Latest / Claymore: Become Who You Are / #680 Break Free From Problematic Sexual Behavior For Good, with Steve O'Connor

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#680 Break Free From Problematic Sexual Behavior For Good, with Steve O'Connor · Claymore: Become Who You Are

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, fifth grade, ten years old, at a friend's house.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, Oh, hey, check this out.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Did the drop ceilings and stash of porn magazines up there?
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't know what I was looking at.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: And at the same time, um, you know, that dopamine rush, which is the reward center of the brain.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: I want to say a special shout out or give a special shout out to the men from Claymore.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: Claymore, you can see the big Claymore sword behind me, big two-edged sword.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: This is our apostolate for young Gen Z men and actually a little bit older.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: We kind of go 17, 18 up into the about the mid-30s with them.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: What a battle they're in.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they just haven't been exposed to the truth.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody passed down this the this beautiful story to them, and they're uh they were floundering for a while, but they're waking up.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: They're waking up.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that you know, they voted for Donald Trump, and now they're asking me why.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: What is going on?
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: What's next?
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: What's next?
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: And they're dealing with so many issues.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: One of the biggest things that I find over the last decade, I have not yet uh met one young man, not one, who has not struggled with pornography.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: We have a pornography pandemic going on, not just an epidemic, but a pandemic.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, this is a systematic attack on the hearts, minds, bodies, very souls of our young people.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm excited to be with Steve O'Connor.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: Steve's married, he has a beautiful daughter.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: He spent 20 years as a sales rep before he launched with along with his wife Kristen, Catholics Fight Porn.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: Its mission is to help men break free from porn and sexual addiction.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: Steve, it's so good to have you, brother.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Jack.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for all the good work you're doing.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and I'm from Chicago.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: Steve, I envy you.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: You're from uh the Sarasota, Florida area.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh what's the what's the temperature like down there today?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's a little chilly.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was in the low 70s this morning.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh how long have you been out in Florida?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Ten years by way of Chicago.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I remember those cold winters and double in the driveway multiple times in a day.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, I I thought I was getting used to it, but I I don't know what it is with me now.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: I keep having visions of moving somewhere warm.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: So far, I haven't done that, Steve.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: Steve, what's going on with pornography?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's so pervasive right now, and I'm not exaggerating when I say that I have not come across one young man, and I'm talking about good young men that are trying uh, you know, to come back into a faith life, at least at the very least, noticing something's wrong with this crazy culture, and they're looking for something more.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: Along with that, they're pulling along uh a pornography uh addiction, which is really uh damaging.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: And what we're trying to do in in many cases is guys coming back into the church and sometimes questioning is it really wrong to bring this pornography addiction into the church itself and uh to go through that.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's really eye awakening uh to me.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, this isn't nothing new.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like I said, that you know, this has been going on for uh with us for a decade where we saw it so pervasive.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, pornography's been around for a long time, Steve, but what's happening today?
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, it's you know, I liked how you phrased the pandemic because I I do believe it's a plan from the evil one.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's it's very strong, it's very powerful.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they call it the new drug, right?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Fight the new drug.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I know guys that have been alcoholics and and drug addicts, and they will tell you to a man that this is harder.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Just harder.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: You can stay away from those things, but we all have a phone or an iPad or a TV or computer, some device that can lead.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's like all roads lead to Google, you know, or all roads could lead to porn, and it's very easy to find, even if it's not hardcore.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: We live in a sexualized culture and it's everywhere, it's in commercials, it's in shows, uh, movies, music, all over.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: You just the objectification of women, um for our pleasure, and and obviously women struggle with pornography as well, so they have their own unique challenges, but um I do agree it's a pandemic, and um you know, some stats from a few years ago was that every second there's about 28,000 um visitors to to this certain website.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: Every second, 28,000, you know.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um to a to a porn website.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I have more stats, but it's it's it's a certain problem that very few people talk about because it's very embarrassing, it's very shameful.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, when Steve, when you swear you know, I think you know, when you say it's harder than even alcoholism or drug addictions or some of the other gambling addictions, at the in the essence, a lot of times drugs and alcohol are are numbing us, you know, and they're numbing our hearts because we feel this ache, something's going wrong, so we can numb ourselves.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: When it comes to our sexuality, this is the very essence of who we are.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: Created as persons to love.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: Man, I remember Sister Lucia writing to John Paul II and Cardinal Kafar and said the last great battle between our Lord and Satan is going to be over marriage and the family.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: And what has that got to do with porn?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: If you can twist and distort the Trinitarian image of love, the father gives his love to the son, the son returns that love, and out from that that love between the father and the son is a person of the Holy Spirit.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: And a man offers his love to his wife, who his wife receives that love, and they and that she receives in a giving way, he gives in a receiving way, and out from that union uh often comes or can come a child, a new life.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: This is the this is the Amago Day, huh?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: If you can twist and distort that, then you can take down the human person.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so what happens, this is not just numbing, this is not just trying to push these desires down.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: This is an attack on on love itself.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I think this is really what people don't uh see right away, and that's why they're so embarrassed.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, this goes all the way back to Genesis, you know, where where Adam and Eve throw out God and then they put loincloths on Steve, and they didn't put the loincloths over their eyes or their ears, did they, brother?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: They put them over their sexual parts, and shame entered there, and that shame that you're talking about trying to bury that, they've they hid from God in the beginning, and we're still doing it today.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: We don't realize this is this is the very foundation of who we are.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: So this is attacking the roots of the person.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: 100%, 100%.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, marriage in the family, and I work with a lot of guys, and the the devastation that porn has on marriage is you know, you can probably imagine, but for some of our listeners, they may not be able to fathom just quite um how far and wide are the effects of porn and marriage.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: And um you know, so so getting help at an early age, and I'd consider 18 to 30s, you know, whatever demographic, you know, Gen Z, that it's a good age to get started.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, you want to start younger than that, but um well, we're working with some high schools, yeah.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: We're working with some high schools, uh, you know, 16, 17 years old.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: But the problem we often have is with the schools themselves, uh, and the parents themselves don't understand the depths of this problem.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, and so it it's it it becomes a touchy thing, you know.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: Once we get guys get into 17, 18 years old, we can just talk to them straight.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you never know what their background is before that, so we're we're a little bit more careful on how we do it.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: But we're talking pretty straight, Steve, to the guys uh that are say juniors uh and and seniors in high school and beyond.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: These are kids in Catholic schools going into Catholic high schools, um, and when and and they're taking porn addictions.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: They're already in into porn in in uh in uh in high school.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: And you just go, holy moly, man.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: And and I'll say this last thing to you is that it's by accident, often by accident.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: We asked guys how early they were exposed to porn, it's usually between eight and twelve years old.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: And what they did, Steve, and this is really nefarious.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's not only social media, and we get it by the phones, and like you said, TV, even Disney's in on these gender ideologies, but I can't believe it in like schools, states like Illinois, they push this comprehensive sex education down on these kids in kindergarten, first grade, and sex or second grade, sexualizing these kids already.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, and this has been a tragedy.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, they're traumatized by this.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: The guys that we meet, uh, especially in the marriages, like you said later on, they've been traumatized by this at a very early age.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: So what they do is they hear this in school, anal sex, oral sex, whatever.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: They don't know what it is.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: They get on a phone, they Google it.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, we just opened uh Pandora's box, haven't we?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Which is, I mean, talk about a shame.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that age, that I don't believe they're equipped to handle that kind of information.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's that's an understatement, Steve.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: When I'm with when I was in first or second grade.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: Well, here's what happens.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: You traumatize them because they never they're learning sex and sexuality from pornography.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: You talk to young girls, young girls often will start to cry when we're talking about what authentic love is how a man should treat a woman if he really loved her.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: They will start to cry.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: They don't even know why at first, but they're it's an emotional outbreak because in their hearts, deep in their hearts, they know something's wrong, but they don't know how to articulate it, they don't know what it is, and they're anxious, they're nervous, they're depressed, they're suicidal sometimes.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: All this coming out from the twisting and distortion, you know?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Which is what the enemy, it's all he can do, right?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: He can't destruction create, he just twists.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, that I've had a stat that says 94% of children will view porn by the time they're 14.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: So 94% is almost everyone, right?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that that average age you said, eight to twelve, that's what I've found as well.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, for me it was 10.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right there.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: So what happened with you?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: Tell tell us, tell us uh a little bit what happened to you.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: Tell us your journey because I know that's part of uh why you got into this, and you're doing this full time now.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I did not go to school wanting to uh help guys overcome pornography, I'll tell you that.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, fifth grade, 10 years old, at a friend's house, he's like, oh hey, check this out.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: They had the drop ceilings and stash of porn magazines up there, and I didn't know what I was looking at, and at the same time, um, you know, that dopamine rush, which is the reward center of the brain, it liked it, you know, at the same time.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so, um, you know, we didn't have really this was kind of as the internet was starting mainstream.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it was really just in print, you know, it was hard to get.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's later at a friend's house, you know, sleepover, and they had the adult channels late at night, and I remember seeing that, and and then, you know, we'd we'd try to look for it, you know.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Then the internet did come around by high school and all that kind of stuff, and um, but just certainly was hooked on it, you know, and um acting out physically as well.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then um just stayed with me.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh uh believed that it um impacted relationships that I was in, um, did other things I'm not proud of, you know, um, because of what was most likely a pornified mind and brain, um, despite good Catholic education, good parents, loving house, and all that.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: So kind of goes to that problem of porn we're talking about.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Fast forward to I'm about 25 or so living in Chicago, and I meet this wonderful young lady, and um we start dating, and it was on my heart to disclose to her this issue of mine, uh, which went back to 10 years old, and she was very good about it and all that.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: Wait, wait, wait.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, so now now you know I'm curious about this because you're dating a girl.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: And you're gonna it what prompts you to expose yourself to her uh from a a uh a a heart standpoint, of course, I mean, and to tell her about this because in a way I I would think, man, you want to keep this quiet, huh?
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: You wanna don't bring this up.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: What what prompted you to you know to open up on uh with her on this?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, good question.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think what did prompt it is I was in a couple of relationships before and I didn't yeah, I hid it, you know, and I it weighed on me.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: I thought, you know what?
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: I I I'm really in love with Kristen, this girl I'm dating, and if I I'd like to marry her.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I it just didn't feel right to not tell her, even though I didn't tell previous women.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: So um, but I I also skipped my high school college years, which is part of the demographic we're talking about.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, high school is just uh just what the guys were doing.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: I was not living the Catholic faith very much or well at all in high school.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, partying with friends when I could, and um didn't even really know the faith, uh, even though I said a good Benedictine Catholic high school with great, great people.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um But here's here's the thing, just to stop you there for a second, another tragedy is that we're not filling these kids up.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, our parents don't know how to speak to us anymore about sexuality.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they they've been sitting with that proverbial frog in that pot for so long.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: They've normalized the fall often.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm generalizing here, of course.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there are some parents that are really trying hard, um, but they don't know exactly how to discuss this.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: They're leaving it to the so-called experts in the school systems to do this, or they leave it to church, and the church isn't doing a good job with this.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: And again, I'm generalizing.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: There are a few, but very few parishes that I know and schools that I know that are actually saying, Steve, Jack, sit down, let me tell you about your human sexuality.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: Here's the biology, but here's the love story at the same time.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: And if you don't put those two together, you know, you you you might as well forget about it.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: You're making it worse.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: In other words, if I tell Steve about his biology, all you could do is go go home and Google this stuff and get into it.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: And the pornography we're talking about is not your drop sealing porn anymore.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: This is hardcore porn.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, this is some sick stuff we're looking at.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: The stuff, you know, violent stuff and and and all the categories I hear about now is yeah, it's not what I was looking at.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: So Steve, tell me about these guys you're working with.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, um, you know, do did have were any of them filled actually?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: In other words, if I'm filled, at least, if I understand the story, if somebody passed down to me what our human sexuality and the beauty of this is, identity, purpose, meaning, male and female, why we're created this way, I could still get caught up in the porn, but at least I have a a base beneath me that when I fall, it's like I'm running up a sand dune and the sand's coming down, but at some point, boom, I hit something solid.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: Most of the young guys we're meeting and girls have no foundation, Steve.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: When that sand starts coming down, they have nowhere to go.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, are what are the guys like you know when they talk about their histories and stuff?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: Has anybody been there for them in the beginning, or are we just leaving them to this moral relativism to be blown around by the spirit of the age?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's kind of what you're mentioning.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like parents, I work with some guys whose parents want to help, but you know, there's a stat that 84% of people struggling with this have no one helping them.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: They have no support.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: So they're on their own.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: To your point, learning what sex is from school, from from Google, from porn.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so a lot of guys is a similar story where they were exposed at the young age, like me and others.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: With no defense, right?
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: No defense.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: No, and no here you go.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: Here's here's here's here's how you're gonna learn about sex, you know, with hardcore porn.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, how traumatizing is this to young people?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: And and so, you know, guys I've talked to priests, I've talked to seminarians, I've got former seminarians I'm working with.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: So talk about men that love our Lord, great prayer life, and they're still hooked on porn.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that was me.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: I was trying to love our Lord too, you know, it's like I learned it was wrong when I was 19, you know, when I came back really into the faith and started practicing the faith.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: But for those five, six years I struggled because I didn't know how to stay stopped.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know how to I was at I was in confession all the time.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, I think that was also part of why I told Kristen is I I I just wanted to be in the light about it.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: It was a major struggle of mine, you know.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: Which is really the first step is admitting we have a problem and seeking help, you know.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: So you work with uh kind of a 12-step program, is it is it a 12-step program, Steve?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: Tell us a little bit about so because this is what I want to know.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: What what bridges that gap from I'm I'm I want to become close to Christ, I'm I'm I'm I I'm in a prayer life, like you said.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to confession.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: Why isn't that enough, uh, Steve?
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: What what what what are we missing here?
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well that that was my frustration because um I was doing all the Catholic things, you know, and acting out regularly too.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so it just brought more shame, you know.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um I found, you know, Kristen said, You gotta you gotta get help.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was lying to her and hiding from her about this struggle after I disclosed, it was then hard to tell her that I kept falling, um, because she has you know higher standards than than I had.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I had the standards, but I was giving in.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's that frustration.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, I I went to see a counselor.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: The counselor said, Hey, go to a 12-step meeting before you come see me next week.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so I went to Sexaholics Anonymous, SA, 12-step group, and um, it's wonderful.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's wonderful.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so what I do is I take what I've learned from the 12-steps and and so much good in there, but I blend in the Catholic faith, you know.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: What do the saints have to say about this?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: What do the popes have to say about this?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: What does the magisterium and the catechism have to say about this?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: And ultimately, what does God's word and scripture have to say about this?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: But ultimately, Jack, it's we have these things, but there's a great quote that the opposite of addiction is not just sobriety, it's connection.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that we we really long for connection, primarily with our Lord.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, He created us, He's the true source of our being, but also with others.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: And by what was really helpful was being in a group and finding other men, same issue, same background, different background, it didn't matter.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: We have the same, you know, we're battling lust.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: And um it was helpful to work with these guys and connect with these guys and you know, be in meetings with them, call them, share the struggles, because I wasn't waking up in the morning thinking, I want to look at porn today.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: But what would happen is I'd go off to work, I'd have different stressors, problems, things to diagnose, and maybe you get yelled at here or there, the boss is upset or whatever.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: You're stressed out, and I wanted an escape.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted comfort, I wanted some peace.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I sought it in the wrong way.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so now guys can learn to uh connect with others and to talk about the things that are bothering you because in a way porn still does numb kind of like alcohol.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was just thinking that when you were saying that, yeah.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: It numbs it momentarily, and then we feel empty, guilty, shameful, gotta go to confession before we can receive our Lord again worthily and in in the Eucharist, you know, and so it's a really it's a vicious cycle for a good practicing Catholic because we know the standard, we know the good we ought to do, but like St.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: Paul said in Romans 7, you know, the good that I ought to do, I don't do, and the eve what I do is the evil that I don't want to be doing.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: So he had these parts of himself that were at war with one another, and so it's pretty comforting.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: And and so what we really work on is we work on connection.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um another main reason we act out is a few things, is maybe some certain unmet needs in our childhood or pain points from our childhood, but ultimately this inability to sit with emotional discomfort.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: Just kind of like I'm saying, you wake up, you go about your day, maybe your girlfriend's mad at you, maybe you don't have a girlfriend, maybe you're lonely, maybe you're bored, maybe you're you know, you're stressed out, maybe you don't feel good enough, right?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe your coworker got a promotion and you didn't, or you didn't get into the college you wanted to get into.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's not easy being human, is it still being human, huh?
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: AA Alcoholics Anonymous says the hardest thing we deal with is life on life's terms.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: Life is full of ups and downs.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so how do we deal with that?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because those downs are hard, they're really hard to deal with.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's uncomfortable.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: So what do we seek?
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: We seek comfort, and because porn lights up the brain, sadly, it's comfortable, it's mind-numbing.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, oh, this person wants me, our brain thinks, because our brains are malleable, they're formative.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, which is also part of the good news, because as St.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: Paul said in Romans 12, be transformed by the renewal of your mind.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so we can, that is the good news, is that we don't have to be stuck in this forever.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: But but why while you're there, and you're right, we don't have to be stuck forever.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: Guys, young guys need to know that your brain, like you said, is malleable.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, it's you know, this plasticity, it actually develops new neural pathways, doesn't it?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, when you say your your brain lights up, it those those pathways have actually been changed.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so this is not an overnight thing.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: When when you try to walk away from these types of addictions, you've got to be a little bit uh kind uh to yourself.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: You know, uh you're gonna fall in between, but it just jump ahead a little bit, those falls become less and less.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: And uh you it is part of sitting in the ache, isn't it?
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: Sitting in that ache.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when you look up at a crucifix, uh Steve, you see that there's suffering involved in this life, and you go, I don't want suffering, man.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: I want comfort, you know.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, to be a real man, that's why we got the sword, Steve.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: To be a real man, you're gonna have to realize you're in a battle.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: You didn't come into a neutral zone, brother.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: You're in a battle and you're gonna have to stand up and do this, but you can't fight these battles, like you said by yourself.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: You need grace and you need you need brotherhood, don't you?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: Versus sisterhood.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: Right, for sure.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, you mentioned parents earlier, and I do think, you know, if we're talking the 18 to 30s, you know, they're they're kind of moving out of the house and whatnot.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Parents do play a big role, you know.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um once again, 84% of guys struggling with this don't have help.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it can be a conversation, it can be a check-in with your son, with your daughter.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: There's of course there's things like covenant eyes and there's filtering software.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Better yet, there's a Wise phone or a Gab phone where there's no interest.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: Well, if anybody, if any parent is listening to this right now and they've just handed their kid a phone and put them on the internet without any filters or you know, any any kind of restrictions, good luck to these poor kids.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: You haven't done your kids any favor, and I realize this is not easy for a parent.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: And here's let me throw this at you, Steve.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, too many of these parents have the same addictions, the same problems.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: I was at a uh school, I was doing an in-service for teachers, and this one woman, this one woman teacher said, Jack, how would you handle this?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: She goes, I I'm I'm walking down the hallway, an eighth grader is looking at his phone, showing it to another guy, and I come up behind him and it's pornography.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I said to him, I said, What are you doing?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: What are you showing?
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you come on down with me ultimately.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: Come on down with me.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: He wouldn't put he didn't care.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I was the teacher said, so I was really disgusted with his attitude toward me.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: I said, let's go down to the principal.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, you know, we're gonna end up talking to your dad about this.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: And he goes, I don't care.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: My dad's addicted to porn.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: My dad's addicted to porn.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: And you go, Wow, you know, what if we pass down to our kids?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah are these addictions, you know.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: How is he gonna help me?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: And then on the other hand, I have some self-righteous dad who forgets how much you struggle as a young man and who's just gonna say, Oh my, get over it, you know.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, neither one of those approaches is very helpful, Steve.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, you're hitting the nail on the head, you know.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: The for the dad who's addicted, he needs help, right?
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, sadly, so many of the guys that I work with, it's because their wife caught them or the wife's had enough.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta get help.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um I get those calls all the time.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're they're typically not coming in on their own, which is why I do I do also work with a lot of guys that do come in on their own, and it's it's a breath of fresh air.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then too, so I mean that's an obvious problem, and sometimes it's kind of like when uh Saul Paul fell off the horse, you know, and met our Lord.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: You you might need a dramatic um thing to happen to break through to that dad who's addicted.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, granted, then it's does he want to be better, does he not want to be better?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a whole different story, but certainly go get help.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then with the latter parent that's oh, you know, just get over it.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, just stop looking at that.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's easier said than done.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and all they want to do is just push this away, right?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: Push this issue uh away and not deal with it either.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: And unfortunately, that's that's not the man with the sword either.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's not the warrior that says, son, come with me.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: And hopefully you've developed the relationship, but oftentimes we haven't today.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: And how many kids are growing up with no parents today or dysfunctional, or they're they're they're in their second or third, their parents are in their second or third marriage.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: This is a rough time, Steve.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: So so tell us when somebody comes to you, and I would you say most of the guys from your earlier comment are coming to you because uh uh marital problems, or are there uh you know, I'm sure you have some single guys coming to you too, but is it it was the was the point you were making that a lot of times these guys are married and it's it's it's ruining their marriage?
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, probably two-thirds to three-fourths, yeah.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and you know, the the poor wives, they're a little bit I can't even imagine.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't want to say helpless, but it's very frustrating because okay, does your husband want to get better or not want to get better, you know?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then yeah, he might come and show up and work on it, but is his heart in it?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: Does he really want to be better?
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: Is he checking off the boxes for his wife?
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: Does he have any clue of how much she's hurting, you know?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, look at let you know, women are not uh innocent totally here, but I get a lot of calls, you know, talking to women and that are are sincere and are have more of a pure heart, right?
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: Not all women do.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: So let's not put all the blame on guys.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: But if you are a woman in that case and you got into this, Marriage with this dream of this this this knight in shining armor that's gonna rescue you and protect you and bring you forward.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: And now every time that you are intimate with him, he's thinking about this pornographic image.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: You can sense this.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: Women can sense this uh in their bodies.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: They're being used as an object.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: Can you imagine how uh it makes me sick to think about this?
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that that your wife, you approach your wife and she goes, here he goes again.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, what a sick, uh uh you know, sad, I should say, even sad more than that.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: Just sad.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: And we have to help these guys get out of this.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: But like you s like you said, not all the guys actually want to get healed, do they?
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: No, yeah, it's a it's been with them their whole life.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost it's gotten them through life.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: As bad porn is a bad coping mechanism, but it's theirs in there.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's there, yeah.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: In there help them survive the ups and the downs, right?
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: Help them get through the hard period.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I think they can't really imagine life without porn, and so they wouldn't know how, and it would require great change.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's become their identity, hasn't it?
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: C.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: S.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: Lewis wrote a uh a chapter in his book, uh The Great Divorce on on this on this lizard of lust.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: And and I won't go through that whole thing, but it it became such a part of him that he couldn't even imagine b that being taken away from him.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what you're alluding to, huh, Steve?
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: And and and back to the wives, I think you know, A, remember that he was probably exposed from eight to twelve years old.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: However, he probably hasn't been fully honest and fully transparent, and he should go get help, and she should get help too.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: There's support groups, um for what she's experiencing and betrayal trauma and and things of that nature.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: And um, she should not be blamed, you know.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: To your point, I mean if there's blame to go around, then okay.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Typically they're blindsided and very hurt, and their whole existence has been shaken because they'll blame themselves.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: How did I not see this?
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: So where whereas women normally have a good intuition and and a good, you know, gut that consents right from wrong, well the man they loved and chose and closest to him, they got one past them.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so then they start to question their whole marriage and everything.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: So does he really love me?
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: How long has he been looking?
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: What's he thinking about this and that?
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: And was he looking and and it unravels quickly, which is really sad, and which is why she needs support.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: They both need support, you know.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: So he he has a story, but now she's she's gotta revise her story and what her reality is from what she thought it was.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: Steve, you you mentioned uh in your bio that Kristen, your wife, is launched this with you, Catholics fight porn.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: Does she help women?
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: It what what is her role in this, or uh you know what what what kind of work does she do?
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, maybe one day.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um her role is really just every single thing behind the scenes she's a part of.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: So you're the you're the front guy on this, really helping mostly men then, right?
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: You're you're working with men.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: You wrote uh at least part of of of your plan.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: You got a 12-step plan, but you also have uh a battle plan.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: I like battle plan because this is our Claymore battle plan, and we're in a battle.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_02: You have five practical steps to break free and live in purity.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: Would that be a good way to to kind of give an overview, Steve, of of of when these guys call you or seek help from somebody?
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: Uh what are the let's let's go through some practical steps because you know let's let's try to bridge the gap for these guys to show them where they can go and and and what's gonna really help.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I think denial, we have to break out of denial.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: We have to admit we have a problem, which means we have to seek help, and then we go get that help.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: It could be from a counselor therapist, CSAT is a certified sex addiction therapist.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: So number one, we got to admit you you you have it as surrender.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_02: How we we recognize the need for change, and now you just hit number two already, right?
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: Get help.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then I I forget the five points on there.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: You can remind me, but the third one is connect with others.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I think this is so important.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: Again, you got the battle plan, we got the battle plan.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's the same thing.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: These guys are saying there's gotta be something more.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_02: And here it's a pornography addiction, too, which which most of the guys we're working with have these problems.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: You you're gonna seek help.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, where do we go?
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: And you got to connect with others.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: You need accountability and support, is number three.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: So let's talk about that for a little bit.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, because if if you let's say you want to drop 15 pounds and use if you commit to a friend, hey, I'm gonna cut out sugar and carbs, and I'm gonna do it for the next six months, if you check in with them and hold yourself accountable, you're gonna be much better off than just, oh, I'd like to cut out sugar and carbs, right?
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'd like to drop 15 pounds, kind of like I'd like to stop looking at porn.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: But if you tell someone, hey, I have a problem, could you help me?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: And you also have to make sure that the person can help you.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh again, which is why I like groups.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: So SA is a free group.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: I help guys, you know, more of a paid community, but like, get help.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: There's resources available, and the guys in there are gonna want to help.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: And certainly if someone is just in there to check the boxes, move on to to the next one.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's uh you look, I know uh AA and you know, from a drug standpoint and an alcoholic standpoint, and these guys are committed.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the guys that are committed to getting better, that have been AA for a while, they become counselors, they become brothers, they want to help.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: And in fact, Bill W.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: Who who Bill Wilson who started AA, I remember early on in his journey, he'd say, whenever I felt like really having a drink, I went out to help somebody because it it's this self-giving again that you realize that it's it's in this action, and this is part of it.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: Number four, do the work, right?
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: You have to act, you have to stand up, you have to act, and you have to be a catalyst for healing, not only for yourself, but you have to be a gift to other people.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: And in order to uh heal yourself, you're gonna have to step into this arena and you know, I have to help you, you have to help me, no matter what issues and stuff we are.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: This is a real battle, and you you you you don't go out on a battlefield by yourself.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, yeah, you you I mean you go in with your group, huh?
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: You go in with your squad and you guys work together to get this thing done.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: What I'll tell you, Jack, is I that was a blind spot for me, which was doing the work, was because I thought I'm practicing the faith.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's another novena, maybe it's the next rosary, maybe it's my next confession, and I'll be free, or the the healing, you know, ministry, or you know, you would get these great preachers during Lent, right?
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that next healing mission will I break free.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: And um doing the work, which is why my therapist, I always thought I'd wake up and be cured of this one day.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: My therapist said, Did you ever think God might want you to do something about it?
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: Hello.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, No, not really.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so Saint Joan of Arc said, act and God will act.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: Saint Augustine said, Um, without me, without God, I can't, I can't get better.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: And without me, God won't.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like God's grace is available, but it's just probably gonna sit there unless we take.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: You have to act.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's so important, you know, when we when we understand this.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: Our bodies make visible the invisible, the spiritual and divine.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: We were created to go into this arena and make God visible in the world through our actions.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: If we just sit around and and think, we'll just pray this away, the grace, like you said, is offered, but I have to act.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: I have to get up.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, God procreates with us.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: When a child is born in the world, God procreates with us.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: He brings this beautiful eternal life into the into the world, but hopefully through this love action of my wife and I, this intimacy, but I have to act.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: If I just sit on the sidelines, God doesn't just produce that baby in the middle.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: Anyways, the point being we have to we have to go into the arena.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: If we want to fight this thing, God wants Jack uh to stand up and say, Jack, grab your sword.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: Let's do this, let's not do it by ourselves.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: I will give you the power, but you got to go battle.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, isn't this what a man wants?
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: I want to be part of this, but fear comes in.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: You got to get courage.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: Look at yeah.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: But but Ephesians 6, right?
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, armor up, right?
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: And well, that's the the fifth wing you have here is time with God.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: They work together, and I think that's the point you're trying to make and I'm trying to make, is that God will give you the power.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: You have to walk into you have prayer, scripture, the sacraments.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: But if I just do those things like a check off the box, it ain't gonna happen, brother, is it?
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's like, and we have to make sure that we're always growing in our faith and spending time with our Lord and doing what we ought to do and um improving, but then it is, you know, I could add a six-point, which is what you said with Bill W, which is being of service to others, you know.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: We can't we can't keep it unless we give it away, you know, and so Bill couldn't keep it unless he went out and helped another drunk.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: Very important.
• 40:09
  unknown: Yeah.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's very, very important.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot, you know, there's a lot of tips, tricks, tools, resources.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think a lot of it is emotional regulation.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because once again, when we are off, if we're too high, angry and raging, or if we're too low, we're numbed out, isolated, um, you know, stressed, stressed, overwhelmed.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: So what do you do?
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: What do you do, Steve?
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I call you up, and I, you know, I'm a I'm a basket case in in different ways.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: Even if I try to on the exterior, I try to look calm.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, lot of stuff is going on.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I re I I would I would think that there's a lot of individual therapy that has to happen.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh each guy has his own journey, even though we have some commonalities about sin, uh, about the way we fall, about the power of lust.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_02: John Paul would say, you know, the first fight that any man gets is for his own heart, and you fight on a battlefield of the human heart between love and lust.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: This is the main thing.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just sexual lust, it's lust for money, power, all this stuff.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: But sexuality, uh, you know, John Paul would say, especially for young people, he said this, he goes, he was asked why he talks so much about sexuality.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: And he replied, because the abuse and misunderstanding of sexuality is the main obstacle to spirituality.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so this is the main obstacle.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: And you go, why?
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_02: Again, that gets back to that Imago Day.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: We're created in the image of God who is love and who who we we are to make that love story visible, so when we allow Satan to twist and distort our sexuality, Steve, this is this is just devastating, isn't it?
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: It is, and it's also serious, right?
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: You I think you mentioned Fatima earlier, and I think our lady said our sin that sends the most souls to hell is sins of the flesh.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so He said that to his sister Faustina.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_02: He said that you know, it the scourging at the pillar, he said when he was being scourged, most of those stripes, those the that that that beating that he took is through the sin of our sexuality, isn't that something?
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so on the one hand, it's very important, which which calls to breaking out of denial, admitting you have a problem, and getting help.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: On the other hand, you hit on a huge point, which is having compassion for ourselves, is that we are on a battlefield and it's so much of it is not our fault.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what is our fault is the decisions we make and continue to great point, Steve.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_02: Unpack that a little bit more.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we came into a world at war, but nobody told us a lot of times.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_02: And that sin has been coming down to us, brother.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_02: I I didn't cause all the sin in the world.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_02: Right now, I caused some of it by going along with it, but but that's a great point.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_02: Make that point again because I it I we we can't be harsh on these people, can we?
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_02: You can't just beat people up.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: They've already been beat up.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: You can't.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the world will do that, their parents will probably do that for them.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: We we have to balance the seriousness of sin and and getting help with compassion for ourselves, what we've been through.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't my fault I saw porn at 10.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't my fault my brain liked it.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what is in my control is what I do about it.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: And and so that's it, you know, for the for the um single guys, you know, get help.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: Learn how to overcome this by the time you meet the woman of your dreams or go on to be a priest or religious, you know, and so that you can carry out your vocation in a pure way.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: And look, there's stumbles along the way, there's falls along the way, which goes back to the compassion.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, be firm enough with yourself to be honest, to root out the evil, to make the changes, and then have compassion.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: Have that's the divine mercy message, isn't it?
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, our Lord's mercy is infinite, you know, his mercy endures forever, his love endures forever.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: So we just have to reconcile doing our part versus not falling into the depths of despair and shame over what we've done, who we've hurt.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's step nine in 12 step is um making amends, righting our wrongs, direct amends.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: Tough to do, tough to do, brother.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: Direct amends, indirect amends, and a living amends, right?
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're married, that's why I'm big on helping her heal, is um, hey, if you broke something, you gotta fix it.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's your your responsibility to repair it.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_02: And yes, part of being a man, yeah.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: But it's our job to fix it.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I go to catholic porn.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_02: is it.com.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: Not catholicporn.com.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want a brand of Catholic porn, right?
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well Catholicsfight porn.com.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, CatholicsfightPorn.com.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: If you go to catholicsporn.com, you can probably get caught in this subterrible thing.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: So Catholicsfight porn.com.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: And then what happens now?
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: I reach out and give us a little step in there because I want to encourage guys that are struggling here not to be afraid.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you know, we're we're sitting on the fence for a long time.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: What happens if I what happens, Steve?
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know, how what's the process?
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_02: Let's let's just crack it open and and let these guys have a have a at least a smooth entry into the in into this, right?
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'd say book a call.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I can chat with them, you know, 15, 20, 30 minutes, figure out I maybe I'm the right fit, maybe I'm not, you know, and and I can always point them in the right direction, give them resources.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we have groups of men fighting this, and groups are powerful.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: I do one-on-one too to dig in a little bit deeper.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um of course, if it's over my scope, I'd refer them on to a licensed therapist and things of that nature.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: So um, but but very happy to help.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, for for the um the couple that's really seriously into it, the wife that's really seriously hurt, happy to give you resources and chat as well, and to help your husband, but also to point you in the right direction.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, good.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_02: Good.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_02: They can chat too, they can chat with you.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, is that kind of a free thing that at least initially I can, you know, I that's gonna make me feel better, I I think already, right?
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_02: Just to be able to make that because you're talking about that action.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's that first action, is that call, and that should not be that difficult.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_02: So you're not gonna yell at them, are you Steve?
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm no, I'm not gonna be yellow.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully they can tell by the vibe, you know.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, my job is to help.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in the trenches.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I still do my own recovery, I still go to Essay to maintain, you know, my program of recovery.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: By God's grace, I've been sober for many years.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: And um, but it's it's a one day at a time thing.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's fragile too.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: So um, but I'm happy.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like you said, St.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: Paul, St.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_02: Paul had some kind of th uh thorn in his side, his flesh, he called it.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_02: Now we don't know exactly what that was.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_02: He didn't make that explicit, but if St.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_02: Paul's gonna struggle, we can all struggle.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_02: Look at St.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: Augustine, right?
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_02: This great saint.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, he struggled with chastity.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, he never did marry that that woman that he lived with for almost 15 years.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_02: He he had a child, uh, his only son out of wedlock.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, there's a lot of brokenness, you know, and usually, and you mentioned it in here uh a lot of times, that we we have to fall first.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_02: And and it's in our failures that we see that wow, I need something more, right?
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_02: I need something more.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the guys that we're working with.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: I need something more, not only for for a porn addiction, but just all of these things that we're fighting, right?
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_02: But but certainly this has to be solved, I think, for young people if they want to live a full, flourishing life.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_02: And when I say young people, it's not just young people, it's all ages, isn't it?
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, one point that that comes to my mind, Jack, with St.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: Paul and the thorn, and he asks God to take it away three times, and God says no.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: And our Lord says, power is made perfect in weakness.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, this recovery journey I've been on for 15 years is I just thought I had to just stop this thing, this dirty, evil thing.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: I just need to stop this so I can marry Kristen.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: And what our Lord has shown me is that it has helped every single aspect of my life.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still a work in progress, I still make a lot of mistakes and have a long ways to go.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: But where I would be from where I am now, because of recovery and working with our Lord, you know, that's step six and seven is big in AA and SA, which is defects of character.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's you know, working recovery, um, guys that work it and want to be better.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: I almost when I'm in meetings with them or working with them, it's almost like this factory for sainthood, you know, is like guys, they have a strong connection with our Lord and they're rooting out sin one day at a time.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: And if they stumble or fall, they're picking themselves up, they're learning from it, they're making the necessary adjustments, and they're better and stronger for it.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: So um, it's really not something to be scared of or nervous of.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's more of an invitation.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's an invitation to holiness, in my humble opinion.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's beautiful, brother.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you so much.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for the work that you're doing.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, everybody.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for joining us today.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I'll make sure I have Steve's contact in the show notes.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: Reach out to him, talk to him a little bit.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_02: Talk to you again soon, everybody.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_02: Bye bye.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Jack.