Latest / Auto Collabs / Digital, Data-Driven, Different with Lucas Neiderer

Transcript

Digital, Data-Driven, Different with Lucas Neiderer · Auto Collabs

• 0:00
  You know what one of the hardest things about being a podcaster is? Ever Yeah The stressing and anxiety over getting your guest's name correct. Oof. Phew. It's intense.
• 0:17
  Only if you don't ask. Not every- That's your pre-production's bad... name is John Smith.
• 0:22
  What, what's really awkward is that most podcasters have some sort of outreach company that's like, "We love your book, and we've watched all your YouTube videos. Will you please join us on the pod?"
• 0:32
  And then you get to the pod and the podcaster has no clue how to pronounce their name. No clue. Yeah. And he's like, "So tell me, uh, what, what you do." [laughs] I've had that. Mick-A-El Schulz. Join- Mick-A-El.
• 0:43
  He- Yon Smythe. "Actually, it's John Smith." [laughs] It's like, "Yeah, right." Oh, today we're hanging out with a Lucas Neiderer. I'm like 98.9% positive that I said that correctly. Nailed it.
• 0:58
  Uh, it's about as good as most people say my name, so. Well, it's either Here or Neiderer. [laughs] Oh, now we're gonna, now we're gonna go there. Look, Lucas, so I- Awesome.
• 1:08
  [laughs] You, you guys, you guys probably don't know Lucas as well, but he's, he's part of the Dolan group.
• 1:14
  And these cats, they're like a smaller group, nothing like huge, but they're one of those ones where, like, you just have to pay attention because the innovation and the way that they do marketing and the way that they perceive brand and all of that is, like, top shelf.
• 1:31
  Like, most public groups actually can't compete with that, probably just 'cause they're so nimble. They got a couple guys and gals on staff that are just really, really thinking forward. Um, so I always...
• 1:42
  I, like, I got to sit in a, in a cab with him, uh, in Phoenix one time and I was like, "Dude, why are you... It's, like, we're just going to dinner, man. You gotta do all that smart stuff like that going to dinner?"
• 1:52
  [laughs] You know? Yeah. Right. [laughs] Oh, well, that's awesome. I can't wait to meet him and, uh, can't wait for us to introduce you to him here on Auto Collabs. Please enjoy this episode with Lucas Neiderer.
• 2:07
  All right, Lucas, you're a busy man. Thank you for spending some time with us today. Yeah, thanks so much for having me. Good to see you guys. So, so you're in Reno, correct? Yes.
• 2:17
  Dealership's based out of Reno, but I actually live in Denver. That's, that's what I was asking- Yeah... 'cause I knew you were remote. [laughs] So- Yep... how, so let's, the most important question- Start there.
• 2:26
  Start there. I think that is, that's a, an unusual scenario in the auto industry. So tell us a little bit about how it works. Like, what, what is your scope of responsibility within the organization?
• 2:37
  How do you make Denver, Reno work? Yeah. So I'm the director of marketing for the group, and I lived in Reno for about three years and, right before COVID happened. COVID happened, um, was in day-to-day, loved it.
• 2:50
  And during that time, you know, just an isolating time during COVID, we had two young little girls, we had family and friends in Denver. And my wife and I were like, "We, we really wanna get back to some community."
• 3:00
  Um, so I went back to the owners and said, "I love you guys. I don't wanna leave, but I gotta do this for my family and my family's gonna come first. Um, but I love you so much."
• 3:09
  And they were so great, and they said, "Look, we trust you. We love you. We'll f- we'll find a way to figure this out."
• 3:14
  So it's been about two and a half years now, um, that we did it, and I think that's just a testament to the leadership that we have at our group, and willing to try new things and explore, and they're just unbelievable people, and, um, believe in their employees, which is amazing.
• 3:27
  So yeah, so right now I travel in and out about every other week for, uh, two or three days, which is great. So I'm in the stores meeting with everyone.
• 3:34
  And, um, yeah, as I'm remote, I'm working on a slew of things, from strategy with our director of innovation to, uh, websites to social media.
• 3:44
  We have a team boots on the ground, so it's kind of a slew of those things, um, that I'm doing remote. And then when I'm in the stores, uh, working with the dealerships directly. Very cool. Hold up.
• 3:53
  Your organization has a director of innovation? Innovation. Yeah. [laughs] Call him in. Yeah. Call in the recruiter. Yeah. We're gonna have a conversation. So what is...
• 4:03
  Okay, what is it like to work, because the director of innovation, that's a, that's an incredible title. And having a director of marketing that's remote, like,
• 4:12
  that, that has to be the incubator for some really, really cool brainchild work of, of effort into the group. What are, what are some of the things that come out of that little, like, cohort? Yeah.
• 4:26
  So, uh, the gentleman who's our director of innovation, Stefan Precup, I don't know if you guys are familiar with him. Um, he's done a ton in the industry. I know Stefan. Yeah. And just an incredible human being.
• 4:35
  So when I came on the group, I came from Toyota Corporate, uh, I was a rep, and he, uh, was the director of marketing at the time, and basically took me under his wing.
• 4:43
  Every day for, you know, two, three years straight, we spent all day together, just him teaching me philosophies of the group and w- how we think and all those different things.
• 4:51
  And then he moved on to this, uh, director of innovation, and then I stepped into the director of marketing role. So yeah, there's a lot of things that come from that.
• 4:58
  Um, I mean, really anything from remote, uh, purchase teams that, you know, about 10% of our deals go through our remote purchase team, where people can buy, uh, 100% online or facilitate any piece of that remotely, to, um, full-on buying center.
• 5:11
  We had a buying center before, but the next evolution of that to that leading into some of the reconditioning center pieces to it, um, for, uh, that part of the business, to
• 5:21
  just the way we think about the business is always how can we challenge the status quo? That's one thing that our, our ownership has always pushed. How can we...
• 5:28
  Let's not just do something because we've always done it that way. So, um, we have a great executive team and leadership team, and we spend tons of time thinking about how we can do things differently.
• 5:37
  And, um, but yeah, it's, it's a fun, amazing environment I'm super fortunate to be a part of. So Stefan and his mind is incredible, so we have some great conversations.
• 5:46
  Well, there's definitely no lack of doing things differently these days, especially in the marketing world.
• 5:51
  Um, you coming from corporate and just the way you're wired is much, is like this merger of two worlds between brand level thinking and, like, practical, tactical data level thinking.
• 6:03
  And so we hear all this talk about CDPs over the last 12 months, and my favorite topic seems to be getting, like, swept under the rug. It was about brand for a while, now it's about CDPs. But the two live together.
• 6:14
  Right. And, uh, how do you start to reconcile all that? Because-You, you have a very, your group, the pieces you produce, like you spend a lot of time thinking like, "How do we keep the brand out front?
• 6:24
  How do we keep the feeling out front?" So how are you reconciling everything in these days? Yeah. It's, um, it's a challenge for sure, but I think it's exciting.
• 6:32
  And, um, CDPs are all the hot rage, like DR and subscription before and all those things.
• 6:37
  But what I love about the, the concept with CDPs is how do we take this brand message and this authentic connection with our customers and leverage the data to connect with them one-on-one and serve them something that's relevant?
• 6:50
  That's something we've been always talking about for years in branding, but how do we leverage the data to do that and do that ex- at scale?
• 6:56
  And I haven't found the perfect solution, but that's where my head's at, and the things that we're, we're looking at is who are the partners out there? What does this look like?
• 7:03
  I mean, the, the hardest part is always the creative piece.
• 7:05
  How do we take things that match the data points creatively and can, hopefully with AI and, you know, some of the, um, new tools out there, we can do that more effectively. But I think when we do that and we...
• 7:18
  People, the great marketing isn't felt. We always say that within our team.
• 7:22
  And if we can find ways to connect with people in an authentic way that's relevant to them, they're gonna wanna choose us 'cause they're like, "Man, whatever's going over there, that's amazing.
• 7:29
  I wanna be a part of that." And that's what we're really trying to drive within our group, so. Can you say that... You said, did you say great marketing isn't felt? Yes. What do you mean by that?
• 7:39
  Can you explain, like, like tease that out a little bit. Yeah, so we don't want someone to come on and say, "Oh, okay, I just got served an ad. I felt like they were selling me something." When- Mm...
• 7:51
  we put a piece out that connects with someone emotionally and they say, "Oh, whoa, this is really interesting," or like it makes them laugh or smile or feeling, you know, "Oh man, makes my, my heart warm," when we can do something like that, it, they don't feel like they're being sold a product, they feel like we're connecting with them on that emotional level.
• 8:10
  And I keep saying that, but I, I think there's something real to that.
• 8:13
  And I think w- we don't always hit, hit, uh, the nail on the head, but we've done a few examples where I think we've done that really well, where we've created some commercials that showcase families and, um, our employees and all these things that's like, "Whoa, this is, this is neat.
• 8:25
  It wasn't just you trying to sell me a car, it was you trying to tell a story." And, um, so we think when we do that, people don't feel like they're being sold.
• 8:34
  They feel like, oh, they're getting a better understanding of our brand and what we're trying to do. And I think that's really the big piece.
• 8:41
  When, when people don't feel like they're being sold, they don't feel that marketing. Um, they just see, see the brand and wanna be part of that, hopefully. Got you.
• 8:50
  There was a piece that, uh, your store, I don't know how many years ago it was, um, but it was about being closed on Sunday. It wasn't about any value proposition. Actually, it's kinda like the anti-value proposition.
• 9:01
  It was like, "Hey, there's one less day you can do business with us," [laughs] right? [laughs] Um, but, but tell, tell us about that piece and, and you know, I know it holds a special place in your heart.
• 9:10
  Um, so explain that and like what the feeling was going into it and what the result of, uh, was, of it was once you released it. Yeah. So this is probably one of my favorite pieces. I love it. And
• 9:22
  so this is a little bit after COVID. We're rolling in. The world was just a crazy place, you know, like where the general- Yeah...
• 9:27
  public's mind and emotions were, and it was just so many tensions, so many crazy things going on. And, um, again, our owners, they, they, I love the way they think, and they said, "Hey, how can we do this different?"
• 9:39
  And in Reno, we are open on Sundays, and they've been wanting to close for Sundays for a while, just from an operations perspective, give people an extra day off.
• 9:47
  So during COVID they said, "This is the perfect time to do this."
• 9:50
  And again, going back, they always wanna kinda challenge that status quo and think differently, and they said, "Okay, let's create a spot to promote this, but let's not... You know, that sounds crazy.
• 9:57
  Why are we gonna run an advertisement that says we're closed on Sundays?" [laughs] Um, but we're like, "We think there's something here."
• 10:03
  So what we did is we reached out to all of our employees and said, "Hey, if anyone has photos or videos of, you know, you with your family and how you spend your weekends or your days off with them- Oh, nice...
• 10:13
  we'd love to showcase it, uh, within a commercial." So we took, uh, all the footage is from our employees and it's actual employees of ours. We cut it together into a 30-second spot of people just hanging out.
• 10:25
  Um, great music to it, great tone, and it shows all these clips, and then at the very end it just says, "Closed on Sundays to celebrate family." And I think, again, that is that marketing isn't felt.
• 10:36
  It's just a great way to say, "Hey, we're gonna be closed on Sundays. Just FYI, be aware of that." But more than that, it's we're, we believe in what we say of, you know, our tagline is, "Get in and join the family."
• 10:45
  Uh, it's more than just a tagline. It's something that we believe and we're always gonna put our employees first.
• 10:50
  And um, you know, something I learned over the years is the customer experience will never exceed the employee experience, and I think that's something that our owners and our team really believe in.
• 11:03
  And, uh, again, when we can give them that extra day off, they can spend time with families, they can do, go do the things they love.
• 11:08
  When they are at work, they're gonna be so much more productive, and the customers are gonna feel that. Mm-hmm.
• 11:13
  Well, and I, I think the other thing that that does, right, is when people think of any industry that has, has m- maybe been like ostracized or, or, or that has a, a poor view, uh, like perception culturally- Yeah...
• 11:30
  people do less to humanize the people that are working in that industry, right? Yeah. All those, all of a sudden it's just like globally that industry is bad and those aren't pe- those aren't even people, right?
• 11:41
  Like- Yeah... no, they don't, they don't like hang out with people or have barbecues or anything like that. The minute you put those people in those scenarios, real life, probably shot on iPhone, right? Not,
• 11:53
  not all glamor and fancy. Romanticized, yeah. [laughs] Right? And, and it's like, no, these are real pe- you, you actually...
• 12:00
  The message is less actually about being closed on Sundays, and it's actually more about these are real people that you get to do business with.
• 12:07
  And I think that that's where, going back to the CDP conversation, and maybe you can talk a little bit about this, is it's, it's almost like that the, the, i- if the data... is used to enhance the relationship, right?
• 12:22
  To actually go deeper and say, "No, this is, this is not just one- a one-to-one ad, it's a one-to-one connection." Right. That's where you actually win in marrying data with communication, right?
• 12:37
  Whatever that communication medium would be. Um,
• 12:42
  so do you see that as, like, an end goal of, of it's not just, it's not just an ad serve, it's actually a conversation starter, and how are you starting to think about, like, taking some of those learnings you've had from, like, global ad sets into this one-on-one conversation?
• 12:59
  Yeah, great question. So my dream on this is to leverage the data, and let's say, okay, we see someone that, uh, is a female within, you know, let's say mid-30s, has two kids, and might be looking for a m- minivan.
• 13:16
  Let's say, like, a Sienna or something. In my ideal world is we'd be able to create a storyline of a mom jumping in a car, loading her kids in, throwing bags in the back with the door closing.
• 13:27
  Like, something that she is living and how they will be using this vehicle that's much more lifestyle and like, oh, man, I... Like, that aspirational, inspirational.
• 13:35
  Like, I can see myself doing that and, you know, haul my kids around or take them to school, or all these funny things too that are real that you encounter when you're have little kids.
• 13:43
  So I don't think it has to be super serious as well, like kids throwing fits or doing funny things. And now if we can take all those data points and say, "This is who this person is.
• 13:52
  These are the things that they're probably experiencing in their real life. Let's now communicate that to them," and they're gonna be like, "Oh, like, this is relevant to me.
• 14:02
  This, this, this speaks to me and is told in a story." So that's what I would love to do and build out that in a huge, um, huge scope. But again, the challenge is creatively that's a heavy, heavy lift. Always. Right.
• 14:16
  So- For sure...
• 14:18
  um, you know, I'm think- the things I've been thinking about are what are the things that we can focus on first, um, to connect with those kind of like main customers that already chose us or might wanna go somewhere else, and, um, continue to tell that story with whatever their data points are, are telling us.
• 14:34
  So that's just kind of my initial raw thoughts on it. But again, there's a, a ton of work there and what does the scale look like and how can we deliver on that. But I hope that answers. Yeah. No, it's...
• 14:45
  I'm telling you, the creative is always the hard part. Like, everybody thinks the data is so hard, but, like, data's spreadsheets, you know?
• 14:52
  As long as you can connect dots, but creating something that people want to, that they stay for- There you go. It's the second half of that sentence Right. Right. Creating something- Oh, we have creative.
• 15:03
  It automates it. It's like, well- [laughs] It is an image. It is a thing, [laughs] right? But- Yeah... how do you, how do you span the gap?
• 15:12
  You know, one of the conversations that always comes up when we talk about this, this balance or blend or va- even trying to assign value to good creative, good, thoughtful creative that connects.
• 15:25
  The question on the other side is, like, how do you measure the success? How do you measure whether or not that closed on Sunday's video moved the needle?
• 15:34
  How do you measure and justify spending more money on better creative? Um, you know, like, does it sell more cars, or how at least do you track that?
• 15:42
  So I'm curious to how, how you place value on it, how your owners place value on it, and how that conversation goes. That's another great question.
• 15:50
  So I don't think we do a great job of this, if I'm being completely candid. We don't have this, oh, we measure this and this.
• 15:55
  One thing that we have been looking at doing for a while is basically doing a brand study locally and going out and saying, "Our customers that live locally, what is your perception of our brand?
• 16:06
  Um, what do you think of? Do you know who we are?" All those things that we might assume or not assume and, and get feedback.
• 16:12
  And then running one of these campaigns and saying, "Let's do it for six months, nine months," and going back out and doing- Remeasure the brand lift. Yeah... exactly.
• 16:20
  And it's be like, "Hey, is this, is this moving the needle?" I think the second thing at the, the end of the day too is are we selling cars?
• 16:26
  Like, I hate to say that as the metric, but the question is- That's, but that's the ultimate metric It is. It's a business outcome, right? Yeah... it's the ultimate metric.
• 16:33
  [laughs] If, if we're doing all these things and our sales are declining, we're gonna have to, you know, switch gears a little bit here. So, um, again, I think we, we see a lot of that sentiment though
• 16:44
  as customers come in or from through the events that we sponsor and things that we're doing and people being like, "Man, I love what you guys are doing," or, "This is so great of, you know, how you guys are positioning," or, "My experience that's going on there."
• 16:53
  So we get a lot of that feedback, but I think, um, the kind of brand study is one thing that is top of mind that we're exploring.
• 17:01
  And then something that we used to do and kind of just like, oh, nah, like we're gonna stop for a little while, that we're actually gonna be rolling back out, is a post-buy survey. How did you hear about us?
• 17:11
  What did you think? Like, just capturing some of that raw data to hopefully inform us on, you know, was it the TV ads? Was it, you know, some of the websites- Right... they went to? Like, it seems so basic and so simple.
• 17:23
  Um, I mean, outside of Claravoy and all of those, we think those are gonna be good indicators for the people that are coming in and actually buying the cars from us.
• 17:30
  Yeah, and I think they are indicators, 'cause even if someone... Like, I think sometimes the fear is like, well, what if that's not the first thing they saw or the last thing they saw? Sure.
• 17:40
  It's at least the thing that was most relevant to them. Totally. Right? Great point. And I think that that's, that's a big trigger. You know, at least you can lean in...
• 17:47
  And maybe you don't stop something, but you lean into the thing where maybe everything, everyone- It mattered... it's, it's most relevant. Right. Right. Obviously, if they brought it up, it mattered to them. Yeah.
• 17:56
  Um, you know, one of the things that I think some of the best groups that do good brand content well, good creative well, is they tie everything back to, uh, an overall cost per car sold.
• 18:06
  And granted, there is no way, but, like, I mean, looping everything.
• 18:09
  I mean, and that includes employee salary that work in the creative department, or if you're gonna do, like, a charitable event, like, that gets in the budget, right?
• 18:16
  You have to get it all together because that number at the end is probably the least likely to mislead you. But boy, does that take a lot of coordination and discipline to get to the bottom of that. [laughs] It does.
• 18:26
  I, I'm excited. This is just, like, one super quick plug. Um, there's a new 20 group that I, I'm a part of, 20 M3, uh, marketing directors, and that's one thing that we're trying to solve as a group.
• 18:35
  We've had a lot of conversations. We had our first in-person meeting. This group's just launching. And was how can we create that baseline and tie that number into... cost per car sold.
• 18:45
  And what does that look like, and how can we create these benchmarks for the industry and, and some KPIs and whatnot? So, um, stay tuned on that.
• 18:52
  I think, uh, it's gonna be an exciting thing to go through and, um, see what we come up with, so. Yeah. I'm excited for that because that's a moving target. Like, the publics measure it this way- [laughs]...
• 19:02
  and the large groups measure it this way, and the single rooftops measure it this way, and the OEM wants your, you know, your budget sheet like this. [laughs] And so it's always...
• 19:10
  So everybody's like, "My cars per car, sold it," blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you're like- Yeah... "Yeah, but these guys over here measure it differently than you do over here." Yeah.
• 19:16
  So I, I do think that it's a good, it's a good measurement tool. Um- Yeah...
• 19:21
  you know, I always say, like, measure against yourself first and against ev- the rest of the industry second, because even 20 group numbers can lie.
• 19:29
  Um, but I, I do think that there's, there's, there's definitely some value in kind of understanding the baseline there. Um, because it, it speaks to, like, a mix of media attributes to a mix of sales, right? Yeah.
• 19:43
  And, and we just know, like, there's not a one-to-one because we're not e-com. It's not- Mm... click buy, right? There's no Instagram ad that can get you to a purchase. I mean, it, like, maybe, maybe at some point.
• 19:56
  I mean, you're doing, what, 10, you said 10%- Yeah... is online, which is higher than, h- higher than the average in the market, which is cl- still close to 3%. So kudos to that.
• 20:07
  Well, Lucas, I, I kind of stole the end of it there- [laughs]... but, uh, really appreciate the conversation with you. Had a ton of fun learning. Uh, we're gonna...
• 20:14
  I think everybody's, like, searching Sunday Dolan, right? [laughs] Yeah. Ad right now. Uh, maybe we'll link that up in the show notes as well. Uh, but Lucas, been a ton of fun.
• 20:24
  On behalf of all of us at Car, uh, at Auto Collabs, uh, thanks for coming on. Yeah. Thanks for having me, guys.
• 20:28
  And thanks for what you guys are doing and the conversations you're having, um, and just making our space such a better place. We, we really appreciate it. We're trying. Absolutely. So.
• 20:39
  You know, it's been a while since we've had a conversation about brand on the show. Mm.
• 20:46
  And so I'm so glad it went in that direction because I alm- I almost forgot that that's something we talk about intentionally around here. [laughs] Right?
• 20:54
  That's, like, everything all three of us talk about, yet we never get to talk about it because if we were the ones that used to talk about it kind of thing. All the time. Oh. Yeah, exactly. No, Lucas, they're dialed in.
• 21:04
  And, like, the fact that you, when he was like, "Oh, no, we created a whole commercial about being closed because we saw it as an opportunity to talk about more than just selling a car.
• 21:19
  Talk about how we love our people, how we care for the community, what we give back to our people, how our people are actually humans and want to go hang out with their families," that's a bold move.
• 21:30
  There's not many dealers that would actually communicate that to the public outside of, like, a banner at the top of their website. Stroke of genius. Yeah. They'd actually probably try to avoid the conversation.
• 21:40
  Th- this is the thing that stands out to me, especially in this digital era and with so many unknowns as far as technology and all the places you can find answers.
• 21:48
  Despite the trillions of data points that we can access through Google, it's shocking to me how poor the answers still are in 2023. Psh. And so here you have a company that is like, wait a minute.
• 22:01
  The whole f- methodology is they ask, we answer, and in so doing, builds all this trust and, and affinity. And, and I mean, to me, it's, like, and I think to the three of us, it's such a no-brainer.
• 22:14
  It's like, of course I would make a video about being closed.
• 22:18
  Because I can think of how many times I've scheduled a service appointment for a dealership through their online system and rolled up to the, the bay doors and they don't open, and then you see a little sign on the, the tape to the outside of the door that's like, "Given the unforeseen circumstances of
• 22:35
  heavy rain, we are" [laughs] You know, you're like, "What? What the heck?" [laughs] Doesn't make any sense. So I love that they're leaning into brand.
• 22:42
  And certainly, you know, all of the dealers that pay attention to that and stop getting out of this, it must one-to-one map to a car sale.
• 22:51
  And actually building relationships and answering people's questions just seems like such a no-brainer strategy to me.
• 22:57
  And, uh, uh, so we're glad that we're able to bring you that conversation with Luke Neiderer, uh, here on Auto Collabs. And on behalf of myself, Michael Cirullo, Paul J.
• 23:06
  Daly, and Kyle Mountser, catch you on the next one. Sign up for our free and fun to read daily email for a free shot of relevant news in automotive, retail, media, and pop culture. You can get it now at asotu.com.
• 23:21
  That's A-S-O-T-U.com. If you love this podcast, please leave us a review and share it with a friend. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time.
• 23:31
  [upbeat music] Welcome to Auto Collabs. Welcome to Auto Collabs. [laughs] Why are we recording? Are we rolling yet?
• 23:48
  Not yet.