Latest / She's On The Money / How To Identify Spending Addiction

Transcript

How To Identify Spending Addiction · She's On The Money

0:00
Speaker 1: Hello, my name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud your
0:04
Speaker 1: the Order Kerni Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before
0:08
Speaker 1: we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I
0:11
Speaker 1: would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land
0:14
Speaker 1: of which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country,
0:18
Speaker 1: acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming
0:22
Speaker 1: through as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing
0:27
Speaker 1: and the storytelling of you to make a difference for
0:30
Speaker 1: today and lasting impact for tomorrow. Let's get into it.
0:34
Speaker 2: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
0:57
Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money the podcast
1:00
Speaker 3: Millennials who Want Financial Freedom. The stereotypical female schopperholic is
1:05
Speaker 3: everywhere in pop culture, even in twenty twenty two. There's
1:08
Speaker 3: the cult favorite Carrie Bradshaw from Sex in the City,
1:11
Speaker 3: who bought so many pairs of four hundred dollars shoes
1:13
Speaker 3: that she couldn't afford a home deposit and bragg to
1:16
Speaker 3: have purchased a copy of Vogue over dinner. Then there's
1:18
Speaker 3: Rebecca Blimwood, the compulsive buyer turned personal finance guru heroine
1:22
Speaker 3: of Confessions of a Schoppoholic. Interestingly, this addiction doesn't discriminate
1:26
Speaker 3: by gender, regardless of how many episodes of Sex and
1:29
Speaker 3: the City you've binged. The media turms of blind eyes
1:31
Speaker 3: the issue of male schopperholics even though men are about
1:34
Speaker 3: as likely as women to be compulsive buyers, and by
1:37
Speaker 3: doing so, it downplays the seriousness of the issue, which
1:40
Speaker 3: is exactly what we are going to discuss today. My
1:42
Speaker 3: name is Jessica Ricky, and joining me as always is
1:45
Speaker 3: Victoria to Vine. This chat has come at a hopeful time,
1:49
Speaker 3: given Christmas is less than three months away.
1:52
Speaker 2: I look at you.
1:53
Speaker 4: You are always so excited when Christmas is involved, but
1:56
Speaker 4: I feel like this is very timely.
1:58
Speaker 3: I would agree, and Christmas is cited as the hardest
2:01
Speaker 3: period of the year for people struggling with oniomania. The
2:04
Speaker 3: I've just used the definition I hadn't heard of before
2:06
Speaker 3: doing the research for this episode.
2:08
Speaker 4: And I'm impressed you've got it out.
2:09
Speaker 3: Clearly, I'm doing the best that I can. Why do
2:12
Speaker 3: you think that this is the case though.
2:14
Speaker 4: Look, we've all used phrases just like shopoholic or saying
2:17
Speaker 4: things like oh my gosh, I shopped until I dropped.
2:20
Speaker 4: And most of us can admit to an impulse buy
2:22
Speaker 4: or a big spending splurge. But spending addiction is actually
2:26
Speaker 4: very serious. It's very understudied, and that's probably why you've
2:29
Speaker 4: never heard the proper definition for it. And it's also
2:32
Speaker 4: really underappreciated. At the end of the day, oniomania is
2:35
Speaker 4: a shopping addiction, and it is characterized by an eagerness
2:38
Speaker 4: to purchase unnecessary or quote superfluous things under lack of
2:43
Speaker 4: impulse control. When it comes to shopping. Oniomania, which is
2:46
Speaker 4: compulsive shopping or most commonly referred to as a shopping addiction,
2:50
Speaker 4: is perhaps one of the most socially acceptable addictions, which
2:53
Speaker 4: is why we don't use the real name for it
2:55
Speaker 4: very often. Jess, think about it. We're surrounded by advertising
2:57
Speaker 4: that tells us that buying makes us happy and it's
3:00
Speaker 4: something we should do on a daily basis.
3:01
Speaker 3: That's a really good point. Actually, before we get any
3:03
Speaker 3: further into the show, let's add a little content warning,
3:06
Speaker 3: because this is an episode about an addiction, even if
3:09
Speaker 3: it is one that seems maybe frivolous or freely on
3:11
Speaker 3: the surface, and we will be talking about abuse as
3:14
Speaker 3: a cause for this, but we are looking into it
3:17
Speaker 3: and talking about it to offer support. So if you're
3:19
Speaker 3: not ready to hear this, or if you do need
3:20
Speaker 3: any extra help, check out the resources that we've popped
3:23
Speaker 3: in the show notes, reach out to a professional or
3:25
Speaker 3: a supportive friend, and please look after yourself.
3:28
Speaker 4: That's right, Jesse. It is also really tricky because of
3:30
Speaker 4: the world that we live in. Like you said before,
3:32
Speaker 4: it has been romanticized for forever. We've got Kerry Bradshaw
3:36
Speaker 4: and Rebecca Bloomfield, all of which a lot of us
3:39
Speaker 4: historically quote cough me, have really looked up to and
3:43
Speaker 4: arguably idolized. Like what young woman doesn't want to live
3:47
Speaker 4: in New York and have the shoe collection that Kerry
3:49
Speaker 4: Bradshaw does. Like I am, literally Jessica Ricci buying Manolo's
3:54
Speaker 4: to wear at my wedding hat because she had them.
3:57
Speaker 4: If that is not iconic, I don't know what is.
4:00
Speaker 4: Which raises the question of why we've romanticized people in
4:03
Speaker 4: these positions before and not really ever called it out.
4:06
Speaker 4: Jess When was the last time you heard a story
4:09
Speaker 4: about a guy with a shopping addiction? Can't even tell
4:12
Speaker 4: you well, actually, I've got an example. Do you want
4:14
Speaker 4: to hear one? Absolutely a little while ago, and I
4:16
Speaker 4: saved this probably a couple of years ago. I put
4:19
Speaker 4: it into my email so that one day when we
4:21
Speaker 4: did an episode on shopping addictions, I could bring it up.
4:24
Speaker 4: But it was from an article in GQ, and it
4:26
Speaker 4: was called My Gucci Addiction, if you want to look
4:29
Speaker 4: it up, and it was about a guy who managed
4:31
Speaker 4: to spend six hundred and thirty eight four hundred and
4:34
Speaker 4: twelve dollars and ninety seven cents in three years on
4:38
Speaker 4: designer clothing.
4:39
Speaker 3: That is insane.
4:40
Speaker 4: I thought it was insane at the time, but it's
4:42
Speaker 4: really rare to see a prominent example of a male shopoholic,
4:46
Speaker 4: because often when men spend their money, it seemed to be,
4:49
Speaker 4: oh my gosh, he enjoys what he earns and he
4:52
Speaker 4: deserves it, whereas when women do it, it seemed to
4:55
Speaker 4: be frivolous because people don't project the same value onto
4:58
Speaker 4: women's things as they do men's. It was an interesting read,
5:01
Speaker 4: and you guys can look it up. It was called
5:03
Speaker 4: my Gucci Addiction, and he talked about how he owned
5:05
Speaker 4: this fancy Ostridge leather Gucci jacket from Gucci which was
5:09
Speaker 4: like thirteen thousand dollars or something ridiculous, and how he
5:12
Speaker 4: actually never wore it, and to me it was wild.
5:15
Speaker 4: But I think it's really important today, Jess, that we
5:17
Speaker 4: really talk about this tricky issue because in the world
5:20
Speaker 4: we live in where shopping is part of life, it's
5:22
Speaker 4: honestly harder to avoid feeding the addiction when every day
5:25
Speaker 4: offers up a new dopamine hit in the form of
5:27
Speaker 4: adding more items to our physical or more relevantly, our
5:31
Speaker 4: digital cut.
5:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it definitely goes beyond, you know, going a
5:34
Speaker 3: little bit overboard splitching and a sale or treating yourself
5:37
Speaker 3: to a few cute, little new things. It looks a
5:40
Speaker 3: little bit different to that. Can you explain it a
5:42
Speaker 3: little bit further?
5:43
Speaker 4: Look like any other addictional, compulsive behavior. People literally can't
5:46
Speaker 4: stop with this. It is a very common addiction. Again,
5:50
Speaker 4: as we said before, the most commonly accepted addiction, but
5:54
Speaker 4: reported cases of shopping addictions can literally end in suicide.
5:58
Speaker 4: A lot of people have ended up in jail, and
6:00
Speaker 4: there are multiple cases just even in our own community,
6:03
Speaker 4: where it's been the reason for a marriage breakdown.
6:06
Speaker 3: Is this a new disorder or a new thing or
6:08
Speaker 3: has it just recently been identified.
6:10
Speaker 4: I don't believe it is new at all, but the
6:11
Speaker 4: phenomenon of excessive or uncontrolled buying or shopping has been
6:15
Speaker 4: described in a clinical setting for more than a century.
6:19
Speaker 4: So finally, in twenty twenty one, international experts in psychology
6:23
Speaker 4: have built a framework to diagnose compulsive buying shopping disorder,
6:27
Speaker 4: and surprisingly, up until now, there's been no formal accepted
6:30
Speaker 4: diagnosis for the disorder, despite it being highly prevalent, disabling
6:35
Speaker 4: and a growing problem that continues to contribute to over
6:38
Speaker 4: consumption and massive amounts of debt. The new guidelines, which
6:41
Speaker 4: were published in the Journal of Behavioral Addictions, confirms that
6:45
Speaker 4: excessive buying and shopping can be so serious to constitute
6:49
Speaker 4: a disorder, giving researchers and clinicians new powers to develop
6:52
Speaker 4: more targeted interventions for this debilitating condition. And an international
6:56
Speaker 4: collaboration which was led by Professor Mike Kurrios from Linda's
7:00
Speaker 4: University and Professor Astrodmula from the Hannover Medical School in Germany,
7:05
Speaker 4: have come up with the evidence based criteria for compulsive
7:08
Speaker 4: buying shopping disorder.
7:10
Speaker 3: Awesome, So what was the framework that they came up
7:12
Speaker 3: with on how we define spending addiction.
7:14
Speaker 4: Look, there are lots of different definitions, but their definition
7:17
Speaker 4: includes the following. So the first is preoccupation with shopping,
7:21
Speaker 4: which is basically an irresistible urge to buy a product,
7:24
Speaker 4: reduced control over buying behaviors, so you're spending more time
7:28
Speaker 4: or money shopping than you ever intended, buying products and
7:32
Speaker 4: not using them for the purposes they were intended to serve.
7:36
Speaker 4: Using shopping to regulate your mood, to experience a high,
7:39
Speaker 4: or to reduce tension, or if you're just bored as
7:42
Speaker 4: a result of compulsive buying, experiencing negative consequences or impairments,
7:47
Speaker 4: so things like guilt or shame, or significant debt or
7:50
Speaker 4: even just debt in general, and relationship problems, negative mood
7:54
Speaker 4: and cognitive symptoms if you're attempting to stop. So, for example,
7:57
Speaker 4: if you're trying to stop and not go shopping anymore,
8:00
Speaker 4: you end up anxious, You've got agitation, you're angry, you
8:03
Speaker 4: might be worried, or you've got a whole heap of rumination.
8:06
Speaker 4: And the last one was that despite the negative consequences,
8:09
Speaker 4: you continue to engage in dysfunctional shopping behavior. So I
8:13
Speaker 4: feel like all of those, at some point or other
8:16
Speaker 4: I've experienced. But moving on, Jess.
8:18
Speaker 3: A lot of those sound to me a lot like
8:20
Speaker 3: the signs of like a smoking addiction, because I feel
8:22
Speaker 3: like that's something you see really commonly, and you hear
8:24
Speaker 3: people talking particularly around like the anxiety and agitation, which
8:27
Speaker 3: is really funny.
8:27
Speaker 4: Because it's an actual addiction, Like you are not wrong
8:30
Speaker 4: at all, And these things would apply to gambling or
8:33
Speaker 4: smoking or drug use. Literally, jes every other type of
8:36
Speaker 4: addiction has these things. And even though you're not going
8:39
Speaker 4: to get quote withdrawal, clearly the negative mood and cognitive symptoms,
8:44
Speaker 4: if you're stopping of anxiety and agitation and anger, those
8:47
Speaker 4: are literal withdrawal symptoms.
8:50
Speaker 3: Is there anything else that we should know about this
8:52
Speaker 3: particular addiction.
8:52
Speaker 4: Yep. So in the article it also said it could
8:55
Speaker 4: be episodic or chronics, so it could happen, you know, infrequently,
8:58
Speaker 4: or it could be an ongoing issue. Compulsive shopping shares
9:02
Speaker 4: several characteristics with other psychological disorders, unsurprisingly, including anxiety and
9:08
Speaker 4: mood disorders, substance abuse, impulse control disorders, and OCD or
9:13
Speaker 4: obsessive compulsive disorder, and the research suggested that compulsive buying,
9:18
Speaker 4: because of the cravings, the highs, the other similarities in
9:21
Speaker 4: terms of the impulsivity, is very similar to other behavioral addictions,
9:25
Speaker 4: as you said before, Jess, like gambling, OCD, hoarding, or
9:28
Speaker 4: even drug use.
9:30
Speaker 3: That's really interesting. How common is this? So?
9:33
Speaker 4: Professor Kurios, who was part of the team to come
9:36
Speaker 4: up with the framework that we've been discussing, says that
9:39
Speaker 4: compulsive buying impacts around five percent of the population in
9:42
Speaker 4: developed economies, which makes sense. It's not all economies, it's
9:46
Speaker 4: just the developed ones, but that figure is very likely
9:50
Speaker 4: to rise. He also made two really good points that
9:52
Speaker 4: I've written down, Jess, that I think you might find interesting.
9:55
Speaker 4: The first was, in the past, to go shopping, the
9:58
Speaker 4: shops actually had to be open. Obviously, things are a
10:01
Speaker 4: lot more accessible. And the second was that the Internet
10:04
Speaker 4: allows you to shop online at night when the ability
10:06
Speaker 4: to control your thinking and your decision making might be
10:09
Speaker 4: compromised and a lot of people maybe have had a
10:12
Speaker 4: few drinks.
10:13
Speaker 3: That's actually really funny because the first thing I think
10:15
Speaker 3: of is, and I mean maybe not everyone's had this experience,
10:18
Speaker 3: but when you're stumbling out of a club at three
10:20
Speaker 3: o'clock in the morning. In Melbourne, there's you know the
10:23
Speaker 3: main strip where everybody goes out. Or if you're going
10:25
Speaker 3: down Chapel and you want to.
10:26
Speaker 4: Plan on Chapel, is that where we're going?
10:29
Speaker 3: If kabab, but you're wandering past all of the shops,
10:31
Speaker 3: and I have this really clear recollection of being quite
10:34
Speaker 3: drunk and wandering paste was like nicer boutiques and going
10:37
Speaker 3: I could spend four thousand dollars on a bag.
10:40
Speaker 4: Which I absolutely couldn't.
10:42
Speaker 3: But everything closed at three o'clock in the morning, right,
10:44
Speaker 3: so I can't walk in and put my money on
10:46
Speaker 3: the table and say give me that bag that I
10:48
Speaker 3: really want that I absolutely can't afford. But the point
10:51
Speaker 3: that they're making here the fact that online shopping is
10:53
Speaker 3: so accessible. I can plug my credit card details in
10:56
Speaker 3: my credit card details might even be saved in my
10:58
Speaker 3: Internet brows line that is three clicks away, and that
11:02
Speaker 3: bag's on the way to my house.
11:03
Speaker 4: Just a little while ago, we were on the plane
11:05
Speaker 4: and you let me know that there was actually Wi
11:09
Speaker 4: Fi on the plane, and so I came home from
11:12
Speaker 4: that trip. We went on to Finncon. I've come home
11:15
Speaker 4: to a number of parcels. I'm not mad about them,
11:17
Speaker 4: but I'm also like, Wow, the free alcohol on the
11:19
Speaker 4: plane and that are free Wi Fi really to get me.
11:22
Speaker 4: And that's not to trivialize what's going on. I think
11:25
Speaker 4: it's just to say, look, as much as this can
11:27
Speaker 4: go really far down the line, it's also in a
11:30
Speaker 4: way a little bit like alcohol. You've got different levels
11:33
Speaker 4: of alcohol abuse, right, Like we've got full blown alcoholism,
11:37
Speaker 4: but then we've also got binge drinking and maybe not
11:39
Speaker 4: being able to regulate ourselves properly when we do drink.
11:42
Speaker 4: And I think it's really important to understand that these
11:44
Speaker 4: things are on a spectrum and not necessarily you have
11:47
Speaker 4: a shopping addiction or you don't. And that's why we're
11:49
Speaker 4: talking about the legitimate frameworks around this, because these are
11:54
Speaker 4: things that everyday people struggle with. But then there is
11:57
Speaker 4: that small minority of our population, that five percent that
12:00
Speaker 4: really struggle with this. Above and beyond my little shopping
12:03
Speaker 4: spree that I had while we were in flight, Jess,
12:06
Speaker 4: I feel like as.
12:06
Speaker 3: Well, the really precise cocktail of not having access to
12:10
Speaker 3: stores and the rise of online shopping during the pandemic,
12:13
Speaker 3: alongside the rapidly increasing mental health crisis means that this
12:18
Speaker 3: kind of behavior has probably become a little bit more
12:21
Speaker 3: normalized when it comes to online shopping as well.
12:24
Speaker 4: Right, I mean going back to it. At the end
12:25
Speaker 4: of the day, shopping has always been normalized. It's kind
12:29
Speaker 4: of a quote funny thing that we see people do.
12:32
Speaker 4: Like it's unacceptable from my perspective because at the end
12:35
Speaker 4: of the day, we shouldn't be normalizing extreme online shopping. However,
12:39
Speaker 4: when your friend puts in a big iconic order like
12:42
Speaker 4: we don't go, oh my gosh, do you want to
12:43
Speaker 4: talk about that? Is there something else going on? You're like, oh,
12:46
Speaker 4: what did you get? Do you know what I mean?
12:47
Speaker 4: Like if I said to you, oh, Jess, I spent
12:49
Speaker 4: one thousand dollars online today, your first comment, I guarantee
12:53
Speaker 4: won't be like, oh are you okay? It would be like, oh,
12:56
Speaker 4: what did you get? And it's just such a different mentality.
13:00
Speaker 4: But I do think we need to be taking this
13:01
Speaker 4: seriously because just this is stopping our community from buying
13:05
Speaker 4: their first homes or getting out of dead or saving
13:07
Speaker 4: for holidays that they want to go on. Like, this
13:10
Speaker 4: stuff is stopping us achieving our financial goals. And if
13:13
Speaker 4: anything is stopping us achieving our financial goals. It's important
13:16
Speaker 4: to talk about. Absolutely.
13:18
Speaker 3: Let's go to a really quick break, and when we
13:20
Speaker 3: come back, I want to talk to you a little
13:21
Speaker 3: bit more about what might predispose us to these shopping addictions.
13:24
Speaker 3: Don't go anywhere. Welcome back everybody today on chees on
13:31
Speaker 3: the money. We are talking about shopping addiction. Can you
13:35
Speaker 3: talk me through what predisposes people to having this particular addiction?
13:39
Speaker 4: All right, So going back to the research, because I
13:41
Speaker 4: think that's a very good place to start. Researchers have
13:44
Speaker 4: found that one major risk factor for compulsive shopping is
13:48
Speaker 4: childhood adversity, which I found really surprising. So this includes
13:52
Speaker 4: having a physically abusive or negligent parent, an emotionally neglectful
13:57
Speaker 4: parent who demands the child earns their love through quote
14:00
Speaker 4: good behavior, families that have experienced financial reversals and fixate
14:05
Speaker 4: on lost luxury, which I think was a very interesting one.
14:09
Speaker 4: And in these difficult family environments, possessions are often used
14:13
Speaker 4: as a means of easing suffering, boosting self esteem, or
14:16
Speaker 4: restoring lost social status, which I think is really interesting
14:20
Speaker 4: and definitely not what I thought i'd find. When we
14:22
Speaker 4: dived into the research.
14:24
Speaker 3: It makes a lot of sense. Though I've said on
14:26
Speaker 3: the pod before and I don't remember where it was,
14:28
Speaker 3: but I grew up in a single income household, and
14:31
Speaker 3: I remember when I got my first job, I went wild,
14:34
Speaker 3: And I mean I was working two Today's a week
14:36
Speaker 3: while week within the breadth of a two two hundred dollars. Yeah. Literally,
14:39
Speaker 3: like when I say wild, I was spending every penny
14:41
Speaker 3: that I had up to approximately two hundred dollars.
14:44
Speaker 4: That's what I was. I mean that's a lot.
14:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, especially at a young age, but I can totally
14:49
Speaker 3: kind of see how people who are going through these
14:52
Speaker 3: kind of adverse experiences want something that they can't have,
14:56
Speaker 3: and then as an adult unlocked in a way, Yeah,
14:59
Speaker 3: you have access to credit products or buy now, pay
15:01
Speaker 3: later products, and it means that you can utilize these
15:04
Speaker 3: platforms to have things that maybe you otherwise wouldn't be
15:07
Speaker 3: able to And I could totally see how that would
15:09
Speaker 3: bear a slippery slope for some people.
15:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting as well. And I mean this is
15:13
Speaker 4: a little bit of a tangent, but when you look
15:15
Speaker 4: into the research behind hoarding, it's really really similar. It's
15:19
Speaker 4: kind of maybe you grew up with a lack of something,
15:22
Speaker 4: and now you just never want to be without, or
15:24
Speaker 4: you feel like these possessions actually hold a lot more
15:27
Speaker 4: value than they actually do. We might do an entire
15:30
Speaker 4: episode on hoarding, because I find it's so interesting and
15:33
Speaker 4: it is so financially crippling that I don't think a
15:36
Speaker 4: lot of people understand the ramifications of it or how
15:40
Speaker 4: it filters down, but it is really interesting.
15:43
Speaker 3: Do spending addictions run in a family?
15:45
Speaker 1: Yeah?
15:45
Speaker 4: Look, researchers have noted that compared to people who don't
15:48
Speaker 4: have shopping addictions, those that do have them are far
15:51
Speaker 4: more likely to have a parent, a sibling, or a
15:53
Speaker 4: child with the same condition or other mental health issues
15:57
Speaker 4: like an anxiety disorder, mood disord, or substance use disorders.
16:02
Speaker 3: Well, how about when compulsive spending is a result of
16:05
Speaker 3: another condition or disorder, so maybe a manic episode or
16:09
Speaker 3: something like that.
16:10
Speaker 4: Yeah, look, that's actually a really important delineation, because what
16:13
Speaker 4: we're talking about today is not things like compulsive buying
16:17
Speaker 4: during a manic episode of bipolar that is driven by
16:19
Speaker 4: euphoria and grandiosity, or with disorders like schizophrenia, where shopping
16:23
Speaker 4: behavior is far more likely to be related to delusional behavior.
16:27
Speaker 4: And we're also not talking about neurodiversity. I've spoken before
16:31
Speaker 4: about impulsivity with things like ADHD and being on the
16:34
Speaker 4: autism spectrum. We're not talking about any of those things today.
16:38
Speaker 4: We're literally only talking about oniomania, which is literally compulsive
16:43
Speaker 4: shopping on its own, not with another disorder.
16:46
Speaker 3: Okay, so what are some signs that your shopping or
16:49
Speaker 3: the shopping of somebody around you might be out of control?
16:52
Speaker 4: All right, Jess, I have unsurprisingly written the list. Are
16:55
Speaker 4: you ready?
16:56
Speaker 2: So?
16:57
Speaker 4: Some common behaviors include the following. Hiding purchase or receipts,
17:01
Speaker 4: or hiding your bank account information, downplaying purchases. For example,
17:06
Speaker 4: you might say, Jess, oh, don't worry, it was on
17:08
Speaker 4: sale or no, honey, I've always had this item in
17:11
Speaker 4: my wardrobe. You've seen it before. Preoccupations of thoughts. So
17:16
Speaker 4: if I had this top, I would feel so much better,
17:19
Speaker 4: or so much happier, or so much smarter. Justifying behavior, so,
17:24
Speaker 4: oh my gosh, no, this is a treat. I absolutely
17:27
Speaker 4: deserve this, replacing one addiction with another. So, for example,
17:31
Speaker 4: people who are abstaining from drinking might actually swap on
17:33
Speaker 4: over to shopping shopping to feel good, keeping up appearances,
17:38
Speaker 4: so the desire to present certain images to others, which
17:41
Speaker 4: we know is not a good thing. Ever, revenge shopping
17:45
Speaker 4: jess is a thing. This is, for example, when you
17:48
Speaker 4: have an argument with your partner and you're like, you
17:50
Speaker 4: know what I'm going to do. I'm going to go
17:51
Speaker 4: buy a whole new outfit and then shopping to please others.
17:55
Speaker 4: So gift giving to have someone like them. So obviously
17:59
Speaker 4: this is outside of normal experiences. It's not like, oh
18:01
Speaker 4: my gosh, it's July. It's just a birthday, we probably
18:03
Speaker 4: should get a present. It's actually more about purchasing things
18:07
Speaker 4: to have other people like you.
18:09
Speaker 3: Reading through this list, I can totally see how shopping
18:12
Speaker 3: addictions could go unchecked or undiagnosed for long periods of
18:17
Speaker 3: time because a number of those things I am guilty
18:19
Speaker 3: of doing, and I know.
18:21
Speaker 4: That's why I'm reading them out. I'm like looking at you, going,
18:24
Speaker 4: this is uncomfortable.
18:25
Speaker 3: And I know for a fact, like saying that out loud,
18:27
Speaker 3: I definitely do not suffer from a shopping addiction. I'm
18:31
Speaker 3: fairly regulated with my money, but you know a lot
18:34
Speaker 3: of these things like oh I deserve a little treat
18:36
Speaker 3: so relatable phrases, right, Yeah, absolutely, And so it makes
18:41
Speaker 3: sense that people would maybe have a hard time categorizing
18:44
Speaker 3: their behaviors as detrimental when they are somewhat normalized and
18:48
Speaker 3: things that exist, I suppose on that sliding scale where
18:50
Speaker 3: maybe you're just giving yourself a little treat once in
18:52
Speaker 3: a while versus giving yourself a little treat every day.
18:56
Speaker 3: And I think that that's a really important delineation as well,
18:59
Speaker 3: because we're not talking about you resonating with one of
19:01
Speaker 3: those things on the list, which Jess you said, yeah,
19:04
Speaker 3: I absolutely do.
19:04
Speaker 4: It's kind of about the culmination of those things being
19:07
Speaker 4: a consistent in your life. So it's not like, oh
19:10
Speaker 4: my gosh, I do deserve a treat because I've worked
19:12
Speaker 4: really hard. Maybe that is really justified. Maybe it's the
19:15
Speaker 4: consistent justification of behavior like you literally do it every
19:19
Speaker 4: day or you do it every week. And then to
19:21
Speaker 4: add to that, you're also downplaying purchases, and you're also
19:24
Speaker 4: hiding things from your partner or your friends or your family,
19:26
Speaker 4: and also you go shopping to feel really good. Does
19:29
Speaker 4: that make sense, Like it's the culmination of all of
19:31
Speaker 4: it together, not just one phrase, which I think, as
19:35
Speaker 4: you said before, makes it so much harder to identify,
19:38
Speaker 4: especially in other people, because you go, oh, well, just
19:40
Speaker 4: just bought that. I don't know her financial circumstance. I
19:43
Speaker 4: don't know if she's abusing her circumstances or just has
19:46
Speaker 4: a really good budget and cash flow system, right, Whereas
19:48
Speaker 4: if you were doing the same thing with alcohol, it
19:50
Speaker 4: would be far more obvious.
19:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I guess it's when all of those little
19:54
Speaker 3: habits or all of those little thoughts start to add
19:56
Speaker 3: up and have a detrimental impact on your life. Also
19:59
Speaker 3: an interesting little I guess sidebar here is that a
20:02
Speaker 3: bit from jess Yeah, A lot of these things on
20:04
Speaker 3: this list are things that advertisers tap into.
20:08
Speaker 4: At it, you're so right, and they reiterate it to.
20:11
Speaker 3: Us as consumers as a way to get us to buy,
20:13
Speaker 3: Like you deserve this little treat, or it's on sale
20:16
Speaker 3: by two.
20:17
Speaker 4: Or hey, go shopping, it'll make you feel good. You
20:19
Speaker 4: should come down to department store XYZ, or buy this
20:23
Speaker 4: new top. It's in fact, I hate that, Jessica. Why
20:26
Speaker 4: did you bring that up?
20:27
Speaker 3: Well, it just goes into that, I guess the fact
20:29
Speaker 3: that advertisers are smart and they really play into the
20:31
Speaker 3: psychology of things without any regard for the impact that
20:34
Speaker 3: it might be having on people.
20:35
Speaker 4: Sneaky sneaky. They know exactly what they're doing, of.
20:38
Speaker 3: Course, But if someone is suffering from a compulsive shopping addiction,
20:42
Speaker 3: how can it be managed or treated? What can we
20:44
Speaker 3: do about it?
20:45
Speaker 4: Look, first things first, I think the most important thing
20:48
Speaker 4: you can do is actually see your GP and get
20:50
Speaker 4: a referral to a psychologist or a counselor that specializes
20:54
Speaker 4: in addictive behavior, because at the end of the day,
20:56
Speaker 4: that's exactly what it is. You could also reach out
20:59
Speaker 4: to our friends at the National Helpline because they have,
21:02
Speaker 4: as I've said a billion times, a plethora of gorgeous
21:05
Speaker 4: resources to help you. They have access to free financial counseling,
21:09
Speaker 4: and to me, that's something that maybe we need to
21:12
Speaker 4: get on top of. Maybe chat to a financial counselor
21:15
Speaker 4: and they'll say, look, here are your issues, here's what's
21:18
Speaker 4: going on. You need to take it a step further
21:20
Speaker 4: and actually go and see another psychologist or another counselor.
21:24
Speaker 4: It's a bit beyond just financial counseling, but I reckon
21:27
Speaker 4: that would be my first step. I also have a
21:29
Speaker 4: few little dot points of some other strategies that could
21:31
Speaker 4: help control spending, and they include the following. So first
21:35
Speaker 4: things first, I would unsubscribe from any emails that trigger
21:38
Speaker 4: the urge to spend. I know my inbox is absolutely flowing,
21:43
Speaker 4: free flowing, if you will, with marketing emails, especially at
21:47
Speaker 4: the moment. I would remove all your credit card details
21:50
Speaker 4: online cough Jessica, RICKI get rid of that from your
21:53
Speaker 4: computer browser. I would keep a shopping diary, so keep
21:57
Speaker 4: track of your purchases. Honestly, I don't know if I'm
22:01
Speaker 4: comfortable doing this myself because I'm so good at being like, oh,
22:04
Speaker 4: I need this dress for work, and then the next
22:06
Speaker 4: week going and looking at another dress. It would actually
22:09
Speaker 4: be quite confronting having a list right there of like, hey, Victoria,
22:12
Speaker 4: you spend one hundred dollars on a dress last week,
22:14
Speaker 4: and I'd be like, oh, that was kind of recent.
22:17
Speaker 4: So that could be a really good idea. I would
22:19
Speaker 4: consider removing devices from the bedroom. I mean, that's a
22:21
Speaker 4: good idea in general, one I'm not ready to do
22:25
Speaker 4: because I do like having a little cheeky TikTok scroll
22:28
Speaker 4: when I said I was going to bed. But if
22:30
Speaker 4: online shopping is happening at night. Maybe that's a really
22:33
Speaker 4: good step to take. I would also Jess avoid going
22:37
Speaker 4: online shopping at night, particularly after having gone out for
22:40
Speaker 4: a few little drinks. I would develop some healthier ways
22:44
Speaker 4: to handle negative emotions, such as practicing mindfulness exercises. There
22:48
Speaker 4: are so many free apps on this My favorite mindfulness
22:51
Speaker 4: app at the moment is actually a free app called
22:53
Speaker 4: Oak literally free, has really good mindfulness activities, free breathing activities,
22:58
Speaker 4: and good rain sounds. We love sound?
23:00
Speaker 3: Do you love rain sounds?
23:01
Speaker 4: And then before going shopping, I would absolutely urge you
23:05
Speaker 4: to make a list before you get there so that
23:07
Speaker 4: we can stick to what we were actually in the
23:09
Speaker 4: shops for.
23:10
Speaker 3: I feel like as well, even if you don't think
23:12
Speaker 3: you're struggling with an addiction, these are some really good
23:14
Speaker 3: habits that you can implement to raining just your spending.
23:17
Speaker 3: For financial reasons, yeah, absolutely help with your budget and
23:20
Speaker 3: cash flow. But if this episode has raised any concerns
23:23
Speaker 3: with you, please talk to a healthcare professional. We'll have
23:25
Speaker 3: a whole heap of links in the show notes to
23:28
Speaker 3: Lifeline and Turning Point and a couple of other really
23:30
Speaker 3: helpful resources as well. And even if you aren't listening
23:33
Speaker 3: to this episode thinking, Wow, I've got a full blown
23:36
Speaker 3: shopping addiction. If you feel like you're a little bit
23:39
Speaker 3: out of control, or if you feel like you're just
23:41
Speaker 3: really prone to using your mind now pay later app
23:44
Speaker 3: a little bit too often, I would really encourage you
23:46
Speaker 3: to talk to someone or make use of these resources,
23:49
Speaker 3: because if you nip it in the bud early, it's
23:52
Speaker 3: a little bit easier to get in front of the
23:53
Speaker 3: boat before things become too detriment.
23:55
Speaker 4: One hundred percent good episode, jess I Reckon.
23:58
Speaker 3: I hope everyone enjoyed. It was really interesting to learn about,
24:00
Speaker 3: and I think if we talk about it more hopefully
24:03
Speaker 3: will help to destigmatize it a little bit.
24:04
Speaker 4: Yeah, and if you take away anything from this episode,
24:07
Speaker 4: I would love to think that we stop using words
24:09
Speaker 4: like shopaholic or phrases like shop till you drop, because
24:12
Speaker 4: they can actually be quite detrimental to normalizing shopping addictions, which,
24:16
Speaker 4: as we've just learned, can actually be really detrimental to
24:19
Speaker 4: your life.
24:20
Speaker 3: Absolutely, But I think that's about all we've got time
24:22
Speaker 3: for today.
24:23
Speaker 4: See you on Friday, guys.
24:24
Speaker 2: Si