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How to Create a Referral Explosion in Your Business · Mortgage Marketing Radio

0:00
In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with
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real estate agents is essential for success.
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However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge.
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With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents,
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it can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections.
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Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Cogill is a must-read.
0:25
This has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals.
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And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships
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with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business.
0:39
To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy
0:45
of the case study today.
0:47
You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million
0:52
in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can, too.
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Don't miss out.
0:57
Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today.
1:18
Welcome to Mortgage Marketing Radio.
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And brought to you by the Mortgage Marketing Institute, your number one source for truth
1:24
in Mortgage Marketing.
1:25
Hey, Listers.
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What's up?
1:27
This is Jeff Zimfer.
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Welcome to another episode of Mortgage Marketing Live.
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That's right.
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Mortgage Marketing Live.
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Why?
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Because the episode you're going to listen to today right now is a repurpose of the live
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broadcast we did on the Mortgage Marketing Institute page and in the Mortgage Marketing
1:45
Radio podcast page as well.
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My special guest was gracious enough in that she stuck through some of the technical
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challenges that we had with a broadcasting live.
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But we've edited, I believe, most of those out.
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So this should be an enjoyable experience for you, just as a listener.
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If you're not watching the video of this and only listening to the audio, they should
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be a great lesson for you all about generating business referrals without asking.
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My special guest, Stacy Brown Randall.
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This is probably the most eye-opening, thought-provoking, emotionally charged conversation.
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I think I've had a long, long time about asking, getting, receiving referrals and a plan
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for doing that because most of us when we ask, what are we trying to do, ask for referrals?
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But it's more than just the ask.
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It's how to ask and Stacy takes us through her entire process for asking for referrals
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and, hey, you know, key point is its relationship before referral.
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So I really enjoyed this conversation and we've got plenty of resources that Stacy makes
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available for you here.
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One is her book, which is generating business referrals without asking a simple five-step
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plan to a referral explosion.
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We put a link to that in the show notes so you can definitely check that out and some
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additional stuff that is available for you as you listen to this podcast.
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I think this is a great one for you as if you're listening to this in your mortgage
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originator.
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Obviously, you're asking for referrals from clients, from referral partners.
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And by the way, feel free to share this with your real estate agent partners because they,
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of course, ask for referrals as well.
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And there's more than just one source of referrals.
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So I think you really, really enjoy this conversation that we unpack with Stacy.
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And before I forget, if you're looking for more resources on succeeding as a mortgage loan
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originator, go to mortgagemarketinginstitute.com, go grab our limited time offer right now.
3:43
We're going to be taking it down soon.
3:45
But it is the ultimate guide to teaching agent classes.
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Go check that out.
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It's a free download as a thank you to you for a listener.
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And so without further ado, let's get into this week's show.
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Stacy, so glad you're here.
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You are all about, let me make sure I bring up your web page and we're going to put links
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to the resources and all that kind of stuff here.
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And people ask you what you do for a living.
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You tell them what?
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So it depends on if I'm being cheeky or not, but I may tell them I'm going to belong
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with their mind.
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Now, what I actually tell them is, what's the advice you've always heard about how to get
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referrals?
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And typically, they're going to tell me ask and I will say to them, what if I could teach
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you a process of how to generate referrals where you don't have to ask?
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And that is effectively what I do.
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I teach people how to generate referrals without asking.
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That doesn't make no reason other work involved, but I teach them how to get referrals without
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asking without having to pay for them without having to be overly promotional or gimmicky.
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Yeah.
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And that's what really caught my attention is without having to ask, because we're so
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conditioned to ask, like ask early, ask repeatedly, ask at the end.
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And so I'm definitely, and I'm just so everybody knows I'm going to be bouncing back and forth
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between screens and my phone to drive interaction.
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So if you're here watching on the Facebook's, give us a shout out.
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Let us know where you're watching from.
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And I know you've got a lot of great resources, like a book and all that.
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We'll give people an opportunity to get that at the end.
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But what's the hardest part about teaching people, you know, a better way of asking for
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referrals?
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You know, it's interesting when I go through the process and I explain like why you shouldn't
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ask for referrals and what you can do instead and what does it look like and what are the steps
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and they're like, I get it, I get it, I get it.
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And then yet, they're still stuck on this 30, 40 decade old advice, but don't I have
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to ask?
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I mean, still at the end, don't I have to ask?
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And it really is getting people to understand that there is a different way.
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It really, I mean, I think a lot of people say this, but it really does start with the mindset.
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It's just that ability to recognize that, yes, I know you've been hearing for decades.
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But if you want to referral, you've got to ask for it or you have to network, you know,
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incessantly, I know all these kind of people in network and you have to spend all this
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time and energy and resources doing to get referrals, it's just getting them to see past
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that.
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That there is another way and that it's possible, like that's typically it's like getting
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them over the, okay, I believe you, but do I believe you?
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And then typically they have to put some things into practice and then they're like, oh,
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well, this is 10 times better.
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And I was like, I told you it would be just had to get there.
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Just believe me.
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Yeah.
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So quick shout out to Nathan from James Town, North Dakota.
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I thought it was cold where I am today.
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I got to imagine it's cold or where Nathan is today in North Dakota.
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So thank you for tuning in.
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Okay.
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So most of our viewers are in mortgage, mortgage brokers, loan originators, right?
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That kind of stuff.
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Maybe some real estate agents trickling in.
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I know that one of the main sources and I know you've worked in this industry before
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you've been on other podcasts, Gen du Plesses, one of our mutual friends.
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So for my viewers who haven't heard your suggestions or strategy for how, let's just
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take real estate agents first, right?
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Because we know that's like one of the main sources of business for mortgage loan originators
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is build a relationship.
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Hopefully I add enough value that I reciprocate back to referrals.
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Any coaching suggestions, best practices on either approaching that relationship or the
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ask?
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Yeah.
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So the number one thing is is that let's be honest.
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When you are attempting to develop a relationship or strengthen a relationship with a realtor,
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I know what you want.
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No one's an idiot here, right?
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Like if we're not like, you know, coming in like the wolf and sheep's clothing, like
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that's not ultimately what we're trying to do.
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But people forget they lead with their own intention so much.
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And I find that's when I'm teaching people how to turn non-referral sources into referral
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sources.
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So you've identified a couple of realtors that you would love to get business from, right?
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Like they do, they sell the big houses where they need the big jumbo loans and that's
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your specialty and you really want to cultivate a relationship with them.
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Most people will lead even when they convince themselves they're not, but they'll lead with
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what they ultimately want out of it.
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How can I make it easier for you?
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How can I work with your clients?
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Give me one that I can test, right?
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And as you can see how I work and how quick I am and how great I am and all those pieces,
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you're still always leading with yourself.
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And whereas ultimately, the realtor does want to know that you do a really good job and
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that you can get a deal across the closing line.
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What they're really interested in is actually how you care and show that you care about them
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because there are a bazillion of you they could send their business to, but what they're
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ultimately after is working with someone who gets who does a great job, but they actually
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have a connection in some level of a relationship with.
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I don't mean you grab drinks every Thursday night, isn't what I'm talking about, but that
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you've actually put some time and energy and effort into developing a relationship that's
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more about them than it is ultimately about you.
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Okay.
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So when do you think is the right stage in that context of mortgage loan originator realtor
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to broach the subject of the ask or, you know what I mean, because like you said, it's
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kind of the way it elephant in the room, right?
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Everybody knows that that's hopefully the outcome of this, but is there a timing that
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is best to approach that with?
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So I'm never going to teach you to pay attention to any type of timing that would have you
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then ask that realtor for referrals, but that is fundamentally the one thing that will
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shut down a consistent stream of referrals coming.
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I'm not telling you that you can't ask.
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There's lots of people who ask, there's lots of people who love asking, and they're not
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my people, right?
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But those people definitely exist.
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And the reality of that is that they may ask and they may get one or two referrals, but
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what they don't recognize is that setting the relationship up to where you're going in
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for an eventual ask definitely puts you in a specific, like a specific thought process
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within that realtor's mind.
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The truth is there are tons of opportunities, and this is ultimately what I teach for
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you to plant referrals seeds with that realtor that you're trying to develop a relationship
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with.
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And ultimately, this is the piece that people miss.
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Yes, I don't want you to ask, yes, you can plant referral seeds that kind of generate
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them thinking about you from a referral perspective, and there's some simple ones we can
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talk about.
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But the ultimate idea here is that I don't refer you because I'm actually trying to help
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you grow your business.
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I refer you because I have a client that needs a solution that I think you can provide.
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But I'm only going to think of you if you're actually staying top of mind and we have a
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relationship and you've actually tried to help me.
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You want me to remember you?
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Help me first.
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And I don't mean give me a referral because it's not always back and forth in that way.
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And so I don't teach it in that model.
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But when you have a conversation with that realtor, and I'm hoping you'll plant some referral
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seeds, but in addition to that, figure out what it is they need.
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Are they, do you have a conversation about you're both raising teenage kids and you're
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both pulling your hair out?
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And it really is terrible.
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And are you trying to grow your businesses and you got these kids?
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Well, then maybe it's sending them a parenting book after the fact, right?
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I don't know exactly what every situation will entail, but there's always a conversation
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that you can have where you can actually make it about them and do something for them.
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And then you start thinking, because think about it, Jeff, when someone does something
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nice for you, how does it make you feel?
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Yeah.
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You want to reciprocate, basically.
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You know what?
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It's kind of how God made us.
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It's like how the whole human race thing works for those of us that are not dead inside.
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And obviously there are some that didn't work for, but the reality of it is that that's
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how we're created is to like want to help other people.
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So when we get help, we're more willing to help, which means you've now moved into that
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top of mind awareness.
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You're not just that keeping in touch or that top of mind awareness and a relationship
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can be developed.
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And if you're planning some simple referral seeds as well, now you're starting to get
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into my subconsciousness of how I think about you.
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And that is ultimately what I want you to do.
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And that's what I want you to do when you're just trying to turn someone into a referral
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source.
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There's a different strategy I want you to take when they are referring you and you
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just want more or you want to make sure you're the only one getting them.
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All right.
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We'll cover that next, but I want to hang out on this topic first of like even approaching
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that the topic of getting a referral.
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And again, for those that might be just joining us, what's up Stephanie?
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Good to see you.
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You know, we're talking about the context of a mortgage loan professional meeting with
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a real estate agent and you know, the whole conversation of getting referrals and all
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that.
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What you've just illustrated for us here, Stacy is, in my audience, we'll know this.
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But and it sounds, it's one of the things that we've heard about for such a long time,
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but few people practice it.
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Maybe we can unpack that a little bit, but it's relationship before referral.
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That's basically what you're saying, right?
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It's relationship before anything.
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All right.
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I like that.
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Even better.
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So you're saying that us as professionals in sales and business and all that, right?
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If I kind of take kind of the key thing of what you said about that is when you are having
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a meeting with a potential referral partner, it's not about the referral.
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It's about what you can do for them.
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Yes.
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Ultimately.
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Will it develop into more?
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Yes.
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Right?
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And then the idea here is that you'll follow a process that allows it to make sure that it
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actually does.
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But the reality here is is that when you sit down with a realtor and it's very clear
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what you're ultimately after, what would it be nice for you to actually be a breath of
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fresh air and be that, right?
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That loan officer that's not like, okay, so let's talk about who you work with and let
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me tell you what kind of process I have that I can put your people into like, why don't
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you just be like, hey, let's just talk about business, like we're both business owners
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or you work for someone, but you're still responsible, right?
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For your own generation and your own leads and your own revenue, like let's just talk
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about business.
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Like how's it going?
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Like be of the breath of fresh air to that realtor.
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And that will actually have you be, you'll be more remembered that way than anything else
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that you do.
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And I know because so many people get stuck in the, but if I don't ask and I don't talk
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about business, they won't remember me in that way.
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I'm like, trust me.
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They're not remembering the 32 other of you's that they've met with who led with that
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first, what they're going to remember is, whoa, I had a conversation with Jeff and guess
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what?
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We talked about work, we talked about my work and then we talked about life and we've
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got things in common.
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I like him, right?
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And that starts that no like and trust factor that you ultimately need.
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And I'm not saying it's going to work perfectly with every person you meet with, right?
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You don't connect with everyone, but the reality is depending on the volume of closed business
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you need.
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Now, let them lead.
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That has a lot to do with your closing ratio.
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But I'm not the amount of closed business you need every month, right?
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Most people don't need hundreds and hundreds of referral sources that they're trying to cultivate
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a relationship with.
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Like you teach, you're going to get other ways to bring in leads and you should be doing
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those prospecting and marketing ways.
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But the referral piece should be a piece of the puzzle and it should be a piece of your
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pie as well.
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It just, you have to operate in that space totally different.
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And here's why.
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When I'm doing prospecting activities or I'm doing marketing activities, I'm ultimately
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talking to the end user, right?
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Ultimately, I'm talking to the person that I want to eventually either bring me their
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clients or their clients going to find me and then I'm going to have leads that I can
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do business with.
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But when you're in the referral space, you actually are never talking to the end user.
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You're not talking to the client that needs the loan, right?
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You're talking to the realtor who knows the clients that you ultimately want to work
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with.
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So there's not a sales perspective happening here.
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Is that do I trust you and will I put you in front of my clients?
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But that comes with us having a relationship first and me liking you.
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And that's the piece that people forget.
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That's interesting.
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Hey, Kenny.
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What's up?
15:17
Matthew, how are you doing?
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So, do you think people should, because this isn't necessarily natural, do you suggest
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people to focus the conversation not on you, but on them?
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Is it a best practice?
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Or maybe have some questions laid out to ask in advance?
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Yeah, it's interesting.
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For some, this is going to come completely natural.
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They're just going to know how to have a conversation and they'll probably enjoy it more, because
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they're not worried about what work stuff they're going to attempt to talk about.
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But for others, where this is a little uncomfortable, absolutely.
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If there's some questions that help you, I mean, I've definitely helped some people figure
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out, like, what are the questions we ask?
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And my favorite thing was I was working with the CPA and they're like, I don't do networking.
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I'm like, well, your firm wants you to do networking, so she's like, well, I don't know
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what to say.
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And I'm like, well, then let's come up with some safety questions, right, so that you
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can hold it out of your pocket if you need them in case.
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So, but ultimately, what this is, what you're asking them about is you're trying to make
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a connection with something you guys have in common.
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So, you're going to talk about business.
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You're going to talk about life, right?
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So, when somebody else has kids and you have kids, right, that makes a connection happen.
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And it's just a matter of you actually acting because you are curious about the other person.
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And then I always recommend you're going to walk out of there and have a lot of stuff,
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like take some notes, right?
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Like, take a couple of minutes and write something down that you actually learn about folks
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because that's actually how you remember it from that next time you run into a minute
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networking event, you're like, hey, your daughter was getting married.
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How did go?
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Was it amazing?
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Did you survive?
16:47
Right.
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And I know this doesn't come natural to most people, but the ability to have a conversation
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with someone when there is actually a commonality there, it will be easier.
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And the more you do it, the easier it actually gets.
17:02
Absolutely.
17:03
So, if anybody's not noticing in the notes, get ready to submit your biggest challenge
17:06
with referrals or question you have about referrals in general.
17:09
So, I got a question for you, Stacy.
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You said this doesn't come naturally to most people.
17:13
Thought that popped into my head when you said that was, I find that a little bit surprising
17:18
if we are in sales, which is a people business, do most people not have that natural kind
17:25
of curiosity, what do you say to that?
17:28
Yeah, so I mean, I think lots of people are really capable of having conversations with
17:32
folks.
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And they can go to a barbecue and have a conversation and hang out.
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It's when we layer in the idea that, hey, by the way, you need to make money, right?
17:40
You've got a sales goal writing on this or you have some mortgage payments that needs
17:45
to be paid.
17:46
That's writing on this.
17:48
We go crazy.
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Like some people just get a little crazy and, you know, my husband's in sales and he and
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I were having, he and I were having this conversation.
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And we were, he was talking about somebody else that he works with, that he knows.
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And he was like, you know, like he's such a nice guy, but he just, he's just not landing.
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And I was like, you know, at the end of the day, it does take a little bit of social awareness,
18:08
like reading cues and situations to be able to really kind of hone in on people and connect
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with them.
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That's not where it starts.
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That's, that's something that can be developed.
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It starts with being, like you said, naturally curious or making yourself be curious when
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you go in to have a conversation with someone.
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But remember, the way I want you to have this conversation about finding out about them
18:27
and walking away with one thing you can do to help them, whatever that is on the business
18:31
side of the personal side, right, like that's your only objective.
18:35
That's all I want you to do.
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And that is way easier than remembering which of my products am I going to pitch to them
18:40
at the very end of this meeting because I'm removing that from the table.
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I'm not saying you won't have conversations where you do that, but when you're talking
18:46
to a realtor, you want to develop into a referral source, play the long game and be willing
18:51
to first connect with them on that human to human level, that H to H level, right?
18:56
And then develop, right, that relationship and the commonality is to where you're building
19:02
in that I like them and he helps me or she's helpful, right, to the point where they're
19:07
going to think of you first and then we start building on that.
19:11
Do you think it's useful for anybody to have some language or dialogue because what I
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like to do when I'm approaching that situation, a realtor who's already got their guard
19:20
up there, they're expecting me to ask for, right, I like to disarm it and just like say,
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hey, listen, before we even get started, I just want you to know I'm not here to ask for
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business.
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I'm not here to yet and kind of set it up that way.
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Do you got any tips around that?
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I mean, I think you can always call out the elephant in the room if you want to.
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I think what you have to be careful about is don't tell them, hey, I'm not here to
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sell you anything.
19:40
And then in the meeting with selling them, right, so so many people do that.
19:45
It's like, wait, I'm going to hear right now my guard's doubly up and you'll never get
19:49
back.
19:50
Right.
19:51
Right.
19:52
So I think it's important.
19:53
I mean, I, I like to say when I'm sitting down with people or if I'm thinking about, if
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I were a loan officer sitting down with someone's like, look, I'm sure you meet with a thousand
20:00
of me, are you could meet with a thousand of me?
20:02
And can we just like, let's talk business, but can we not talk about my business?
20:06
You know what I do?
20:07
I provide loans.
20:08
Like it's not complicated.
20:09
Right.
20:10
I'm going to help you figure that out.
20:11
And we can have that conversation if and when you ever want to, but can we just have a
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conversation about business because we're both business owners or we're both in sales.
20:19
And then but usually these conversations start better if you can actually start something
20:23
on the personal side.
20:24
Right.
20:25
So if you can start that conversation with saying, hey, and like in my case, I will admit
20:29
that it drives most of the people in my family crazy, I'm probably going to be three to
20:33
five minutes late.
20:34
If I'm needing you somewhere, I'm going to be three and five minutes late and I will
20:39
definitely blame it on one of my children because I have three of them and it's three
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to many.
20:45
It's convenient.
20:46
And it's true.
20:47
Very well.
20:48
Right.
20:49
But I mean, it used to be me, but now I've got these kids.
20:52
And so that's why the three to five minutes sometimes is a little bit longer.
20:55
So I'm going to start there.
20:56
I'm going to first apologize, of course, because I actually do feel bad about being late.
20:59
I just can't seem to get over it and then I'm going to start with a kid conversation and
21:02
then we're going to talk about that.
21:04
And at the end of the day, the goal here is, is like, hey, do we like each other?
21:08
Because then we can start talking about business maybe in the next meeting or the meeting
21:11
after that.
21:12
But we're trying to build relationships, but like I said, we're talking about playing
21:15
the long game and so many loan officers are in volume, right?
21:19
Specifics.
21:20
I got to hit these metrics.
21:21
They forget that piece.
21:23
Yeah.
21:24
And so you have to be intentional about doing this if you want it to work.
21:27
And will you get 30 referrals from a realtor where you go have a nice, fun conversation
21:31
with them?
21:32
No, not in a month or two.
21:34
But if it's filling your pipeline a year from now, that conversation and then continuing
21:39
to make sure you stay top of mind with them and plant referral seeds was extremely valuable.
21:43
Yeah.
21:44
You keep point there.
21:45
Play the long game.
21:46
Too many people are in short term sales DNA, you know, just quick, make the sale.
21:50
Yes.
21:51
And they lose out on the bigger picture.
21:53
So Mike Copeland's got a question for us.
21:54
Thanks, Mike, for putting that in there.
21:57
Mike has a question about getting consistent referrals and not the garbage.
22:04
So, you know, there's one of those things where I think it's okay.
22:10
So there's a lot actually there that I would, that I would unpack in that question.
22:14
Is it the garbage you're getting because you're asking for referrals?
22:18
And so people are just like, okay, fine, just give them some, so go away.
22:21
Right?
22:22
Like I'm not saying that about.
22:23
Was it Michael?
22:24
Was that?
22:25
But no, no, I know that's not Mike.
22:26
He's a quality guy.
22:27
Okay.
22:28
So sometimes when people say I get garbage, I'm like, yeah, because you're asking and people
22:32
just want you to go away.
22:34
So that's not Mike's situation.
22:36
Then one of the things you have to consider, and it's one of the things that I always tell
22:40
my students who go through my program is as we're moving them, we call them referral
22:44
ninja beginners and we're ultimately trying to get them to referral ninja masters where
22:48
they can consistently receive referrals without asking for them and have that consistency
22:52
pipeline they're looking for results are the only thing that gets you to the max.
22:55
So if I have a student that I'm talking to that's in Mike's situation, they're like,
22:59
I'm getting referrals, but they're not quality, right?
23:02
There is language that you want to use when you're having a conversation with that referral
23:08
source.
23:09
It happens once they're in the habit though of referrals.
23:13
If you're going to sit down and have a quality conversation with a referral source, it
23:16
better not be based on the first or second referral that they've sent you.
23:19
You need to be able to identify a pattern.
23:22
And a pattern tells you that they just probably don't understand where you do your best work
23:25
or what it looks like for you.
23:27
So you need to have a conversation with them and it is a face to face or phone conversation.
23:32
You do not send us a text message or an email.
23:35
That is like the wimpy way out and nobody here should be a wimp.
23:38
So the idea here is that you're going to have a conversation with them that's going
23:41
to be an actual conversation and that you're going to have noticed a pattern of not receiving
23:45
the referrals you want because that means there's a habit to refer you.
23:49
They just aren't giving you what you need and they need to understand the difference
23:52
of it.
23:53
And then it's all in terms of how you position that conversation and you have to make it
23:56
about yourself.
23:58
So the way you make it about yourself is like, you know what, you're so great to refer
24:01
me so and so and so and so and so and so.
24:03
I really appreciate it.
24:04
I had a very disappointed that I wasn't able to help them.
24:08
Now you don't throw any of those leads or those referrals, those clients, those people
24:12
under the bus and be like, because they had no money, right?
24:14
Or they had to have a credit source like, you don't say that.
24:18
You do talk about, you know, I was disappointed that I wasn't able to help them.
24:22
I always want to help the people that you're able to send to me, but where I do my best
24:25
work is and then you lay out who your ideal client is.
24:28
And that is an exact script that we actually talk about inside the growth by referrals program
24:32
because it's the piece that people get to where like, hey, at first, it's like, just
24:36
get me some referrals and then it's like, okay, now wait, I want to increase my closing
24:40
ratio.
24:41
Now we have to have some different conversations around the ability to close them.
24:44
So some people start a little farther, it's not like Mike starts a little further in
24:48
the journey of, hey, you're getting referrals, right?
24:50
But now we need to be getting you the right kind of referrals.
24:53
Yeah.
24:54
And Mike, feel free to comment on further to that.
24:55
Thank you, Stacey.
24:56
Great answer to that.
24:58
And I know, so this goes back to something you said earlier, which I wrote down, it ties
25:06
into like coaching your referral partners on how to refer you.
25:10
Like you have something which is identifying exactly what is a referral.
25:15
Can you help us coach our referral partners on how to clarify what a referral is to us?
25:20
Yeah.
25:21
So what I find when I start talking about referrals is that everybody has their own definition
25:27
of what that looks like and they apply their own definition to it.
25:30
And we're actually taking four different types of prospects and we're lumping them under
25:36
the umbrella of referrals.
25:37
So I would have people actually, they will tell me is a referral that is actually an introduction
25:42
or they will tell me, oh, this is a referral and it's actually word of mouth buzz.
25:45
Or they'll say, well, I got this referral and it's actually a warm lead and then there
25:49
is the referral.
25:50
So let me start by defining referral because once you know what it is, then you can instantly
25:55
understand when you're not receiving it and then have the language to flip that non-referral
26:00
into a referral.
26:01
So referral has two things that all other types of prospects who come in close in this family
26:07
are not going to have.
26:10
And so number one is a referral is always done by personal connection, which means there's
26:14
a referral source, a realtor who is going to connect you to the person who needs a loan
26:19
to the prospect.
26:20
There's always going to be a personal connection.
26:22
98% of the time, this is going to happen over email.
26:25
That's how I would want you to have it happen because then you're on the email, the prospects
26:29
on the email, off the referral source, the trust factor never evaporates because you're
26:33
going to reply to that email so they remember, why am I getting an email from Jeff?
26:36
Oh, that's right.
26:37
Sally, my realtor told me this is who I need to talk to, right?
26:40
It just reinforces, I do want to talk to this person.
26:44
So it's the personal connection first.
26:46
The second piece is that there's a need identified.
26:48
That means that when I'm connecting you to a prospect, that person has a problem.
26:53
They're interested in solving it and now they're ready to talk to someone who can be their
26:56
solution.
26:57
And you're, of course, the solution.
26:59
So they show up with a buyer's mentality and they already trust you because they've been
27:04
connected by someone that they trust, so they're more open to having a conversation.
27:09
That is the, that is the effect of definition of a referral.
27:12
You're connected by the referral source to the prospect.
27:15
So trust can be transferred and the prospect has a need and they know it.
27:19
They know they have a need, right?
27:21
Now this is a little bit easier when a realtor is connecting you to someone because they're
27:24
probably not going to waste time connecting you to someone who doesn't need a loan, right?
27:27
So this makes it really easy, I think, for loan officers and other industries not so much.
27:32
We have to really pay attention to actually if this is a referral or not.
27:36
So the idea there is, is when someone says, hey, I need you guys to connect and you don't
27:41
say why?
27:42
Like because they need a loan or because you're trying to grow my network or because they
27:45
need some free advice, then it's just an introduction.
27:48
And knowing what it is allows you to reply appropriately to the situation.
27:54
When you get a referral based on that definition I gave, you should know it and you should
27:59
be able to take action based on what it is because it's very simple.
28:03
They're ready.
28:04
They just have to decide if they're going to buy from you.
28:07
Okay.
28:08
Does that help Mike and Stephanie, Kenny, Matthew?
28:13
Does that help clarify the what is a referral?
28:19
Do you think it's that depending on the level of relationship or does it make sense to
28:25
try to think how, like, you know, with the loan officer to articulate little more detail
28:29
around what is a referral?
28:32
I think that's going to depend on the relationship you have with that agent.
28:36
Yeah.
28:37
I mean, I think if someone had an example, I could probably unpack it from that perspective.
28:41
But the idea here is, is that if a real interest says to you, hey, yeah, I gave your contact
28:47
information to a couple of my clients, you did not get a referral.
28:52
I got one right here.
28:53
Okay.
28:54
Got you.
28:55
Okay.
28:56
The three card approach.
28:57
You may have heard of this.
28:58
Have you heard of this in our industry at all?
29:00
Give it to me just to make sure I'm on the same level.
29:03
So some realtors, what they do is they do the three card approach.
29:06
They have a client who comes in, you know what I mean?
29:09
They give three cards to three different loan officers.
29:11
Yeah.
29:12
Exactly.
29:13
They don't want to play favorites.
29:14
Right.
29:15
And because they think they want to, like, play by respo rules and all that kind of stuff,
29:17
which is a bunch of BS, but anyway, I thought I'd throw that at you, curveball.
29:21
Yes.
29:22
Okay.
29:23
So here's the reality of that.
29:24
There will always be those agents that won't play favorites, right?
29:28
They won't take a stand.
29:30
What they don't realize is that their client is looking for them to give them better
29:35
direction.
29:36
You being the person to tell the real to that's probably not in your best interest, being
29:40
like, well, you're really just screwing up with your real, with your clients, because
29:43
you're not giving them the answer.
29:44
Like, my husband and I, we just sold our house last year, right?
29:47
We're in a temporary living situation because what I love, because there's no yard work
29:52
to do, but we'll eventually buy another home, right?
29:54
Yeah.
29:55
And the truth is is that when we had conversations with our agent, our conversations with
30:00
our agent happen like this, well, what would you do?
30:03
Well, what do you think?
30:04
What would this look like?
30:05
What, you know, and so those are the conversations we're having.
30:08
And I remember the state conversation we got into is that we were selling our house.
30:13
It was, we had a closing date coming up.
30:14
There's another house.
30:15
It was like a knock.
30:16
So we thought we'd put an offer in and he said, your mortgage guy won't be able to get
30:20
it done because he already talked to our mortgage guy and he knew how the process took.
30:23
He goes, I have someone else I can recommend, if you're interested, if we're going to hit
30:27
this closing time period, so you're not living without a house for a couple of weeks making
30:30
the closing time.
30:31
Oh, I see.
30:32
The mortgage guy you had brought to the table.
30:33
No, so it was our realtor.
30:34
Yeah, yeah.
30:35
And whether a mortgage person to the table, because we had somebody, would you use somebody
30:39
for years, right?
30:40
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
30:41
They said, your current mortgage person won't be able to get the job done.
30:44
Right, because he, and here's the thing, because he had already had a conversation with
30:48
our mortgage broker and he knew, and he laid out how the bank works, right?
30:52
And he laid out exactly what it looks like, because that's something our realtor does at
30:55
the very beginning of any, this is like months ago, before you even put our house on the
30:58
market, he had a conversation with our mortgage broker about what's your process, because
31:01
I want to know so that I can make this as smooth as possible for the Randals for us.
31:06
So that's one thing to keep in mind.
31:08
But the other thing I want to say about this is, is if you walk into a situation where
31:12
a realtor saying, I'm giving out your card in three others, you have to understand that
31:17
to your point, they're either doing it to play by some rules or low rules, not downgrading
31:21
anyone to play by the rules.
31:22
I'm a little follower.
31:23
So they're, they're playing by the rules, or they actually don't know enough about their
31:28
client situation to know who would be the right loan officer for them, and you could lead
31:32
with that, right?
31:33
If you know the realtor says, hey, I gave your name, I gave you in three other people right
31:37
to this one client, then when you call the client, recognize that you got to lead not
31:42
really a referral, but it was warmer, right?
31:44
It was definitely a warmer lead than it was anything else, but lead with that.
31:48
You're like, hey, I know that Nancy probably gave you the name of a couple of people, right?
31:52
Here's a couple of things you need to know about how different loan officers are going
31:55
to work and what it looks like.
31:57
It isn't all based on the lowest cut through it late.
31:59
We can get you.
32:00
Here's, and then you need to play advisor to these clients, because then you're not selling.
32:04
You make it sound like, well, you really have their best interest at heart.
32:08
You have to not, we can't always fix the referral source and how they were for us.
32:13
Sometimes we have to not have fixed that in the sales process with the ultimate client,
32:17
but ultimately I want you developing a relationship with those realtors where they don't hand
32:21
three cards.
32:22
Or they hand three cards, and they're like, hey, these people are great, but Jeff always
32:26
gets the job done.
32:28
And they point to your card, or they say something in effect about you.
32:32
The truth is you probably have a niche on some level, and you can't help every client
32:35
they ever have.
32:36
They should have more than one loan officer.
32:38
They really should, and you also probably can't handle anybody who has got crazy, crazy
32:42
volume on some level, but you just don't want to be one of 50, right?
32:46
You still want to rise to the top of the pile when you can, and you want to make sure that
32:50
what they say about you is, is like, hey, there's three people who I think can help you.
32:53
I work the most with Jeff, and he can get the job done.
32:56
That all comes based on a relationship and what that looks like.
33:00
And some realtors are going to play the rules, and they're going to say, here's three cards,
33:03
I can't tell you to use, because that will be misleading, and I can't do that.
33:07
You're not going to change that realtors mind, so stop trying.
33:09
All right, Nathan asked a question, Jeff, I'm just going to answer this question, I'm
33:12
hoping that's okay.
33:13
Yep.
33:14
Nathan asked a question, do you set weekly or monthly meeting goals with partners?
33:19
So ultimately, what I teach is it's about strengthening and developing a relationship.
33:25
And so it's about doing things that make you memorable and meaningful, and keep you
33:30
more top of mind.
33:32
When you do those, oh, they're definitely on the screen there.
33:35
Okay, so I'm just going to keep going.
33:38
Setting week, oh, okay, wait, let me make sure I get this right.
33:41
All right, so Nathan, I'm going to answer your question in two ways based on what Mike just
33:43
said.
33:44
So setting weekly or monthly meeting goals with partners, if you have a relationship with
33:47
a referral source who's already referring you, the relationship you're going to build
33:51
with them is going to look entirely different, then if you're trying to establish relationships
33:56
with your new potential referral sources that I do always say you need to try to get that
34:02
first meeting.
34:03
And then always walk away from that first meeting with some type of action you're going
34:06
to take.
34:07
That's how you're going to help them.
34:08
And then yes, you're probably going to need to make sure that you are following some
34:12
type of process to be able to like to move past that, starting with staying in touch and
34:16
eventually moving to top of mind.
34:19
So in my book, I talk about ways to plant referrals seeds like when somebody asks the question
34:23
how's business because that question gets asked in every coffee meeting you're going
34:27
to go to or every networking event you're going to go to is making sure you know how to
34:31
plant more furlce seeds with the how's business, but the majority of those conversations as
34:35
we've been talking about are going to be about building a relationship, walk away from
34:39
those meetings with the next step and let that drive the interaction you're going to have
34:43
with that agent moving forward, but you're going to probably have to kiss some toads before
34:47
you get to your friends or your princess.
34:49
So you're going to have to probably set some meetings and set more than you want to
34:54
do as you're trying to find the right ones to cultivate and it's going to take time
34:57
to cultivate them into a referral source.
35:00
So keep that in mind.
35:02
Okay, let's see what was the next question because we had another one in there.
35:06
Deb, tell us how people can learn more about what you can offer.
35:10
Oh, okay.
35:11
So when it comes to working with me, I have my program Growth By Referrals.
35:14
It's time I'm going to teach you how to generate new referrals from and good to have a
35:19
match.
35:20
I'm going to answer that question, too.
35:21
So the way that I work with folks is really on two levels.
35:24
I'm going to teach you how to turn people into referral sources following the process and
35:27
then I'm going to teach you once those folks are referring you how to generate more referrals
35:30
from them.
35:31
My program's called Growth By Referrals.
35:33
I work with folks in two ways.
35:35
There is my independent study online program.
35:37
If you ever been through an online course, you know what this looks like, except for
35:40
you get to turn in the work that you do and me and my team actually review it and reply
35:44
back.
35:45
It's one thing that makes us different.
35:46
You know someone's paying attention to the work that you're turning in and you have access
35:50
to a Facebook community where you can ask questions and find other people who are doing
35:53
exactly what you're doing.
35:55
And then of course, I have a VIP option for the person who wants all that.
35:58
I want the online program, but I want access to you, Stacy, I want you to help me build
36:01
it, work with me for a year, quarterly calls, initially we build your session, your generating
36:07
plan, your referral generating plan together and that's my VIP option.
36:10
You can find all of this at Growth By Referrals.com.
36:14
Okay, so Deb then also asked, how do you answer the question, how's business?
36:18
Perfect.
36:19
It's in Chapter 11 of my book.
36:21
If you hear this and you don't write it down fast enough or whatever, you can go get
36:25
it in the book, generating business referrals without asking.
36:27
Chapter 11, it's how you plant referral seeds.
36:30
That's what that chapter is about.
36:32
And the easiest one to plant is when someone says, how's business, nine times out of ten,
36:36
I'm going to guess you respond with good or busy or it's going great.
36:41
Well, what if you changed your language and planted a referral seed of which we're not
36:44
sure it will go anywhere, right?
36:46
We're not sure if we planted the seeds, it's going to go anywhere, but we won't know
36:49
until we plant it.
36:51
Your response should be more in line with when someone says, hey Stacy, how's business?
36:55
My response is going to be, it's great.
36:57
I actually brought on five new clients last month and four of them came by referrals,
37:02
right?
37:03
Isn't it awesome to receive referrals?
37:04
It makes turning those people into clients so much easier and then you be quiet, right?
37:10
You're not trying to explain it, you're hoping to engage in a conversation with them talking
37:14
to you about, well, how are you getting those referrals or, well, that's a lot of referrals
37:17
or, well, that, you know, that's whatever the conversation is and the dynamics going to
37:22
happen is your response to how business is specific to your referrals.
37:27
Here's the thing, you can't lie.
37:29
You got to be authentic and you can't manipulate the situation, but let's say you didn't
37:33
get any referrals in January, but you did get something in 2019.
37:36
Well, then shift what you're going to say to say that, like, thanks for asking, business
37:40
is really good.
37:41
You know, I was looking back on 2019 and I realized that like 50% of all my clients came
37:45
by referral.
37:47
I love getting referrals.
37:48
It makes life so much easier.
37:49
Don't you agree?
37:50
Right?
37:51
So it's how you engage them in conversation about referral, but you plant the seed that
37:55
you're actually doing business by referral.
37:56
Here's the thing.
37:57
I can't guarantee you're going to plant the seed and have some kind of referral explosion
38:00
happen, but if the person engages in conversation with you about referrals, they will remember
38:05
you for it.
38:06
And that tells you that there's a way for you to continue to build a relationship with
38:10
them and potentially turn them into a referral source.
38:12
So from that perspective, hopefully Deb, that was helpful or whoever asked that question.
38:17
And then, hey, Jeff, you're back on my screen.
38:20
Yeah, I don't know if you can hear me though.
38:22
I can.
38:23
Oh my God.
38:24
Hopefully, I did okay.
38:25
Just kind of taking over.
38:26
I just went to the snack bar.
38:27
So great job.
38:28
I'm so glad.
38:29
I'm so glad.
38:30
I'm so glad.
38:31
I'm so glad.
38:32
I'm so glad.
38:33
I'm so glad.
38:34
No seriously.
38:35
Those are great answers.
38:36
Thank you so much.
38:37
Great questions.
38:38
By the way, from the crew as well.
38:39
Thanks Deb for pitching and helping out there.
38:41
I guess I needed to just minimize my video and come back.
38:44
That's what fix to be live.
38:46
Okay.
38:47
I know you're tied on time and you've been very generous with your time as well.
38:49
So I also want to go back to the resources you mentioned.
38:51
I don't want to blow by those.
38:53
I did put links in the notes.
38:55
Like you said, one of them was to your book, which is on Amazon, which I encourage everybody
38:59
to get fantastic book at a few options for it there.
39:01
And then secondly is you have a kind of a course, right?
39:05
You talked about growth by referrals program.
39:07
Yes.
39:08
Yep.
39:09
And so and the book is available audio eReader and of course, a printed copy as well.
39:13
And I do read it for those who that matters to them when they're buying an audio book.
39:17
It is actually me reading it.
39:18
I had a lot of fun.
39:19
But yes, my program's called Growth by referrals.
39:22
And what I was explaining is the two ways that the program works and how I engage and work
39:26
with clients.
39:27
Because a one-on-one kind of VIP option, if you want me to build your plan with you, be
39:31
available to you for an entire year, do quarterly checking calls, track your progress, right?
39:36
There's a VIP option.
39:37
And then for those of you who are like, I kind of just want to do this on my own.
39:40
There's independent study.
39:41
But what makes our program different is you, there's a few key times during the program
39:46
where you're doing work and you're creating something and then you're actually uploading
39:49
it through the system.
39:50
And then me and my team are actually checking it and replying back to you on what we think.
39:54
And if you need a shift or if you did a great job, we'll tell you that and kind of what
39:57
it looks like.
39:58
So there's more of a hands-on approach even at the independent study level.
40:01
And then both levels, of course, come with a Facebook group of just the students in
40:04
the program.
40:05
And we're in eight different countries now.
40:07
So I mean, we're kind of all over in terms of where people are using this.
40:10
I do know somebody in the UK, I think it was in England, it's actually a mortgage burger
40:16
that's in the program.
40:17
It's been in for a couple of years.
40:20
I think there's some other ones in there too.
40:21
I just remember him because he was my first UK purchaser.
40:24
And so I just happened to remember that he was also a loan officer as well.
40:28
But there's definitely, there's other industries in there.
40:31
So there's lots of realtors in my program, but there's also CPAs, attorneys, interior
40:36
designers that kind of runs the gamut in terms of people who are trying to get referrals
40:40
without asking.
40:41
Well, that's fantastic.
40:42
Well, I know I've learned a lot by you being here.
40:44
And I think the big takeaway I have from kind of the overall kind of lessons that we learned
40:49
here today is referrals don't happen by accident, right?
40:52
You've got to be very intentional.
40:54
You've got to lead with relationship and connection over conversion.
40:58
And I think you presented a lot of strategies for us to follow on that today in some additional
41:02
resources for people to check out.
41:04
So thank you for being here and putting up and putting up with these tech challenges.
41:07
I'm just glad they were your challenges and not not.
41:10
Don't keep it pretty cool under the lid.
41:13
Like, didn't seem to be too flustered.
41:14
At all.
41:15
I'm actually impressed.
41:16
I'll probably learn from you.
41:19
I've had that in so many times.
41:20
You just got a role that you know, trying out some of these software.
41:23
I used to use B Live all the time back in the day and I was like, okay, I'm not ready
41:26
to go to this new one.
41:27
So I'll go back to this one and wouldn't you know, something happened.
41:31
So remind of why I left in the past.
41:32
So anyway, I do appreciate you greatly.
41:36
I know you're incredibly busy and I'm definitely going to be buying your book.
41:38
Oh, by the way, one other tip for you guys and this might, maybe the last word on this
41:43
is I'm a big believer in giving something of value such as a book.
41:49
And again, not to bring up the whole recipe thing, but it's just right.
41:52
Something that somebody will appreciate, a small gift of kindness, whatever.
41:55
And I think that Stacy's book is an excellent example to start out the new year
42:00
about how you can demonstrate that you're willing to invest in relationships
42:03
by leading with a gift of her book.
42:06
Hey, if you do that, here's the messaging I want you to use on it.
42:09
Right?
42:10
Say, hey, I found someone who believes what I believe when it comes to referrals
42:14
and I wanted to share it with you.
42:16
Wow.
42:17
Think about the conversations you can have once they go through this book, right?
42:21
Right.
42:22
Make yourself as much of an expert as I am.
42:24
You probably should read my book first.
42:25
I'm just saying, but make yourself an expert as much as I am.
42:28
And then that puts you on the same kind of level as like you want them to know this
42:32
about you.
42:33
And ultimately, it's because you agree.
42:34
If you don't agree, don't do it, but that language keeps you on the same level as
42:37
me when you're painting the book off.
42:39
And I think it's just it's better remembered.
42:42
That's awesome.
42:43
Stacy, so thank you so much for being here.
42:44
We appreciate you people watching listening.
42:46
Even if it's on the replay, go check out the resources, follow Stacy, buy, subscribe, take
42:51
everything she's got to offer, and you will grow your referrals.
42:54
So thanks again, Stacy.
42:55
Thanks, Debra, having me.
42:57
You bet.
42:58
And everybody, thanks for watching.
42:59
And thanks for hanging with us through some of the tech challenges.
43:01
And I promise this will improve as the show levels up this year and becomes real.
43:05
All right.
43:06
Take care.
43:07
Have a great day.
43:08
I appreciate you.
43:09
See you on the next one.
43:10
Bye for now.
43:11
Thanks for listening to Mortgage Marketing Radio.
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One more truth in Mortgage Marketing.
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