet?
29:49
Because she was like, oh, it just works.
29:53
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's a good.
29:55
That's a good. I was very happy to hear that.
29:58
Yeah, just works. That's so so she I get so my
30:03
where I was going. So you got what you need is
30:06
good. So and she never you know what,
30:09
she never called that. That's another thing too, we
30:13
don't like the client to call us for.
30:15
I mean, of course for problem which try to to make it in a
30:19
way, let's say sometimes it could happen.
30:22
A client, he set up simultaneous interpretation.
30:26
I tell them, listen, if if there is no tech, things could happen,
30:30
could go wrong. Hmm, OK, can you do something?
30:34
And I said, OK, listen, if there is the only thing is if there is
30:38
a problem, take a break, call, call us.
30:41
And that's what sometimes, because there is a system that
30:44
we install it, it goes for two or three weeks and they're
30:47
working, you know, so. And we all know we have a good
30:50
client and we have a yeah, we have a nonprofit organization.
30:55
We have to help them. So it's so so we'll say you got.
31:01
So I said, listen, I'm gonna put it up in a way that like don't
31:05
play with the system. So you're not gonna call this?
31:10
So that's something I I told the I thought government, yeah,
31:13
we're gonna make it in a way you're not gonna call me.
31:16
Ever. Because I I know she travels a
31:20
lot and yeah, she travels a lot. So every time we talk to her,
31:24
where are you? So so to answer your question,
31:26
how did it work is I was able to to to get her her cell whatever
31:34
she is like the bandwidth like from different frequencies,
31:40
because you know, every every company works on a different
31:44
frequencies. The only thing?
31:45
I said. Yeah, on your phone every yeah,
31:50
every company works on different frequencies.
31:51
So I get it. I get a kind of a booster that
31:55
it it it capture the cell in the area from a tower on an in a
32:01
bigger antenna and send it over her SIM card.
32:06
She put a SIM card inside the machine and she would work on
32:09
the on the cell network in the area.
32:12
So that the trick here was how can because you know, when you
32:18
data is not like voice data, you need, you need a better coverage
32:22
in order to get the speed right. Yeah, you could sometimes you
32:27
could go in the in the field somewhere oht you have data, but
32:30
you could send emails, but are you able to connect to a video
32:33
conference? That's it.
32:34
That's it. So so the bandwidth.
32:37
So I was able to really capture those signals from a towers and
32:42
boost that. You can do that and and wired,
32:45
right. You can do that.
32:48
Yeah, you're a genius. Are you thinking?
32:51
Are you thinking it's a? You know what it is?
32:59
I, I love it when Carmen, she came in.
33:02
It's not for money. It's, it's a, it's a challenge.
33:05
We, we, we enjoy challenges. Yes, we enjoy it.
33:08
And, and you know what, as an interpreter too, as you know,
33:11
friend from all aspects, we like to help.
33:15
We we enjoy that. When Carmen first told us that
33:18
story, I remember thinking, oh, maybe like she maybe gets a
33:24
Wi-Fi from a Public Library nearby or something like that.
33:29
I was trying to think, you know, how can she achieve that?
33:32
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
33:36
The one thing she did tell us is if you're going to park your
33:38
van, don't do it close to a school or a church because of
33:41
the church bells on the school bells.
33:44
Yeah, that's yeah. And when it comes to, OK, so for
33:50
instance, right now I'm remote. I'm using basically this
33:54
microphone and a laptop to do online conferences when I'm
34:01
working remote, obviously. Is there anything else that I
34:05
could do to either improve my quality of life or the quality
34:10
of the feed that I have? Because I'll give an example if,
34:16
especially if it's a bit less nowadays.
34:19
But right now, let's say I'm doing a conference and not
34:24
everyone has a good microphone on the other hand, and then I
34:30
can't adjust. Like I don't have anything to
34:33
adjust the phase, the treble, the the OR sometimes there's a
34:38
high pitched sound. I've got no protection when I'm
34:41
working remote and there's nothing in my headset that
34:45
protects me against that. Is there anything that you've
34:48
developed with your thought about developing to fill that
34:52
gap for the interpreter? Yeah, the interpreter.
34:58
Interpreter. Don't, don't get me wrong.
35:01
Uh, not everyone like you, Technica.
35:07
That's very so when when do we think of something where exactly
35:13
we have to make sure that that everybody could use it and
35:19
you're not going to throw it in the, you know, on the side.
35:24
We take the time to do it and there is no replacement for
35:32
attack on in the room like in the room, even if they they come
35:38
out with the best Yeah, I or whatever.
35:40
Somebody has to hook up this, somebody has to patch this,
35:43
somebody has to to feed this videoconference, someone has to
35:49
to get it right now. Or you as an interpreter on your
35:54
studio. Yes, you could do, you could do
35:58
something now. The AI is powerful to eliminate
36:03
noise. Presently I'm I'm using a
36:07
microphone. I'm not using the laptop.
36:09
I'm using a pod. That's with, with the noise.
36:12
We have UPS, it kicked in before and I'm sure you didn't hear any
36:16
fan. Did you hear any fan or a noise
36:18
in the background? So, yeah, we have, I have, I'm
36:22
in in my like LAB, lab room here and I have, I have a noise
36:33
copper that AI was developed, developed.
36:39
There's a huge company in in AI in the US that that is not our.
36:45
Our field is now with the AI towards the interpreters on the,
36:52
we are more into control and merging, merging friend
37:00
technology together and we add on on it to make it better.
37:07
So, so for you as an interpreter now really the the AI could stop
37:15
noise coming to your ears. It's it's very powerful now.
37:20
What is it called? And it's a crisp, crisp dot AI.
37:27
You could add that software on your yeah.
37:32
On your laptop. On your laptop.
37:34
It's like a plugin that I add. Yeah, yeah, exactly correct.
37:38
Yeah, it's so so now one you added on it's it's it's a very
37:46
user friendly is an app it's a it does improve your sound out
37:54
and in yeah, which is good yeah. So that's not even if you're a
37:58
noisy though let's say if you had it now on your laptop on you
38:02
working, you would never hear any noise or barking dogs or
38:07
whatever. So so.
38:10
Brian, from next episode there's sound quality will improve a
38:13
lot. I know you're using.
38:15
Yeah, exactly. So even I go far from the
38:18
microphone. Look, my, my, my audio stays
38:21
study 123456. Yeah.
38:25
So, so it's, it's very powerful. I love these things, I think.
38:29
But yeah, so we're implementing that.
38:32
We're implementing that in in every audio like in our studios.
38:37
We I implemented that about a year ago.
38:39
So that's why in in my studio 2, it sounds the interpreters.
38:43
Yeah. It it removes the headache from
38:45
you too. That's the other thing.
38:47
Absolutely. Interpreters, would you you tell
38:50
me you're you're a better person to explain that.
38:52
Tell me what noise could do for your head when you're
38:54
interpreting. Yeah.
38:55
Yeah, that's, I mean, I mean, first of all, you can get damage
39:00
and if my ears are damaged and my career is done.
39:03
Yeah, yeah. So that's.
39:05
Protection is the first thing I have in mind, and of course the
39:10
second one is better. Sound equals, as you said,
39:13
better performance. Yeah.
39:15
So it's it's it's really essential and I'm definitely
39:20
going to try this. Although we're not sponsored, I
39:22
mean, I have to, I have to say we're not sponsored by this
39:25
company because we're not any company.
39:27
We're not very openly. We can do a review later and
39:31
maybe in another episode. Yes, we will tell you.
39:33
Actually, we'll test it out for next episode and see if.
39:38
Yeah, no, I mean, it's great. And like, I think it's also like
39:42
Alan and I were big fans of technology and trying to to
39:45
improve our own sounds and everything.
39:47
So in a lot of ways, like interpreters also need to have
39:50
some kind of accountability. Like they can't be interpreting
39:53
at a cafe or they can't be interpreting with air buds, you
39:56
know, like wireless earbuds, like our iPod, iPod, iPod.
40:01
What do you call that? Max.
40:04
Or yeah, like, I mean, you gotta keep it professional, right?
40:08
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, that's that's why it's
40:14
always as an interpreter. I always as you, you suggesting
40:19
you have find, find a quiet place like Allah.
40:23
I like that when Alan he put that on his e-mail like found
40:27
the quiet place is is important. Since you know your job.
40:33
Don't don't tell me like if you got a surprise like with the
40:36
client last minute. I understand you take it.
40:38
But if you're doing that professional job because that
40:42
also it does embarrass the tech, the tech 2 is can you do
40:47
something like the client, he goes to the tech right away.
40:50
Can you do something? I don't you know, I hear noise,
40:52
I hear dad, I hear dad. I hear that.
40:53
Well, so as as a professional interpreter has.
40:56
That's right. Yeah, that's right.
40:58
I mean, I've I I don't want to go into a rant here, but
41:03
sometimes when I see, when I clearly see, although we're
41:08
remote, that my booth partner is either and the kitchen counter
41:14
and you hear people behind or you hear a microwave or you hear
41:19
dog outside or a motorcycle because you're yeah, God knows
41:22
where or you're doing this from your car.
41:25
Yes, I've seen that. I've heard that.
41:27
Not going to name who you know who you are then.
41:32
Then I mean, for me at least, I wanna make sure in my case that
41:38
I'm always professional and that I'm in my studio, that I have a
41:41
high quality microphone, that I have a wired connection.
41:44
Everything is wired. And I'm going to make sure for
41:47
my client, for myself and for my booth partner that I'm always at
41:53
the top of my game. Because the other thing too is
41:55
like say I hire an interpreter but then I hire web Switcher to
42:00
be able to do the interface. So then and the interpreter is
42:04
like using Airpods like I had that that interpreter is going
42:08
to make himself look bad. He's gonna make UN language
42:11
services look back is gonna make web Switcher look bad.
42:14
Like it just it's such a snowball effect when you're
42:17
using like basically shitty equipment for your to be able to
42:21
do professional job. Yeah.
42:24
Well, I mean, and I, I, I don't understand honestly how
42:31
interpreters who have now to rely on technology and you know
42:38
that we're being remote and it's now your responsibility to make
42:42
sure that you provide the best sound quality.
42:44
I understand that before when interpreters just got into Booth
42:47
didn't have to take care of any part of the technical aspect.
42:51
They just sat there and then it was it was the technicians
42:54
responsibility to take care of all of that.
42:57
I understand that interpreters didn't really care before, but
43:00
in the last 5-6 years the world has changed and I don't
43:05
understand how people can still get $5 headsets to perform at
43:11
the highest level. Or maybe they don't want to.
43:14
Professional job, yeah, yeah. And plus, plus interpreter if
43:19
even if you go to a school, I, I can't go to a school, learn
43:22
interpretation because I didn't have that, that passion or I
43:25
didn't have it's, I always tell them interpreters started in a
43:29
passion first. They do, they do interpretation
43:31
in the school, they do interpretation and maybe in a,
43:34
in a courthouse or something. This is how they start.
43:36
And then they decide to go study.
43:38
So it's, it's, it's in. So it's a very professional,
43:43
yeah, very professional career. So, so don't don't let it let it
43:48
let it you know, go for for small, small cost headset or
43:54
something, Yeah. Yeah.
43:55
And you, you can't slip or else like you might as well just give
43:58
your job over to AI. And Speaking of which, it's a
44:01
kind of a good transition because you have had experience
44:04
with both right and life people doing interpretation and AI
44:09
doing interpretation. Exactly.
44:11
Yeah, I do the AI I explained before the AI.
44:17
First of all, AI, you can't if it's going, if you stop it,
44:25
we're talking about alive not recording that you could edit
44:29
and something else you could correct it.
44:31
I'm talking about live event. Yeah, live event using AI up to
44:37
date and I could say for another I'll give it another maybe at
44:43
least four or five years. There is a, there is a big
44:46
errors especially and you, you see it in a, in a big government
44:54
meetings or, or big high profile.
44:58
Let's say one of your clients like very high profile is like
45:03
last time. Sometimes he starts speaking in
45:06
English. I'm talking about Canada now
45:08
English. And then he he switches to
45:10
French. In the same sentence sometimes.
45:13
Yeah, in the same sentence exactly.
45:17
So the AI, what it what it does, it takes samples of the language
45:23
and and then then do the interpretation for it.
45:28
That time here it's there is a there is a adjustment.
45:35
The AI companies having trouble is adjusting the samples how
45:42
long? Because, you know, as a
45:43
language, sometimes the sentence is long, sometimes it's shorter.
45:47
Now one day shorter. The sample take that language,
45:52
the AI doesn't understand the means of that anymore.
45:58
If you don't take a long sentence for the AI to
46:01
understand the the content of that meeting.
46:05
So he might, he might after, after he he, he does one phrase
46:10
right, the other phrase wrong. So you tell me as an
46:14
interpreter, if I get phrases back and forth wrong, right?
46:18
What's going to happen here? Well, maybe once, maybe once,
46:21
maybe once. It's not that bad.
46:22
Do that for the whole day. I mean, because conferences
46:25
usually last a whole day and if the whole, for the whole day,
46:28
you've got a number of errors that are so high, then it's
46:33
going to get annoying for everyone.
46:35
And if, if interpretation is important for you, you're not
46:40
going to tolerate that if you just think, oh, you know what?
46:42
I just, I just need something to, to make sure that it's in
46:46
both languages. And I don't really care if
46:48
people understand, that's one thing.
46:50
But if the level of error is too high, then exactly even 10%
46:56
would be too high, even 5%. A second second error.
47:01
So taking the samples so so if they shorter that that sample of
47:06
of picking up and and interpreting.
47:09
So that's first error. Second error could happen.
47:13
I'm talking on the microphone here and I'm doing a conference
47:18
and for some reason the microphone did pick up a
47:21
different sound. Somebody maybe telling him, OK,
47:24
can you shoulder this? The AI is gonna interpret that
47:28
it's gonna pick up. He doesn't know who's talking
47:31
they are. It doesn't distinguish.
47:32
OK, I have to to just interpreter this person only
47:36
that voice. No, because he's he's he's
47:40
getting a feed that to do interpretation.
47:44
So if if two people are discussing 11 talking like
47:50
little bit let's say with overlapping each other or
47:53
something, they I would lose it. Hmm.
47:57
Yes, humans, we can distinguish who's talking DIY.
48:00
As as as a real interpreter exactly.
48:02
And and I'm happy that that you brought this.
48:07
This subject is it's is so important now the AI now for
48:13
that reason. So second thing, picking up a
48:16
different voice, that's the problem.
48:18
Third thing is everybody has the same accent.
48:23
Is everybody has the same quality?
48:26
Is it noisy environment? Is a, is the AI where able?
48:31
Sometimes the sound is good, sometimes it's bad.
48:34
Now the the real interpreter, he could talk to me, he could tell
48:38
me, he could keep trying, keep trying as an interpreter, but at
48:42
least you don't make an error. Even if you're if, let's say if
48:46
you pause, at least you pause the conference.
48:48
But what's going to happen to the AI?
48:50
Can you start pausing doing like you're dealing with the
48:54
computers? So that's another error here is
48:58
is about the the sound quality if it's noisy or talking far
49:05
away, so. So but what if we wouldn't say?
49:07
Different interpretation. But wouldn't I be more work for
49:10
the technician? Because the technician already
49:13
has to take care of everything, the event, the microphone, the
49:15
sound quality, the the, the bandwidth, you name it.
49:18
Then if the technician has to take care on top of that of the
49:22
quality of the interpretation, which is usually the domain of
49:25
another human being with another profession, then it gives even
49:29
more work to the technician, and maybe technicians don't want to
49:32
take care of that. Of course, because it it puts it
49:36
say it in a different way puts more stress on the deck.
49:41
Right. More responsibility.
49:43
More responsibility. So then he had to get a second
49:46
tech out somebody, as you said, another, another person in
49:50
charge. He's just in charge for the AI
49:53
because it's live, OK if something, if something goes
49:58
wrong, OK. I'm not responsive because I'm
50:00
dealing with computers here and connection.
50:03
Now if the second thing very important, the lag for the AI,
50:10
if anybody like we tried so many of the AI we're trying to do,
50:17
you know, learning, you take the agent, you, you make it learn.
50:22
Yes, it's getting, it's getting there.
50:24
You have to, you have to, but it's not it's in progress, but
50:30
it's not before 5-6 years now. But as you said, it's always
50:35
gonna take a second tech. It's always gonna take a, a
50:41
professional like a second backup.
50:43
You have to have a backup. What happened if I for some
50:46
reason, last time we heard the you hear it with the big, I was
50:53
doing a video conference on Google yesterday.
50:55
Maybe they had to do an upgrade or something.
50:57
I get disconnected from Google. So, so things like that could
51:02
happen. Nobody guarantee you 100% now
51:05
second thing if if doing interpretation the first hour
51:10
for some reason was a big load on on because you know everybody
51:15
knows the the big players now made that charge PT there is and
51:19
also you're dealing also with the voice.
51:21
What happened is you're doing what what the AI does now it
51:25
takes the wording translate and then translate change from text
51:30
to audio. So this delay here, there's a
51:33
delay now after an hour doing interpretation all day, I
51:37
everything is fine. And after the delay is let's say
51:41
7 seconds, then it goes up to 10 second and then by two hours
51:46
it's gonna go 22nd. So now the client is looking at
51:50
the screen. There's a slide he's talking
51:52
about let's say the the numbers of the last year AGM and then
52:00
the interpretation talking about the the sentences that he was,
52:05
he was talking 22nd ago on a different slide.
52:08
So the sinking that that lag is very bad on live event.
52:16
So there's a lag that that starts to get longer as the AI
52:23
interprets and it builds and builds and builds.
52:26
And then I was trying to get, you know, it's trying to catch
52:29
up. But I've got, I've got a
52:31
question here. You keep saying four or five
52:33
years, things may be different. But I mean, I think I may have a
52:38
second opinion here and let me know what you think.
52:40
I think that it's more like self driving cars.
52:45
So self driving cars until they're not 100% or maybe 110%,
52:52
yeah, people won't trust it for something important.
52:58
So people can accept errors from human, people cannot accept
53:03
errors from machine as well. So even if the technology gets
53:07
very, very close, we'll still going to rely on humans because
53:12
ultimately, when something is really important, we're going to
53:16
think that human judgment is better than maybe the machine
53:19
will screw up this time. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
53:23
You're right. I agree.
53:25
In five years, what I'm saying is give you an example, let's
53:30
say video conferencing before client used to call set up a
53:35
hardware for video conferencing for the camera and everything.
53:40
Now in in 5 seconds, you could open a link and get a
53:43
videoconference link and everybody log in.
53:45
What's gonna happen in five years maybe is gonna be on the
53:50
on this platform here. So I click a button and I get
53:54
entry predation invoice. Now the errors as you said, but
54:00
not on the important meetings. The important meetings is gonna
54:02
stay it's gonna that's a problem.
54:05
What's scary, it's a self-service that getting
54:11
embedded in the platforms. So give you an example now using
54:15
Zoom. Zoom is going to have soon,
54:16
let's say the the option to have the voice instead of the, the
54:21
channels that you inject the, the, the human interpreter
54:25
inside. So, so voice.
54:28
Now the errors of course are gonna be errors and all that.
54:31
But there's, there's too bad there's some, some people maybe
54:35
they, they will accept, they will accept that.
54:38
So we can't yeah. The problem is you can't stop
54:42
from progressing in technology because you're going to be left
54:45
behind. Now the professional
54:49
interpreter, if we're going on hybrid, the hybrid and the
54:55
hybrid and the live event, it's, it's a, it's a must for a live
55:00
interpreter because the cost of backup and connection and the
55:06
you pay per hour for the AI interpretation that cost, it's a
55:12
lot better with a real interpreter.
55:16
Thinking about the price, I'm like, you're paying for the AI
55:19
service, plus you're paying for a technician to monitor it.
55:22
And the end of the day, you're not really saving any money
55:25
unless you're like doing, say, A10 language conference.
55:28
Like, yeah, then you're not gonna pay 10 teams of
55:32
interpreters. You're gonna pay for one.
55:34
Exactly. I Right?
55:36
Yeah, exactly. In and now, yeah.
55:39
And in five years, I see it more into a trade shows.
55:42
When you walk into a trade show, there's speaking one language,
55:46
let's say the demonstration in English.
55:48
Then you could take your you scan the barcode with your phone
55:51
and you get you get an idea, but it's never a real meaning that
55:55
you really want to get the right message to you.
55:59
Trade show is very powerful. Now in trade show, they say say
56:02
as this session is being interpreted in 10 different
56:06
languages. Yeah, but like is there, but at
56:09
least they cover, they cover their, you know, their job by
56:16
saying we're supplying simultaneous interpretation.
56:20
Sometimes people they take it. OK, do you offer some attention
56:24
translation. So then they offer it.
56:27
Now this is a self-service side. Now if they go on on a trade
56:32
show, on a trade show, they just take that.
56:34
They just take the the the Micron feed and they feed it
56:38
into a computer and they let it go.
56:40
Now what it does after? Good luck.
56:49
Good luck. Yeah, yeah.
56:50
So. Well, maybe it's it's gibberish
56:53
and people don't even notice or complain about it.
56:55
Yeah, and I was just thinking too about the whole 10 language
56:57
and you're saving money. But if you're going to hire, if
57:00
you're going to need to do a conference where you need 10
57:02
different languages, you're gonna need things to be pretty
57:04
precise. So yeah, scratch what I said.
57:08
Yeah, but what they're doing now, they, they're getting
57:11
right, right interpreters in Europe.
57:15
Yeah, being on the ISO committee, we have it, we have
57:19
we talked to all the technicians across, across Europe, in Europe
57:24
is very, you know, most, most meetings 5-6 languages.
57:29
So they get one live interpreter, human interpreter,
57:33
right. Yeah.
57:35
And then they they take your, your, your interpretation and
57:39
they feed it into other languages because they know
57:42
you're doing the right interpretation and they feed it
57:44
to the other languages. And then they get it.
57:47
I feel so sorry they. Yeah.
57:51
They use your voice to to to to to get the other languages, yes,
57:56
with the eye. This is they cheating on the
57:57
technology is they take a year, yeah.
58:00
I feel violated. Yeah.
58:05
But at least, yeah, you're doing important languages, English and
58:09
French, so which is absolutely. That's in Canada, yeah,
58:12
especially. In Canada, that's for sure.
58:14
Yeah, but anyways, this was. Foreign languages are very hard
58:17
now they everybody's using AI. Foreign languages is very, very
58:21
tough. Even even English now it's
58:24
becoming harder and harder for people because people use AI to
58:26
sell, to spell check their own mistakes and to write their
58:30
emails. So you won't even be able to
58:34
write anymore or read or, you know, oh, I can't read,
58:39
summarize it. I can't write spell check this
58:41
e-mail, I can't talk, use the AI.
58:45
So basically you will will be like I don't know, the AI will.
58:50
Take over what take over AI, It's fortunately like like that
58:56
is like in an especially technology.
58:58
Everybody has the cell phones. They you know, you live, you
59:03
only need the car with technology, only need a home
59:07
appliances with technology now it doesn't stop.
59:12
You know, this, this is like a I'm, I'm, I might digress here,
59:16
but I'm teaching my son to drive and now he has to park and now
59:21
there's a camera, right? So he can just follow the line.
59:24
And I'm like, geez, when I was young, I would just do like
59:27
this. And then it was just put my hand
59:30
there. And now, OK, I would drive.
59:31
Yeah, I would just part very quickly.
59:33
But now you know, you gotta follow the little line with the
59:35
little camera, Like, come on. Yeah, my charge, my card.
59:39
Does the parallel parking on its own.
59:41
No, just press a button. Oh my God.
59:44
Yeah, I don't trust it. Yeah, I'll do it.
59:46
Myself, I was never. Yeah.
59:47
Yeah. But you don't trust it, Brian,
59:49
right? Yeah.
59:49
You you do it yourself. Yeah, exactly.
59:51
Yeah, me too. I've, I look in the camera.
59:54
I I close it after and I do it. You have to turn your neck.
59:58
Exactly. Yeah.
1:00:00
You have to. Anyways, this is this has been
1:00:03
an an awesome hour. I wish we had more time, but
1:00:06
this was an amazing overview of what you've done as an
1:00:10
entrepreneur. You've really done some
1:00:12
incredible things throughout the years and and I love I've I've
1:00:15
loved working for you, for you, for the.
1:00:17
Last, thank you and us as well as is it's a key like A1 turnkey
1:00:22
system with the UN languages and bringing to the client.
1:00:27
And this is what we want always, always a key system that at the
1:00:33
end of point is we were both working on happy client
1:00:36
absolutely. Yeah, alright, happy clients,
1:00:38
happy interpreters, happy everyone.
1:00:41
Don't forget everyone like share, subscribe, comment and
1:00:46
found out about all of these great technologies that we
1:00:50
talked about. All right, Mohammed, thank you,
1:00:55
Brian. I'll give you the last word.
1:00:57
Yes, thank you again Mohammed for sharing all your insights
1:01:00
and all your your forecasting of the future with AI and and yeah,
1:01:07
best of luck for the years to come and say hi to best for us,
1:01:10
OK. Thank you very much and all the
1:01:13
best and enjoy your holiday and looking forward to work with you
1:01:17
next year. Sounds.
1:01:18
Good with the best best audio. Alright.
1:01:21
See you next time. Take care.
1:01:22
Thank you. Thank you.