Latest / Mortgage Marketing Radio / Stop "Following Up" With Leads and Do This Instead

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Stop "Following Up" With Leads and Do This Instead · Mortgage Marketing Radio

0:00
In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with
0:04
the real estate agents is essential for success.
0:06
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1:03
Hey, Listers, what's up, Jeff?
1:11
This is Imfer.
1:12
Welcome to another episode of the Mortgage Marketing Radio podcast.
1:14
Thank you for tuning in.
1:16
Question for you.
1:17
Are you willing to let go of the sale?
1:22
Are you willing to remove the pressure from you, from your prospects?
1:28
Are you willing to not be so much about telling people what you can do, what your products
1:36
and services are, what your interest rate is?
1:39
And are you willing to be open to selling the problem, focusing more on the problem than
1:49
the solution?
1:51
My special guest on this episode is going to help you realize that the sale is lost at
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hello, not at the end, and that unlocking the sales game starts with mindset.
2:06
Yes, building trust, but as you'll hear from our special guest today, building trust
2:11
in a unique, indifferent way, that increases your conversion, accelerates trust, and makes
2:19
selling a whole lot more fun.
2:22
Before we get into that, just a quick word of housekeeping.
2:25
If you'd like to connect with me further, you can go to Facebook and type in Mortgage
2:30
Marketing Radio podcast, join our private group there where we've got more content, live
2:33
streaming, special guests, ask me anything, sessions and more.
2:37
That's Facebook Mortgage Marketing Radio podcast group.
2:41
And then secondly, if you are looking to increase your conversions, build trust, increase your
2:48
support, realtor, referrals and relationships, perhaps we have a solution for you.
2:53
Look, let's face it, rates are down, refies are down, and you want more purchase business.
3:02
But the challenges, real estate agents are really busy, and there's a lot of other loan
3:06
officers chasing them as well.
3:07
So there's a lot of noise.
3:09
Therefore, you need a way to rise above the noise, attract real estate agents, stop chasing
3:14
real estate agents with something of actual meaningful value.
3:21
You want to help them solve problems.
3:23
That's what we're talking about on today's episode.
3:25
We can help you help them solve problems.
3:28
If that sounds like you and you want to learn more about how do you get more agent referrals
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at scales and less time without co-calling, without chasing, without pay to play, and
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that kind of thing, go to Mortgage Marketing.pro.
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We've got a plug and play turn key educational platform that puts you in charge, puts you
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in front of, as many agents as you want to be at scale, identify the right agents, drive
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conversations, build trust by leading with value first, help them solve the problems they
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have in their business by sharing with them classes that are going to help them grow their
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business in the areas of social digital marketing, database management, and more.
4:03
Want to learn more, go to Mortgage Marketing.pro, check it all out.
4:08
So this week, my special guest is Ari Galper.
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Ari Galper is the world's number one authority on trust based selling.
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He's the author of Unlock the Sales Game, and the soon to be released book, The One Called
4:20
Sale.
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He's been featured in CEO magazine Forbes, CNN, Australian Financial Review, and I originally
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became aware of Ari 15 years ago when I saw him present on a few different stages in
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the marketing and sales space, particularly Dan Kennedy, for those of you who might know
4:37
him.
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And Ari brings a very unique fresh perspective to selling.
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As you heard me talk about in the intro, listen, take notes, most importantly, check out
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the resources that are provided in the show notes here for this show, and for Ari himself,
4:52
his website, his book, follow him on LinkedIn.
4:55
There's a link in the show notes to his LinkedIn profile, because he has a show it's called
4:59
Stump the Guru, where you can actually present your number one big sales question or challenge,
5:05
see if you can stump Ari.
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And I think you're going to enjoy this kind of candid, conversational discussion with Ari
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and myself today on some important topics about how do we remove the pressure from sales,
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and how do we win the sale at the start of the conversation versus the end, some suggestions
5:26
on what to not do and what to do to increase our conversion rates that he proposes if you're
5:32
not converting 100% of your qualified prospects, then that could very well be on you.
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So I think you're going to enjoy this episode, I'd love to get your feedback on this.
5:44
If you think it's worth it, please leave us a review.
5:47
So without further ado, let's get into this week's show.
5:50
Ari, welcome to the show.
5:51
Thank you.
5:52
Good to be here.
5:53
Pleasure to have you, sir.
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As we were talking just before we hit record, I have known of you've seen you watched you
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present.
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I'm thinking how far back does that go?
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That's got to be 15 years ago, 10 years, yeah, when I saw you on the Dan Kennedy stages
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and what struck me about that was you are running, you basically, well, let's do this first.
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Who are you?
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What do you do?
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So my name is Ari Galper, I specialize in a unique niche called trust-based selling, how
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to help entrepreneurs and consultants and really top in sales professionals to be able to
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navigate the sales field without getting wounded by bullets coming your way.
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What I mean by that is chasing ghosts, falling over people, playing the numbers game, all
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that stuff, everybody hates, how to do it with trust and ironically let go of the
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sale and make more sales.
6:47
Okay, so there's a few things in there chasing ghosts like that, a lot of people do that,
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letting go of the sale.
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Where do you tend to focus your superpowers, if you will, is it finding the right people
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to talk to or is it the process of actually converting the sale?
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Yeah, I know, it's definitely the specialty is sales conversion using trust.
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Once you have them in a conversation, in fact, I'm working on a new book this year called
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The One Call Sale Coming Out, which is where you can press a sales cycle to one single
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conversation.
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So it's really about deep trust in a short amount of time.
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Yeah, I saw that and so that was going to be a talking point for me because aren't there
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a few things that need to happen before a one call close actually occurs?
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What do you mean?
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All leading up to, like you say, it's all about building trust, right?
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But if you're saying the one call sale, right, one call close, I have one call and I convert
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the sale.
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Is that the premise?
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Yeah, when I say one call sale, it's more of a concept.
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I'm not saying everyone gets a time contract on the spot, but I will suggest that if you do
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it right, you'll have a next step that leads to a sale as opposed to them dropping off
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and saying things you like, let me think about it.
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Sounds great.
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Some are a proposal.
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And then you follow up with them and you're chasing the black hole and you're stuck.
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You're like, how do I get here?
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It's a great call.
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So what we've all had that, right?
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We feel the virtual paths on the back and nothing ever happens.
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They go radio silent on you.
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All right.
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So how do you mitigate, minimize, prevent that from happening?
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Well, it's a mindset shift because the way I teach it is you have to, first of all,
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let go of your own objective to make that sale, which is really hard for people who have
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been conditioned their whole lives to pursue the end goal.
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But once you make that shift and you shift in what I call a doctor patient mode, you're
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the doctor, they're the patient, you're diagnosed in their problem without assuming a prescription.
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Then you're in a different state of mind and they can feel that you care about them because
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you're really understanding them better than understanding themselves.
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So this is really about being present.
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It's about engaging people in a way that is totally void of any sales behaviors.
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Now, that's going to be tough for people who've grown up in the sales world who still do
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things like following up, checking in, touching base, how's it going?
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We'll talk about that detoxing a little bit.
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Detoxing.
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Well, you said something first of all, it's a mindset shift and I think that's oftentimes
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the keys to going to that next level, getting a quantum leap.
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What is some of the baggage if you want to go deeper on sales, commission, breadth, that
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type of stuff?
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Well, there's three myths that people still hold onto that we're still living many
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of us in the past.
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One is the idea that sales is a numbers game and we grew up thinking that the more contacts
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we make, the more leads we have, the more sales we get, well, we discover it's not about
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how many contacts you make anymore.
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It's about how good you are at trust building, not how good you are, how many contacts
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you have, bit of a different shift there.
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The other myth is the idea, the sales loss at the end of the process, you know, we had
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a deal pending and all look good, just fell out and at the end, you're like, what happened?
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It was perfect.
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Well, we discovered the sales loss at the beginning now, not the end, and I'll prove it to you
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right now in a fun way.
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If someone calls your office tomorrow morning, you pick up the phone and you hear hi.
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My name is, I'm with, we are a, what goes through my mind about three seconds.
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What have they done to sell me?
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It's over and hello.
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Yeah.
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So I'm not suggesting your folks are all doing up on calls, but I will suggest that you're
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losing their sales not at the end, they're losing at the beginning.
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And the last one is the idea of a rejection.
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The rejection is part of the game.
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You got to be tough.
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You got to be thick skin.
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If you can't take a know, you're a whimp, get back out there.
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You know, it's fun.
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I came from the old sales manager who got beat up a lot and said, hey, if you can't do
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that, you can't handle it.
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Well, we discovered also that we'll talk about this, that rejection is triggered by
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certain things you say and do unconsciously that causes them to push back on you.
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Well, that's a hot button right there because the most of my listeners, they're mortgage
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professionals and they're often calling on, cold calling, oftentimes, real estate agents
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to try and get those relationships and referrals.
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And there's definitely, it comes with it, a certain amount of like you're wearing this
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coat of fear and rejection and they're going to say no because they get all these same
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calls.
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Yep.
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What are some tips?
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How do they show up differently?
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Well, they're caring what I call sales or armor on.
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They care armor on, protect themselves from the bullets coming their way.
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And the way you shift your approach, first of all, there's different levels here.
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One is the mindset.
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One is your language as well.
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What you say and how you say it's not descriptive, but it's the approach.
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So for instance, in our approach, we don't say hi.
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My name is I'm a mortgage broker, I'm with we, you know, we don't start the sales
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way.
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We start with hi Jeff, my name's Ari and I'm hoping you can help me out for a moment.
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That's different.
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First of all, are you intentionally doing the tone as well?
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Oh, yeah.
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Yeah, delivery half of this because if you say hi, my name is Ari.
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How's it going now?
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Hoping to help me out.
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Right over.
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So you have to breathe, you have to slow down, you have to be not a speed train, you have
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to allow space to exist.
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So they enter it.
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If you move too quick too fast, it's over, the regard goes up.
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So when you say I'm hoping you can help me out for a moment, human nature is a dive in
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and say, how can I help you?
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Well, the first thing that hits me about that is you're immediately interrupting my pattern
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or frame by which I'm expecting you to come at me with.
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So the creates that space of listening now.
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Right, because everyone else does the opposite.
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Yeah.
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And I'll warn everybody now, all my ideas are very contrary and so hang on, hang on, you
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seat there.
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But you have to break the pattern by not coming across like that stereotypical sales person.
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Right.
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Right.
13:09
Interesting.
13:10
Interesting.
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What do you then say though about the whole matching and mirroring thing?
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I say ignore it.
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Don't do it.
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Ever do that because now you're forcing yourself to adapt to them.
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Don't change who you are.
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Don't be someone you're not because it changes your authenticity.
13:28
Stay who you are.
13:29
We've been taught this whole mirroring thing.
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They're in this quadrant, they're that kind of person you have to adapt to them.
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That's too much work and energy.
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Just stay centered, stay relaxed, focus on them and they'll adapt to you.
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How do we deal with the nerves?
13:45
What do you mean?
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Nerves of being rejected.
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Well, that's part of the mindset shift when you realize that the rejection comes from
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you.
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It just doesn't happen when you show up.
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Your approach triggers it.
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When you say hi, my name is on with that's triggering resistance.
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Your goal is to remove resistance before it occurs.
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This is your responsibility to learn how to stop the rejection.
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Not just deal with it.
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How much then are we talking about, okay, so there's a lot of my old sales training DNA coming
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in my head here like whoever asks the questions controls the conversation.
14:25
What do you say to that?
14:26
That's probably true.
14:27
Okay.
14:28
All right.
14:29
That's probably true.
14:30
Ask good questions.
14:31
Yeah.
14:32
So I'm trying to make sure I present the questions in the context of your special skill set
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because what's coming up for me again is this trust thing.
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We all know it's a big, and we have much less trust today than we did 10 years ago.
14:47
That's for sure.
14:48
We have much more resistance.
14:49
We have much more.
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If I see a call coming in and I don't recognize, you don't answer.
14:56
But you're dealing with the point of when you're actually finally getting able to speak
14:58
to somebody, what do you say?
15:01
How do you say it and things like that?
15:03
So what about scripting?
15:05
What do you mean about scripting?
15:07
You believe in scripting?
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Having a script or talk track is useful.
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Well, I believe in having a language that connects with people.
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I don't think you have to have a talk track that is exactly every single time the same way.
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There are certain phrases you have to have for sure, like I'm hoping it can help me out
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for a moment.
15:23
Are these like any type of phrases or what?
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They're just normal talking to people.
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It's not like contrived and set up to say it.
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It's like just be yourself.
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People are seeking human connection, even your customer, your market, and the problem is
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they're so wound up and teed up to protect themselves from those calls that they can't
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be themselves even if they wanted to.
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So your job is to bring that wall down and connect at a deep level.
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How do you do that?
15:55
How do you let go of all that conditioning of get yourself ready for the fight and get
16:02
on that call and make that call and push your way through and just come down a couple
16:07
notches and learn how to connect with people at their level?
16:11
All right.
16:13
All right.
16:14
So I'm trying to put myself in that situation.
16:16
I'm thinking through it of, you know, but it's difficult, right?
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I mean, do you have to exercise because I'm thinking to myself, well, it's an interruption.
16:25
A, B, they don't know me.
16:27
This is all this is all mindset stuff.
16:28
I know this is all my own BS probably piling in my head, but I'm also trying to think
16:32
through the list.
16:33
Let's do an example.
16:34
Let's do an example.
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You can kind of see the difference between A and B, right?
16:38
So let's say I have a first call with somebody over the phone and the first conversation
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calls going well, good chemistry, could be good fit.
16:45
You're excited about it and the call kind of comes to an end normally in sales.
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We say stuff like, Hey, how about we go to next step?
16:53
How about we meet up?
16:54
How about we sign?
16:55
How about we do demo?
16:56
We were designed to move things to a next step.
16:59
We sense an opportunity, but what happens if you attempt to move somebody forward and
17:03
then it ready yet early in the process, what do you break right there with them?
17:07
Yeah, trust.
17:08
It's resistance.
17:09
Exactly.
17:10
So same scenario, our mindset, our language and our approach, calls going well, good chemistry,
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first call, looks really good.
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You're excited.
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Call comes to a close.
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Ryan saying, Hey, how about we move forward?
17:22
Well, what we say instead is this.
17:24
We say, where do you think we should go from here?
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Well, I love that you're just like being slowly intentional like that.
17:36
Where do you think we should?
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And of course, what you're saying is, say it the way you would say it.
17:41
Take the pressure off your mouth.
17:43
New Yorkers aren't going to go where would you, you know what I mean?
17:46
New Yorkers are going to go.
17:47
So where should we go next?
17:48
What do you think?
17:49
Right?
17:50
Be yourself was what you started with.
17:52
Yeah, don't change who you are, but be aware of yourself.
17:57
Be aware of how you're coming across the people and tone it down a level.
18:04
So you understand how you're being reacted to and your perception.
18:07
I've got a lot of New Yorkers who made us a little bit of adjustment on their speed
18:11
and a little more come about things when they talk to people now because they realize
18:15
whether they come across of other people gives the wrong impression of who they really
18:19
are.
18:20
Right.
18:21
Right.
18:22
So it's an awareness level of your own triggers that cause other people to resist you.
18:27
And that's a whole level of, whoa, I don't realize I was doing this.
18:32
What if their response to your question of where do you think we should go next isn't
18:36
what you wanted?
18:37
Well, I'll tell you what usually happens is this.
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When you say to somebody, where do you think we should go from here?
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Like that tone, they're usually in a state of shock because they can't believe someone
18:54
to actually ask them what they want to do.
18:56
It's unheard of.
18:57
They're not used to this.
18:58
It's like it's so foreign to them because we're so used to being pulled down the next
19:02
step.
19:03
And then they got to go, well, I've got one more question or what about this or how
19:09
about we move forward on their own?
19:12
They come out and start moving things forward and you're like, whoa, what just happened?
19:17
They're the ones moving the ball forward that me trying to do it.
19:20
How does that work?
19:21
It's like the magic moment when you start letting go and you give them a space.
19:25
Yeah.
19:26
And you mentioned this earlier, being willing to let go of the sale.
19:29
So if say if their response is, you know what, I need to think about it or it's, you
19:33
know, not yes, you need to be okay with that.
19:36
Well, yeah.
19:37
And I've got answers for that too, by the way.
19:40
So when they say, I want to think about it, the first thing you're going to say is this,
19:44
you're going to say, that's not a problem.
19:50
Take the pressure off, maybe.
19:53
Always take the pressure out.
19:55
If you can't see it and you can't feel it, you're part of the problem.
20:01
It's your responsibility to be aware of the wall going up.
20:05
Your job is to bring the wall down all the time by diffusing, diffusing, diffusing.
20:11
So when I said, that's not a problem.
20:14
He's going, huh?
20:15
He's not going to fight me on this.
20:17
This is, this is strange.
20:19
Right.
20:20
I like this guy.
20:21
He's not.
20:22
See, you've got to change the perception of you by your approach.
20:26
You can't just show up and do your thing unless you want to play the numbers again and
20:30
get killed, chasing these people and being feeling dehumanized.
20:33
I mean, it's really a horrible process.
20:34
So unless you're aware of how you're coming across, you'll be playing the numbers again
20:39
forever.
20:40
All right.
20:41
Let's carry that out one step further.
20:43
That's not a problem.
20:44
That's not a problem.
20:46
I'm happy for you to think about whatever you like, no problem at all.
20:53
Is there anything at all that I'm missing on my end that you may need or you didn't feel
20:59
comfortable with the long way?
21:01
Wow.
21:02
Wow.
21:03
That's good.
21:04
See, that's, that's an example of dialogging.
21:07
See, because with objections, we're conditioned by the old sales gurus to fight or fight,
21:13
either overcome it or bail back.
21:15
That's what we've talked to do.
21:16
In our world, we don't fight or fight.
21:19
We don't overcome objection.
21:20
We defuse it and re-engage again to preserve the relationship, you see?
21:25
Mm-hmm.
21:26
Mm-hmm.
21:27
Well, what I love about that is you're going to get information that's helpful to, because
21:31
they're not ready to move to that next step, whatever it is.
21:33
But by doing that, they'll, the assumption is they'll tell you.
21:37
Yeah, your goal is to get to the truth of what's on their mind and not the sale.
21:42
There is no sale until you get the truth of the people and they feel they can tell you
21:46
what everything.
21:47
Otherwise, you're just, you're in what I call hope in mode where you kind of hope it's
21:52
going to work out.
21:53
If you just keep going and just keep going, just keep going.
21:57
Mm-hmm.
21:59
I've written down something in preparing for this that you talk about as well, which
22:03
is sales is lost at hello.
22:07
And we're a little bit kind of dancing around this.
22:09
I think we're a little bit beyond hello, which is great.
22:12
I think we've covered a lot of ground so far.
22:14
But how can, what do you mean by that?
22:15
Well, what I mean by that is that when you begin the conversation with someone, how you
22:23
start the conversation will determine how well it goes at the end.
22:28
So I'll give you an example.
22:29
So my one call sale book that I'm working on, I talked about this whole Dr. Patient
22:35
Framework model where when you have a first call with somebody, assuming it's scheduled
22:39
and you show up, normally what people do in selling is they attempt to build a relationship
22:46
with someone.
22:48
We're taught to do things like, hey, how's it going?
22:51
Nice to meet you.
22:52
Were you from New York?
22:53
Really?
22:54
What do you see?
22:55
We're used to, to like, chunking it up with people because we think if they socially
23:02
like us, well, then we have a better chance of making that sale.
23:07
Well I discovered that relationship building and trust building are mutually exclusive.
23:12
When I tell my clients is this, I say stop building relations with people, pre sale.
23:20
Do it post sale, not pre sale.
23:23
Many you start chiming it up and mixing the social norms and business norms that elongates
23:28
everything.
23:30
It blends it all out and no longer do you have a process you can move them forward with
23:34
like you would like, let's say you would go see a doctor, all right?
23:37
They don't say, they don't try to become your friend because they know if they start doing
23:43
that, that eliminates their authority for you to comply with their requests.
23:47
So they say to you, what has it hurt?
23:50
And you say my shoulder.
23:51
And he says, let me take a look.
23:52
Right there.
23:53
Oh man.
23:54
I think we get an x-ray right away so we can figure out what the problem is and we can then
23:58
figure out what the prescription is going to be and you're like, okay, doctor, you go
24:02
to the x-ray, he throws it on the screen, he says, you have a black spot right there.
24:07
That's the problem.
24:08
What's going on is this and this and this and he's like, you're like, wow, finally, someone
24:13
has to understand what my problem is, then you write your prescription right and you walk
24:17
out the door before you go to your car, you go to the front desk and you pay.
24:22
You didn't pay him to solve your problem.
24:24
You paid him to diagnose your problem.
24:26
Okay.
24:27
Now the way he did that, bedside manner, but diagnosing the problem is trust building.
24:33
Not the whole fake relationship thing because in many cases, they don't want to become your
24:37
friend.
24:38
They know it's fake anyways, they just want their problem solved.
24:41
But what do we do?
24:42
Hey, how's it going?
24:43
They're like, oh god, rolling their eyes on the back of their head, going, okay, I'm
24:47
going to go for the whole cycle of this guy right now.
24:49
Yeah.
24:50
I think that's a good example and I do like some elements of that.
24:54
If I play the other side of that coin a little bit in that and I know you recognize this,
25:00
but this is just talk this out is the doctor already has a certain amount of trust because
25:06
of the name because it says doctor because there's a degree on his wall and without doing
25:10
any research or any like online looking up or more often than not as you know, people
25:14
walk in.
25:15
They're like, just assumed trust and so they've got that going for them in our world.
25:20
Let's just take mortgage and real estate, right?
25:22
We don't have that.
25:23
As a matter of fact, we have distrust, right?
25:26
And so what I was thinking about when you're describing about, you know, separating the
25:29
relationship building from the trust building in today's world of social selling, air quotes,
25:36
how would you see that different?
25:38
Because what I see working is people able to build relationship over social that does
25:45
lead to trust.
25:46
So what are your comments around that?
25:47
Well, I think the relationship will come if you base it on a problem you're helping
25:52
your real estate agent solve.
25:54
Great.
25:55
So it's just relationship only.
25:57
Good luck with that one.
26:00
But if you are able to articulate what their issue is, as you can help them solve,
26:07
better than someone else, and you start there, then you back and everything else fine.
26:13
But if you're just like, hey, can we have a cup of coffee, we'd love to get to know
26:16
you better.
26:17
Hey, you know what I do?
26:18
I then you're going to just go to the cycle with them and I'll meet with you and you'll
26:23
chase them up.
26:24
But hey, you have a deal for me and like, man, this is tough.
26:28
Mm-hmm.
26:29
True.
26:30
Agreed.
26:31
Yep.
26:32
I'm 100% on board with that.
26:33
I agree.
26:34
Because it's oftentimes what I say to people is when it comes to content on social media, who
26:37
do you serve and what problems do you solve?
26:39
And I think that's the content answer is show up and solve problems.
26:42
That's how you do it.
26:43
Yeah.
26:44
Right.
26:45
I tell my clients all the time, fall out of love with your solution and fall in love
26:50
with your client's problems.
26:51
Mm-hmm.
26:52
Yeah.
26:53
Yeah.
26:54
That's good.
26:55
Yeah.
26:56
Most people don't highlight that.
26:57
What they do is they highlight what we do.
26:58
Let me tell you what I got.
26:59
I can do deals.
27:00
I got more.
27:01
I got.
27:02
Hey, I.
27:03
Welcome to 1980s selling.
27:04
Look what I got.
27:05
Look what I got.
27:06
I got better right there.
27:07
You can get the other guy over here.
27:08
See, we're so conditioned to rely on our solution as the way to make the sale that will
27:14
be commoditized yourself in world, we're living the world of commodization.
27:18
Everyone offers the same thing as you, you know, you're different.
27:21
So how do you differentiate?
27:23
Your sales approach, not your offering.
27:26
You have to treat them in an approach in a different way so they go, man, tell me about
27:31
him.
27:32
This feels right.
27:33
They're buying you an emotion first.
27:35
And if you don't connect that level, you're losing so much opportunity.
27:39
Yeah.
27:40
So how do you think sales has changed and how would you, how do you advise people to
27:44
show up considering social today?
27:47
Well, I think that the market has changed.
27:51
Prosper customers have changed in terms of what they're looking for.
27:57
They're shopping around.
28:00
They're looking for people they think they are until you get to my world.
28:05
When we flip, when we flip everything upside down, but the point is they're, he's seeking
28:11
missile trying to find people they can trust.
28:16
They're yearning for that and it's so hard for them to find it because everyone's
28:21
conditioned to sell the traditional away sales processes and all these things.
28:27
And so what hasn't changed is the sales approaches.
28:30
I'll give you an example.
28:32
I'll give you a fun example.
28:34
I'm going to ask all your listeners right now and viewers to remove one key phrase from
28:38
the vocabulary as of today and never, ever use it again.
28:42
And for those of you in sales for a long time, this might hurt just a bit.
28:46
I'm going to ask you all to never again use the phrase, follow up forever as of today.
28:54
All right.
28:55
And I bet if I asked your audience, how many of you use the word follow up the last
28:57
few weeks?
28:58
I'll probably get lots of hands going.
28:59
Yeah, I always call it follow up.
29:01
I'm emailing follow what's the only industry in the world that uses the word follow up?
29:06
Sales sales.
29:07
Sales.
29:08
Hi, I'm Connor follow up.
29:10
And they're like immediately connecting the stereotype.
29:12
There's a few more classic with number of the other ones.
29:15
I'm calling you to to to touch base.
29:18
Right.
29:19
Just checking in.
29:20
Check in.
29:21
How's the deal going?
29:22
Are you going to move forward in that mortgage rate?
29:23
Come on.
29:25
We're so conditioned to use this old language that associates with that stereotype.
29:30
That's what we're kind of caught up on this game.
29:32
So instead, our approach, here's what you say instead.
29:37
I'm just giving you a call to see if you have any feedback on our previous conversation.
29:46
And if feedback on the email I sent you, and if feedback on proposal I sent you, see
29:50
feedback's not going forward, feedback's going backwards away from the sale.
29:56
When you remove resistance away from the process, that engages people.
30:01
When you try and move them to a next step, their guard goes up and then other being played.
30:07
Hmm.
30:08
Yeah, I'm taking that on emotionally, just like processing it.
30:12
It takes a while because we're so conditioned to move things forward.
30:19
We think if we don't go to the next step, it's over.
30:23
But what I realize is you have to engage that empty space and understand what's in the
30:30
middle of that.
30:31
There's an invisible river of pressure that flows underneath every sales chat you have
30:38
with someone.
30:39
And unless you can see it and know how to remove it, you'll always be what I call at the service
30:45
level with people.
30:46
You'll never go below the expert with you and tell you the truth.
30:49
They'll always play the game with you.
30:50
Give it just enough what you want to hear.
30:52
And then you'll qualify them.
30:54
Then you move them forward because you're trained that way.
30:57
See our folks are trained not to move people forward.
31:02
And it would sound totally nuts because you're like, what do you mean?
31:05
The sales right there, what do you mean not moving forward?
31:08
We discovered when you don't attempt to move people forward with pressure on them suddenly
31:13
and you open up the conversation about their issues and truth, they on their own say,
31:19
how do we move forward?
31:21
You have to let go of that tight control where you think you might lose it.
31:28
If you don't slow things down, that's our biggest fear.
31:31
We're like, if I slow things down, I'm already I might lose a sale.
31:34
I'm like, I got to keep things going.
31:36
The momentum, the energy, I got to be enthusiastic.
31:41
We're still carrying that, ran from the 80s and it's killing us.
31:46
How do you know then if you've done enough to let go?
31:53
Well, you say things like this.
31:55
Where do you think we should go from here?
31:58
Once again, back to that and if something's missing with that, they'll say it, they'll
32:04
say, well, I was curious, what about that?
32:06
Or how does that work?
32:07
Or see, when you said to somebody, where do you think we should go from here?
32:14
That gives them permission to be vulnerable to tell you the truth.
32:19
See, we don't give them any space, we don't allow them to tell the truth because they know
32:23
it's a game.
32:24
They're just giving us just enough to chew on and then we just take it and run.
32:28
We qualify them and we're off to the next step.
32:31
But there's no trust being created at all.
32:33
We miss the whole bottom layer, especially now with the way the world's changed.
32:37
If you're still doing that old model, you're losing so much opportunity on the table.
32:42
You've left there because no one ever taught you how to build trusted people and let go
32:45
of your framework.
32:50
It's a radical shift, I know.
32:51
Yeah, no, I like it.
32:52
It's refreshing.
32:53
It's different.
32:55
It's treating other people as an equal as you're not solely.
32:59
If you really just, if you can have that mindset, I'm just trying to, I'm here to help.
33:04
I'm here to serve, which I know a lot of say, they're not a prospect, they're a human
33:08
being.
33:09
Yeah.
33:10
And my black belt students, the one that looked me for a long time, they're more advanced.
33:14
See, their mindset now is we're probably not a fit at hello.
33:22
So imagine how detached they are from the end goal when their brain goes, we're probably
33:27
not a fit, but let's have a chat anyways and see where I.
33:30
They're so present with people, they're just right there.
33:34
They have neck and no assumptions, no next steps, they're, they're diagnosed in the
33:38
problem.
33:39
They're helping the person understand that they understand them better than themselves.
33:44
And they're asking this question.
33:45
They say, is this a priority for you to address and solve once and for all?
33:51
Or are you happy to live with it and not before I'm okay either way?
33:54
Like they're saying, I'm not here for the sale at all.
33:58
It's your responsibility to decide if you want to solve the problem or not.
34:01
It's all about the problem, not the prescription.
34:04
See, in sales, it's about the prescription.
34:06
Let me show you what I got.
34:08
See, doctors will go to jail if they did that.
34:10
They can't write a prescription first before a diagnosis.
34:13
They go to, it's not practice, but what do we do?
34:16
The minute we qualify someone and there's an opportunity, our instinct goes, let me show
34:23
them what I got.
34:24
Because I can help these people.
34:25
I can, I can help them if you can just see what I have.
34:28
That's our voice back here going next step, next step, next step.
34:32
And that's where you lose it all right there.
34:34
How would you deal with objections?
34:37
For instance, let me set this up is obviously in the mortgage space, let's say, oftentimes,
34:42
if there isn't any type of connection prior, let's say, it's a referral.
34:46
All right, so you're the mortgage broker, I'm the client.
34:49
I got referred by Sally at remax and hey, call Ari, he's my loan officer.
34:54
Okay, cool.
34:55
Hey, Ari, what's up?
34:56
Sally said, hey, what's your rate?
34:58
You know, and they come at you with their agenda right away, like, how do you respond
35:02
to that?
35:03
My favorite.
35:04
It's my favorite.
35:05
So, so we're used to that because we know they come with their own plan.
35:11
They think they're shopping mall, they think they're shopping around.
35:15
Right.
35:16
Now, but I don't realize when they enter our world, which is people who trained up by
35:18
us, they're entering our clinic, our doctor's office, not, not the shopping mall.
35:23
They open the wrong door by accident.
35:26
Is this a wrong door, like in Casino or which door is this?
35:33
It says shopping mall, but they open that doctor door and they end up in our clinic.
35:38
Right.
35:39
They're sitting on the table there and I got a white jacket on, they just don't realize
35:42
that.
35:43
Then they're like, so that's the metaphor.
35:46
But we have languaging to turn things back to our plan, which is to help them see what
35:52
really is best for them because we know the customer themselves doesn't know what they
35:56
ask you.
35:57
They may know what they want, but they don't know what they ask you need.
35:59
We know that as a fact.
36:00
Yeah.
36:01
Well, they're also trained what, like, especially in the mortgage, they're trained to
36:04
just ask what's the interest rate.
36:05
So they don't even know why, necessarily, they're exactly what I should ask.
36:09
I'm a robot.
36:10
So let's take your scenario.
36:11
Someone says, what's the rate?
36:12
Yeah.
36:13
I got her name from John.
36:14
Great.
36:15
How much you charge?
36:16
What's the rate?
36:17
Right.
36:19
Right.
36:20
So what I'd say is this in our approach, we say, I'll be happy to walk you through all
36:26
the different rates, depending on each situation in your scenario that you have.
36:32
But would it be, would you be open to us, take a step back for a moment and you're walking
36:36
me through a situation.
36:38
Tell me what you have in mind.
36:39
What you're looking at, what property you're trying to get, what you're at, financial
36:41
wise.
36:42
I understand if you're working for yourself.
36:43
Let me have an understanding your situation better, then I can come back to the better
36:47
plan.
36:48
I'll be there with you.
36:49
Would you be okay with that?
36:50
Yeah.
36:51
Now you're like, they're like, oh, that was a dumb question I should have been smarter
36:54
about.
36:55
See, now you're making them realize that was, their assumption was wrong.
36:59
That makes no sense.
37:00
I can't give you a number until I understand your context first.
37:04
Yeah.
37:05
I think what's important to highlight here is there's more than one way to say that yours
37:11
is the more elegant versus what you just said there is.
37:15
You know, I can't give, let's just say my response was, look, I can't give you a number
37:19
until I know about your situation.
37:21
That response is two totally different feelings.
37:24
Yeah.
37:25
So I'd say, like you said, a little smoother.
37:27
I'd say I'd be happy walking through all the options that we have available depending
37:33
on your situation.
37:34
Yeah.
37:35
Now they're like, oh, that makes sense.
37:38
Would you be open to us taking a step back for a moment, walk me through a situation,
37:43
give me the big picture where you're at.
37:45
So we can go from there, would that be okay with you?
37:48
See, I've always thought of sales and especially the most, some of the most successful sales people,
37:53
you know, wordsmiths, like language is important, right?
37:58
Structures, syntax, tone, and I think, you know, too much viewpoint about like the hunt
38:05
is we just want to hunt and kill like we, we bypass the art and the elegance, if you
38:11
will, of communicating with another human being and we just want to freaking close the sale.
38:16
You just summarized the problem of millions of people right now, we're out there trying
38:19
to sell.
38:21
Hmm.
38:22
All right.
38:23
So how training ourselves to slow down, is that easy?
38:28
No, because we're so conditioned to be wired up and teed up to get ready for the fight.
38:33
See, we go into our jobs with the sales armor on, we're, we're getting ready for the
38:38
battle.
38:39
See, we leave home with our kids in our, in our, who we, we're relaxed.
38:43
Let me go to work.
38:44
We're like, all right, where's the phone number?
38:46
Where's the phone?
38:47
I'm getting ready because I know it's coming as, that's gone, man.
38:51
That's what, that's the state of the state of what's going on.
38:56
So you have to reset your thinking and shift your approach and enter the conversation
39:04
in a way where you don't create any bullets coming your way.
39:07
You're the one creating it, they don't just exist out there, you're the problem.
39:12
I'm telling my clients, you've got to make the change and start again and learn how
39:17
to sell with trucks.
39:19
The world has changed, if you don't catch up now, you're going to be in a lot of pain
39:24
soon.
39:25
Hmm.
39:26
Yeah, well, at a minimum, don't you want to increase your conversion rates, get better
39:30
referrals?
39:31
Half the irony of it all, the irony of it all is when you can use this approach, you double
39:36
your conversion rates, your sales, I tell my clients, my bar for you is this.
39:43
You should be getting a hundred percent conversion of everyone who's qualified, it comes
39:48
in your funnel.
39:50
If you're not doing that, you're the problem because what, think about it, they got a problem,
39:57
you got a solution, right?
39:59
Straight line of sight.
40:01
What's in the middle of that?
40:03
You, messing it all up with the report and how's it going and follow up and sure report,
40:11
like your approach is so archaic, all they want, all they want someone making tries,
40:19
Jesus, exactly, right?
40:23
And we're so busy trying to just move the thing forward, close the deal instead of just
40:27
connect with another human being and solve problems.
40:31
You, that was beautiful what you just said.
40:33
That's exactly what I'm talking about here.
40:34
We just got to let go of the game, unlock it as I call it and just learn how to connect
40:42
with people.
40:43
Man, we lost that art, you know, we've got to work and now we're all teed up, we're
40:47
on LinkedIn, selling to people like, we don't know how to communicate anymore and this
40:52
is a lost art and I'm bringing it back a bit different 20 years, it's the same thing
40:56
but I've refined it now to, to the nth degree.
40:58
But once you own this and you get this, you never go back again.
41:02
You know, it's, it's funny, you mentioned LinkedIn because that brought up a bunch of,
41:05
I'm sure you get spammed on LinkedIn and all kinds of like, I'm just thinking of the
41:11
thread in my emails of like podcast guests, who would, this would be a grape and it's all
41:16
about them.
41:18
There's not a single question.
41:19
Right.
41:20
We've got a single invitation to, to a dialogue.
41:23
It's all just, let me push all this crap over in your lap and then two days later, hey,
41:30
you didn't respond, you know, it's like, well, because you're an initial message sucked
41:34
and had nothing to do with me.
41:37
So that's a great example of taking the old approach and shoving it down to new medium.
41:43
Right.
41:44
Right.
41:45
Which by the way we wrap up, there's one point I'm looking at your book here with how
41:48
to use email sales calls without falling into the spam trap.
41:52
Tell me about that.
41:54
Well, the, the, the language that we talk about over the phone can also be adapted to emails
41:59
as well and written communication even on LinkedIn.
42:02
The words that you're using that, the subject lines, how you write things to people, you
42:06
be surprised right now.
42:07
If I asked your audience to show me their emails, I'd probably see in there, hi, I'm writing
42:10
it to follow up, give me a call like it's all still translated to different mediums.
42:17
So there's different language you could use in your email written communication, even
42:21
on LinkedIn that connects you to people without you starting with talking about yourself.
42:26
Right.
42:27
Right.
42:28
Interesting.
42:29
Okay.
42:30
Cool, man.
42:31
This has been awesome.
42:32
And what I love about this is, now, talk about that.
42:33
It's about you knowing and advance what the core issues are that you solve for your market
42:40
and entering the conversation around their problems.
42:43
Yes.
42:45
There's, there's so much in here though, like we've talked about so far, like letting
42:49
go of the sale, being okay, like not getting the sale, just showing up and being you.
42:55
You know, I think, do you agree that sales is art and science?
42:58
I don't know if it's science or say, but it's just being authentic and being about them.
43:07
I've got this for, look, I, my son, Toby, I wrote a book about him called Lessons from
43:10
Toby.
43:11
He was born with, he has Down syndrome.
43:13
When he was born, we were told this, we're sure we wouldn't know what's meant to our lives.
43:17
We realized what he'd give to on our hands.
43:19
If you know someone that has Down syndrome, you know how they are, they're beautiful people,
43:22
they're full of love, they're transparent, they have no hidden agenda, man, they're just
43:26
who they are.
43:27
And I said to myself, man, if we could just help people be like that, he's the role model.
43:32
Why can't, why do we have these layers on top of us every single day at work and trying
43:36
to get things happening?
43:37
We're fighting the path of most resistance.
43:40
And I'm thinking to myself, I got to help people be like Toby.
43:45
Like that's what I teach people to do is know how to connect at a deep level fast with
43:49
people.
43:50
So they stop playing the game with you, you can get the truth.
43:52
And that's when all the magic happens.
43:55
And you think almost anybody can do that?
43:58
If they're open minded, they want to fall on their sword and say, yeah, I guess our
44:02
lover again, learn from scratch, yes.
44:04
But if you're going to fight this thing, go, hey, man, I've been this for 30 years, I
44:07
don't know what I'm doing already.
44:08
What's this going to help?
44:09
Then you're not going to, you're stuck.
44:11
Yeah.
44:12
For sure.
44:13
Well, I think at a minimum, people need to start connecting with you and following you.
44:17
So why don't we tell them what resources you've got?
44:20
You've got a book.
44:21
It's available on Amazon, it's available on your website.
44:23
What is your website address?
44:25
Unlock the game.com.
44:26
I've got my book there, Unlock the Sales Game.
44:28
I got a free master class there.
44:30
You can see this being taught live.
44:32
And of course, you can opt in for that.
44:34
If you're brave enough, you can step up for a consultation with myself or my team.
44:40
And see what it's like not to be sold.
44:43
It's a fun experience.
44:46
Just experience that in itself, and then we can talk to you about your situation.
44:50
Or I do a show once a month on LinkedIn called Stump the Guru.
44:53
Oh, really?
44:54
Yeah.
44:55
You can take questions.
44:57
Jump on live and throw me your toughest bullets.
45:01
Your biggest challenge is you can't solve on your own.
45:04
And let's see if it answers for you if you live.
45:05
Wow.
45:06
That's cool.
45:07
Well, all right.
45:08
Well, make sure we put links to all this in the show notes, your website, your LinkedIn.
45:11
I definitely encourage anybody listening to engage.
45:14
Like I said, at the start of this, I have originally saw you 15 plus years ago on the Dan Kennedy
45:20
stages and was very impressed by that.
45:22
And you know, just your longevity should speak right to a lot of people in terms of your
45:28
ability to help people succeed with sales.
45:30
So I appreciate you getting up and early, what most people don't know is you're in Australia.
45:34
And like 6am time for you, man.
45:36
So thank you so much for being here.
45:37
Thanks for having me.
45:38
Appreciate it.
45:39
You bet.
45:40
Hey, thanks for tuning into this episode of the Mortgage Marketing Radio podcast.
45:42
I hope you enjoyed it.
45:44
And remember, if you like this episode, please leave us a review that helps us reach more
45:48
people and bring more good value and content to you, our listeners.
45:52
And then don't forget, if you are a loan officer who wants more agent referrals in less
45:58
time, be sure to check out the Mortgage Marketing Pro membership at mortgagemarketing.pro
46:05
and learn more about our turnkey system of agent classes that puts you front and center
46:10
of your local real estate agents, attracting agents instead of chasing them and getting
46:15
agent referrals like clockwork every single month, just like Kerry Cobb, who her first year
46:22
in the business with closing over 75 loans achieved 40% of those 75 loans exclusively
46:28
from agent classes.
46:30
And if you want to learn how she did it, now you can do it too.
46:33
Once again, go to Mortgage Marketing.pro and I'll see you over there.
46:37
Thanks for listening.
46:38
Bye for now.
46:39
Hey, guys, what's up real quick?
46:47
You've heard about the Mortgage Marketing Pro membership before and I just want to quickly
46:50
remind you of that you're in a place in your business where you simply need more purchased
46:54
loans.
46:55
You need to fill your pipeline with purchase business.
46:57
Let's just face it, agents are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase
47:02
business for you.
47:03
Well, good news.
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Our Mortgage Marketing Pro membership helps loan officers like you close more loans without
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And as an extra bonus for limited time, for all new members, you'll get access to a database
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So what are you waiting for?
48:11
You can check out more at mortgagedmarketing.pro, see more of the success stories there.
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And if you feel compelled to do so, book a call, we'll have a chat, we'll see if it's
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48:20
Don't miss out on this opportunity to take your mortgage business to the next level right
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48:25
Head over to mortgagedmarketing.pro.