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The Best Thing You Can Do for Your Career · Content, Briefly

• 0:00
  [ on-hold music] This episode of Content Briefly is brought to you by our friends at Ahrefs. Do you want to make your business discoverable in search, AI and beyond?
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  Sign up for Ahrefs Webmaster Tools with the link in the show notes to improve your website's SEO performance and grow your traffic from search. Hey, everybody.
• 0:55
  Thanks so much for tuning in to another episode of Content Briefly. Today, it's Chloe and I.
• 0:59
  Each of us are in new roles, and so we're talking a bit about how we landed in these roles, some things we learned through the interview and application process, and kinda more broadly, some, you know, things we've done over the course of our careers that have been helpful in that like long-term sense.
• 1:12
  Like, for me, like publishing a lot, it's been hugely helpful. Chloe has a totally different perspective, which is why I love having her on. And so I know the job market out there is kinda tough.
• 1:20
  A lot of folks are looking for new roles in the content world right now, so hopefully there's some helpful tidbits in here.
• 1:25
  And if you haven't listened to last week's episode with the CEO of Superpath, which is not me, it's Alex Hillary, I recommend doing that because there's a whole backstory in that episode about why I'm in a new role, and so I encourage folks to go check that out.
• 1:39
  As always, go check out Superpath Pro. We've got a thirty-day free trial. The Slack group is really like the center of it.
• 1:44
  It's on twenty-four/seven, and there have been some fantastic conversations happening in there right now. Some of it is definitely around career development and professional development.
• 1:52
  There's a lot in there about AI, as you might imagine.
• 1:55
  And then there's, you know, there's always a steady stream of evergreen topics about content strategy, reporting and attribution, hiring, managing a team, managing up. So much good stuff.
• 2:07
  There's just always a thread that you can jump into or just be a fly on the wall if you just wanna kinda absorb all the many things happening in there. You can learn all about that at superpath.co.
• 2:16
  All right, I'll get out of the way. Please enjoy this episode with Chloe and I. Hey, everybody, Jimmy from Superpath here today with Chloe. We have, I think, kind of an interesting topic today.
• 2:25
  We're both in new roles, and thus we'll talk a little bit about those roles, and then I think we should talk, if you're up for it, Chloe, a bit about, you know, career-- I guess I'll call it career development.
• 2:35
  Like something you've done for yourself that has like helped you land where you are now. You know, there's a lot of folks out there looking for roles right now.
• 2:41
  There's also a lot of advice out there on, you know, how to land roles, professional development, et cetera.
• 2:47
  And so like while this advice may not be broadly applicable, it's specifically applicable, and hopefully like, you know, the kinda the anecdotes that we share today are helpful to some of the folks out there.
• 2:58
  So first, let's talk about the role. Chloe, your job. Tell us about it. What is it? What's your title? What are you doing? Doing a lot of things.
• 3:06
  So I started at Visier at the end of October as their new director of content marketing, which is a role that I'm familiar with. I've been like head of content in, in that role for a while now.
• 3:18
  Visier is a people analytics platform, so similarly, I've been in like the HR tech world for about nine years, so it's a different part of HR tech, more on the like analytics, workforce planning, organizational design, whereas before I'd been on like the employee engagement and experience side.
• 3:35
  So three weeks in, definitely, you know, trying to claw up to the surface of all the onboarding materials, but essentially I'll be developing their overall content marketing strategy, making sure that, you know, we're putting out the right content at the right time to the right people, and then making sure that we're, you know, doing things efficiently on budget and connecting that back to business goals.
• 3:57
  Awesome. That's so cool. Well, congrats. That's really exciting. Thank you. If you're wondering why I have a new role, make sure you listen to last week's episode where I interviewed the CEO of Superpath, Alex Hillary.
• 4:07
  It's not me anymore [chuckles], and there's lots of backstory there, and so I won't go into all that.
• 4:11
  But so I've been-- I've actually been working with Reforge for I guess about four months now, first on a contract basis, and then for about two months as a full-timer. And my job is to lead content marketing.
• 4:26
  It's a relatively small team, forty-ish people, and one of the things I really love about this role is that everyone's a high-level individual contributor.
• 4:35
  It's kinda like a light management layer, but for the most part, like people are like given a scope of work, and you just go do it, and I love that about it.
• 4:42
  So Reforge is, in some ways, a little bit like Superpath, except a lot bigger than Superpath in the sense that like they do professional development, they create educational material, and run live trainings for product folks and growth folks.
• 4:55
  But more recently, they're pivoting into software as well. So they've got four software products, each of which are AI native, and we're making a big marketing push around those right now, so that's what I'm working on.
• 5:04
  So there's a lot of thought leadership stuff, and then actually some product marketing too, which is kinda new for me, but like that just happens to be like where the greatest need is at the moment.
• 5:12
  So the times they are a-changin'. I mean, I'm excited for both of us that we're sitting in new roles. It's been fun. I'm sure, like you, Chloe, it's a little overwhelming too.
• 5:21
  It's like just like walk in the door, the virtual door, to a new company and just kinda be like overwhelmed with everything happening and all the people and processes and tools and all of that. Yeah.
• 5:31
  It's hard to know when to...
• 5:33
  And I had to do that today actually, to just sort of take a step back and immerse myself in like product demos and understanding more of like what does my company actually do, because I was sort of thrown right into the fire in a project that was in development, and I was sort of just, "Okay, I'm gonna go lead this project," and then I took a step back and was like, "I think I need to learn more about what our company actually does."
• 5:56
  [laughs] So, so it can be tempting to just jump right in. Yeah. You gotta know the product.
• 6:01
  You gotta kinda understand the customer, like what their problems are, you know, what the sales process and, you knowLooks like and how folks activate and all that stuff.
• 6:09
  I mean, I would say I'm definitely going through that as well. It's like I understand the gist of it, but like the specifics of it are- Right...
• 6:14
  really, really important, and it takes a minute to get up to speed on all that. Yeah. So we, so we teased this episode as the best thing you can do for your career, which is, you know, it's a little clickbaity, I know.
• 6:24
  'Cause f-for you and I, each, Chloe, it's different, and we should talk about that. And I think for everybody else, it's probably-- there's something different too.
• 6:32
  Maybe, you know, maybe we can share something that someone could just take and apply. But how about this, why don't you go first?
• 6:38
  'Cause I would love for you to go 'cause I don't disagree with you, and then I'll go because I know you disagree with me, and I think we could chat about that too.
• 6:45
  [chuckles] I mean, disagree, like, that's a strong word, but I think for me, what I found over the years is like one of my superpowers that started out as a basic principle is just reaching outside of like my own little box and just finding ways to learn from other people and like just find those opportunities for cross-collaboration and just like always be open to learning from other people that aren't doing what you're doing, which sounds so simple, but so many people don't do it.
• 7:18
  They try to get extremely specialized in one track and one track only and don't understand like the other things. It's like my favorite like Ferris Bueller quote, like, "Life moves pretty fast.
• 7:29
  If you don't stop, look around once in a while, you might miss it." Like stop, talk to people, and understand like the wider picture. I love that.
• 7:38
  I haven't applied for a job in a very long time in-- So going back like really pre-Animals, like I first landed at Animals in 2016, and I didn't know-- there was no job to apply for.
• 7:50
  It's just like I knew Walter, the founder, and he reached out, and we talked about it. And then I went on a hiatus from Animals before my second go-around there, and so I applied for jobs.
• 7:59
  That was like late 2016, basically. And that was the last time I'd done this because then I did Animals, and then I did Superpath. And so like fast-forward like eight years, and I was like feeling pretty rusty.
• 8:10
  And then, of course, like I see what's going on in the job market. Like it's pretty tough, and I like found myself right in the middle of that also. At first, I was like, okay, well, I'm really experienced.
• 8:19
  I've been running this business. I think that's gonna really help. And like, so I started applying for jobs and reaching out to my network, and there's just like crickets, just like nothing.
• 8:27
  And I was getting so frustrated because I was like, first, like why doesn't anybody value the fact that I've been running this business? Like I wasn't checking the boxes.
• 8:35
  Like I didn't have the like director of content title that I think like gets you into the next round. So I'm just getting like straight up denied,
• 8:42
  uh, I think because like the resume doesn't look the way the resume is supposed to look. Anyways, a long story. I'll make short.
• 8:49
  I ended up at Reforge, and they did value the business experience, and that came through a personal connection, although there was a role that I applied for and went through the interview and test project and all the, all of just like the normal stuff.
• 8:59
  But the thing that I found myself leaning on throughout the entire process was kinda the same thing I found myself leaning on for so much of my career, which is I've been able to grow a fairly large network of people because I publish stuff a lot, and I've published stuff a lot for a really long time.
• 9:15
  And over the past couple of years, I've published a lot less because my focus has been so much on Superpath. But I sent a newsletter every week for seven years. You know, I wrote for the Animals blog.
• 9:26
  I used to tweet a lot when Twitter was a fun place to hang out. You know, I haven't really like made the transition to LinkedIn. I'm not like totally sold on that yet.
• 9:32
  But there were so many benefits I found r- in the short term of doing that type of thing, like clarifying my own thinking by writing. That was like one easy one.
• 9:40
  But then also like just making connections with people, you know, building up a subscriber list. Like my Twitter following turned into Superpath's first thousand email subscribers, like that type of thing.
• 9:50
  And then when it comes time for companies to hire, if you apply, I think you have a-- There's sort of like a, this is what I imagine, sort of like a little bit of a halo effect around your resume because people might know who you are because of the writing that you've been doing, or people just reach out.
• 10:06
  Like that has happened as well. So one of the things I plan to get back to is publishing a lot, you know. Even if it's once a month. Like I've really gotten away from that, and I would really like to get back to it.
• 10:17
  And then one other thing, because I'm going on and on forever, we just hired for a content role at Reforge, and, you know, one thing I noticed going through applications was we had tons of great people apply.
• 10:28
  The people who had portfolios stood out, for sure. Like whether the things that were in their portfolio were exactly the things that we were looking for in this role
• 10:37
  was-- that was secondary, but I always gravitated towards portfolios because the other things we're looking at are resumes, cover letters, and LinkedIn profiles, all of which basically look the same.
• 10:48
  It's really difficult no matter what you put on those things. They're very structured. It's very difficult to stand out. But a portfolio helps so much. So the portfolio can be like, yeah, your best writing samples.
• 10:58
  It could be a newsletter you send. It could be, you know, the projects you've done, like nowadays, like vibe coding projects, whatever.
• 11:06
  But like it helped me, it really like truly helped me like get such a better sense of who these people are, what their skills are like, what types of things they like working on, and whether or not they were gonna be a good fit for the role.
• 11:16
  So anyway, sorry, this is super, this is super long word vomit. [chuckles] I think without going down like a rabbit hole of like the tactics of writing a cover letter, I do think that a lot of them do sound the same.
• 11:30
  But I think where a portfolio helps you is understanding how to bring like those little snippet stories to life.
• 11:39
  So like if you have-- I would say like if you have a portfolio of work that you're really proud of, like take a step back and ask yourself like, why are you super proud of that work?
• 11:48
  And try to convey like that story and that emotion in your cover letter to like make people want to go read your stuff, look you up, et cetera, et cetera. I would just say like that's my one kinda nugget of advice.
• 12:01
  Yeah, I like that.
• 12:02
  But I think it's interesting that you're like, "Oh yeah, I, I published a lot, and I wrote a lot, and I did this," and like, look, we all wrote, but I was so used to, at the beginning of my careerBeing behind the scenes that I did not feel comfortable or confident enough to go put that out in the world until I had like several years under my belt.
• 12:24
  And I really respect like you know newbies that are sharing like their learnings, maybe not their like expertise yet, but like they're really trying to put a stamp on their personal brand like early on in their careers.
• 12:37
  And I wish that had been more of a thing like when I started out. Like I was more about, okay, well, how can we like elevate these people that I'm writing the bylines for, all of that.
• 12:49
  Like I never thought that I would be the one to put my own voice out there, which kind of sounds so stupid to say in twenty twenty-five, but when I first, you know, started my career like I never would have thought that.
• 13:03
  Yeah. No, you're totally right. Like so much of content marketing is ghostwritten, and there's also like all the ancillary work required to get something across the finish line, which is sort of invisible.
• 13:13
  The finished product is so visible, you know, it's hard to know like how much elbow grease did this person kind of put into this project to make it come to life.
• 13:22
  You know, I feel like it's probably like twenty fourteen maybe. I was working for this company called Vero.
• 13:28
  It was like an email, transactional email software product, and so I was-- started off ghostwriting for the founder, and he felt uncomfortable with it.
• 13:35
  He was like, "I just feel weird that there's like five people in this company, and like you pretend to be me." He was like- Right... "Just write as you. Like just do that, and just let's just see if it changes anything."
• 13:45
  The thing it changed, which actually was quite impactful for me, was that I was like, "Oh, I can't fake this. I have to actually know what I'm talking about."
• 13:54
  And so because it was an email tool, and I was sending our emails, I spent a lot of time in the product and running tests and like really getting to understand like the use cases our customers were like primarily using as well.
• 14:03
  And so then I was able to write from like a much more authoritative place. So like it just kinda like tweaked this thing in my brain a bit where I was like
• 14:11
  I can pretend to sound like an expert, or I can actually become one, and it felt really good.
• 14:15
  And then a- anyways, it just sort of got my gears turning around like what other things do I sort of know about that maybe I could publish on?
• 14:21
  No, I get that, and I mean, I think that, you know, I'm assuming people that are listening to this are in the content marketing world, but it sort of is that question of like are all or should all content marketers be some kind of product marketers?
• 14:35
  And like that sort of gets back to my point in terms of reaching across the aisles and trying to find like those pieces of cross-collaboration.
• 14:43
  The only way you're gonna do that is by learning as much as you can, like about your company and about your product and about your space because then you're telling different stories than if you're just looking at keyword volume.
• 14:56
  Like and that's kind of how I've always felt. Yeah. Yeah. How did you find, like as you were going through your, like your own job search, like how did you communicate the value of your work?
• 15:05
  Like I actually struggled with this a bit because like I had writing samples to show, but they were very outdated, and then I was like, well, I've been running this business, so I kinda like I'm the bookkeeper.
• 15:14
  I'm the sales guy. I cut the grass. Like I do [laughs] yeah. I mean, I did have really specific examples.
• 15:21
  Like there were a couple campaigns specifically that I worked on where we were able to, you know, thread the needle through direct ROI.
• 15:30
  So I had like really good, like measurable impact stories that I could tell, and I think that definitely got people's attention. But I think... You know, it was interesting.
• 15:41
  I went through [laughs] like emotional roller coasters during the job search, and I went back to a couple different things.
• 15:49
  Like I presented at Content Marketing World in twenty twenty-three after I resigned from my job, and that was a presentation that I kind of watched a couple times to validate like how have I changed from the person that presented this?
• 16:05
  What is true to me right now? What am I still working on? And through that, I think I just learned-- And talking to other people, like honestly, I approached it like market research.
• 16:17
  Like I asked like some trusted peers and former coworkers, I was like, "What did you like working about me? Like if you had to name some of like my superpowers, like what would they be?"
• 16:28
  And like everyone kind of honed in on understanding the impact of content, like being very cross-collaborative and being nerdily passionate about what I do and wanting to like learn as much as possible.
• 16:46
  Like those were like the three things that people kind of kept on telling me. And then I- That's such a great idea. I love that. Yeah. And so then I was like, "Okay. How do I bring that to life?"
• 16:56
  And then like you said, you've been writing and publishing, or you did when you started. I think with that, I started publishing more on LinkedIn about those pieces of myself.
• 17:07
  And then I felt like when you read my cover letter, hopefully you looked at my portfolio, and then you jump on, and you look at my LinkedIn, it's like it's the same person talking back at you. Yeah.
• 17:20
  And, and that was like a big like aha moment for me where-- and it sounds super cliché and stupid, but honestly, just figuring out how to be true to myself throughout the job search, and that just shone through.
• 17:34
  And I was rejected from certain jobs, you know, like there were certain ones I obviously didn't move forward in, and at the end of the day, I would just be like, "They're just not looking for the type of content leader that I am.
• 17:46
  That's okay." Yeah. And I kinda reframed it that way in my head. Yeah. Do you think that would work for others?
• 17:51
  Like for folks who are out there in a job search, like is that the type of thing that you think you could just like take this template and apply it for yourself? I think so.
• 17:59
  I mean, I think I've been on a couple calls recently with people that have been searching for their job, and I think the big thing is, like, and I always say this, is like finding like what your narrative is and what your story is and through that, how you've delivered impact.
• 18:14
  Like it's hard because, look, if you don't have the right experience in this job market, it's gonna be hard to get ahead.But you can still make yourself stand out by trying to figure out, like, what are those superpowers that you might have that not everyone has.
• 18:29
  And sometimes those are, you know, labeled as, like, the soft skills, but they're insanely important.
• 18:34
  If you think that you're gonna be in a director level role, you think you're gonna be leading a team, you're working at a larger company where, you know, you need to stand out or whatever that might be.
• 18:45
  Yeah, I mean-- and I think I posted something on LinkedIn a while ago where I kinda, like, took all of my recommendations that-- endorsements and stuff that people have given me over the years, 'cause I'm really big on that.
• 18:57
  If you're at a job or leaving a job, like, ask for recommendations, give recommendations, like, pay it forward. It's hugely helpful.
• 19:05
  But I took all of that, and I threw it into ChatGPT, and I was like: Give me a summary of what I'm like to work with.
• 19:14
  And so, like, I started there, and so it's just like, it's taking yourself out of the equation and being-- and gaining back that confidence to be like, "Okay, wait, this is how people actually see me."
• 19:25
  That's what kind of helped me anyway. Yeah. I like that. You know, I'm not sure that I would recommend to everyone, like, publish a lot. Like, maybe it's your thing, maybe it's not.
• 19:35
  I would say make a really good portfolio. Yeah. And use it as a chance to capture as much of yourself, your professional self as possible.
• 19:45
  Y-you know, 'cause it can be very difficult to communicate, like you said, soft skills. It's very difficult to say, you know, "I am a good project manager, I am a good communicator, I'm a good leader," et cetera.
• 19:55
  So, like, you have to get a little creative on that. And I think also, at least right now, there is, I think, a greater emphasis on hard skills.
• 20:03
  At least I see, I see that to some degree, and when I say hard skills, I kind of mean writing, but I also am thinking a lot about AI, and there are a lot-- Like, if you're looking for an AI role or you're applying for AI roles, like, there's a lot of really cool ways to showcase that work.
• 20:19
  There's, like, a public artifact of it in the same way that there is from writing, and so, like, showcase that. Yeah. I agree with that. I think the other thing I would add is my portfolio was not amazing.
• 20:32
  It was a Google Drive of, you know, of reports and e-books and s- case studies and stuff that I'd, like, worked on. But I had, again, like, a story and a reason behind all of that.
• 20:43
  I think that if I had to take it to the next level, I would've done one of two things.
• 20:47
  I would've made it into, like, one big presentation where I talked about my role in the project, the impact that the project had, so that it would show, like, that project management cross-collaboration, like the things that I was talking about.
• 21:02
  The other thing that I would do, and this is gonna be dependent on, like, how comfortable you are, but adding something like a video voiceover to it, because especially if you're applying for more senior level roles, that is incredibly important to be able to succinctly articulate the value of a project.
• 21:22
  Like, that is what they're gonna be looking for. So if you can show that you can do that without having to say that you can do that, I honestly think that that would be a head turner for me. Absolutely. Absolutely.
• 21:33
  And I think matching the medium, which I feel like you sort of hit on, is also important. Like, as I was reviewing applications for this Reforge role, like, you know, we would get some, like, Word doc
• 21:45
  resumes, and that were talking about AI skills, and I was kinda like, "Show me some." Like- Mm-hmm. Maybe this is possible it's just my own bias, but I kinda feel like Word docs in my mind are, like, years ago.
• 21:58
  You know what I mean? Like- Did you bot code your resume, Jimmy? What did you do? Absolutely. Everything-- I mean, but also, like, that was part of, like,
• 22:06
  I guess to the point, like, I was trying to, like, match the medium. Like, if it's an AI role, you gotta-- like, AI should be the w-way that you build it, the way that you present it, you know?
• 22:16
  Like, because it's part of showcasing skills, so it's hard to, like, look at a Word doc and be like, "Are they-- They say they're good at AI, but this is a Word doc." You know what I mean? Interesting.
• 22:25
  I think this may be a thing that's very specific to an AI role, where, like, I really wanted to see something this person has made. Yeah.
• 22:32
  Yeah, but I bet people would be curious, especially with ATS, you know, how does a non-traditional resume, like, get through ATS? I think that could be a whole nother topic. Wow.
• 22:43
  This is my first time using an ATS that, like, you know, kinda grades every application, and it was, like, insane.
• 22:49
  I-I mean, it was sort of right, but also, like, I just started ignoring it because, like, I wanted to see what was in these resumes and cover l- It filters out so many people based on, like, a very, very surface level overview.
• 23:02
  Like, literally just- Right... the keywords in the resume, so I'm like, "That's ridiculous." Like, I'm not gonna rely on that. Like, I'm gonna-- So I did.
• 23:07
  I went through every single one by hand 'cause I wanted to-- And, like, I picked out a bunch of awesome ones that the ATS would've filtered out. So yeah, you're right. That's, like, a [chuckles] whole nother problem.
• 23:16
  So anyways, yeah, I guess in summary, the TLDR, this journey is a little bit different for everybody, you know?
• 23:24
  I think one thing that you and I have both touched on is, like, this is a thing you have to work on sort of in parallel to the day-to-day work you're doing, and it's probably a good idea.
• 23:32
  It's not easy, but it's probably a good idea to do it, like, in bits and pieces along the way, rather than all at once when you're ready for a role. You know, like, to collect the stuff along the way.
• 23:42
  Like, if you finish a great project, like, kinda jot some notes down about it. You know, if you have access to any numbers, like, make note of those numbers so you could share them later on.
• 23:50
  Update your portfolio if you have a portfolio website. Like, update it every now and then. Yep. And update your LinkedIn too, like your actual profile and summary, and just- Yes...
• 23:59
  start to work on, like, what makes you you. Like, what makes you stand out from, like, the next, you know, wannabe content director or content specialist or whatever it is.
• 24:09
  Because everyone has something that they're obsessed with or that they have, you know, brought to a role time and time again. Like, and- Yeah...
• 24:17
  it'll take a while to figure out what that is, but I think the sooner you can land on what that is, your story should kind of permeate all throughout. Yeah. Love it.
• 24:26
  So if you're out there and you're job searching, we wish you the best of luck. I, I know it's, it's tough out there at the moment.
• 24:33
  And I've posted a bunch of stuff on my LinkedIn recently about my own job search, so I got a whole laundry list of places that I, you know, that I was looking at, job boards, cover letter, resume advice.
• 24:44
  So, like, I know it's tough, but you got this. [chuckles] Yes. Chloe's-- Our LinkedIns are always in the show notes, so go check out Chloe's and go read that stuff. And I do sense that the job market is picking up.
• 24:54
  It-- But it's a little different, you know? It's not the same roles that were, that were out there a couple years ago.
• 25:01
  Like, there's tweaks to them, and so I feel like, you know, looking at what's out there, kinda like understanding where your skills are solid, like maybe there are places where you do need to upskill, present yourself well, et cetera, et cetera.
• 25:12
  Mm-hmm. So anyways, yes, I agree with you, Chloe. You got this. Thank you everyone for listening.
• 25:15
  It's actually fun to talk about this, 'cause this has been on my mind for like five months, and I haven't been able to say anything about it. So it's nice to talk it out. It's cathartic. [chuckles] I love it.
• 25:23
  I'm excited to hear more about your, your new role, Jimmy. [chuckles] Yeah. Awesome. Well, thanks, Chloe. Good to chat. We'll be back next week with Eric, and in the meantime, thank you everybody for listening.
• 25:35
  [outro music]