Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Control Issues In Men

Transcript

Control Issues In Men · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi everybody, and welcome to the dr.
• 0:07
  Psych mom show today. I am going to talk about men who
• 0:11
  have control issues, which I've already talked about women who
• 0:14
  have control issues, most my podcast about the CEO.
• 0:19
  And the resentful employee was about both but predominantly
• 0:23
  women and there's way a lot of talk on my blog and everywhere
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  else in the universe about when men just are very passive and
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  listen to their woman. Tell them everything to do
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  wrong. House.
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  That's the entire reason. These things are talked about
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  emotional labor and everything else.
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  So it's like people forget that like 50% of people with control
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  issues are men but God having control issues, not like a
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  gender thing. So in fact, males with control
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  issues are very common among the population that I see
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  specifically which is really high achieving people, and
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  people who have been very successful and Conventional
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  sense. So we'll talk about that.
• 1:08
  But first I must tell you to subscribe and so most recent one
• 1:13
  was why should stop telling your wife to get a hobby.
• 1:15
  And so if I could take just one thing that everybody does that
• 1:20
  kind of is a huge turnoff to their spouse and change that for
• 1:24
  them, then that would be good. So maybe the one thing that you
• 1:27
  could do is listen to that podcast and stop telling your
• 1:29
  wife that she might really like Crossfit because she doesn't
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  want to do CrossFit and I will explain Why?
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  Okay, so back to this topic. So what does it look like when a
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  guy has control issues? Well, he may not be in charge of
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  every little thing around the house.
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  Although some guys are they have all their systems in place and
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  they want to be the one who does all of the home projects, who
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  packs, everything who organizes everything, who puts everything
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  in the dishwasher, the right, quote unquote, right way, who
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  you know, is the one with all of the lists and the nose from
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  Mike. Micro and macro level,
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  everything that needs to be done in the home.
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  There are some guys like that. There are other guys that are
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  not as picky with various house things, but they are really
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  picky globally about about just having things done their way.
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  So for example they want to only have vacations that they want to
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  go on. So if they like hunting or
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  fishing then they want a vacation with hunting and
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  fishing. If they only like the cold and
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  they will never go to a tropical island.
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  And same thing with eating, if they don't like Italian, they
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  will never go out to eat Italian.
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  They will only go to eat American or whatever.
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  These are a lot of the guys actually who will watch every
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  single football game, and it doesn't matter if there's an
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  event, or if there's like a fall festival with the kids, they
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  will always watch it because they have to be in control of
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  their schedule and that is their schedule.
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  Now, there's at a very extreme version.
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  That's overlaps, a lot with my ocpd.
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  Cast, obsessive-compulsive personality disorder, which is
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  distinguished from OCD obsessive-compulsive disorder.
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  This is a personality level disorder where somebody's very,
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  very rigid. So, but you can listen to that.
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  That's a very extreme version. But what I'm talking about here
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  is just the person whose difficult, you know, this is a
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  person who just wanted their way.
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  And I'll know this in session because this is the person who
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  has, like, the really, like, I'm trying to schedule a session
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  with a couple. There's one person who can only
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  do Like certain times and those times are very very infrequent.
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  So despite that the marriage is catastrophic, you know, they can
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  still only do Monday's between three and four.
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  Well that indicates control issues, right?
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  It doesn't usually at the level that were talking about indicate
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  that they are going to get fired if they were ever to come in
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  late once every two weeks. But rather, that that does not
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  fit their schedule and their schedule and their choices and
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  their preferences are. Paramount another big one where
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  this comes out which some men really don't understand is with
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  exercise. So if the man has a certain
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  exercise schedule, I see this all the time where they have to
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  get out of the house by like 6:30 so that they can go into
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  8:00 and then somehow they still feel like they're getting
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  everything in because at 8:00 they come back and then they
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  drive the kids and then they do this and then they do that but
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  they're still extremely rigid. So when you're partnered with
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  somebody who's rigid, you feel very Unimportant and dismissed
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  and frequently look down on and kind of send it to because they
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  imply that you're doing things about wrong way because it's not
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  their way and they get all so very, very anxious when things
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  aren't done their way and that anxiety makes them act very
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  snappish and irritable and so they're really shit to be around
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  at that time. Now, you may be able to very
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  much empathize with your partner's experience relating to
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  you. If you are the person with some
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  control issues, if you think about relating to whichever
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  parent pass down their control issues to you, because there was
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  one, you don't learn it from nowhere, its nature and nurture
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  like everything else. So likely you had a very type a
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  parent and genetically, you're like them.
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  But also you learned their style for being extremely controlling,
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  by the way. There's there's there's two
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  types of controlling and there's overt.
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  Just like narcissism is like overt and covert.
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  So the overt is The person who's like, okay, literally, like this
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  is the only schedule I will do. And so like the person who's
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  like, know, I can really only do things between 3:00 and 4:00
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  p.m. on Mondays and then there's a person who's like, they're
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  not, I'm really flexible. Totally, but then if you're
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  like, okay, what about 2 p.m. on Thursdays?
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  You're like, hmm. No, I'm sorry.
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  It just, you know, that just just doesn't work, maybe a
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  different week, but certainly and then eventually you learn
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  that it's really only Mondays at 3, but they just don't want to
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  You seem controlling. So, it's like kind of a passive
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  approach to the same level of control.
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  Somebody who's covertly controlling can be even more
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  frustrating because they act like they're being flexible.
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  They may even say that they're really laid back, but only the
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  intimate partner and the children know that this person
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  is completely inflexible. So going back to where you learn
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  this from and your family of origin.
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  It is extraordinarily likely that if you're this way, that
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  you had a parent who is this way, and you learned from that,
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  And that there is one set of systems that are correct, you
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  know, and there's everything else is wrong and there is one
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  way to be efficient in any given situation.
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  And for example, we pack for travel exactly in this way at
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  this time, and with this amount of days, before the trip, we
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  have to do this, we have to do that.
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  And sometimes, if you ask your spouse, who's like this, why
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  they have like 20 million reasons, you know, and none of
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  them are like factual, they'll be like, well, you know, you I
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  booked the flight like six weeks before because they exactly six
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  weeks really is the only way that you get the cheapest
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  flight. And I know this because it was a
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  time in college that I tried to do a five weeks on this time in
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  grad school. I tried to do it, seven weeks.
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  And so I figured out this is all bullshit.
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  By the way, this is just Superstition.
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  Basically, this person will get now into the interesting part of
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  why they're like this and why? The parent was like this and
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  everything. It's a form of anxiety, you
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  know. Like there's an illusion that if
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  they can connect, it makes them very, very anxious to be out of
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  control. So there's Illusion that if they
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  have all their ducks in a row somehow they will be able to
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  make their life better smoother easier.
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  More efficient, more effective optimized Etc, this is a lie
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  like, you know, a meteor could come out of the sky and kill
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  you. At any time, you get into a car
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  accident, like anybody could get ill, but people with control
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  issues thing, really? That if they optimize
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  everything, then they can keep everything safe, secure, stable,
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  Able and running perfectly. And so what they fail to usually
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  see, they fail to see the forest for the trees so they they can
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  see themselves, you know? Okay.
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  So my exercise schedule is really great.
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  It's optimized because I don't bother anybody by waking up at
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  5:30. Meanwhile, of course, they wake
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  their wife of, you know, like when they're getting out of bed
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  and then I run, you know, for like an hour and a half so I'm
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  Superman and then I come back and then two kids I wake up the
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  kids to and then I get them. There and this and that and the
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  other, and like, then you're like a, when do you hang out
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  with your wife? Well, the thing is, is she
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  really just goes to sleep a little bit late for me.
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  When did she go to sleep? So she goes to sleep at 10.
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  But the thing is is that in order to wake up at 5:30 I'm
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  really asleep by 9:00 p.m. which is of course five minutes.
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  After the kids go to sleep because they have this amazing
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  routine and schedule where the kids are in bed by 8:00 55 and
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  like, there's no free lunch, you know, which is like a ubiquitous
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  theme across my podcast episodes and Cross kind of life and
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  therapy and philosophy in general, like there's no free
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  lunch. If you are extremely rigid and
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  extremely focused on yourself, this is a version of
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  selfishness. You're so into yourself and your
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  systems and your ways of doing things.
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  Then your partner is going to feel resentful dismiss, not
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  prioritized and frequently kind of send it to another thing that
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  people's control issues do is correct.
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  So they'll correct either Overtly if they're more overt of
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  a controller or covertly. So either they will say these
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  guys will be like, although the wife let's say, common one, the
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  wife tries to get involved in the finances because she's more
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  confident. Now she's older.
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  She feels like she ought to know this stuff.
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  She gave him over the all of the finances at the beginning
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  because she herself wasn't confident.
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  He seemed to like to do it. Now she wants to know about it
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  and first time that she says, oh here's my pass at this or this
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  budget or what I think. He's leichner.
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  Let me show you why you're wrong, or if it's more covert,
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  he be like, oh, okay, sweetheart, hmm.
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  So, you know, good try, you know, but like that's not kind
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  of how I do it which is, you know which is okay.
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  And by the time that he's done with all of that shit she
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  already feels like she's two inches tall and she's not going
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  to try it again. Now, this is not to say, by the
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  way, there is no Bad guy as I've consistently repeated.
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  So who Partners themselves with people with control issues?
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  People who have no confidence? So, you know, it's like a
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  smaller version of the narcissus borderline Dynamic that I speak
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  about in my podcast who latches themselves to somebody, who's so
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  rigid. Somebody who is very insecure
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  frequently. Had some sort of like I'm
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  diagnosed ADHD doesn't feel like they're competent at anything.
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  So then here comes in this man with all of his Items, you know
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  and so she thinks all right good, you know, I can't do it.
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  I have low self-esteem about grew up in a dysfunctional,
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  family of origin that really never taught me adulting skills
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  or as they're called now. And I really don't know how to
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  do anything. So I'm just going to get with
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  the program. These systems, and routines and
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  so forth. Certainly seemed better than my
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  none of those. And so the woman usually doesn't
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  think, as I get older, as I matured, as I grow more
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  confident, I am going to want input.
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  I am going to find this increasingly annoying that this
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  guy tells me. I'm pouring my cereal wrong, you
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  know? And so when I see these couples
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  where the guy has control issues, It's usually the guy
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  feels very shocked because he has been the same rigid fuck for
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  the whole time, you know? And he hasn't thought of himself
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  like that, he thinks himself is very optimized and very, you
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  know, like the the the Tim Ferriss, you know, devotees that
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  love, Tim Ferriss, 4-Hour workweek.
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  Week. They these guys really feel like
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  they have every one of their ducks in a row and that they're
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  amazing at keeping everything in its place and everything is
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  efficient. And they don't have no idea why
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  they were so annoyed because they really used to be like this
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  all the time and they're right. But usually, they're wife has
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  changed and she is now a mother and she is kind of looking in
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  differently at observing differently the way that he
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  speaks to her, which is frequently condescending.
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  And it's a good a good Example of this.
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  I use this movie for everything, is When a Man Loves a Woman with
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  Andy Garcia and Meg, Ryan, and it's really, it's really good
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  about codependence about. She's an alcoholic and not
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  moving, but it's, he also has control issues, so he's not just
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  an enabler in a codependent, but it's a good example of somebody
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  with control issues and he thinks that he has everything
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  exactly running perfectly and then, and he really kind of
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  talks down to her when she tries to intervene in any way.
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  So there, Is, there's a dynamic with this.
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  That's not dissimilar from my podcast, mr.
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  Perfect. And it's crazy wife, and that's
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  a subscriber one. And I also have a post on it.
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  And so this in that, it's like this guy is so awesome.
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  He has a great job. He's so smart, he's so calm.
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  Cool and collected. He's great dad.
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  And she just for some reason, it's just some crazy bitch.
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  Obviously there's more to the story.
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  This guy's frequently very condescending.
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  He doesn't really show any feelings, he Thinks that he is
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  on a pedestal and that she is just some crazy bitch.
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  You know which really does not allow for somebody to be their
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  best self and frequently does not have any sort of
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  vulnerability or any empathy. So the controlling person is not
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  dissimilar. They they may not even honestly
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  be so Charming is the mr. Perfect.
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  But they really do think that their systems, their routines,
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  their whatever has gotten them to where they are.
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  And they get very, very anxious, deep existential dread if these
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  if these routines are messed with and frequently, they get
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  very angry and you wouldn't think they come off.
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  So, rational that you would think that, if you would say,
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  oh, I bought you a different, you know, brand of chips, that
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  any human being? That's really rational be like,
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  okay, sure. But if somebody's extremely
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  controlling, they're going to get very mad that you bought
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  them A different brand of chips and they are going to Never Let
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  You by. Chips again or, or just by their
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  own chips, constantly. No matter which chips.
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  You why? Because there is something about
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  having everything exactly, the way that they're used to it,
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  that is very reassuring for this person and makes them feel like
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  they're not anxious. When in reality, the anxiety
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  underlies all of this and explains all of it.
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  They, if they are allowed to independently do every single
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  little thing, they want exactly how they want it, they don't
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  feel anxious so that's why they do.
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  It that's why anybody gets into kind of rigid routines or
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  obsessions or compulsions of any sort and not to say this is
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  diagnosable OCD but it's along the spectrum of anxiety related
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  issues, which OCD is one, you know.
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  And ocpd is a personality disorder that relates to this
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  rigidity. Neither of which has to be
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  diagnosable in somebody with control issues like what I'm
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  talking about. But, but there are shades of of
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  the same, underlying constructs of Us all.
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  So if you are with somebody with control issues, couples
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  counseling, can be very useful because you're finally going to
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  get somebody the whole point of really couples counseling is to
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  grow more flexible. So, if the person is yelling at
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  you because you bought the wrong chips, or it's condescending to
• 15:51
  you because you thought that maybe you could take a different
• 15:53
  Airline. Or, you know, you try to put a
• 15:56
  line item in the budget and they said no way it's that's not
• 16:00
  gonna go over well, you know. So there will finally be See
• 16:05
  who's saying kind of like, why don't we learn to be a little
• 16:08
  more collaborative or flexible or what have you?
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  And sometimes this really is a wake-up call, especially for
• 16:14
  people that do not have deeper level personality issues that
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  they could be like, but I thought like they would really
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  think I thought the therapist would be on my side.
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  My system is awesome. You know and then this the
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  therapist is not on the side of the system, the therapist is on
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  the side of a collaborative, egalitarian respectful
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  partnership and this is like a whoa mindfuck to the person with
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  all the rigid systems Things that the be-all and end-all of
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  life is to have the best system, Whoever has the best system went
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  which is not true. It's Whoever has the most
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  usually happy fulfilling authentic.
• 16:44
  Relationships wins if we had to say about something about
• 16:47
  winning. So hopefully some of this was
• 16:50
  interesting to and resonated with you in, as much as how
• 16:52
  these issues, develop What the deeper meaning, and fears Behind
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  These control issues are how they manifest overtly and
• 17:01
  covertly, what sorts of Partners generally End up with such
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  people and a path forward where maybe in couples counseling,
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  this is a real common one. Dealing with one person, being
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  more rigid or anxious than the other, this is like the bread
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  and butter for couples counselors, you know?
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  And so it really could provide a path forward if you as a partner
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  of the person with control issues.
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  Feel like you have increasingly low, self-esteem that you get
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  angry resentful. That you feel bad about yourself
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  etcetera. Etc.
• 17:31
  That's no way to live your kids, by the way, are going to start
• 17:34
  looking down. To if they see that the father
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  is looking down on the mother, the kids start to look down on
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  the mother. It always happens.
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  You don't want that to happen. All right.
• 17:42
  So hopefully this gave you some food for thought, please, do
• 17:45
  subscribe and I'll talk to everybody soon.