Latest / The Complete Agent - The Podcast For Premium Real Estate Agents / 136. If We Started Our Estate Agencies Again Tomorrow, We'd Do THIS w/ Special Guest Simon Gates
Transcript
- Dave Warburton: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Complete Agent Podcast, where each week we get together to talk all things estate agency. My name is Dave Warburton. As ever, I'm joined by James Kendall and ever present on this podcast. We have been massively let down by Ian Story again this week. He's not here, he's not at some holiday. Michelle can't be with us, but we have a legend that needs no introduction, but I'll introduce him anyway. Mr. Simon Gates: Yeah. Dave Warburton: Simon Gates, how are you, pal? Simon Gates: Very well, thank you very much. And I tell you what, that was a very professional intro. Well done, David. Dave Warburton: Thank you much. Thank you. JK: It's about as professional as it gets though mate, it's all downhill from here. Dave Warburton: Thank absolutely, absolutely. now obviously JK, you always refer to my bad internet connection. I am at home. For some reason my internet connection is really bad at home. But just remember it keeps recording at my end. So when you point it out to everybody on the podcast, it's just you know, it's just it's just a nonsense. So shut up when my connection goes down. JK: Well, we've actually, don't know if you know about this, mate, but we've got a surprise for you. We actually started a GoFundMe, Get Dave Internet. So Dave Warburton: Get Dave broadband. JK: Elon Musk is actually standing outside the front of your house now to present you with a Starlink. Dave Warburton: get get Dave off dial up. JK: Yeah. Dave Warburton: so anyway, let's start with the usual tradition. How has your week been? Gatesy, let's go to you mate. How's your week been? Simon Gates: week has been very busy over the last well, seven days. I've been here, there and everywhere, Manchester, Peak District, London a couple of times. playing golf at the Belfry as well, Dave, that was nice. Weather was a bit shit, that was nice. Dave Warburton: Did I ever tell you about my bell? Simon Gates: I've also driven I've also driven the temp on the Brabazon. Is that what you're gonna say? Dave Warburton: Right. Y yes, but did you birdie it as well? I'm not sure you did. Have you have you got it on camera? I I mean did you record? for God's Simon Gates: Yeah. I d I've got Yeah, I do I do actually. Dave Warburton: sake. Right. Well we'll we'll post both videos and maybe become a vote on whose was the best. Simon Gates: Can I can I carry on now? Dave Warburton: Okay. Simon Gates: to unpack my week. and yeah, being very busy, key takeaways for me. I went to s to have some coaching in a small group setting with Damian Hughes from High Performance Podcast up in Manchester, which was incredible as always with him. James, I'm sorry, I've cheated on you. And I went to see Rory Sutherland in conversation with Kadira in London with Toby Martin. Which was JK: Mm. Simon Gates: incredible. It was very good. Sorry. maybe w want to unpack that a little bit. But yeah, that's that has been my week. JK: That's not. Simon Gates: It's been it's been it's been very busy, but lots of value had from learning, hearing from those incredible people. So yeah, we're good. Dave Warburton: Super. What about you, JK? JK: Yeah, okay. We didn't have a phenomenal September, being completely honest. But what we did get from September and we are going to reap the rewards from in October is price realignments. And the team are really on board. Matt, bless him, he's smashing it at the moment with price realignments. He's been helping me with market updates because I've been doing a lot of valuations myself recently. And as a result, I've relied on him in the office helping me. to update clients and he's been having some really good conversations. so one particular property we got down originally starting, I said last week, it started at a million quid, came down to 900 and then we got it to 850 and we've just tied it up at just over 850. And the buyers are there. You know, if you're not getting any inquiries, it's because your price is wrong. It's not because the buyers aren't there. Buyers are somewhat restricted at the moment by mortgage rates. Now I spoke to Paul, my business partner on the mortgage side this morning, and there's pretty much no sub 5 % mortgages anymore. Every mortgage rate is pretty much 5 % plus. And obviously that's having an affordability impact on people that are looking to buy. So, you know, if you think, if you look at the latest Rightmove house price index, that says, I think it was end of February, the average mortgage rate was 5.09%. It's now 5.29%. And then on the average person that's buying at sort of 300 ish, that affects them to the tune of around 120 pounds a month. Now, if you look at that as you go up the market, so, you know, if you're selling a premium end of the market where people are taking mortgages, that compound interest of what 120 pound is at 300 is going to be a lot more substantial as you move up the market. So buyers are driven by value as always. It's not the market of 2020 to 2021. And if you get the prices right, people will come. So, you we've got a couple that we've changed the price on. One, we took off another agent at 900, launched 850, had some interest on, but no real takers. But we've been keeping the clients up to date and doing the job that we promised we would do. Just change it to 800 as of yesterday. And overnight we've had three sold viewing requests ready to buy and view. So. Yeah, we're, again, we were still profitable in September because of the level of fee that we're charging. Even though we're only doing single digit numbers, we're still doing very healthy amounts of actual revenue. But obviously when you're used to doing 10 to 15 sales a month for 10k plus fees, it does make a bit of an impact, but you know, it is what it is. We are, we are where we are, but we are, we have a plan and we are moving forward. yeah. We're having a decent time to be fair, would say. It's one of those markets when I was saying to an agent in TCA one to one the other day about when we're talking about fees, this is probably the easiest market you're going to work in to get 2 % plus. In other markets, when you're in that 2020, 2021 market, when my nine-year-old son could stand out at front and sell properties, when anyone wants to view it as a queue of 15 people. very hard to get 2 % then there are ways that you can justify that, but we're not going to talk about that on this podcast. But equally in this market when it is hard and you have got to be an estate agent and you've actually got to sell and be proactive and manage your stock, it's much easier to show people that you're actually worth the premium for you. think that's the important part. You can demonstrate the value. yeah, that's my week. David. I'm going to move on from, I'm not going to acknowledge the fact that you cheated on me. well, I just have now, and went to Vorry Sutherland without me. So I'm going to, move on to you, David. David, how has your week been? Dave Warburton: Yeah, pretty solid week. We've had three sales, four offers. We've got four new instructions on. we've had quite with like August was sorry, August, September was great for completions as well. So we've had a little bit of money drop in the bank, which is always nice. pipeline's the healthiest it's been. and our on market fees are are fantastic. I mean you know, I think everybody a lot of people are always looking for the next new instruction. we were talking with the team yesterday about how ev everything, all the gold is right there. You know, we've got tons of money there just waiting to drop. All we have to do is sell it. And you just touched on something there, JK. you know, having those tough conversations with sellers. Just just let know what's happening. got a couple of really good price realignments in the last week as well. and also having some entertaining conversations. And I say entertaining because I think you've got to try and this job is hard sometimes. It's deflating. it's like you're banging banging your head against a brick wall. I mean, th I was laughing with a homeowner a couple of days ago because he chose to go on at a certain price six weeks ago. He's had one viewing that was proactively generated from us by sort of taking him from one property to another, basically. He's not had a single organic inquiry on right move. And we were laughing because basically at the valuation we'd sort of suggested eight to eight fifty, was where the data sat and obviously we talked about the market conditions. and we then did all of the photography, all of the videography. I got everything ready and I was actually on holiday at the time. He he rang me and said, Hi Dave, I've been having a chat. I know what you've said, we're gonna go on at nine fifty. Simon Gates: Hmm. Dave Warburton: What? And he said, Yeah, what it is, we've got one of our neighbours that likes the house, and we've sort of mentioned to them but it might be nine fifty. I Right, so you've inflated the price a hundred and fifty thousand because your neighbour has suggested that they like it. They said, Yes. And he said, if you put that on the offers over eight or eight fifty, then they won't pay nine fifty. I said, You can't you can't put all your eggs in one basket for your neighbour and then risk Anyway, he said it went away. had a chat with his wife, came back, goes on all day, and he just went, No, we're 950. But but we're gonna throw all the furniture in. Like, JK: okay. That makes sense. Dave Warburton: yeah. You mean the furniture that nobody will want because they're already bringing their own and the big the big family home, it'll actually be more of a hindrance. They'll need to hire a skip. anyway, he went with it. He's not had anything, he rang me yesterday, and he he was actually laughing. Well, yeah, we need to reduce it. we should have just done what you said. Right, yeah, great. But then the other the other ones that that just make me smile are where you know you'll you'll have all this conversation, you know, let's just say it's six hundred thousand on paper, and there's one down the road that's sold at six hundred or maybe a touch more, and you're sort of saying to them, right, so asking prices are coming down at the moment, there's fewer buyers in the market, the sales agreed this year are are below last year, how interest rates are going up, affordability is stretched. And actually, about three weeks ago, it was announced that the country's debt is the highest it's been since the last recession. There are no positive stats at this moment in time to suggest that house prices will go up anytime soon. If anything, they're likely to drop. But the good news is there are buyers out there. I can demonstrate these sales here. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. But there you go. So that's where we're at. What do you think? Yeah, we want to try at 650. So you'll you'll sort of say, like the market's. Everything's everything's dropping, but you want fifty grand more than the one that's just sold in a really good market. It's it it's baffling sometimes and you just have to smile and and and either move on. JK: away. Dave Warburton: Yeah, absolutely. So I I quite I quite like that though. You know, I've picked up a couple of really good listings in the last week that I didn't get first time around. JK: Mm. Dave Warburton: there was one in particular that was one point one million. it star it's gone it went on at one point five and it's now coming back to me and guess what there's no fee negotiation or anything like that because they they they see the value and they've got no room to go really nowhere to go with it. They either put it on with a a more mainstream agent and pay a lower lower fee and just get the same result at the same bloody asking price or they do it properly this time. And the other one, I'm you know where where the market is challenging right now There's opportunity. There's so much opportunity because there's a lot of low hanging fruit. There's so much stuff on the market. And if you're I mean, I've again I went to one the other day, it's 1.4 million. It's a it's a farmhouse with 30 acres of land. we talked about how we could refresh the marketing, maybe do it differently, split the land up and this, that and the other. He quite liked all that. And you know, when it came to the fee, it's just there's absolutely no negotiation whatsoever because they've been ill advised from day one. They've had very little interest and now they're in a position where it's like, please help me. so so you know, f for those that are not chasing on market stock and doing the basics, the door knocking, the all the the proper direct mail, you know, it's all there. It's all there for you. So there are a lot of positives in this market, even though it is more challenging. JK: I think that's the other thing you just said there as well, mate, before we move on to today's topic is the power of saying no as well and Dave Warburton: Mm. JK: being able to walk away. Not every instruction is there to be won and you don't want every instruction. What I can just think while you were talking there and actually talk to one of my clients about it this morning. I went to go and see it and the data was kind of like nine to nine to five. And they said, okay. It's a bit more than one other agent. And I was thinking, shit. But then also equally she said it was quite a bit under one of the other agents. was like, right. Okay. So other agents valued a million quid. And I said, well, look, you might get nearer to that, but you need to finish the house. Like the house at the moment looks a bit like the house that Jack built. Like there's a bit missing everywhere. And I think they took offense to it, be honest. I didn't get it, but I just said, look, if you want to get the top price for your house, it's got to be finished. At end of the day, you can't have. a plaster ceiling in one room. You can't have bathroom tiles missing in the other. Like you're talking a million pound house on, it's one of it's a good road where we are. but it's probably the worst part of a good road and like the frontage as well, the frontage like needs tidying up. It's just, there's so many like things I know a buyer is going to walk up to and go, okay. Like for example, the front door hasn't been painted. The rest of the house has been Like the kitchen and bathrooms are actually really quite nice. And the style in the house is really quite good, but they almost need probably to take six weeks and just finish it off before they put it to market. But anyway, other agents come in and go, yeah, yeah, million quid, let's just stick it on as it is now. But the other thing they said to me as well, which sort of rang alarm bells was that they said, well, well, you know, we'll try it for four weeks now. And then if not, we'll just take it off. And I just thought to myself like, I said, cause I obviously we charge upfront as well. And I was only going to charge a grand upfront for this house. And I just thought to myself that I'd be making a loss. I didn't sell it in four weeks and they just take it off. Like what's the, what is the point in that? Why would you, why would anyone in their right mind want that instruction? but this other agent does their own sort of, you know, sing the theme tune, write the theme tune, does their own photos and stuff. so it's just going to be their own time, but even so, like, what's it going to cost them to put it on in time and energy? so not every instruction is a good instruction, but so to talk about this week's topic. So we'd put together something quite interesting. Now, obviously Gates, you see a lot of people that are getting into a state agency, like maybe going self-employed or people going out on their own, starting their own business. in TCA, we speak to a lot of people that are, okay, and sometimes in a similar position, but generally they've already got established. sort of lower to mid end brands or lettings businesses that want to get into the premium agency market. And it got me thinking about a topic. What would you do if you had to start your estate agency again tomorrow? And a few questions that I kind of put together for us to kind of unpack and talk to, because, you know, I love to unpack things. If you were going to start, mean, Casey, to throw it to you, like if you were starting an estate agency tomorrow, Would you start a traditional estate agency? Would you choose employed, self-employed, partner agent, boutique, volume? What would you, what would be your thing? Now I appreciate obviously there's going to be people that listen to this that are in all different forms. So you probably got to be careful what you say, but what's your view? Simon Gates: Well I think that last bit you just hit the nail on the head for I've spoken to hundreds of different agents across the podcast and working with them over the past few years and there's more than one way to skin a cat. I've seen some high street JK: Are politician in disguise? Simon Gates: did do work experience in the Houses of Parliament. JK: You Simon Gates: they so you can get you can get to self-employed agents, franchises, corporates, high street independents, put them next to each other, and one will be Money, one will be making lots of money. So I think all the different business models do work. But I think, and you guys, I think a testament to this, you've got to decide what yours is and fully commit to it. So if you if you are going to be self-employed, be self-employed. If you're gonna go after the higher end, go after the higher end. If you're gonna be hyper-local, be hyper-local and get known for something specific. if I use myself as an example, what what do people tend to know me as the guy, you're the you're the guy who loves numbers, you're the data guy. I'd like to think there's a little bit more to me than data. thanks for not saying anything that just Dave Warburton: Yeah. Simon Gates: but that but that but that's what that's what people know me for. And that's and then maybe have a conversation with them. you're talking about sales, marketing mindset, psychology, that sort of stuff. So yeah, I think it's it's specifically getting known for something. I think what a conversation I'm having a lot with agents at the moment as well is that they're saying to me, I just want everything to be organic. Well, what do you mean by that? I just want people coming to me with houses to sell. And I think that they look at people like you guys and Ian and assume that that is just the case for you. And it's like, well, all the letters you send out, all the social media stuff you do, like they're not realizing that all that success from the outside looking in is the work you do in the dark and in private, right? You get rewarded for in public. They're just assuming that they can just whack a social media post on from Canva and then they're gonna be successful. There's JK: Yeah. Simon Gates: actually so many different moving parts to it. So so I've I've rambled on there a bit, but in terms of I think if I was actually to set up an estate agency myself tomorrow, let's say genuinely Simon Gates, for me locally, and I appreciate this will vary for everyone in country, I think there would be three three things to consider. One is Do I go hyper hyperloc, be with a brokerage, and I wouldn't even need my car? I would dominate the Poet's estate and I would be the Poetts Estate specialist. I can earn a pretty good living from doing that. Then I think from that it would expand out to the different estates across Newport. Or I could partner up with someone like James Kendall and say, James, you've got a fantastic brand, you've got a great setup, you've got Bedfordshire kind of covered. Do I go in with you and do Buckinghamshire? And be the high-end specialist in Buckinghamshire. Now, in e neither of those instances, am I going and getting a high street shop? My social media would be my digital shop, but I'd be spending loads of time in the in hanging around the places where my audience can be hanging around coffee shops, et cetera. But and then again, if it was a higher end, I'd be hanging around, you know, the golf clubs or the nice restaurants, hotels, etc. to get off the higher end. So yeah, I think it's I I don't think there's a right or wrong answer, but it's whatever you choose, you have to fully commit to it and go all in on it. JK: What about you Dave? Because you've obviously brand split. Dave Warburton: Yeah. JK: Like, what would you do? Dave Warburton: I have my moments in this industry where sometimes, you know, you you you know it's it I think with the majority of people who start doing this, by the way, you've got something in you, entrepreneurial and you know you you want to go and do your own thing and it's hard not to always want the next thing, you know. So as obviously as you know, JK, me and yourself and I are in business together with with some with TCA. our own agencies, we've got finance, we've got lettings, you know, there's there's always something else. And the context I'm giving is it would be very difficult for me to start and just be on my own as a say personal estate agent. and I think it very much depends on the person and what you what you genuinely want and cut out for because there's There's one thing that always makes me laugh is there's people I think some of the the self-employed models not I wouldn't say they I wouldn't say necessarily they promote it as such, but it the suggestion is that you are you can look you can do your own hours, work when you want, spend time on the golf course and do this, that and the other. It just isn't like that. You know, you know there's somebody I know well. Who's who's d gone down that route, done really well, and you know, we we have regular conversations where he sat up in his bed, late at night, writing descriptions, drawing floor plans, etc. etc. And it's never as straightforward as, you know, I'll just list a couple of houses and and make a living, and then take the rest of the year off and play golf three times a week. So Yeah Simon Gates: Sound sounds like me. Dave Warburton: Who works bloody hard, Gatesy. Simon Gates: No, s I just sor sorry to cut across you. I think that on your point that like th I think the jokey line around self employment is the great thing about being self employed is you get to choose which eighty hours you work each week. Dave Warburton: It's so true. so I'm I'm all I'm trying to give there is context about w what you've got to be very clear about what you want because as soon as you s open the doors and and make a start here, it's a it's it's a it's a proper shift, it's a grind. You know, you've got to really understand what you want from life, I think, because seventy eighty hour weeks are the norm. especially when you first start. And obviously, you know, we've spoken about it a l a lot and and I actually is a shining example of sort of managing himself out of the business a little bit at the moment. you've got to work yourself to that. But it takes a lot of time to get there. It can take a lot of time, a lot of ye many, many years. And I think the what you've just said there, Gatesy, about people wanting valuations to just come to them. That takes takes years. And it and even then it it's never a given. You've got to stay consistent with your marketing and things like that. And what you know, one of the things that me and JK and Ian hear a lot and speak speak to people a lot about is investment in the business. So, JK, how many times do we speak to potential suitors for our little network that we've got going on here at TCA? And JK: Yeah. Dave Warburton: they they're sort of like comfortable paying a membership fee. But then when you actually say to them, look, This is not just a membership fee. What you've got to do is invest in yourself. You've got to invest in your marketing. So if you're not prepared to spend money on actually making your direct mail work for you consistently well, probably over a one to two year period to really get a foothold in the market, JK: Mm. Dave Warburton: it's not the thing to do. You you need to go and invest. Simon Gates: It's the same as a a a gym membership, isn't it? Let's just say the TTA is a gym membership for a moment. And okay, I think too many people are assuming that okay, if I just pay the money, I'm gonna be successful. You can pay money to the gym, but you need to fucking turn up to the gym and lift some weights and sort your nutrition out. Otherwise it's just a waste of money. Dave Warburton: Yeah. How many times do people go on these JK: We've also got great examples, haven't we? There's great examples of people in TCA that have invested in themselves and, you know, have said, I'm not doing anything less than a five figure fee now. I just got 2%. I've got this, I'm selling this house now. they've, if you put the work in, then you'll get it. And that's why I think sometimes when, you know, I've had calls recently with, with agents that have been interested in joining and I've actually talked them out of it because it's not right Dave Warburton: Yeah. JK: for them. They haven't got the money to commit to it. then I don't want to take monthly money off someone for it not to happen. We want people to be successful and we need people to do what's right for them. They need to be able to commit to the investment long-term. So just, so gone. Dave Warburton: think j just just going back to going back to the question really I sort of went around the hoses a little bit there but Simon Gates: What was the question? JK: Yeah, are you both politicians? Dave Warburton: what I I think it you know if I was if I was starting out again obviously I as you know I started out with a low fix V brand and we we we went for volume and I didn't really niche to an area and stuff like that. Where I think that success comes from and again it depends on the model. I think you can make a really good model niching On the style of property that you sell, and the and the sort of value maybe. And the value that you add is that, like, for example, we are seen as we do sell unique prestige homes or aspirational homes that are of high value. And we do the same sort of marketing on everything we do. So if we're selling a really nice Victorian terraced property that might only be four hundred thousand pounds, We you will still see the Twilight Shot, you'll still see a full cinematic video, you'll still see a brochure, you'll still see the pre-launch strategy that we do on every single house as if it was a two and a half to three million pound house. So it's not really an entry level based on price, but when people come to me, generally speaking, they they have related to what we do. So I think you've got to I would 100% deliver consistency, decide what it is that's best for my client and the type of client I want to represent and deliver that. And if it's if it's mid to high end, I do think that you can spread your wings. It depends what sort of area you live in. But but where I am, you know, I live in live in Bolton, we have some nice areas, but it's not like we're awash with million-pound houses. so we I've had to spread my wings a little bit, stretch out a little bit further, and we cover four core areas. and We get a certain type of property usually in these four areas. And a very we get a good number of valuations every single month. We put enough instructions on, et cetera, et cetera. Now, I think if you're going for again, it depends on the type of area you live in. You might have a lot of mid to high value homes where you live. But I think that the second thing for me would be I would niche in an area and I would become known within my community, become consistent with the marketing again, get my face on camera. as often as I possibly can, do video, interview local business owners, but I would niche to a a local area. Jamie, who used to work for work for me, you know he's he's he's an exceptional estate agent and he's he's done brilliantly well since he's moved on. he has done exactly that. Where he lives, worked as a personal estate agent. I've watched him now move to open a little branch in his in his own town. And he's doing brilliantly well. And I think that is something that you can do. You know, even if you're at the if you prefer the lower end of the market, you know, and you want to just you know, lower average fees, there's nothing wrong with that. And you can handle higher volume, that's that's where I think you can do well. So niche to s I think if you're starting out, niche to a smaller area, like a build a local community, become well known in your local community by interviewing local businesses and things like that. But find Understand it who it is that you serve because what I can guarantee it's never everyone because you'll end up serving no one. JK: So let's move on to the next point. I'm not going to answer that because we're already half an hour in. The Dave Warburton: Answer it. JK: next thing is, so, well, two questions actually. What's the first thing you'd spend your money on? So, you know, brand, photography, CRM, direct mail, office, people, boards, or, you know, and also equally, what wouldn't you spend a penny on? Simon Gates: So I'll go first. The first thing I would spend money on is internet connection. JK: Yeah! Dave Warburton: Nobody knows, Gatesy, it's recording at my end. Goodness me Simon Gates: it it in terms of my investment, I would make sure that I'm investing heavily both online and offline. so as you guys know, and I'm a huge fan of direct mail. You obviously get a lot of success from direct mail. I think we're in such a saturated world online now, but it's actually never been easier to stand out with good direct mail. and from a quality point of view on the direct mail, as well, James, you you've said before about different type of envelope, quality of paper, stamp, hand writ handwritten envelopes that is gonna get you a high response rate and from the right types of clients. So yeah, I'd be big on direct mail, but and then also heavy on video as well. You guys do a lot of video. I'd be I'd be investing money on getting me a videographer. Dave, you mentioned about going and interviewing local independent businesses. I think that's a no-brainer. just making sure I'm doing loads of local stuff. I've been saying this for the past half a dozen years since I started at home search, but doing like Street of the Week kind of stuff. Michelle Gallagher gets loads of business from doing Street of Week. there's a guy called Oliver Smith, who's at TA UK in Andover. I think he gets most of his business from doing street of the week. and you can like write to the street and say, hello, I'm gonna be in your street next week at this time because you're my chosen street of the week. Let me know what you love about the area, what's interesting about it. I'd love to put it into my video. And you go and send letters out when you're there videoing it saying, Hello, I'm here doing the street of the week, scan the QR code, it'll be on my socials next week. So yeah, online, offline, you can kind of compliment them there and being omnipresent. That's where I'd be investing a lot of my money to start with on that stuff. Dave Warburton: Yeah, do you know what as well? I I actually saw a video the other day of a a local village next to me. and it it's it's sometimes strange when you see it on on a proper, well put together video, isn't it? It's you know, it's like a little t mini T V production of the local shops that you walk past every single day and the schools and where people hang out. The the engagement on this particular video that somebody had done, it was actually for Lancashire Life. It was huge. So many likes, you could see that the video had been viewed tens of thousands of times. And it was nothing special. It was it was just a a video reel showing some of the local hotspots in this particular village. And the caption was, can you guess where this village is? And you had obviously Simon Gates: Hm. Yeah. Dave Warburton: loads of locals talking about it. Now, if you put a face to that, so you are the face of that particular video talking about that local area, and you become well known for it, and well known in the local area by interviewing local businesses and stuff. It's it it's such a game changer. It really, really is. So I think I agree with Gates. Yeah, I think I would definitely invest in proper videography. I think again, you definitely you can get away with just doing Facebook lives and and turning your camera on for a start on your phone. They're good enough these days to to give you good quality, get a decent mic, and you get some brilliant reach just on the local Facebook groups. So I definitely use that to become very, very well known. But the other thing that I would 100% invest in without a doubt is direct mail. It's as transformed as JK: I think there's a trifecta for me. would go direct mail video, which obviously would lead into social as well. But interestingly, neither of you have said it for me. I would go brand as well. I would put some money into the brand and make sure the branding looks decent. Because having been a 999 plus VAT agent, looking at my original branding, it was absolutely dreadful. It doesn't mean I have to spend five grand on branding or 10 grand on branding. I mean, I've probably spent... 20 grand plus in the last 18, 24 months on my brand, on getting to where it is now. But even just a basic logo and branding, I think can make a big difference. Because if you're sending direct mail out and your logo looks like a bag of shit that was done on AI, then I don't think that your response rate is going to be as good as if it looks a bit slicker. Doesn't mean it needs to be the finished article, but... It needs to be good enough. And interestingly, what would you both not spend a penny on this time? where you've spent money before, what have you realized? And what have you seen, Gatesy? So Dave, I suppose for you, with hindsight, from X amount of years experience running businesses and Gatesy having experience of talking to so many different agents and hearing what works and what doesn't work. What would you not spend a penny on? Simon Gates: I Say just kind of reiterating some of the bits I said earlier, in terms of the world we live in now, is I think it can be an ego thing and a vanity metric to have a High Street office. I I would I would like to so let's say if I launch tomorrow and I don't know, I went down the classic route of I join one of the brokerages and then I moan about how. I'm no longer a high street office, you get a personal service from start to finish, you deal with me, and then lo and behold, you become really successful, you build a team, and then go, shit, I need somewhere to put them. And then I'm in a high street office. You're like, so you're back to exactly where you were and what you said you hated. But I think there's there's definitely importance in having an office and particularly on a on a high street, especially if I'm going out and interviewing local independent business owners, you know, shop local, support independent. I don't think that needs to be the first thing. 'cause like for my high street, I I don't I I reckon I go to my high street once, twice a month, genuinely. JK: Can I just say I've got some personal insights on the office and it's something I've talked a lot with the guys recently on is that I feel like I made a mistake doing what I'm doing now, moving into the office I moved in. And the way, the analogy I put together to a lot of people is obviously I want to play in the premium space. So 650 to kind of three and a half million. If you walked out at the front of your office and had 10 marbles in your hand and you threw them, What would be the combined value of home that you would hit from the 10 marbles? Now, my average price that I like to sell as of, as my CRM recently is about 700 K. So by rights, my office really should be hitting 7 million plus, right? Simon Gates: Yeah. JK: The reality is it hits around three. So there's a conversation to be had about if you're going to go for a high street office. You need to make sure it's in the right place. Cause I've made probably two or three errors on that by not planning and thinking about, then also equally then they weren't errors because the business was in a different phase at the time. So the first two offices I had were, you know, as you know, selling the sort of mid to lower end of the market to 10 plus years ago. But in more recent times as we've, as we've kind of moved up the scale, the office we have now doesn't really benefit from what it should do. So for example, I going mean anything to you, Dave, but I should really do what I do. I should be in somewhere like Woburn or Amptel where if I was to do the same exercise, I would probably hit anywhere between seven and 10 million from the same marbles. So if Simon Gates: Can I JK: you are going to invest in an office, then I think that that's an exercise you should do. Visualize yourself standing outside the front of the office, throw 10 marbles. Maybe you've got a good throw, maybe you haven't, but you visualize that throwing of the marbles, what's the average value of property you're going to hit? And if you are going to go for a high street office, is that going to resonate with the brand that you want to create? Simon Gates: That's one Dave Warburton: Yeah. Simon Gates: of your better analogies you've done, by the way. JK: Thank you. Simon Gates: A lot of them can be shit, but that was really good. JK: Thanks so much. Dave Warburton: Marbles, not sure about marbles. Simon Gates: so on the like go going back to my point of not having an office initially and then growing into one, I'd a hundred percent want to be doing exactly what you said there, with that marble analogy. But again, going back to the point I made earlier, if I wanted to deal in the higher end of the market around Milton Keynes, well yeah, go and hang around where those people hang around. I can't like I've lost count how many times I've just gone and played golf on my own over the summer, where there might be it might be a bit slow. And I say to a person behind me or in front of me, do you fancy just drawing up to make things a bit quicker? Hi, I'm Simon. hi Dave, how are you doing? What do you do for a living? where do you live to more often than not, they're like, Yeah, I'd probably move home because when they find out I work in the property industry, they start asking questions. the amount of business I could potentially do just by going and playing golf and killing two birds, doing something I enjoy, and then actually going out and meeting people. I think that point again where doing what I've done for the past few years, I could sit in my spare bedroom at home and, you know, put stuff on socials and record podcasts. But I've toured the whole of the UK going and seeing people to make contact with them. So again, yeah, that's what I'd be doing. If I didn't have an office, I would be in the coffee shops, I'd be working from the pubs, I'd have a branded gilet on or something so people recognise you, recognise a brand, and I think that'd be very funny. JK: Ian's story likes this. Simon Gates: Incredible. Dave Warburton: I I there's there's a few things I've picked up on there. So so brand is hugely important, JK. I was I sort of avoided that one just because I know we always talk about how you look and it goes down a a different the same path, don't it? Because we're so passionate about that, how you look and and how you resonate Brand is massively important. But if starting again, as much as I would want to have a great brand behind me, there's a couple of things. One, I would want to ensure that the brand is supported by my personal brand. So my honest opinion from day one, certainly no, that's something that's changed probably more so in the last 10 years when we first started, is I think the Personal brand when you are starting out and it's just you needs to be elevated almost above the brand. So it because you you you kind of you kind of blend in with other agents if you are just a name and you're posting the same shit that everybody posts, especially now with ChatGPT and all that sort of stuff. So the only thing that is not copiable is yourself. So I think that your personal brand should be. what you use as your biggest selling tool. Hence why I think you should get yourself out there. The other thing I wouldn't do is invest in absolutely every piece of tech, every single property portal. So you know, when I first started, I'd obviously come from a corporate background and I thought I need to recreate what I had there as quickly as possible. so that I've got the well I think the perception is that we're well established and we we're ready to go and we can we can handle your property. And I thought right, I need a I need an office, I need the most expensive printer to do all my scanning, I need to be on right move, Zupla and on the market. and it it it just wasn't necessary. It just wasn't necessary. The other thing as well I wouldn't do is scatter gun mail approach. So I I think a lot of people will print ten thousand leaflets. and have them delivered by royal mail or we'll get somebody to go and deliver themselves or they'll spend their own time pounding the streets. I promise you, it's it just doesn't work. I mean it it it has a level of success but the return on vestment in investment is is poor. the quality of the the mail that you're sending out is the key and how you niche that mail So the content of that and how you niche with it is the absolute key. So I I would absolutely change that. and the other thing that I would drop, I would never have enter entertain free valuation. We will do a free valuation and also instant valuation tools and things like that. I know they can they decent the data, but I I just think they've lost their appeal. JK: I think that their time has been gone for the online valuation tool. think it had Dave Warburton: Yeah. JK: its day five, five, six years ago when it was new and people just wanted to get an idea. Just one more thing before I move on. Go for it, on. Dave Warburton: Can I say something one more thing? I actually think it's it's it's really important, I think, for anybody starting out. don't don't advertise a cheap fee as you as you as your lead. We did it back in the day. you know, we were we I mean we were 999 pounds plus VAT to sell a house from day at the start, and we were doing deals at 799 and 849 to sell your JK: Peace. Dave Warburton: house. And it's like what when I look back now, it makes me feel sick. Pe people if you niche properly, y people don't want that. They're not after the cheapest possible fee. They're after value and they want to work with someone that's going to get them from A to B. So that so that's another I mean God Jesus Christ, you open up it. JK: That, that leads on nicely, Dave, to the next two questions that I've got, which feeds into that. So maybe you can go into that a bit more, but just want to say something quickly that you briefly mentioned that we didn't touch on it. And I'm not going to go down a rabbit hole on is AI. I do feel like AI now, if you're starting a business, AI can be an absolute game changer for you as a, as a one person operator. And if you set up the AI correctly. So one, one thing I would do if I was a self-employed agent or starting out on my own again, is I would write out the brand guidelines for my business, write out how I speak, write out how we communicate with clients, which kind of moves into how you speak, how we market properties, how we sell properties, everything that we want to do. Then store that on a external Google Drive in a separate folder and allow all the AIs that you use to access that folder. So the branding. and tone of voice and everything is consistent across every AI that you use. And you can set up things like agents to respond to emails and things like that. I'm not going to go down that rabbit hole now, but just briefly, think AI for 20 pounds a month, when you're really in the early stages and in the trenches and you need some extra help, AI can do a lot of the heavy lifting for you on the administration side. So the next two questions that I was going to ask is, Would you go straight out at 2 % which you kind of covered there, Dave? Would you go straight out at 2 % with zero stock? And how would you get your first 10 instructions? Dave Warburton: How would what? Sorry, what was the last one? JK: And how would you get your first 10 listings? Dave Warburton: so in in answer to the fee question, I I wouldn't advertise my fee for a start. So I think that that's something that's that's key. I I wouldn't lead with a cheap fee or any form of reduction to generate leads. It's just not necessary. The hook needs to be your knowledge, whether that's through well, the it'll be a combination of different part types of marketing, won't it? So if we if we're if you're starting out and you're doing Two and three different things really, really well. So community interviews and making sure that you're very visible across social media, you are sending direct mail, etc. You you shouldn't need to do anything on your fee in terms of generating that lead. Your lead will come from you being the most knowledgeable person in your local community and the quality of the direct mail that you actually send. So that's the first thing I would say. I don't I don't think you need to advertise a fee. Have we done fee deals? Of course we have. You know, when we've when when I first started the Burton James brand, even though we had a l we had another brand behind us, that there were two separate things. People didn't know about that that they were connected. So it was a genuine cold start. But there was no need to advertise the cheap fee. But if you get an opportunity on a really great house and they've had fine and country and Savils out and and then I come along without with a website with no houses on it. Is that going to incentivize someone? Of course it is. Maybe. If I you know if I come in and Savile's or Fine and Country a 1.5, would I do a one percent fee on a on a million pound house to get myself going? Of course I would. So y there'll always be deals. Do we do deals today? Of course we do. It it's it's but but to get yourself there It's not necessary. You do not need to advertise a cheap fee to get yourself in the living room. So I would argue that's the cars come home. Definitely. I don't think you need to do that. What was the second part of the question? JK: So the Simon Gates: Cannot JK: first one was, would you go 2 % with zero stock? And the second one was, how would you get your first 10 instructions? So would Dave Warburton: Sorry, block taxes, sorry. JK: it be letters, market updates, knocking doors, old contacts, social media, who's in your phone, that kind of stuff? Simon Gates: So j just on the the the fee side of things, like like Dave says, I think anyone when they're setting up and they've got a mortgage to pay and mouths to feed, they'd be lying if they said they weren't doing some deals to to get the money in. so I think yeah, deals deals would be done at the start. I think you guys are examples, I think Ian has said it before, where the first few to get you out there and get the brand known and then you do such a fucking good job that you can then charge what you're worth. bit like I think, you know, was Ian charging upfront fees to start with? No, and then all and then starts charging and then charges more, charges more, charges more, and so on. I think I'd go really I don't know exactly how this would play out, but just it was interesting to hear what Dave was saying. Because every estate agent tends to say they're this they're different, right? We're different. And then they go and launch and they're exactly the same as what everyone else is. So what can you do to stand out? So actually, do you say on your website your fee? Are you the only agent in town who actually transparently says your fee? I'm not saying that's that's the right thing to do, I'm just thinking out loud. But and then also do you do something very bold and different with your fee? So, for example, Ian press some of his blended fees, fet flexi fees, whatever they're called, and go, actually, this is how my fees work, for example. So being being bold. transparent with it I would say on the fee side of things. and then in terms of where your instructions come from, let's say if you were starting a business now, two things straight away. One, the phone is the most powerful piece of tech you're gonna have. Like immediately I would be going through my phone book if I was launching an estate agency tomorrow, WhatsApp broadcast list, or I'll be phoning people saying great news, really excited, launch my own estate agency. Have you got anyone who needs help moving home right now? Or can I help you at all? Can I add you to a mailing list? Can you leave me a review if I've given you advice before? Can you follow my socials? So business development starts at home, use a phone. And then if someone had a gun to my head and said, Simon, you need to get a listing by the end of today, well, I'm gonna go knock on doors. I'm gonna go knock on Dave Warburton: Yeah, hundred percent. Simon Gates: doors. People have a board outside saying for sale, aka help me. And at the moment we've got stock levels, David talked about it all the time, stock levels at a dozen year high. There's so many dissatisfied sellers out there who are not being given the proper and correct advice from their estate agent. Or agent's saying, Market shit. Well, it's it's not great, but actually your property's not priced correctly and it's got shit marketing. Let me help you. So that's where I start. JK: So let me ask you a Dave Warburton: Right. JK: question inside. if you were, if you were that agent, then you said you needed to get that instruction by the end of the day, you went door knocking. What would you be saying? Would you be telling people you've got frozen peas in the boot or would you be doing something that actually works? Simon Gates: I I I've I'd I've used frozen pea in the math in the math? What the hell was that I just said? I've used the frozen JK: In the mouth. Simon Gates: pea method in the past. I'm so clever, I'm trying to use two words at once. the frozen pea method had yeah, worked worked in the past. I think the whole like bringing their barrier down of I'm not trying to come into your house and sell your home right now. has worked. But knocking on knocking on doors and not just I'm an amazing estate agent or your agent shit. Actually do my research and say, I've had a look at your listing. I think there are a few things you could improve upon to increase chances selling. I'd love to walk it through with you or here is the information, I'll leave it with you and do that. 38% of what I used to sell had failed to sell another estate agent. So I loved being the first choice second agent. Dave said it earlier. easier to not have to negotiate on your fee when they've had a shit service elsewhere. so yeah I don't it's not rocket science just knock on their door and say, look, I can see you've been on the Dave Warburton: Yeah. Simon Gates: market for a while. Here's what I would JK: think a lot of people are scared though of that rejection and what's going to be said. So advice I would give somebody and it's something I've done before when I needed instructions to door knock was do a little analysis of their house and with AI you could do this now, analyze their listing, put together a template, put together a couple of bits of A4 of analyzing their listing and the advice that you would give them. So then you could knock on their door and say, Hey, notice you're on the market. As you said, basically what you said, Sy, and say, look. Simon Gates: I was gonna say, is that not what I just said? JK: But, but actually have it in your hand Dave Warburton: Yeah, JK: rather than say, I'd walk through it, have it in your hand and hand it over to them and say, if you'd like me to walk you through it, actually prepare that information. So you can also put it through their door as well as a letter. So if they don't answer the front door and you've gone to the trouble of doing it, Hey, I'm Simon. I was in the area. did knock on the door. You weren't in, bosh, through the door. And, and, but also equally have a hook. Notice obviously you are looking to move. Don't seem to have you registered for buying. If you're looking to stay local, give me a call. I'd love to help you. Also equally, I'm connected to agents all over the country via the internet. If you're looking to change area, perhaps I can help you with that too. Just build the relationship. Simon Gates: Just on one thing she said there as well about, you know, the personality profile, personality type, your typical estate agent is we are fearful of rejection. We're people pleasers, we like to get yeses. I'd say on that rejection side, if someone listening to this hasn't door knocked and wants to go out and do it, but they're fearful of rejection, go and knock on soul boards. Knock on the soul board, hello, I see you've got a soul board outside, congratulations. Are you looking to stay local? Can I help you find somewhere? You're not trying to sell their house. And what do you need as a brand new estate agent? You need buyers on your books. Because if you're speaking Dave Warburton: Yeah. Simon Gates: to a seller and they go, well, that agent over there has got ten offices and they've got an office in London, they've got thousands of buyers, how can you compete with that? And a lot of agents will be like, fuck, I can't compete with that. Your point. JK: Well, if they haven't found you can do bio campaigns, can't you? There's so much you can do. Simon Gates: And and you both and you both know how powerful bar campaigns are. And if you can be sending out JK: 100%. Simon Gates: letters saying, I've got a bar for your house, like prospecting works best when it feels like a service. So yeah, I think that something I wrote down earlier when I think before we hit record in terms of what I think a lot of ages need to be doing in the market right now. I think is a lot of time is being spent on educating sellers on correct pricing, which is obviously important. But actually missing the other half of it is to be a confidence dealer. Tell buyers what a great time to buy. Like that you haven't got other competition Dave Warburton: Well yes. Simon Gates: in the market from other buyers. You've probably got some decent negotiating power because sellers have got loads of competition. Like buy a property now. If if you can make the numbers work, go and buy right now. Because JK: I've got something to say on that as well. Sorry, that's a great point. And that's something I often say in the living room to sellers is that, you know, people say, well, you know, the market's not as good as it was five years ago. What depends on how you frame good. And Simon Gates: Hmm. JK: five years ago meant 15 people outside the front of your house, trying to buy it and offer you a high price. But also equally, when you flip that position to being a buyer, you're one of the 15 people on the next house. And you've then got five minutes to decide where you're going to live for the next five, 10, 15 years of your life. Which market would you rather buy in? Simon Gates: Well g look, flip that question to Dave. Dave, you've said in this podcast a few times you overpaid for your house, right? By what, fifty grand or something? Because of exactly what James was saying. So what so JK: week negotiator. Simon Gates: what so so what market would you have preferred to to to buy in? Would it have been that one or this one now? JK: He overpaid for a property that has got no internet connection either. Dave Warburton: Right. So my connection went then. is it back? Is it back? No, fucking hell. JK: In other news, water is wet. Simon Gates: Yeah, in fact. Dave Warburton: god. hang on what is going on here? JK: So he said, you overpaid for your house Dave. Dave Warburton: yes. Is that what you said is that what you actually said? JK: Well, we think you overpaid. Simon Gates: Yeah. JK: We're saying you overpaid because apparently the old owners took all the fibre broadband with them when they moved. Dave Warburton: Right, ask me the question again. Go on. Simon Gates: So which market th I don't there I don't think there's a right or wrong answer to this 'cause it's it's choose your harder, but which market would you have preferred to be buying in? The one where you've overpaid and you had loads of competition from other buyers and had to make a very quick decision, or would you prefer to buy in this market where you haven't got competition from other buyers, you can take your time and you've got you've got more negotia more negotiation power on your side? Dave Warburton: Yeah, hundred percent. I would much rather be buying now because I I mean, i well, I've done this job over twenty years. I used myself as a test case that if we were buying in twenty twenty one, your house would be inundated with potential suitors, you'd get more than it was actually probably worth. And I'm an example. I've done this job for over twenty years and I paid thirty to forty thousand pounds too much for my property at that point in time. And the reason I did that is because three other people wanted it and I had to, because I had to move at that point. So right now, if I was buying my house again, I'm absolutely convinced that I would have got it considerably cheaper because there was no competition for it. or there would be less competition for it. So yeah, you're absolutely right. When you flip it, you you you JK: So two questions to follow up from that. So would you take any house initially or would you be selective from day one? Dave Warburton: I would be selective. JK: Case. Simon Gates: Yeah, on the selective side, going back to what I said earlier, choosing that market, like what market you're going to operate in. So I if I was hyperlocal and I'm doing the Perth's estate in Newport Pagnall, that could be a one bed maisonette, that could be a five bed detach, but it's it's the Perth's Estate in Newport Pagnal. If someone says to me, Do you wanna go sell this in Gifford Park? No, I'm the Perth Estate specialist. And the flip side's that if I'm dealing with peer properties, I'm not selling a new build. Or if I'm a million pound plus, I'm dealing with a million pound plus. So yeah, making sure that you're very specific on that. I think Dave touched on it earlier where a certain type of property as well. It's like when I see your videos, Dave, all the I don't mean it it's gonna come out the wrong way, but they all look very similar to me. And I mean that in a positive, like when you look at the the style and condition of them, they all look pucker. Dave Warburton: Mm. Yeah. It's true. Simon Gates: So that and that might be something at a few hundred grand, it might be a couple of million quid. But Dave Warburton: Mm. Simon Gates: they all have a certain start of consistency. Yeah. JK: Consistency is the word you're looking for, it? Dave Warburton: Yes, same. Yeah. And that's what you do. You attract the same. I just want to go back a few steps, you something's come to me about about the fee again, you know, when you're starting out and you're scared to you you think that fee's your mo the motivator. Like if you try and put yourself in the s in the the shoes of the seller. Like if you're let's just say you you want to try and break into the mid to high end market, if if you are the seller, And you've got your own business or and that particular person, you know, what what is your most typical appointment, for example? One of my most typical appointments is that it's an older couple who are approaching or have retired. they're in a a one 1.5 million pound house in my area and they're looking to downsize because they're pottering around in their five thousand square foot house. and they're looking to just find something that's a maybe a lock up and leave because they're gonna go and travel. or they just need something that is a lot smaller just for them to and maybe have the grandkids over occasionally. So they're usually looking to cut the house size by half and cut the house value by half and bank a load of cash. Do you honestly think that that person who is in a 1.5 million pound house, retiring, had a really successful career, is going to to to pick an agent based on what they are going to pay them? Would they would they would they employ Purple Bricks to sell their £1.5 million house? Honestly, are they going to choose them because they are £1200 plus that and they've got an app 24-7? JK: Probably not. Dave Warburton: No. They're going to pick what you like to to say, JK, which I think you probably stole off Gatesy, the trusted advisor. They they want they want they want that 100% stole it off Gatesy or Chris Watkin. JK: Definitely didn't. Dave Warburton: You still have someone because you steal everything. JK: That was my own. Dave Warburton: No, no, it wasn't. so they that my point is they're just not picking based on that. Now what they might do is pick Savile's, Fine and Country, Hamptons, whoever it might be in your area, who are perceived to be the the agent that sells that type of property and has a few sales in the area. So by you sticking a leaflet through the door. And saying, we will sell your house for five thousand pounds plus that or one percent we've got a deal on. They they're not picking that up when they shop in Louis Vuitton and Selfridges and what and and eat at the finest restaurants. They're not picking that up and going, Jeff, Dade's got a deal on here, he'll sell our house for five grand. It's just not gonna happen. So y you need to find other ways of getting through the door. So so that I w I guess what I'm trying to say is adopt the mentality of what gets me in the living room. Now if you if you have to do a deal once you're in the living room, because you like I say, you're up against a couple of really experienced estate agents who've got Kudos in the area and they've they've got results and all that sort of stuff, understandable and and you can really sell yourself on passion. Look, you know, this is my business. I don't get paid personally if I don't sell you home. And I'm gonna work really bloody hard for you every second of every single day. you might only client or one of only a few and therefore I've got more time. Th the passion comes afterwards. But I am absolutely convinced, having done this for 10 years and done it every which way, that the the the lead does not need to revolve around fee. And and that's at every end of the market by the way, because even if you sell in two bed terraces and three bed semis, they'll naturally gravitate towards the one that's got the most boards in the area anyway. So you need to find a way of getting through the door. And it's not scattergun, it's becoming known for something and being of value to them. So you've got to think about how you become valuable to them and getting yourself out there on camera, community interviews, like advisory direct mail and becoming that trusted advisor like Gatesy told us about. That's the way to do it. JK: Cool. Well, thank you for that, adding that Dave. So, all right. So one thing that I guess you probably come up a lot against, Cyend and to be fair, it's a question we get asked as well a lot of the time for people that are kind of going, looking to go from one to what someone knew, for example, like who would be your first hire? So if you were starting out again, who would you hire first? Would you hire a negotiator, PA, sales progresser? a value up marketing person, you know, who would you hire first? Simon Gates: So for me, so t two things. First of all, everyone I speak to on the podcast always says in hindsight, obviously hindsight is a wonderful thing. They wish they'd hired someone sooner. So you should have hired someone before they were ready to do so. also wish that they'd paid someone more money, so maybe got that. A or B player rather than just going fuck it bums on seats and it's a C or D player. So actually pay for the extra quality. for me it would be look you you You live and breathe by stock, right? You've got to have stock on your books, you've got to have something to sell in estate agencies and make any money. So my job should be to try and bring in more business. and in doing so, I'm perhaps gonna leave a trail of destruction behind me. And whilst AI can do a lot in the modern world. I'd be having a kind of sweeper who would just make sure everything is sorted. Like one of the most important people in my office, well, two ladies who who who worked part-time. Sharon and Helen, they knew what I was thinking before I knew what I was thinking. So when I was out about on valuations, doing getting properties on the market, I'd come back and they're like, this is sorted, this is sorted, this is sorted. I didn't have to worry about it. So I was either on valuations or I was following up valuations. That's kind of what my role is. So yeah, getting that administrative person, I would say, would be be the first thing. JK: Bye you Dave. Dave Warburton: What's the question? JK: Who would be your first hire? Sorry, did your internet connection go again? Dave Warburton: I think it might have done. right, who would Simon Gates: It would be his bur his b JK: My first day's first hire would be IT support. Simon Gates: Yeah. Dave Warburton: I was nodding I was Yeah, I was nodding along with Gates Queen, yeah, this is gold, this is gold. I don't know what's been asked. yeah, it so what would my first hire be? I think again, like if you're starting out, I mean I brought somebody with me very early on from my my old corporate days who was an absolute rock immediately, you know. She was there to answer phones, but she would do absolutely everything. all the all the administration, she was out knocking on doors, we're actually talking about that yesterday. She's like knocking on doors with us, delivering the scatter gun leaflets that you shouldn't do, all that sort of stuff. So I think you you need to manage yourself out of all administrative tasks as quickly as you possibly can. You need to be focusing solely on generating new business, whatever that that strategy is. So all the the minuscule administration tasks. And then the next one as you start to grow a little bit would be get yourself off viewings. I know there's plenty of opportunity on viewings, potentially if somebody's got a house to sell, mortgage appointments, all that sort of stuff. But JK in particular, how many times do we see it with with TCA members where they're struggling to get themselves off viewings? because JK: Yeah. Dave Warburton: they think that that is like one of the main places that you'll that that you you need to be seen to lead. It's more about how you manage the expectations of the seller, really. and and and make them understand what the most important parts of this process are. So that that would be something else I would do. Once I get to a certain point, I would hire somebody competent to do my viewings for me, not just a door opener, somebody that can represent the business because it is generally one of the first things people will see and meet. One of the first people people will meet, because everything else will be done online and over the phone. but yeah, I would say administrative tasks, get yourself off those and Get yourself somebody solid to do viewings. JK: Can I just say in this day and age as well, I we obviously, started my business 15 years ago this year and where the business, so where a state agency is now and all of the tools available compared to where they were 15 years ago are totally different. So there's so much you can outsource now. So you can outsource sales progression on a no sale, no fee basis. You can outsource viewings to a degree. I'm not sure that's what I would do personally, but you can outsource viewings. You can outsource PA. There's a lot of people using South Africa at the moment to outsource their sort of PA needs to outsource photography to professional photographers. There's a lot that you can do and sort of limit your exposure on before you take somebody on full time. So I think my first hire would probably be in terms of physical salary would be a negotiator, somebody in the office that can do a bit of the admin as well. But you need someone to be speaking to buyers, clients, making things happen and actually generating business because the rest of it can all be outsourced. So final couple of questions, because I'm conscious that it's been a great pod, but I'm also conscious of time. So last two. What's so Simon, think you can answer this question really well, possibly from a slightly different angle. But what's one thing you've spent years learning that you'd implement on day one this time, if you set up an agency? Simon Gates: Love that question. What's one thing I've spent years learning that I'd implement on day one? JK: It's a tough question, it? Because I think the other thing as well is that I'll give you some time to think and I'll talk. Simon Gates: Yeah, I mean that my yeah, my well no, I think my my brain was to there's so many different things. The thing I would say again, hindsight is a wonderful thing. And it this might be really left field, but I'd actually say mindset. I think the the mindset is so important, like having JK: So what does that look like? Unpack that for me. Simon Gates: so for example I remember reading The Chimp Paradox, I I don't know however long ago that was, probably seven or eight years ago. And I was like, I wish I'd read that book earlier in my career to understand that we all have that chimp on our shoulder, right? That's telling you not good enough or whatever. and then also the Tony Robbins event I went to at the start September. I wish I'd done that ten years ago. because and and JK: Yeah. I wish I'd known you were going to come with you. Simon Gates: To give you a like an example JK: Did Toby go to that one with you as well? Simon Gates: let it go. one of the key things from that, again, in terms of your mindset, you can turn you can flip the way you're thinking round at just the click of your fingers and turn yourself into a peak state of mind. So you you imagine now that you are in your car. And you're about to go into a valuation appointment of a two million pound property, you're excited for it, and you get a phone call, and it's someone who's just pulled out of a two million deal and it's a 40 grand fee that's dropped, right? Whether you realize it or not, you're walking out of your car into that house thinking about that 40 grand fee that's just dropped. But his thing was you need to like let that go. Play a certain song, which mentally will get you in a peak state of mind. You forget about that. And you go into the appointment like nothing has happened. Which is easy. JK: think you said that on your pod though, didn't you? When you broke it down, when you went through, cause that, mean, to be honest, I think I said to you privately one to one, and I don't mind saying it on here. Like that pod, you know, I listened to of yours, it landed it quite a good time for me in terms of that mindset, in terms of, know, there was a lot, lot going on in my life personally and professionally. and like one of the things that you, I think you mentioned from it is that, you know, is, is the three o'clock valuation getting the same version of you as the 10.30. You know, if you been into the first two and they both said, you know, the other agent can do it for half percent. And, you know, they want to put it on a hundred grand more. Are you giving them the best version of yourself in every single valuation? Which is absolutely right. I think, you know, if you're not giving yourself, giving yourself the best opportunity by being the best version of yourself in each appointment, then you're missing out. Simon Gates: Yeah, and it's like you imagine like someone answering a phone in the morning and it's good morning, James Kendall, Simon speaking, how can I help? And then like mid to late afternoon, it's afternoon Simon speaking. Like how your energy is gonna reduce during the day. And you you've yeah, you've got to get yourself in a peak state of mind and again, easier said than done. But I love the Alex Hormosy quote, which I'm sure I would have said in in that podcast episode, was if you can wake up in a bad mood for no reason, you can wake up in a good mood for no reason. JK: Yeah. Simon Gates: Don't need an excuse to feel good. And we're all guilty of it. You can wake up and coach, you know, I've I just I'm gonna be in a shit mood today. We've all been there. So why can you not wake up and have no reason for it to be a good day? And coach, you know what? I'm gonna make today a fucking good day. So to yeah, to answer your question, I think that The mindset is so so powerful. I think particularly for you boys, when it comes to like charging two percent and going into higher end, right? You've got to have great marketing, you've got to be worth it. But the main thing is there, when you go and knock on that person's door, you've got to truly believe in yourself. Because would James hire James Kendall at two percent? If you don't say yes in your own head to that, you're never gonna get that in the living room. JK: No, you got exactly that. You've got to believe that you're worth it because you can't sell a Fiat 500 for the same money as a Ferrari. You this is not the same. They're both cars at four seats in the steering wheel, but they're completely different things. What's one thing that I would implement on day one that I've spent years learning is probably the, the question is probably the answer. And knowing what I know now, again, hindsight is a wonderful thing as you said, is I would commit to learning a lot earlier because that's one thing I think that held me back is, know, what's the, again, another phrase, but Einstein, know, insanity is doing the same thing, expecting a different result, you know, literally copy and pasting what I'd learned from my corporate days, into my own estate agency. And it carried me so far, but you need to commit to learning. think one of the biggest things I learned was letting go of ego. and committing to learning to being better. So I'm now in a position now where I can now help others do the same, but I'm very much like yourself, always constantly learning, always looking for ways to improve, not just business, but myself. How can I constantly reinvent myself and constantly try and be the best version of, say it sounds wanky sometimes when you hear people say, be the best version of yourself, but. It's true. If you commit to, you know, being the best version, then what person's going to show up in five years that wasn't showing up today? Simon Gates: Yeah, definitely. And a couple of things you'd said there and a couple of cliches, but what got you here won't get you there came to mind and what you were saying about you've you you've what you've learned in corporate career. but then also you haven't come this far just to come this far. Like keep keep going past that. as well. So I think those are two hugely important points there. And then the final thing, particularly for you guys with the TCA, I've been fortunate enough to be in the room a couple of times where you've asked me to come and present. And you guys are there giving loads of value, but at the same time, you're also learning from the room. And one of the saying is when you when you teach, you learn it twice. So I go and like went last week, went and spent a day learning from Damon Hughes. I've now put a PDF together. I'm recording a podcast on it and I'm sharing with agents what I've learned from that. So by teaching it, I'm learning it twice, I'm learning it over, which is very powerful. JK: And what, are they, I think there's a, there's a thing as well where they say that, you know, you've, you've, if you can learn something, it is one thing, but to really understand it, you've got to be able to explain it to somebody that's never done it. Simon Gates: Yeah, and I think one the things Tony Robbins had said was n knowing is doing. And if you're not doing something, you don't you might know it but you don't understand it. and his voice. It's JK: Yeah. He's got a great voice, any Tony Robbins. Yeah. Simon Gates: interesting what so his voice has just got fucked over the years because of how much he talked. JK: Yeah, shouting. Simon Gates: Like there were of a four-day event, two of the days, he's like on stage for 10 hours, I would say. but he's got to a point now in his life where he there's certain bits where it's him talking on the big screen because he has to go and rest. But he shared something where a doctor, I don't know what they were doing, X-ray or put a camera down his throat, I don't know what it was, and the doctor was like looking at your vocal cords, you should not be able to talk. Like it is ridiculous. But again, the power of the mind. But he gets himself before he goes on stage, I don't know if you've ever seen it, but he's like he's got like a mini trampoline he takes everywhere. He's bouncing up and down a mini trampoline so that when he comes on stage, music blasts, like he gets himself into a peak state. and it's very Yeah, but it's very American JK: Right. Just the mental image of that in my head. Like, who's that guy on the trampoline down there? that's Tony Robbins. Simon Gates: It's very American, it's very OTT, it's very uncomfortable being a reserved Brit, but it's definitely changed my physiology of how I show up to things because energy is infectious, right? And your team members, buyers, sellers, family, friends, they they're gonna they're gonna vibe off of that and you wanna be it's overused, but you wanna be the radiator, not the drain in the room. We've all we all know JK: Is this your way of telling us if your rider for your next speak in our event, we've got to get you a mini trampoline in. Simon Gates: I don't about Millie Trampoline and this again, it's too American, but it I would it if I if I was running a big event, if I was doing like a conference tomorrow, I'd make sure that there is there's some fucking sick music pumping all the time to get people going. But I wouldn't expect them to be dancing and hugging, but definitely because you y you know, like when you're at conference all day. You kind of sit on your seat, but then you get on your phone, you start scrolling your phone. There's so many pattern disres dis pattern disruptors, if that's the right word, at that event where you're just focused on it the whole time. You kind of you never know when music's just gonna play out of nowhere and then people are on their feet and start moving. It's very powerful. JK: Nice. Cool. All right. Well, I think it's probably a good place to call it, mate. It's been exceptional value. Anything else you'd like to add before we call it a day? Simon Gates: really good episode 'cause the in the story wasn't there. JK: Yeah, I agree. I agree. So on that basis, don't forget the GoFundMe for Dave Warburton's internet connection. Simon Gates: Ha ha. JK: But no, really appreciate you coming on, mate and giving up your time. Always gold. Thanks everyone for listening and obviously make sure you check out the second best industry podcast, opening the gates to more listings. Is it more listings or new listings? Simon Gates: More less thanks. JK: I always get it wrong, don't I? But I did get it right that time. I'm sure if you're listening to this, you know who Simon is already, but... If you don't, LinkedIn, opening the gates, Instagram, opening the gates. Thanks for joining us and we'll see you all next week.