Latest / Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor / The ABCD of True Resilience - Part Two

Transcript

The ABCD of True Resilience - Part Two · Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: There's this huge difference in terms of the extent to
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: which this fuels or deplets your resilience and capacity for life.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: And it's not just what is this thing how, not
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: just the sheer perimeters of that thing, but what is
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: this thing supposed to be doing? And so when you
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: find yourself belonging to something that is bigger, that is purposeful,
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: that has a positive intent, that has rules written or
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: otherwise that are supposed to help serve one another, that's
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: the good stuff.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And you can see how powerful this stuff is,
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: you know, when you when you go to environments, particularly
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: when there is a lack of hope. There's a lot
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: being talked about over here in Australia about gangs, right
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: about young gangs, and I know New Zealand has similar problems.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: But you look at the psychology of that. It's generally
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: a bunch of young men with lack of hope who
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: then kind of get pulled together with this tribalism. There's
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: this this sort of shared being a valued member of
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: some sort of a community. And now it's just changed
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: the morals and the behaviors. Uh. And you have all
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: sorts of different tribes and communities but we we want
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: to feel like we're a member of a tribe. I
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: think that's an innate thing because the human brain is
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: fundamentally a social organ You'll know as a psychologist how
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: much of our brain is dedicated to social interactions, to language,
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: to emotion processing, to understanding intent of others and all
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: of this stuff. It's just I think it's so fundamental,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: that whole belonging, but the way that you talk about
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: it as well, not just belonging to a group, but
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: that the whole idea of wet self as well. Can
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: you just expand a little bit on belonging and are
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: there any tools in your toolkit resilience tools structure around
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: belonging that people can use.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think so the starting point for
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: belonging for resilience is effectively understanding the perimeters of just
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: how much you could do if you knew yourself.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: So, the reason why I'm mentioning this is oftentimes when
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: we're thinking about belonging, we're thinking about something we have inherited.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: You describe yourself as a recovering Catholic, right, and oftentimes
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: what'll be fine is letting go of something we have
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: been born with or have inherited over time is one
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: of the hardest things, while resilience. When I'm speaking about
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: belonging to something that is bigger than you and better
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: than you, as well as belonging that starts from within,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: defining the values, the purpose, the sense of identity that
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: you have. This is the stuff of magic, right, I
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: think to build the broader scope. By the way, I
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: got startled a little bit because there is a bunch
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: of loud individuals next door, and clearly they're starting there,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: They're starting the daylight. So apologies, that's all good. So
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: the tools around deepening your own sense of belonging and
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: broadening it. Strangely enough, it starts with awareness. Again, That's
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: why these things are in sequenced awareness, belonging, curiosity, drive, right,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: but really pausing long enough to understand what fuels and
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: drives you, what sustains you, what are the values and
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: principles that you uphold, and how many of these are
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: the echoes of yesterday rather than the thing that matters
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: most for the future.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Oh I like that.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Don't you. Let's can we stay on that for a
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: hot second?
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: Yes? Yeah, because you know.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: When if we are thinking about we're not we are
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: speaking of belonging for resilience. It's not a different beast,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: but it hasn't added little something something than the usual
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: belonging that makes you you'll soft and cozy on the couch, right,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: that's not what we're here for. And so if you're
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: thinking about the kind of belonging that galvanizeres that focuses you,
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: that allows you to fortify your attention so that you
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: can see your way out and thrive, then that is
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: the stuff that is very again intentional and deliberate. So
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: many of us define our sense of belonging, our sense
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: of identity based on heuristic rules of thumb, principles and
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: values that have been inherited, some kind of trickle down effect.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: Seldom do we pose to actually work out where that
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: stuff comes from. We're taking us. So the echo of
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: yesterday is only as interesting as it helps inform our future.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: That's not about rejecting everything you've come with, but about
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: being quite clear and quite open about just how much
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: more you can grow and just how much more you
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: can give.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: And those echoes of yesterday, some of them will be useful.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: Some of them will have been useful at some stage
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: in your life. But are no longer serving you well,
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: nigh right, And so it's a bit of an ongoing process.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: This thing isn't it?
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Yes, it is, and but I've got it on a
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: I think it can confidently say it is a It
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: is a good challenge because you see a kind of
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: a liken it to traveling with a backpack full of
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: howf open cans of beans? You don't need, you know
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: what I mean? You don't need that burden past a
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: certain point. And I think the ability to boss get
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: your lessons learned, then continue is essential for anyone who
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: considers themselves wanting to be resilient and to be driving
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: in life.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: Love what you said. So you know the piece about
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: what has served you, what no longer does? And how
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: do you have to enrich your repertu our for life?
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: You understanding of it in order to be purposeful, to
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: be good, to be meaning, to grow. It does require
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: pausing for a hot second, checking yourself, and then continuing.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: So many of the people and teams that I work
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: with are obstracted by that white noise of unchecked stuff.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: Right, the white noise, the white noise can be all consuming.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: And let's talk about curiosity. Curiosity killed the cat. Satisfaction
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: brought it back, right have you heard of that term?
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: Curiosity killed the cat? That satisfaction brought it back. But curiosity,
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: see if your life absolutely taught us through.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: That my favorite thing. Curiosity is absolutely my favorite thing,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: and if you can please have more room for it,
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: then we will be all very happy. So, yes, curiosity
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: did save our life because it allowed us to look
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: at what appeared to be a fixed situation from different angles,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: including the intention of our tours. And I what hazard
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: A guess that if you can find space for curiosity
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: in the acute and it has served us right, then
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: you should make truckloads of room for it anyway you look.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: So, in the context of resilience, I was surprised to
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: see that when I started researching it, resilience, curiosity didn't
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: seem to feature with it. That's some years ago. Now
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: now we know it's an absolute treasure, right, But effectively,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: curiosity is one of those things that you can't be
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: curious and freaked out at the same time, right, interesting, Yeah, Yeah,
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: It's one of those things that you know, if you
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: allow yourself the scope for it, the space for it, it
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: doesn't take much to practice that muscle. It's a micro movement, right,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: We're wired for it. What it does is that it
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: allows you to see what you previously thought was unsurmountable
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: or overwhelming. It's just a curious space to explore. And
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: when you get yourself look around the corner just long enough,
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: you get to see many different ways in which you
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: can respond rather than react. Right, it's a beauty. All
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: it takes is asking yourself a hot question here in
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: the air, a little bit more than you have previously done.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Curiosity is start with this thing that you mentioned earlier,
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: right from conduct, have to capture one one thousand, two,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: one thousand and three, one thousand, taking a breath before
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: you get yourself in the reaction mode, allowing more of
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: the inputs of your context to influence you read of
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: a situation, to choose whether you want to engage with
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: it or not, and to actually begin to experiment with
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: different ways of taking your predicament and with curiosity.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: Is it important to be curious about yourself and your
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: own behaviors and your emotions? Is that helpful from a
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: resilience perspective?
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: I think so, I think so, and I'm saying it
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: with caution because there is a risk of us becoming
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: indulgent looking to find the answer within, whereas the answer
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: is in interaction.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: I find a paralysis by analysis, right. And this is
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: where talk, some talk therapist drive me mad, where people
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: just go and talk about their issues and there's no
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: action associated with it.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's not. It's not a very healthy thing,
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: is it.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: Now? God Jesus that you can just you can go
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: down so many rabbit holes in your own head. Uh.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: And I think think some talk therapist can actually make
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: it worse, particularly if there's no action that's aligned with
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: purpose and values. Right, all the stuff that you talk about.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: That's it. That's it. There is no testing it, there's
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: no feedback loop.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: So, but an element of being curious about yourself is essential.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: And I think let's tempt ourselves into this place because
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: if we are not what we assuming is that I emotion,
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: the one we get locked into reaction, the read or
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: the label we picked up about a situation is all
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: the ris So occasionally going hey, wait hot a second,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: what is this thing? What is this? What is this
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: story I'm telling myself? I think it's really really helpful
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: because if we get ourselves in the state of actually
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: recognizing that conclusions, the conclusions we often draw about things
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: are just the habitual reaction rather than a deliberate response.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: This place is better, right, So, yes, wondering where your
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: responses come from, what purpose they serve, and whether they
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: serve you is essential. Getting stuck in it not so much.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, absolutely. And there's another thing about curiosity that
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: I think is really important because for me, being curious
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: not just about yourself in real the whole resilience contacts.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: But if we broaden it a little bit, just being
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: curious about the world I think is hugely important because
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: I think curiosity is a prerequisite for AWE. And there's
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: so much really cold shit involved in AWE. Then the
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: experience of awe, and how then that can flow on
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: to gratitude. So I like to talk about those three
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: things as close cousins. Curiosity about the word, about yourself,
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: about other people, and that then triggers AWE. Right, if
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: you're not curious about life, then you wouldn't be so
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: blown away by it. Right. I start off every day
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: by going to myself one in four hundred trillion, get
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: the fuck up. And do stuff, right, That's what scientists reckon,
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: are our odds of having been born. But if you're
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: not curious about that in the first place, and it's
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: hard to be awe inspired just with everyday life, the
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: stuff that's going on. And then if you have real awe,
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: it is so friggin hard not to be genuinely grateful
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: about stuff. And I think that's a perspective shifter that
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: a lot of people miss out when they are just
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: passive consumers of life being entertained on friggin's screens. Right,
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: what's your thoughts on all of that?
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: I just I absolutely love all of that. You're speaking
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: of awe, and you know what instantly makes me. It
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: makes me concerned that so many of us are accustomed
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: to looking for it elsewhere, you know, like it's a coombastic,
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: super colorful version of life. But it is abundant and
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: available virtually every way you look down the hill from
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: my farm. I was there yesterday with my son and
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: one of his besties, and they were in awe. A
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: small little you know, a leaf that hangs off a
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: spider web over a little river that only forms when
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: we have abundant rain out here, right, the bottom of
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: the very small little thing, and you could see them
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: mesmerized for the longest of time, studying this process of
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: how have things occurred here? Wondering whether they're still in
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: a stage of wondering whether you know elves and little
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: creatures are real? Right? Yes, yes, stories about that stuff?
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Now here's your scare folding of curiosity right, not is
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: something that astonishes you in that moment, begin to appreciate
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: how the subtleties of it, all the subcomponents of it
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: that have to travel together to form in this thing
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: that you are observing and witnessing at the moment exists. Yes,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: that is astonishing, right, Whereas you know the alternative of
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: that is just racing to the mall with you muddy boots,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: not having noticed any of that stuff at all, looking
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: for some kind of gratification loop.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: That's put your head and your freaking phone on the way.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's absurd, right, It's just insane. And when
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: you like these sorts of moments, give you space, give
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: you time, Suddenly time stretches. You know, thirty minutes walk
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: down a hill becomes an hour of exploration and ideas remarkable.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: Thing absolutely that you mention in your books often that
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: I read that I absolutely love things that matter take effort.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: What do you mean by that?
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: This is part of the wider, unapologetic script for life, right,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: And so all of the things that we should be
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: waking up for that galvanize us, that center us, that
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: ground us, that give us a sense of momentum, are
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: the sorts of things we have chosen, right, or the
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: sorts of things that we feel committed to. And so
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: I think things that matter take effort is a little
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: heuristic I have for myself to allow myself never to
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: take the sorts of things that matter for granted, right,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: to invest what I've got in pursuing those goals and
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: to grow them bigger, louder, more meaningful. You know it.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: Also it also challenges us to pause when we catch
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: ourselves in this gratification cycle of life. That's not what
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: the good stuff is about, right, because that's the longer
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: journey and experiencing yourself being able to be your best
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: version as you traversed some of the gnarliest turns of life.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's about being in the contest. Yeah, that's it. Yeah,
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: And you also talk about and this one got me
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: a procrastination story. So what is a procrastination story? How
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: do people do it? Why is it useful to do
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: this little exercise?
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Tell me, tell me, tell me more. I forgotten that,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: forgotten that? But why does that excite you?
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Well, no, no, that didn't excite me.
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: It needled me because because I I can be guilty
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: of procrastination and I've I've worked out why, right, And well,
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: actually it was my wife who worked out why.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: And I think it is because of my time in
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: the military. I did helicopter search and rescue, I did
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: anti submony warfare, and it was always better, right it was.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: It was full on and and I think I became
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: an adrenaline junkie out of it. So I tend to
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: wait until there's a fucking looming disaster before I get
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: interested in doing stuff, and then I get excited and
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: completely dialed in. So it was just interesting for me
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: that procrastination story and what's behind it because I unpacked
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: and it was actually it was it was a mete
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: of mine who was my general manager at the time,
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: a guy called Maya big Maori dude, And we're going
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: to talk about Maris at the end. And he was
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: my general manager. I remember him saying to me, Paul,
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: it's clear to me that every time there's a crisis,
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: you get excited and that's when you get switched on.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: But others don't just remember that, and he's true, It
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: was absolutely true, And so I will actually procrastinate so
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: that I create enough of a crisis to get interested
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: to do the work.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: So thank you so much for sharing this. And I'm
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: sure a bunch of your audience would absolutely see themselves
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: in that this is an epic example of awareness, right,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: whether you were conditioned like that through your military service
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: or whether you were innateve like that.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I think it's probably a bit of both, right,
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: because that's why I got drawn into what I did,
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: and then it accentuated it.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: I don't want to give any exits out of responsibility
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: or self but like, think about this is a this
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: is an epic evolutionary setting, right, Like why waste energy
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: for something that is non critical? Like who's going to die?
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: You know? Be it that I'm about to go hunt
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: and eat? Like what what am I wasting my resources for?
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: But we don't let ourselves off the hook, even if
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: we are wire that way, And so the job to
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: be done then is to discover what it is that
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: galvanizes you. You don't have to be in a state
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: of constant burno the whole time. Obviously we don't want
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: to do any of that stuff. But I'm concerned about
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: the scripts for life that many of us choose will
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: have to apply to all of us, disregarding how different
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: we all are. Right, and so, for example, for some
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: of us, that procrastination story is procrastinating on the bigger
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: challenge that we should be focusing our attention on, and
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: instead seeing ourselves spilling our attention and energy over all
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: sorts of small stuff that nobody cares about, including ourselves. Yes,
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: I won't know what version of procrastination is scarier, and
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: there are plenty of numbers between zero and one, but
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: I just want to double click on that. Correct me
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: if I've gone all crazy on it. But one version
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: of procrastination in life is the one that kind of
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: waits until things have become totally disaster like to galvanize
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: and include us. There you are walking in saving us all.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: The second one is procrastinating on the big important stuff
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: by distracting ourselves with a whole heap of small stuff.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, absolutely, So in.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: Between all of these things exist an opportunity for us
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: to pause and appreciate that we have plenty of choice
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: in some instances, perhaps too much of it. But in
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: that space we have to become a little bit more intentional. Right, So,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: finding your medicine, understanding how your system operates, you know,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: what is it that it requires. Does it require peace
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: and calm in order to be methodical, or does it
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: require a little bit more of a strain in order
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: to be galvanized and focused. We're all unique and different.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Some of these things might take us to a bit
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: of a nasty spike. We have to work on. It's
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: just a gremlin. We have conversation with it, we sel
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: for it, and we continue. But I, yeah, I find
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: that really interesting, those those domains of procrastination and what
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: it actually might look like in terms of outcomes.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: I love that you said and that something along the
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: lines of you're not going to absolve you of the
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: responsibility yourself off because it's interesting. Right, So I have
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: worked out why I procrastinate, and I could go, oh,
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: well that's just me and accept how I am, which
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: is not the right answer, right, It's to understand it
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: for the purpose of moving forward and actually betterment. And
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: I actually think if we again come to broader psychology,
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of mental health labels are absolving
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: people of responsibility for taking action, right, And I'm not
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: here incorporating people who have severe mental illness. I'm talking
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: about the people that have the mild anxiety or mild
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: depression that they kind of hook on to that label
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: and it's my anxiety or it's my depression, and it
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: becomes an excuse not to move forwards, are not to
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: do the work. And so I love that you said
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: about not letting absorbing yourself with responsibility, because I think
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: that's dangerous. Right if we just become curious and go, oh,
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: this is just me, this is how I am. This
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: is why I think self acceptance is risky. Right. It's
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: a continuum, isn't it.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: Did you thank you for doing this for me? Did
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: you see me biting my tongue trying not to tach labels?
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: I don't like them because I think they're wildly limiting
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: unless we do something with them, right, I'm sure that
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: better understand ourselves and then build up a way forward
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: that is far more meaningful and agile than we could
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: have contemplated in the absence of them. But I fully agree,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: I see it. Those labels. They're almost a caging device.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: Do you know, love a caging device.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: I just constantly bite my tongue. I catch myself constantly
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: looking those that just it's a little bit, it's a
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: little bit disconcerting. Don't know whether we found ourselves in
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: a place where we understand what might take away from us,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: but have been slow to offer us. So then what
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? So I am extremely
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: keen for us to starting to to start to unleash
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: ourselves from some of these assumptions, those ways out of life,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: because I don't know whether they serve us in any way,
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: you know, anyway in treapments. Labels can be intrepments unless yes, yeah,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: I really love that. So I think let's go ahead
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: and start putting commas after labels so that we can
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: start exploring I love commas.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: That's that's really important because and and this is I
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: think where psychology has gone wrong, And it's that that
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: there is a risk that the whole psychology industry is
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: actually minting, just like a central bank mints money, and
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: and and it's it's well intentioned, right, but I think
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: we've just gone to a crazy level where there's a
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: label for this and a label for that and a
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: label for the other thing. And as you say, there's
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: no comma or the comma is antake this medication, which
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: is just is a part like that's another rabbit hole
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: that we probably shouldn't go down. But I love your
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: idea of those labels need a comma after them, and
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: and that brings us nicely into your fourth one. And
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: and I hope our listeners can see the sequential nature
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: of this because from the curiosity, going back to belonging,
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: going back to awareness, then let's all about drive because
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: for me, this is this is the biggie. Right. So
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: firstly I would question I have for you is what's
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: the difference between drive and motivation?
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: Ah? Right? So okay, can I start with my favorite heuristic,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: which is purpose precedes drive?
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: So I love that and your it's very cool.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I absolutely love it. Right, And so again in
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: that is the answer of the motivation versus drive. I
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: just don't want to make it simple a simple answer, right,
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: because it's a biggie. The vast majority of us run
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: around trying to find a reason of trying to find
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: ourselves in a state of energized neuroticism so we can
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: achieve the things we don't want to achieve, Which is
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: why I'm I'm hesitant to speak about this motivation versus
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: drive thing, right, because we are putting the card before
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: the horse or whatever the saying is that basically suggests
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: we're putting things in the wrong order over and over
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: and over again. So purpose precedes drive is the easiest
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: and most impactful heuristic I've come upon. And I attribute
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: this to my dear, dear friend Sam, who was a
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: mentor in THEESS and an extraordinary, extraordinary wise man. So anyway,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: the point of this is, unless we know and are
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: assigned to our sense of purpose, the probability of us
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: being a saying human that is also driven is zilch
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: to none. And I think we oftentimes become wildly indulgent
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: expecting that we are going to feel a sense of
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: motivation and drive towards something that we don't understand, don't
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: align with, or don't inspire us. Doesn't inspire us, right,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: So that's the starting point and the easiest conclusion. There
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: is bit clear on where it is that you are heading.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Know who you are, not this person standing there holding
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: the ground beneath your feet, but more importantly, bit clear
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: on what it is that this journey is about for you.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: So, I think so many of us just are in
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: the state of reactivity or the daily grind, to the
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: point where we haven't caught ourselves in any way aligned
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: with what it is that we do. Right, So, purpose
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: procease drive is incredibly important. Motivation seems to follow when
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: we have discovered that, Right, It's a no brainer. It's
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: a no brainer when you get there. It's it's it's
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: not a thing to find first before you realize what
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: you do with it. It goes the other way.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a similar ish heuristic. Motivation follows action,
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: not the other way around. Right, And but the action
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: bit is linked to your purpose and values. And there's
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: so many people who are out there waiting for the
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: motivation fairy to come along and give them a dollop
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: of motivation to be motivated around their health or their
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: their life, or or their work or whatever it may be.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: And and and this is the thing you want, the
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: you want the motivation ferry, start freaking acting towards a
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: meaningful goal that's aligned with your purpose and values. Yes,
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: there's where the motivation ferry lives under that rock.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Why did no one read that book? Now? That was
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: not written at the start of humanity? Do you know
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: what I mean? That thing about it just it has
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: to follow You're absolutely right. It follows action.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: And there's now a whole host of neuroscience experiments that
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: shows that when you're bringing perceives that you're in forwards
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: motion towards a valued gold, that's when it releases dopamine. Beautiful,
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: and that's what propels you to do further stuff. So
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: tell us for people who are listening, going okay, so
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: they're talking a lot about purpose and values. This this
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: continually comes up. Are there any tools that you have
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: or little exercises that people can do if they're unclear
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: about this? Because often in workshops, you know, I'll ask
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: an audience, you know, when we're talking about purpose, So
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: who here would have a clear sense of meaning and
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: purpose in their life? Typically I'll get five to ten
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: percent hands going up, and then there'll be a chunk
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: of people. I'll ask, well, who has thought about this
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: and has wrestled with it? And you get the majority
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: of the audience and then I'm like, who else is going,
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: what the fuck are you talking about? Dude? Right? And
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: a few hands go up laughingly. So some people are
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: completely rudderless in life. Some people the rudder is kind
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: of weaving but not fixed. So how do you help
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: people to discover what their purpose and values are?
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: So? Interestingly, I mean, I really want you to at
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: some point come back to the point that you made
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: earlier about dopament, because I think it's an incredibly important
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: line that we have to underline for absolutely everyone that listens. Right, Yeah,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: the whole thing about how is your how is our
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: system designed? And why is our system designed in such
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: a way that the good stuff follows action, it doesn't
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: proceed it. You really have to, I think, make a
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: small little chunk of this conversation with you on that alone.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: If you don't, let's stay on that and then we'll
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: move to it. Yes.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So the first thing that I wanted to suggest this,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: when we are looking for purpose and values, we oftentimes
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: are deceiving ourselves that it's some sort of cerebel exercise, right,
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: that it's something we need to intellectualize. There is an
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: element of that. But it doesn't happen within and it
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: doesn't happen in spite of the world outside of us.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: I've come to realize, and I'm sure it exists widely
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: in the literature, that it happens in living. And so
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: what I mean by that, we've got simple formulas, right,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: There are tools in my book, There are tools everywhere around.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: How would you define your purpose? The simple reference we've
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: all seen is that three circle, you know, kind of
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: model right where you overlay your ability with your passion
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: and opportunity. And in that little perfect overlad is purpose.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: But what it does is that this is just the
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: starting point to it, right. The job to be done
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: is to step into it, to test it and to
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: see how you can grow it. I whan you cat
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: yourself on that wave feeling fulfilled, feeling satisfied, feeling equally
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: challenged and supported by your ability bio context as well
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: as the opportunities ahead of you, there is your purpose.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: So the short of it is, when you're talking about purpose,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: which is the sort of label you're going to be
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: going by with life ahead of you, the easiest thing
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: to do is to start considering what's your passion first
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: and foremost, what inspires what fuels you? Equally, what keeps
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: you up at night? Right? That is your really clear
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: sense of what are the sorts of things that resonate.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: We keep thinking that purpose, that same purpose we were
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: born with, is going to stay with us for life.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: In some instances, maybe live life well, hopefully at the
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: very least expense. It deepens, it broadens even better, It
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: might becomes something else, It might become multiple different things.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: Right faces the stages of life challenges to show up
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: a little differently. I feel the time when we have
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: lost our sense of purpose is when we have caught
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: ourselves in an unhealthy inertia. Right, we just jumped on
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: that wheel and we didn't realize the turning point had
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: missed us. So shorthand passion, What fuels, what drives, what
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: sustains you? Be aware these are indulgent exercises. The biggest
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: part of the world doesn't appear to have the time
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: or the opportunity to discuss these sorts of things. Yeah,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: it finds you when you walk out the door when
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: you wake up in the morning.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely absolutely. I think one other
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: question I like to get people to think about as
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: well as the passion stuff, which I think is critical
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: is what if it was taken away from you, would
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: create a massive hole or vacuum in your life. I
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: think that can also help to guide people. And I
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: like to get people to do a little exercise what
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: I call a tombstone statement, which is what would you
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: like to be written on your tombstone? That would and
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: I put some guardrails on this, that would sum up
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: your life, how you want to be remembered and your
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: contribution to society. All right, So mine and I often
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: talk about this in workshops, is military man turned educator
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: to help others be better versions of themselves. But I
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: said to people that this is just about how you
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: can make a little difference in your little corner of
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: the universe. Right, It's not about having a multimillion dollar
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: startup and an orphanage in Nepal. I think Seneca talked
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: about is everybody's responsibility to be of value to humanity. Beautiful,
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: and that kind of I think is helpful for people
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: to think not just about me, but how I fit
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: into the world and how I can be a useful
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: member of a tribe. I keep coming back to that
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: word usefulness, because to be a functioning member of a tribe,
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: you've got to be useful to others, not just to yourself,
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: but to others.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: This means the world, you know, talking about tombstones, right
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: and purpose one of the some time back we were
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: hopefully it doesn't sound too that, but we were reflecting
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: on how many of the tombstones, if you cast your
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: eye over, it would read much the same, you know,
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: loving father, loving parent, whatever, and all that kind of stuff.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: And that's fine, that's fantastic. Right, you have followed some
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: version of a script. You have done well sticking to it.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: If we are helping support individuals so that they are
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: better contributors, more worthy humans, then maybe the job to
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: be done is to be more explicit around how do
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: you arrive at that place? Do you know what I mean?
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: And if you were to be you know, a good human,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: to be someone who is serving those beyond yourself better,
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: what is the unique way in which you go about
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: doing that? Do you know what I mean?
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Yes? And which are if I'm if I'm following you correctly,
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: they are behaviorally based values. Right, how do you how
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: do you actually get there? Right? It's that whole then
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: in the art of motorcycle maintenance. I don't if you've
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: ever read that book by Robert Persing the line in
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: that book that's stuck in my head as a nineteen
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: year old. He was talking about everybody traveling up the
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: mountain and wanting to get to the peak, and he
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: said that sometimes it's better to travel than to get there, right,
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: And that whole part about being fully engaged in the process. Right,
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: That's a that's a critical part of heartiness, the close
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: cousin to resilience that I talked about, but also very
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: important in your concept of resilience. So tell me this,
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: h what commonality So you've worked with the sas you're
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: also an org psyche and you work with organizations a lot.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: What do you notice similarities and differences when it comes
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: to the topic of resilience between the essays and in
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: the bordroom marine corporations.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Do you know, as much as these environments appear to
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: feel very different on the kind of outset, they're much
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: the same when it comes to driving and pig performance
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: and capacity for contribution. And I love nothing more. I
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: get to see these things globally and cross contextually. So
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: you know, from corporate space, yesdessays and extreme military context,
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: but also athletes and not for profits in between. And
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: when I get to see that same model so opariety,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: that same kind of principle emerging action is when individuals
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: in this collective are very clear on who it is
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: that is standing there, holding the ground beneath the feat
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: and not precisely how they're going to use those capabilities
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: to serve their mission, which in and of itself actually
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: affords for awareness, belonging, curiosity, and drive. What I mean
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: by that is the best context that I've operated in,
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: and the best pivots we have made have been because
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: we are working under a sheared understanding of what matters most.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: We understand who it is that we are, and we
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: go after that goal, finding thousand workabouts along the way
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: to achieve it. That's the beauty of it. And so
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: the parallels are much the same when you look at
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: it from this perspective, right being, redients are exactly the same.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: You have really clear compelling mission, You have an understanding
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: of everyone who is standing there unapologetically. The way in
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: which they assume this position isn't to follow a script,
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: but to do some version of service with their capability
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: to that cheered purpose and the capacity for curiosity, which
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: allows us to then look beyond the obvious break silos
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: and think about how we could do things even better.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: That unrelenting pursuit of excellence that happens because they understand
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: who they are, they know those around them in the context.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: They have profound sense of purpose within that is evolving
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: as they engage with the challenge, and then the result emerges.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: And I love nothing more than seeing these parallels over
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: and over and over again. I don't show up with
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: an ABCD script, you know. I wait to see what
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: the context needs, and in retrospect it always fits that
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: cadence for life, you know.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: And I think a little bit that you said about
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: finding the worker rends in life, I would add to
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: that being fully engaged in the context of finding the
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: worker rends in life, because that's where the beauty lies
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: for me, is he's actually getting fully immersed and engaged
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: in the ship as well as the lovely stuff and
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: finding that that meaning in suffering and drive, I think
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: is just so critical with all of this.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: I couldn't agree with you more. I couldn't agree with
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: you more. It's in the contrasts.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: Right, do you know the one thing that I have noticed,
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: and this will this will will go to my last
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: question is because I've worked with military, done some of
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: my studies with him with my pH d, I've also
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: worked a lot with corporates and I've worked with elite athletes,
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: I find that there's one distinction. And I'm generalizing here,
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: but if you look at I'll take military and athletes
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: on one side and corporations on the other. The difference
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: when it comes to resilience is around focus on the
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: bodily stuff that in the essays the old thing. If
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: you're not eating, if you're not on watch or are engaged,
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: you should be eating or sleeping. Right. Athletes talk about recovery,
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: whereas for for me, a lot of corporates, their recovery
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: is coming home with Friday night, exhausted with putting a
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: feed up and a bottle of wine and watching Netflix.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: And I say to them, that's not recovery, that's relaxation.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: They are. It's very different gravy. And so my last
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: question then is how important is the focus on the physiology.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: I like to talk about psychophysiological resilience or hardiness. Where
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: does a physiology come into this, and and and how
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: do you stop drive turning into burnout?
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm, thank you for taking usdiah And and do
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: you know what uh? Earlier on when I was reflecting
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: on similarities, I'm only speaking of pig performing individuals and
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: teams here, right, I think great handling stuff, pushing yourself
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: to just a hard beat before you are in a
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: state of burnout is wildly responsible thing if we are
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: after good outcomes, right, that stuff you just highlighted, the
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: baseline recovery is a non negotiable stuff. So many of
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: us are kidding ourselves that we can trick the system.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: It doesn't work like that. So do you know the
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: really confronting thing I'm trying to I'm trying to not
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: waste a minute trying to convince individuals who already know
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: how important this stuff is, of its importance, because no,
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: there is no sign on the wall or anyway in
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: our environment that doesn't tell us recovery is absolutely critical.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: Netflix and a bottle of wine. I don't even know
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: if it amounts to relaxation. It's probably some version of avoidance.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: If we are there, perhaps we should sneak in a
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: run beforehand. Or some sort of weightlifting exercise or something dynamic,
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: at least to get the system moving, because we won't
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: be reaching a state of relaxation when we are in
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: a state of avoidance. Right, too many words to say.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: We know that it's not negotiable. There are no shortcuts
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: in the game of life. Those things need to be
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: a part of the composition in order for us to
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: be able to think effectively. I cannot tell you right
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: so because I work in venture. Right so, some of
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: the most exceptional and challenging individuals and teams I worked
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: with are in venture. They're not in the essays, and
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: the reason for it is that their mission stays on
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: for eighteen months. We might think it's not life and death,
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: but for them it feels like it is. Right, it's
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: a hugely challenging thing. It concerns the identity and a
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: lifetime of work. So if you are in a state
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: of law and you are kind of trekking along and
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: you're about to have your most brilliant idea, these moments
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: are precious. They need to be contained. We need to
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: allow ourselves to be there. We can't be in some
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: version of rigidity that tells us, oh, look, it's eight o'clock.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: Stop thinking right now, right, But it's not designed for
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: us to be in that state forul prolonged periods of time.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: I'm concerned that so many of us are deceiving ourselves
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: to think that maybe tomorrow will be a better day
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: when we can integrate those basics. Maybe tomorrow never comes,
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: you know, right now, it's today. I want us to
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: tempt ourselves in these things, even if it takes ten
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: minutes here and there. We all know that the only
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: way to prove the difference that it makes is by
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: experiencing it. So anyway, recovery critical and actually even before
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: we get there, building a really strong baseline so that
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: recovery is something that happens in life as opposed to
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: an exception to it.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: Yes. Yeah, and if you think that you're going to
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: your health when you retire, you are completely and utterly bonkers,
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: because there are there are so many corporates that I
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: know that that is their mindset that I'm just going
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: to work, work, work, work, and then when I retire,
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: I'll switch over and start looking after my body. The
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: horse is going to have bolted by then. But so look,
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: they we do unfortunately need to wind this up. This
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: has been an absolute tour of force on resilience. There's
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: so there's so many bits that I've written down as
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: little markers that that that could be a great little
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: grab for social media, but that the I love the
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: structure that you've put behind it through not just academic research,
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: but practical living and observation of others. Where can people
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: go to find out more about you, to buy your book,
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: to book you for corporate talks and what other services
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: do you offer for people who've been listening to this
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: and go on, I need my little dose of Alia Bodyeleva. Sorry,
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: do you know what's interesting?
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: I've never promoted myself. I don't have a website, and
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: yet people find me, which is so gay.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: You don't have a website.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't have a website. I haven't
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: promoted myself. Good news though I kind of. I am
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: on LinkedIn, and I do have colleagues of mind that
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: monitor that, and I'm genuinely quite keen to help a
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: worthy mission. So the kinds of environments are work in
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: a bit of a figure rate. So some of them
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: were individuals, some of them are teams, some of who
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: have a lot, some of them not so much. Some
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: of the environments are working I pay to be a
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: part of and so it's an interesting piece that. Yeah.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: But anyway, I am on LinkedIn. I can be fined
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: found there. I do have an amazing agent. It's part
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: of Between two Beers b to be Speakers.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: Yes, we can find you in book you as a
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: speaker between two Beers. Did you say, oh they are
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: speaking bureau over in New Zealand they are. Yes, I've
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: heard of these guys. Okay, So there's no websites. There's
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: no website. However, you can go to the Resilience Toolkit
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: on any good bookstore. But also people presumably can just
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: connect with you. Well actually that's where I found you,
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: was on LinkedIn and through a connection with a young
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Northern irishman across the water, young Games, who we both
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: know and so look, this has been awesome. So people
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: can for corporations if they want to book you, just
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: go to Between two Beers and then they'll be able
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: to book you to come in and talk to their organization,
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: because God, people need you and their organizations. But also
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: they can reach out to you separately on LinkedIn.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: Beautiful yes please and of.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: Course, if you're watching this and this is the book
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: that you're after. If you're not watching, it's called The
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: Resilience Toolkit, A proven four step process to unlock your
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: true potential by doctor Alia Jaalova.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: Nice correct, nicely, don Thank you so much.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: Thank you. This has been absolutely awesome. Keep doing what
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: you're doing, as I'm sure you will.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: Thank you so so much,