Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #168 Emotional Intelligence with Marc Brackett

Transcript

#168 Emotional Intelligence with Marc Brackett · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's really important I think for parents to know is
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: that your kid did not trigger you. You constructed that
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: trigger right, because five people may watch that kid behave
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: like Uncle Marvin wasn't triggered. Why are you triggering, Daddy?
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: That's an important piece for parents to understand.
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  Speaker 2: It's the Happy Families podcast.
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  Speaker 3: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just
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  Speaker 3: wants answers?
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Now Gooday.
• 0:24
  Speaker 4: This is doctor Justin Colson, the author of six books
• 0:26
  Speaker 4: about raising happy families, joined as always with my wife
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  Speaker 4: and co host missus Happy Families, Kylie, the parents of
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  Speaker 4: six daughters, and today a special returning guest.
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  Speaker 2: Well.
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  Speaker 3: A few weeks ago we had Mark Brackett, an emotion
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  Speaker 3: scientist on to talk about this concept of emotional intelligence.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, the author of Permission to Feel.
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  Speaker 3: And he was kind enough to say that he'd come back.
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  Speaker 1: I can't tell you how many dads come up to
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  Speaker 1: me after I give my presentations and they say.
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  Speaker 5: Things like, oh, my goodness, that you are so vulnerable.
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  Speaker 1: You shared about your abuse and you're bullying and maybe
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  Speaker 1: this something to this, you know, asking questions.
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  Speaker 4: If you miss that podcast, make sure that you go
• 1:04
  Speaker 4: back and have listened to Mark's store it's really extraordinary
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: to look at where he's come from and what he
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  Speaker 4: does today. I loved that conversation. A quick reminder about
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  Speaker 4: who Mark is if you've missed it. Mark is the
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  Speaker 4: director of the Yale Center for Emotional Intelligence. He's also
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  Speaker 4: a professor in the Child Study Center of Yale University.
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  Speaker 2: He's also the lead developer of.
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  Speaker 4: An educational program called RULER, which is an evidence based
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  Speaker 4: approach to social and emotional learning. It's been adopted by
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  Speaker 4: thousands of schools around the world.
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  Speaker 3: So most of us have heard of this concept of
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  Speaker 3: emotional intelligence, but I wonder how many of us actually
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  Speaker 3: really understand what it means. So for someone like me, Mark,
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  Speaker 3: can you give me a really simple and concise definition
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  Speaker 3: of what emotional intelligence is.
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  Speaker 1: It's defined as we call it ruler. It's an acronym
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  Speaker 1: recognizing emotions and self and others. So being self aware
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  Speaker 1: and socially aware of how people are feeling, how you're feeling,
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  Speaker 1: understanding the causes and the consequences of feelings. So why
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  Speaker 1: am I angry versus disappointed? What's the difference? Am my
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  Speaker 1: stress throughund my overwhelmed? Why does it matter? That leads
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  Speaker 1: to labeling feelings. Well, if I'm angry, well is it
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  Speaker 1: a little bit of anger or a lot of anger?
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  Speaker 1: Am I enraged? Or am I peeved? Or am I irritated?
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  Speaker 1: Am I anxious? Or am I just uneasy? So the R,
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  Speaker 1: the you and the L a ruler or as you
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  Speaker 1: say in Australia.
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  Speaker 5: Rule lah.
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  Speaker 1: Is about self. It's about really understanding your experience of emotion.
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  Speaker 1: The E in the R A ruler is about what
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  Speaker 1: we do with those feelings. So the E is expressing emotion,
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  Speaker 1: knowing how and when to express feelings with different people
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  Speaker 1: across context, and understand the cultural nuance of expression. Right
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  Speaker 1: eye contact doesn't mean the same everywhere. Directness is not
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  Speaker 1: the right thing. It's maybe one way one culture. And
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  Speaker 1: then regulating emotions the strategy that we use to both
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  Speaker 1: manage our own feelings but help other people to manage theirs.
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  Speaker 4: Okay, great, So very brief summary. Understanding how my emotions
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  Speaker 4: are working. You mentioned triggers before. We'll come back to
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  Speaker 4: that a little bit later. But also being socially aware
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  Speaker 4: enough to see how people are feeling, and then being
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  Speaker 4: able to regulate my emotions and another person's emotions in
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  Speaker 4: a way or help them to regulate this in a
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  Speaker 4: way that we can actually get along well and work
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  Speaker 4: towards our objectives in a positive.
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  Speaker 5: Way, or just to chieve your own goals.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, great, okay you.
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  Speaker 4: I think this is a really interesting quiz that I
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  Speaker 4: just want to pick up on you. You talked about being
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  Speaker 4: able to distinguish between emotions when you were describing what
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  Speaker 4: emotional intelligence is, and I jotted down as you said it.
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  Speaker 4: You said, knowing the difference between being angry and being disappointed.
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  Speaker 4: Anger is a secondary emotion, right, Anger comes from somewhere else,
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  Speaker 4: It comes from another emotion. Often, disappointment might lead to
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  Speaker 4: anger because a parent's not able to respond appropriately and
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  Speaker 4: effectively to their own disappointment. But I'm curious just just
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  Speaker 4: to disentangle those two emotions, how do you how do
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  Speaker 4: you differentiate between anger and disappointment?
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  Speaker 1: So they're different completely in many ways, because one is
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  Speaker 1: just an unman expectation, right, everything's legit. Like let's say
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  Speaker 1: it's a parent in their kid. It's like we're going
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  Speaker 1: to go to the mall, or we're going to go
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  Speaker 1: visit a friend, but that you get a flat tire
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  Speaker 1: and the mom or dad is just like saying honey,
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  Speaker 1: you know, gosh, we really wanted to go to the mall.
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  Speaker 1: Were going to bring it to your friend's house, but
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  Speaker 1: we got a flat tire, and it's just there's no
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  Speaker 1: way we're going.
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  Speaker 5: To get there.
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  Speaker 1: And the kid, maybe I hate you, I thought we
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  Speaker 1: were it's your fault. But the truth is, you know,
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  Speaker 1: if it's explained properly, there's no reason to be angry
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  Speaker 1: right because there's no injustice. There's no unfairness there. It's
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  Speaker 1: not unfair that we've got a flat tire. Is something happened.
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  Speaker 1: So that's why parents, I think it's important and then
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  Speaker 1: explain the consequences and also the reasons and say, you know,
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  Speaker 1: I'm disappointed too. You know, I really thought we were
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  Speaker 1: going to get to go to the mall together and
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  Speaker 1: we had everything was going well except we've got the
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  Speaker 1: plant tire. Now, if you were like in my family
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  Speaker 1: where your parents would make promises and they would never
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  Speaker 1: file through with them, Well, when I go on to
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  Speaker 1: the you know that was yesterday, I didn't like to
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  Speaker 1: you be hered at lunchter a breakfast this morning, when
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  Speaker 1: I go on and see it to a mall today,
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  Speaker 1: what are you talking about? Now? All of a sudden
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  Speaker 1: when I going to the mall. That's not fair, Like
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  Speaker 1: that's your that's not fair, you promise me, all right, now.
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  Speaker 5: That's anger.
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  Speaker 1: And it's important to distinguish those two because the strategies
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  Speaker 1: that you would use as a parent to help your
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  Speaker 1: child regulate would be very different.
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  Speaker 4: Well, let's talk about those strategies, because what I've found
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  Speaker 4: is that when I'm running a seminar for parents, they'll
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  Speaker 4: say things like, well, I'll ask the question what emotions
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  Speaker 4: are okay?
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  Speaker 2: And what emotions are not okay?
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  Speaker 4: When it comes to our children and their expression of emotion,
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  Speaker 4: you know what emotions are. We find with them expressing
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  Speaker 4: what ones are not okay, And most of the parents
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  Speaker 4: in the room will have a quick conversation with each
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  Speaker 4: other and then they'll knowingly not and say, all emotions
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  Speaker 4: are okay, all emotions are okay, And of course you
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  Speaker 4: know that's the right answer.
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  Speaker 2: All emotions are okay. Everybody knows that that's right.
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  Speaker 4: Except what we then start to uncover is that when
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  Speaker 4: children begin to have emotions, particularly big emotions like anger
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  Speaker 4: or like frustration, When children start to act out, be
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  Speaker 4: angry with their siblings and have these really big explosive
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  Speaker 4: emotions or even high levels of excitement what we might
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  Speaker 4: call the you know, quote unquote positive emotions, which I
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  Speaker 4: know is a loaded term. But when people will talk
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  Speaker 4: about the overarching thrill that kids are getting, when they're
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  Speaker 4: so excited that they're running around the house and they're
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  Speaker 4: banging into wars, and parents will usually say, actually, yeah,
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  Speaker 4: I know that all emotions are okay, but I'm very
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  Speaker 4: uncomfortable with my children having emotions that are above you know,
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  Speaker 4: maybe a six out of ten. As soon as the
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  Speaker 4: intensity ramps up, I just can't take it anymore. I
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  Speaker 4: need them to calm their emotions down. You can have
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  Speaker 4: the emotion, just have it quietly in the corner, please,
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  Speaker 4: That kind of ideas. So how do we help parents
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  Speaker 4: to take the information that emotions convey, like the anger
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  Speaker 4: or the disappointment and respond in effective ways.
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  Speaker 1: Well, the first is it depends on the intensity, right,
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  Speaker 1: because we know that our brains go into that flight,
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  Speaker 1: our fight mode when the emotions are running high. So
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  Speaker 1: a parents have to be the best role models, right.
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  Speaker 1: You can't if you get out to be like my parents,
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  Speaker 1: did you get triggered?
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  Speaker 5: Like kiss? What it's like over? You know?
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  Speaker 1: Because then you're both in that red quadrant on my
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  Speaker 1: mood meter, and you're just like active, you know, after
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  Speaker 1: each other. So firstly, what's really important I think for
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  Speaker 1: parents to know is that your kid did not trigger you.
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  Speaker 1: Got to say that again, your kid did not trigger you, right,
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  Speaker 1: you constructed that trigger right, because five people may watch
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  Speaker 1: that kid behave like Uncle Marvin wasn't triggered. Why are
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  Speaker 1: you triggering, daddy? It's not about me then, So just
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  Speaker 1: that's an important piece for parents understand.
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  Speaker 3: That's a really, really good point. Justin and I have
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  Speaker 3: spoken about this so many times in our house. So
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  Speaker 3: what you're really saying, Mark is that our kids can't
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  Speaker 3: actually make us feel anything correct.
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  Speaker 4: Emotions are contagious. We can easily catch what another person's feeling,
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  Speaker 4: but we're also in control of our emotions, and we
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  Speaker 4: can't blame our children for our explosiveness in response to
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  Speaker 4: their big emotion.
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  Speaker 1: Absolutely not. And also it's about our appraisal, our process
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  Speaker 1: of appraising the situation. So if I appraise this as
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  Speaker 1: like my mother, I'm assuming because she's no longer with me,
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  Speaker 1: and we never talked about this because I became a
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  Speaker 1: scientist after she passed away but my hunch is that
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  Speaker 1: she didn't have the resources or the skills to deal
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  Speaker 1: with the behavior that I confronted her with, and so
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  Speaker 1: she went into survival mode, defense mode.
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  Speaker 3: We're talking to emotion scientist Mark Brackett on today's Happy
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: Families Podcast. We'll continue our conversation with him in just
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  Speaker 3: a minute.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: For a happier family, try a Happy Families membership, because a.
• 9:07
  Speaker 5: Happy family doesn't just happen.
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: Details at happy families dot com dot au.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: It's a Happy Family's podcast Today.
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  Speaker 4: We're talking to professor Mark Brackett from Yale University. He's
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: the author of a book called Permission to Feel, which
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: is one of my favorite books ever on emotional intelligence.
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  Speaker 4: Mark just thinking about parents who might be explosive with
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  Speaker 4: the kids in the living room, they tend not to
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  Speaker 4: be so explosive down at the park or at the shops.
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  Speaker 2: When we have an audience.
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  Speaker 4: We just seem to be able to regulate our emotions better.
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  Speaker 4: So we do have the capacity to get to the
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  Speaker 4: point where our children are not making us blop.
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  Speaker 2: They can't make us blow up.
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  Speaker 1: Context matters when you're in a situation where you're going
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  Speaker 1: to be you know, watched you behave differently, especially as adult,
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  Speaker 1: which also leads to weirdness with a kid, like why
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  Speaker 1: you mean some mean to me here? You're not meaning
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: me when we're by Grandma's house. But I think you know,
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  Speaker 1: the first thing going back to like practical strategies here
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  Speaker 1: is that you know, as parents, we have to know
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  Speaker 1: how to deactivate, Like we just have to know that
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  Speaker 1: once we go into that hijack mode, we're not going
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  Speaker 1: to be helpful, you know, we're going to be in
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  Speaker 1: retaliatory you know mode. And then the second is that
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  Speaker 1: we have to help our kids deactivate because you can't
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  Speaker 1: ask your kid to think of a solution or support
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  Speaker 1: them when they're activated. So that might be taking some
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  Speaker 1: breath together, it might be giving some space, it might
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  Speaker 1: be taking a walk, it might be doing something to
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  Speaker 1: just bring the energy down. That's the first step in
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: all of our work. It's just like making sure that
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  Speaker 1: you're in that green quadrant right as best as you
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  Speaker 1: can to have that conversation. And then the questions are
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  Speaker 1: what goes next? And I think the next step is
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  Speaker 1: what you said a minute ago, which is there's no
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  Speaker 1: such thing as that feeling. It's the validation phase. It's understandable.
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  Speaker 1: I get it. My goodness, if someone made fun of
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  Speaker 1: me like that at school, I would feel the same
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  Speaker 1: way too. This is terrible. You've got to just validate
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  Speaker 1: the experience where you know a lot of parents do
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  Speaker 1: things like you know, well, why are you getting read
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  Speaker 1: with that? There's nothing to be angry about. Okay, Well
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  Speaker 1: that's not going to be helpful because I am it's
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  Speaker 1: about my perception and so like I am feeling that way.
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  Speaker 4: It's kind of like the would you just calm down,
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  Speaker 4: stop it, cut it out, that's enough, And that kind
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  Speaker 4: of response that doesn't validate it actually in flames it
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  Speaker 4: makes it go bigger because the child now is thinking,
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  Speaker 4: not only are having this big emotion that I don't understand,
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  Speaker 4: but now I'm being told there's something wrong with me
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  Speaker 4: for having it, and that's that's terrifying for a child.
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  Speaker 5: Completely.
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  Speaker 1: This is where right you asked, you know about the
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  Speaker 1: emotion scientist. So this is where the parents, as the
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  Speaker 1: emotion scientist, becomes that coach, and they become that coach
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  Speaker 1: by asking open ended questions. So tell me what happened
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  Speaker 1: before you came home today, what happened on the bus?
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  Speaker 5: How was math today? How is science today? Who would
• 12:02
  Speaker 5: you hang out with at lunch?
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: You know what's going on, you know, And that's where
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: you know, if you're afraid of sharing your own stories
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  Speaker 1: about your own disappointment and frustration, then you're probably not
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  Speaker 1: going to be doing that emotion coaching where you're learning
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: about your child's experience. And this is why, you know,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: parents have to develop the skills of emotional intelligence before
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: they can coach their kid, because if you don't have
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: the knowledge of emotion, like if you don't know as
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: a parent, the difference between anger and disappointment, like really
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: understand that one is about unmet expectation the other one
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: is about injustice, then you're absorbing information. You start labeling
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: the emotions for your kids. Oh so that's why you're angry. No,
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  Speaker 1: I'm actually disappointed, mom. You just haven't read that book
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: on emotional intelligence yet. And so it's really about the
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: parent having that knowledge about what we call the emotion
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  Speaker 1: themes that angers around injustice. Disappointment is around and expectations,
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: Fear is around danger, anxiety is around uncertainty. Because then
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  Speaker 1: as you're listening to the stories, you're starting to make
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  Speaker 1: some meaning out of Thus experiencing. I think it might
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: be this. I'm not going to say it, but I
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: think it might be fear. I think it might be frustration.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: I think it might be anger, And I'm going to
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  Speaker 1: try to clarify that with questions. That's the labeling piece.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, and this is where you say, if you can
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  Speaker 4: name it, you can tame it. A phrase that I
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: use all the time is we need to get curious,
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: not furious. It's all about this exploration. And what I've
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: also found marketing. You might have found this as well,
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: is that I can say to my children, you seem
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: to be feeling, and then I'll guess the emotion that
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: they might be feeling. And when I'm wrong, my kids
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: will usually say, no, I'm not feeling that at all,
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: and they'll correct me. They actually give me information back
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: when they can see that I'm trying to name it
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  Speaker 4: to tame it, they get that I'm trying to be
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  Speaker 4: that emotion scientist rather than the emotion judge completely.
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  Speaker 1: And so then we've gone from like being the role model,
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  Speaker 1: being prepared entering the conversation through the lens of my
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: best self as a mom or dad, to supporting, you know,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: my child and deactivating to the conversation with the open
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  Speaker 1: ended questions to try to find out the feelings that
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: are happening and the reasons for those feelings. And then
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: that's when the regulation comes in, right, that's when the
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: real strategies come in. So that's when you start thinking about,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: like if it was for me, for example, mine was
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: a lot of bullying, like walking home to and from school, Well,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: obviously there could have been an intervention there, but there
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: never was, and so I got stuck in this terrible
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: situation either on the school bus or walking where that
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: my parents would have known that I was feeling shame
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: and disgust and fear and the reasons for it. They
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: probably would have, you know, communicated with the school, maybe
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: figured out a way to you know, have my get
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: me to school in a different way. Maybe the kid
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: who was spitting on me and punching me would have,
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: you know, had some consequences for his behavior. Maybe we
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: would have known what he was feeling and what his
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: experiences were like. And so the regulation piece, I think,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: you know, most people struggle with the most because I mean, honestly,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: let's think about it, how many of us had a
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: formal education and healthy emotion regulation strategies growing up.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: Such a good point. Mark just absolutely loved the things
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: that we've talked about today and just that reminder that
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: it is so important for us as parents to be
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: intentional intention in the way we do things. Thank you
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: so much for taking time out again to spend with
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: us here on the Happy Families podcast.
• 15:45
  Speaker 5: All right, thank you so much.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: You really appreciate it.
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: Mark, I love that when we get to have guests on,
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: I actually like talking to us enough that they come
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: back and spend time with us.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: I reckon we should talk to make one more time.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Hopefully he'll be okay with that.
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: I'll check it out so that we can just finalize
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: because I think that there's I've got more questions and
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: he's been wonderful.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: We do hope that you've enjoyed the podcast.
• 16:03
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• 16:05
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• 16:06
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• 16:08
  Speaker 4: the podcast and puts it in front of them so
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: that they can make happier families.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: We are so grateful when you do that.
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Roulant from
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: Bridge Media, our executive producer is Craig Bruce. If you
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: would like more information on how we can help your
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: family flourish, you can get all the info at happy
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: families dot com dot au