Latest / Mortgage Marketing Radio / Ep #84: How a "Real" Facebook Marketing Ninja Generated Over 50,000 Leads and $100 Million in Sales for His Real Estate and Mortgage Clients

Transcript

Ep #84: How a "Real" Facebook Marketing Ninja Generated Over 50,000 Leads and $100 Million in Sales for His Real Estate and Mortgage Clients · Mortgage Marketing Radio

0:00
In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with
0:04
the real estate agents is essential for success.
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However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge.
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With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents, it
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can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections.
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Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Cogill is a must-read.
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Chris has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals.
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And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships
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with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business.
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To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy
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of the case study today.
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You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million
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in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can too.
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Don't miss out.
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Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today.
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Welcome to Mortgage Marketing Radio.
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And brought to you by the Mortgage Marketing Institute, your number one source for truth
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in mortgage marketing.
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Hey listeners, you know what it is?
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It's Jeff Zimfer, your host, your humble host.
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Man, oh man, I have been on a roll when it comes to these podcasts.
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I hope you are feeling it.
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I hope you are getting the love.
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I hope you're getting the content, the education, the value, the reason why you keep tuning in
1:53
and coming back to these podcasts.
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That's what it's all about.
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It's all about you and educating you and helping you grow your business, get more effective,
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become a modern mortgage originator, increase your sales and conversions, get more real
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to referral partners, and dog gonna just have fun doing it, right?
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Isn't that why we're here?
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Okay.
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This week's episode, man, I'm just digging it.
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This was every time I do these, it's an education for myself.
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So my special guest this week is Facebook Marketing Strategist, Coach and Consultant Travis
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Tom.
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Travis Tom might be the best kept secret in the mortgage real estate space, pretty well known
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in the real estate industry, not so well known perhaps, but that's about to change because
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of this episode in the mortgage industry.
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I was introduced or heard about Travis at a conference I was attending and I heard them
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talk about this guy Travis and him doing all these incredible things when it comes to
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Facebook, building audiences and leads and really having a deeper understanding of online
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consumer psychology, building this is gonna get crazy, right?
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But hang with me here, psychographic campaigns, buyer posts, personas, right?
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To really be able to craft an architect, the right campaigns with the right messaging
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to the right audience.
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And in this conversation with Travis, I've talked to a number of people, some on this
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podcast whom you've heard already, who are known for Facebook and running ads.
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But on this episode, I literally took, can you hear it right here, can you hear this?
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I took two pages at least of notes, two pages of notes.
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This was an incredible deep dive education into things that I didn't know about Facebook
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that I thought I knew.
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So if you're into, hey man, how do I succeed on Facebook?
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I want to get started.
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I want to start running my own ads, building some consumer direct business.
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I want to increase my presence, my brand online.
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I want to not rely on realtors so much.
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This is for you.
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We're going to dive into lots of different things in here from ad creation to creating many
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seller and buyer funnels, understanding the audience and demographics, custom audiences.
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It Travis tells me more about the Facebook algorithm I think than I've ever heard, right?
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In an way that I actually understand it.
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Then we start diving into the optimization strategies that go into really having a successful
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Facebook ad campaign.
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And again, this comes back to the copy, the intent of the offer.
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And then what does that funnel process look like?
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So you optimize your conversion.
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We talk about budgeting, how long you should expect to wait for Facebook ad to even perform
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and start to give you an idea of if this ad is going to work for you or not.
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A little bit about automating some workflows.
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And we talk about the changes with the Facebook targeting options that have since been taken
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away since the whole Cambridge Analytica debacle and the hearings that Mark Zuckerberg had
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to appear.
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And some of the changes that have happened to Facebook, but why?
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It's actually ultimately kind of a good thing and how Travis is seeing that and spending
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that into a positive.
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What's really cool about this is we get into the methodology, right?
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A priming and reminding and retargeting is one of the things Travis believes in.
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Priming, reminding and retargeting.
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So you hear that alone and that's worth your time in listening to this podcast and all
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the other things that we unpack on this call here today.
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So there's going to be links in the show notes to Travis and his company and his services.
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He's got a variety of different things he's doing out there, which includes something
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called leads to listing, which is part of his company called elevated REM.
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These are like single property websites.
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For example, if you're interested in and you don't have access to single property websites
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at your company and you'd want to learn more about those, how do you maybe offer those
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to your realtor partners, learn more about those at leads to listing.com.
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Again, all these things are in the show notes.
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Travis has a complete Facebook coaching group on Facebook.
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He just does so many different things.
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He's got his own ad agency where he's running ads for lots of big companies and then individual
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people and spending tens of thousands of dollars per month on Facebook specifically for real
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estate.
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So he gets to see a really broad spectrum of what's working, what's not working, the types
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of campaigns that are generating results and as I said, really, how do you optimize it
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so that you don't burn a lot of time, burn a lot of money and making sure you have your
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expectations set correctly from the get go.
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So how's that for a set up?
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Huge fan of Travis's dig into this episode, take notes, contact him in his company for
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more information.
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If you want to go to his direct personal website, that's Travis Tom.com, that's T-R-A-V-I-S-T-H-O-M.
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Again, all links in the show notes, more good stuff in there and I hope you enjoyed
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this week's episode just like I did.
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So let's get into this week's show.
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Hey, Travis, welcome to the show.
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Hey, thank you very much for having me, I really appreciate it.
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You bet.
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So, no, you're busy.
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You're doing a lot of things, a lot of irons in the fire as most of us are, my listeners
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as well.
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One of the have you here because you came across my radar at a recent mortgage conference
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I was attending, your name was brought up as one of the go to legit real deal guys when
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it comes to what's really working on Facebook specific to real estate and of course we're in
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the mortgage space and so I do the formula, as I said, everybody kind of heard the bio and
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who you are, what you do.
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But quick summary, one should give us your version of what you're all about, your agency
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and all that.
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Certainly.
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So I'm a Facebook marketing strategist and over the past several years we've generated
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over 75,000 leads from Facebook all from the real estate industry when campaigns internationally
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worldwide.
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So we're on Australia, Bundden, New Zealand, Canada, Mexico and throughout the U.S.
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Our advertising agency is focused on a full funnel type of approach.
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So we build campaigns with a methodology of top funnel, middle funnel, bottom of funnel
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kind of campaigns.
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Really dialing into the psychographic, demographic online and offline behaviors.
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So we use big data to really define exactly what consumers are doing and take them through
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a unique conversion process based on the actual behaviors that they take online and then
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retargeting them throughout the lifetime of the campaign as they are since texts and emails.
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With all of that data, we then love to teach.
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So we turn around and we actually teach people how to build those same campaigns.
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What's working right now.
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So we have a creative copywriter, operation manager, ad managers, graphic design team, funnel
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engineers, and myself as a strategist.
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And we're all inside of a Facebook coaching and training program where we walk people
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exactly through our methodologies, our steps, our processes.
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Some people are sharing and really being able to educate people so they can do it themselves
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if they can't hire us.
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Okay, very cool.
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So there's a lot of info in there and for some of the listeners, they might be saying,
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what does that all mean?
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I'm curious though, in terms of who you serve in the real estate space, are you dealing
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with individual agents, more teams or brokerages?
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What does that look like?
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We're pretty much all across the map.
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We have large companies that we work with, like Fidelity National Title.
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We work with other large companies that are, well, I can't say all of them, but just
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know that there's companies that are big teams.
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And then we have people that are typically our most typical client is going to be larger
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teams.
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Okay, so we work with AdSpin, anywhere from a couple of thousands a month, all the way
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up to 25 to 35,000 a month and a higher per campaign, it just depends on who the client
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is.
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We also work with individual agents and work with individual mortgage brokers.
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Those are typically inside of our training program, our Facebook coaching and training program.
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We send those, there's not necessarily resources to build blockages, campaigns that are
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put the scale on a national level.
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They're more of a local ones which are similar to my favorite because we get to see unique
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media results that are a little bit more tailored to the exact market area.
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So we're definitely all across the board.
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Okay, so thank you for that.
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So my listeners, loan officers, I want to try and cover a couple of bases in this conversation.
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One is I see a lot of loan officers trying to what I will say, trying to take a shortcut
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route and trying to circumvent the traditional method of growing their purchase referral business
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in pursuing relationships with realtors.
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I see loan officers trying to go, you know, the buzzword is consumer direct.
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And then I see them kind of chasing the elusive siren of, hey, man, Facebook, just run
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some ads and generate thousands of leads.
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What do you, if any, advice or roadblocks, landmines to look out for, traps, not the fall
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in, anything you want to bring to the surface for that person?
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I would, you know, Facebook is a wonderful place and it's for your advertisers and for
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the user experience, but it is a discovery platform.
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So a lot of these people are coming off of a search engine where they've done some searching
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individually and then they're on Facebook to escape maybe the world, whatever it is.
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The last thing that one is a direct offer that is too focused on the needs of the loan
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officer and or the realtor, right, whatever it might be.
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So we have to think in a different way, a little outside of the box on how do we really
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target these individuals that is based on their behavioral actions offline and online versus
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just a catch all where we're just sending a message out that may not resonate with those
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exact, exact people.
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So the consumer direct kind of thing, it's really based more on how do you tailor the
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message that has value and a strong offer to them and come more from an educational mindset.
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And when you get people information that's based on education, you're going to position
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yourself as the authority and expert, but you're also going to teach and enlighten them
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and hopefully in that same conversation, be able to then give them what are the opportunities.
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And I started that when I was early on in my career, I got into real estate.
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I was a real estate agent when I was 19 years old and then became a qualifying broker
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and I grew a team of my own company, I've managed over a hundred agents.
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But to get there, my first three years were extremely painful.
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I mean, it was not easy.
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I was 19.
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I was in a suit.
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No one was going to trust me, right?
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I'm going to trust this kid who hasn't even started shaving it with my largest asset.
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And it's not necessarily the best approach for me just to doorknoc and say, hey, I think
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about selling your home.
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And I did.
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I doorknoc over 2,000 homes my first 24 months in real estate, not a single one of them
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ended up in a direct sale.
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But I learned everyone's objections, I've learned how to actually clear the objections,
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and I learned what people really wanted to know.
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So I learned also, who do I resonate with, and what is my target prospect.
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And I was young, I was hanging out around the university, and I started to notice that
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parents would tour the university with their kids, right, the students, and they would
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either rent or buy a home, right, those of those two options or live on campus.
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Well, there was about 29,000 students that were enrolled in my vocal university.
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And I figured out, well, after talking to a loan officer, who was always doorknocking
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on some of these the last 500 homes with me until he was kind of like, dude, there's
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got to be a better way.
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Yeah, please.
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Yeah.
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So he told me about a kiddy condo loan program, and I don't think it's around anymore,
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right?
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But in the early 2000s, it was called a kiddy condo loan where the FHA loan, the parent
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would coosign for their kid, right, utilize the leverage of the parent's credit.
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It was very little down, I think, almost 3% or something like that.
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And it would get them into a home really, really easily.
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All of the properties around the university appreciated about, we're at 4% to 5% a year
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because of the location.
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And I then created a guide based on that that was a website, a guide that basically went
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over it was how to make those four years very profitable, wasn't that fun.
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And I handed out these different pamphlets and then ran ads in the vocal university newspaper
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and ran some basic Google paper click ads over to that website.
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And well, the website was just educational material, it was basically, here's the loan
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program.
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Here's what the home is pretty around the university area.
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If you buy, imagine the equity that you'll have over the next four years, and then you
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can rent the home and or sell it, take the equity, pay off the student loans, but your
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kid's basically going to have this great investment or you're going to have this great investment,
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right?
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So I started doing that and started getting people.
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My first client was a girl that was headed to NASA.
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She was a very bright engineering student, and her parents co-assigned for it, got the
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property, and then I started getting more, and her friends heard about it, and then kind
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of just snowballed.
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I should be giving these people that were then interested in buying more condos.
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Well, the developer that had all these condos that I can bring these people to said, you
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know what, why don't you become our listing agent?
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Here's basically $5 million worth of condos for this building, if you can sell it out,
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we'll pay you more, if you can sell it for the first five months I did, and that led
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me to win another one, and then another one, and we just kept being able to use the same
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type of educational material to draw people in.
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Well, Facebook wasn't around at that time, you know, in 2006, when Facebook had platform
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really came out.
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I modeled all of my marketing off of that ever since then, which was based on an educational
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type of advertising.
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So, with the same type of ad format, the persuasion and psychology of being able to draw people
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in with enlightenment by saying, did you know about this VA loan, or do you know that you
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can buy a home with only zero down, right, whatever it might be?
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All those types of opportunities, right, there's hundreds of different types of loan programs.
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Each one can be packaged into its own ad, but it's really based on more of the educational
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process, right, giving reciprocity.
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If you think back to the stone ages, people in caves, you know, being able to tell a story,
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what were the key pillars, the psychological pillars that really pushed people through
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persuasion to get them to take some sort of action.
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And it's a process of, well, storytelling, and so that can be done through education.
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Social proof, which is, you know, if you have any type of testimonials, if you have any
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type of, and today's, you know, social-specific proof is the combination of things.
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It's that Facebook ad was shared 25 times and has, you know, 15 comments on it and over
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250 people like it, that's its own type of social proof in a way.
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So there's different ways to really be able to take all of these core pillars, you know,
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untapped opportunities that people haven't heard about.
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And reciprocity is a really big one, reciprocity of giving them valuable information, where
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they feel like, well, you know, that person gave me this.
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So I should have been worked with them because they are the source, right, and it gave
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me a lot of this information as a gift, and then what can I do in return?
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So that's the methodology that we use most of our marketing and most Facebook advertisers,
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no matter what industry it is, there's always going to be various different types of methods
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and strategies, but one that works really well across all industries is education and
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reciprocity.
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Yeah, that's a nice setup and kind of a contextual, you know, background to education marketing
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and so I'm curious, then what you're seeing if there's certain types of educational offers
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that work well on Facebook, and so obviously a couple could be like, you know, e-books,
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right, the ultimate guide to buying a home or videos or whatever, but it sounds like what
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you're saying is on Facebook, don't look for the direct, quick hit, look for educating
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nurturing, perhaps putting people into a funnel, right, taking them off Facebook and taking
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them to your page, is that right?
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Yeah, there's a few different ways to do it.
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You can do, focus on audience building.
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So let's say you run a video that goes over the top seven mistakes homeowners make when
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trying to refinance their home, and that goes into like fear, guilt, greed, you know,
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fear missing out, all of those are deep emotional polls, that could be a video that you run
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to a group of homeowners, and, you know, anyone that washes, but say a 25 or 50% of that
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video, you can build a custom audience out of that, and you're not selling that video,
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right?
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You're just giving them information, right, the top, you know, deadly profit killing mistakes
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homeowners make when, you know, going through this process, whatever it might be, do
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it wash 50% of that, then show them a secondary ad that maybe a lead generation ad that is focused
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on some more content that is really showing them basically how, right, how to overcome those,
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and whatever kind of solution you can provide.
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So building an audience and then retargeting them with a very specific ad to give them
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to take a secondary action, you're going to see a lower cost per lead, you're going to
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see a basic lead that's been warmed up, and that's a warmer audience, they're educated,
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and so you're building this frequency illusion, where you're a little bit showing them everywhere,
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but it's based on their behavioural actions that they've taken at the top of the funnel.
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Now that's one.
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Some of the others are focused more on, you know, see if you qualify, right, for this two
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or three, you know, K-Lone, whatever it might be, right, this rehab bone that's come up
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for BA's, you know, see if you qualify, take, you know, take the quiz, or, you know, take
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the brief survey, whatever it might be, it fell out.
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So getting them to take those actions and then send them through, and then you have an
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email, let's say, or some sort of lead capture at the very bottom of that questionnaire,
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they say, you know, enter your email to get the results, right, and that's where you
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start to kind of, you know, basically convert them into a leave.
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Now there's more simplex ways of doing it, which is, you know, having a list of homes
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would always be a benefit if you're working with a realtor, if you can kind of piggyback
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on some of their IDX systems in that way you guys are working in tandem in terms of the
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follow-up process, and you could use their list of homes, their IDX website, and run an
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ad that might say, see all the properties that qualify for first-time home buyers and
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special financing programs, some of these homes you can qualify for zero-down finance.
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Interesting. So obviously, then you're targeting the first-time home buyer niche.
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Exactly, right, then you're, and really that's what most of the successful campaigns
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boil down to is you're targeting a very specific niche, right, so if we're doing VA loans and
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that's really focused on, you know, veterans and for focused on first-time home buyer homes
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that qualify for almost zero-down, or it might be you, or special grants, then right, you're
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speaking directly to first-time home buyers. And there's lots of data that we use to boil
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down who that targeted audience is, but you're going to see that's going to resonate a lot more
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that a broad audience with a very broad message. Yeah, yeah, good stuff there. So a couple of
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questions then on that in terms of focusing on a niche audience like you and I talked about
23:53
before we hit record is of course Facebook is changing some of the targeting interests
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to try and appear more, you know, public friendly. I'm curious, any comments you would have about
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the impact of that specific to real estate? I'm sure you know what the RF top of your head,
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I forget, right, does it income targeting? Is it thinking about buying a house? What are some of
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the others? Certainly, it's some of the major ones. So they're removing 1500 different interests.
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Wow. So partner categories is being removed, which is third-party data from axiom,
24:25
experience, data logic, some of those larger companies that aggregate tons of data offline
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from, you know, pretty much everywhere. Facebook has its own first-party data, which is very
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precious and probably was valuable data at any time, type of advertising platform. But the
24:44
party data sometimes was kind of hit or miss and sometimes it was used really well and sometimes
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it wasn't. But the key will affect real estate that they're removing are homeowners,
24:59
renters, income, likely to move, and there's recent mortgage borrowers and recent home borrowers
25:09
or home buyers. And there's a few that kind of cascade off of that. Now with that being removed,
25:16
it presents, I think, a really large opportunity. And you can see that there's a lot of
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mortgage borrowers and real estate agents that are, well, I'm just using some of those,
25:35
right? The targeting strategy was pretty simple. Sure. Well, it was easy, you know. It was easy.
25:40
Yeah, right. You know, yeah, they were targeting strategy. It was really still
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hit those few things. Now, the issue that we're going to experience is that that's being removed
25:55
on October 6th. So in October, all of those are being removed. Everything's hard cost to click.
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The results are definitely altered because they're removing them systematically right from Europe
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and Canada and the US. Now, what we've been doing is just that people use first-party data.
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And I'll give that just a little bit. But the opportunity here is that most people
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are going to be frustrated that they can't use some of those targeting, right? And you're going
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to have people that are going to complain and they're going to give up and their campaigns are
26:30
going to struggle. Now, your opportunity is that if you really know how to do Facebook marketing
26:37
well and you know different targeting strategies, you're going to be able to really dominate that
26:42
space because you're going to have some people that are going to leave the advertising platform
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all together and throw up their hands because they say you've got way too complicated for me.
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I don't want to even try and want to think about how, right? I'm just going to find it a
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different avenue. Now, what we do is since March, since this was announced in March,
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and this is one of our gold standards, one of what Facebook considers a gold standard as well,
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is you take your past client list of homeowners or if you have a list of homeowners,
27:12
whatever it might be, whatever your customer list that has a common denominator like homeowners
27:19
or people that are just buyers, whatever it might be, you upload that list as a custom audience,
27:24
you take that custom audience inside of your ad manager and you create what's called a look-alike
27:30
audience. Now, a look-alike audience, so you're just uploading your customer list in the CSV
27:35
file and you have some email, phone number, city, right, states, zip code, the more data you have
27:40
on them, the better. Facebook is going to match that and say we've got a 70% match of all
27:48
of people on your list to profiles and user IDs on Facebook. Now, with that custom audience,
27:55
create a look-alike audience and so what Facebook will do is they'll find all the people
28:00
in the entire United States that match, you're going to analyze and match the data of that list,
28:06
you're going to find 2,000 different data points, 2,000 different key attributes about these people,
28:12
life stage, income, homeowners, right, whatever it might be, the shop of Whole Foods,
28:17
all of those key denominators, they're going to find other people that match those very similar
28:22
profiles and then that is your list that you should run campaigns to. Now, that's one strategy
28:29
out of about seven that we've deployed that have been really successful for us, not using any
28:34
third-party data and look-alike audiences are really successful. We first started with e-commerce
28:40
because let's say if you on the e-commerce store, you had a necklace for $300 that you were selling,
28:46
you sold 1,000 of them in the past year. Well, what's the best way for you to find other people that
28:51
are most likely going to buy that same necklace in that price range where you take your past list
28:56
of people that bought, upload it, quit a look-alike audience and run ads to those individuals because
29:01
Facebook is going to have that data. They have that data that they can predict who are the people
29:05
that are most likely to purchase, who are the people that are most likely to travel,
29:09
who are the people that are most likely to move and buy a house or be finance, whatever life
29:14
stage they're entering into. It's a very powerful, so that's one key strategy out of Whole Foods.
29:20
Okay, and regarding the look-alike audience, once you've got that data on Facebook,
29:23
it's going to do a nationwide search and aggregation of that. Are you then, if a loan officer is
29:30
only in a local area or a real estate agent, are you then adjusting that for targeting purposes or
29:36
how do you narrow that to where you can actually serve? Exactly. We do what you call a geolocation
29:44
and narrowing. You upload that custom audience inside of your ad campaign at the ad-set level
29:54
when you're creating a campaign. Then you simply just type in the zip codes that you want to target
30:00
or the exact city that you want to target or if you have a neighborhood, you just type in
30:05
the actual property address and do 5 mile radius or 25 mile radius around that property address.
30:12
And then, Facebook's just simply going to take that look-alike audience and narrow it down and
30:18
specifically just a geolocation area that you are wanting to target.
30:23
Okay, wow, that's good, man. Thank you for the free education and how to navigate the new world
30:28
of Facebook there. Another question on that, though, is what do you suggest to people in terms of
30:35
giving Facebook a long enough time for its algorithm to perform its duties? Because a lot of people
30:41
are like, hey, I ran it for a day. I always love that one. I get people to say,
30:49
so I have an open house this Saturday, right, Thursday, my man, come on, it's not going to, yeah.
30:59
Your standard rule of thumb is you want to give the Facebook algorithm three days,
31:05
or 72 hours to have that start to really optimize and go through the Facebook algorithm to find
31:15
one, the blowing through that it can basically trigger the algorithm to say,
31:21
find individuals that are going to take a specific action. But it really goes through what's
31:26
called a learning phase. So the first three days, it's really going through a learning phase trying
31:30
to find the best prospects in the audience that you've created to understand, okay,
31:37
what have you trained us to do? How do you want us to perform? And those first three days,
31:43
you're going to lose money. And that's, you know, it's not really kind of in the people
31:47
that you're going to have. So, yeah, be prepared. I mean, really, you sit on your hands,
31:51
or your handkerchief, or a straight jacket, whatever, three days. Don't touch the ad campaign,
31:57
don't touch the ad copy, the targeting. You can make any changes for those first three days.
32:03
It's a start and stop, right? It starts over the algorithm and it becomes a Frankenstein type of
32:08
campaign. And it loses its data, loses its steam, and it's just not going to perform. Now,
32:16
we look at the algorithm, and most campaigns really the algorithm stabilizes on these campaigns at
32:24
8,000 impressions. So, 8,000 impressions on that ad set, on that campaign. That's where it
32:31
stabilizes. And then you can scale it or start to make any changes based on the data, right?
32:36
That you want to look for. You'll look for key point indicators of the data if it's going
32:41
upward, down. That's a big part of the Facebook campaign, right, is being able to read the data
32:46
and understand what to do next to you. Leave it alone. Do you change the ad creative? Do you
32:53
switch it to a manual bid, right? And get more. But yeah, the first three days, let it be, it's not
33:00
going to, you know, it's not going to kill you. You know, hopefully you're spending a healthy
33:05
amount of budget. You know, and budgetistic, well, the budget is a big part of it, too.
33:11
Yeah. You know, I think a lot of people may be under bidding. And so they might see in the first
33:18
five to seven days, no performance, or no real kind of action. And then you've got to go back
33:25
and really look at, well, why is that? You know, we have an audience of 700,000 people, but we're
33:30
bidding $5 a day. Well, you're not going to make a tenth in that audience with only 700,000
33:38
people in $5 a day. Facebook is a blind auction, right? It's an auction in bidding platform.
33:45
So when you go into that auction, right, when you say I'm going to spend X amount of day,
33:50
you're going into this auction and you're competing with maybe 50 or 250 other advertisers,
33:56
going after the same audience and so on overlap of it. And the situation that takes place there
34:03
then is Facebook is looking for who is bidding the highest that says we value this audience the
34:10
most. And this is what we're going to bid to reach those individuals. And then from there,
34:16
the Facebook algorithm says, all right, we'll feed that ad campaign out. But the user base has to
34:22
also speak and tell us, is this the right ad that we should continue to serve to most of the
34:28
individuals. So what they're looking for is the best consumer experience. And they have their own
34:35
total value. We give each ad campaign, each ad a certain weighted value in the equation basically
34:41
goes like this. It's called it's called bear. And that's what the Facebook algorithm is known as.
34:45
They're a big, mean, grizzly bear. So bidding expected action and relevancy. So what are you
34:52
bidding right to reach that audience? Then the expected action expected action kind of ties into
34:59
what is the optimization or the objective of the campaign. If it's a Facebook lead ad,
35:04
right, it features lead generation. Then what we're doing is the algorithm is saying, let's find
35:09
people that are going to become leads and fill this form. So we're going to fund the most likely
35:14
prospects. They're going to actually click on this ad, fill it out, or give their information,
35:19
and then go over to the destination URL wherever you want to send them. If it's traffic,
35:25
right, same kind of thing. Who's mostly going to click on this ad and then wait for a landing
35:31
page or a website to load or face the messenger, right, all those kinds of things. That's called OCPM
35:36
optimized cost per thousand mile impressions for some CPM. OCPM really taps into the algorithm.
35:42
So if you get some brand awareness or reach, that's just CPM, cost per thousand impressions.
35:48
It's basically just like billboards. It's not anything with a direct kind of
35:54
called action that's going to tap into the algorithm. But what you're looking for is
36:00
that's something you just can't control. The expected action is basically left up to Facebook
36:05
and their data of prospects. The relevancy part is how relevant is the ad image,
36:11
and the ad copy to that audience. And what Facebook is looking for is the optimal consumer experience
36:17
for this. That ad is relevant to me, and I'm going to engage with it. Now how Facebook determines
36:24
that is through a high click theory, and people are sharing and commenting on it and liking it. So
36:32
shares, comments and likes in that order is what's prioritized within the Facebook algorithm.
36:39
People clicking on the ad and actually going through and taking the actual steps,
36:44
that the ad is optimized for, that is feeding back into the algorithm, called pixel fires.
36:50
One of those pixels is sending the information back and saying, we've had 25 people take a
36:56
specific action in the past seven days on this exact ad. So therefore, the user base is spoken,
37:02
they enjoy it, and we're going to serve it up to more people based on the ad spent.
37:09
Now, if people go up and they click on the right hand corner of that ad and say,
37:13
hide this ad from me, which, you know, all of us do at some point, we've seen that too many times,
37:19
or there's an ad that has a picture of baby boomers drinking cocktails in Florida,
37:24
but it's being run to some millennials, right? You know, some 23 year old that says,
37:28
I don't want to see that stuff for me, but I hide that ad. That create what's called a negative
37:33
feedback score. That negative feedback score goes into tells your ad account, hey, people don't like
37:40
this, right? We got a negative feedback. You have a negative feedback score in the positive feedback
37:45
score. Positive is based on the click-through rate and interactions of people going through it.
37:49
Negative feedback is people, there's one simple action, people hiding the ad. So what does that do?
37:56
Negative feedback score limits your reach. So your relevant score, which is how relevant your ad is
38:02
from a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being it's hyper relevant, it's really great. One being it's not,
38:08
the higher the relevant score, the lower cost per click, the lower cost per lead. It is a direct
38:13
correlation there. So that goes down, the reach goes down, the impressions go down, your cost per
38:19
week goes up, your click-through rates start to take a dive and the campaign has the slow kind of
38:24
tragic death. So simple kind of formula, just make sure that your targeting is on point,
38:32
your ad copy and ad creative is speaking directly to the targeted audience, and you're bidding
38:37
effectively in the audience. So an effective bid, standard rule of thumb is $10 a day per 100,000
38:44
people in the audience. That's what Facebook really kind of looks for. So I'll bid sometimes a
38:51
little higher in the ad auction depending on the data that are received on past campaigns. So
38:58
I might say, you know what, there's 300,000 people in this audience. So I'm going to bid a little
39:03
bit higher. I'm going to bid $50 or $60 a day at first to really blow everybody out of the water,
39:09
and let some leads come in and then I might start the dial it down back to something more appropriate
39:16
like $25 a day and then just kind of a balance out. Everyone's bidding strategies a little bit
39:24
different, but just kind of start off a standard rule of thumb is $10 a day per 100,000 people.
39:29
Yeah, that's good, man. Very, very good. Holy crap. I'm taking the ton of notes and there's
39:34
so many directions we could go, but one of the questions that popped up for me because I had talked
39:38
to a loan officer who was looking at writing some Facebook ads with another firm out there,
39:43
and basically, I don't know if you can answer this question or not, but I'll try it. Basically,
39:49
it was coming back to him that his, if he was doing the math on the acquisition per, let's say,
39:55
closed the loan, right, that that was going to cost him, I think, $500 or more for each one of those.
40:03
And so I'm trying to figure out how do you decide, right, how much is the appropriator enough
40:09
per transaction, and I know it varies based on the size, but we're talking real estate mortgage,
40:13
so any thoughts there? Yeah, it really depends. I think for the mortgage industry, the CPA,
40:20
the cost per acquisition, is to sub $500, right, is a deal. So $200 would be the target range,
40:33
I think, for most, from our experience that we've seen. Sometimes you're going to get a home run
40:39
and get one that might be on the $25 or $50 cost per acquisition, right, not cost per
40:46
fee, but cost per acquisition. In fact, during that, for those that are listening, it's really kind
40:52
of going, what am I paying in ad spend, and then what am I paying for Facebook ad management,
40:58
right, if you're hiring a management team, right, a team of experts that do this for you,
41:02
but if you go on a team of experts that you're paying to do it for you, then it's just that
41:06
this is your ad spend and then whatever other dedicated resources, right, to try and convert that
41:12
prospect. But with that, yeah, we've seen that with mortgage leads, you're typically hovering
41:17
in between, you know, that $150 to $450 range, cost per acquisition. Just to clarify, by acquisition,
41:27
do we mean a closed loan? Yeah, closed on that. Some of that actually converted,
41:33
and the money is in the bank now, right. So, yeah, you're going to see on average those
41:42
flux rate in between. Is it higher for real estate because they're making more on a sale of a house,
41:48
right, they're going to make more than a loan officer's going to, so I'm wondering if the CPA is.
41:51
Yeah, you're right. There's going to be a, I mean, it didn't get everyone's, you know,
41:59
charging and internal fees and, you know, everything like that. But really, it's more of
42:07
has to do with one yet, the profit margin. It's not like what Facebook is really kind of saying,
42:15
oh, these people make more money on it, so they need to know that. I'm just thinking, right,
42:19
when you think about, I'm sure you get this all the time from the real estate. Well, how much
42:22
is it going to cost me per, you know, sale, right? I mean, that's what they want. Right.
42:27
And it definitely ranges across the board. So, with real estate agents, you know, we're seeing,
42:34
you know, average cost per lead, sometimes it's $2. Sometimes it's, you know, $17, right? It depends
42:42
on what kind of, what kind of proofs we're going after. So sellers are notoriously more expensive.
42:49
So, selling leads for us are much higher as a cost per lead because, well, they're a homeowner,
42:57
and homeowners are attached to so many different types of services, so them being targeted
43:03
by other employees. Exactly. Insurance companies. I mean, all these different types of,
43:09
because when you buy a home, we really, it gives thousands of people opportunities.
43:15
On the list, man. Yeah. So, if you're a homeowner, then you're a value as a prospect,
43:23
who's going to dreamy high to hundreds of different companies versus if you're a renter,
43:29
or if you're, you know, a homeowner, but you're targeted maybe in a different way,
43:33
which gets to be a little more advanced, sophisticated, but it's all about then the,
43:39
well, what is the intent? And we have to go back then to what is the offer? Now, a cost per
43:50
lead for a buyer to see a list of homes is going to be the rent for $4 or $6. At the most
43:56
lower cost per lead than homeowner, because we have leverage. Home buyers want to see homes,
44:03
right? And what's available under a certain price range? Homeowners, it's still sometimes a bit
44:08
of a mystery to exactly what they specifically want at that point in time with their live stage.
44:15
They're a bit more elusive. They're like that leopard snowcat, the USC once a year up on
44:20
the mountain range. You got to know exactly where to be at the right moment with the right tools
44:24
to actually, like, you know, see it from five miles away. So those type of campaigns are,
44:31
are effective, but they can cost more if the targeting and then the ad copy and what we call
44:38
a hook, right? What is the incentive? If the incentive is irresistible enough, then your click
44:47
through rate is going to be low. And then the car, then let's say you're spending $10 a day,
44:53
and you're only getting maybe one lead, you know, every three or five days. Well, then that's
44:59
going to be, you know, a $40 to $60 a lead. And then the time to convert that prospect into an
45:05
actual sale, you know, then it could be easily a three or $400 cost for acquisition. So it's
45:14
also about, what is the intent? What is the actual hook? And it needs to be something that is
45:22
well focused on on value and a benefit to them. Yeah. So it's intent to took its value,
45:29
its benefit. And then of course, the relevancy that we talked about before where you have to have
45:35
that offer that's relevant and the ad copy has to be relevant, the image has to be relevant,
45:39
all that kind of stuff. So there's a lot of moving parts there. Yes. Couple more quick questions
45:44
that just kind of popped in my head as we're talking here. Do you have any suggestions best practice
45:49
on keeping people on Facebook versus sending them off, right, off to like a landing page or whatever?
45:55
So, you know, Facebook does have some slight penalties inside the ad platform. Not penalties that
46:04
are going to, you know, get your shut down or negatively affect you, but penalties to where
46:10
your ad may not be shown to the right prospects for your reach, you know, is limited. So it might
46:16
be not shown to the same amount of people that you would desire it to be shown to if you're taking
46:21
people offline to a website. Now, there's about 27 different factors, a plan to that, but just
46:27
the key main ones are, is the website globally optimized? Is it designed for mobile? Because about 90
46:33
percent of our campaigns, our leads, everything is mobile. That's where they're all generated. So
46:42
if you're taking someone to a website that's not designed for mobile, then it's going to be
46:48
bad user experience and then Facebook does not want to affect user experience in a negative way,
46:54
right, on their platform. You want to keep people there as long as possible. So that's one part of it.
47:01
Does the website have a privacy policy on it? If it doesn't have a privacy policy on it,
47:06
then Facebook is going to penalize that and that's going to affect your campaign.
47:09
It's real quick. So Facebook's going to look at this with their intelligence that they have.
47:14
They're going to know what that destination page is and okay, cool. Yeah, basically,
47:18
they're going to read through almost like Google speakers. Look for certain words to try and find
47:25
your privacy policy. So if you don't have that installed, affect it, does the page take longer than
47:33
three seconds to load? That's also going to affect the campaign, right? So Facebook is building
47:39
more and more tools inside of the ad platform to where you sometimes you almost don't even need
47:45
some people off until the very last moment. So, and that experience can be done with Facebook
47:52
Canvas ads, which are basically many mobile websites and you can design those in the ad platform.
47:58
Canvas ads are really a cool type of tool because it takes up the entire screen. It's mobile
48:05
immersive. It pays a pickstakes of the entire phone. So you don't see any ads or anyone else,
48:12
but your brand or whatever it might be. Every time spent on those is to pick about 35 to 40 seconds.
48:19
That's how the Canvas ad. Can you put a video on those? Yeah, definitely. I put a video. I would
48:25
put any kind of material there. Whatever the goal might be, right? If it's to build an audience,
48:31
have a video so you can really suck them in. If it's to solicit some sort of offer, you're going
48:39
to be clear and concise exactly what that is in the video. But what was cool about Canvas ads is
48:45
that people that open them up, you can build a custom audience and retarget anybody that
48:50
interacted with that Canvas ad. Websites at the landing pages still work really well.
48:57
There's never going the way. Or just the experience that you want to make sure that the continuity
49:04
from your ad to the website is very, very close and neat and similar. Yeah, branding, imaging,
49:12
coloring, all that kind of stuff. It's got to be consistent. Continuity, like you said.
49:17
Very cool, man. This has been a lot of good stuff. I'm just watching the time here.
49:21
I want to close it out with just a couple of thoughts and then for those that might be
49:25
interested in connecting more with you and learning from you. But to lead to that question to that
49:31
next step, it's funny when I hear all this and I'm looking at the damn two pages of notes that I
49:35
have and everything and I'm like, man, this is some complex stuff and you're going to know what
49:38
you're doing. I'm curious what your thought would be on. We got the loan officers listening
49:44
who may want to try and go at this at their own and running an ad. Here's the offer,
49:52
whatever it is, that free relevant thing. The first question comes in my mind. Number one is,
49:56
do you think that's doable? Should people kind of test the waters out? What do you think?
50:02
Yes. I think that in today's world of technology and innovation, people wanted two camps.
50:13
Those that want someone to do it for them because they're too busy and they want
50:18
to have the budget. And then those that like to learn and they're more tactile with their
50:25
experience and they want to be able to listen to learn to fish and do it on their own again and
50:30
again. So I fall into the camp of wanting to learn because I, especially are you figured this
50:37
all out on your own? Well, yes, I think that people should, I would encourage them to
50:46
definitely experiment and try. I think also, especially for things, one will have a deeper respect
50:54
from the platform and understand the complexities and how it adds to truly is the scale of what is
51:04
available and what you can do. But also, it's one of those where, if you know how to do it,
51:11
and you're in there and be able to actually create a campaign and have success with it,
51:17
there's some great empowerment behind that. There's this real skill set that is valuable,
51:24
that if you can know how to do it and do it yourself, go for it, man. I mean, really,
51:30
really be able to do it. If you don't want to and you say, you know what, I'm running a bigger team
51:35
and an organization that, like, it's not worth my time to learn it, then you're much better off
51:41
than hiring the experts that do know how versus stumbling around and trying to figure it out and,
51:46
you know, the cost could be a little bit heavier. Awesome. I think there's great advice, great
51:54
suggestion. Thank you for that. I guess last question is this is what maybe, you know, one to
51:59
three questions that those listening, if they're considering an agency and outsourcing this,
52:05
that they should ask to make sure the agency actually knows what they're doing, you know.
52:09
That's, yeah, that's a great question. Well, you know, even when you call in or if anyone's ever
52:16
talked to the actual Facebook marketing team that Facebook has, I love Facebook. I've been to
52:24
the headquarters, you know, I've met with their core real estate team and actually I'm on their
52:30
advisory board, but there's marketers that they have, you know, to call in and they say, you know,
52:36
talk to an advanced expert marketer and so those people don't even really necessarily know
52:42
the full debts. So don't fault some of the agency people that you talk to if they can't answer
52:49
these questions, but I would really focus on, you know, what is your methodology? Because, you know,
52:57
there's Facebook has no methodology of priming a reminding, which is basically what we've adopted.
53:01
What was that again, say it again? Priming in reminding. Okay. So priming is basically having a
53:08
top of funnel, top of advertisement, right, whatever it might be, instead of retargeting people
53:14
based on their activity on that, right? So, you know, everyone has a different way of how they
53:20
do it, but have them explain the algorithm in their best way. Can you explain how the algorithm
53:29
operates to me so I'm so I can understand it and what that looks like? Okay. And from there,
53:36
I would really kind of focus on their successes, you know, how many leads have you generated?
53:45
You know, not necessarily how many clients they have because everyone's starting out in different
53:48
ways, right? So, you know, all new. Right. So, you know, I would really ask them what's been
53:56
successful for them, you know, more to the campaigns that are producing the best results, things like
54:02
that. Right. And some, you know, some people are going to be, you know, kind of talking stuff like
54:05
that. Right. They're ad copy, but I would, I would really kind of ask more about the targeting.
54:10
And, you know, what do you find is the best method that that is working for you now? And then
54:16
how are you handling the removal of those, those audiences that are, or the targeting that's
54:23
being removed away? You'll get some interesting answers. And then you can you really kind of
54:28
start to see where are they in the scope of, you know, as far as being an advanced marketer,
54:34
or they begin or intermediate in what they, you know, what they like to really focus on in terms
54:40
of their methodology. So, it's right for you. That's good stuff, man. Great. Thank you very
54:46
much. This is a crash course. And believe me, I've interviewed a number of people on Facebook,
54:52
and I, this is the most notes I've ever taken. So,
54:57
whatever that, hopefully that really conveys a lot. Really, it was awesome. All right. So, that
55:00
leads me to great. For those that are listening, they're like, hey, you know what? I want to hire
55:06
Travis and his team. I want to learn more. How do I get educated? You know, any places you want to
55:12
send our listeners to connect with you? Certainly. Yeah. If you, if any of you are interested in learning
55:19
how to run Facebook ad campaigns, you know, from the very basics 101, all the way up to the
55:26
advanced, or if you just want a team to do it for you. But my, my website is TravisTom.com as
55:34
Travis. Last time I spelled Tom THOM. So, TravisTom.com and Go Under Services. And you can see pretty
55:43
much, well, everything that we offer there. There's also a blog on that website for some
55:49
free training. And we've got a lot of great material there. Free training that you guys,
55:55
I would suggest starting there, get your feet wet, start to understand how everything works,
55:59
try it on your own, you know, and just test, right? Get out there and see what's, what's possible.
56:06
Yeah. And then of course, follow you on Facebook and I'll put links to all this in the show notes
56:10
because you do put out some nice content on your Facebook page as well. But thank you. I appreciate
56:14
that. Yeah. You bet, man. So, no, I appreciate you. You're very busy. I know a lot going on. And
56:19
thank you for coming here today and sharing your time and expertise with us. Good job. Thank you
56:23
very much for having me. I really appreciate it. And I hope everyone gains some value of Golden
56:28
Nuggets out of today. Definitely did, man. So I'm sure you're going to be getting some inquiries.
56:31
So listeners, thank you for tuning in as always. We appreciate you. If you like today's episode,
56:36
leave us a little thumbs up, a little positive review on the, you know, wherever you're listening,
56:40
iTunes, Stitcher, wherever on the blog. Thanks again. And we'll see you on the next one. Bye for now.
57:06
Hey, guys, what's up? Real quick. You've heard about the mortgage marketing pro membership before.
57:16
And I just want to quickly remind you of that you're in a place in your business where you simply
57:20
need more purchased loans. You need to fill your pipeline with purchase business. Let's just face it,
57:25
agents are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase business for you. Well, good
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news. Our mortgage marketing pro membership helps loan officers like you close more loans without
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the hassle of chasing agents or cold calling. Done for you agent classes, expert training videos,
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a marketing automation platform that automates the entire process for you, everything you need to build
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your personal brand in your local market, attracting convert agents into referral partners. Plus done
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getting agents, butts and seeds, partnering with affiliates, real easy. But that's not all. You'll
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also get access to our weekly mastermind calls with top LOs authors, speakers and coaches to learn
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the best strategies to grow your business right now in today's market. And as an extra bonus for
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limited time for all new members, you'll get access to a database of 200 agents in your local market
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that have closed anywhere to from eight to 50 transactions in the last 12 months. And we'll provide
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that list uploaded into our platform for you so you can get off to a fast start in reaching
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actually productive agents. So what are you waiting for? You can check out more at mortgagemarketing.pro.
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See more of the success stories there. And if you feel compelled to do so,
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book a call. We'll have a chat. We'll see if it's a fit. Don't miss out on this opportunity to
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