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Summer Break: 100 First Online Dates · To All the Men I've Tolerated Before

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey Tolerators, it is officially our summer break for twenty
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: twenty five, and I just wanted to let you know
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: that the episode you're about to hear is either Patreon
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: exclusive content I'm making public an episode I thought it
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: would be fun to revisit from past years, or a
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: still comfy movie review with Julia Washington. I hope you
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: have a great summer with lots of great memories. I
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: hope you keep smiling instead of tolerating, and I will
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: see you in the fall with all new episodes of
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: To All the Men I've Tolerated Before. Hey Tolerators listens
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: To All the Men I've Tolerated Before with Natalie Katona,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: the show where my guests and I chat about not
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: just the perils of the patriarchy, but also the pitfalls
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: of dating in general. Today's guest is voice actress Maria Maria.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, now I'm stuttering Maria Pendolino, and she
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: has been so kind to delve into her experiences with
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: online dating and tracking ninety seven first dates. I wonder
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: if most people actually tally how many first dates they've
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: been on, and like if people know their number, because
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: I know we keep like bedroom partner numbers or at
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: least like TV told us we should and then have
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: fights with people about it.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think people when I tell them that I
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: went on ninety seven first dates, I feel like people
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: react like, oh my god, that is so many. But
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: actually I think if everyone kept a tally, especially in
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: the way that we're dating today, yeah, where you know,
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: with the apps, you're able to try on a lot
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: of different people, like really really quickly. I bet that
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: my number is actually not that uh, not that outrageous.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: But I always remind people that the dates took place
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: over thirteen years, so it wasn't like ninety seven first
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: dates and like a hot six months in New York, baby,
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Well, and then people like do that cute thing where
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: they're like, I'm going to do a year of yes,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: and I'll never say no to any opportunity that presents
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: it to itself to me. And I bet you those
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: people could have gone on like three hundred and sixty
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: five dates if someone asked you on a date every.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: Day, if you're in the love section of like Eat Pray, Love,
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: and you're just like going for it like one hundred percent.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: I did not read Eat Pray Love. And it's probably
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: because it came out when I was like in my
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: defiant age, and I was like, I don't pray this
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: book has nothing to do with me.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: I remember reading it and liking it, but also just
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: like I don't know I was. I was in like
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: my mid twenties, I think when it came out, And
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: the one thing that I had like the most problem
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: with is that this woman had enough money to like
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: abandon her life for these three different like journeys and like, yes,
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: she was like a freelance writer, and like this was
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: obviously well before like the digital nomad culture took off
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: where you could do your job from literally anywhere. And
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: I was just like, you know, I was living in
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: New York City like very much paycheck to paycheck, like
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: rent payment to rent payment, and like if I needed
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: like a little bit of money, like I'm sure I
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: could have asked my parents, like, hey, can you spot
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: me two fifty or something, but like I didn't come
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: from wealth. I didn't come from money. So this idea
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: of just like oh, I'm just going to travel internationally
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: to three large countries for an entire year like that
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: just seemed like completely unfathomable to me. Yeah, and I
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: know that she like got some money and like the
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: divorce or whatever, but like still, maybe it was just
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: because like I was just like way too into the
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: different things that I needed every day, Like the idea
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: of being able to live so small each and every
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: day because you're on a very, very fixed income. I
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: don't know, but that was the thing that I had,
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: like the most problem with in the entire story is
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: just like how does she have enough money to do
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: all this shit?
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: That mirror is why I broke up with the Bachelor
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: franchise because I'm like, I can't watch these very white
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: people just like get to go on lavish dates while
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: like everything crumbles and inflation is so high. I can't
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: like have soda when I want it.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: Like, who are all of these like sales executives and
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: dental hygienists that like just get to like leave their
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: lives for however long the Bachelor takes to film. I
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: think they're I think they're all like aspiring actors and
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: models fama, and then like whatever they also do.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: My favorite is one of them when one of them
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: claims to be a teacher, and I was like, you
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: may have been a teacher, but you're not a teacher
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: now because no principle would risk a parent seeing you
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: on ABC getting drunk in a hot tub, Like, like,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: that's not how teacher culture works. We are supposed to.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: One time we went to a place downtown and they
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: have like a replica of an old schoolhouse, and they
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: like handed us the rules that the school marm had
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: to like follow curfus like purity rules, all of it.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: And I was like, they make teachers still follow that
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: in the Midwest. Little known fact like gets posted in
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: all of our class roots.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Oh who is the time?
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: Who has the time? But we're supposed to be talking
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: about your online dates?
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: Back to me, please, back to you.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: What prompted the idea to not only like delve into
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: online dating, but to like also track your progress as
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: you were doing it.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, I guess I've always been like a project
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: manager at my core, and I love to see like
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: the results. But that actually wasn't the impetus for me
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: starting it. When I started online dating, there weren't as
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: many options as there are today, so it was pre
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: apps and like you know, the Tinder and bumbles of
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: the swipe left and swipe right. My very first online
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: dating experience came from the website hot or Not dot com,
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: where you would post a picture of yourself and then
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: people could rate whether you were hot or not. And
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: I put a picture up there my senior year of
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: college and someone actually like messaged me on the site
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: and was like, I think you're cute and I actually
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: live close to you, Like could I take you out
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: to dinner? And like, of course I did everything wrong
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: on this date and like didn't even like know his
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: name or tell anyone where I was going, Like that
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: absolutely could have ended up with me in a ditch
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: somewhere outside of Bingham to New York. But when I
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: got after college, I moved to New York City and
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: I started using Craigslist personals, So like I would post
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: a personal saying like this is about me, Like if
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: you like what you hear, like send me a message,
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: and like I would get like fifteen or twenty messages
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: from guys, and I would like curate that down to
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: like one or two to go on a date with
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: the problem that I had is that I could not
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: remember what I had told each of the dates as
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: they like started to happen, like did we actually have
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: a phone conversation, Like have I already told him about
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: my family? Have I already told him what I do
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: for a living? And I felt like I was managing
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: like eight different pen pal relationships at the same time,
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: because like people would be like, oh, hey, I'm out
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: of town for work, but I'd love to get together
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: when I get back, and it's like, okay, that's great.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: But like I was just honestly like struggling being able
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: to keep track with like what each of them had
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: said or like what we had planned. So initially keeping
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: track was literally just to help me keep track of
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: like the guys, and like I definitely was not sleeping
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: with all of them, and like many of them, to
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: be honest, like didn't get past the first date. Like
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: so you know, they quickly moved from a like in
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: progress status to like a project closed status, But it
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: wasn't as convenient as it is now, where like you
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: see on Tinder or bumble, like you see all the
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: people that you're talking to and it's all in one
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: place and you can very easily just like swipe left
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: and like delete a conversation if like this one's gone cold,
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: like gone this one like we went on a date.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: There was no spark like gone and you like can
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: keep track of your inbox with the way that I
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: was like sourcing men from Craigslist. I had some people
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: that I was communicating with over email. I had some
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: people who I was talking with, like actual conversations on
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: the phone. Texting was still not like the thing yet,
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: so like maybe some I was texting with, and I
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: just had all of these conversations happening in like three
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: or four different places, and it was hard to keep up.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: So that's why I started the spreadsheet, and like I
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: would put their name on the spreadsheet and just some
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: thoughtful details that came out either in their opening to
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: me or in some of our conversations, like John plays
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: the violin, Dan works at Bank of America, you know,
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: Rory showed up in pajamas on the first date. Whatever
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: it is, you know, just something thoughtful to remember them by.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: And over the course of thirteen years, I just kept
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: adding names and thoughtful details to the spreadsheet, and I
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: like ended up like totaling it up and realized that
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: over the course of thirteen years, I had gone on
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: ninety seven first dates.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: You should turn it into some sort of coffee table
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: book like you should, or like a like a weekly cartoon,
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: like a web tune. I wish I did that when
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: I just met people organically, like an event. Have you
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: ever like really connected with someone because you're at the
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: same concert or something and add them on Instagram and
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: then you see their post and you're like, how do
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: I know this person? I put people like where it
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: says company on the contact When you're adding a new contact,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: I'll put like book Club. This is Sarah from book Club.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: This is how you know her. And I've started asking
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: people to honestly, when I text them the first time,
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: I send them a contact photo, and I go send
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: me back a contact photo, so there's no reason for
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: me to be confused when we're talking honestly.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: What you've just described is what happened to my Facebook
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: account and why I decided to deactivate it because as
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: an actor like I have met so many people in
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: like a one night class or a seminar, or we
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: did an off off off, off, off, off, off off
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Broadway played together, so you have like this intense friendship
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: for like three weeks, and then you never see them again.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: When the pandemic hit, I had so many things in
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: my news feed from people that I absolutely did not know,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: and the way that Facebook's algorithm changed, like you were
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: seeing like when somebody liked or commented on somebody else's thing,
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: that all that else person like I was not connected to,
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: so like I was getting like all of this like
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: news and go fund mes and like lots of people's
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: like really unfortunate opinions about things, and I was like,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: there is so much information from people I am a
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: thousand percent not friends with. This is not helping me anymore,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: like two to lou Facebook and truly like not being
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: able to like keep track of like all of these
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: digital acquaintances like literally like ruined the whole experience for me.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: But I very similarly like have been trying to like
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: do a much better job of like when I add people,
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: like if you if you are strong enough to get
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: added to the contact book on the iPhone, like yes,
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: like putting some notes in there, because it's like we
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: cannot trust the brain to remember who's Sarah without an
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: h's exactly.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: And I mean I am one of those people where
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: you will give me one detail of your job and
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: then I will make up an entire career with about you.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: And I don't know if it's because I'm a former
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: high ability kid, if it's the undiagnosed, untreated at ADHD.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: But instead of just asking you, hey, what's your job,
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: You'll give me some detail and I'll be like, John's
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: a brain doctor. And then you'll catch me at a
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: party telling people that you're a brain doctor, and you're like,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: excuse me, what are you doing. I'm a pharmacy rep.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: I'm over here, and I'm like.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: Actually incorrect, please correct, And it's.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Actually, namely the most incorrect thing you've ever said. I'm like, Ooho,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: hot or Not? Because hot or that was the press
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: predacessor to Facebook. Right, That's how Mark Zuckerberg is that
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: on the social network. How he came up with the Facebook.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: I don't know if the website Hot or Not was
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: part of the gestation, but that is kind of the
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: seed of his idea for Facebook, was people being able
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: to rank how good looking people were, like class by class.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't know that it had a DM function.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know that I did either until it
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: until it was happening. But yeah, like I just put
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: up a picture that it was like a picture I
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: cropped like half of a picture of me from like
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: wearing a Halloween costume and like just had a little
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: bit of makeup on, and I thought I looked cute.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: I was wearing like a bedsheet as a dress or something.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: I don't know, but that's how it all started. That's
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: how it all got started.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: That's how it all got started. In general, would you
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: say you were a person who really enjoyed online dating,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: because I have this very nostalgic viewpoint of how, like
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: my grandparents just got to meet at a soda shop
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: and woened that have been cute too.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think my online dating experience is
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: like framed and colored by the fact that I am
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: a plus size woman, And I think I just assumed
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: that meeting someone organically like the meeting in a bar
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: or at a concert, or kind of like the happenstance meetings.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: I think I had just written that off and decided
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: that nobody was ever going to choose me because of
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: my body. So I wasn't going to be like a
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: happenstance meeting. That the thing that was going to snag
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: a boy for me was going to be my personality.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: And of course that was spoon fed to me from
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: everything in the media and whatever, you know. So for me,
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: I think I looked at online dating as an opportunity
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: to present my personality as like the thing, and you know,
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: when it got to things like match dot Com and
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: okaycubid where you can actually like write a profile and
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: like really kind of put out there, like exactly what
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: you want to put out there. And I never like
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: hid my body type like I put you know, headshots
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: and body shots up there. Like I wasn't. I was
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: absolutely not trying to bait and switch anybody about like
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: what they were buying at the store. But I felt
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: like it gave me the opportunity to like put a
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: full portfolio forward as opposed to just you know, just
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: the body or the or the instant attraction kind of thing.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: Like the instant attraction is the thing that generates that
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: magnetism that brings people together and then they find out
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: that they're actually super compatible and how great that they
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: met at the soda shop or wherever. And it was
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: just kind of that that feeling or like my own
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: like value and belief system about my body, which was
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: one thousand percent systemically ingrained in me by America and
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: the media. But that's how that's kind of how it
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: started for me. I also to your point about like
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: how your grandparents met. Midway into my online dating journey,
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: I read Azizansari's book Modern Romance, where he really unpacked
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: a lot of what people in the like you know,
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: tail end of gen X through the millennials and elder
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: millennials were experiencing in this kind of like analysis paralysis
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: of the apps, like having so much choice and you know,
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: you can set your radius to however many miles, and
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: like all of these people that you wouldn't encounter in
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: your daily life compared to the way that people and
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: our parents and our grandparents generation paired up. Like a
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: lot of times it was always like only one or
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: two you know, trees removed from somebody's family or friends.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: Like it was very much like a community thing. And
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: like the amount of square miles between you is, you know,
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: far fewer. But you know, my husband and I are
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: a really perfect example of how the modern romance structure worked.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: He and I lived in different towns, we went to
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: different high schools. We really didn't have any friends in common.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: We were not kind of running in the same circles
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: or places, and without Bumble as our introduction engine, we
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: probably would not have met. But we are extremely well
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: suited and I'm delighted that we did meet. So it's
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: kind of a for me. That book really kind of
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: opened my eyes to what meeting organically really meant and
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: like how often that was actually happening for people in
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: our generation, especially at that time I was living in
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: a major metropolitan city like New York City. I think
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: people in places like New York City, La Chicago, Atlanta
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: probably have a much different experience with you know, online
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: dating versus people who live where I live now, like Buffalo,
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: were kind of like that, you know, the outer ring
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: like third Ring cities where the dating pool is smaller
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: to begin with and you don't have people who are
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: aspiring to be something that they're not and therefore are
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: constantly putting you know, false foot forward. So yeah, I
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: think the the my my own belief my own belief
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: system and myself and like that whole thing, and like thinking,
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: thinking that I wanted to go outside of kind of
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: the normal quote unquote normal like organic meeting pool. That
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: kind of shifted and shaped how I chose to attack
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: online dating.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I so I remember building my first dating profile,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: and I think not my first dating profile, because my
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: first dating profile was match dot com, and I think
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: I have built it right before. They also instituted a
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: spy being function, because it used to just be you
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: would get an email of people and they'd be like,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: do you like these people? But I remember when I
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: set up my bumble and it was like for the
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: swiping purposes, and I was like, you have to include
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: what I called like honest pictures of your body because
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: if you show up to a restaurant, you're going to
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: be able to like see it on that dude's face
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: if you show up and he then realizes that you
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: are plus size. And that's how guys like feel tricked
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: and they get like volatile if they feel tricked or whatever,
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: and they'll be rude to you and you'll cry at
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: a Chili's and no one wants to cry at Chili's.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: So I remember very much feeling like there was a
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: pressure to like make sure that my body was like
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: shown at all angles, so I again couldn't be accused
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: of like catfishing you, and which is odd because in
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: high school I was a huge cat Fisher. Like we've
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: talked about how like I was born into the generation
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: of AOL chat rooms and all the fun that I
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: had in there, and when I never sent guys on
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: AIM or AOL like fake pictures and I never sent
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: them pictures of myself. But when I would describe myself,
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: I would use coded language where you might assume that
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: I was plus sized, but I was not going to
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: come out and tell you that I was plus size,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: because then I assumed that you would stop talking to me.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: Are you talking about my favorite word curvy?
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, curvy, you know, buluptuous if I could figure out
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: how to spell it that day. I think I have
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: an odd relationship with my breasts to where like I
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: became very lase fair about my breast and like would
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: use them as a baiting material. So I would always
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: like hit home that it's like, well, don't worry, like
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: I gots to die for or something, and like just
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: like really focus on that, and then it'd be like,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: and just think about the women who have tits to
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: die for. Most women who have tits that are this size,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: it's because they're plus size, Like they also have the
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: body that matches as right, So yeah, I just and
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: I remember there being like there's like such a pressure
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: to like also come off as like flirty and care
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: free about who you are as a person when I
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: feel like you're on the female side of dating apps,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: and when I'm swiping on men's profiles, I feel like
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: sometimes there's just like this, like I'm going to tell
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: you all of the things I don't want, all of
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: the things that I do want, and all of the
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: ways that I've been like fucked around before, and you
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: better not do that. I feel like there's such a
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: difference between how men and women build their dating profile.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: I have a couple of friends who are still actively dating,
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: and I am always flabbergasted by the amount of men
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: who put things that women must do in their profiles
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: like must be fit and attractive and take care of herself,
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: like must know how to have a good time, must
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: know blah blahlah blah blah. And it's like, where do
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: you get off by giving the person that you haven't
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: even met yet a list of requirements like yes, everybody
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: has taste and preferences like one thousand percent, But like
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: when it gets down to like actually naming activities like
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: the woman that I'm with, must go to the gym
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: three days a week, you know what, go fuck yourself?
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Like it's just it's just outrageous that they that they
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: feel that they feel entitled to state that. You know,
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: you can you can certainly feel that way, and you
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: can certainly like have that as a preference, but like
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: to just openly state that, like, hey, if you match
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: like eighty to ninety percent of my coreache area, but
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: you don't go to the gym three days a week,
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: like just keep walking. And it's like, oh lord, just
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: where do they get that mediocre white male audacity.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it was like my naive tea
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: that then just carried on into my adulthood, but I
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: assumed when building my profile, I was like it almost
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: became like, well, the profile is to sell myself, not
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: to actually tell you what I want, because I'm also
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: actively swiping, so I can do all of that work myself.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: Why would I talk about the other person?
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: Like why can't it just be like why can't you
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: just put up your shingle, like, yeah, this is who
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: I am, Like, this is what I do, Like why
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: does it have to be about the other person's like necessities?
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: And traits like actually, like I'm here shopping for you, bud,
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: So instead of spending all your characters telling me what
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: I have to do in my life, why don't you
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: tell me why you don't suck?
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So that's like one of my huge red flags,
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: and it happens when I'm swiping on women too, where
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: it's like if I can instantly tell like what a
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: former partner did that pissed you off repeatedly or really
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: just like knocked you to the floor or anything, and
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: I can tell it just by reading your dating profile,
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: then I'm like, oh, I'm gonna go ahead and walk
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: away from all of this that you haven't taken care
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: of on your own, because I love the like you
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: better not like video games? Okay, I guess someone decide.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: Who you dated played what you determined to be too
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: many video games?
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: Yes, and you're right, and you're still harping on it
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: and now no one can play video games. Were there
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: any when you were doing online dating? Eat? Did you
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: like craft your immediate list of Like this is a
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: red flag and no, thank you.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: I'm very much turned off by poor spelling and poor
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: grammar yep, especially on the apps now, like Bumble and Tinder,
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Like you only have like three hundred characters or something
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: for each one of the sections, it's not hard to
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: just like put a good foot forward and like that
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: to me was just like if you don't if you
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: don't care enough to like spell things right, then I
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: definitely don't care enough to swipe. I don't know, like
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: whenever someone was like the work hard, play hard mentality,
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: like to me, that's just like so not what my
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: life is about. I kind of tried to keep an
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: eye out for the people that were, like the consultants
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: that were like like technically had an apartment in New
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: York City, but spent Monday through Friday, like literally somewhere
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: else working at a client site. So yeah, they've got
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: a sweet apartment in Turtle Bay, but Monday through Friday,
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: they're definitely in Lexington, Kentucky, or Columbus, Ohio, or somewhere
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: else that's not where you are. No offense to Lexington
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: or Columbus. I'm sure they're lovely, but that's not where
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: I was living, and I didn't want to date someone
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: in those cities. So in New York there was a
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: lot of that because a lot of the huge consulting
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: firms were there, so I was trying to sniff out
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: the people who weren't actually like around. I don't know
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: if there's anything else like huge red flags. I just like,
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: you know, I was just looking for people that seem
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: to have posted like relatively like recent honest, true pictures,
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: people who could write some cohesive thoughts in their profile,
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: and you know, roughly were in the age bracket I
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: was looking for, which at that point was like twenty
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: eight to forty, Like, it was a pretty wide swath.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: So yeah, besides the laundry list of rules that I
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: have to agree to just to go to coffee with you,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: I also don't appreciate if messaging, and the whole point
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: of messaging is to want to meet in person, like
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: just the like, no effort to ask a question, answer
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: a question.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: This this to me, this is the This is the
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: epidemic of male female online dating. I certainly cannot speak
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: to what's happening in the same sex communities, but for
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: all of my friends who are still online dating, and
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: it was certainly my experience as well, the lack of
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: effort on the part of men in the transaction prior
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: to the date. So that would be communication, either via
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: the messaging app itself or text messaging or phone calls
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: or whatever, where like you would ask a thoughtful question
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: to like actually get some sort of conversation going, and
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: they would be like yeah or no or simple answer
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: and then nothing, no follow up question, no open ended
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: questions for you, No, like hey, so it's like we're connecting.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: Do you want to go for coffee or something? And
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: this was something else that I picked up from Aziz's book,
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: was I stopped having like really really thoughtful, meaningful and
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: deep conversations via phone, text or the messenger features on
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: the app because I realized I was just wasting my
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: time with a lot of guys who were using Bumble
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: and Tinder like solitaire, like the same way that you
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: would play Solitaire or Angry Birds on your phone. They're
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: just swiping, swiping, swiping, and they actually have no intention
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: of meeting up with anyone, whether they're single or not,
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: who knows. So I moved immediately from like, oh we matched,
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: like hey, great to meet you. Did you want to
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: get a drink this Friday? Are you available for dinner
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: on Thursday? How do you feel about meeting up on Saturday?
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: Like I would just jump right to it, and the
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: guys that were actually interested in dating and meeting someone
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: responded really well to that, and we're just like, yes,
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: Thursday sounds great. And I would usually if they would
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: say that, I would like, hey, here are two of
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: my favorite places. Why don't you pick? And I always
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: picked places that I was very familiar with. I knew
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: the parking situation, and like would feel comfortable, like if
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: I had to exit because I was feeling uncomfortable on
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: the date. Like I felt like these locations like set
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: me up for success, and like the guys again that
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: were like actually interested in meeting like responded really well
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: to that. I would usually give like a bar option
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: where I knew that there was seating, or a restaurant
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: option that was like pretty casual. Yeah, And most of
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: the guys picked the bar option, which was totally fine. Like,
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: you know, drink is a little bit less commitment than
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: like sitting for a meal with someone who you're absolutely
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: not enjoying their company. And that's how I knew my
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: husband might be different because he picked dinner and I
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: was like, oh, cute, little guy hasn't been ruined by
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: online dating it and he wants to sit down and
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: have dinner. That's chearming. But yeah, I was really I
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: was really not surprised at the number of guys when
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: I started moving to that kind of like using the
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: apps only as the introduction engine, not using them as
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: conversation engine, jumping right to like trying to get together
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: like that. Weeded out fifty to seventy percent of my
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: matches immediately, which showed me how many people were not
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: using the apps to actually meet people.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: Right, Because I also remember I would have like weeks
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: long conversations with people. I'd be like, oh my gosh,
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: we're connecting. You're funny this that, I mean, we have
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: so much in common. And then you sit in front
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: of them at a restaurant that you've picked or a bar,
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: and you're like, did you google your answers to my questions?
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: Like is that what you did?
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: One hundred percent? You spend these three weeks, like you know,
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: working up all of these conversations and like you're really
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: like feeling that flutter like ooh, I think I found one,
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: and then in front of you they're an actual like
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: just lump of wet fish. Yeah, Or you spend the
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: three weeks having these great conversations and they're witty and
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: they're funny and you're excited, and then they disappear and
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: like the digital ghost is like gone, and it's like
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: I've spent this all of this time getting to know you,
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: letting you get to know me. I've shared a lot
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: of information. Where did you fucking go? Yeah, And that
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: was so frustrating to like put in that energy and
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: effort have it to not even materialize as a date,
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: Like I didn't even get to see if we were
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: physically compatible, if there was a spark, any of these
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: things that was taken completely out of the equation because
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: you just fucking disappeared. And I was just so sick
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: of that. I was just so sick of putting in
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: the effort to be funny and charming and interesting like
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: in every conversation, only to have it turn into a
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: complete non connection on the date, which like no harm,
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: no foul, like we're just not a connection. But like
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: I really would have liked to known that three weeks ago,
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: or you know, spending three four weeks talking to someone
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: and then just having them like literally disappear in within air.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. One of the other patterns that I run into
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: when I go on dates with men that I've had
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: online connections with is and I've attributed it to my size,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: but I've also attributed it to my personality. Is really
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: big and it takes up a lot of space in
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: the room. And I don't know if that always comes
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: across in text message, but I'll go on dates. We'll
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: spend hours talking because you're enthralled with me, and I
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: love nothing more than an audience. And then at the
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: end of it, I get the so you are really fun.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: I'd love to do all of the things that you're doing,
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: especially with you, but I absolutely don't want to date you.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: And you're like, well, what the fuck? How am I
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: perfect but not perfect to date?
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think sometimes And this could be like guys
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: or any significant other, like when you're just on a
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: different wavelength from like an energy standpoint, and that could
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: be an extrovert introvert thing. That could be like, you know,
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: being bold and rambunctious versus being like quiet and reserved.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: Like I had a guy once, like we went on
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: a couple of dates actually, and then when I reached
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: back out to be like, hey, did you want to
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: like go on another date, he told me that I
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: was intimidating, and like, I mean, I honestly can't even
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: think of like what would have happened that would make
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: him feel that way. But you know, I feel similarly
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: like I have a big kind of gregarious personality. I'm
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: definitely the kind of person that like likes to be energetic,
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: like in conversations and like wants to participate in things
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: and enjoys being enjoys being an instigator or a creator,
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: like I'm coming up with ideas for dates, like I'm
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: happy to like plan things like I'm the one in
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: the group, you know, text who's you know, booking the
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: beach house for the seven girlfriends who are going on
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: a vacation. Like I'm definitely that person and like I
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: know that and I own that, but like to have
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: someone be like I don't think I want to date
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: you anywhere because I find you intimidating. Like I'm not
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: like Sylvester Stallone, right, I'm not like Steven Sagal, Like
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: what about this is intimidating?
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Oh, I once had a partner who I dated for
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: a while. This was how he broke it down for me.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: When we were breaking up, he said, it's hard to
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: feel special in your life when you bring that much
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: fun and exuberant energy to everyone and everything that you do.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh, because in my mind, the opposite
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: of that sentence was I expected us to go out
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: and you would just kind of like stand there silently
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: while I got to do the fun thing, and then
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: at home you'd be a freak in the sheets, but
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: a lady in the streets. And I was like huh,
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: and he's like, yeah, I mean, it's just like really
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: hard to feel special when you're making everyone feel special.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, I wasn't doing that on purpose, and
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know how to turn that off.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: So it's like when you when you say the reverse
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: to them, So like, let me just give this back
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: to you. What you're actually looking for is this, like
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: do they not see that that's ridiculous.
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: And misogynistic and you wouldn't ask, like, no one would
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: ask Aziz as sorry to not be funny at a party,
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: like he's funny, we know it.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's but that's that's kind of like the that's
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: like the kept woman mentality, right, like don't speak unless
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: you're spoken to. I'd prefer it if you didn't like
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: talk to everybody at the party, but you would actually
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: just like stay by my side and let me introduce
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: you to people. Like it's just I mean, yeah, we're
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: we're moving into Handmaid's Tale territory there.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: If you I have found that my personality and the
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: way that I socialize and the ease that I socialize
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: in any new situation, and it's not like I don't
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: know how to talk about this without it seeming like
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: I blame myself for it. But what it ends up
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: doing is it ends up like highlighting the fragileness of
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: your security in the group. Because if I'm having an
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: easy time, well that means that you're having a harder time, right, yeah.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: So why is that your responsibility? Also that that could
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: be a whole other episode of doesn't meant men who
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: need a keeper?
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, men who need a keeper. And I think when
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: you end up being a loving, carrying, exuberant person, someone goes, oh,
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: you will be my mommy and you will teach me
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: how to make friends. And I'm like, fool, I don't
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: have time to teach you how to make friends because
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: I have friends and they're like, oh yeah, percent while
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: you were tracking people. Did you notice like any like
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: strong patterns with the men that you were going out
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: with where you were like, huh, this is a way
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: that men really do think it's appropriate to date people.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Or did you notice, like were you able to pinpoint
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: the exact moment where like, because I think that there
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: was an exact shift when dating mecame like, oh, people
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: go on match dot com because meeting people is hard,
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: and then like dating apps almost becoming the Amazon of dating,
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: where it's like literally you could have it all and
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: probably in two days shipping.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know that I noticed any specific patterns
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: or like a real shift, but I will say I
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: I guess the majority of my dates were just like,
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: you know, on a zero to five scale, like three satisfactory.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: You know, like nothing bad happened on the majority of
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: my dates out of all ninety seven. I don't really
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: have that many horror stories. They were all just generic. Yeah,
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: And like I think people that I wouldn't have come across,
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: you know, in my regular day to day life. They
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: weren't people that I had friends in common with. They
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: weren't people that you know, I knew from you know,
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: quote unquote back home or from college. They were just
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: like a person in the universe that I happened to
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: like find throughout thegarithmic or whatever properties, and like we
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: sat across from each other and shared a drink or
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: a meal for anywhere from thirty minutes to an hour
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: and thirty minutes, and most of them ended right there.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: So of the ninety seven guys, I think I went
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: on probably ten second dates, nine or ten second dates.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: And of the nine or ten, I actually dated like
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: three or four people where like we actually, you know,
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: were communicating off of the platform that we had started
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: talking on. We were like scheduling and meeting each other
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: after work or whatever. But I never actually got to
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: having the conversation about being in a committed monogamous relationship
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: with anyone except my husband. So of the ninety seven
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: that filtered down to ten second dates, yep, like five
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: people that I dated more than twice and one person
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: who I agreed to be in a monogamous, committed relationship
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: with who then I eventually married. Like that was my
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: that was my sales funnel.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: Like that's a big funnel.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: That's what it took to happen. But I don't know
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: that there was any specific patterns that emerged for me.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: My turning point was not talking to people before the
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: date like that was really my big turning point, and
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: saying I'm not going to waste the energy in getting
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: to know people until I know are you interested? Am
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: I interested? Like circle yes or no for both of us.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: And now you can ask me how many siblings I have,
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: and now you can tell me everything that you do
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: for work, and now I will tell you about my
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: career or whatever. But I didn't want to have any
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: of those conversations before meeting in person because it was
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: just exhausting and I honestly could not go through like
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: with my thumbs, like typing those like stories and stuff
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: one more time, right.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: I used to keep notes where I could copy and
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: paste my answers to a certain quies. I'd be like, well,
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: there it is. Like it got to the point where
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: I was getting lazy about it. But I did notice
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: one phenomenon, not with the men that I was dating,
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: but the outside people who knew that I was dating.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: The closer I got to thirty, and the more I
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: would go, I'm not gonna see him again, he was boring.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: The more I got she did she maybe given another shot,
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: because like first dates are hard, and like, you don't know,
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: it sounded like he had a job.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: I'm like, the barrier to entry is just getting lower,
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: and right, sounded like he had a pulse.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: Right, it sounded like he paid for your coffee. And
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: it really floors me because I wonder if, like anyone's
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: mother is telling their son like, hey, maybe she was
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: just nervous. Maybe like you could give it another shot.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: But I feel like on the other side of that
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: dating app, there's this whole world women that when they
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: go on these mediocre dates, they almost get told like,
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: how dare you find your date mediocre? Someone wanted to
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: date you. I don't know if it just happens to
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: me because I was unfortunate looking in high school, but
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: it happens.
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think there's definitely a there's definitely
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: a power dynamic at play. Right, So, if at any
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: time you're on these dating apps and you are anything
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: other than what is described as conventionally attractive by the media,
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: like your default position should be grateful, like grateful that
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: anyone matched with you, grateful that anyone was willing to
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: talk to you, and that just fucking blows as a
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: like social dynamic and a hierarchical structure. But what I've
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: always found interesting, and most of the sites and apps
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: confirm this, is that there are far more men on
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: online dating sites than there are women. And you know,
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: that's how match dot Com got like caught like putting
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: up like fake pro files of both men and women
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: to keep users engaged because there was such an imbalance
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: of number of users like looking for you know, the
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: particular gender that they were attracted to. But I always
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: find that fascinating that like women seem to be in
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: the marketplace, like being like it's almost like it's our
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: responsibility to like go out there and like put ourselves
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: out there and like be available on these apps. And like,
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: you know, Bumble has it like integrated, right, like the
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: women have to strike up the conversation. I don't know
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: if that's still the case, but when I was using Bumble,
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: like if the match was made, the women had to
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: speak first, you know, And that was ostensibly so that
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: the men were not starting with a dick pic. So
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: it gave the woman some agency that she has to
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: start the conversation and it won't be just a picture
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: of a penis to start. But like that continually puts
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: the onus on women, which I think is both cultural
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: and systemic, that like, we're the ones that have to
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: we have to show up on the app, we have
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: to be present, we have to start the conversation, we
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: have to drive the conversation, we have to plan the date.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: And the assumption is is that the men are just
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: there in droves like waiting for us. It reminds me
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: of like, you know, they would like, you know, they
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: like brought boatloads of women over, like after the first
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: Pilgrims came because there were guys here and no women,
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: and they're like, we need whys git the boats, you know.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: And it's kind of that same mentality that like, Okay,
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: so there's you know, it's a maybe it's a sixty
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: forty ratio. There's the app is sixty percent men, forty
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: percent women. So the women have to work all that
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: much harder to meet the expectations of all of these
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: men who are joining the apps and droves. But from
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: what I've like my anecdotal evidence that I speak with,
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: you know, my male friends, whether they're gay or straight,
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: and when I share with other you know, partnered people
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: who didn't have to be a part of that. When
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: I or my friends shared some our experiences and whether
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: they were just horror stories or numbers, the men in
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: our lives who we love as our friends are always
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: horrified to hear like what we've had to go through,
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: like what we've had to endure, like what men have
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: done out there in the wild or not done, as
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: the case might be, like not asking questions, not furthering
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: things along, not making suggestions, all of those things. And
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: I'm like, are we just left? Are we just left
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: with like the less the lesser thens? Like are there
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: all of the organic meetings happening with the great guys
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: that we've all been spoon fed from romantic comedies? And
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: actually all the guys on apps are just the leftovers?
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: Like I don't think that's the case. I met my
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: husband on the app. He's definitely not a leftover. But
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: why is the why is the power dynamics so inherently
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: skewed in what seems to be in favor of men?
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: And is it just from the social and societal conditioning
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: of women to be like the maker of things, like
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: that responsibility falls on us to drive the things? Or
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: is it something else and is it more insidious than that?
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: And I actually, I'm sure you know, Bumble and Tender
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: have all of the data to tell us that it's
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: probably a lot more insidious than that. But I don't know.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: I think I'm following the creator of Bumble.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: I don't think she has anything to do with Bumble anymore,
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: but I know that I'm following her on Instagram and tolerators.
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: Let's flood her dms with so many requests to be
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: on the show and just talk about it, because what
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: you're talking about is something that I also see that
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: just seamlessly happens in my relationships too. I in fact
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: have an entire note on my docs or in my
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: phone or something, and it's called heavy lifting, and I
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: track instances where I know that emotionally and mentally, I
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: was naturally made to believe that I had to do
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: the majority of the work. And one day I will
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: turn it into an hour long special of comedy because
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: it's just ridiculous, and I think it starts at the
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: very oh I had a starting point for it, and
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: then I got off track. But it's just it's one
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: of those things where I don't know if it's because
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: we used to be sold to men to be their
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: wives because of dowries and things like that, but it's
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: like you have to be the catching thing, and because
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: we're constantly told that men only care about looks and
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: they only care about getting laid and they don't want
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: to invest with you, you have to do the work
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: so that they like your personality, so they care about
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: how you treat your family, Like you have to be
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: constantly like throwing that in their face or else they'll
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: never look at you more than a meat sack. It
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: does a disservice to them. I would love to ask them, like,
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: how do you like how like media treats you guys
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: while you're dating high school? Like do you like being
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: Danny Zukos? Is that fun for you?
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: I think part of the problem is they're not even
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: thinking about it, yeah, like because they're not even getting
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: wrapped up in it, you know. I think women have
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: so many different societal roles that we are being conditioned
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: for since birth, but then we're also like being told
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: to like fight against it. And it's like the Nike
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: commercials with you know, Serena and Venus Williams telling us
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: that we're all powerful and we can all you know,
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: run a two minute mile or something, I don't know,
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: like we're we have to be all of these things,
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: like you have to be like happy Susie, homemaker and
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: all of these like emotional and mental labor things. But
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: also you have to be like really powerful and strong,
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: and you have to be like a boss bitch without
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: being bossy or bitchy, and you know, you have to
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: like you know, tamp things down so you're not hurting
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: people's feelings. But you have to be ambitious because otherwise
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: then you're just boring and like all of these different
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: things that are just like coming at our and then
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: we're all left like in our little girls girl circles,
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: like analyzing messages that we get from guys that we're
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: dating and trying to decide should I respond now or
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: do I wait, because like we're supposed to be playing
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: a game, And then like you're referring back to the
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: script from He's just not that into you and like
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: wondering if like you're doing it like right according to
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: like these romantic comedy rules that we were all fed,
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: like you know, in our in our early like formative
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: years and it's just I feel like we do all
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: of these things, and I feel like men do not.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: And it's not that it doesn't occur to them, it's
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: just that no one expects them to do that, right,
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: Like no one expects the men to be sitting around
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: a table analyzing a conversation trying to figure out if
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: a guy is into you or not, or if you
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: should be emotional and honest yet or not, or you
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: don't want to scare them off yet, you don't want
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: to seem too intense, and all of those things. Like,
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: I just don't think that guys are sitting around having
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: those kind of like Monday morning quarterbacking conversations about online
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: dating or messaging or dating in general. And women are
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: doing all of this additional like emotional and mental labor
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: to try and make things happen right. And I don't
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: know why that all became our responsibility when the thing
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: that we were like conditioned from in an early age
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: was like the Disney Princess and the chivalry, like the
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: prince is actually supposed to show up and like knock
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: on the door. So like, why are we tying ourselves
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: up in knots trying to decide whether or not we
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: should send the Prince another message. You know, how did
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: it get so skewed? And how did we get so
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: far away from how did we get so far away
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: from some sort of equal balance of power?
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah? We we just did Grease on another show that
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: I'm producing with my creative partner, Jules Washington, called Still Comfy,
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: And we just did it on Grease, and I was
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: talking about I was like, you know, Sandy always gets
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: dogged because she's the one who quote unquot so changed
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: herself to fit what Danny wanted. I go, but Danny
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: started it I go. For the majority of the movie,
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: Danny is running track, giving up smoking, trying to pretend
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: like he can give a shit about her brain or whatever,
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: trying to like keep his friends at a distance from her.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: And Jules made the point she was like, I actually
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: looked into it, and before Greece, it was always men
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: in the movie who changed themselves according and made themselves
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: softer for women. So Sandy was revolutionary because she made
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: a change herself for her relationship. Whether or not it's good.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: I just thought, I was like, maybe Sandy just saw
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: I can do it better, like I see you trying
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: and I see you failing. I bet you I can
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: stick this landing.
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: I mean if putting on like a leather boostier and
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: tight pants and heels like constitutes like real change, Like amen,
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: Like it's just he was he was attracted to her
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: from the get go, right, but then it was his friends,
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: Like he was embarrassed that he was like attracted to
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: like the nerdy girl in the sweater, but like she's
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: still the same person. Like, Okay, great, she had a
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: you know, dramatic real home makeover. Great, good job, but
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: like just this idea that like this idea that we're
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: like a different person around our friends, right. I think
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: that's one thing that's really rooted in the Grease narrative
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: is like when he's away for the summer, like he
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: gets to be this person and that's who he really is.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: But then when he's Danny Zuko like with all the
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: guys and you know, the pink ladies are flitting around,
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: then he has to be something else. And I think
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: a lot of us felt that way in high school.
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: I felt like we felt like we were part of,
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: you know, some kind of click and had to like
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: match that click. But when we were at summer camp
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: without anyone from high school. We've got to be a
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: completely different person and a different click that again, could
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: be a whole other episode of like, uh, you know,
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: age age sixteen to eighteen, like personas listen.
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: With the way that Congress is going, the podcast will
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: never be irrelevant. So I agree with that, but it
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: like it boggles my mind because while while I was
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: trained to be so assertive in like convincing men that
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: I was the trophy that they wanted to claim at
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: the end of the rat race, the flip side of
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: that was and then once you grabbed me, I do
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: a complete one eighty, And I'm so passive because it's
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: like I don't know whatever you want? What do you
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: need today? Like what's going to trigger your fragility today?
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: Like how do we make sure that we make you
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: feel strong but also cuddly and well fed? And did
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: you nap? Like it just becomes and then my default,
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: because I get frustrated being the person and who's doing
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: the heavy lifting, is to do none of it, which
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: means like, if we're going to Chili's, we're going to Chili's.
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: If we're watching a movie, I hate, we're watching a movie.
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: I hate because now I have decision fatigue.
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think for me, like I I have always
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: been more comfortable being like the organizer and the person
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: like bringing the things to the table. And I think
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: that's just been my personality from day one. Like I
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: definitely know that some of my friends like went home
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: from my house like crying to their parents' circa age
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: like six or seven, because I was like, we're playing
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: barbies today, and like that was the mission at hand,
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: you know. But I think, you know, my husband and
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: I have a very modern relationship. I work, he doesn't.
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: I happen to make enough money at my job. Buffalo
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: has a pretty low decent cost of living, so we've
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: just created this kind of like reverse structure of like
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: the Donna read Leave It to be Ver nineteen fifty stuff.
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: So I work all day and he is what we
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: refer to as the domestic engineer. So he's doing the
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: laundry and loading the dishwasher and scooping the kitty litter
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: boxes and all of that kind of stuff. And that
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: works for us. But it's a constant conversation, right, and
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: it's a lot of checking in on each other on
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: what the other person needs and it shouldn't be revolutionary
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: that that's how our relationship works. It shouldn't be like
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: shocking to someone that that's how it works, that we
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: have like constant resetting of expectations and are frequently like
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: asking and checking in on what each other needs. Like
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: that's actually just being like a nice human being in
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: this world. And it's really sad that so many people
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: grew up with expectations of relationships that don't include being
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: able to recalibrate as people have their needs change.
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: Well, and I think somewhere along the way we forgot
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: to actually like get to know the people that we
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: were marrying. So it was like I did it. I
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: went to college, some other dude was doing some other major.
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: I'm marrying him. I had children with him, and then
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: like my kids turned fifteen, they're almost out of the house,
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: and I'm looking at him and I'm like, what do
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: you mean your favorite color is purple? Like, you know,
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: you just like you're so focused on again the rat
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: race of dating that you forget that there's a whole
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: other person on the other side of your marriage.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's totally true.
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: And I tell people all the time when it comes
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: to whether or not I'll get married. I'm like, here's
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: the thing that scares me about marriage that you actually solved.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: I was like, I can go through seven different iterations
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: of myself within a calendar year, So that person is
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: going to have to relearn me seven times a year,
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: and that takes a lot of communicating that I don't
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: think has been modeled for a lot of us about
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: like what do you do when your partner comes home
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: and is like, I don't want to be a CEO
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: of a fortune five hundred company anymore. I want to
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: paint in the woods. Like what do you do?
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it. It takes a lot. And I
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: think also like we're learning that, you know, the the
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: definition of success that I think we were fed like
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: you must go to college, you must get a job,
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: you must be constantly promoted and have your salary increased
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: by five point seven percent every year or whatever, like
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: all of these things. I think the pandemic really helped
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: people realize that, like, there are things more important than
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: climbing the corporate ladder, And it showed a lot of
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: people that like all of the speak of companies telling
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: you how much they care about you and value you like,
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: went right out the window the moment they installed like
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: mouse tracking software to make sure that you were moving
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: your mouse to the eight hours that you're being compensated
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: for work. And I think people started to realize like
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: what was actually really important to them, And it came
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: back to family, and it came back to time, and
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: it came back to space and togetherness and all of
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: that stuff. I hope that you know, people in our
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: generation and the generations that follow us and the generations
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: that came before us, like, I hope they continue some
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: of these things now that the world has returned to
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: some sort of semblance of normal, even though the disease
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: rages on and still kills a ton of people every day.
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: I hope that people remember, you know, the change of
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: heart that they had, you know, in some of those
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: early days when they got to spend a lot more
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: time with their family versus you know, commuting back and
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: forth and all of that stuff. But that type of
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: behavior informs our relationships, our modern, healthy romantic relationships. And
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: you know, I think we we as a generation can
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: certainly model, you know, what healthy relationships look like to
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: you know, our children's generation and things like that. But
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: it has to be systemic changed too, right, So you know,
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: at the beginning of the pandemic, we saw how many
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: more women left the workforce after making you know, great strides,
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: you know, still being paid what is it, seventy three
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: cents on the dollar with the wage gap, still having
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: you know, constantly coming into like TikTok and instagram reil feeds.
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: I'm seeing people finding out that they're being paid less
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: than their male counterparts for the same job and then
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: being told that human resources can't just like adjust their
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: salary and fix it, that there has to be like
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: some sort of time period and review period, and like
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: how long do you have to sit and be compensated
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: less than the person sitting next to you? Like how long?
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: Like what's what's the waiting period for that? Right?
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: And you know how much how much workplace gain that
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: women lost in the pandemic because it was just assumed that,
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: like they would immediately return to some sort of primary
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: caregiver role. Or how many women shared stories that were
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: written about in articles about how like their husband just
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: assumed that like his zoom meetings would take precedence and
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: he would get the spare bedroom for his office and
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: the wife would be like happy using the dining room
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: table and stuff. And you know, these are people who
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: are in their thirties and their forties, like these aren't
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: These aren't baby boomers, These aren't people who are supposedly
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: the ones who hold these outdated beliefs, like these are
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: your friends from college. Your friends from college are assuming
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: that their wife is going to take care of the kids,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: is assuming that they can have the office, is assuming
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: that their meetings took precedence. So you know, even as
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: we model the behavior like, it's still happening and it's
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: still insidious in people in our age group. So you know,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: until we see until we see some kind of like
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: true equality across the board, whether that is like actual
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: legislation that says you literally cannot pay a woman less
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: and everyone has to frickin fix that in five seconds
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: or less, until we see you know, women's positions being valued,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: until we see some freaking actual like maternal care and
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: like postpartum care and like actual some time, like until
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: that happens, like I think we will continue to see
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: this power dynamic in relationships and in dating where women
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: have to do more.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I tell a lot of my friends when they
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: tell me stories of their marriages, whether or not they should.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: I always end it with and I don't know how
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: you stomach it, because I refuse to be undervalued in
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: the home that I lay my head to rest in, Like,
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: I don't want to live in a place that I'm undervalued.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: I'm already undervalued in my country, in my office, at
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: the grocery store, I'm not believed at the doctor I go.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: So why would I also come home and know that
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be undervalued?
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: And why is it the norm?
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: It's the one place that you should have a quality.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the one place where no and again, naivete,
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: No one should have gone into the pandemic and had
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: to have looked at their partner and gone, oh, that's
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: how you see me, And that be a complete wipeout
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: to you. And again that system system made it.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: Now I can't say the word, but that happens too
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: because we're too busy to actually know how our partners
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: view us, because we're not spending time with them. So
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you've locked me in a home
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: with a person I've been married to for twelve years,
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: and you're sitting there one day going huh, that's how
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: you see me. And it's the same way that your
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: doctor that didn't listen to you, or your boss who
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: talked over you at a meeting, or your dad who
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: never took the time to get to know you as
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: a human also valued you. And you're wiped by it.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it took a lot of people
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: by surprise, mm hmm.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: And I do. I get really sad about it, but
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: I also refuse to not go well, that's okay, people
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: go through the ups and downs. I always say, no,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: that means that you're not valuating your home. That is
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: a problem.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: Totally agree.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: So on the podcast, we have these two traditions. We
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: kind of sum up our greatest lesson from either the
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: conversation or in this case, online dating, and then we
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: take all of that big lesson that we've learned and
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: want to impart on other people, and we manifest a
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: little positivity for the people who are either struggling with
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: this or honestly didn't know that online dating was a
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: struggle for women or anything like that. So, in your
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: ninety seven first dates and this wonderful husband that you
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: have because of it, what was your biggest lesson or takeaway.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: I think my biggest lesson was, at the end of
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: the day, you can't win the game if you're not
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: in the game. And you know, knowing that these are
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: the dominant ways to meet people, I would say my
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: positivity manifestation is to just to put yourself out there
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: and you may need to take breaks. You know. I
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: definitely did not date steadily, like through the thirteen years.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: There were definitely some six months breaks, one year breaks, whatever.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: If you get fatigued, like, certainly take a break. But
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: it can happen. I am one hundred percent prof positive
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: that it can happen. There are people out there on
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: the apps who are actually looking for partnerships and are
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: looking to find a person that they can build a
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: life and a home with. And I would say, you
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: have to be you have to be in it to
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: win it. And then I would also just encourage people
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: to like actually be themselves and like, don't put forward
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: on the apps what you think people want or what
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: you think the people that you're looking for, the age group,
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: the gender, whatever, what you think they're going to swipe on.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: Don't start it on a falsehood. Like, actually just be yourself.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: Have a friend take some pictures of you today. Put
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: those up there, not your retouched acting headshot that you
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: took your senior year of college. Like, put you and
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: yourself out there, and also just believe that you're enough.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: You are enough for someone out there. There is someone
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: in the wide wide see, there is a fishy for you,
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: and they won't find you if you are not being you.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: So my advice is to put yourself out there. Got
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: to be in it to win it, and actually put
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: yourself out there, not some idealized version. Don't wait until
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: you've hit a weight loss goal to put yourself on
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: online dating. Don't set some you know, strange barometer for
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: when it's okay to do it. You are enough, put
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: yourself out there.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: I think my biggest lesson is that there's like, because
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: this was a hurdle that I had to take a
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: break from online dating and get over, there's like no scorecard.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: So if you go on a bunch of mediocre dates,
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: that's okay, And it's also not a reflection on me
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: being a mediocre date or a bad date or anything
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: like that. If I'm not clicking with the people that
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: I also just happened to be meeting. You meet several
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: people a day, you can just release that pressure that
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: swiping on an app puts on things from time to time.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you absolutely don't need to bring high stakes into it.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah right.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: I would actually say, just like, assume it's not gonna
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: work out r and not like not that it's going
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: to fail in a spectacular fashion, but just assume that
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: the majority of people that you connect with are going
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: to be a human being who ultimately you do not
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: want to slide into. And then you know one isn't
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: you know? It's the there's an audio going around on
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: Instagram right now, like that's my clownfish. And it's like,
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: you know, women or men like showing their partner like
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: wearing a really strange poncho or like you know, taking
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: on a very strange like home project or whatever. Like yeah,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: it like there's one weird clownfish for you out there.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: But I think Dan Savage, who does the Savage Love
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: Cast and writes his column for The Stranger in Seattle,
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: his phrase, which I have kind of kept in my
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: mind all the time, is every relationship fails until one doesn't.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: So like the numbers are with you that the majority
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: of dates you go on will be bad and just
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: not not again, not terrible or like spectacular fashion, but
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: just like not good, like not someone you want to
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: see again, not someone you had a connection with, not
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: someone you were attracted to, not someone who you had
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: to spark with. The majority will be like that. So
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: when you set your sights on knowing that that's the case,
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: and manage your expectations, then when someone comes along who
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: surprises you, then it'll be that much sweeter and you'll
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: recognize it that much more that it stands out from
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: the crowd.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: And then I think my manifestation would go along those
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: lines too, where it's once you release the pressure of
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: it all that then freeze you up. And I hope
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: that everyone is being discerning about the people that they're
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: partnering with, going on dates with, multiple dates with, because
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: I don't want anyone else to be knocked to their
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: knees when five years into a marriage they understand how
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: undervalued they are in that relationship and you were just
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: a tick on a list of things to complete.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say, remember that you're trying them on too.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: It's not just them trying you on and trying to
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: find a partner it's also you like you have agency
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: in this. You have the ability to say, actually, you know,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: while you are very attractive and I like you and
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: we had a good time, this actually doesn't work for me.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: And you have the power and agency.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 3: To do that.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: And I hope that our culture starts to reflect that
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: when it comes to the media and the literature, and
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: honestly just the messages as older women, as parents, as
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: whatever we give to young people who are entering relationships
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: is and it's just because you're the girl in the
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: relationship doesn't mean that you have to be the one
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: putting the pony and dog show on so that they
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: know that they want you. They should just want you. Agree, Yeah,
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: go ahead and tell the tolerators thank you so much
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: Maria for having this conversation. It was really fun. Go
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: ahead and tell them where they can connect with you.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: Sure, so you can me on all the socials at
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: Maria Pendo m A R I A p E N
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: d O. My voice acting website is voiced by Maria
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: dot com. If you want to know if I am
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: audio stalking you, I probably am because I have lots
• 1:10:14
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• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: so you can see some of the stuff that I've
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: worked on recently on my website. And yeah, happy to
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: connect on social media.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and tolerators, you know the deal. There's a link
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: in the show notes and in our Instagram bio at
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: Men I've Tolerated Pod. That's where you can join us
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• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: It finally happened. And remember, tolerators, you don't have to
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: smile through anything you're tolerating, including being made to feel
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: like if one bad day was really bad but you
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: haven't gotten married yet and you're approaching thirty, you should
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: give that guy three more times to disappoint you. Smiles
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: are for joy. Hi everyone, thank you for checking out
• 1:11:30
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• 1:11:34
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• 1:11:37
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