Latest / Mortgage Marketing Radio / Ep #72: How Survive and Thrive in Today's Market

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Ep #72: How Survive and Thrive in Today's Market · Mortgage Marketing Radio

0:00
In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with
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the real estate agents is essential for success.
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However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge.
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Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Cogill is a must-read.
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Chris has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals.
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To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy
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of the case study today.
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You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million
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Don't miss out.
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Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today.
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Hey, listeners, Jeff Zimper, welcome to this episode of Mortgage Marketing Radio.
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Once again, so glad you are here, are you enjoying the episodes?
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I sure hope so.
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Listen, if you ever want to reach out to me, you have a question, suggestion, maybe
1:47
somebody you'd like to see featured as a guest on the podcast, you can always email me directly.
1:52
The email address is info at Mortgage Marketing Institute.com, just let me know what's
1:58
up, how it can help you.
1:59
And once again, if you're loving the podcast, feel free to share the love, leave us a review,
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iTunes, Stitcher, appreciate it right there.
2:08
I think the secrets out for those that are kind enough to leave a review, I am thanking
2:14
you and acknowledging you for your kind words.
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How am I doing that?
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I'm sending you all some free clothes.
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Yeah.
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I mean, listen, I've seen your wardrobe, you need some help, okay?
2:25
We need to step it up a bit.
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So if you want to leave a review and you want a nice thank you for that, here's how it
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works.
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Then email me that you've done, you did indeed leave me a review and what your shirt size
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is and your mailing address.
2:41
Why?
2:42
Like I said, wardrobe needs help.
2:44
So I can send you a cool mortgage marketing radio t-shirt, that's right, that's what
2:47
I am going to do.
2:49
And man, I tell you what, these things are just, I can't keep them in stock long enough.
2:53
I just sent out another batch earlier in the week and I've already got some new folks
2:58
that I got to get some new t-shirts out for.
3:01
So if there's a slight delay on the turnaround and the t-shirts getting to you, I appreciate
3:05
your patience.
3:06
Specifically, hey, John Brueck, what's up, my man, over there, and cool, full Washington.
3:12
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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So we're going to come up to your way, we're going to meet, maybe you have dinner or
3:16
cocktails or something like that, but a mortgage marketing radio t-shirt on its way to you
3:22
as well.
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So, all right, let's get into this week's episode.
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I want to unpack, well, first of all, let you know that we had a little bit of an audio
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challenge at the start of this episode, so you won't hear it kind of like the intro
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welcome to the show.
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Normally, we just cut and get ready into the interview, so apologize for technical difficulties,
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but the meat of the interview is still there.
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And Mike started over there, you're looking around the industry and you see people that
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are performing a certain way, they've conduct themselves at a very high professional level
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and they've clearly got it wired, you know, and they've got this incredible business that
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they've built.
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They've wondered, how did they get there and what are the things that they do, and you
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want to borrow from their examples, right?
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You want to remember that commercial back in the day with Michael Jordan, be like Mike,
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well, in this case, in a lot of ways, I'd like to be like my special guest, Ryan Grant.
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Ryan Grant is just an amazing human being, amazing person, not just in terms of who he is,
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this is a quality person, but what he's done, what he's accomplished in the mortgage
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space, in a very short period of time.
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I mean, literally, within two years, he went from about $11 million to over $60 million
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in business and just last year in 2017, he helped over 200 families.
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He's ranked as the number one lender in Orange County, California, which is a huge feat.
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It's a very competitive market.
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And I believe he's ranked as the number 38 lender, Prince Scott, he's got it from
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correct nationwide.
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And so what really stands out for me about Ryan is, when he and I talked, he talked about
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the shrinking compressions in the market, the pricing, the compressions, the competitiveness,
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and the fact that it's getting harder to win, if you will, you've got to have your A game
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on, right?
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And it's funny, because Ryan's approach to that is, he's excited, he sees fun times
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ahead, even with all the threats, if you will, of the mortgage technology displacement
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in Amazon and this and that and the other thing.
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He sees it as fun times ahead and we unpack kind of the mindset behind how he sees his
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role as a mortgage professional and how he's architected a five-star customer experience
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that is like no other and differentiates himself, his team from the get-go.
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And the results speak for themselves in terms of not only his production, but obviously
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his, if you go to Zillow and look up Ryan Grant, the way I grant team, you'll see over 200
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of reviews, 4.8 stars, average, and the raving comments that clients have.
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So Ryan and I unpack this whole, what does it mean today to, you know, kind of, as it
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refers to in the book, right, the experience economy is the book.
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And what is your client experience like, right, and how are you impacting your clients
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and your referral partners and how you structuring that process so that it's completely unexpected
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and surprisingly delightful, if you will.
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And what is your value proposition?
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And Ryan talks about, our job is not the pre-qual as a mortgage loan officer.
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Our job is to remove doubt.
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And Ryan just does a great job of going through how he architects his process.
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So interesting facts about the home buying process in terms of how people feel when
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they go through that experience, how they feel about after they buy a house.
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And literally, if you ever wanted to, you know, just have a blueprint for what does a
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high performing mortgage professional and team look like, sound like, this is it, this
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is it for you, okay.
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So can't wait to hear your reviews, your feedback on this very pleased to have, especially
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I guess, Ryan Grant on today's episode.
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So let's get into this week's show.
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Defom owner or the consumer is looking to buy a home that they should go through a very
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similar process to what we have in place.
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And so the more we can get out in front of people and explain that and teach it and coach
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on it, the more market share we can capture in the higher level of service and the higher
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level of education and confidence that the consumer will have.
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And so I'm really excited about the market coming forward.
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I think I mentioned to you the other day.
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As a realtor for anybody, you know, you didn't really need a great lender from 2012 to
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2000, maybe mid 2017 because money was cheap, you know, housing was cheap.
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It really made sense for almost everybody in America who could buy home to buy one.
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And now that we have all time my housing prices and interest rates are climbing back up,
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there's a lot more fear and a lot more uncertainty, a lot more anxiety.
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So as a realtor or as, you know, any referral partner, if you're not working with a lender
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who really understands how to positively impact the psychology of a buyer in a way where
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we can be educational and consultative, it's going to be difficult because you're going
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to deal with a lot of uncertainties and unknowns and that's going to hamstring a lot of buyers
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and sellers.
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So I believe we are much more valuable today than we ever have been simply because of
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where the market stands and that gives us the opportunity to go grow into that space.
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What do you think makes us more valuable today than ever before?
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What's changed?
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Well, I mean, look, previously, you know, if it was 2015 or 2014, nobody was really concerned
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about should I buy home?
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It was just how quickly can I buy one, you know, interest rates were 3.5, housing prices
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were really affordable, you know, the average person can afford the average home or even
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above average home.
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And so it was really just, let's get a Morrison, let's do this, right?
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There wasn't a lot of, should I do this?
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There wasn't a lot of fear, there wasn't a lot of uncertainty or anxiety.
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It was just, you know, rates are low, housing prices are great, you know, they're coming
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up a little bit, but they're coming off of the bottom.
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And so, you know, they just, realtors would send their business to people who would just
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fund loans.
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But I think that that mentality has kind of, unfortunately, carried through and a lot
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of lenders have kind of devolved into, I call it kind of the McDonald's of the mortgage
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industry, where, you know, somebody would pull up to the first window and say, I want to buy
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a 600,000 out of our house, I want to put 20% down and I want this rate, I want no points
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and they'd say, great, yeah, absolutely, pull up to the next window and we'll give you
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that to you.
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And that's really unfortunate, because 44% of Americans, based upon a truly a study,
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have some form of regret two to three years after they bought a home.
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And it's because we allow them to do what they thought, based upon some pre-kissed
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notion, and nobody challenged their assertion of, are you doing this correctly?
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Should we do it differently?
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Should we look at something differently?
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Should we really try and understand your goals, your short-term and long-term timelines?
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And so now, you know, if you still have that mentality of kind of accepting what the
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consumer wants, you're only going to, you know, be as valuable as your interest rate,
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because they're just basically ordering that everywhere.
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Yeah, so do you have any insights into what some of the reasons why those 44% of people
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had some regret about buying a house?
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Yeah, based on the study that I read, it was a lot of people would have bought a slightly
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larger home and maybe, you know, stretched a little bit more because they've played it
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a little bit too conservative based upon their income.
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Some people would have put less money down on their home because they felt a little
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bit too cash-strapped trying to get to the 20%, and some people would have potentially
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bought in a different area.
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They would have held money back to do some upgrades because they lived in a home, but
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they didn't have money to upgrade.
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So the list was extensive, but the biggest reason was, you know, people didn't buy a big
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enough home, and they were a little bit too conservative, which is understandable coming
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out of the recession, right?
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But they didn't also have anyone to talk to, to challenge their assumption of what they
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should, what they thought they should be doing, and that's really what our job is, you
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know, people who think that a mortgage lender's job is to pre-approved a client, and ultimately
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fund that loan, it's a gross misunderstanding of what our job is, you know, our job is
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to take that fear, that anxiety, that, you know, that lack of information and education,
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and convert that into somebody who is highly educated, highly motivated and confident,
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and can make an educated decision, regardless of the decisions to buy a home or not to buy
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a home or to sell or not to sell.
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Our job is to help people really make educated decisions based upon the analysis we provide.
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I think that that's a missing link in our business to most people's business.
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Well, why do you think that the, because I agree that with that premise, that that is
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truly our job.
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If a fiduciary responsibility, we should look at ourselves as a financial consultant
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on the same part of that, of like a CFP and things like that, and I think that goes
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to our overall discussion about in this market is getting tougher and tougher to compete,
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which means you need to be heavier again.
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And I know you're, well, I have two questions.
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One is, I think, why do you think nobody's beating that grumb loud enough or louder,
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or more do you think that is changing, you know, raising up the professionalism of the
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mortgage originator?
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Do you think that's changing at all?
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It's hard to say.
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I'd like to think it is.
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I mean, I do a lot of speaking and coaching and a lot of, you know, I preach it as much
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as I can, because I'm really proud of the way we run our business, and you know, we're
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the highest rated reviewed Morris Under in the county by far.
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And it's not because, you know, we just give good rates and we close loans, and it's
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because of the, you know, the experience the clients goes through the educational process
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they have, the confidence they have in their decision, and their overall satisfaction
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after it's done, knowing that we're going to continue to be there with them for some
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time.
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So, to me, I hope it spreads.
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I hope more and more people adopt our style of business, because I really think it's
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the only style of businesses going to work.
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Moving forward, other than the absolute lowest interest rate online, find the client, you
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know, and then just put them in a loan, which it is a viable business model.
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It's just not one that I fully believe in.
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I think that through marketing and, you know, the company is spending a lot of money trying
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to tell the consumer why they should, you know, click a button in their underwear and get
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in a mortgage at eight minutes is a good thing, is doing more harm than good to our overall
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sustainability of homeownership.
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I think people are making mistakes that they could definitely avoid if they adopted or
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if they went down the path that they really should.
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And so, yeah, I'd like to see more people do this style of business, but it's hard to
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say because, you know, people are afraid and then they haven't done this style of business
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for a very long, and so they think, well, I just need to be with the company that, you
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know, has leads and low rates, and that's a slippery slope.
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Yeah, because that can change an R.P.
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Yeah, I mean, the real estate industry is not dissimilar.
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I mean, there's a lot of realtors who are, you know, wondering, you know, people moving
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to Red fan and Purple bricks, and it's just a, you know, it's all a value play in my opinion.
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If you're very valuable and you add a lot of value to the transaction and you're a consistent
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advisor and consultant with your client throughout their, their financial life, you should, you
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should be able to run a really well-run business with really happy clients and offer very competitive
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terms and commissions and, you know, really run a good business.
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But I think people are operating out of fear of just thinking that, you know, well, it's
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a commodity, and this is that and the other, I just fundamentally don't believe that.
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Yeah, a lot of people are fearful of that, if I don't have the best rates, because that's
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what the consumers are conditioned to come at us with is, you know, what's your rate,
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right?
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And we just, like, need your, oh, that's a four and a quarter, and you're dead in the
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water.
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Yeah.
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I mean, you just lose, I mean, there's clients that lose thousands of dollars and they
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make really bad decisions and they don't, they don't structure them on appropriately or
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they don't buy the right home based upon their timeline and their, their goals overall,
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or they just, there's a lot of things that go into this.
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I mean, we look at every client's transaction holistically, so we look at, you know,
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life insurance, estate planning, you look at, you know, tax planning, retirement planning,
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you know, having enough liquidity, post-closing, emergency funds, you know, budgeting,
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understanding, you know, kind of what other child care, all the stuff that comes into the
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equation.
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And, you know, sometimes clients meet, clients meet with us and they find out it's not
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the right time to buy home, whereas somebody else may have just put them into a home that
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would have done them more harm than good.
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More often than not, you know, people do find that it is a good time and then they're able
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to make really good decisions and go from there.
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But I think, you know, people trying to save an eighth of a point or a quarter of a point
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of an interest rate and foregoing all the analytics and analysis and, and, and consultation
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that really needs to come, or be involved in this is kind of like, you know, cutting
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off your nose is by your face, it is, it's not a smart decision.
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So, I want to unpack that because I know a lot of people here, which you just described,
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you know, the holistic approach to the mortgage process and we take a look at all the aspects
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of the financial situation.
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I know a lot of that was, you probably personally experienced this, when they first hear
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that, they're like, what, how the heck am I, you know, do I have that large encompassing
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conversation with people?
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And I think for the first challenge is, it's a paradigm shift, so it's a mental thing.
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We have to, which is what I think your business is all about is you want to deliver not the
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average experience, but an exceptional experience.
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Are there any, you know, suggestions, best practices?
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Do you have, I know you have a very structured customer experience process.
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So if you could maybe just briefly, you know, highlight how you take control of that and
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maybe, you know, illuminate, I'm sure you've had people push back on that, that encompassing
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process.
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Do you mean, we have clients push back on?
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Yeah, I already mean clients push back or like, what, what is this?
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Why do I feel like I'm getting like, I just want to rate that, you know?
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Yeah, so again, it comes back to, well, that kind of answered that question in two parts.
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It comes back to the consumer being conditioned to think that, you know, they're getting
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a mortgage loan the same way they're, they're buying or getting, you know, applying for
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a credit card or something, you know, I mean, it's just, you know, the people are being
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conditioned to think, you know, I just want to click a button and get a mortgage and I
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don't need this and the other and, and there is a subset of the market that that's true
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for.
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I mean, there's, you know, there's going to be people who really understand the financial
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analytics of, you know, their overall finances and they have a solid understanding of what
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they should and can do.
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But that's not the majority at all.
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It's probably not even close.
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I would say maybe 10% of America has the capacity to really fully understand and engage
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in that.
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But I have every single person I come across, it was the last time you took an hour
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out of your day to learn more about your financial future.
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And more often than not, no one has an answer.
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They can't remember or they never have, which is a really sad date because, you know,
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we're not taught that in school.
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There's no education around it in the employment space, you know, unless you're in a financial
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sector of some sort and so most people just don't do that and it's a huge part of our
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life.
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And so when we explain to our customers what we do and why we do it, not only are they
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eager to do it, but they're excited, they're, you know, they, no one's taken them through
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this before.
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Nobody's taken the time to help them with this.
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They haven't approached a financial advisor because they didn't even think they had enough
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money to invest to begin with.
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And so we've become that kind of de facto financial person for them.
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And again, you don't see commercials on TV where, you know, people are going into a mortgage
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advisor's office and sitting down and having a structured conversation and really understanding
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what they should be doing.
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All you see is, you know, bank rate, lending tree, quick and press button, get mortgage,
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you know, don't talk to anybody, just get a low rate and it's really doing a disservice
20:07
to the consumer.
20:08
And if I had all the money in the world, I would run those commercials.
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We actually just created a commercial around it.
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Obviously, we're not going to run it in the Super Bowl, but, you know, I think that they
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just need to know what's possible.
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Most people don't even think that meeting with a mortgage advisor exists.
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So when given the opportunity, they really jump at it.
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I mean, we met with 96% of our clients last year and most of them, we met three times
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during the transaction.
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Wow.
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So we spend a significant amount of time with each client.
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We do our initial dreams and goals call.
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We have our pre-purchased consultation here in the office, which typically takes about
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an hour.
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And then when they go into contract on their home, they come back in the office for, you
20:49
know, typically 30 minutes to an hour to really make sure that we're getting this right,
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we're structuring everything correctly, we're explaining all the ins and outs of the process
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to them.
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We're making sure they don't have regrets or concerns, and then they sign their documents
21:02
in our office.
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That way, if they have questions, we're here for them.
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I mean, this is the way it should be done.
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I fully believe that.
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And I think if you pull our clients, they will absolutely tell you many of them have
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done mortgages the other way and they won't go back to that way.
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Obviously, with that high level of service and professionalism, the rate sensitivity becomes
21:24
less of an issue because of the value you're providing.
21:28
Yeah, I mean, it definitely doesn't become less of an issue.
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I mean, everybody definitely wants a good competitive interest rate, which we absolutely
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offer.
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I mean, our interest rates are as good if not better than the majority of our competitors.
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But, you know, there's always going to be the guy who's going to do it for less, right?
21:47
The online call center or the automated system where you just kind of become a number.
21:54
And it's always shock me that we are not seeing in the same light as a financial advisor
21:59
as EPA.
22:00
So you talk to your CPA every year, right?
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And people take it really seriously for the most part, and they have their meetings with
22:06
their CPA, and they talk about this and not the other thing.
22:09
The same thing with financial advisors if it's a good financial advisor.
22:13
But as people's lives change and evolve, you know, as they come into money, as they lose
22:18
money, as they go into debt, as they sell home, buy home, get a raise, you know, lose a
22:23
job, have a kid, you know, kids leave the nest.
22:26
Every, at every stage in someone's life, as it's changing and evolving, the way that
22:30
they manage their real estate and the way that they manage their mortgage should change
22:34
and evolve with it.
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And it's always shock me that people don't have a trusted mortgage advisor to confide
22:43
in at each one of these steps in their life.
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Well, that is because different set of beliefs is what that is, you know.
22:49
Well, again, it's not a thing, it doesn't exist.
22:53
Right.
22:54
So, you know, people would only think, well, why would I call a mortgage guy and let's
22:58
know on alone?
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Like, if I need information, I need to come up with it on my own, or try and find somebody
23:03
who can give me unbiased information and good luck with that, because the majority of
23:08
Americans are dealing with salespeople who are commission-based.
23:12
So it's hard to find unbiased advice, right?
23:15
Our mortgage advisors are not, our mortgage advisors are salaried people.
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They get very small, you know, bonuses when loans close, but it allows them to provide
23:26
unbiased, non-sales-based advice.
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They can just be consultative, they can tell clients exactly what they should or shouldn't
23:33
do.
23:34
I mean, we probably tell more people not to refinance than we do to refinance, because
23:39
they think they're saving money, but in reality, over time, they're going to lose money.
23:43
And so, our clients really have grasped on to that concept, because they didn't know
23:47
is a thing before.
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And of all the great things we do, right, how we help our clients before they buy home,
23:53
how we help them during the contract, and how we help them after.
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The after part is the most important thing to almost 90% of our clients.
24:01
But nobody knew the after thing was even a thing before they spoke with us.
24:07
So what do you mean, explain why the after part is the most important?
24:10
Well, because nobody has anyone looking out to them, right, like if my job is to give
24:14
you the largest debt you have in your life, I really believe I have a fiduciary responsibility
24:18
to help you proactively and professionally manage that debt.
24:23
If I was a financial advisor and you gave me half a million dollars, and you call me
24:26
a year later, and you say, hey, how's my money doing?
24:28
It's time for a review, and I go, oh, you know what, I'm really sorry, I haven't a chance
24:32
to look at it.
24:34
You'd probably be mad, right?
24:35
Right.
24:36
Right.
24:37
I for the life of me, I do not understand how we are not the same exact way, right?
24:42
We are trying to ensure that our clients are always in the best finance position possible.
24:47
We should always make sure that they're appropriately reaching a debt for your retirement.
24:51
You know, most large banks who offer what most people think are competitive rates have
24:56
a vested interest in ensuring that person never gets out of debt.
25:00
We don't, right?
25:01
We're not the bank, we're not the noteholder on that thing.
25:03
So we don't have that vested interest.
25:05
Our job is to make sure that our clients get out of debt and grow their wealth and accrue
25:09
more real estate and plan for a good retirement.
25:12
When you say what you're talking about, you specifically, your team, that's your philosophy.
25:17
Yes, absolutely.
25:18
Or I, you know, I would think every loan originator in America, when I say we, but obviously,
25:23
we know that's not the case.
25:25
Well, so what we're getting at here, the core is how you see yourself as a mortgage professional
25:31
is for me, the real key, the foundation to come correct, what's really created the genesis,
25:40
if you will, for how you designed a Ryan Grant team and what you sought as the experience
25:45
you wanted to create.
25:46
You know, you've been sector this whole thing.
25:48
You see the role of a mortgage originator as different than probably most people.
25:53
I was going to ask you if you see yourself as a salesperson.
25:58
No, the term sales never even comes up in our office.
26:02
Sales?
26:03
I kind of despise the term.
26:06
I mean, I think that, you know, sales is such a negative connotation because it means
26:11
we're literally selling something and a lot of times it's, you know, when someone is selling
26:16
something with the understanding that they're going to make additional money for their family
26:21
if they sell that thing, it can never be unbiased.
26:24
It can never be solely in the client's best interest.
26:28
And that's why you get a lot of people calling, hey, you want to refinance buy home, blah,
26:32
blah, blah.
26:33
It's like, you can't tell someone if they's refinanced or if they should buy home or if
26:36
they should sell home unless you know a lot of information about them.
26:43
And that's why these call center places that offer these low rates.
26:47
They just hire people that have no financial wear with all.
26:51
They really don't care about the consumers ultimate, you know, ultimate and the game.
26:56
They just know they need to sell something in order to make money.
26:59
I really believe that if you don't sell things, if you just do the right thing, it's such
27:05
a differentiator.
27:08
And you know, everyone thinks that, you know, well, people will do the right thing but it's
27:11
not always the case.
27:12
And so if it can be very apparent and clear that you and your team do the right thing by
27:17
calling every time and really support them in their efforts, you don't need them.
27:24
At some point, you will not need to market like you won't need to spend marketing dollars
27:28
because people will say, if you want to work with a team that does X, Y and Z, you've
27:34
got to call this team and they become your sales source, they become the generators
27:38
of your business.
27:40
So obviously, you know, there's a marketing component to it, but over time more people
27:45
will be attracted, in my opinion, to what we do than where the industry has headed.
27:50
Yeah, it's interesting because I thought about branding, some of the personal branding
27:55
stuff that I do and the thing that stands out for me there is what branding is, it's storytelling
28:00
and it's how people describe what it's like to work with you.
28:06
That's your bright.
28:07
Yeah.
28:08
So clearly, to your point about you guys and your presence online and social media, Zillow
28:12
in particular, you've got 192 reviews, 4.98 stars, I mean, that's just rocking.
28:19
So I want to come back to reviews in a moment, but I want to, two questions I'm going
28:25
to ask you.
28:26
Let me do it this way.
28:27
Just briefly, what for you was the pivotal moment when you kind of like, because if I remember
28:32
us when we talked before, you weren't always operating in this section, is that correct?
28:37
No, no, not at all.
28:38
So what was the thing, if you could look back, you woke up one day, you're like, you
28:42
know what?
28:43
I'm doing this wrong.
28:46
I don't know if it was, it definitely wasn't one day.
28:49
It was through a lot of coaching, it was through a lot of experience, a lot of learning
28:56
from other great people in our industry.
28:57
I've been really fortunate to surround myself with some of the best, you know, more
29:02
as originators and business leaders in our industry across the country.
29:08
And we always, we're very like-minded in how we operate our businesses, we're very like-minded
29:13
in the mentality that we have in regards to how we help our clients and what value we
29:18
really should be having.
29:19
So, you know, I think if that collective mastermind helps people see the light, it helps
29:28
me because, you know, I, you know, I started in 2005 and I was just a call center guy,
29:34
right?
29:35
I was just working, doing our finances and I was 23.
29:40
I didn't really know much else.
29:42
And I did that through, you know, the downturn and then, you know, I got into management
29:47
and some other things, but I never had met a realtor.
29:52
I didn't have a pass client database and so in 2011, I decided, I'm going to try
29:58
and, you know, career relationships and actually have a career as opposed to a job.
30:03
I think that's a big differentiator that most people need to make is look at their business
30:08
and say, do I have a career in the mortgage industry or do I have a job in the mortgage industry?
30:13
And if you work for a company that, you know, is providing you leads or kind of puts you
30:19
in a box or, you know, you don't have the ability to, you know, brand yourself and your
30:24
team and really be kind of an entity within an entity, you may have a job, which means
30:30
that you could ultimately lose that job.
30:34
And so, you know, the career-minded loan originator, the career-minded mortgage producer is
30:40
somebody who really needs to understand that they need to have a legitimate value proposition
30:44
and they need to fully believe it and invest in it.
30:46
And so I just learned that, you know, in 2011, when I started, I was really just like
30:52
everybody else, which is out there, you know, trying to meet in any people's possible
30:56
and then doing loans, but there wasn't much other value.
31:00
And then over time, I started realizing, well, this should happen, and after meeting
31:02
with more and more clients, just face to face, which I used to not do, I started realizing
31:07
the power in that not only for our business, but for the consumer and for their happiness
31:12
and satisfaction.
31:14
And so then we just kept adding, adding, adding, adding, adding more value.
31:19
And at the point now, where we have an entire post-closing team that does nothing but make
31:25
sure that our past clients are well taken care of, you know, making sure that we're always
31:29
following up with them.
31:30
We're making sure they have a good CEPA, financial advisor, state planning attorney, that they're
31:34
properly insured from life insurance perspective, that they're always in the best loan.
31:38
We're doing annual financial reviews and all of our clients.
31:41
We're helping them understand, you know, what they can do, setting goals for future real
31:45
estate.
31:46
And so, to me, that's the coolest part of our businesses, ensuring that all the people
31:51
who've entrusted us to help them with their own financing are continuing to get a high
31:56
level of value and service for the next 30 to 50 years.
32:02
So when you hear, by the way, thank you for articulating that.
32:06
And it's obviously paid off for you nicely.
32:08
When you, you know, all the noise, all the stirring, stirring of the pot out in the marketplace
32:13
about displacing loan officers or Amazon, getting in the mortgage business, or, you know,
32:18
whatever, you, how do you, how do you look at that?
32:21
How do you respond to that?
32:23
I think that just like anything else, you know, and I don't know, I don't ever remember
32:29
a time that I've been in the mortgage industry since 2005 where there wasn't change, right?
32:35
If there's any one constant thing, it's going to be that there's always going to be change.
32:39
And so it's not a matter of fearing change, it's just a matter of understanding what it
32:44
looks like and navigating through it.
32:46
And so to me, it doesn't matter.
32:48
I mean, you know, people keep thinking technologies are going to replace loan officers.
32:52
Well, if you're a loan officer who doesn't have a significant value to the consumer, then
32:56
yes, technology won't only will, but it should replace you.
33:01
However, you know, if you run a business that people really find value in and that you
33:07
fully believe is a better way of doing this to create a more sustainable level of home
33:12
ownership in America, then you don't need to, you can use technologies like everybody
33:18
else to automate more of your process, to get deals unfastered, to create less paperwork,
33:24
to do all the things that mortgage technology will do for anybody.
33:29
You can use that.
33:30
You know, those things should become available.
33:33
So I'm not too concerned, the only difference is, you know, who's going to get the lead,
33:37
right?
33:38
Who's going to get the client?
33:39
Who's going to get the information?
33:41
Because we can all use mortgage technology the same exact way.
33:45
But you know, you got companies that are, you know, saying they're going to be the lead
33:51
aggregator and they're going to control it and they're going to do everything under one
33:54
roof.
33:55
You know, they're going to do mortgage.
33:56
They're going to do real estate.
33:57
They're going to do insurance.
33:58
They're going to do property management.
33:59
And it's going to be one hub for mortgages.
34:03
I mean, good luck, right?
34:05
Like every single one of those industries is really important to be good at.
34:13
So for one company to be good at all of them, have we ever seen that in the history of
34:16
life?
34:17
Yeah.
34:18
No.
34:19
So just be really good at what you do, right?
34:22
Be really, really good, be valuable, perform at a high level, ensure that you give more value
34:27
than anybody could ever pay you for and you won't have to worry about being replaced.
34:32
Now, I do think that the law officer who does one to four loans a month will probably
34:40
go by the wayside.
34:41
It's really going to be more of a, you're either a high performing mortgage team that has
34:48
the capacity to run a business the way it should be ran or you're going to be a company
34:54
who generates business and then pays loan officers to then perform that the loan.
35:00
But the self source originator, that one to four, one to five unit person, that's going
35:05
to be tough because with, you know, with compression and a few other things, it may be hard
35:08
for companies to pay that person a hundred to 200 basis points based on whatever their
35:14
comp plan may be because it's kind of like, well, you don't really add a whole lot of value.
35:21
So the clients still going to want a really good rate and it's going to be hard for me to
35:24
pay you that margin.
35:25
So, you know, my advice to any, any originator right now would be either worked really hard
35:31
to grow a high performing team that helps your client in every aspect of before, during
35:38
an after they buy home or maybe, you know, think about going to work for a company who's
35:45
going to provide you leads and, you know, go that route.
35:49
But the people in the middle might find themselves in a tough spot.
35:54
Yeah, but it's funny you say the team concept because we've seen that happen in real estate
35:59
as well, right?
36:00
Right.
36:01
Big time.
36:02
Yep.
36:03
And there's a place for those, for those people that are one to four units a month that
36:05
they give you because be part of the Ryan Grant team, for example, you know, I don't
36:09
know if that's like, meets your minimum threshold, but you get what I'm saying.
36:12
Yeah, I mean, like again, we, you know, my, our team is really consistent of advice,
36:17
the mortgage advisors that work on clients as they come in.
36:21
We also have people in our branch that are, they're kind of what, we get their external
36:25
officers, people that, you know, are growing their teams.
36:29
But my goal is to turn to their teams and exactly what my team looks like.
36:33
And that's their goal.
36:34
So, you know, we want to bring this to as many markets as we can because I mean, the
36:42
power behind it is so fun.
36:43
I mean, I just had a post closing call with a client yesterday and the feedback we get
36:49
is just, it's so touching, right?
36:51
I mean, it's really like almost moves you to tears at times when people tell you what
36:55
their experience was like compared to other experiences in the past and how important
36:59
you were to them and their, their family and their life.
37:03
You're not going to get that by being a call center and telling a low rate.
37:07
You're just not.
37:09
You're not going to get referrals from that.
37:10
You're not going to get repeat business because nobody feels, feels any different.
37:15
I mean, there's a great, there's a great book called The Experience Economy.
37:19
And if you don't think that the experience that the consumer goes through matters, you
37:25
just think that ultimately as they get a low rate, that's what they're going to be happy
37:28
with.
37:29
It's your dead raw.
37:31
I mean, we've had plenty of clients who, who have opted to try and go for the low rate,
37:38
who then come back to us two weeks into a transaction and say, the other companies,
37:42
not performing, they're not getting it done, can you please help us?
37:45
And then they become our biggest fans because they see the difference.
37:49
And sometimes it's hard for people who are conditioned to think, all I need is a low
37:53
rate to understand why, you know, an eighth of a point or a quarter of a point when we
37:59
are $30 or $50 a month is going to be the most important thing they could do in their
38:04
life.
38:05
I mean, it's very simple to sometimes see that, but the majority of our clients, you
38:08
know, really understand that the value we provide is way more valued than they could ever
38:13
get.
38:14
I mean, without going into the rate differential, but yeah.
38:18
Yeah.
38:19
Well, that's awesome.
38:20
So, real quickly then, for those listening, and, you know, I want to come back to that
38:24
question.
38:25
You've obviously crafted a, an architect, is a better word, this five-star client experience
38:31
which in some ways has become an infamous and I know you shared at the Todd Melkin events
38:35
and elsewhere.
38:36
Yeah.
38:37
What would be just a couple suggestions for people, how they can start to, you know, from
38:43
the point of that first contact, instead of jumping right into a 10.03, right?
38:47
Any quick tips on how do you create that differentiation from the get go?
38:51
First thing you should have to do is listen.
38:53
What a concept.
38:55
Yeah.
38:56
Most, most people talk more than they listen, you know, which is kind of an unfortunate
39:01
side effect of being a salesperson.
39:03
Yeah.
39:04
A salespeople love to talk and they think that what they say really matters.
39:08
You're saying it doesn't.
39:11
Well, I mean, to a certain extent, right?
39:14
But the more you listen, the more you can be helpful.
39:18
And so, you know, we train on how to take that initial phone call and we are really,
39:26
intentional about ensuring that we know what the consumer wants, why they want it.
39:33
And if we should, you know, potentially slow them down and try and challenge some
39:39
of their assumptions and show them different options, which, you know, sometimes people
39:43
are a little bit hesitant to, but once they understand it and see it, they're really
39:46
thankful for.
39:49
And so, you know, just listening and then, ultimately, we just tell our clients how
39:53
we're unique and say, look, there's obviously a lot of options to choose from when you're
39:58
financing home.
39:59
And there's no shortage of people that are really eager to sell you debt.
40:05
But the difference is, you know, what do you, what do you really want in a relationship
40:09
with a mortgage company or a mortgage advisor?
40:12
And then we kind of go into our value proposition and, you know, the 10 or 3 of the application
40:17
is the last thing that we do because we want the client to really understand our process.
40:22
And our, all of our realtor partners really understand our, our concept as well.
40:27
It's always funny when I, when I meet a new realtor and I ask them the question, you
40:32
know, if you were to refer a client to your lender, could you confidently tell that client
40:38
what that experience is going to be like from the first phone call the 50 years later?
40:43
And to this date, nobody's been able to answer that question.
40:46
That's because they really isn't a systemic approach towards this with most originators or
40:52
most businesses.
40:53
You know, most realtor just think, well, they pretty approved the client and then they
40:57
fund the loan and they do a good job.
40:59
Okay, well, that's also going to be a problem in the experience economy moving forward.
41:05
So our realtor partners fully understand the value that we provide.
41:08
So they do a really great job in telling the clients what they're going to go through
41:12
as well.
41:13
You know, Mr. Smith, you know, Ryan's team will reach out to you Tuesday at four.
41:17
They'll send you a calendar invite.
41:19
They'll do a drains and goals call with you just to make sure that everything is understood
41:23
and they'll prep everything in advance and then they're going to invite you into their
41:25
office through your pre-purchase consultation.
41:28
Highly recommend you go through that process.
41:30
I've sat through it personally.
41:32
All of our clients did do it.
41:33
The best thing you can do to ensure that we know exactly what we're doing and why we're
41:36
doing it.
41:37
And then we can confidently, you know, go into the marketplace and find you home.
41:42
And so, you know, when a client hears it, it's really easy for us to then just have that
41:48
process start.
41:49
Yeah, because the expectation is set up from the realtor, but the big takeaway that I'm
41:53
hearing there is obviously you've coached your realtor's on how to set you up, how to
41:58
make you preferable.
41:59
Right.
42:00
Right.
42:01
And you have to do it almost like, you know, you don't have to, but it's really helpful
42:05
if you do it from the first phone call because I would ask realtor, how often when you
42:12
refer a client to a lender, do you see that momentum or motivation slow down and they're
42:17
like all the time.
42:18
And it's because, well, you could do something very small in the front end of that process
42:23
in terms of connecting the two people, you know, by scheduling that create the high level
42:29
of customer service and a higher level of momentum.
42:33
And so just that one small thing that we teach our partners has been such a big, big win
42:38
for them and for the clients and for us.
42:40
Are you saying that the realtor's have access to your calendar for scheduling because
42:44
you, you know, kind of reference that in the, in the talk room?
42:47
No, so essentially, I mean, a realtor can just say, hey, Mrs. Smith, what's the best
42:50
day time at phone number to have, you know, our finance and team call you?
42:53
Got it.
42:54
And he can say Thursday at four and we have, you know, multiple mortgage advisors and, and
42:59
lead managers and, you know, there's so many people on our team that are trained and
43:03
can make that initial phone call that they don't ever have to then call.
43:06
And you know, if you're a single source originator, they can't really say that because I'm
43:10
going to have to call you and say, okay, Ryan, are you available Thursday at four?
43:13
No, I got kids, soccer practice or whatever.
43:16
And so, you know, it just being able to, and this is kind of tangential, but being able
43:22
to, if I called you today, and I just said, hey, you know, I'm calling to talk to you about
43:27
your new home and financing.
43:29
Like, would you just have 30 minutes that are completely undivided attention you can give
43:33
to me?
43:34
So you hadn't carved out?
43:35
Yeah.
43:36
No one, no one does, right?
43:37
And we're just expecting like, we're just expected to make a phone call to somebody out
43:41
of the blue where they have all the time and attention to talk about the most important
43:46
decision of their life.
43:48
So, you know, we want to have that call to be scheduled and anyway, that's a small coaching
43:53
thing, but it makes a big difference.
43:55
Well, what I love about that is somebody alone officers could get better at coaching the
44:00
realtors on the referral process, you know, but right there, like you said, this is really
44:06
the start of that customer experience and, you know, I mean, listen, it comes back to
44:11
my, I know a lot of fellows are like, you know, well, how am I going to get my realtors
44:14
to do apps right to do this?
44:16
We, there's a number of things we want our realtors to do.
44:20
Well, the only thing, the only thing, in my opinion, like, you know, to answer that question
44:25
is they have to see the importance of it for the consumer.
44:29
If they see the importance of it for their client, they'll do it, but if they think they're
44:33
doing it for you, they may not, right, one of our guys yesterday said, you know, a real
44:39
to said, you know, I kind of feel like I'm being your personal assistant.
44:41
Like, no, no, no, you're definitely not.
44:44
You are, you are making sure that the consumer experience is incredible and you're ensuring
44:49
that we keep their motivation momentum level high and then having them go through our process
44:53
in a way where they can make more confident decisions and then kind of the light turns
44:57
on and they think, oh, yeah, like, I'm not doing this for anybody else, not doing it for
45:00
me.
45:01
I'm not doing it for the lender.
45:02
I'm doing it for our client.
45:03
Yeah.
45:04
Right.
45:05
And I know we don't have time to get into it, but I know like when you do meet with a real
45:08
to a real partner, you're kind of, you know, why should you partner with the Ryan Grant
45:11
team?
45:12
I say, I know I'm assuming just because I get a sense of who you are.
45:16
You know, you're really mapping out the, what makes us different as a lender, right?
45:20
It starts with, right?
45:22
Let's get on the same page about how we're jointly serving this client at a higher level.
45:26
And then, you know, you're kind of building that, that whole referral process with them.
45:31
So they understand they get it their own board.
45:33
Correct.
45:34
Yeah.
45:35
It's a, you know, when we do a, when we meet a new realtor, we have the opportunity to
45:39
talk to somebody about our value proposition as a business partner.
45:42
Now, it's a multi-step process.
45:44
So we initially show them, you know, we do a presentation to them about our client experience
45:48
so they can see it through their eyes.
45:50
And then, assuming that they want to take the next step, then we have a business partnership
45:54
planning meeting where we get into how we work together on a day-to-day week-to-week
45:57
month-to-month, because all of our referral partners and our, our realtor's don't just
46:03
see us as a resource where their clients get their loans fund, but they legitimately
46:06
see us as a, as a business partner on a day-to-day, because of the fact of how we integrate
46:12
them into our system and vice versa.
46:14
And so we work really well together and we've seen a huge level of growth in their business
46:20
because of some of the best practices we've put in place and we've learned a lot from
46:23
them.
46:24
And so it's a really fun thing for us to partner with people who understand the value
46:28
of the partnership.
46:29
Hey, I'm curious on that note.
46:33
Understand the value of the partnership.
46:34
That is a key point there because any realtor, once you've laid out your, your, your, your
46:40
five star client experience, a smart realtor is going to know that you're helping build
46:45
a fence around those clients, you're helping ensure that they get that transaction versus
46:49
that client going somewhere else, am I right on that?
46:53
Yeah, it's one of the, one of the many things they, they take away from it.
46:56
Yeah, so then I'm curious about that, this is, this may be a kind of a tangent question,
47:01
but because you know the whole, hey, pay, pay for my leave of the Zillow game, right?
47:07
So I'm curious, how many realtor's, if any, right?
47:12
Are you engaged with on a lead share thing and do you have a selective process, you know,
47:16
before you're willing to do something?
47:18
Yeah, so I tell everybody the same thing, look, if, you know, what, what, you know, my
47:23
passion is, you know, the business of the mortgage industry and a, a really great
47:31
auxiliary benefit of that is we get to help a lot of families buy homes.
47:35
Now the, it really goes back to the business channel is that if we're working with a partner
47:41
who we fully believe in and they fully believe in us, then why wouldn't we invest in growing
47:47
our collective businesses?
47:49
It's like, we're not doing it for them, we're not doing it for us, we're doing it for
47:53
our business as a whole and so if we're saying that we can reach more consumers by, you
47:58
know, both going into a marketing strategy and we can help more people in the way that
48:04
we see fit, then why wouldn't we?
48:07
You know, so there's no, I don't really have a, a set guideline for, you know, when we
48:13
do co-branded marketing or when we don't or it's really just a matter of, do we believe
48:18
in the individual, is there, are they fully committed to the partnership?
48:22
They fully believe in the value of it and, you know, we're really going right now to
48:30
try and go more direct to consumer ourselves and so we're really diving into that channel
48:34
which we have not done for the last six years and so just in the last six months we've
48:40
really started to dive into okay, how can we, how can we aggregate more clients, how
48:44
can we get to the consumer, how can we use social media better, how can we use our online
48:48
presence better and so now we're able to generate a lot of business that we can then refer
48:53
back to our, our realtor partners and so it's definitely a two way street, we don't,
48:58
we don't typically partner with anybody who doesn't fully understand the value of the
49:01
partnership and I think the biggest difference is, you know, some realtor think, well, you
49:07
know, I should send this, this one officer deal because he's, you know, we're loyal
49:10
or because, you know, he helps you assist or because he helps me with that.
49:15
The key differentiator is that we want our partners to realize that the more they send
49:21
us, people to talk to, the higher chances they have of helping that person buy a cell
49:27
at home and so they don't think that they, you know, they want to or that they, you
49:34
know, that they're obligated to send us anybody, they should really understand that they
49:38
absolutely should and need to if they want their business to grow because like I said,
49:43
there's a lot of fear and anxiety in the marketplace right now.
49:47
Every person we meet with, you know, always has some fear or some unknown or some lack
49:52
of education and as a realtor, sometimes you know, it's hard to overcome that because
49:58
a lot of it's financial and so if you're not working with a lender in 2018 that has
50:05
the system and has the process of walking a client through not only what they can do
50:11
but what they should do and getting them to fully understand that comprehend it and
50:15
believe it and be motivated by it, it's going to be difficult because at that point we're
50:20
only going to help the one or two people out of a hundred that have made the decision
50:24
to buy a cell at home but that leaves 98 or 99 people who have not made the decision
50:30
because they don't have anybody to help them with that.
50:33
That's our goal, you know, our goal is to help 98 or 99 people who have an interest or
50:38
just want to learn more and then from that there's going to be a big subset of people that
50:43
end up needing to buy cell or refining to do whatever but most people aren't doing anything
50:47
right now because they're paralyzed based upon the fear and anxiety that's coming to them
50:52
from the media.
50:53
Yeah, it's like you said at the beginning as our job is not to free-whole or jobs to remove
50:58
jobs.
50:59
Right.
51:00
Yeah, whether they're getting into the market active or they're deciding to just sit it
51:05
out for a while.
51:06
Yeah, that's all we care about, right?
51:08
All we care about is that we give them enough information to make an educated decision.
51:11
I know.
51:12
And I think that most loan officers, definitely they don't intend to do it but they're
51:17
actually doing more harm than really do a transaction because, you know, let's say someone's
51:21
paying $2,200 a month for rent but they want to buy a $500,000 condo and you have 5% to
51:28
put down.
51:29
Well, their payment is going to be $1,300 roughly.
51:33
So if you tell Mr. Smith, hey, Mr. Smith, congratulations, you're pretty approved.
51:36
You can go buy a, you know, a house that condo is 5% down, payment is $3,400, let us know
51:41
when you find one.
51:42
We're happy to help.
51:43
Well, Mr. Smith is not going to be really eager to go out and buy that condo, right?
51:47
He's not going to understand why he should do that.
51:50
So he's going to make a decision.
51:51
He's just not going to be an educated one.
51:54
And, you know, the realtor and the lender are both going to think they did their job.
51:59
But in reality, the lender didn't do his job.
52:02
The lender just gave me the information he needed to make a bad decision.
52:05
But if you show him, well, look, this is what you're paying in rent now, but we know you're
52:09
not going to stay there.
52:10
So what would you be paying in rent in a year or two?
52:13
And then with rising rental increases, then what would you be paying?
52:16
Well, compare apples to apples and then let's now also get a tax benefit and also get
52:19
the wealth impact.
52:20
And what's really makes sense of should you or should you not do this?
52:27
And that's when I say that we positively impact the psychology of the consumer.
52:31
I don't mean that we make them buy a home through some psychological gymnastics, what I mean
52:37
is we give them all the ability and confidence in the world to make their decision.
52:43
As opposed to, I'm just going to rent for another year, I'm just going to save more money
52:46
and they don't realize the market is going to run away from them faster than they can
52:50
catch up to it.
52:51
Yeah.
52:52
That's great.
52:53
Right.
52:54
And it's also valuable for the realtor in that when they come to you, you're getting
52:58
them mortgage ready to be active in the market if that's the right choice for them.
53:03
Yeah.
53:04
The partners we work with are really, you know, they love it because when they show homes
53:08
to people, those people are not only, you know, financially motivated and understanding
53:13
the why behind why they should do this, but they also have a really big competitive advantage.
53:19
So, you know, when you're motivated intrinsically knowing that it really makes the most financial
53:26
sense for your family, but then you also have a leg up over competitive offers because,
53:31
you know, you can write an offer where you can close in 15 days and you look like a cash
53:34
to offer and because of our standing in the real estate industry or the community here,
53:42
you know, our clients have a 72% offer acceptance rate since the beginning of 2016, whereas
53:51
the average home has six offers on it, which means the average person has a 16% chance
53:56
to get an offer accepted.
53:59
So again, going back to value, I mean, you can get a really low rate from an online call
54:03
center and not get a house.
54:04
Yeah.
54:05
I don't know why you'd want to do that.
54:07
You know, I think that most people would rather get a really competitive interest rate,
54:11
just actually have a much higher probability of owning a home.
54:14
I love that.
54:15
I'm writing that down.
54:16
But not getting a house.
54:17
You can get a really low rate for a bottom line member, but not getting a house because
54:22
that's...
54:23
Yeah.
54:24
You can have your 2% interest rate and sit in your rental for a long time, or you can
54:29
own a home with a really competitive rate with somebody who will ensure that you're always
54:32
in the best rate.
54:33
Yeah.
54:34
That's fantastic.
54:35
And that you feel really confident about the decision made.
54:38
Right.
54:39
Yeah.
54:40
That's awesome.
54:41
Hey, I didn't get a chance to ask you at the front for those that are curious.
54:45
You know, I know you are.
54:46
If I read correctly, you know, I was trying to find out some stats.
54:49
Number one, lender in Orange County.
54:50
That is awesome.
54:51
You know, that's a huge accomplishment.
54:52
I think a bit of a market.
54:53
It's a 3 million people living in Orange County.
54:56
I think two and a half million are low on the originators.
54:58
Yeah.
54:59
You're amazing.
55:00
You may be right.
55:01
But how many families did you guys help last year?
55:06
Just under 399 families.
55:08
Wow.
55:09
That's awesome, man.
55:10
Congratulations.
55:11
You know, obviously, you know, it's funny, man, if I were to get back in the business and
55:15
be active, I'd be like, like, OK, I'm going to work with Ryan Granting.
55:18
That's it because I think you are doing it the right way.
55:21
You've got the blueprint.
55:23
And, you know, how would people reach out to you to know to learn more about you?
55:27
Go to your website.
55:29
Yeah, I think you can go to our website, which is just RyanGrantTeam.com, where you can
55:33
email team at RyanGrantTeam.com.
55:35
And, you know, there's different ways in which you can be a part of what we're doing.
55:40
You know, we are looking to, we're looking at opening, you know, an office space in the
55:44
kind of Croner Riverside area in the North Orange County area and in San Diego and other
55:50
areas throughout, I mean, certainly throughout the United States, but we're starting a little
55:56
more local.
55:57
But, again, my, in bringing people over and bringing teams on, we're really looking
56:02
for people who can grow a team and in giving them the platform and the blueprint to be
56:07
able to do that because, you know, it took me a lot of trial and error to get to where we
56:11
are.
56:12
And now, you know, people don't need to go through those same roadblocks.
56:17
They can have the pathway and we can support them and we can show them exactly who your
56:21
first hire needs to be, your second, your third, your fourth, your fifth, who needs to
56:24
be doing what, you know, what you should be doing versus the team.
56:28
And I think that's one of the biggest hurdles of any originator in America is they can't
56:32
figure out how to get to the next step because they don't have the resources, they don't
56:35
have the support or the coaching to do so.
56:37
And I think, you know, for people to make a decision if they want to change their current
56:42
employment situation, the only reason anybody in my opinion should make a change right now
56:47
is to get better, you know, to learn how to, to grow a really high performing mortgage
56:52
team or just go to work for somebody who's going to provide you leads and that will be
56:57
your, your job.
56:59
But that's what we're passionate about now is helping as many people as possible be able
57:03
to, you know, build a team, run a really strong business and, you know, be more valuable
57:09
to their clients and to their business partners.
57:11
Fantastic.
57:12
Well, I appreciate you being here sharing the wisdom, man.
57:15
You've got a bunch of notes.
57:16
I'll put some links on that.
57:17
As you might know, it's for the book you mentioned, experience economy to your website and
57:20
so forth for those who might want to reach out to you.
57:22
So thank you so much for sharing your time and expertise today, man.
57:28
Yeah.
57:29
Thank you.
57:30
Appreciate you having me.
57:31
You bet.
57:32
And listeners, as always, we appreciate you.
57:33
If you like today's episode, if you haven't subscribed yet, please do so.
57:34
You know how to do that.
57:35
Also, share the love on the reviews, iTunes or Stitcher, let me hear what you think about
57:40
the podcast.
57:41
So thanks for tuning in.
57:42
We'll see you on the next one.
57:43
Bye for now.
57:44
Thanks for listening to Mortgage Marketing Radio.
57:48
One more truth in Mortgage Marketing, get more free training and resources at MortgageMarketingInstitute.com.
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