Latest / Mortgage Marketing Radio / Ep# 63: Building Your Foundation to Sustainable Success

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Ep# 63: Building Your Foundation to Sustainable Success · Mortgage Marketing Radio

• 0:00
  In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with
• 0:04
  the real estate agents is essential for success.
• 0:06
  However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge.
• 0:11
  With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents, it
• 0:15
  can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections.
• 0:20
  Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Cogill is a must-read.
• 0:25
  Chris has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals.
• 0:31
  And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships
• 0:34
  with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business.
• 0:39
  To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy
• 0:45
  of the case study today.
• 0:47
  You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million
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  in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can too.
• 0:56
  Don't miss out.
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  Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today.
• 1:17
  Mortgage Marketing Radio Brought to you by the Mortgage Marketing Institute,
• 1:22
  your number one source for truth in mortgage marketing.
• 1:34
  Hey listeners, Jeff Zimper, welcome to this episode of Mortgage Marketing Radio.
• 1:39
  Thanks for tuning in.
• 1:41
  And what seems to be growing in popularity is these free t-shirts, this free swag that
• 1:47
  we've been given away at Mortgage Marketing Radio.
• 1:50
  I've got a closet full of these, both sizes, large and extra large, Mortgage Marketing
• 1:55
  Radio t-shirts.
• 1:56
  So if you're loving the podcast, you're getting value out of it.
• 1:59
  I appreciate you being a listener and follower, grateful for that.
• 2:03
  And I want to reward you for following and listening and continue this journey together.
• 2:09
  And to do so, I'm thanking you with a free t-shirt.
• 2:13
  How do I do that?
• 2:14
  Real simple, leave me a review on iTunes on the podcast, a couple of three, four, five
• 2:19
  stars there, whatever you want to do, a couple of comments, let me know what you get out
• 2:22
  of the podcast, any specific results that it's helped you achieve.
• 2:25
  Once you do that, just email me that you've left a review and include your mailing information
• 2:30
  and your shirt size, larger, extra large.
• 2:33
  And I'll send you out a free t-shirt, matter of fact, I got two recipients of the t-shirt
• 2:37
  right here.
• 2:38
  Let me announce their names.
• 2:39
  Here we are, which we got Cody Fraer out of Bakersfield, California, Rick Vargas out
• 2:45
  of Santa Fe, New Mexico, and Jeff Aguilera, also out of Bakersfield.
• 2:50
  So hopefully Cody and Jeff don't run into each other at Chipotle, both wearing the same
• 2:55
  t-shirt.
• 2:56
  There's fights going to break out there, I think.
• 2:58
  So anyway, that's how you get your free t-shirt, right?
• 3:00
  Just email me info at mortgagemarketinginstitute.com.
• 3:04
  Let me know you left a review, mailing address, send shirt size, and we'll get that off to
• 3:08
  you ASAP.
• 3:09
  So let's get into this week's episode, such a big fan of my guest this week, Kelly rescindes.
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  She's the EVP of sales and business development for Paramount Partners Group, which is a division
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  of Paramount Equity mortgage.
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  Kelly is just a rock star.
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  Not only a former top producer over 15 years, 20 years actually in the industry, but 15
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  years at the old Washington Mutual, if anybody remembers that, Wells Fargo, and then of course
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  now, right, since 2011, EVP of sales for Paramount Partners, and a consistent mega producer
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  top performer, always ranked in the top 1% of the company she's worked at.
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  And what I love about Kelly is that she not only has the plan and the tactics of the strategy
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  of how do you become more efficient and effective in your business, but how do you become
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  more efficient as a person on your day to day life, right?
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  How are you showing up not only in your job, but in your personal life?
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  And are you intentional in creating and designing the life that you're truly intended and capable
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  of living, if you will?
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  So every time I have a chance to talk with Kelly, it's just, it's like a lesson, right?
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  It's like a wisdom, a lesson in wisdom and knowledge and just dropping some serious
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  bombs.
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  So I know that you're going to enjoy this session with Kelly as much as I have.
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  She's come out with a brand new book.
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  There's a link in the show notes.
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  It's called Foundation to Sustainable Success, a guide to mastering the mortgage business.
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  I'm going to put links to the show notes in there.
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  She on her website, she's actually got downloadable resources that you as a loan officer can use
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  to help build a business plan.
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  You're daily and weekly activities, kind of an accountability structure for you and all
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  that stuff.
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  So definitely check that out in the show notes for links to get access to her book and all
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  those free resources.
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  And there's so much content that Kelly always brings to share, so much good stuff in this
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  book.
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  I mean, I barely scratch the surface.
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  So Kelly agreed to come back and do a part two of this interview in the new year.
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  So with that said, let's transition into this week's show.
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  Kelly, welcome to the show.
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  Hi, Jeff.
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  How you doing?
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  Fantastic.
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  I'm trying to think the last time that I interviewed you was about three years ago, probably.
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  Is that right?
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  I love time.
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  Yeah.
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  A lot's changed.
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  Absolutely.
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  And I'm so glad to reconnect with you on a number of fronts, but number one primarily
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  because of your brand new book, Foundation to Sustainable Success, a conscious guide
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  to mastering the mortgage business.
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  Congratulations for writing a book.
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  Thank you.
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  We're going to talk about it.
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  Obviously, I'm going to put links to the book and the show notes and other stuff and resources
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  that we mentioned here so people can get your book and connect with you.
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  And I'm going to unpack the book today, as you know, but for the listeners, right?
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  They heard the official interview, kind of some background on new stats, but what's
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  the big headline?
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  Who's Kelly recent as what is she all about?
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  Yeah.
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  You know, I've been in this industry for a long time and super passionate about helping
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  people within our industry just create more joy, just interviewing loan officers and real
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  estate agents and other people.
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  The one thing is everyone wants to be successful that's out there, but unfortunately a lot of
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  people don't feel like a success personally.
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  And so my purpose has really just been drilled down into making a huge impact in people's
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  lives and helping them increase their joy and reduce their suffering and just giving
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  them some new ways to think differently about how they approach this industry.
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  Yeah.
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  And I have to say, you know, the last time I interviewed you and I think why, you know,
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  if I dare say, right, how does special connection with you in a way is because of that of where
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  you're coming from, right?
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  That heart-centered kind of leadership and we're truly wanting to make a difference that
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  really shows up in who you are in your communication style and definitely in this book.
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  So just, you know, I just want to acknowledge you for that because, you know, not everybody
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  in this industry comes from that place.
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  Yeah.
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  And that's part of it.
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  I think that's why we have such a high level of burnout is that a lot of companies and
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  individuals have prioritized, you know, competition or ego over compassion and joy and just, you
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  know, connection.
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  So I definitely love to see that change in our industry going forward.
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  Those are some pretty foreign words in the mortgage industry.
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  Yeah.
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  For sure.
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  Passion, joy, right?
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  For going ego and profit?
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  What are you talking about?
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  I know.
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  I know.
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  Well, the good news is that you can still prosper and live and he goes, egoless life in this
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  business.
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  So it is not, you know, a trade-in.
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  It is a different way to approach the business.
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  Yeah.
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  Hey, man, to that.
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  And I have to tell you and you know this as well, you know, I've interviewed, of course,
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  a lot of top producers.
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  You are, you know, are and have been a top producer and you work with a lot.
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  That's one of the things I definitely find about the top producers is they are heart-centered
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  and they do, you know, as Dave Ramsey says, leads with the heart of a teacher, not of a
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  salesperson.
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  You've seen that as well.
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  Yeah, I think, I think we've seen both, to be honest.
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  We all encounter top producers that probably haven't evolved to that level yet, but there
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  are definitely people that are in our industry that are at the top that a lot of times you
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  don't even know about it.
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  You know, my mentor is somebody in the industry that has in certain years done over a billion
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  dollars in personal production and most people don't even know his name.
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  And so it is refreshing when you come across people like that and ones that just, you know,
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  are in a place where they're willing to share whatever they've done with other people,
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  but in a very humble fashion.
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  But we definitely have both.
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  We still have those top producers that you run into and they've got to tell you the
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  second that they meet you, how big their pipeline is, which is, you know, something that
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  you just see that level of significance that they crave on this industry.
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  Hmm.
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  Interesting.
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  Well, and so I think our topic then is good for today.
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  You know, the title of the book, Foundations is Sustainable Success.
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  Why that title?
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  Yeah, I think that everyone has achieved success at some point in this industry, whether
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  you had a great year, a great month or just, you know, had some success in meeting agents
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  and building relationships.
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  But I think what's incredibly difficult to do is to build a foundation for yourself
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  that you feel fulfilled and you know that it's sustainable and able to weather any market
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  changes, whether that's program changes, rate changes, inventory changes, just it really
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  is not dependent on anything external.
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  And that's really what the title is about is just building that internal platform that
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  allows you to be successful in any market.
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  Hmm.
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  Yeah, and I love the fact that you've combined those two things.
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  I find very important for any loan officers I might be coaching, which is number one, start
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  with a foundation because without that, your results aren't going to be sustainable.
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  Yeah.
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  And a lot of times you're just only as good as your last best month.
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  And I think that's what I see as so many producers that are out there just live in fear that
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  they might have a great month and then they have to start over.
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  And when you really drill down into some specifics in their business that can create more predictability
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  and more success long term, it will help them feel much better about what's going on in their
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  business.
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  Absolutely.
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  Okay.
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  So let's start unpack some of the things from the book.
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  I obviously have highlighted and tabbed a bunch of different, I've got about 20, 20 different
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  red tabs on this thing.
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  So we're going to get cranking here.
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  I'm going to start from the beginning because, listen, I believe this so much is that you
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  right out of the page two of your book, you talk about that you've got to be open to reinventing
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  yourself or your business to adapt to the changing market.
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  What do you, do you see loan officers open minded enough to reinvent themselves?
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  You know, you see, you see a mixture of both.
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  I think that we can separate people into either having a fixed mindset or a growth mindset.
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  And I believe somebody with a growth mindset writes a new story every day.
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  I look back on my personal growth journey and every day I think I grew a little bit more.
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  And you really have to be willing to be detached to whatever it was that created success
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  for you yesterday and just be open and willing to look at things differently.
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  We can learn a lot from one another if we're just more open minded.
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  Okay.
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  Well, one of the things you talk about is your mindset, right?
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  And we've got to start with our mindset and our core beliefs.
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  And I so align with that as well.
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  I think that relates to the title of your book is the foundation because what I find in
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  coaching loan officers often is that's the first call it a problem area, if you will,
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  opportunity is the mindset.
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  Yeah, and I think we're the start.
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  If you think about why I called it a conscious guide, really I'm trying to increase
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  mindfulness in our industry, which means you have the self awareness to know what you bring
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  to the table and mindset is the top thing that all of us bring to the table.
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  And so if you really see somebody that's complaining or, you know, their company never has
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  the best rates or process or whatever it is and you see somebody constantly looking
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  at external factors that change how they feel personally, that's really where we need
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  to see the largest shift is the complete ownership that regardless of what external
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  circumstances exist in your life or problems or whatnot, that you have this unshakable
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  mindset that says, this is happening for me right now.
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  I have an opportunity to grow myself, either in accepting of the situation or making a
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  decision to change it.
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  And there's a lot of entitlement and complaining amongst industry producers that are out there.
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  And when you think about it, it runs most of us in leadership positions ragged because
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  we then start to feel like we can never do enough to be able to, you know, satisfy
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  their endless list of preferences and cravings.
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  And so we've got to shift the mindset.
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  I mean, not really is where, you know, where things change.
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  It's not that my life is better than anyone else.
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  It's that I approach it differently.
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  And that's why I'm in a constant state of joy versus everything always goes right for
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  me.
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  And that's really not what it is.
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  So when you make that commitment that mindset is the most important thing that you can develop
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  in your business, it will change everything for you.
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  Well, what are some things people can do or that you've done to number one, have that
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  self-awareness, right?
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  And you know, you talk a lot about like triggers and stuff in the book, but to start to have
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  that awareness and then make some mindset shifts.
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  Yeah.
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  The first thing that you have to do is be open to the idea that you are not your thoughts.
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  That is really what mindfulness is.
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  It's the separation between who you are, that amazing, authentic masterpiece and all of
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  these other thoughts that have been, you know, trying to steal your joy for as long as
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  you can probably remember.
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  And so it's just a process of waking up to that idea that you have the awareness to
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  know that your thoughts and your emotions don't define who you are.
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  And then once you get to that place of awareness, you can start to rebuild the person that you
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  want to become.
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  And so for my life, what worked best was I just came up with this unshakable mindset,
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  you know, and outlined the beliefs and themes that I needed to adopt in my life that would
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  just change how everything around me affected my state.
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  And so I really, you know, when I share that in the book, I share what I believe would
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  be a good start to a success mindset.
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  Yeah.
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  And I know you talk about different levels here as well, right?
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  Level one, two, and three, as we go on this journey.
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  Yeah.
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  And really level one is about who you're being.
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  And that kind of includes your mindset, your core beliefs, you know, your emotional intelligence
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  as you approach every single day, how you manage triggers and self-sabotage.
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  Because how we show up is really going to, you know, determine how we approach our goals
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  in our business plan and our relationships and our ability to get more referrals or develop
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  longer term relationships with referral partners.
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  So, you know, focusing on that first level of just who you're being and getting that mindset
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  to a place where it is unshakable will help you, you know, some tips that, you know,
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  I have used in my life are, you know, I kind of have my morning routine and it includes
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  reviewing my I am statement.
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  So if I'm somebody that's not very patient today and loses my cool, I would probably,
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  you know, create a mindset and an I am statement list around that that I am patient.
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  I am accepting.
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  I am stable.
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  Some of the things that might actually be the opposite of who you are today and you
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  can just kind of start reprogramming your mindset for the first time.
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  Well, and that's why I like the way your book kind of takes us through this is it starts
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  with kind of that core foundational stuff, right, which is mindset.
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  And I think the point you're making in the book here is that unless you've got, right,
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  level one, the foundation, your mindset, right, you've got to have that under control
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  before any system will work, but I think also a system would, would sometimes help people
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  deal, right, better deal if they're triggered.
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  Does that make sense?
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  Absolutely.
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  I mean, I want to say it's not a requirement.
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  So there are a lot of successful people that just have goals and have a business plan
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  and they execute great, which are the second two levels of the book.
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  But what I find with, with people that haven't focused on their own level of joy is that
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  they're either, I mean, they're either just lacking something in their life, like happiness
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  or a feeling of success, or they treat other people very poorly.
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  And it's one of those two categories that usually happens because we know people that
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  are just achievement focused only.
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  And they're the ones that have high turnover.
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  I mean, if you're somebody that has a team that's listening today, just to be brutally
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  honest, if you've had a lot of turnover in the last year, that is where you've got
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  to focus more on your own self awareness, because people will want to work with you.
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  They will want to support you if you're somebody that really is being, you know, somebody
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  that is successful on the inside, as well as on the outside.
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  So what you're proposing and what your book is really all about is not just exclusively
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  strategies and tactics of how do I originate more loan volume?
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  It's how do I also become the best version of me that I can.
• 19:07
  Absolutely.
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  And really just being more mindful, you know, if we lived in a more conscious nation,
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  and I'm just going to kind of say nation because most of the people on the call live here,
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  it would change just a level of harmony.
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  I mean, we're in a world right now in an industry where we're plagued with addiction
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  and unhappiness and people having financial devastation and then success the next day
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  and then devastation again, the next.
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  Like it is, I've just never felt like we've had a better opportunity to really just
• 19:44
  become more conscious of how we show up, how we impact the people that are around us.
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  People don't realize, you know, one email that you send that is really critical
• 19:56
  and really judgmental of somebody else, it just has a ripple effect in someone's life.
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  And we've got a responsibility.
• 20:05
  If you're on the call and you want to be a top producer,
• 20:08
  like we want to be kind and compassionate and be somebody that other people can respect.
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  We don't want to be that power, hungry person that nobody wants to emulate.
• 20:21
  Absolutely.
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  And that of course, you know, has an impact on our referability as well.
• 20:25
  If we are, you know, being that toxic person.
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  Yeah.
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  And I think what I watched a lot of top producers do is cater to their referral partners
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  and cater to the people that they believe bring them revenue.
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  And then they turn around and they treat the escrow officer or, you know,
• 20:45
  the internal office staff or other people poorly and it's going to impact you.
• 20:52
  It will absolutely impact you.
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  They are just as important to your business as the people that are referring business to you.
• 21:01
  Yeah.
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  So there's some self work to be done there.
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  And as you talk about in your book, right?
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  Well, those levels are number one is our emotional intelligence, right?
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  It's our foundation.
• 21:12
  Absolutely.
• 21:13
  Okay.
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  Level two is this is the second later layer where we dive in actual strategies and vision
• 21:18
  and business and marketing plans and then level three is execution.
• 21:21
  So moving forward, we'll kind of touch on some of these areas a little bit deeper.
• 21:26
  But I like what you talk about.
• 21:28
  I think this is such a relevant point to bring up for people, particularly in this idea of sustainability.
• 21:33
  You and I both know, right?
• 21:34
  Many elbows around the rollercoaster ride up, down, up, down.
• 21:36
  Why does that happen?
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  They keep wondering that.
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  And I've been preaching this for a long time because you talk about creating a predictable model.
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  And people are in that scarcity mindset, which you refer to earlier, right?
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  With people blaming others, excuses, et cetera.
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  But I love what you talked about here.
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  I highlighted this as a lesson.
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  Talk about how the truth, the ugly truth is everybody wake up every day, just excited about there.
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  They got to do every day.
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  Yeah.
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  I would tell you that as you kind of chat with different people and see how they show up at work in the morning,
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  I would probably guess that the majority of people in this business don't wake up very excited
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  about what they're going to have to do that day, whether it's a combination between going out
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  and calling on new contacts or dealing with that loan that, you know, maybe a low appraisal came in
• 22:32
  and you've got to make a tough phone call or or deal with things that you really don't want to do.
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  But I don't think that most people wake up and actually love this industry.
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  And I think a lot of the reason for that is because most of us value freedom, deep down,
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  that's a core value that a lot of humans really like.
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  And this industry has actually created some issues with that because of the amount of money
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  that people can make, they lack the freedom to really be able to do what they want to do.
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  And maybe, you know, they've woken up over a period of time and yet they have this lifestyle
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  that they've got to stay in this industry to be able to support. And I think that's really where you
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  can go through some self-identification and figure out ways that you can have a lot more fun
• 23:24
  and be creative and be in the mortgage industry at the same time. I mean, take, for instance,
• 23:30
  what you're doing, you know, this is, it's something that is a little bit outside of the
• 23:35
  mortgage industry, but you enjoy it. Being able to offer, you know, this podcast and this
• 23:41
  impact that's really going to change people's lives, like all of us have that same capability
• 23:47
  just from our desk, whether it's going out and connecting with realtors and doing charity work
• 23:54
  or doing so many other things that could bring us joy. I just think that it can become groundhogs
• 24:01
  day. And so you don't get excited about waking up and going to making, you know, 10 realtors
• 24:07
  calls or getting rejected by nine people over the course of eight hours. It definitely, you've
• 24:13
  got to be in that state where this industry is not going to steal your joy. So you touched on
• 24:19
  something there about you said, go volunteer with realtors or whoever. And on a couple of calls,
• 24:23
  I've been on recently with realtors. I've had that conversation where, you know, and I'm sure
• 24:27
  you've heard it where, you know, they say something like, you know, I just don't, I don't know if I'm
• 24:31
  I'm passionate about this anymore. They start questioning, right? Whether they should do it or not.
• 24:36
  What advice do you give somebody when that you hear that? Yeah, you know, I'm going to tell you
• 24:41
  that there are two Ps that have actually had a big impact on how people view happiness in the
• 24:47
  last 10 years. And that's passion and purpose. We hear a lot more about them if you're on social
• 24:53
  media. It's do you have passion? Do you have purpose? That kind of thing. I think that we've got
• 24:59
  to kind of approach this from a from a from a different P, which is just the practicality of the
• 25:04
  fact that we need to earn a living. And you don't have to be passionate about doing loans. You can
• 25:11
  jump into this industry, make a great living, jump out and go find your passion, playing a musical
• 25:16
  instrument or hiking or doing whatever it is that you love. Nothing says that you have to have
• 25:21
  passion in what you're doing. And so, you know, I really tell people and encourage them, like,
• 25:28
  break down your day, hire yourself to make widgets for half of the day. You know, go to work,
• 25:34
  actually do a job. I can tell you that my parents weren't thinking about passion when they showed up
• 25:39
  to support my family. But we've gotten, you know, we've really gotten away from that. And it's a
• 25:45
  combination of both. You know, I've been able to find my passion in leaving my job originating
• 25:52
  and leading a company because I have a greater passion for impacting people and other things. So,
• 25:59
  I think that what you've got to do is just find a way to be more disciplined and present. And
• 26:07
  the passion is going to come, like try new things and you'll figure out new things within your
• 26:12
  business that you actually enjoy doing. Yeah, try new things for sure. I love what you said,
• 26:17
  though, about volunteering with realtors or whoever else, right? Other affiliates that you work
• 26:22
  with and around your business. So, that's great advice, by the way. I'm glad you kind of brought
• 26:25
  that back to reality. And for whatever reason, right? It's like, oh my gosh, we all need to be so
• 26:29
  fulfilled and inspired all day long 24-7 today. And great example with your parents there as well,
• 26:35
  because most of us are in that age bracket where we remember our parents. I can guarantee you,
• 26:40
  yeah, my mom, right? Single mom. She didn't enjoy going to the bank, being a bank teller.
• 26:44
  I'm sure she was passionate about that, but she had two kids to feed at home, you know?
• 26:48
  Yeah. And just to kind of go back to that giving because we talked about it,
• 26:53
  part of the reason for increasing mindfulness and consciousness across this industry and
• 27:01
  you know, I would just say the nation is so that we can be in a place where we are of service
• 27:06
  to other people. It has been proven that the greatest level of joy that we achieve in our life
• 27:12
  is when we are, you know, in connection and service for other people. And so you can do that
• 27:19
  in this industry. I mean, whether it's, you know, habitat for humanity or going down and
• 27:25
  grabbing tenor agents and working in a soup kitchen and doing that kind of thing, just getting out
• 27:31
  of our self-absorbed lives for a minute and sharing the gratitude that this industry has given to
• 27:38
  us would would make a huge impact in the world. It's funny the impact that that actually has on
• 27:45
  your business too. As you come back more centered, more balanced, right? Perhaps a little more patient,
• 27:51
  grateful. Yeah. And gratitude is one of those that in the mindset that you need to be successful.
• 27:59
  Like it has to be included in there. If you do not have a grateful heart, it is extremely difficult
• 28:06
  to live a life of joy. Good point. And the other thing I want to touch on before we move off of this
• 28:11
  is I also brought that up because I want to speak to those that are listening that think that
• 28:17
  calling agents should always be fun and talking about loans and taking apps should always be fun.
• 28:23
  And I'm just so glad that you made the point that much of what we need to do to have success,
• 28:31
  as you say in the book, building sustainability is about repetitiveness and doing the same things
• 28:37
  every day that you know will make you successful. And I love, I say these exact words, the stuff that's
• 28:44
  going to make you successful, it's not exciting. It's not sexy. It's boring. Yeah.
• 28:51
  Unless you like, you know, totally love making cold calls. And that's awesome. Maybe you're that
• 28:55
  person. I don't know. Maybe, you know, you love doing that intake, you know, app with somebody
• 29:00
  and spending two hours doing your high trust interview. That's cool. But I think everybody gets the
• 29:04
  point. It's like, look, not every aspect of of our careers are going to be just so joy filled.
• 29:09
  Yeah. And of our life in general, you know, one of the most of life is boring and mundane, isn't it?
• 29:15
  Yeah. And well, in order to really build sustainable joy, where you are capable of maintaining
• 29:23
  happiness in spite of whatever's going on in your life. And we all, you know, we can't,
• 29:29
  we can't run away from problems and family crises and everything else in our life. So you've
• 29:35
  got to stay in that, in that place. Yeah. And like you said, let's, let's, let's live in reality as
• 29:41
  well. We need to make a living. We need to write. Yeah. And I would say, you know, the secret,
• 29:48
  having been a top producer and and coaching a lot of top producers in my career as well,
• 29:54
  is that like, we don't love doing all those things. And I think that the difference that people
• 30:00
  need to adopt is that discipline is what's important. Like, I'm asked all the time, how do you stay
• 30:07
  so motivated? And I'm honest, I don't even know what motivation is. So I'm so disciplined that
• 30:13
  I don't have to think about whether or not I feel like doing something. And I always joke,
• 30:19
  like you might think I love eating kale, but I really think it's disgusting, but I still eat it
• 30:26
  because I know that there's such health advantages to my to my body. And the same goes with, you
• 30:32
  know, picking up the phone and making those calls and being able to do all those things, like,
• 30:37
  quit thinking so much. Like, that's the part where your thoughts are what are creating the issues
• 30:45
  in your business. It's not actually making the calls. It's the thought about making the calls. And
• 30:51
  you've got to get that self awareness to be able to know, like, not doing this is going to come
• 30:57
  at a cost. And what we're doing, when we're not doing what we're supposed to be doing is
• 31:02
  ridiculously silly. Like, when I look at the amount of time people spend on, you know, the internet
• 31:09
  just looking at clothes or on social media or playing games or doing all these other things,
• 31:15
  watching TV, you add up all that time from last year. If you would have just taken like a
• 31:20
  sliver of it and been more productive and disciplined, you'd probably be healthier, be happier,
• 31:27
  and have a lot more financial abundance for your family. Yeah. Big, big lesson there, discipline,
• 31:32
  discipline makes me think of my, uh, one of my favorite podcasts, Jaco, right? Yeah. Yeah,
• 31:39
  you know, his tagline, right? Discipline equals freedom. Absolutely. And it's not fun. Just accept
• 31:44
  that it's not fun. And the people that are doing it, probably not having fun. So all the top
• 31:49
  producers are making a lot of calls. They're not having fun. That's not fun, but it's worth it.
• 31:57
  Now to to that point, right? We can hire people when we get to a certain level to outsource that
• 32:03
  assistance or whatnot to do the stuff. Either we're not good at or don't want to do, but depending
• 32:07
  where you're at, you just made me to suck it up and do it for a while. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. All
• 32:13
  right. So let's transition into some general beliefs of top producers. I'm not going to hit you
• 32:17
  with all these. I'm just a couple that stood out for me. But I love the fact that you say, um,
• 32:22
  well, this, their number one priority of top producers, according to, uh, you, which you would know,
• 32:27
  is, uh, opportunity and lead creation. Yes. And this, if you look at what most people spend their
• 32:36
  time doing in this industry is not the top item on their agenda. I mean, people are going to
• 32:42
  start gravitating towards things that they're good at, which the amount of time that loan office
• 32:47
  or spend on their working pipeline is ludicrous. And, you know, just our level of trust, I'd say,
• 32:54
  for our teammates to do their part is low. And so that's something that you have to focus on doing
• 33:00
  because every single day, it needs to be scheduled time, whether it's going out in the field to
• 33:06
  develop new relationships or calling your existing database or coming up with new strategies to be
• 33:13
  able to market. You've got to make sure that that is prioritized on your schedule every single day.
• 33:20
  You talk about, um, spending at least 50% of your time on hunting for new business.
• 33:25
  Yeah. I would recommend that. I think everyone on the call has probably heard a lot of the,
• 33:32
  you know, fears and other things that have been created in our industry that technology is going
• 33:36
  to replace a lot of what a loan officer's doing. And I'll tell you what my opinion is. I believe
• 33:43
  we're just another lead source. So if you think about the internet or some of the other things,
• 33:48
  those are lead sources. So somebody might get, you know, new clients because they've got a great
• 33:54
  website or portal or whatnot, our ability to be feet on the street or just another lead portal.
• 34:00
  And so that is really what our value is. We've got to get away from the value is taking a
• 34:04
  loan application and gathering customer information because at some point, that's going to be done
• 34:09
  for us. I mean, somebody 10 years from now might be able to put their thumb on a thumbprint screen
• 34:16
  and have every ounce of information brought up about them for us not to have to worry about,
• 34:22
  but it's the connection. It's that ability to help them plan their future wealth,
• 34:28
  plan their future financial goals, other things that's really going to be able to differentiate us
• 34:33
  and not be something that the internet can provide. So creating opportunities has got to be your
• 34:40
  top priority. So not only creating opportunities, but also just by your sheer kind of illustration
• 34:46
  of technology and it obviously already, right, online apps and all that kind of displacing
• 34:51
  much of what NLO used to do has taken apps, then we need to get much more intentional than
• 34:57
  as well about that that customer experience process, right? Absolutely. When you sit down with
• 35:05
  somebody, I mean, we have such an ability to make a difference in their life for the next 30
• 35:12
  years, just in the questions that we ask or the curiosity that we kind of bring up because there's
• 35:18
  so many people out there that are miserable financially. Maybe they don't know how to budget.
• 35:23
  They've never thought about retirement, but every single night they go to sleep, they're worried
• 35:28
  about it. We are in a very high impact seat and we've got to realize we may be the only person
• 35:34
  that they sit down with in person. A lot of people don't ever meet with their retirement,
• 35:40
  you know, plan or anyone else and we've just, we've got to do a better job of meeting people
• 35:47
  in person. So, you know, I want to pause on that. It's clearly then your believer that L.O.
• 35:51
  should be meeting face to face when possible. They should. And if you look at the statistics on
• 35:57
  closing rates, whether it's, you know, from the National Association of Realters or anyone else,
• 36:02
  you have just a much higher chance of closing if you meet somebody face to face.
• 36:08
  And I know I've interviewed a number of top producers that subscribe to the same belief.
• 36:14
  Let's hear your response then to those, to the response from the customer who's like,
• 36:18
  I just don't have time. Can we just do it over the phone or man, can I do it online or, you know,
• 36:22
  how do you respond to those objections? Well, I think you have to evaluate your own vision
• 36:27
  for your business and just realize like how are you spending your time? We can set boundaries,
• 36:32
  you know, if somebody doesn't have time for us, we can make a decision that we don't have time
• 36:37
  for them or or we can say, hey, let me just explain this process to you over the phone and why it's
• 36:44
  important. And if you make a decision not to meet me, I'm still going to help you. But what I can
• 36:49
  tell you is that it's just going to be a different experience for you. Hopefully we talk a little
• 36:55
  bit about my my referral recommendations here on the call, but you just have a much higher chance
• 37:02
  of increasing your referability if you meet with them in person. And you have a much lower
• 37:08
  chance of getting referrals from somebody that you don't meet in person. So you just have to look
• 37:13
  at it and say, is this transaction worth it? Is it going to take my time away from people that I
• 37:18
  should actually be helping and building? And it's just really up to you because we all can look
• 37:25
  back and say, I should have fired more people in my career. The ones that don't have time for you
• 37:31
  are the same ones that are going to drag their feet getting things over. And you know, may not
• 37:37
  value what you're doing for them. And it might just look at you as a commodity. And I know that
• 37:41
  I don't like feeling like a commodity. Well, yeah. And so speaking of commodity, that you know,
• 37:47
  goes back to mindset, right? And something I often ask loan officers, are you a transactional
• 37:53
  loan officer or relational loan officer? Because the transactional one is someone who's just going to
• 37:58
  take the app, sure, you want to quote, here's what it is. And then all of a sudden your whole
• 38:02
  conversation from then on is all about price, not advice, and where that leads. You mentioned
• 38:07
  the referability. And let's definitely, while we're there, let's unpack that because I don't want
• 38:10
  to miss that. And I love that in your book, you have like referral efficiency targets and things
• 38:16
  like that. And you have, you know, you talk about database management. Where do you want to start
• 38:21
  there? Yeah, I would just say, you know, my general belief, and this came from, you know, starting
• 38:26
  in this industry in the late 90s and just recognizing, I mean, I think I exactly five minutes after
• 38:33
  I took my first job, interest rates went up by a full percent. And everyone around me was panicked.
• 38:42
  It was, I mean, I was in an office that was thriving and everyone was excited and rates go up,
• 38:48
  one full percent and boom, everyone, you know, just their state changed overnight. And I started
• 38:54
  to watch what people around me did and I realized that what I was seeing was they weren't pulling
• 39:00
  enough opportunity from their existing opportunity. And so I started to just make more granular goals
• 39:07
  for myself, like for every single person that I did alone for, if I set an actual tangible goal,
• 39:16
  I was going to be able to increase my business a lot faster. And so I started sharing that message
• 39:21
  with people. So instead of just saying, hey, I'd appreciate it if you send anybody to me that
• 39:27
  needs a loan, I would, I would be more specific. And that specific, you know, script was, you know,
• 39:34
  my goal is over the course of a year, you're going to refer at least two people to me that either
• 39:39
  need to refinance or purchase. And at the time, I didn't realize, you know, the, the science behind
• 39:47
  why you need to be clear and what you asked for. But over a period of time, I did. And we were able
• 39:53
  to build our business very quickly by having a referral efficiency of two, which meant we were
• 39:59
  getting two referrals annually from everyone that we closed alone for. And there were some people
• 40:04
  that referred for people and we had, you know, some people that didn't refer any, but we had a target.
• 40:11
  And that's really what you're trying to accomplish by adopting this referral efficiency
• 40:17
  is that you actually have a specific goal for referrals. Instead of this generalization that,
• 40:24
  oh, yeah, I work by referral. Well, I meet with people that have been in the industry for 15 years
• 40:29
  that are doing 15 million a year and they tell me they work by referral. And, and no offense,
• 40:36
  I laugh hysterically to myself because that would be virtually impossible. You know, if you really
• 40:43
  were focused on getting referrals, your business should go up every single year regardless of what
• 40:49
  the market's doing. And so just telling people what your goal is, you know, I'm really clear when I,
• 40:55
  when I talk to people, you know, I'm going to have my best 2018 yet and I need your help. And this
• 41:02
  is the way that you can help me. And I've also studied communication styles in my career and
• 41:09
  getting people to make more promises to you when you make promises to them will also drive human
• 41:16
  behavior as well. So just making that goal and knowing that if you manage your database different
• 41:24
  and pull more referrals from it, like there will be that that time in your life where you no longer
• 41:31
  have to go out and hunt for more business because you've created enough opportunity for yourself,
• 41:36
  which I think for any top producers where you want to be. Excellent. I love the scripting that you
• 41:41
  kind of tied in there. When do you typically, you know, deliver that message such as, hey,
• 41:47
  you know, I'm going to have 2018's can be my best year ever. Here's how you can help me do that.
• 41:52
  Are you doing that up front or towards after clothes? I would do it forever. So basically, I would
• 41:58
  have a tracking tool whether it's, you know, hopefully you've got a great customer relationship
• 42:04
  manager or some way to do it, but every single phone call that you make to your database and,
• 42:09
  you know, at a minimum, somebody should be calling quarterly if not monthly, if they have the capacity
• 42:15
  to. Fifth, are you decision made? What is the focus of every single call? You know, the number one
• 42:21
  focus is just to develop a deeper relationship with your customer so that you can be of service to
• 42:27
  them and they can also help you build your business. But every single call you want to make, you know,
• 42:34
  I mean, celebrate like, hey, your halfway there. I helped the Smiths last month. It was great.
• 42:39
  I really appreciate it. Do you have, you know, do you have my cards? Do you think you need more at work?
• 42:45
  Do you think you need more at home? I mean, a simple question to loan officers across the nation.
• 42:51
  I always ask them like, can you tell me right now? Is every single person in your database prepared
• 42:58
  to hand out your business card at work at home? And most people don't ever send business cards to
• 43:03
  somebody's work, but we found in our business that 60% of our referrals were coming from co-workers,
• 43:10
  not from friends or family. And so we had to make sure with every phone call it was, do you have
• 43:15
  enough of my cards? You know, when you overhear somebody talking about buying a home, I mean,
• 43:21
  we were training our database to really be just kind of our greatest source of referrals.
• 43:29
  What do you think gets in the way of most LOS actually making time to co-, because, you know,
• 43:35
  you've heard it so many times. Oh, I know I should be. What the hell keeps getting in their way?
• 43:40
  Yeah, it's just self-sabotage. I mean, when you really unpack like why we aren't where we believe
• 43:45
  we should be or somebody hasn't actualized their own potential or, you know, an LOS getting in the way
• 43:51
  of their own success. I mean, it just comes down to something super simple. It's just they're just
• 43:57
  sabotaging themselves. They're not doing what they know they should be doing when they're supposed
• 44:01
  to be doing it because of some other deeper reason most of the time. Whether they're really lazy,
• 44:08
  they don't think that they're worthy of the success. They don't know what they're going to do with it.
• 44:13
  It's just they're not prepared to handle it like we don't really know, but it's pretty simple to
• 44:19
  overcome when somebody adopts a discipline mindset and they just come up with proven activities that
• 44:27
  yield proven results. And, you know, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know how to build a
• 44:33
  mortgage business like call more people, talk to more realtors and find additional, you know,
• 44:40
  referral sources. And the reason why there's only, you know, a handful of top producers to the rest
• 44:46
  of the, the, I'm in a college is mediocre people that are in our industry is because the mediocre
• 44:54
  people just haven't made the decision. Like they just haven't made the decision to push themselves.
• 45:00
  Now, it made the decision ties into then kind of the vision for yourself and your business.
• 45:07
  Absolutely. I mean, once you make a decision, then it's easy. Now, you've got a vision, you've got
• 45:12
  your goals, you've got your plan, you can, you know, come up with your referral efficiency rate,
• 45:18
  you can focus on developing more realtor relationships and just kind of move forward. But I just think
• 45:24
  that we've got way too many people that should be employees that are trying to run businesses
• 45:30
  in mortgage. And we need to, I mean, you either need to be self motivated or you need to be told
• 45:35
  what to do. And it just the, you know, with the average fundings per loan officer at two right
• 45:42
  now, that, that tells us one of two things. Either you got people making way too much money by closing
• 45:49
  one loan, which is not sustainable. You know, we know margins are going to get compressed in the
• 45:55
  future. So you better prepare the doing five to six loans is probably going to yield a similar
• 46:01
  income at some point in the future. You know, so we've got, we've got that situation or we've just
• 46:09
  got people that are barely doing anything to close a couple loans. And I don't think that those
• 46:15
  people are going to be able to move forward either. And they should get a job with a company that's
• 46:20
  providing leads. They should get a job someplace where they've got minimum hours and minimum requirements
• 46:26
  because they just, they haven't done anything with the freedom of being a 100% commissioned person
• 46:32
  has provided. Yeah, that goes back to self awareness understanding, you know, are you the type of
• 46:38
  person who's going to, you know, you're talking your book, you reference the, the disc profile, you
• 46:42
  know, high D high I, who's going to get out there and get after it basically versus, you know,
• 46:47
  sit somewhere and be handed leads. Yeah, no one wants to admit they're lazy. Nobody wants to come
• 46:53
  to that place. And I would just say reframe it. It just some of us need more structure that others.
• 47:01
  And some of us were really good at saying, I am an in a structuralist, you know, business. And
• 47:08
  I'm going to create my own structure. You know, all my assistants had crystal clear job
• 47:12
  descriptions and accountability that they had to get back to me. You know, with my leadership team
• 47:17
  now, that's what they have to do. They've got to give me a report once a week. And it's not because
• 47:21
  they don't trust them. It's because that accountability is something that they can then bring down
• 47:27
  to their loan officers as well. Like we've got, we've got to be the change that we want to see in
• 47:33
  other people that are around us. And so the better we get, you know, the better people that work in
• 47:40
  our existing companies are going to get. Yeah. And then you alluded to that a moment ago when
• 47:44
  you talked about minimum standards, that's definitely key. I agree. That needs to change big time.
• 47:49
  And then how are we monitoring and measuring, right? Their activities because we need to support
• 47:55
  them in that. We can't just like, you know, like it used to be back in the day. All right, good luck.
• 47:58
  Here's your cards. Go hit the bricks, pal. You know, yeah. Yeah. And I think you're going to see
• 48:04
  companies shift over a period of time. You know, we've watched companies fail in the last few
• 48:10
  months that have been around forever. And you start looking at why it's just extremely difficult
• 48:17
  to manage expenses in an industry where margins are being compressed. It's difficult because
• 48:23
  everyone wants it all. They want the best rates, the highest comp and the most support. And for a
• 48:29
  loan officer that really is not possible for a company to do, if we have to have a blend of all
• 48:36
  of them and it's no longer the company that needs to be the best, you need to be the best.
• 48:42
  Because at the end of the day, if you're the best, it doesn't matter what you have.
• 48:48
  You know, your rates might be average. Your marketing materials might be average, but if you show
• 48:55
  up and do the right thing and create the right value for your customers, you're going to continue to
• 48:59
  win. Yes. And be very intentional. Have a plan. Execute that plan and continue to refine.
• 49:07
  Every day. I mean, every day, like you have an opportunity to write a new story. And that's
• 49:13
  really where I want to touch. I would say this industry is just getting people to think differently
• 49:21
  than what we've been taught. And I'm right there with the rest of the leaders that have created some
• 49:26
  other entitlement issues that we have in our own industry. You know, we can't get frustrated
• 49:31
  with our team when we're out there recruiting other people and making promises. Big fat
• 49:37
  here in bonuses. Yeah. And everything else, like we just need to come back to a place of normalcy,
• 49:44
  which is you've got to be really good at your trade. And that trade is going out and developing new
• 49:52
  relationships with people that are going to refer business to you, adding value and doing a great
• 49:58
  job communicating throughout the process so that when the deal closes, that everyone involved in
• 50:03
  that transaction wants to do business with you again. And they want their friends, families,
• 50:08
  and co-workers to do business with you again. And we will have nothing to fear of any online
• 50:15
  loan application or anything that's out there if we continue to increase our own value proposition
• 50:22
  on a daily basis. That's the key of what kind of value are we adding. That's awesome. Well, I know
• 50:29
  we are out of time because we both have busy schedules and other things to do. So I want to close
• 50:33
  out just by saying, man, we barely even scratched the surface of this book. I wish, you know,
• 50:38
  well, here's what we'll do. Have you back in the new year and maybe do a set part two? How's that?
• 50:42
  I would love it. I would love it. And thank you for everything that you do for our industry. I
• 50:47
  mean, we do need to make an effort to increase the level of wisdom and knowledge that we have so
• 50:53
  that we can give that back. Oh, no. Thank you. It is a passion project. So as I said, I'll put
• 50:58
  links to your book and your website in the show notes. If anybody wanted to reach out to you kind
• 51:02
  of individually, any recommendations there, email or something else. Yeah, just email me. It's just
• 51:08
  K Resendez at paramountpartnersgroup.com. And I would love to be able to chat or help you in any
• 51:16
  way that I can. Yeah, definitely get the book people. It's an awesome read, especially if you've
• 51:21
  got a little bit of downtime over the holidays. It might be great for you as you're planning out
• 51:24
  2018 and building your plan and getting intentional and doing a little bit of that self-work
• 51:28
  as you said. And Jeff, just one thing, you know, on the website, I actually have every tool
• 51:35
  that a loan officer needs to build their business in 2018. So if they do have some downtime,
• 51:41
  you know, we've got business plans, weekly activity plans, and other things for them to be able
• 51:46
  to reference there. Awesome. Good. Then everybody go to the link in the show notes. And once again,
• 51:53
  Kelly, thank you so much. I know we'll connect again in the new year. Hey, if I don't, I'm
• 51:57
  wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year right now. To you too. Thanks for having me.
• 52:01
  You bet. All you listeners, same to you. Holiday wishes for you all. Thanks for tuning into
• 52:06
  this episode. As always, I appreciate you and we will see you on the next one. Bye for now.
• 52:31
  Hey, guys, what's up real quick? You've heard about the mortgage marketing pro membership before,
• 52:40
  and I just want to quickly remind you of that you're in a place in your business where you simply
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