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Money & Co-Parenting: Avoiding the Hidden Traps · The Conscious Divorce

• speaker-0: Welcome to the Conscious Divorce Podcast on WGSN DB Radio, the show for people who are done surviving their divorce and ready to build something better on the other side. I'm your host, Justin Milrad, certified divorce coach, financial planner, MBA, and someone who did his own divorce completely wrong before figuring out how to do it right. Every episode we bring in people who have frameworks. And have real conversations that the divorce industry doesn't always want you to have. If you're new here, welcome. If you're coming back, I'm glad you're still with me. Here's where today's episode starts. Not with a statistic, with a text message. Two years after divorce that had been settled, like really settled, the kind where the schedule was working, the kids were doing okay, both parents had found their footing, two years of co-parenting that was actually functional. And then one afternoon, a text arrives. Their daughter is turning 15. She wants a quinera. And the question sitting inside that text that no one said out loud is who's paying for it? That message sat on red for four days. Then it became a phone call. The phone call turned into a fight. The fight pulled lawyers back into the picture. And 18 months of genuine co-parenting progress started coming apart. Because two parents who had figured out the schedule, the holidays, and the handoffs had never once talked about what happens when the kids get older and the expenses get bigger. I hear versions of the story every single week: Bar and But mitzvah's, suite 16s, a teenager who needs a car, SAT prep, tutoring, college applications, the first apartment. None of these are surprises. Every one of them is visible from years away. But almost nobody puts them in the parenting plan. Almost nobody has a conversation while things are calm. And when the moment arrives, everything you've built as a co-parenting team gets stress test against a plan that was never designed to handle it. Today's guest knows this world from three distinct angles. As a mediator who sat in the room when these conversations go sideways, as a retired attorney who has read more parenting plans than most people will ever see exactly where the language breaks down. And as a parent who has navigated her own version. Lisa Lisser is a certified divorce coach, a BEH2O child-centered co-parenting coach, the founder of LZL Coaching, and the host of the Divorce Clarity Studio podcast. Lisa, welcome to the Conscious Divorce Podcast. speaker-1: Thanks for having me, Justin. Glad to be here. speaker-0: It's great to have you on the show again. Quick note before we go any further. Everything you hear on this podcast, including today's conversation, is for educational and informational purposes only. Nothing here is legal, financial, psychological, or tax advice. And nothing you hear creates a professional relationship between you and me or our guest. Every situation is different. Laws vary by state, finances vary by household. Please consult a qualified attorney, financial advisor, therapist, or other licensed professional for guidance specific to your unique situation. Lisa and I are sharing frameworks and perspectives, not prescriptions. Now let's jump into it. Lisa, I want to start with something that almost never gets said out loud at the beginning of these conversations. We all go into co parenting trying to be reasonable, trying to be fair, and then money shows up and suddenly we're not reasonable anymore. From where you sit as a coach, as a mediator, as someone who's been through her own divorce, what's actually happening when the shift occurs? speaker-1: So that's a great question ⁓ because you you said in your intro, we all go into co-parenting trying to be reasonable, reasonable. But the fact is, not everybody does try to be reasonable. What many people feel when they're going into co parenting is that they are right. They are certain that they're doing things a specific way, and that way is the way. But when you're in a co parenting plan and Situations arise that are untested, your rightness gets gets jolted, and all of a sudden all the triggers are being pushed. So money in co-parenting is never just about the money because every money conversation brings in your history, every challenge during the marriage, every time a support payment was late is in every single conversation about money. It's about identity, it's about control, it's about unresolved feelings from your marriage because that's still there. We are we're not clearing them, we're just getting distanced from those issues. And when dollar signs show up, all of a sudden we're back in that pool. So for me as a mediator, I see the danger zones clearly. The dollar amount in dispute is never really the thing. That matches this emotional intensity of the conflict. And what I mean by that is that sometimes people will spend days and hours and dollars fighting over s a $60 copay when they're spending so much more just to argue it. And they could have a $4,000, $10,000 issue that they like see as simple and it's done. So the the balance between the emotional impact on the conflict and The issue at hand is disproportionate. So it's not the number. For me, someone who went through her own divorce, you know, I have three kids. We had a co-parenting agreement. We included many of the things you raise as potential landmines, but one issue that was part of it was that we would have a a sort of like a true up at the end of every month. We would have a check-in, we would go over the expenses, and we would make the assessment of which were right, which were wrong, even though our agreement said before you spend any money, talk first. The pattern we got into was talk second. And that led to many, many hard conflicts. ⁓ we learned how to negotiate it so that it became easier as we went down the road, but Each time we had to see that reconciliation, both of us all of a sudden put up our guards. And what you and I want to talk about here is that assessing and following the plan beforehand means you make a plan that you commit to. And that reframe changes everything. speaker-0: And and that makes such a big difference. And I, you know, I see after the fact many plans that that don't really take into consideration the different ages and stages. And while a relationship and co-parenting can go really well, as soon as you bring money in, it shifts and changes the dynamic because you know, both members, the parents, may not have the same financial situation. They may not value things the same. So I'm gonna make a statement and I'm kind of curious what your thoughts are. And the statement is I fundamentally believe that ninety eight percent of parents want what's best for their kids. speaker-1: I'd agree with that. Yeah. speaker-0: Okay. You know how they get there, sometimes the path is very different, but the minute you bring up money, ⁓ that's where things get really complicated. So I want to speaker-1: What happens there, if I could just jump in? Like, yes, the co-parents want what's best for the kids, but when a money issue happens, they they turn off thinking about the kids and start thinking about the conflict. Now it's about their relationship with the conflict, not their relationship with the kids. speaker-0: So they're kind of digging into their own issues. You know, and and we all know, and there's empirical evidence that says it's not divorce that damages children, it's the conflict you know that damages children. So you work specifically with a child-centered co-parenting model, the BEH2O framework, which you and I have talked about quite a lot, and it's really impressive. Before we get into any of the practical stuff, I want to go there first. So when co-parents are fighting about money. and they think the kids don't know, what do the kids actually know? speaker-1: The kids know. The kids know when the parents are fighting. Because even if you don't yell at each other in front of the kids, even if you have like an involuntary look, the kids are aware of everything. I will even share that just recently, after 10 years of divorce, I had my my ex-husband and his his wife came into my Thanksgiving celebration without me knowing they were coming. And I gave a look when they entered the space. And each one of my three kids noticed and said something to me about it afterwards. And now they're in their 20s, but they noticed. So whether anything is said or not, the temperature in the room changes when you're in conflict. And the kids are fine-tuned to feel it. So if you're having an issue related to a purchase for the kids. And you say he refuses to pay, or he says she refuses to put in, the kids are going to sense it and they could even feel responsible because the conflict that seemed like it was quiet all of a sudden bumped up. And it's a something for the children that's the center. So they could feel responsible. And we don't want that to happen. No, yeah. speaker-0: You know, p parents really take this seriously. Do not put your kids in the middle. You know, it it's happened in my own co-parenting relationship where I've been put in the middle where their mom says, ⁓ we have to buy, you know, X kid this and it's gonna cost that much right in front of them. And it puts me in a very uncomfortable situation. And you know, we've worked on that, we talk about it, and you know, now we we try in most cases to talk about it privately, but that just raises the temperature. And we don't want to do that. And it's not fair to the kid. And then I look bad if I say no. speaker-1: Right. Well, because it's a setup. When you raise a financial issue for the kid in front of the kid, they know it's about them and they know what they want. So if it's a thing, if it's, hey, let's talk about a car for your 16th birthday, obviously that's going to be challenging for everyone in that room, especially if the parents haven't discussed it. If you discussed it previously, something specific like a car when they get their license, that should be stated in specific terms in the co-parenting agreement because that heads off the conflict before it can become an issue. speaker-0: So let's talk about the legal reality, you know, what actually holds up versus what falls apart. And we all know that the parenting agreement, when it's negotiated, really represents a point in time. But things happen. Fortunes are made, fortunes are lost, people get married, you know, people get divorced, lots of things happen. So many parents believe that because they agreed to something at the time of the divorce, it's settled. But you've been on the legal side of this. And you've been on the coaching side and you've been on the mediator side. What's the gap of what people think their plan covers and what it actually covers? And then from a practical perspective, just because it's written, sometimes you can make some accommodations if you both agree. So can you kind of talk a little bit about that? speaker-1: Yeah, well, it's really it's really complicated because essentially you have to forecast what is going to happen in the future. And some things you can and some things you can't. Like you can forecast, we expect our children to go to college. We expect that if they go to college, they will take standardized tests, the ACT, the SAT. We know that in our community. Everyone gives their kids tutoring courses for those courses. So what does it mean for our children? How do we plan that? What is the percentage share between each parent if they're sharing the costs? And is there a cap? Is there like if you're applying to college and each application is $150, how many applications are you going to invite your children to use? Is it unlimited? I mean with the with the common app, they can apply to 25 schools at one time. But do they really need to? And what's most effective? How do we make that work? So I just mentioned like 10 very specific factors that are part of prepping for college. And I've been through it, so I know what they are. But if you have a five-year-old, you have no idea what's entailed. In the run up to applying for college. So each of these things you want to get a forecast on by an expert who can help you put it in context. So whether that's a divorce coach or a financial advisor, learn what's out there first so that you don't have open issues 10 years later when your child is now. getting ready to apply for college. Like when they're sixth and in first grade, you're not really thinking about when they're in 11th grade because it's so different and it's just so far away. But it's really important to put the terms in at the beginning. speaker-0: No doubt. You know, and we can solve for a lot of things, but we can't solve for anything. And it's really the high ticket purchases that knock us off our guard. You know, one parent may think, yes, we're gonna buy our child a car and the car I'm thinking about is $35,000. And the other parent may think, well, I'm buying, you know, a ⁓ an eight year old, you know, Honda Civic that's eight thousand dollars. So getting on the same page. is really important. So can you talk maybe about some of those omitted topics that can be included? speaker-1: Sure. So, you know, the car is a great ⁓ example. Because again, let's pretend they're six years old, you know, six, four, and two. How can you even imagine them driving a car? But you know that when you turn 17, you know, your next door neighbor got a car and you didn't. And now you're anticipating that you want to give your kid what you didn't have. And yet you don't really feel like having that conversation with your spouse right now. And maybe you don't think you're supposed to, but the fact is that's the kind of thing you should think about. And think about you know how the support numbers look today, what the equitable distribution or community property asset distribution looks like today, and think forecast 10 years ahead in the future. Like, is it the same ⁓ differential or Will it be a bigger split between who has more and who has less? And how are you going to assess who pays for the car? And I think that's a really important piece of it. You both might agree that you want your child to have a car, but you have a different idea about how much that car should cost. So it's a good idea to put a cap. Look, I don't know what cars are going to cost in 10 years. Right. But this is all I can imagine spending. This is what I spent on the my first car. And give yourself a number that you can work with. And if then you want to have a differential, like a percentage, I'll pay 20, you pay 80%, I'll pay 40%, you pay 60. Great. Up to X amount, this will be the differential. If the car is more, then the Person who chooses the more expensive car can pay the difference. And that can be very specifically and artfully written into an agreement. ⁓ but it's a detail. And again, when we're struggling in those days of feeling pressure and emotions in writing an agreement, we don't think about every detail. So having a checklist of what, you know, what did you have when you were going through high school? What did you need? What did you think you need? What did your parents tell you you didn't need? And have that assessment because, you know, God willing, your kids are gonna grow up. And and that's important to look at way back at the beginning when they're six. speaker-0: And you know, you were you really can forecast, maybe not the exact amount, but you can forecast what their needs are. So, you know, we talked about suite sixteens, we talked about bar and butt mitzvahs, we talked about quincineras, we talked about cars, we talked about SATs. You know, there's a good chance every kid's gonna need some sort of tutoring at some point. You know, so th those are all predictable. The other thing I wanna say is, you know, my ⁓ my eldest turned 16. in October, and we bought her a car. And ⁓ parents keep this in mind. Insurance is outrageous for a 16-year-old, anywhere between, you know, possibly 3,000 and 11,000 is what we were quoted, and it's going to stay for a period of years. So, you know, as you're going through your divorce, make sure you put money aside, whether it's in a 529 plan or a separate account. You know these are gonna hit. So be prepared for it because you don't wanna be hit at a time where you don't have the cash flow and and you haven't really been thinking about it. So that's super, super important. speaker-1: I think it's so important because when you're thinking about planning, you need to actually be planning. ⁓ a 529 is a really important tool to start when the kids are young. Maybe even, you know, before you are even thinking about divorce, start at 529 because costs are gonna add up and you are not gonna know where certain resources come from. And I had a client whose spouse said, I don't want to, I don't want to start a 529. I'm going to be making way more money when they're getting ready for college. But then they got divorced. And so now they're paying out of cash flow and cash flow looks different. So consider your options. Like, and if you have to start it fresh when you're getting divorced, put it in writing, put it in the agreement. speaker-0: Yep, I ⁓ I think that's great advice. There's always the ⁓ topic throughout a divorce about fairness and justice. And and we know that in many cases, you know, income and capability are not going to be as easy to maintain. So, you know, when the one parent who's making less is being asked for more. How would you advise them on getting over the it's not fair argument? speaker-1: So, first of all, it's really challenging to even suggest they can get over it. ⁓ because it's a real issue, it's an emotional trigger. And ⁓ if we can approach this as we are in a business relationship, right? We are in the business of raising two children, three children, however many children together. And in order to see the success of the business, We're gonna have to make certain investments. And investing in our children is something, as you said earlier, 98% of parents really want to do that, whether they whatever they can afford, right? They want to do that. But investing in your kids means maybe taking out the personal. ⁓ they have more than me. Why do I need to do it equal? Like, how could this be 50-50? How is this fair? ⁓ Let's talk about a business. You're two partners, you're investing in something important to both of you. You both want the same stake in that investment. If it was a business. But right now, when you're in the divorce world, you're thinking about inequity. So if we can step out of the inequity of the family that no longer looks the same. And into the business of being committed to our children in a way that they see as the same, that changes the paradigm. And it it can allow a parent to release what's fair to me and return to what's reasonable for our children. And how do I want my child to look at me? Because when there is an inequity in which parent gives more. The children can look at that as a negative for the parent who's least capable as well. And we want to keep the children on the same plane with both parents. And that's something to think about when you're thinking about support and you're thinking about how to contribute to the children's needs. speaker-0: You know, and and parents remember this do not share with your kids the dollar amounts because it's rare that both parents can afford and make the same contribution. And by telling them that, you know, dad paid seventy percent and mom paid thirty percent, you're you're really putting your kids in a very difficult position. And you're putting your mom in a difficult position. So they don't need to know that. And at the same time, if it's something like education, there are a lot of amazing things out there. There's scholarships, there's financial aid. ⁓ don't be ashamed, apply for it. You know, if you qualify, you should be able to use it and then it makes it a lot more affordable, and then your kids able to get, you know, exactly what they want and what they're looking for. speaker-1: And and I think something that's really important to add here is strategic curiosity. Like I want my parents to get curious about how to find the resources to fund what they want to give to their kids. And and scholarships are not something that just appear. Scholarships can can range from like a $50 scholarship. To a $10,000 scholarship and more, but your local community might be offering them and you don't even know. So that's where you get curious. Start asking questions. Go to your house of worship. Find out if they have any resources, but start to get curious, and that can help you, you know, eliminate the difference so that you both feel like you're committed in the same way. And your kids see that you're both working toward their benefit. speaker-0: You know, and and thinking forward, you know, many states do not require college to be included in your settlement. Some offer it, but in mediation, you can put it in there if you want. And you know, you talked earlier about caps. So for example, if you're unsure of what your financial capability is gonna be like, you can, you know, you can say, I am willing to contribute 50% up to what you know fill in the blank state school currently costs. Should my financial situation change, you know, ⁓ at my discretion, I have the ability to give more, I will. Or if I choose to give more. And I think that's really important because that way you're securing that you and the other parent are both going to contribute because that's a concern. Sometimes one parent unjustly says, well, they screwed me in the divorce, so I'm going to screw them, you know, here and they refuse to pay. for these additional expenses because they, you know, they they have something in their mind that they want to get back. And that's just pure wrong. But it's one way of protecting yourself to make sure that your kids get what they need and what they want. speaker-1: But and you also don't want your children to feel like you think your relationship with the conflict is more important than your relationship with your child. And that's that's the danger that we have in falling back on the emotions. And it will happen. I'm not saying it should never happen because you can't help it. We're human. But if we keep in mind, What would it be like stepping into my kids' shoes? How are they feeling when we're fighting over this issue that is so important to them? And they whether they hear it or they don't hear it, you are carrying the fight with you everywhere you go. And if you can release that, if you can sort of take it off your shoulders, you're gonna walk around with more peace, and so will your kids. speaker-0: So let me give you a scenario. ⁓ see how you might handle it. So one parent makes a suggestion to the other parent that ⁓ let's say we need to buy our child a jet ski. speaker-1: Okay. speaker-0: You know, it's they ⁓ they want to compete and ⁓ you know they have incredible skills and they use it at camp and they want to invest in their, you know, freestyle jet ski career. It's twenty thousand dollars. That parent who makes a suggestion to the other parent says, I want you to pay for half. How do you deal with that? Initially you you wanna say no, but you know, is there some sort of framework? ⁓ that you would suggest that the opposing parent goes through to come up to a solution. speaker-1: So that's a scenario where it would have been helpful or it could be helpful if you start to identify big purchases and big purchases that are related to extracurricular activities, right? And what qualifies as a big purchase or a reasonable number, is there a cap? And are there safety issues? You know, it something like a jet ski may be different than a basketball, right? Like those are both extracurricular activities, but much lower investment and much lower danger. ⁓ so or risk, I should say. So those things can be forecast as we talked about, and you can put it in in broad terms in your agreement when they're six. And then walk up to it when it happens. ⁓ you know, I actually have never had the experience of a parent saying, I have to get my child a jet ski. And can you believe how unreasonable they are for not contributing? But at the same time, there are other things like does it have to be the most expensive ⁓ Apple computer, or can it be a lower end model? Can it be, you know, a regular PC? Like those all are different price points and for things that the kids may really need. So those are more realistic areas for conflict. ⁓ but as we said earlier, the cost differential between a 1600 Apple and a 400 PC, ⁓ it might mean a lot to that family or Maybe you split the difference and you say, okay, I could only pay up to X, but it would be great if they could have the top of the line. And I'm not making a ⁓ judgment on which is the better. I'm just making a judgment on which is more expensive at the outset. And you can make a plan for how to approach those things. speaker-0: You know, and and I just want people to know that it's okay to say no for certain things, but you gotta determine how's that gonna affect my child. So the jet ski is probably an easy one. Some of the other ones, and I love the Apple computer example. I think many parents have been through that. You know, do I need a $2,000 MacBook Pro or can I go with a $900, you know, ⁓ MacBook Air or a $400, you know, Chromebook? And there are lots of ways to to think about that. And I think if you want to cool the temperature instead of immediately responding, absolutely not, ⁓ I always suggest, you know, saying something to the effect of I need a little bit of time, I'll get back to you in the next 24 to 48 hours. And then you get to think about it, you get to weigh, you can even have a talk with your kid. You know, why do you need the MacBook Pro? You know, what is it about that that you want? ⁓ that the MacBook Air or the you know $400 Chromebook can't do, you make your case and then, you know, you say what, if anything, you're willing to contribute. And I think that's a great resolution. And if the other parent says they must have the MacBook Pro, then say, well, you're welcome to ⁓ to pay the difference. speaker-1: Yeah. I mean, and that that's reasonable. And if let's say you're willing to pay half of a thousand dollar computer and this is a $2,000 computer, the thousand dollars in the scheme of that family's life over the history, you know, the long, the long range of impact amortized out, really think about what you're fighting over and the value of. ⁓ and make sure that your your child doesn't get a sense of, so my parent doesn't think I deserve the better laptop. That's it's not that. It's it's a question of ⁓ even starting to develop financial responsibility in your kids because at that point your kids are middle school, high school, and for most families that are purchasing that kind of ⁓ product. ⁓ so your kids can start getting financially savvy as well. speaker-0: Fantastic. All right, we're going to move and shift to ⁓ new partners. So from your child-centered coaching perspective, when a new partner enters the financial picture, sometimes with kids, either through remarriage or just through presence in the household, what do most co-parents often get wrong? speaker-1: What do most parent co-parents get wrong? ⁓ sometimes they think, ⁓ well, she's marrying someone who has a really big income. So she doesn't need my child support anymore. that's a big no-no because your new spouse's income is not ⁓ designed or expected to pay for your child's needs. Your ch your responsibility remains your responsibility, and your ex-spouse's responsibility remains their responsibility because your kids are always your kids. You know, whereas a free marriage is going to affect spousal support, it's not going to affect child support because child support attaches to the children. ⁓ Could also happen is not that the parent doesn't understand that, but the parent can start playing games because they know that the child will ultimately get what the child needs because push comes to shove. The spouse has a way of getting what they need for their child. And I I highly discourage that. It's not a time to start playing games. When a new partner comes into the picture, everybody is trying to navigate a new emotional dynamic and threshold. And so rather than load up with more stress, this is a moment to try and ease stress. And that's a hard thing to do. But if you can think about that and stepping into your child's shoes, that's gonna go a long way in preparing yourself, your ex and your kids for a new kind of family. And that's what it's really about. speaker-0: You know, and and parents think about this. You know, one of the biggest causes of divorce is financial infidelity. ⁓ many couples don't have the conversation about finances. And if you're in a new relationship and that person moves in the home and they bring a kid, ⁓ it's important that you have that financial conversation because you only have so much money and you know, your your kids. want to make sure that they feel like a priority. And if that money gets spread even thinner, then it could cause problems. So I think it's just a good practice to have that financial conversation, you know, with your new partner before anything major happens. speaker-1: Yeah, but that's what you're talking about really. We're not, it's very hard to anticipate when you're writing your settlement agreement ⁓ details about emotional boundaries when a new partner comes in. Because what often happens is there there becomes like laying down the law, like I don't want my child exposed to that new person for blah blah blah years. And now it's emotional, it's not as rational as it could be. Because both of you need to move forward. But when you're talking about, you know, what happens when the family merges, that's a whole different thing. And you need your child to feel like they're safe. And fighting over that kind of money at that time is really challenging. speaker-0: That's a whole new episode we're gonna have to do one of these days. Yeah. All right. So a as we near the end, ⁓ we are gonna go to my favorite part of all the episodes, which is rapid fire. Okay. Are you ready? speaker-1: I hope so. speaker-0: All right. Co parent refuses to discuss milestone expenses at all. speaker-1: Okay, ⁓ you write your own blueprint. That's what you do. You write moss, you say this is for the Quincenero, this is for the bar mitzvah, this is for the SATs, this is for the college applications. And you write down everything that you can forecast and what the percentage differential you believe is appropriate, and you share it. You share it because they need to. ⁓ You gotta be reasonable and and that's what's most important. speaker-0: Co parent wants something for the kids that you think is genuinely unreasonable and they're going ahead with it anyway. speaker-1: Hmm. I think that's a space where you you hold your tongue. You don't have to weigh in. You, you, you are living in a space, we didn't really talk about it, but these moments are times to be brief, informative, factual, and firm. BIF is an acronym that was coined by Bill Eddy about how to navigate. Difficult co-parenting conversations and really difficult conversations with difficult people. ⁓ But when you make it brief, you make it about the information, you keep it factual and you're firm, you are reducing the opportunity for emotional dysregulation. And so if this is happening and you think it's genuinely genuinely unreasonable, you have a choice. But what does genuinely unreasonable mean? This is maybe a time to pause and say to yourself, okay, what about this is making me uncomfortable? What's unreasonable here? I call it a pause for clarity. Get the clarity before you respond. speaker-0: Last one, someone's listening right now and has a perfectly fine co-parenting relationship and they're thinking, we're good. We'll cross those bridges when we come to them. What do you say? speaker-1: Look, every co-parenting crisis I've ever seen started with two people who were fine until they weren't. And until this obstacle appeared, they couldn't foresee it. But you have to navigate the obstacle. And if you anticipate it beforehand, you are much more likely to respond to it in a more effective, more reasonable way. speaker-0: Lisa, I want to thank you for being on the episode today. You brought your divorce coaching mind, your legal mind, your mediator's frame, the child's perspective, and your own lived experience all into one conversation. All these lenses in one seat. And that's exactly why I wanted you here. And I know our listeners are going to come back to this one. If you want to find Lisa, and you should, you can reach out to her at LZL Coaching. ⁓ her podcast is The Divorce Clarity Studio available on every major platform. Both links are in the show notes below. And Lisa, what's ⁓ your website for LZL coaching? speaker-1: So it is www.lzlcoaching.com. And on my website, you can access a link for a complimentary 30-minute discovery session. And I use that to offer advice and tools for people navigating the hard stuff in divorce. speaker-0: I love that. And just ⁓ so you know, Lisa and I have worked with many couples where each wants some sort of representation with a coach, and it works very well. And here's what I want you to leave with today, because I know how easy it is to listen to an episode like this, not along the whole time, and then just not do anything with it. So I'm gonna ask you to do one thing before this episode's over. Just one. Think about the conversation you've been avoiding, the one about college. or the consignera or the car or whatever it is that's been sitting in the back of your mind and schedule it, not have it someday. Schedule it. Pick a date, send the message, get it on the calendar, because the only thing worse than a hard conversation is the same hard conversation two years later, under worse conditions, with more money on the table and less goodwill to work with. Spend the time with your co-parent and come up with a solution. You can find me at www.reclaimandreboot.me. My book, U2.0, Divorce a Better Way Forward, is available anywhere books are sold. My new book, co-authored with LCSW Jill Kaufman, the co-parenting playbook, Proven Strategies for Navigating Divorce Conflict, Raising Thriving Kids, is available on Amazon.com. If you want to work together one-on-one, the link to do that is in the show notes and on www.reclaimandreboot.me. And if this episode landed for you, if something we said today shifted something for you, the most useful thing you can do right now is leave a review. Not because it helps my numbers, although it does, but because the right review at the right moment is what puts this show in front of the parent who needs it most, right when they need it. Share this episode with one person, perhaps your co-parent, one friend, one sibling, one person you know who is in the middle of this. The best time to have these conversations is before the next test message arrives. Take care of yourself, take care of your kids, and I'll see you next week.