Latest / What is Business Development? / Episode 76: BD Leader...Top 3 Tactics from Rissa Reddan, CMO and Board Member

Transcript

Episode 76: BD Leader...Top 3 Tactics from Rissa Reddan, CMO and Board Member · What is Business Development?

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Business Development podcast, brought to you by
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: the Global Business Development Association, delivering the strategies and tactics
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: to boost your career and corporate growth.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Hello bd pros, and welcome to the Global Business Development
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Association podcast called what is Business Development?
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: Now?
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Folks will often say, well, business development, entrepreneurship, but you
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: know what those are just part art and part science. Now, look,
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: if you want to get some of that art and science,
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: you can go to the GBDA website and you can
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: learn a lot there by getting your copy of the
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Business Development Body of Knowledge, the bd BOCK reading that
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: book so that you then can pass your BDP, your
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Business Development Professional certification through GBDA, and that book is
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: available on Amazon. It's also available on the website. But
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: if you can't wait to read the book, well we
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: have a treat for you today. We have an expert,
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: a fantastic person who knows both the art and science
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: of entrepreneurship, marketing and business development. Our guest today is
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Risa Reddin and Risa is an MBA graduate of the
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: University of Chicago Booth School of Business, where she also
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: pursued concentrations in strategy and marketing. She is a three
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: time chief marketing officer and a trusted advisor to the
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: c suite and to boards. She has experience in financial services,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: data analytics, and professional services businesses as both an executive
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: and a board member, and she brings deep knowledge of
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: go to market strategies, M and A, integration both the
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: buyside and the sell side, and digital transformation. Her experiencing
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: spans the entire growth phases of businesses from early stage,
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: the growth stage, and large public and private companies. She
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: spent more than seven years on early stage wellness and
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: mental health company boards and more than twenty years on
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  Speaker 2: nonprofit boards, and she also gives back to the community
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: through the Embark Collective. Embark member companies have received ninety
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: six percent survival rate and created one thy two hundred
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: tech jobs and raised more than six hundred million dollars
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: in funding, contributing almost two hundred million dollars annually in
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: wages and growth capital to Florida's economy. Wow. Risa Reddin,
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the show.
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: Thank you so it's a delight to be with you.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Riss. You know such exceptional depth in your background, tremendous
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: knowledge about marketing and marketing not just as an executive leader,
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: which you've done that many times before at every phase
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: of growth in a business, but also your depth in
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  Speaker 2: supporting as a board member, and so you know, just
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: tremendous visibility frame. You know what you've seen in your career.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: I think so many business developers can learn from And
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: some business developers may be listening to this thinking, wait
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: a second, I'm I'm a BD person. I don't do marketing. Well,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: guess what, folks, When you read through the Business Development
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: body of knowledge, we go through the entire customer journey.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: And where does every customer journey start. It starts at
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: the awareness phase of the customer journey. That is the
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: domain of marketing, and they have a primary mission of
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: gaining the attention of your prospects. Then those leads moved
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: into the activation phase, which is where you, the business developer,
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: often get involved in the prospecting phase. So understanding what
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: marketing does is critical to your success as a business
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: developer and for the success of the entire go to
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: market team that's marketing, business development, and sales. So Risa,
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: tell us a little bit. How did you start in
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: the marketing profession?
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: Sure, I really fell in love with marketing and business school.
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  Speaker 3: As you mentioned, I attended University of Chicago, and I
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: really loved that combination of art and science that you
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: find in marketing. And to the point that you raised,
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: I love your perspective on go to market is a
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: team sport and we all need to be reading from
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: the same playbook. And marketing has a different role to
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: play than sales or BD, but it's so connected and
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: we all need to be in lockste up when we're
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: thinking about how to drive awareness, how to really create
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: that demand in the marketplace for what it is that
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: we have. And so, getting back to your original question,
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: I fell in love with marketing at University of Chicago.
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: I remember sitting in a classroom with frost Le Clerk
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: and I just remember thinking a light bulb has gone
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  Speaker 3: on for me, that this is really what I love
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  Speaker 3: and it really fuels me and fires me up in
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: a way that I had not encountered with other disciplines. Yeah.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Well, let's face it, marketing people have so much fun.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: That's right, we do. It is just it's cool work. Okay,
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  Speaker 2: maybe almost as cool as business development.
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  Speaker 1: I've got.
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  Speaker 2: Look, getting right back down to it, business developers, you
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  Speaker 2: really need to understand marketing and you can apply a
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  Speaker 2: lot of the principles of marketing to your day to
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  Speaker 2: day because now business developers are creating a lot of
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: their own content, They're creating their own brands. So you
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: are your own chief marketing officer as a business developer
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: because the company you're with today you may not be
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: with them in the future. Everybody knows that, and so
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: building your own personal brand is something that will carry
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: you forward way beyond just what you do within your corporation.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: And you can learn a lot today from Rissa about
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: her top three tactics and takeaways about marketing that business
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: developers need to know. So, Rissa, can you share with
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: us what's your top go to tactic in marketing?
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: So I've got a lot of them. And before I
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: mentioned the three, I do want to piggyback off of
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: something that you just said, Tony around personal brand. And
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: I think that there's such importance around developing your personal
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: brand but then also connecting it to your corporate brand
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: that I think that there is something really authentic and
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: beautiful when people do that well. And I think that
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: you don't need the brands to be the same. You
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: need to create a connection between them, and I think
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: that that's where that's where there's some art, if you will,
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: and something that I love to see, whether that's a
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  Speaker 3: LinkedIn post or something else that something somebody might be
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: be doing. But getting to the three tactics, I number one,
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: I'm a huge fan of podcasting. That is probably not
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: a surprise, but podcasting. I've used podcast programs as a
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: real way to unite the go to market team, and
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: it's it's thinking through, who are we prospecting, how might
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: we invite that prospect to be a guest on the podcast?
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: And are there other opportunities, whether it's in advance of
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: an upcoming event or a partnership that we're establishing. But
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: I think that there's a lot of really nice opportunity
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: to extend the invitation, and even if somebody declines, I
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: think that that's still a really beautiful touch point to
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: your point drive awareness, to let people know who we are,
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: what we're doing. I think that that's really powerful. And
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: in my own experience, we had somebody on, we had
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: a guest on and at the end when we were
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: just wrapping up the guess that, oh, I'd like to
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: make an introduction for you to your chief digital officer,
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: and that conversation landed a two million dollar opportunity for
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: the business. So I think, you know, it's such a
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: relationship development tool, it's a business development tool, it's a
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: marketing tool. I think that it's a really fantastic way
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: to build relationships in the marketplace. Number two, something that
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: I'm a huge fan of. I really love Megan Rowdybush
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: and her work Keep With and Keep What. This focused
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: on helping people better network, and she is a big
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: advocate of dedicated networking time that every week you put
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: it onto your calendar. I like to do that on
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: Fridays for whatever reason. I like to think about the
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: week that I had and the week that I'm about
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: to have, and who are the people that I haven't
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: talked to in a while, or is there a piece
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: of thought leadership that reminded me of somebody and I'm
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: going to send it over to them. But I think
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: that that's really nice to block the time, because otherwise
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: it just never seems to get done or it falls
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: to the bottom of the list. So dedicated networking time
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: is something that I am a big fan of, something
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: that I My third tactic that I've been experimenting with.
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: I just read an article from Ingrid fedal Lee and
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: I just love her. She wrote the book Joyful, and
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: it's something in her newsletter about how we engage in
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: conversation with people and it's a little bit of a gamification,
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: if you will. And it's this idea that when you
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: engage in an event or you meet somebody for the
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: first time, you avoid saying the word I or me
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: or mine, and it's all about listening to the person
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: before you and really engaging with the person before you,
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: versus waiting for them to finish talking so that you
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: can start talking. And so that's been something that I've
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: been playing around with and it sounds very simple, but
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: I feel like it's a little harder that I might
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: have anticipated. But it's been a really fun experiment. Oh, Tony,
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  Speaker 3: I lost you.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: I think you might be muted, so, uh yeah, I'm speechless. Rissa,
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  Speaker 2: I'll tell you what. You You really hit a point
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: that with the podcast I think is fantastic and about
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: the branding for business developers, because here's the thing. You
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: see so many of these LinkedIn posts from corporations, and
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: they are these stiff cardboard cutout posts of Hey, our
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: company is great because we just achieved X, y Z.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: Nobody cares. Look at you look at the comments, and
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: you look at the likes, and it's just from the
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: employees in the company. Nobody else cares. Nobody's commenting.
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: Why do you think that is?
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because it has zero value. You know, nobody's engaging
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: with it. It has zero value. And so that's why
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: I love what you say about podcasts using that as
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: it's a business development tool. Folks. Look, if you have
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: a prospect that you're trying to engage, and maybe they're
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: a large enterprise customer, well then work with the marketing
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: team to bring them on that CEO of the company
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: as a podcast guest, or maybe the chief growth officer,
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: maybe chief technology officer, if you have a technology solution,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: make them the hero of the show, and they are
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: providing so much value to your community. Not to mention,
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: you're leveraging their network of relationships because they end up
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: reposting it, commenting, sharing, so does their corporation. Typically it's
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: just a tremendously powerful tool that's just packed with value.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: When you bring somebody that is an expert on the
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: show and you know, you're you're you're delivering content as
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: a corporation. That's helpful. And you know, announcing even a
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: new employee, uh, you know, that's nice, that's nice. You
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: want to recognize them, but that's not the venue for it,
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: you know, that's all about value.
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: I would also offer to Tony. Something that I encourage
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: business development teams to do is to really leverage their
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: chief marketing officer. And I think that marketing can open doors,
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: can be a door opener. And I love it when
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: a business development approaches me and says, I see that
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: you know so and so on LinkedIn how well do
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: you know them? Could you broker an introduction for me?
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: That would be terrific. I'm a huge fan because I
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: do feel like a marketer reaching out can be seen
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: differently than a business developer reaching out, And so why
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: not leverage your teammates to help you? Yeah?
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, and that's wow. Okay, we're going to go down
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: a rabbit hole here. I love it. Let's bundle it
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: all under number two, which was the networking piece if
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: we can't, because this is another one of my pet peeves.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: If there are so many rich relationships within a corporation, yes,
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: and so many people are connected that you can leverage
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: as a business developer and just going into LinkedIn and seeing, okay,
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: who are your mutual connections? Oh great, my CFO knows
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: the person who's my prospect. Okay, leverage that relationship. You know,
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: particularly now that we're businesses are so virtualized and we're
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: not sitting around the water cooler, which never provided a
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: lot of value for me personally. But you know, it's
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: understanding who has relationships that you can leverage and who
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: also not just relationships, but who has the know how
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: within the corporation to maybe have a discussion with that individual. So,
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: for example, if your prospect is a CTO, bring your
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: CTO to the table.
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: One percent, because it's a different conversation. And I think
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: that peer to peer can unlock a lot of magic,
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: and I think that there is an openness to the
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: conversation when you go peer to peer.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so powerful when you do that. And then you know, okay,
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: let's just riff on this a little bit. Have this.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: If you're going to invite the CTO to be your
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: podcast guest, bring your CTO on that podcast as well,
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: or maybe even have the business developer on the podcast,
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: we'll better way for that business developer to build a
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: relationship with the decision maker one.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: Ndred percent And something that I like to do too,
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: when we're putting together questions for a podcast session, let
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: the bait bds wiyh in, like what are some things
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: that you would love to hear from this individual about
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: or you know, I really feel like it's such a
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: great opportunity. And you know, I've certainly had business developers,
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: you know, listening in because you know, there's a green
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: room function with podcasting, so you know, how do you
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: engage people in a way that's going to be meaningful?
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: And I think too it's kind of fun for people
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: to sit backstage, if you will, for a podcast taping.
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: We've certainly done that with account teams listening to their
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: client talking about a given topic. So I think there's
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: really there's a lot of opportunity. I think the challenge
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: becomes the orchestration that people are busy and they might
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: not have time to review or I think that that
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: can become the challenge. But I think making it as
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: inclusive as possible, I think is really important so that
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: people with expertise, whether that's technical expertise or relationship expertise
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: have an opportunity to bring that to the fore.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: Well, So let's also look at let's say it's an
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: entry level business developer, they're just starting off in a company.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: I think one of the things this could apply to
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: veteran business developers as well, you've been in the industry
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: a while. If you're applying at a particular company, one
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: of the things I would look at is what kind
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: of content are they posting on LinkedIn? What kind of
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: content is it the cardboard, cutout, stale, zero value content.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: That might be a point of struggle for you as
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: a business developer because obviously that organization culturally is not
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: secure with how effective content should be presented on LinkedIn
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: and social media, which is really the major channel these days.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: So that would be something I would look at, and
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: also look at what are the other business developers in
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: that company posting? Are they posting anything at all?
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: And I know, I'm sorry to interrupt you. I feel
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: like some of that could be driven off of the
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: regulatory environment in which the company operates, where you know,
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: does communication like LinkedIn have to be archived in some
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: form of fashions? I do feel like there can be
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: some regulatory considerations depending on the environment in which the
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: company operates. But I think that's a great point. And
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: with this podcast program that I was referencing, I had
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: a lot of people come up to me and say
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: I interviewed and part of my interview process was listening
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: to your podcast episodes because I wanted to get a
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: sense of who the company is and what you're all about.
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: And there's research out there that will tell you that
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: the person who is hosting the podcast becomes the most
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: trusted person at the company because people are able to
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: hear the personality come forward. And I think that there's
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: something really interesting about how best to leverage that. But
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: the program started off as a brand program, and then
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: it morphed into so much more, and then it even
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: became a bit of an employer brand tactic where people
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: were listening as part of their interview process and sharing
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: with people that were interviewing. So it really became this
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: very multifaceted program. Oh.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, the content you share, particularly the podcasts, are so
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: powerful for not only making your candidates aware of what
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: the culture of the company is, but also attracting candidates
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: that now have you know you're building trust when you're
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: conducting podcasts. Imber said, you know, the person that's running
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: the podcast is really the face of the business. So
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: and I like what you said. These are kind of
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: strategic level thoughts, so obviously you're putting your UH board
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: member had on when you say these things. Do you
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: think a CEO should be the podcast host?
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: I think that that's tricky because I think that you know,
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: it can take up a lot of time. As you
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: well know, creating a podcast is no small feed, and
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: when you commit to a podcast program, you really need
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: to make a commitment over time energy. So it's a
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: great question. I mean, if you can build the infrastructure
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: around the CEO to support that, great But I could
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: see too that you have a host who is not
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: the CEO but the CEOs of guests. I think it
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: depends on what role you want somebody to play, because
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: when you are the host, I think you're more interested
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: in drying out your guests, and you might miss the CEO,
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: might miss the opportunity to talk about his or her
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: platform and what current priorities are if that person's playing
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: the role of the host and not the role of
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: the guests.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Wow, tremendous insight, and that's why boards should have people
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: like you on their boards that have that kind of
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: strategic perspective. From a communications, a marketing, it really gets
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: down to advocating for the brand trust. And it just
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: seems like when you look at a lot of boards,
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: they just don't focus on that. They focus on other
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: aspects of the business that are important. But if you
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: really want to drive growth and you want to maintain
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: the security and the integrity of your brand, I think
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: you really need experts like you who know how to
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: do that, who have done that successfully over many years.
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: And to your point, Tony, I don't think there's a
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: board around that isn't focused on growth and to think about, well,
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: what does that mean and how do you peel back
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: the layers of what growth means? And it's the go
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: to market team and it's the collaboration and coordination. But
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: I think people sort of can be wishful thinking or
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: magically thinking about growth instead of really thinking about the
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: hard work that goes into growth. That it's easier said
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: than done.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: I think, yeah, well, it is easier said than done,
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: and that's why they need people like you who have
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: done it many times before successfully to guide the way.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: So okay, So I think podcasts, I'm a big fan
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: of that number one tactic, and I just think it's
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: so underutilized. But the second thing you mentioned was networking,
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: and we had Jason Levin on the show recently. He's
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: the author of a book on networking and just fascinating
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: talking about, you know, the strong connections, weak connections, that
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: sort of thing. I like what you said about just
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: booking time on your calendar or in making it a priority,
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: just like you know, brushing your teeth, just like working out.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: You know, you have to do it. Sometimes it's uncomfortable
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: for people to do it. Can you walk people kind
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: of through how how you actually do the networking? Obviously
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: you probably go on LinkedIn, you probably have some some companies,
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: you do want to engage, some individuals you do want
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: to engage, But you know, how do you kind of
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: walk through that? And then you know, once you are
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: connected with them, how do you kind of mature that
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: relationship and advance the relationship?
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: Sure, And I'll mention to somebody that I'm a huge
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: fan of is Nicholas Epley out of the University of Chicago,
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: and he's done research on talking to strangers. And the
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: research was conducted on a commuter train in the Chicagoland area.
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: And what I found fascinating about it is people might
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: not want to engage when they're on their commute, but
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: those who do are much more satisfied at the end
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: of that commute. And so I think that there's this
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: if it's a little bit like running. I don't love running,
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: but I love having run. I feel very virtuous, I
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: feel very strong after I've run, but the act of
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: running is a little bit uncomfortable, and I feel it's
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: maybe somewhat similar with networking that you're so happy that
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: you did it. You may not, you may feel a
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: little uncomfortable because you're putting yourself out there in the moment,
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: but then once you make that connection, it feels fantastic,
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: and then you want to do it again, and you
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: want to, you know, keep keep scaling and keep recreating that.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: But I think that you know, as far as tactics
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: that I like to use, and it's your point LinkedIn,
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: I feel like is my love language, and I spend
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: an awful lot of time there looking at what people
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: are up to and seeing, you know, what reminds me
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: of somebody else, like I love to tag somebody else
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: into somebody else's post because it just reminded me of them.
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: And I think that there's something really nice about when
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: people know that you're remembering them and oh, you know what,
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: I need to talk to Rissa about this thing that
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: I've got with this marketing project. And I think that
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: that artfully being top of mind with people that you
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: know you never want to stalk or you never want
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: to feel like you're aggressively pursuing people. It needs to
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: feel like in exchange. But I think to put some
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: things out there, you just never know what's going to
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: come back to you. But I think that allowing for
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: that magic to happen is a great one. And another
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: thing that I love from Nicholas Epley is I've struggled
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: with this in the past, this idea of it's been
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: too long since I talked to so and so, so
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: I'm just I'm not going to reach out. I'm not
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: going to I'm going to let that go. And he's
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: of the philosophy and has done research on this as
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: well that if you reach out to somebody, they feel
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: great because you've remembered them, and then you feel great
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: because they feel great, and so it creates this, you know,
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: very virtuous cycle. And I think that that's always important
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: to remember because you can feel like, oh, I said
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: I was going to follow up and I didn't, or
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: it's been too long or too much time has gone by,
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: and he's essentially saying that there's never too much time
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: that can go by that just do the thing and
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: reach out to the connection because you're ultimately going to
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: feel great about it at the end, and you're also
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: going to make somebody else feel really great. Yeah.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: Wow, Well, let's just start from the beginning there with
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: that the study that you referenced. I think that is
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: just so fascinating. People talking to just strangers on the subway.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: They felt so much better have with that conversation. And
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: you know, I think it's a fascinating study because my
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: experience on big city subways is it's really a binary
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: outcome when you talk to somebody on the subway. You know,
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: either either they engage in conversation or you get mugged.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: So so what do you have to lose just have
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: that conversation. The worst you can lose is your money. No,
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: but I mean all kidding aside having those conversations. If you,
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: I think, approach from the perspective of a giving place,
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: right Risa. I mean, yes, you know, I whether it's
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: a stranger, I'm here to share my joy with you.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: You know, let's banter, let's have fun. It's almost a playfulness.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: But also when you're talking to prospects, is what can
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: I do to help you? And I think that's what
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: you're really saying, is you know, even those those weak
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: ties that maybe okay, you said you were going to
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: get back in touch with them, you know, just do it.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Just do it, because it's just like a workout. Nobody
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: loves working out, per se, but everybody I do it
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: all the time. I finished the workout and I go, wow,
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: that was I'm glad I did that.
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: You never regret. You never regret working out.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And so you know, networking is a muscle group.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: That's right, if you're a business developer or really any professional,
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: and so just do it, just plan the time, just
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: do it. Jason Levin had a great kind of way
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: of doing that. He said from the studies that he ran.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: If you reach out to one of those old week
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: ties and you reference something that was an event that
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: you both enjoyed and you say, hey, I remember that
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: time we did X Y Z. It just you know,
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: adds a little something to that. And then, you know,
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: what I've also seen is if you give them something
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: of value, Hey, I just saw this newspaper article. I
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: thought it'd be great. Look these statistics might be helpful
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: to you, you know, just a little bit. Again from
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: that giving mindset, I think this is so powerful. What
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: you're talking about with tactic number two risa okay, So
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: let's bring it home with tactic number three.
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: So tag to number three listening. And I think that
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: you know, everybody believes that they're a good listener, but
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: some people are better listeners than others and others, And
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: I think when you encounter somebody who is an incredible listener,
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: it's like the world has fallen away and you are
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: the only thing there. And I think to give that
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: as a gift to somebody else by by focusing your
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: attention on them, I think can be really incredible.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: So when you say being a great listener, what do
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: you mean by that? Like, how how do you demonstrate
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: being a great listener?
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: I love to ask questions, and this is something that
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: I wish I had done earlier in my career that
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: I think that we fall into a trap of well,
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: I'm smart, so I need to have the answers, not
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: ask for answers. And I think that that's such a misstep.
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: And if I could go back and redo my twenties,
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: that's what I would I would do because I think
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: to be curious is such an attractive quality and you
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: never know what that will yield or what that will
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: lead to. But I think I love questions, and I
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: love Esther Choy's book, I let the story do the work.
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: She has a focus on crazy good questions, and it's
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: twenty great questions that you can ask. And it might
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: be things like, what's something that you've spent far, you've
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: spent a considerable time and energy on and you have
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: zero regrets? Or you know, what's one how or room
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: in your house that you would double if you could,
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: or you know, really interesting questions. And I think that
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: they're joyful, these questions, you know, to your earlier point,
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: and to really let people lead with their joy is
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: such a gift.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So what what room would you double in
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: your house?
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: Oh that's a great question. Probably the music room you
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: can't see it behind me, but I'm upstairs with the
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: with the music room, and that would be fund to
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: add a little stage to the music room maybe.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what kind of music? What instrument?
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: So I sing and my husband plays guitar, and we
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: have a band called The Every Anythings, And it's been
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: a while since we've played out, but we need to
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: get back at it. But we'll play open mic nights.
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: And it's such a great metaphor for any relationship where
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: you're outperforming and something inevitably is going to go wrong
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: and you just got to keep playing.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, But Every Anything. I love the band, and it's it's.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: It's a reference to E. Cummings. But then it's also
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: because we play just a little bit of everything and anything.
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: It's just things that we like. So it's a mishmash
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: of eighties covers and some nineties and some two thousands,
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: so it's a it's a it's a ton of fun.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think Every Anything also adequately describes the job
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: description of every chief marketing office. Yes, out there, it's fraud. Yeah,
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: do everything, do anything, make it look great and be
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: a big success and generate a lot of money for.
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: Us with a very small budget.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, so folks listen. Listen. If you know of a
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: company that needs a board member that can do everything
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: and anything, has done it, Rissa Reddin is the person
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: for that board. If you know a startup, if you
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: know another company that needs a fractional chief marketing op sir,
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: because everything and anything is getting completely out of hand,
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: he them reach out to Risa. Rissa. How can folks
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: follow your work? How can they engage with you? Connect
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: with you?
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: Please find me on LinkedIn. I would love to connect
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: follow along with what I'm up to, engage with my
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: LinkedIn posts, but I would love to see you there.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: Okay, great, well, Rissa. Thank you. We'll have a link
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: to your LinkedIn profile in the show notes so folks
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: can follow and connect with Rissa there. Rissa, thank you
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: so much for sharing your wisdom, your insights, and your
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: experience with us today. A tremendous contribution to the business
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: development profession.
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you so much, Tony, it was my treat.
• 30:43
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• 30:48
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• 30:52
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• 30:57
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