Latest / No Country For Hot Girls / 22. Dua Lipa Is Our New Literary Critic, Kylie Jenner Is Saving the Horses & the Rise of Spy Dads (with Andy James)

Transcript

22. Dua Lipa Is Our New Literary Critic, Kylie Jenner Is Saving the Horses & the Rise of Spy Dads (with Andy James) · No Country For Hot Girls

0:12
SPEAKER_04: Because we have better things.
0:17
SPEAKER_06: Hello, hello, everyone.
0:19
SPEAKER_06: Welcome to the pod.
0:21
SPEAKER_06: Um, this week we've got one of my best friends and an artistic genius, I want to say.
0:28
SPEAKER_06: Um I was like, what's the word?
0:33
SPEAKER_02: Genius.
0:34
SPEAKER_05: Um artistic genius is the word.
0:38
SPEAKER_02: What an amazing introduction.
0:41
SPEAKER_02: An artistic genius.
0:44
SPEAKER_02: I could literally see like the tabs open behind your head where it's like um desperately like clutching at straws of artistic residences.
0:55
SPEAKER_06: Oh my god.
0:56
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'll just send them this intro.
0:59
SPEAKER_06: Well, anyway, welcome to the pod.
1:01
SPEAKER_06: Um, me and Andy once made a crack pipe together, didn't we?
1:05
SPEAKER_06: Out of um an apple.
1:07
SPEAKER_06: What was no crack pipe?
1:09
SPEAKER_02: Also, why would we do that?
1:12
SPEAKER_02: I think we really wanted to be drug users in like our first year of union.
1:16
SPEAKER_02: We just weren't.
1:17
SPEAKER_02: So we we were just said we were like, oh, maybe if we like smoke it through an apple.
1:21
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:22
SPEAKER_06: It will sort of like make it a bit more wholesome.
1:26
SPEAKER_02: Almond mum drugs.
1:28
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I don't even think we put any like weed in it into our apple.
1:32
SPEAKER_02: We certainly didn't have any weed.
1:34
SPEAKER_06: Like we didn't have any weed, although weed gave me like a panic attack at the moment it hit my lips.
1:39
SPEAKER_06: No, babe, like the I'd have a cold shower every time I was even in a room with weed.
1:45
SPEAKER_02: No, like the idea of talking to a drug dealer in any capacity in the first year of uni was like more terrifying than talking to the fucking tutors.
1:54
SPEAKER_02: Like, absolutely not.
1:57
SPEAKER_05: Now though, now though, best friends.
2:00
SPEAKER_01: I know my drug dealer's children.
2:03
SPEAKER_05: Godfather, godfather to his kids.
2:05
SPEAKER_01: Godfather, I baptized that little shit.
2:10
SPEAKER_06: Oh god, okay.
2:11
SPEAKER_06: Anyway welcome.
2:13
SPEAKER_06: Thank you so much for being with us today.
2:16
SPEAKER_06: Um, you're a you're uh you're a pop culture stan, aren't you?
2:21
SPEAKER_02: I love pop culture, I think it's the backbone of society and it's nothing to be sniffed at.
2:29
SPEAKER_02: So there.
2:31
SPEAKER_06: So there, okay.
2:33
SPEAKER_02: So there.
2:34
SPEAKER_06: The artistic genius has spoken.
2:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the genius.
2:37
SPEAKER_02: The genius is on the soapbox, and another thing.
2:43
SPEAKER_06: Okay, well, how are you?
2:44
SPEAKER_06: What were you up to?
2:45
SPEAKER_06: Because you are recording from Porto, aka Portugal.
2:48
SPEAKER_02: I am in Porto, aka Portugal.
2:51
SPEAKER_02: You know, the amount of people that think when I say I live in Porto, they think I'm like giving Portugal a nickname.
2:57
SPEAKER_05: Like, oh my god, stop.
2:58
SPEAKER_02: Like Andy Andrew, like Juliana Jewels.
3:01
SPEAKER_02: They're like, oh no, oh that's cute, like Porto, which part?
3:04
SPEAKER_02: And it's like so Australian, isn't it?
3:10
SPEAKER_02: It's like you've been to like you've been to like great yeah, yeah.
3:17
SPEAKER_02: You're like, I live in Porto.
3:19
SPEAKER_02: Live in Porto, are yeah, in Lisbon.
3:22
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
3:24
SPEAKER_05: That's really good.
3:26
SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, I'm recording from Porto.
3:29
SPEAKER_02: I believe we're in the ta the same um time zone again, which is which is cool.
3:34
SPEAKER_06: What do you mean?
3:35
SPEAKER_02: Um the clocks changed again.
3:38
SPEAKER_06: Oh, were we in a different time zone to you?
3:42
SPEAKER_02: I I don't know, and I also like I would love to know.
3:45
SPEAKER_02: This is a side note, but I would love to know who's in charge of like the time because I feel like my clocks have changed three or four times in the last month.
3:55
SPEAKER_06: I mean, I don't know where you've been.
3:58
SPEAKER_06: Maybe they're broken.
4:02
SPEAKER_02: It's the government.
4:03
SPEAKER_06: Sounds it sounds like you need to get them fixed.
4:07
SPEAKER_02: I know.
4:08
SPEAKER_02: No, I was so confused.
4:09
SPEAKER_02: Like on like Sunday morning, I woke up at like six o'clock in the morning and I was like, that's weird.
4:14
SPEAKER_02: And then I found out later that it was actually seven o'clock, but we'd gone back in time.
4:20
SPEAKER_06: See, I woke up at 10am and I thought, oh my god, I've woken up quite early because I was really tired.
4:28
SPEAKER_06: Little did I know, I'd I slept like 14 hours.
4:34
SPEAKER_02: Well, the early bird catches the worms.
4:36
SPEAKER_06: Which I was thrilled about.
4:38
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
4:40
SPEAKER_06: Wait, so what have you been up to this week?
4:43
SPEAKER_06: So you were saying that outside apparently you're you're seeing bright sunshine.
4:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so like I've been sort of like preaching to everyone that this like seasonal transition in Portugal has been quite like Disney.
4:57
SPEAKER_02: Like I was really walking through the streets one day last week, and like I felt like a cool breeze sort of like sweep around me, and like, you know, some sort of like rust-colored leaves like tornadoed around, and like that was winter arriving.
5:12
SPEAKER_02: Like, like it was really like that, and I was like, you know, like the birds went into hibernation the rest of it.
5:19
SPEAKER_02: So I was like, okay, it's winter, like you know, I dug out a knitted jumper kind of thing.
5:25
SPEAKER_06: You you threw on a an olive-hued cap.
5:29
SPEAKER_02: I didn't I shru I shrugged on a cardigan and did my hair in like a French plaque.
5:38
SPEAKER_06: Um, so you thought it was autumn, you you threw on your beanie.
5:47
SPEAKER_02: I threw on my beanie, and then I've well, as you can see, um dear listener, I've stripped everything off again, minus the beanie.
5:55
SPEAKER_02: Um because summer, summer is back.
5:59
SPEAKER_02: Maybe it never left.
6:00
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
6:01
SPEAKER_02: Like it's hot and heavy out here.
6:03
SPEAKER_02: It's barbecue season.
6:05
SPEAKER_02: I'm like.
6:06
SPEAKER_06: Is it actually hot?
6:07
SPEAKER_02: It's hot.
6:08
SPEAKER_06: How hot we're talking?
6:12
SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't know.
6:15
SPEAKER_02: Several degrees warmer than where you are.
6:18
SPEAKER_02: And it's like it's a vibe, like it's not jacket weather.
6:22
SPEAKER_06: AJ, when I say to you, it has not stopped raining for like six days, to the point that you can't even walk in the road because it's a river, it's a running river now.
6:32
SPEAKER_06: Like it's it's actually just like a new estuary.
6:36
SPEAKER_02: Um, so I'm like, you sent me that video the other day out your door, and it was like it was like you were in Venice.
6:42
SPEAKER_06: Literally, but like ten times uglier.
6:45
SPEAKER_05: Um we're here at the Biennale.
6:50
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, um like the off-Broadway Biennale.
6:54
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, literally.
6:57
SPEAKER_06: But it's like, I don't know, I I used to be that person that actually quite liked autumn, and something's happened to me this year that I'm I as much as I complained about summer, I I actually I I'm not ready for it to end.
7:11
SPEAKER_06: Like, I'm not ready for this.
7:13
SPEAKER_02: It's the most British thing in the world to be just like chronically dissatisfied with like your present circumstance.
7:20
SPEAKER_06: It's like I don't I know, I know, but like some years the point is, some years I am ready for autumn, but this year I'm really not.
7:29
SPEAKER_06: And I feel like you can see the days getting like darker, and like the fucking like night is coming in at sort of 6 pm, and I have to say it's it's been quite difficult.
7:40
SPEAKER_06: It's like I feel like I'm sinking into slight like funk, you know?
7:46
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm gonna say something quite controversial here, but like summer is the only good season, and the other three are just like fillers.
7:54
SPEAKER_02: So I don't know, like I mean, talk about like red spring, but like wet, wet blossom.
8:05
SPEAKER_02: Spring is like the it brings foreplay for summer.
8:09
SPEAKER_02: No, it doesn't.
8:10
SPEAKER_02: It brings nothing, it brings like a wet stank.
8:13
SPEAKER_02: Um spring's just a form spring is just a foreplay for summer.
8:17
SPEAKER_02: Spring is spring is edging summer.
8:19
SPEAKER_02: It's like summer is the orgasm, and autumn is just like the sad like shower afterwards.
8:27
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
8:29
SPEAKER_06: Autumn's like the post-coital sort of sort of glow that eventually becomes a bit sort of depressing and a bit like icky.
8:37
SPEAKER_06: Do you know what I mean?
8:38
SPEAKER_06: And then and then winter is just the shame at the end of it.
8:42
SPEAKER_02: Winter is the shame.
8:43
SPEAKER_02: Winter is absolutely the shame.
8:44
SPEAKER_02: Winter is like realizing you've got like a dirty condom stuck to your like ass.
8:49
SPEAKER_06: And you've probably got gonery and you've got to go back to the clinic clinic.
8:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you've got to go back to the clinic, and you were just there two days ago.
8:56
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah.
8:57
SPEAKER_06: Oh, that's quite good.
8:59
SPEAKER_06: I like that.
9:00
SPEAKER_06: Um, all right, so in World News today, and this is actually quite high brow for us, actually, but I thought we'd mention the uh Brazilian uh forgot the word for it, election.
9:11
SPEAKER_02: Election.
9:12
SPEAKER_02: I mean it's a big one.
9:15
SPEAKER_02: I don't know when Lula's one, that's what they do.
9:18
SPEAKER_06: Lula, is that what they actually mean?
9:19
SPEAKER_02: Lula.
9:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they do.
9:21
SPEAKER_02: It's not glee anymore, it's Lula.
9:22
SPEAKER_06: They know that it means loser.
9:25
SPEAKER_02: You mean Lula?
9:27
SPEAKER_06: Lula.
9:28
SPEAKER_06: Anyway.
9:28
SPEAKER_02: I think so.
9:29
SPEAKER_02: I mean Brazilians famously have a killer sense of humour, so I think they're in on the joke.
9:34
SPEAKER_06: Right.
9:36
SPEAKER_06: Well, that's quite good though, isn't it?
9:39
SPEAKER_06: Quite one bit of good news for the world.
9:42
SPEAKER_02: It's really good news.
9:44
SPEAKER_02: Like the alternative would be a fully fascist government, but I think it is also important to acknowledge that it was like very, very close, the election.
9:55
SPEAKER_02: Like it could have easily gone another way, and I think like a sort of like a society that's sort of so polarized is never really a good thing for society.
10:07
SPEAKER_06: Well, anyway, at least it's good news for the Amazon rainforest.
10:11
SPEAKER_02: It's good news for the Amazon rainforest, it's good news for society.
10:15
SPEAKER_02: I mean, especially like there's so much disparity in society in Brazil, so like it's very good for like people with less sort of like economic possibilities, I would say.
10:29
SPEAKER_02: And like, if you believe in democracy, then it's then it's a good thing.
10:34
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's a better thing.
10:35
SPEAKER_06: Well, in the meantime, we've got we've got riots going on in Paris, we've got rights going on in Milan, we've got riots going on in Barcelona.
10:43
SPEAKER_02: Riots going on right here in Porto.
10:46
SPEAKER_06: Are there?
10:47
SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
10:47
SPEAKER_06: What's about cost of living?
10:50
SPEAKER_02: Cost of living, yeah.
10:51
SPEAKER_02: It's like the the average income is like um way lower than rental prices.
10:58
SPEAKER_06: Oh, right.
10:58
SPEAKER_06: I mean, it seems to be the case.
11:00
SPEAKER_02: That's kind of like the baseline.
11:01
SPEAKER_02: There's like other stuff going on.
11:03
SPEAKER_02: And then like police brutality seems to just like creep into every discourse so easily.
11:11
SPEAKER_02: It's almost like they're waiting for an opportunity to like attack people in the streets, don't you think?
11:16
SPEAKER_06: What the police?
11:18
SPEAKER_02: Well, it's like we're trying to have a conversation about like the cost of living, and yet the police are like hammering people with like batons.
11:26
SPEAKER_02: It's like batons.
11:28
SPEAKER_02: It's like, well, that escalated quickly, isn't it?
11:30
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
11:31
SPEAKER_06: Like it's not, it's not really gonna help matters.
11:34
SPEAKER_02: Um like, why don't you put down your machine gun, sir?
11:38
SPEAKER_06: Well, there's been quite a lot of chat in in England because people are sort of like talking online about, you know, the world is basically rising up and young people are protesting against like all of these like you know injustices.
11:52
SPEAKER_06: Meanwhile, in the UK we're having like lime bite jousting tournaments.
11:57
SPEAKER_06: Um that's literally all that's happening.
12:02
SPEAKER_02: Um can you explain a bit like I I'm gonna need a visual of that, but not right now.
12:09
SPEAKER_02: Like, what why is it?
12:11
SPEAKER_06: Basically, this guy, he's an artist, but also like a model, you know, you know how it is.
12:17
SPEAKER_06: Um as a as a as a genius artist.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: As a fellow model slash artist, slash slash DJ, slash cultural commenter.
12:29
SPEAKER_02: Well apparently a apparently a political pundit.
12:32
SPEAKER_06: Pundit.
12:33
SPEAKER_02: A pundit.
12:35
SPEAKER_06: On South America.
12:37
SPEAKER_02: The South American correspondent.
12:39
SPEAKER_02: I really hope you don't have any Brazilian listeners.
12:43
SPEAKER_06: Oh god.
12:44
SPEAKER_06: We do actually, but anyway, um what the hell?
12:48
SPEAKER_06: Oh yeah, so jousting, they're jousting.
12:50
SPEAKER_06: So basically, this guy, um, God knows um why, but I mean I'm kind of in I'm here for it.
12:55
SPEAKER_06: He basically decided to like um organise a jousting tournament between him and his like quite weird friend um on line bikes and advertise it in London Fields.
13:05
SPEAKER_06: Obviously, it went down an absolute storm.
13:08
SPEAKER_06: Um, and now they're having a round two, and they're now introducing, I want to say, um what was it called?
13:15
SPEAKER_06: It was like maidens, a a maid, oh medieval maidens version of jousting on the line bikes, which I'm here for bikes are quite expensive for like fun and games.
13:28
SPEAKER_06: Maybe probably bought a pass.
13:32
SPEAKER_02: Are we gonna be like trend forecasting like medieval medieval bitch autumns?
13:38
SPEAKER_06: No, that's already happening.
13:39
SPEAKER_06: So apparently we're entering, like we're leaving.
13:42
SPEAKER_06: I think it was like cottage court, is like all like so 2005, and now we're entering castle core.
13:50
SPEAKER_02: Like Troy Savanna on a box.
13:52
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, oh my god, the party video 100%, and apparently it's an indicator of um recession.
14:00
SPEAKER_06: Fantastic.
14:01
SPEAKER_06: Didn't you tell me that?
14:02
SPEAKER_06: That it's like going like becoming really obsessed with like the past is like a recession indicator.
14:09
SPEAKER_02: To be honest, I've been like saying a lot of stuff as a recession indicator recently, and I was like talking to my mum, and I very confidently she's like low-key and economist, but I was like, um, I said very confidently that something was like a recession indicator, and she started speaking on it.
14:26
SPEAKER_02: At which point I swiftly realized I'm not entirely sure what a recession is.
14:31
SPEAKER_06: I do you know what?
14:33
SPEAKER_06: I don't know what a what is a recession.
14:36
SPEAKER_06: Is it like we should know that because it's fucked our lives?
14:40
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, but it's already fucked it.
14:42
SPEAKER_03: Like, what are we gonna do now?
14:43
SPEAKER_05: No, but it's still fucking it.
14:45
SPEAKER_05: Like every single issue that we're having in our lives is a result of that fucking recession.
14:51
SPEAKER_02: Which one?
14:52
SPEAKER_06: The one the one in America 2012, the financial crash, and then the recession.
14:58
SPEAKER_02: The financial crash.
15:00
SPEAKER_06: Like, what even happened with that?
15:01
SPEAKER_06: Load of oh, I don't I can't.
15:03
SPEAKER_06: I watched the big short and I think it was.
15:05
SPEAKER_02: It was so boring.
15:06
SPEAKER_02: It was so boring.
15:07
SPEAKER_06: Although I thought it was good, I just but it was like watching something in Chinese, like I didn't understand a single word.
15:12
SPEAKER_02: Not a single thing, and also like so many celebrities in that film.
15:16
SPEAKER_02: I was like, the eye candy was unparalleled.
15:19
SPEAKER_06: Unparalleled, and I was Ryan Gosling in it?
15:22
SPEAKER_06: I think he was.
15:23
SPEAKER_02: I can't remember.
15:24
SPEAKER_06: But do you remember that was like Ryan Gossing's hey?
15:26
SPEAKER_06: I mean, whether or not he was on it in it, I just want to discuss very quickly.
15:30
SPEAKER_06: That was like his heyday, don't you think?
15:33
SPEAKER_06: Like when he was in um uh The Place Beyond the Pines.
15:37
SPEAKER_06: Oh yeah, Place Beyond the Pines, and what uh what's that amazing one?
15:40
SPEAKER_06: Um Crazy Book.
15:42
SPEAKER_06: No, the one with Crazy Stupid Love.
15:45
SPEAKER_06: That's my favourite film with him.
15:47
SPEAKER_06: I love that film so much.
15:48
SPEAKER_06: But he was, oh my god, he was so hot, but he's done something to his face now.
15:53
SPEAKER_06: He's like shoved it full of filler now, and he just looks really puffy.
15:57
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think I think everyone is getting the the facelift.
16:03
SPEAKER_02: I think I think like you have to, otherwise you just look like really old and camp.
16:07
SPEAKER_06: No, but but he's not gone for the facelift, he's gone for the puff, the filler puff.
16:12
SPEAKER_02: He's gone for the puff.
16:13
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
16:14
SPEAKER_02: Well, well, everyone goes through that moment where they sort of like fill it all up.
16:19
SPEAKER_02: Ala, Kylie, Jenna segue.
16:22
SPEAKER_06: Scaparelli.
16:23
SPEAKER_02: Scaparelli.
16:25
SPEAKER_02: I'll never forget her face wearing that lion's head on her shoulder.
16:29
SPEAKER_06: That's when she met Timmy.
16:31
SPEAKER_06: That show.
16:32
SPEAKER_02: With that face.
16:33
SPEAKER_06: With that face, yeah.
16:34
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
16:35
SPEAKER_02: And she must have immediately gone home, dissolved everything, cut off about like five centimetres of face, and like wait, so Kylie's more context, but anyone who doesn't understand the reference.
16:47
SPEAKER_06: We're talking about when Kylie Jenner went to the Scaparelli show in Paris.
16:51
SPEAKER_06: This must have been about two years ago, maybe, maybe even three years ago.
16:55
SPEAKER_06: And after that, there was lots of headlines talking about how she had basically too much filler in her face.
17:00
SPEAKER_06: She basically looked very sort of puffy in various different places.
17:04
SPEAKER_02: She looked a bit like the woman that like wanted to turn into a cat.
17:09
SPEAKER_06: Jocelyn Weinstein or something.
17:12
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
17:12
SPEAKER_05: What's happened to her?
17:14
SPEAKER_05: I missed her.
17:15
SPEAKER_02: Honestly, if anyone looks at my Google history, like after I'm gone, or when I'm still alive or so, the amount of times I've Googled that woman.
17:24
SPEAKER_06: Have you actually?
17:25
SPEAKER_02: I'm obsessed with her.
17:28
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely absurd.
17:29
SPEAKER_06: But do you know what's so crazy is that that her sh the her like plastic surgery addiction used to be such an anom anomaly that her face was like almost monstrous in its like you know strange proportions.
17:44
SPEAKER_06: Whereas now, do you know what?
17:46
SPEAKER_06: She's she's not even her face isn't even that crazy in comparison to the masses.
17:51
SPEAKER_02: She's discreet.
17:52
SPEAKER_02: She needs she needs more work done.
17:54
SPEAKER_06: It's natural, I'd say.
17:56
SPEAKER_02: It's natural, yeah.
17:58
SPEAKER_02: She's gone for the sort of like um the Hayley Deba.
18:02
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, clean clean face aesthetic.
18:04
SPEAKER_02: The clean aesthetic, yeah.
18:05
SPEAKER_02: It's like, girl, haven't you thought about doing like a fox eye or something?
18:12
SPEAKER_06: Oh my god, that's really funny.
18:14
SPEAKER_06: But weren't we talking about so you were telling me about how Barry Keogan is now the face of some kind of face sculpting company?
18:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so like for me, like obviously it's like quite sad that that guy has been like bullied for his looks to such an extent that he's had like loads of plastic surgery.
18:37
SPEAKER_02: But like, I've I've always assumed like if you're gonna become like the face of something like a non-surgical facelift, is you're really doing that because you need the cash.
18:49
SPEAKER_02: But like, I don't know.
18:52
SPEAKER_06: What if you're doing their like marketing campaign or whatever?
18:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like if you kind of have to be like the face of like Invisalign, you know, like probably your like pop career isn't going that well.
19:03
SPEAKER_02: No offense to anyone who's the face of Invisalign.
19:09
SPEAKER_02: But like, do you know what I mean?
19:10
SPEAKER_06: So I mean I think to be the I think that's kind of a compliment to be the face of Invisalign.
19:14
SPEAKER_06: I mean, you'd have to have some absolutely cracking gnashes.
19:19
SPEAKER_02: But you'd have to do the before and after.
19:22
SPEAKER_06: And well, that reminds me, well, yeah, that's true.
19:24
SPEAKER_06: And maybe like if you took pick and yeah, if there was like sort of the in-between phase where you were like eating with them in and stuff.
19:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like scraggy, like taking out your retainer on a date and everyone's like, ew, it smells.
19:38
SPEAKER_06: But I yeah, that's the thing.
19:40
SPEAKER_06: There it's something about Invisalign that is kind of an ick.
19:43
SPEAKER_06: Like, you know, whenever like when I see people who have had them and it's the process is in the past, I'm like, it it's so worth it.
19:49
SPEAKER_06: Your teeth look amazing, you look amazing, but the process of it is is so like, oh for fuck's sake, like it's so annoying.
19:57
SPEAKER_06: Like, you know, when you're talking to someone, you could see they've got it in, and I'm like, babe, just take it out, and they're like, I can't, and then they have to fucking time their meals, just fucking take it out.
20:06
SPEAKER_02: You're like Tyra Banks on top mode, it's like, let's get those braces off.
20:11
SPEAKER_06: They're like, I need another two years till they're ready.
20:14
SPEAKER_06: She's like, I don't care.
20:15
SPEAKER_06: Get out of there.
20:16
SPEAKER_02: And she's like, and I want a gap in the team.
20:19
unknown: Yeah.
20:20
SPEAKER_06: But speaking, sorry, this isn't reminding me.
20:22
SPEAKER_06: Speaking of um celebrities like endorsing brands, have you seen obviously this isn't new news, but did you see that Timothy Chalamet is the face of Calchi?
20:32
SPEAKER_02: What's Calchi?
20:34
SPEAKER_06: So it's a financial trading app and it's like a prediction market platform.
20:39
SPEAKER_06: Um that basically, so it's basically like a betting app.
20:44
SPEAKER_06: But it's someone explained this to me this weekend actually.
20:48
SPEAKER_06: I didn't realise that how kind of dark it was.
20:50
SPEAKER_06: So basically, normal betting apps like labrooks or whatever, um, you can bet on like sport, you can bet on different odds, right?
20:58
SPEAKER_06: But there's like limits to what you can bet on.
21:00
SPEAKER_06: So you can't bet on, for example, like the end of the world.
21:03
SPEAKER_06: Whereas this app, Calci, you can literally bet on anything.
21:07
SPEAKER_06: So you could be like, I bet that um Elon Musk like basically ends the world.
21:14
SPEAKER_06: And it's like it's been panned by loads of people because like some of the stuff that people are betting on is like so morally bankrupt.
21:22
SPEAKER_06: But obviously Timothy Chalamet's like getting paid a shitload, so he's like, I don't give a shit, like whatever.
21:27
SPEAKER_06: But I just think it's so interesting, like he doesn't I'm assume he doesn't need the money.
21:33
SPEAKER_06: So I don't understand sometimes what goes through like these like celebrities or like do you know what I mean?
21:39
SPEAKER_06: Like what what's the motivation?
21:41
SPEAKER_06: I guess it must be money, obviously.
21:44
SPEAKER_02: It's giving it's giving Kardashian credit card.
21:47
SPEAKER_06: Well what's that?
21:49
SPEAKER_02: Oh, when when Google it.
21:53
SPEAKER_02: Um when the Kardashi when like Kim Kardashian launched like this credit card that they had swiftly like buried underneath like every other like brand they've ever done because it was completely corrupt.
22:04
SPEAKER_02: It was like a credit card for like young people with like just like would just like put you into like debt.
22:11
SPEAKER_06: Oh right.
22:12
SPEAKER_06: Okay I'd never heard of that.
22:14
SPEAKER_06: What what exactly was like what was the bank that they were getting the money from?
22:18
SPEAKER_02: I think they were the bank.
22:19
SPEAKER_02: I don't know I don't know how credit cards were like no one's ever trusted me with a credit card so like either.
22:26
SPEAKER_06: Have you ever had one?
22:28
SPEAKER_02: Obviously not what the fuck the only time I've ever borrowed money is like my student loan it was the worst mistake of my life.
22:35
SPEAKER_02: Like no one tells you when you apply for that at 17 that you're gonna be in debt forever for the rest of your fucking life.
22:43
SPEAKER_06: They email me every week and it's like no I um I've applied for I think like four different credit cards and every single one of them I've been rejected from and obviously but then I applied for a Revolut card which isn't a credit card and a Monzo and I'm rejected from them.
23:02
SPEAKER_06: I think my credit was can I just say why I have weird no no my credit rating is really bad but do you know why and this is really fucked up when speaking of being 17 when I was 17 just before we went to uni I um went to nationwide and I tried to get um I got a card a whatever debit card and they told me in this session because I was with my dad so I can confirm he's like a pedant so he remembers these things they were like you have an overdraft of 100 quid so I was like cool.
23:31
SPEAKER_06: So I go to uni I'm in that fucking shop do you remember in the union called like one no it wasn't one stop the most expensive shop in in Leeds yeah and it you'd buy like some Harry Bow for like nine pounds.
23:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah it was like the airport.
23:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah it was literally and it looked like the airport as well it was really and it was like an absolute nightmare if you didn't have time to like get your pre-drinks from like the corner shop and you had to get them there it was like oh the the um the Echo Falls bright pink rose for 11 pounds.
24:00
SPEAKER_06: Yeah yeah yeah yeah and then they'd have like questionable sort of like cured meats there and like oh the whole thing was oh it's actually giving me a PTSD.
24:08
SPEAKER_06: Anyway so I would go and I'd be like you know like tap tap tapping away with my credit with my debit card overspending what I had in my account which was about 10 pounds and it would allow me to overspend.
24:21
SPEAKER_06: So I was like oh cool it's the it's the old overdraft perfect free money and then and I was like free money um and then every single month I'd get like a letter being like you've incurred charges and I was like what are these charges?
24:34
SPEAKER_06: Anyway long story short I ended up incurring quite a few charges.
24:38
SPEAKER_06: I think it was like like£400 worth of charges which actually isn't that much but at the end£400 worth of Harry Beau.
24:44
SPEAKER_06: Yeah literally and I was like I obviously I didn't even bother opening them I was like what is this like this is so boring I can't even be bothered to read it anyway long story short turns out I didn't have an overdraft and I was just basically overspending on my card and then I explained to them that they told me that I had had to go to the this is so boring the financial ombudsman who cleared the debt but to this day my I have a really really bad credit rating.
25:12
SPEAKER_06: Isn't that so unfair so I could credit ratings were for Americans no they're literally like that everything that you do whether it's like buying a laptop to like anything important I wouldn't be able to buy a house with my credit rating.
25:25
SPEAKER_02: I mean not that not that we're there but I don't think that's something you need to worry about.
25:30
SPEAKER_02: Shut up but the revolute thing's weird because like there's literally like vending machines here in the train station where you can just like get a revolute card just like so there must be some kind of like FBI investigation on your back but I'm on like Interpol for for cards.
25:52
SPEAKER_05: Interpol for cards yeah so like they're watching on CCTV as you approach the vending machine right she's like the like normal high both she's gonna be a drain on the NHS like ban the card um can't be trusted.
26:11
SPEAKER_06: Speaking of um like celebrity endorsements I want to talk about Kylie Jenner's latest campaign which I know you have some thoughts on so she's the new face of the Sarah McCartney's new campaign which is called Wild Horses and it literally was announced two days ago it's there's a whole video of of Kylie basically like you know frolicking in some kind of beach with horses um and there's been kind of a bit of a pushback because people have said people online have been saying that Sella McCartney's um her whole kind of ethos of her brand is around sustainability and trying to help the planet and never using fur never using like leather never using any animal products and basically just being sustainable XYZ and people are saying that Kylie Jenner is is represents the antithesis of that.
27:02
SPEAKER_06: So she represents consum rampant consumerism basically and like a zero zero fucks for the environment um but also at the same time Stella McCartney's brand has been losing a shitload of money so I think they even closed their like London flagship store blah blah blah blah blah so they've obviously been like okay who is like a bankable face who's someone that might generate sales okay Kylie Jenner.
27:25
SPEAKER_06: What are your thoughts on that?
27:27
SPEAKER_02: Well I think they're absolutely right like she well done Stella McCartney team you've you've achieved what you set out to do everyone's talking about the ad campaign I just think like also first of all there's nothing sort of like sustainable about an international mega like fashion conglomerate like Stella McCartney.
27:51
SPEAKER_02: So like first of all I would suggest that like the sort of like environmental angle of the brand is marketing in itself so like vibes.
28:02
SPEAKER_02: Second of all like yeah like Kylie Jenner is the face of everything at the moment like she just like walked in the um underwear cat or Victoria's secret indeed underwear cap I mean yeah yeah whatever I don't know I just think like the fashion industry always works like this it's like a couple of years ago it was like the other Jen Kendall Jenner it's like whatever it's like the same with like photographers and stuff like you know at the moment it's all like that little like Sylvester Macco like however you say their name is like doing like literally like every single cover story and it's like yeah we're gonna see Kylie Jenner in everything for a few months and I just think like this rhetoric that like we expect more from these celebrities is a bit like it's a bit passe.
28:57
SPEAKER_02: It's like really like how many like iterations of celebrity do we need to go through where we're still like holding them up to this like gold humanitarian standard like none of these people ever pretended to be like anything other than exactly what they are like Kylie Jenner's not like aligning herself with like fucking Greta Thunberg she's like she literally made her fortune from like being born and then like times it by 10 by like selling lip filler like I'm sorry like what like is she supposed to be saving the horses like no that's well that is actually what the campaign is about.
29:40
SPEAKER_06: So um according to Stella um the film was basically supposed to the film underscores the themes of the full 2026 collection it's meant to be an ode to the power sensitivity and freedom of the horse and McCartney's belief that empathy for animals innovation and desirability can coexist.
29:57
SPEAKER_06: I mean arguably Kendall should have done that because she actually parently horse rides but um or like Bella didn't Bella fuck that cowboy for a while yeah I think she's got a new one she's into the cowboys I think I was just thinking about it because I thought it was quite funny like Kylie Jenner seems to be like like late stage capitalism's like answer to all of their problems like every single company that's basically tanking is like what do we need what do we need I know Kylie Jenner like literally we had Victoria's Secret fashion show it it finished it closed because of it's like a like fucking crazy like scandal with the guy being basically Epstein's mentor whatever and then they were like oh yeah we're back and everyone's like you've been on you've been away for five years like why are you back?
30:48
SPEAKER_06: We didn't want you and they're like okay do you know what we what we can do to rehabilitate our like sordid image I know get Kylie Jenner on there get her in a bra made out of million couple of like plus size models on that catwalk pounding might even give a couple of them the wings if you're lucky but I'm just like but like sorry just like with like Kylie Jenner it's like if you give that girl a paycheck and tell her to put on any mask like save the animal's mask she'll do it like sell a perfume she'll do like like I I'm sorry like what do you expect like she got a paycheck and she's an environmentalist it's like no but I don't I don't I don't blame kaijan for for doing that I think the the the pushback has been towards the brands like Victoria's secret we know that they're just like we don't like they don't give a fuck about anything but Stella McCartney like her whole business was always based on this kind of very sort of self-righteous sustainable and kind of like moralistic you know like ethos around like basically giving back to the planet and so people have said like by choosing someone who is so affiliated with kind of consum mass consumerism um it seems like an odd choice.
32:14
SPEAKER_06: I don't I don't think that's that's that crazy but one thing that I do think is crazy is like her endorsing the meta glasses.
32:20
SPEAKER_06: I told you this already but I think that's one thing that like if I was a celebrity and they were like okay we're gonna pay you a shitload to do like a fucking like if you want to be the face of Sad McCartney I'd be like fuck yeah like obviously I want to be like thrashing around in a bikini on a horse like thank you.
32:38
SPEAKER_06: Um whereas like doing the kind of pervert glasses but like sanitizing them by putting them on like a really famous woman like essentially they couldn't put it on a man could they because then that would have looked so perv-coded like they couldn't do that.
32:52
SPEAKER_06: So they had to find they had to sanitize the product by putting it on like a woman and who should they choose oh one of the most like famous women in the world and by endorsing them she's basically sort of like how do you put it like making it seem okay did the like did the sort of like discourse around the glasses being like pervert glasses did that exist before she like became the face yeah I think when Meta announced it there was like an outcry because people were like what the hell like you can like record people without their consent why does anyone need glasses where you can take photos and record on them like I know that we're living in a fucking like busy world now where productivity is like the most important thing but I'm sorry I I I have time to pick to go like this.
33:45
SPEAKER_02: There is like there there is a demographic of people and like they walk among us that are just like really into like they kind of like low key think they're just like spies but like that they don't have the sort of like that they haven't been like discovered by MI5.
34:02
SPEAKER_02: So like I know plenty of people and like I don't want to sort of like generalize but they are um white male boomers um but like they're always buying like gadgets that like low key make them spies.
34:16
SPEAKER_06: You know it's the same as like you know like a supercar it's like Titesco's you know it's them that's gonna it's like of course I need a pair of glasses that like takes photos and records my thoughts like my memoirs are gonna be off the chain like imagine now there's like imagine now there's a live stream of what I can see it's it's the spy man it's the spy dads I'm sorry dads do you know what you're so right the demographic of people who are buying them is a perverts b dads that that's a Venn diagram and sometimes the two are one more often than not more often than not unfortunately unfortunately for the children of the world it's the kind of thing that you'd get your dad for Christmas he'd use it for a week and he then he'd lose it and you'd be like then he's gonna use it in secret at the Victoria's Secret cat watch it's also giving like Apple Watch it's like Do you know what I think that we need to put a fucking blanket ban on any more tech like I'm sick of the tech get rid of the tech I want I want a fucking piece of paper and a pen I mean I'm here for that I also think like we're inventing the wrong stuff like that I want to be in I want to fly like get me a fucking sort me out with some wings that would be cool why haven't they got like a really efficient robot vacuum cleaner like why am I still cleaning my house like fucking Cinderella it's 2026 like I can take pictures with my eyeballs but like I have to scrub the floors like like my own personal service someone without their knowledge I can up I can upskirt with like a click of my brain but I'm still like I'm still like using a mop oh god speaking of um tech so we were listening to the interesting times podcast from the New York Times and they were talking to I think it was two weeks ago to James Marriott the author of the New Dark Ages and he was basically the it was really interesting podcast they were basically talking about how we're living in a post-literate society oh it's actually just so depressing but it was basically talking he he basically tells us the the stats that there's a 40% decline in leisure reading one in three UK adults reported having given up reading for pleasure and 400 words is the barrier that most people and particularly students hit before they want to stop reading.
36:49
SPEAKER_06: 400 words by the way in context is around 90 seconds of reading um and anyway and he was basically talking about how the reason why this is is because of the like proliferation of like video short form video content so because reading is active it's actually it takes some effort whereas watching things and looking at visual things is passive.
37:14
SPEAKER_06: So obviously our brains will always choose to do the like easier thing um over the like more more you know effortful thing.
37:23
SPEAKER_06: But he was basically saying that um reading text is quite um clinical in a way like it's distilling information in a very kind of structured um quite sort of clinical way whereas when you're looking at something and look and someone is telling you something so let's say someone is telling you information but it's like you're mate it's much more emotional and it's much more kind of um like immediate and it might be a bit chaotic or however it is whereas if you're reading like a newspaper to get your information in your news it's much more kind of ordered and a bit more like unemotional or clinical but probably quite a lot more accurate and logical where so in this post-literate society where we're getting our information from looking at videos it's going back to that sort of really ancient primal like gathering of information from humans but again going back to that like emotional receival of is that word receival of information.
38:26
SPEAKER_06: Do you know what I mean?
38:27
SPEAKER_06: So it's like because you're watching a video and someone's really angry about something and so you're getting that information but it's coloured with the emotion of how that person's telling it or um their tone or whatever rather than seeing it in the kind of like hard clinical fact.
38:42
SPEAKER_06: So it's it's that's part of the reason why we're getting so much more polarization.
38:45
SPEAKER_02: That's super interesting and then I guess it's like just like feeding ever more the breeding ground for like misinformation and propaganda and basically like everything our modern society is based on.
39:00
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
39:00
SPEAKER_06: I mean like because also if you're having a 40 second clip max then you're not gonna you're not gonna be getting all the important information in that you're gonna get the top the top notes and that's it.
39:11
SPEAKER_06: So no one is properly informed on any subject but that's but they're being kind of like emotionally strong armed into having a react like an emotional reaction.
39:20
SPEAKER_02: Well like as we see like society and kind of like all around the world just getting more and more polarized because like we're learning in an echo chamber basically so like if we're like getting our information from I don't know like TikToks or whatever we're only engaging with like social media presence or like general sort of like media presence that we're already aligned with because like I don't know like we're generally not seeking sort of like contrary well your algorithm as well exactly so then like I don't know like I'm seeing here like there's like big protests happening here and you're seeing like you know like everyone I know is in the same like accordance like everyone thinks the same thing everyone's like yeah yeah like there's like kind of nuances between but like generally people are fighting for the same thing but like that's not to say that like the whole of society believes that that's just my society.
40:18
SPEAKER_02: That's just my echo chamber.
40:20
SPEAKER_06: Well I do think it's like the insitification thing isn't it it's like the inshitification of like society and culture um which we were laughing weren't we about like um the so on the one hand we've got like falling literacy rates and like people basically not reading and then on the other hand we have this like uptick in like performative consumption of me media.
40:42
SPEAKER_01: So obviously we all know the performative reader he's basically an extension of the soft boy of the 2010s I'm I I'm a huge advocate for performative reading like I only I only read in public.
40:56
SPEAKER_06: But the thing is you you are I wouldn't class you as a performative reader because I feel like as discussed you are obviously an artistic genius so your energy has always been like quite I don't know you've just always been that kind of person like even when we were like you know like teenagers like you would be like reading a book or like going for like a swim and then reading your book or like I don't know like creating something weird or wonderful or whatever.
41:23
SPEAKER_02: Whereas I feel like this kind of genre of person like the performative reader particularly men is like there's um there's like a sanctimoniousness about it you know totally it's really like it's really like virtue signaling like I would argue it's not just reading it's like it's performative cultural consumption it's like it's like no I'm not scrolling on my phone I am actually like I am reading a little life and I feel strongly about it as an ally I do you know it's like yeah it's like you don't get it yeah yeah yeah or like reading the female eunuch like whilst having like a half pint of stout at like a cozy London.
42:09
SPEAKER_02: Waiting for like the bumble date to arrive.
42:12
SPEAKER_06: No but like not even like fucking taking up a like a like a four man table on a Sunday when you're desperately queuing to like get in for the roast but like there's no tables closed because fucking Cedric is reading the female eunuch and it's like make it reading like no it's like reading the ethical slot on the bus when you're just like you're just cheating on your girlfriend.
42:32
SPEAKER_06: And also I can see that you've read the same page again and again and again that you have to I can see your Simpsons comic book inside inside War and Peace.
42:44
SPEAKER_05: Yeah I can see it I can see Pornhub underneath that fucking that fucking spine of that book.
42:51
SPEAKER_02: Not protect oh god it's so god yeah I I but I also think like we are being like marketed literature and culture for that like performance like if you think of kind of like the hot books from the last year they are really like they're really performative like I think about like that like that really like Zeitgasty that excuse me that really zeitgeist zeitghastly ooh it's zeitghastly Kylie Jenner and the new Stella McCartney is simply Zeitgastly writes Marina Hyde of Guardian that should be a word because that is actually quite handy.
43:39
SPEAKER_02: Zeitgasty copyright clip it that's mine but like that Norwegian book like back in the day that um you know like dua lipa was all over like and it's like written by a 21 year old and it's like it's written in Norwegian obviously but it's translated into kind of like London And slang, but like the the text is sort of like it's written in a very colloquial way, like the chapters, it's it's almost kind of like prose.
44:17
SPEAKER_02: I don't know, like it really reads like um like a group message, um, like there's no punctuation, blah blah blah, all the rest of it.
44:25
SPEAKER_06: But like I hate that, it's so wanky.
44:28
SPEAKER_06: I know you loved it, yeah, yeah.
44:30
SPEAKER_02: No, but I love that shit anyway.
44:31
SPEAKER_02: Like, I was that fucking like 16-year-old reading Jack Karawak.
44:34
SPEAKER_02: Like, I was like, oh my god, yeah, yeah, yeah.
44:36
SPEAKER_06: See, like Virginia Wolfgang, I'm out.
44:40
SPEAKER_02: Genius recognizes genius.
44:43
SPEAKER_02: Um but I think like that kind of literature that's that's sort of like so primed for 2026 consumption being like really elevated isn't insignificant.
44:57
SPEAKER_02: Like, I think we are being fed culture that's like easier to consume somehow, or like hits us emotionally with with greater ease.
45:05
SPEAKER_02: Like we're seeing it with this, like the sort of like the winter run of like um exhibitions and stuff in London.
45:13
SPEAKER_02: Like, don't get me wrong, I want to see all of that shit, but like I I do also feel like um it's really like catered to mass culture, social media, like performatively engaging with culture, like you know, like that 90 show at Well the 90 show at Tate Britain, that's like that's that's King Kylie's tumbler, you know?
45:40
SPEAKER_02: That's like it's a vibe, it's a vibe, like I get it.
45:47
SPEAKER_02: I really want to see it as well.
45:48
SPEAKER_06: Like, I am I am a product of the society too, but like but yeah, I think yeah, I think that that's the right word, isn't it?
45:54
SPEAKER_06: It's vibe, it's like the vibes, everything is now like vibes-based, rather instant gratification, yeah.
46:02
SPEAKER_02: Uh what is that green tea with mint leaves?
46:07
SPEAKER_06: I thought it was pickles, like a pickles jar.
46:10
SPEAKER_06: I was like, oh my god.
46:11
SPEAKER_02: Like while you're talking, I start drinking a jar of pickles.
46:14
SPEAKER_06: It's like dua Lipa, do you remember when she was telling everyone in lockdown?
46:19
SPEAKER_02: Dua Lipa is just like somehow the authority on everything.
46:22
SPEAKER_02: On life, she's on like on eating, like for some reason we're all like, oh, where does Dua Lipa go for lunch?
46:28
SPEAKER_06: Like also, what does Dua Lipa read?
46:31
SPEAKER_06: And now, as I said to you, she is literally curating this year's um London Literary Festival, which I think is nuts.
46:42
SPEAKER_02: Because like in previous years it was like Zadie Smith, and now we've got like Well, like not only is she curating like the literary festival in London, she is like the face of banned books in Porto.
46:54
SPEAKER_02: It's like she's like I don't know.
46:58
SPEAKER_06: What are your qualifications for this, other than like being kind of a fan of books?
47:02
SPEAKER_06: Like, do you know what I mean?
47:04
SPEAKER_06: I mean it's like the end shittification of culture.
47:07
SPEAKER_06: Like, why have we not got fucking I don't know, Margaret Atwood doing the curation?
47:12
SPEAKER_02: Like, we've got Salmon Rushdie speaking on having literature cancelled.
47:16
SPEAKER_02: It's like do uh like no hate to do her.
47:19
SPEAKER_02: I love that for her.
47:20
SPEAKER_02: I'm always happy when I see her face.
47:22
SPEAKER_06: She's so smart and she's obviously so interesting, she's obviously really passionate about these things.
47:26
SPEAKER_02: But I'm like And she met her husband reading a book, no less.
47:30
SPEAKER_02: Famously, famously on the same page, I think.
47:34
SPEAKER_05: Famously, I'm still not over that.
47:36
SPEAKER_02: On the same page, but do you know what I mean?
47:40
SPEAKER_06: It's like we've gone from being like, okay, you know, I don't know, fucking Martin Amos being the authority on reading, to like Zara Larson because she like really liked the secret history.
47:52
SPEAKER_06: Do you know what I mean?
47:53
SPEAKER_02: It's like don't you dare speak ill of Zara Larson.
47:58
SPEAKER_06: I wouldn't, I wouldn't dare.
48:00
SPEAKER_02: But it's like if I'm gonna be cancelled.
48:03
SPEAKER_02: I actually had her new I had her new music video down as one of my like um podcast notes, but I I don't have anything to say about it other than it's a it's a perfect it's a perfect music video.
48:13
SPEAKER_06: Is it?
48:14
SPEAKER_06: I have which one?
48:15
SPEAKER_06: What's the song?
48:17
SPEAKER_01: Blue Blue Moon?
48:19
SPEAKER_06: I don't even know what it is.
48:21
SPEAKER_01: Great.
48:22
SPEAKER_06: Thank you for that recommendation.
48:26
SPEAKER_06: Okay, I think we need to wrap this up.
48:29
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
48:29
SPEAKER_06: Um any recommendations?
48:33
SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, I've famously never seen a film before, but one that I would love to see.
48:42
SPEAKER_02: I want to see Primetime starring Edward Cullen.
48:46
SPEAKER_02: I think that looks really fun.
48:49
SPEAKER_02: Um you have to recommend things that you well I can I can like do the opposite of recommending something.
48:57
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
48:57
SPEAKER_02: Wathering Heights, um, Wuthering Heights, the new one with the soundtrack by Charlie XEX, is the the biggest load of bullshit I've ever seen in my life.
49:05
SPEAKER_02: It's so shit.
49:06
SPEAKER_02: The only good thing is the music.
49:08
SPEAKER_06: Okay, but this is quite this is quite um behind the times, but you re- you only watched it for the first time this week, didn't you?
49:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I didn't finish it.
49:17
SPEAKER_02: Maybe it gets better at the end.
49:19
SPEAKER_02: Oh, did you want me to talk about it?
49:20
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't get better at the end.
49:23
SPEAKER_01: I've closed the tab now, anyway, so it's dead too.
49:28
SPEAKER_02: Um I did I was enjoying the um Netflix adaptation of East of Eden, which I feel has also been out for about two months, but I'm I've been struggling my way through that just because of the length of the episodes.
49:43
SPEAKER_06: Oh, really?
49:44
SPEAKER_06: Are they long?
49:45
SPEAKER_02: It's like an hour.
49:47
SPEAKER_02: But um I I read the book when I was a teenager and then I read it again in like my mid-20s, and like I've I love that book.
49:55
SPEAKER_05: Do you?
49:56
SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, I really did.
49:59
SPEAKER_02: But now I listen to the um the book club podcast about it, I'm like questioning myself.
50:04
SPEAKER_02: Um, but the the um Netflix adaptation is really fun and also like I don't know, you know, when you like re-engage with a story with like a kind of new mindset.
50:16
SPEAKER_02: And like so, like the TV adaptation is like, I don't know, like when you read the book, you're really supposed to be like, like the the main like female character, the one played by Florence Pugh, she's like totally Kathy is like she is the antagonist, like you she she is the epitome of evil in the book.
50:35
SPEAKER_02: And like I must admit, even reading the book, I was like rooting for her somewhat.
50:40
SPEAKER_02: Okay, but in the Netflix version in 2026, like she is the only character you're rooting for.
50:48
SPEAKER_02: Like Florence.
50:51
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, the girl's doing what she has to do, like her murdering her parents.
50:56
SPEAKER_02: Her parents were gonna punish her.
50:58
SPEAKER_02: She had to kill them.
50:59
SPEAKER_02: She had to kill them.
51:00
SPEAKER_02: Like, she can't take that punishment.
51:02
SPEAKER_02: Also, like, yeah, like the teacher, she was she's so beautiful.
51:06
SPEAKER_02: Like, we can all relate to the teacher falling in love with her.
51:09
SPEAKER_05: It's just like who's the teacher?
51:12
SPEAKER_02: At the beginning, when the teacher falls in love with her, it's like it's not her fault.
51:15
SPEAKER_06: Oh, I see.
51:16
SPEAKER_06: I haven't read it, so I literally only know what they've talked about in the book club podcasts.
51:21
SPEAKER_02: So, like, her like first evil act is that like her school teacher gets completely obsessed with her romantically, but she's like underage, she's like a young teenager, and then she rebuffs him and he commits suicide.
51:36
SPEAKER_02: And in the book, this is like she's like a master manipulator for this, but like when you see it play out like on the screen without Steinbeck's fucking like misogynistic rhetoric in the background, you're watching it, and I'm it's like, okay, so like children this child, yeah, yeah.
51:57
SPEAKER_02: This child is like seduced by a grown man who then rebuffs him and he commits suicide as a consequence.
52:06
SPEAKER_02: I don't I don't really see what that has.
52:08
SPEAKER_02: It's not really anything to do with her.
52:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
52:10
SPEAKER_02: I mean, obviously, like burning her parents alive is questionable.
52:15
SPEAKER_02: It's mad.
52:16
SPEAKER_02: I would never do that.
52:17
SPEAKER_06: Would you okay, yeah.
52:19
SPEAKER_06: Would you you would never do that?
52:20
SPEAKER_06: Okay, good to know.
52:21
SPEAKER_02: Would you ever burn your parents alive?
52:23
SPEAKER_06: Maybe.
52:24
SPEAKER_06: Uh depends on the definite.
52:26
SPEAKER_06: 5,000 pounds.
52:29
SPEAKER_06: What 100%.
52:30
SPEAKER_02: Um the star in the new Stella McCartney campaign.
52:34
SPEAKER_06: But like, I don't really like Steinbeck.
52:38
SPEAKER_06: I don't like I don't like Eye of Mice and Men.
52:40
SPEAKER_06: I don't know.
52:40
SPEAKER_06: I find his I find his stories like depressing and not that interesting.
52:44
SPEAKER_06: So to be fair, I've read Over Mice and Men.
52:46
SPEAKER_06: I haven't read East of Eden.
52:48
SPEAKER_06: Are they similar or are they like the way they're written?
52:52
SPEAKER_02: East of Eden, well, like I feel like Steinbeck's literature is generally like he's all about like the moral compass, isn't he?
53:00
SPEAKER_06: So like dull at the same time, it's a bit like fusty, you know?
53:06
SPEAKER_06: But depressive.
53:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean it is a bit like that, but it is also like it is also like who are you to tell me like what's right and wrong, John Steinbeck.
53:18
SPEAKER_02: Like, what do you have to recommend?
53:20
SPEAKER_06: Well, I was gonna say I'm recommending Widow's Bay, uh, I keep calling it Widow's Peak, Widow's Bay.
53:25
SPEAKER_02: Um isn't a Widow's Peak like the hair when it goes like that.
53:29
unknown: Yeah.
53:30
SPEAKER_06: But like, anyway, I watched it, and everyone, every single place, every publication, every uh review is giving it five stars.
53:38
SPEAKER_06: I have to say, I wouldn't give it five stars.
53:41
SPEAKER_06: I'd give it, it's definitely in my mind a four-star show.
53:44
SPEAKER_06: But it's really good, it's really unusual, it's very like gothic and kind of slightly vampy, campy, like very stranger things.
53:52
SPEAKER_06: At points I was like, you've copied stranger things, including even the fucking font of the of Widow's Bay, like the title.
54:00
SPEAKER_02: What's that about?
54:01
SPEAKER_02: I thought it was a book.
54:02
SPEAKER_06: It might be, I don't know.
54:04
SPEAKER_06: It's um it's about this little tiny like island off, I want to say, like, uh off the mainland America, off like New York.
54:13
SPEAKER_06: They the mayor, um, played by Matthew Reese, who's this really hot Welsh act actor, but he's playing this American character.
54:21
SPEAKER_06: Anyway, he's the mayor, he wants to get tourism to Widows Bay because it's it's everything's shit, they can't even get Wi-Fi, like you know, everything's falling apart.
54:29
SPEAKER_06: But the the old mayor comes running in and he's like, Stop trying to get tourists here, like the island's cursed.
54:37
SPEAKER_06: Anyway, long story short, the mayor, Matthew Reese, doesn't believe him.
54:42
SPEAKER_06: Weird shit starts happening.
54:44
SPEAKER_06: Turns out the island is cursed, and then this whole storyline of like how it's cursed and them trying to like get rid of the curse, blah blah blah blah blah.
54:54
SPEAKER_06: Um, some of the episodes the first like five episodes I would say were really good.
54:57
SPEAKER_06: The sixth episode, I was like, this is so ridiculous.
55:00
SPEAKER_06: They had this like guy dressed up as like um like some kind of Puritan from like well he was I'm not gonna spoil it, but anyway, he was he was in the costume of like a 17th century Puritan and the wig that he was wearing, I just couldn't stop looking at the wig, it just looked so fake.
55:17
SPEAKER_06: So anyway, so it got a bit stupid, but I do recommend.
55:21
SPEAKER_06: Okay, to end, what would you say is your number one book to read performatively?
55:31
SPEAKER_02: As I gaze at my bookshelf, I think I think like anything sort of like ally um aligned.
55:42
SPEAKER_02: So I think like Ocean Vong on Earth were briefly gorgeous is like a classic.
55:47
SPEAKER_02: It's like reading that and like masturbating under the table.
55:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
55:52
SPEAKER_02: Um I do think 100.
55:56
SPEAKER_02: Um I don't know, also like um quite jokes to be like reading a script.
56:04
SPEAKER_06: Like oh god, yeah.
56:05
SPEAKER_02: You mentioned earlier like reading Macbeth in the book.
56:09
SPEAKER_06: I tried.
56:10
SPEAKER_06: I really tried non-ironically to read Macbeth.
56:13
SPEAKER_06: I never read it before.
56:15
SPEAKER_06: And first of all, I didn't understand a word, it's like reading another language.
56:18
SPEAKER_06: So it took I I I I gave up after halfway through, um, which is not great because I do actually also teach it to grind on people.
56:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was gonna say, I thought that was your like specialist side.
56:29
SPEAKER_02: My bread and butter.
56:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
56:32
SPEAKER_06: I'll cut that bit.
56:33
SPEAKER_06: Um, okay, yeah.
56:34
SPEAKER_06: I think mine would be mine would be some kind of play, like an Aristotle situation, or maybe a Macbeth.
56:41
SPEAKER_06: I'd read the first three pages and then.
56:43
SPEAKER_01: Any of the classics, like I don't know, George Elliot.
56:49
SPEAKER_01: East of Eden arguably is like that's a performative read.
56:52
SPEAKER_02: That's like a that's a chunky book.
56:55
SPEAKER_06: Do you know who I really want to get into, but I just know I'll hate?
56:58
SPEAKER_06: Dostoevsky.
56:59
SPEAKER_06: Like, I wish I could read Crime and Punishment.
57:02
SPEAKER_06: I wish I was the kind of person who could read it, but I just know I would hate it.
57:08
SPEAKER_06: No, but that would be my next performative read, I reckon.
57:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
57:12
SPEAKER_02: But I mean, you just need to carry the book around sometimes until somebody asks.
57:16
SPEAKER_06: And then it's basically the same thing, isn't it?
57:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
57:19
SPEAKER_02: And then it's just like, and you can also be like, oh, like I'm really struggling through it.
57:23
unknown: Yeah.
57:24
SPEAKER_02: And it's like, oh, you're actually like engaged with that.
57:26
SPEAKER_06: Like impossible book.
57:28
SPEAKER_06: I'm AIing every chapter.
57:33
SPEAKER_02: I'm watching the the adaptation, the film adaptation.
57:37
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
57:38
SPEAKER_05: With like Aaron Jordan.
57:40
unknown: Yeah.
57:41
SPEAKER_02: Also, kind of like any book of poetry is quite a good, like, performative read.
57:46
SPEAKER_06: The wasteland every time.
57:48
SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, totally.
57:50
SPEAKER_06: Get it out.
57:51
SPEAKER_02: Dharma bombs.
57:54
SPEAKER_06: Okay, I think we've I think we've I think we've hit all the notes today.
57:59
SPEAKER_02: Oh we performatively reading like the Quran.
58:03
SPEAKER_06: God, yeah, or the bloody like Old Testament or something.
58:06
SPEAKER_02: The old like written on stone.
58:10
SPEAKER_02: Performatively reading that fucking like the Yan, the Yanit manuscript.
58:17
SPEAKER_05: And someone's like, mate, you realize that no one's ever been able to translate that, and you're like, No, mate, mate, mate.
58:23
SPEAKER_02: I think I've cracked it.
58:24
SPEAKER_02: I think I've cracked it.
58:25
SPEAKER_05: I've cracked it, I've cracked it.
58:26
SPEAKER_02: Just give it, give me 15 minutes.
58:28
SPEAKER_02: I think I know.
58:29
SPEAKER_02: I think I think I've got it.
58:30
SPEAKER_06: Like I'm getting, I've got the gist.
58:32
SPEAKER_06: I've got the gist.
58:33
SPEAKER_06: Like, don't worry, Barbie.
58:34
SPEAKER_02: I've got like the first 10 lines, and it's just like yeah, I've just got to get a couple of these symbols of deciphered.
58:44
SPEAKER_06: Deciphered.
58:47
SPEAKER_06: Right, on that note, let's wrap it up.
58:49
SPEAKER_06: Well, thank you so much for being on the show.
58:51
SPEAKER_06: Love you so much.
58:52
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me.
58:53
SPEAKER_02: I've had the time of my life.
58:56
SPEAKER_06: The genius artists, everyone.