Latest / What's Your Favorite Scary Movie | The Cozy Horror Podcast / Re-Animator feat. Cody Wimmer

Transcript

Re-Animator feat. Cody Wimmer · What's Your Favorite Scary Movie | The Cozy Horror Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Herbert West brought a lot of dead people back to life.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_03: And not one of them showed any appreciation.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_03: H.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_03: P.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_03: Lovecraft's classic tale of horror.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: Reanimated.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_05: You'll never get credit for my discovery.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_05: Who's going to believe a talking head get a job in a side chip?
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: It will scare you to pieces.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, Sydney.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Hi.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Who is this?
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_09: It's your killer host.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_09: My name is Parker, your resident horror fanatic.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_09: And I'm Cody, Bald Movie Buff.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_09: And welcome to.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_08: What's your favorite scary movie?
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_08: What's your favorite scary movie is a horror film podcast where we're on a journey to find our favorite scary movie one at a time.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_04: Whether you hate them or love them, join us and discover yours.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_09: Spoilers ahead, so plan your movie screening every weekend before the episode release.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_09: Hello everyone.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_09: Welcome to May.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_09: It's officially a new month and new horrors to be had.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_09: Here I am with one of those horrors himself.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_09: Thank you.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_09: Cody Wimmer is back on the uh same old shit that we've been doing.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_09: So uh how does it feel?
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_09: Hello, welcome.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_09: Thank you.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_10: I know at this point I think uh I'm ready to call myself friend of the pod.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_10: This is um I'm in the Three Timers Club.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_10: I would like a feed like what about like acquaintance of the pod?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_10: Okay, well, good to know how you really feel.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_09: Cody, so you have done with me what we did it chapter two and the invisible man.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_09: For anyone who did not listen to those two episodes, who are you?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_09: Oh, you want my bio?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_10: Yeah, oh, just like a cute little farm boy min-Missouri.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_10: Uh love the art of cinema and um of horror movies in particular.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_10: Um that's what uh brought Parker and I together, and now I do comedy.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_10: Well, I did comedy before.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_10: Sometimes I still do it on the internet.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_10: Honestly, it's easier to find me than ever.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_10: Um, and uh yeah, that's me.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, I personally, with my own two eyeballs, witnessed Cody on the internet telling jokes, and what a delight.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_09: So maybe at the end you'll have some stuff to share.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_09: No, not jokes, but like ways to find yourself.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_10: Sure, sure, sure, sure, true.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_09: No, no pressure.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_09: If you just want to do like a quick set, like feel free.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_09: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_09: Well, first of all, how is your May going so far?
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_09: So far, I have to say that it's much like April.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_10: Um I have to say that time is uh has always been a construct, but now even more so is an irrelevant construct.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, I really feel that like last night is right now, and right now is tomorrow, and even we're recording in April and it's May.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_10: And honestly, all of that's correct.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_10: Um yeah, it's real.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_10: I mean, time is like uh it's kind of like underwear, it's like a thing I used to pay attention to, but now I could take or leave it.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_10: It doesn't matter.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_09: Well, I like this whole thought process we have going here because like time, you know what else is a construct?
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_09: Death.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_09: Death, you nailed it right now.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_09: You know what we're talking about?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_10: The 1985 cult classic Reanimator.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_09: Oh well, I wasn't gonna talk about that, but I guess.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_09: No, I'm just kidding.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_09: No, yeah, we're talking about Reanimator, and real fast before we get going, I actually had one fact that I was going to look up and I totally forgot.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_09: I saw this in the behind the scenes that Reanimator premiered it.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_09: Can maybe that sure.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_09: Okay, well, I have an article right now, Chicago Tribune from October 13th, 1985, directly from the source, the time of arrival.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_09: Reanimator, which remains unrated for its American release, was recently awarded the pre-special at the Cannes Film Festival, citing cited for its melange of violence, humor, eroticism, and outrageousness.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_09: So it won an award at Cannes Film Festival.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_09: So okay, yeah, and you know, actually a lot of film festivals have like midnight showing, so horror is no stranger to a film festival.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_10: No, no, no.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_10: But so good for Reanimator, good for them for picking up those picking up the trophies.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_09: So again, we are in the year 1985.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_09: Reanimator was written and directed by Stuart Gordon, who has since become a master of horror.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_09: However, this was kind of his first uh, you know, jaunt in directing because he originally worked in theater and was the founder of Organic Theater Company in Chicago.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_09: Uh, have you heard of her?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_10: I have.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_10: I am now putting together that I think I am more familiar with some of his work.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_09: Well, at the Organic Theater Company in Chicago, he put on many experimental and controversial productions like Sexual Perversity in Chicago and Bleacher Bums.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_10: Bleacher Bums, whenever I've lived in Chicago for a few years.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_10: Bleacher Bums, a production of Bleacher Bums that my friend was in, was the first play I saw in Chicago.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_09: Wow.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_09: Well, Stuart Gordon Stan here, and you didn't even know it.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_09: I didn't even know it.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_09: Well, and he would eventually go on to head Reanimator the Musical.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_09: Oh, yes.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_09: God bless.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_09: Which actually, I searched high and low, and really there's just not much to find on Reanimator the Musical.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_09: There are a few short clips online.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_09: I couldn't find an album.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_09: I found an interview with the lyricist, but like I wish I had a lot more Reanimator the Musical to uh experience and share, but unfortunately I do not.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, it sounds incredible.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_09: And actually, if you want to hear more about horror musicals, you need to go sign up for our Patreon because this month, sneak peek, me, Caroline, and Ian are talking about Stage Fright, the 2014 slasher.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_09: I have never heard of her, but I'm so excited for you.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_09: Oh, Cody, too must watch it.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_09: Okay.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_09: Back to uh back to business, back to business.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_09: So yeah, check that out.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_09: Patreon.com slash scary moviepod.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_09: So Reanimator was his big transition into film, but Stuart Gordon continued to make movies, especially is considered the master of creating Lovecraft movies.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_09: He directed From Beyond in 1986, Castle Freak in 1995, and Dagon in 2001.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_09: Amazing.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_09: Yes.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_09: Now, sad news.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_09: Okay.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_09: Stuart Gordon actually died in March.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_09: Oh, damn.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_09: So a bit of a tribute here, Stuart Gordon, because personally a huge fan of Reanimator, and I'm really excited to talk about it.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_09: And um, yeah, that was a huge bummer last month, or actually it's May now, so two months ago.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_09: Two months ago.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_10: Yeah, no, that is a big bummer.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_10: Again, seen bleacher bums, sexual perversity in Chicago.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_10: Like everyone uh at college, I went to school for acting.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_10: She has a BFA, and all like all of I know, Bragg, I am so deeply in debt to play make believe.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_10: Um, but all of my friends like did monologues from sexual perversity in Chicago.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_10: So uh love that.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_10: But sad, sad that he is uh no longer with us.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_10: So yeah, we'll do this in his honor.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, uh, and actually I have a BFA in dance, so same, but I am not plugged into theater, so I've never heard of these things.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_09: So I'm glad to hear that they are actually respected and real.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_10: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_10: It's definitely a thing that I say people know about.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_09: I don't know if theater people you're a theater person and you knew right off the bat.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_10: I know.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_10: Theater people will know, but they're the only people.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_09: This show this show, this movie, when Gordon was initially like wrapping his brain tentacles around the idea.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_09: He uh originally wanted it to be original period piece as a television.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_09: Well, a bit initially for stage, but then a television series.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_09: He wanted to adapt it into, I think, like 13 episodes, and he even pitched it to PBS, and they were like, um, no.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_09: So that original script was written by a man named William Norris.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_09: And then that is not really uh close to what the product we have today is.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_09: So William Norris is a credited writer, but he just kind of adapted the original Lovecraft story straight into just like the same story on the screen.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_09: The writer who turned it into this like 80s cam masterpiece, saying it right now, uh, that we have is a man named Dennis Paoli.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_09: Classic.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_09: He collaborated with Gordon on all of the films that I mentioned above.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_09: So he um, or before above, when I'm reading writing, it is different than speaking speaking, you know.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_09: So uh he collaborated with Stuart Gordon a lot on these Lovecraft films.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_09: And then finally, this was produced by Brian Yusna.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_09: Producers, I don't always bring him up, but this guy has also gone on to be really involved in Lovecraft and Reanimator, especially.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_09: Uh-huh.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_09: He was very involved in the process of creating this movie, and it seems he even provided almost all of the funding himself.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_09: Uh so and he's become kind of a a big big wig for this specific sect of horror, and even directed Bride of Reanimator in 1990 and Beyond Reanimator in 2003.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_10: That makes some sense because also I think that the like production the the production company uh for this movie is just listed as Reanimator Productions.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_10: And I was like, did they create a company specifically to make this movie?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_10: And uh it would seem that that's what uh that's what our friend uh Brian did here.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, and at the beginning of the film, it even says a Brian used a film.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_10: Yeah, in the role of Herbert West, we have Jeffrey Combs, uh who returned for the reanimator sequels.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_10: Uh he was also in Gordon's Beyond, uh, from Beyond, I'm sorry, in Castle Freak.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_10: He also appears in The Frighteners from 1996 that uh often spoke about 1999 remake of House on Haunted Hill.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_10: And then in 2012's Would You Rather.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_10: Then we have Bruce Abbott playing Dan Cain, uh who returned for the Bride of Reanimator.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_10: Is he as much of a snack in that one as he is in this one?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_09: Am I right?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_09: I actually meant to watch Bride of Reanimator and I Lazy Bum did not.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_10: I have I haven't seen any of the sequels to this, but uh good for him.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_10: Well, it's on Shutter, so easy access.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_10: Love that.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_10: Love easy access.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_10: I take it back.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_10: Then we have Barbara Crampton who plays Megan Halsey.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_10: She's also in Gordon's From Beyond uh and Castle Freak.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_10: He's got his regular repertoire of actors there.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_10: Um, if you want to hear all the goods on uh this screen queen icon, uh I think you guys did an episode on your next, and she's in that, right?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_09: Oh yeah, we talked all about Barbara Crampton.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_09: She went from uh soap opera queen to reanimator horror icon and just kept going and then quick retirement and is back this day these days in full force.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_10: Then we have playing uh Dr.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_10: Carl Hill, um both head and body.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_10: Uh I don't know if I can confirm that.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_10: I no you can't, but at least the head uh is David uh David Gale, who also returned for Bride of Reanimator.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_10: Okay, now I do have to watch Bride of Reanimator because how the fuck is he back?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_10: Um and then uh he unfortunately died in uh 1991 dur uh due to some complications during open heart surgery, so that's um very sad.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_09: I know.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_09: Unfortunately, he could not be reanimated.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_09: Oof.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_09: That one's had enough time to sit, you know.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_09: Uh-huh.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_09: 1991.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_09: I wasn't even born yet, honey.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_09: Me neither.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_09: Don't try and put that on me.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_09: If you're curious, if you have not seen Reanimator, one, who are you and what are you doing?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_09: Two, uh, well, I'm DB says that quote, after an odd new medical student arrives on campus, rude, let him be himself, uh, a dedicated local, also rude, and his girlfriend, also rude, become involved in bizarre experiments centering around the reanimation of dead tissue.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_09: And then on Rotten Tomatoes, you might be surprised to hear that the critic score for Reanimator is 93%, and the audience score is 82%.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_09: I don't say surprise is in like you think it's bad.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_09: I mean surprise is in like this doesn't seem like the type of movie that 92% of critics would be saying is above average.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_09: It's also, you know, this is a cult movie.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_09: Originally, it was not a big box office smash, it was not like the thing it is now.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_09: And you also thinking about that with the internet and Rotten Tomatoes, like if Rotten Tomatoes had existed in 1985, maybe we'd be seeing much different scores here.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_10: For sure.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_10: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_10: That's uh a thing all the time with movies that are like now considered classics, like even like sweet, sweet uh uh Citizen Kane, which was is largely considered like the greatest American movie ever made.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_10: I'll leave that up to the listeners to decide for themselves.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_10: But I love Citizen Kane, I think that it is, but that's not that's not what I'm here to talk about.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_10: What I'm here to say is that like the press for that movie was not so great whenever it first came out, and now here we are all these years later.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_10: The same with the Wizard of Oz.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_10: People don't really care about the Wizard of Oz until it started playing on TV.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_09: Well, actually, Reanimator had a lot of success when it first came out, it was more of just the um the amount of people who were seeing it.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_09: And part of that, I'll go ahead and tell you some fun facts now before we even get into the movie.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_09: Part of that is, you know, this was kind of like a bootstrap story of like some people who wanted to create a movie and just kind of like pulled it together, and it's kind of incredible.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_09: And I think that also having all these theater people working on it, like Stuart Gordon and his wife, who also created the organic uh theater company and plays that curly red-headed doctor who tells Dan multiple times that he should give up on trying to save people.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_09: This movie is so theatrical.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_09: It is, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_09: It is very theatrical.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_09: Have you ever listened or watched interviews or something where people are like, Oh, it's so strange going from the theater to film because you have so many more subtleties and you can't be as big because you're not trying to play to people in the back because they're so close.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_09: Well, have I heard that, honey?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_09: Again, a bachelor of fine arts.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_09: I say that to say nobody told anybody else that said that.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_09: No, no, no, no, no.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_09: People are playing to the balcony in this movie.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_10: But that's one of the things that I love so much about it.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, it's what it it's just one of those things where in in any movie that could be the thing that kills it, but in this movie, it doesn't.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_09: It's it's perfect.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_09: So I don't remember what the fun fact I was gonna tell you was.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_09: Oh, it was that they got this whole movie together and then you know they played it at Can and they did all this stuff for the wide release.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_09: They they did not submit it to the MPAA because they didn't want it to be rated, because they didn't want to have to take things out of it.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_09: So they weren't allowed to advertise it in as many places.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_09: Um and they did have big theaters like the Paramountain Theater in Los Angeles, is where it premiered, but it just had to be more of a word of mouth thing because people were shocked, people loved it, but they just because they wanted to make that artistic, uh not artistic, but did not want to sacrifice some artistic uh things, right?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_09: Uh, it kind of hindered the how many people could see it.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_09: And then when it was released on video, they created an R-rated cut for video stores, and um, that obviously had things taken out.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_09: I actually watched today.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_09: There is an integral cut on this uh special edition version that was released in the uh I think early 2000s, and you can get if you buy it on Apple like I did, and it combines the unrated cut with the extra scenes from the R-rated cut, and um, you know, personally I didn't love it, but you can do that.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_09: And and I love that.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_10: I love that there are options.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_09: Well, all that just to say that is why I think this movie has taken time to kind of get where it is, right?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_09: So, anyway, anyway, anyway.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_09: It was neither of our first time watching this, correct?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_09: No.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_09: What would you say is like your general overall big picture reaction to Reanimator?
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_09: So much fun.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_10: I think that it's uh does a good job of having like good uh some like good scares and like body horror and things in there that are like sort of unnerving to watch, but also it's so funny and over the top and campy, and uh yeah, I just think that it's delightful.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_10: It's the kind of movie that I could watch over and over and over again.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, and I'm on the exact same page as you, and I might make a big claim here and understand that this claim comes from a very particular lens, and everyone listening probably knows the types of movies that I like, but I think that if somebody were to say, like, what is a horror movie?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_09: Reanimator is perfect.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, it is it is, I think, just like the total like peak.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_09: This is a horror movie right here.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_09: It's perfectly funny, but also it's gory and gross.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_09: I think a lot of the humor is so fun because it's easy to miss if you're not used to horror because there's so much like going on that you have to kind of become used to it to then be like, oh wait, what's happening is funny.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_09: Little like side comments being thrown out are funny if you can just like calm down and observe the whole scene.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_09: I think that this movie has layers much like Shrek.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_09: No, I agree with you.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_10: I my greatest regret is that uh I've never seen this movie with an audience because I mean because I've only ever watched it like from the comforts of my own home, uh, which is uh still a delight, but like can you imagine reacting with a group of people who either have seen it before or not?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_10: There's so much uh good stuff happening in and I also did a little bit of soul searching earlier, did not find the answer.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_10: Maybe we will here because there are there's certain movies that like could theoretically fall into this camp.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_10: Movies that are fun, but that aren't nearly as smart.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_10: I'm glad that it doesn't take itself too seriously.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, but I know exactly what you're talking about, where it is a balance of humor and brains, because I think that you know you could look at plenty of 80s slashers, like even down to like I'm trying to think of uh like a trashy one to say without offending people.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_09: But like uh I don't know, like any of the Friday the 13th seat, like there's there's so much fun to be had with those, but you're right that they don't have the same like passion and artistry.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, no, for sure.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_10: Well, that's the thing is you can tell that everyone that worked on Reanimator was excited to be there and working on it every day.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_10: You know what I mean?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_10: Like you can feel that in the way that the movie is made.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_09: Okay, well, listen, if we don't get into our highlights of the movie, this episode's gonna be 10 years long.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_09: That's fair.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_09: So I want to start right off with this cold open, which originally was not going to be part of the movie, but the producer Brian Yesna said that uh he thought there should be something in the film that prepared audiences for Herbert West's brand of humor and kind of the gross out that we were going to be getting.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_09: And that's when they came up with this idea to see him with his mentor, uh Hans Gruber.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_09: And uh this great scene where they barge in on him over his dead bodies and his eyes pop out and splatter all over the lady, and he has like this like big like convulsion.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_09: And then I think a pretty iconic moment.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: No, I did not.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: I gave him life.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_09: I think incredibly good at setting the scene.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_09: But something else that strikes me about this scene into the first, like, I don't know, 20 minutes of the movie, probably not even that, but before things start picking up, is that even if the horror has not begun, they're finding ways to still put all of these exciting gore effects throughout the movie, just with like the medical school.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_09: And something that I love about this movie is that even when they're doing the like setup part that can be so cumbersome in a lot of horror movies, they're still finding ways to make it fresh and exciting and fun.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_10: Oh no, it's so good.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_10: I was gonna point out a couple of things from that sort of first act.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_10: Um, first of all, just side note that the music, because I like made note of the uh like title sequence, which even that is like telling you like this is about the human body in a way that is fun and winky.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_10: Um, but the score is literally the score from Psycho.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_10: I know that they said that they like took were inspired by it, but honey.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, and actually, I was watching the behind the scenes, and Stuart Gordon was like, I felt so bad for our composer because he said he wanted to make a tribute to Psycho so that everyone would know we had a movie that was about the human condition, and then just everybody gave him so much crap about it, and I was kind of like, uh they're they're super similar.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_09: Hey Scary, play the reanimator theme.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_06: Now playing the reanimator theme composed by Richard Band.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_09: Next.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_06: You got it.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_06: Now playing the psycho theme composed by Bernard Herman.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_10: Also, it's weird to me because this and Psycho are not similar movies in any way.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_10: But okay, so a couple of things at the top.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_10: First, the first scene that we see with our protagonist who what's his name?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_09: Uh, well, I mean, depending on who you ask, but I assume you're talking about Dan Kane.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_10: Yes, I am talking about Dan.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_10: Um Heart Throb, uh shoulders for your life, honey.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_10: Um, honey, you mean huncules.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_10: I mean huncules.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_10: Uh no, but he the very first time we see him, he's trying to bring someone back to life.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_10: Yeah, we have a nice bookend here.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_10: Yeah, we do have a very nice bookend, because of course that comes exactly uh at the end, which I love.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_10: But then um also the other thing that was because I watched this in preparation for this, I watched it twice, one time just sort of casually watching it, and the next time like taking some notes and thinking with my brain.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_10: Um and uh he I like didn't put two and two together the first time that I was watching it, that he uh so he like has he hugs and kisses the uh young lady that he says that he's engaged to, but also not everyone seems to agree that they're engaged.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_10: Um and then more to that in the extended cut.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_10: He like has sex with uh that young lady and with Meg, Megan, and then uh she gets up and she's like trying to leave, and he throws the sheet over himself and like rises like a cadaver from the bed.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_10: And I was like, smart.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, as if he knew that he would soon be doing the same to real cadavers.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_09: I also love about this initial his first moment with Meg that the and this problem happens a lot for me in horror movies where you have to see so much of people in despair that you never get a good idea of what they were like beforehand.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_09: And I think that this little scene where they go from like this flirty, like, oh, stop it, stop it, to the yes, yes, yes, having sex thing.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_09: I think that that little transition is so fun and clever to kind of give us the fun and loving and flirty uh side of Meg and Dan before they have to be serious.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_10: Well, yeah, and I mean I think that that's the thing that I love about also the sequence that the I mentioned where he like chases her around while in the bed sheet.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_10: Whenever I watched it the first time, I think part of the reason I didn't pick up on it, uh like what was happening was because I was genuinely sort of unnerved for her.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_10: If I was telling someone stop it, stop it, stop it, and they kept doing the thing, I would be a little bit afraid, but at the same time foreshadowing the like trials and tribulations that were to come.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_09: So I thought that that was about to say a big contrast to the next time that she is saying no to someone in a sexual situation.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_10: Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_10: Um, so yeah, but I agree.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_10: Like I think that they this movie is very economical.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_10: Um, and the first act is like sort of the uh exemplifies that in that like all of these relationships are set up really quickly.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_10: You get to see just enough of them to uh get an idea and get on board, but also you're not bogged down by it.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_10: Because I can imagine that there's a version of this movie, maybe it's the version you watched, I don't know.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_10: But there there's like could be a version of this movie where uh the first act seems so much longer because we're just like spending so much time uh establishing all of these relationships, and instead the movie's just like uh he's fucking her, she's the daughter of this guy, this guy and this guy don't like each other, this guy wants to live with this guy, and uh the cat's dead.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, and actually something that I also love about that is it is clear that Herbert, Dan, and Megan are kind of main cast, right?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_09: But then there are also very important players who are not, such as you know, Dean Halsey and Dr.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_09: Hill.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_09: Uh that's pretty much it.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_09: Pretty small group here.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_09: But Dr.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_09: Hill in particular, you know, he isn't in a ton of the movie for the first half, and then it's like big reveal like, uh, new villain, you thought it was Herbert West.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_09: Nope, no ma'am.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_09: Uh and other movies have done this very poorly.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_09: And quick spoiler for Scream 2, if you have not watched that, first of all, get out of town, go watch it.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_09: I will be leaving town.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_09: No, just kidding.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_09: You haven't seen Scream 2?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_09: No, of course I have.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_09: Okay.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_09: Well, a big problem I have with that movie, even though it's super fun and awesome, uh, is that they have Mickey as one of the killers.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_09: And I don't know what happened if it was an issue with just the way things turned out, but he is in the first like 10 minutes of the movie and then is nowhere to be seen until he's the killer.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_09: And that's just not a very fun way to have a killer revealed to you.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_09: And so the way that they're able to have Dr.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_09: Hill present for the movie without taking up space, and then he can come in and be this big bad at the end is so fun.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_09: And even I noted this time when I watched it, because it had been a few years since I watched it.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, me too.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_09: Also, I watched it twice, so don't think that you're some like teacher's pet here.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_09: Okay.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_09: Um that I didn't even notice when I watched it this weekend, that I did notice this time, is that he has kind of sinister things about him from the beginning that you might not notice.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_09: And the first one that I noticed is right at the very beginning when Dan and Herbert are being introduced to each other.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_09: He says, Oh, Herbert's one of our new students.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_09: He's one of Hans Gruber's uh, you know, proteges.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_09: Before Herbert even says anything to Dr.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_09: Hill, because then he is pretty sassy and rude.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_09: David Gill like does some really good face acting to let us know that he is already out and something is wrong.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_09: And then that makes the accusations that Herbert then makes against him, where he's like, You've just been plagiarizing other people's work, seem a lot more real.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_09: And then later it's it is true, it is fact.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_09: He steals Herbert West's research, but I didn't pick up the first time that um it was not the way that Herbert treated him in this first scene that caused this initial disdain, but it was just the fact that he could mess up his career.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_10: No, it's it's a misdirect in sort of the best uh possible way where you think you understand um everyone's motivations at the top, but surely you don't.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_10: And that's what kept me on the edge of my seat, you know.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_09: And also I want to mention that in this first half, actually, is I think my favorite special effects.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_09: The first one being when he's got a little uh um what do you call those q-tip in someone's skull?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_09: And when he peels that guy's scalp off.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_09: And those aren't supposed to be horror moments, and I think those are the moments when I was the most squeamish, and I love them.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_10: Yeah, well, but yeah, because they seem the most real.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_10: You can kind of divorce yourself from all of the like crazy stuff that's happening in the last act of the film, um, because it's like, okay, the corpses are coming back to life, whatever.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_10: Um, I don't really feel but you know what I mean, where you can like you can at least ration like reason it out in your brain.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_10: That's never happened to you.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_10: That's I I mean it has happened to me, but um, I'm I know that I'm not everyone in those first scenes.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_10: I agree.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_10: I was very screamish.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_10: And I also like that the other thing that that scene does so well.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_10: Um, again, this is a very economical uh sort of film, is that uh it gives us Chekhov's bone saw whenever the classic trope.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_10: Classic trope.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_10: Well, whenever he's like, and then you get the bone saw and you cut around the perimeter, and we're like, okay, crazy.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_10: Later, we see West with the bone saw coming to murder the macho man that they bring back to life.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_10: Here's the deal if we got caught up on the science of this movie, we would be dead on arrival.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_09: Because I think, I think I don't know a lot about science.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_09: Again, I have a degree in modern dance, so I mean that is a science.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_09: It is a science art.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_09: Uh-huh.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_09: Uh-huh.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_09: But I did know, so I have um a large tome called The New Annotated HP Lovecraft.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_09: Uh-huh.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_09: And I was taking a little gander at the original tale because we totally blew over in the intro that this is based on the um serialized novella, Herbert West Reanimator, by HP Lovecraft.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_09: And it noted specifically in this annotated version that brain death is still a controversial topic in medicine.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_09: And some believe irreversible decay occurs just one minute after death, but others still to this day are convinced brain activity can be returned up to weeks after death.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_09: So this book was kind of positing that maybe the science of Reanimator isn't so definitely wrong.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_10: Right.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_10: Well, here's the deal two things.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_10: One, my understanding, granted, I'm not I'm not a Lovecraft scholar by any stretch of the imagination.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_10: I honestly don't know you have no bachelor's in modern dance.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_10: Yeah, I truly don't.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_10: My understanding about this story in particular was that he was writing sort of a parody of Frankenstein, and that was uh part of like that and the fact that they were paying him like five dollars a story or something was his motivating factors to to write it.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_10: I'm not saying that it's maybe not possible to uh reanimate someone.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_10: I don't know the science of that, like that all makes sense, but I'm saying that they got so worried about reanimating that like whenever they reanimate Halsey, Dean Halsey, Dean Halsey, he has like a broken tooth, all sorts of shit that that macho man did to him.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_10: He fucked him up all sorts of ways.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_10: As far as the hospital knows, he's alive, and they just put him in a straitjacket and set him in the little cushion room instead of treating him for any of the other medical things that he has going on.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_10: So I think that there's a little bit of like that, like what killed the person, and like how how does that affect um their reanimation, but also the fact that there is a severed head and a body that are acting independently of each other.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_10: I think we can agree that that's uh not science, but I love it.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_09: Well, I have so much to share with you because apparently this extended cut has just really come in clutch more than I thought it would.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_09: First of all, there is a scene after uh Dean Halsey is in his padded room where we get Dr.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_09: Hill giving us some medical exposition, including him looking at the camera and saying, Dean Halsey is clearly dead.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_09: Well, yeah.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_09: So, I mean, they knew.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, they didn't clearly we have some malpractice that is getting into the records here.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_09: So we it's not a trustworthy uh doctor here at Arc and Misk Myskatonic, is what it is called.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_09: Um the other thing I wanted to jump back to earlier when we were talking about uh the first act of this movie, because I did want to say in this R-rated cut, it seems as if they had to kind of create plots to fill out some of the time lost to some of the gore and goo.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_09: Um, including, and maybe this was originally supposed to be in the film, and then they took it out and then they put it back in for this cut.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_09: Uh, Dr.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_09: Hill, something that I like is that he is working also with the brain.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_09: You have Hill, Dr.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_09: Uh Dan Kane, and Herbert West all kind of considering these things in different terms, the same things, which I think is interesting, and we can talk about more in a minute.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_09: Um, but he is talking about controlling will and specifically his tests with lobotomizing people and how he can wants to control their will.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_09: Well, an extension of that maybe as a result of his research, in this extended cut, he can actually hypnotize people to control them.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_09: And there's a particularly spooky scene where Megan and her father, Dean Halsey, and Dr.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_09: Hill are having some sort of dinner together, and then Dan shows up to pick up Megan, and Dr.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_09: Hill is like, he shouldn't be dating her.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_09: And the uh the Dean is like, oh no, it's fine.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_09: And he gives a great little toast to Meg and says specifically she is the obsession of all who fall under her spell, and then she leaves, and then he hypnotizes Dean Halsey, saying that he needs to uh get Dan out of the medical school and away from Megan, and then that cuts uh not immediately, but pretty quickly to the scene where doc the Dean takes away his loan.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_10: That actually does kind of because that was like of my very small complaints about the movie.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_10: That was one of the like bigger plot contrivances is that Dan shows up at Dr.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_10: Dean Halsey's whatever the fuck, Halsey's office, you're both kicked out.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_10: It's like it's like what happened?
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_10: We had escalated so quickly.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_09: Well, and this strange little plot development also plays in other places.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_09: And watching the extended edition, I couldn't remember quite how it plays out originally.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_09: But when Dr.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_09: Hill comes to Herbert's lab towards the end to steal his research, he hypnotizes Herbert and says, Give me your research, and then he's like, and he gives it to him.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_10: That also makes again, because there's another small plot uh thing at the end that I was like, What?
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_10: There's the thing where like I think eventually like Halsey you know squishes Hill's head or whatever, like gouges out his eyes, and then all of the like naked zombies start like acting like oh uh and I was like, what sort of like vampire logic is happening here where they're all affected by that?
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_10: But if they're all under his weird mind control, then I guess that that makes more sense.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, and originally I thought that that was a product of his lobotomizing, but I mean that lobotomize bottom, you know what I'm saying?
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_10: Reanimator, I hardly know her.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_10: I want to know just from a like filmmaking standpoint, what they used or how they maybe it was like a post effect for that green glow-in-the-dark liquid.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_10: Wow, that shit is glowing.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_09: Well, I got the facts for you right here.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_09: That is the liquid inside of a glow stick.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_09: Oh, first time used on camera.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_10: Amazing that you know a glow stick can bring you back to life, it will bring you back on the dance floor.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_09: Just I know we had it this whole time and nobody knew.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_09: Well, I think that the one scene that we absolutely critically must hit on, because I want to get back into some character stuff here in a second because I have some series, is the scene where perhaps you might find a young Megan Halsey naked on a trolley with and Yan.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_09: I know you've heard it 10 million times if you've ever looked up anything about Reanimator, but with a head giving head here.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_10: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_10: What a what a moment.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_09: What are your thoughts on this scene?
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_09: I I hardly know what to think about it.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_10: My like my notes just say homegirl is constantly fucked over by men.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_10: Um, which is and like men control her life, and that does seem to be like a weird subtext of this movie.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_10: Well, first of all, does it pack the pass the Bechtel test?
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_10: Um, no.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_10: Uh there are, I think, two female characters in Megan, and then that doctor who tells him stop trying to bring people back.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_09: It's too late.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_09: You've done enough.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_09: You've done enough.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_09: They're dead.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_09: A good doctor knows when to quit.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_10: Right.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_10: Already like not the best for like representation of women.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_10: Yeah, like the whole movie is sort of her like having her autonomy taken over again and again.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_10: Because even at the beginning, she obviously clearly wants to be with Dan, and that's like what she wants, but her dad is controlling her and like won't let that happen.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_10: She's constantly um at the will of these men.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_10: She knows what the fuck is up.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_10: And then, yeah, by the time we get to the scene at the end, I was like, why will no one let this woman live?
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_09: Well, I have quite a few emotions mixed about Megan's character, and I agree with you on some things.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_09: I do think that she is playing the game a little bit more than you give her credit for.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_09: Like, she knows what's up with her dad, she knows what's up with Dan, and she's kind of playing the field.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_09: I think that she she's here for her benefit too.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_09: Sure.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_09: But it is it is a lot going on for her.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_09: The first time I watched this movie, I was like, oh, this is Meg's story.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_09: Like, let's get her out of here.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_09: And then tragically, she does not get out of there.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_11: Yeah.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_09: But I do have a theory here in a minute that I just I like Meg less and less because of this moment where she is being molesty raped by the decapitated head and his body.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_09: It's such a bizarre feeling because it's something where it's like it was happening, and I was like, stop.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_09: I don't what's happening?
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_09: But like I was still watching it.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_09: It's hard because it is such a fun, silly moment in this movie.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_09: But it is clearly like not a good moment, not a good look.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_09: What's nice is that this movie knows that it's a bad look.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_09: This is an evil villain doing this to her that should not be doing it.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_09: And as horrible as it is, uh, it's really fun.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_09: And I think that it is a nice set piece of the movie uh that adds to kind of the squeamish, uh, takes the squeamishness and the party horror movie to a whole nother level.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_09: If you're having a slumber party, this is the scene that's gonna get them.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_10: Yeah, no, I mean, I would agree with you about like her autonomy.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_10: She's very smart.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_10: There's like no doubt about that.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_10: But yeah, by this point, that image gross and obviously would have been gross in 1985, but is like so much like worse uh in the year of our Lord 2020, where you know, we are rightfully um more attuned to and more aware of these things.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_10: I would say uh that's a thing, a major reason that I like have trouble watching The Evil Dead, the original one.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_10: There's a obviously a different sensibility about these things in the 1980s than we have now.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_10: And yeah, looking back on it, it's extra bad, and we hate him extra much because otherwise, in this movie, he's just a bad guy who just wants to take credit for someone else's work, which is already bad.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, and actually, in interviews with Barbara.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_09: Crampton.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_09: Uh she talked about this scene in there.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_09: There was a making of uh feature on the uh DVD that was called because I loved the name Reanimator Resurrectus.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_09: How hot is that?
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_09: Something.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think even then we knew this was the scene.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: This was the scene that people were gonna remember.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: That was for me the most difficult scene.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm strapped down, I'm naked, there's a gory head in front of me.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, I was wondering, am I going too far?
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: Should I be doing something like this?
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: There were something that's like I wanted to be able to commit to that moment.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: I could commit to another moment in that film.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought, okay, what the hell?
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: I cleared the set, we went for it.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it sort of broke some barriers of what was acceptable to film.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_10: And so good for her.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_10: I I can't I cannot deny that it's memorable.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_10: I don't know that the movie would be worse without it.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_09: Oh, I think this movie would take a hit without that scene in it.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_09: But for this movie to reach full camp like it does, that had to go over the top the way that it did.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_10: Yeah, I mean, I'm not-I guess I'm not mad that it did.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_10: I'm just saying that, like, thinking about it now, if it was taken out, I would be like, okay.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_10: I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I don't know that I would miss it.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_10: But agree to disagree, my fact that it's there, I'm also not mad about.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_09: Quickly, I want to touch on some character things.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_09: We've got our boy Herbert and our boy Dan.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_09: If you're of academic mind, you might describe them as foils.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_09: Uh-huh.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_09: And uh, I like how the way they are introduced in even their first two scenes, the cold open and then Dan's first thing, is that you've got the obsessive scientist who is driven by his like desire to achieve, and then you've got the kind doctor who's a little more driven by emotion.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_09: They have joined forces, created this whole conundrum, this whole big thing.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_09: And in the end, who is more dangerous?
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_09: You know, Herbert West creating this serum that could potentially be a good thing.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_09: You know, they say throughout the movie, like, if this were to happen, this would be the greatest achievement in medicine.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_09: Uh, or you have uh Dan, who I think it is no accident that the movie ends with him attempting to reanimate his girlfriend Megan and her scream being the final thing.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_09: You know, which is the bigger sin, the bigger moral downfall here.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_10: The thing is that they sort of come at the same thing but from two different places, where um Wes seems to come at it from the head and Dan seems to come at it from the heart.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_10: Dan gets on board pretty quickly with this whole reanimating scheme.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_10: Like in that scene where they are, where they eventually reanimate the macho man, which is just what I call that very muscular man that they reanimate first.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_10: And why would they choose that muscly slab out of everyone?
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_09: Because he was the only one not covered in a trash bag.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_09: The only one in a cloth.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_09: Why don't we pick the strongest man ever to reanimate after we've seen how it affects a cat?
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_10: But they do that, and in that scene, um, you see West being very methodical, wanting to take very good notes, wanting to make sure that honestly the science is done correctly so that he's not taken to be a quack.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_10: You know what I mean?
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_10: And then uh you see Dan fully freaking the fuck out about it.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_10: Different approaches to solving ultimately the same problem.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, and I like that that also kind of leads into uh something that I don't remember if it's addressed in the movie or not.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_09: It's for sure addressed in the HP Lovecraft story, which I think will round out the episode with a little HP Lovecraft at the end.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_09: For now, we're just focused on the movie.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_09: But uh, there is a lot of discussion about the soul, and it seems that Dan believes that there is some sort of soul and that that you know affects the afterlife.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_09: It's in the story that he says, like, if we're able to bring someone back, I'll be able to ask him.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_09: Dan is not actually a character in the story, but the story is told from a narrate, uh, a narrator talking about his friend Herbert West.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_09: So the narrator becomes Dan Cain in the movie.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_09: And he talks about how if they're able to bring someone back, he'll be able to ask him questions about the afterlife.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_09: Whereas Herbert West specifically talks about how there is no soul and all existence is tissue, and he is reanimating the tissue, which is the brain, uh, and the tissue to animate the activity of the body.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_09: And so I think that these two different approaches to afterlife and how afterlife affects this like idea of what maybe like a zombie is, right?
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_09: Uh, I think that's a really interesting idea that also can carry over to other movies.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_09: And since I already spoiled it, I was looking at a bit of a timeline that was also aided by the annotated book that I was reading.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_09: Prior to Mary Shelley's original novel, Frankenstein, there had been work from scientists in Italy and Germany that had been done on the possibilities of resurrecting the dead.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_09: Obviously, these were inspirations for Frankenstein, which is an inspiration for Reanimator, right?
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_09: The story by HP Lovecraft.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_09: Obviously, reanimator that that story was written in the 1920s, Reanimator the movie is 1980s.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_09: So big difference there.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_09: You know, Reanimator the story is very much right after Frankenstein.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_09: So you got to think back a little bit.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_09: And then I think that's an interesting timeline for then considering it uh with the zombie story, because zombies are obviously tied to not quite the science of the Frankenstein story, but kind of the result of this monster coming back from the life and the idea of the dead and consciousness, and now this idea and reanimator of the soul versus the body.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_10: Yeah, and yeah, what is what is consciousness?
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_10: I mean, do you want to know the story that this reminded me the most of?
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_09: Tell me.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_10: Uh Pet Cemetery.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_10: It's like very much that.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_10: Um, very much this idea that like you can bring something back, but it may not be what it was before it left.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_10: You know what I mean?
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_10: Like the cat is very specific because uh in Pet Cemetery there is a cat.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_10: Um, but then also even the like killing and bringing back your like loved one romantic partner at the end, all of that was very um sort of similar, um, in a way that I'm not mad at.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_10: I'm just like noting noting it.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_10: Um, but also, yeah, this I reanimator definitely comes at it from a more almost scientific perspective.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_10: It makes you wonder like, just because you could reanimate a corpse doesn't mean that you're going to bring back the consciousness that made someone themselves.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_09: Yes, you might even say sometimes dead is better.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_09: Better, yeah.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_09: Love everything we've said.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_09: I was stewing in my brain while I was watching this movie a bit of a theory.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_09: Okay.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_09: Now, I will say that I came up with this theory, and then I Googled it.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_09: And obviously, I'm not the first person to come up with this theory because who is?
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_09: I don't know who the first person was.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_09: Well, no one.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_09: Nobody's the first person to do anything, and if you think you are, you're wrong.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_09: Okay.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_09: But I will say that I was not seeing a lot of the same evidence that I had.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_09: So I'll uh link some things in the show notes that you can go look at for further reading.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_09: There is specifically an article uh called Together We Are Providence.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_09: It is an essay by someone with a blog named Dr.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_09: Worm, and I loved.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_09: And he also references a book that I then looked at and kind of pulled from as well, but also he references in his uh called Monsters in the Closet: Homosexuality in the Horror Film by Harry M.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_09: Binshoff.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_09: Okay, you had me at homosexuals.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_09: So, yes, as you might think, me a gay, I am about to give you a queer theory, which honestly, right now in quarantine, she's thirsty, and pretty much any movie I watch that has a man in it is a gay movie because suddenly I'm watching it without clothes and everything's gayer than yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_09: Same, I mean same.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_09: I was watching this special features documentary, Resurrectus, very queer title, I must say.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_09: Uh, and it got my cogs turning a little bit.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_09: Stuart Gordon said that Herbert is trying to show Dan that they can be gods, that they can create life without a woman.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_09: Sure.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_09: This is something that also Harry Binshaw notes in his book, Monsters in the Closet, when he's talking about Frankenstein.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_09: He says the most obviously queer horrors are those wherein the homosexual pair set out to procreate without the aid of woman.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_09: The act of procreation, read as sex, thus makes this particular formula spectacularly queer.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_09: In the documentary, Gordon is not presenting this as a queer theory.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_09: He specifically says that it is a very masturbatory thing to want to create your own life.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_09: And I then throw back at Stuart Gordon, who R A P, I'm sorry you cannot throw it back at me again.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_09: I throw back at him.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_09: What is more gay than two men masturbating together?
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_09: That's step one.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_10: Step one, two dudes have to jerk it together.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_09: Okay, on to step two.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_09: If the masturbatory thing is creating life without woman, then Herbert and Dan are getting down to business.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_09: So birth and creation are obviously indelibly linked to womanhood.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_09: Confirm or deny.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_10: Confirm.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_09: This serves, in my opinion, to prove both the envy that Herbert has to create what he naturally cannot, and to link both him and Dan to the feminine, where if you've done any sort of gender or uh sexuality studies, uh it is thought that from the culturally ingrained, you know, ideas that we have been raised in here in America, to be homosexual or queer is to take on, if you're male, traits of femininity, or if you're female and queer traits of masculinity that are not usually acceptable.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_09: So in this documentary, Barbara Crampton also counters Stuart Gordon saying that there is a love triangle between her, Dan Cain, and Herbert West, where Herbert West and Megan are both trying to gun for Dan Cain's attention.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_09: Again, this is not presented as queer, but obviously I was like, love triangle.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_09: Hello.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_09: She's trying to convince Dan Cain that what he's searching for, creation of life, can be achieved naturally with her, obviously.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_09: Okay.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_09: Uh, I think that the idea of a girlfriend and perhaps a gay friend gunning for their straight friend's affection is a pretty common trope that you might see in like a rom-com or on TV or something like that.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_09: Sure.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_09: But to take it even further, uh Ben Schoff in his Monsters in the Closet book says, and he's talking specifically about Frankenstein and uh Dr.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_09: Pretorius and Bride of Frankenstein, who is a very famously queer-coded character in cinema.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_09: He says the monstrously queer deviation of the gothic villain is also clearly marked within the text by the presence of an assertively normal heterosexual couple who serve as the center of a naturalized and normative heterosexual equilibrium, which the queer force disrupts.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_09: Sure.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_09: And so I thought specifically, if we're looking again at horror and ways that this has been represented and satirized specifically, think about Rocky Horror Picture Show.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_09: You have Frank and Furter, who is offset by Brad and Janet, who are very square, very uh straight.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_09: And then there's that sequence where Brad and Janet are in their separate bedrooms, they think they're about to have sex with each other, and both of them discover that it's Frank and Furter.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, Brad, you're so strong and protective.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm afraid so, Brad.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_02: But isn't it nice to be you?
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_02: What have you done with Janet?
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_02: Why do you think I should?
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_02: You tricked me.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't have.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_02: Janet's gonna be asleep.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_02: You want her to see you like this?
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like this! Like this! It's your fault! You're a blame! I thought it was the real thing! Come on, Brad, admit it.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_02: You liked it, didn't you?
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_02: There's no crime in giving yourself over to pleasure.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you promise you won't tell.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_02: On my mother's grail.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_09: So I think that that scene really strongly like over the top portrays kind of what I'm talking about here with Megan and Herbert.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_09: Sure.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_09: And how they're both gunning for their the affection of Dan.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_09: Now, here is my fun evidence.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_09: Some of it's serious, but some of it less so.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_09: Okay, I can't wait for this.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_09: You may have remembered Resurrectus as the um documentary uses that word that I'm now obsessed with.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_09: Reanimation of the cat Rufus.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_09: Yep, the pussy attack.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_09: Yes.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_09: So this is the first major event, horror event of the core film.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_09: Dan and Herbert being attacked by, like you just said, a pussy cat.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_09: They're even interrupted while they are working with this cat by Megan, who is very off put, and uh Herbert is very unhappy that she has interrupted them.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_09: But we see in this sequence the destruction of the pussy.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_09: That is my first one.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_09: My second one is that the imagery of the syringe and the injection is very phallic.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_09: And you might notice that Herbert only reanimates men in this film.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_09: That is true.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_09: Yes, it is in fact.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_09: And then my final piece of evidence, which this one I did a little research, and it you may think, Parker, that is a reach.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_09: And I will respond with, I have long arms, so yeah.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_09: So Dr.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_09: Hill's method of evil is lobotomy.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_09: In the 40s and 50s, there was a um neurologist by the name of Walter Freeman who resided in Pennsylvania, which is very close to Massachusetts, where Arkham Mskatonic is, who is practicing lobotomy as a method of conversion therapy.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_09: And who do we see at the end of this movie?
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_09: Uh Dr.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_09: Hill attempting to lobotomize Herbert West.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_09: Uh-huh.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_09: David Gale, who plays Dr.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_09: Hill, because we're not given an age for Dr.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_09: Hill, but if we assume that he's about the same age as David Gale, the actor who portrayed him, he was born in 1936.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_09: So you must assume that if this is being uh researched, this conversion lobotomization in the 40s and 50s, this has to be the same time that Dr.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_09: Hill is getting his medical training.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_09: Those are the facts.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_09: They cannot be denied.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_09: Herbert West, gay.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_09: Dan, what a lovely image of maybe a bi or pan or some sort of other sexuality man.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_09: And then you may be thinking, well, in the end he chooses Barbara Crampton.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_09: I might say no.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_09: First of all, Herbert West is destroyed by some sort of very phallic tentacle coming out of a dead body that sucks him into the void.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_09: And there's that beautiful image of the lover's hands reaching for each other, but they can't quite make it.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_09: And then Barbara Crampton also dies.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_09: In Monsters in the Closet, uh Harry Binshoff says that by the end of the film, part of the queer horror film is that the couple, the heterosexual couple, goes through their queer experience and by the end comes out back into their normal life.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_09: That does not happen in this film.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_09: Fair.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_10: Is it are you are you finished presenting your case?
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_09: Yes, Reanimator is a queer film.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_09: It is very gay.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_09: It is done.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_09: Sign sealed delivered.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_09: Facts.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_09: The news is not fake here.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_10: As a bisexual man myself, I was like, I wish these three would have a threesome.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_10: They were having a metaphorical threesome of the brain.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_10: But I would like to see it actually.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_10: My my problem becomes Frankenstein and Bride of Frankenstein were directed by a gay man.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_10: Were any of the uh creative team on this project queer?
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_10: I guess I just don't want to give queer kudos to anyone to a straight person.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_09: Well, you don't have to make something intentionally queer for it to then be queer.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_10: Sure, for a queer audience to enjoy it.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_10: Oh, there without a doubt, I do understand that too.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_09: Well, I might pause it to you.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_09: You may not agree, but a theory is a theory for a reason and not fact.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_09: But also, I would like to now take a jaunt over to take a peek at HP Lovecraft and then revisit this.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_09: Great.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_09: We have briefly mentioned that this film, Reanimator, is based off of the HP Lovecraft tale, Herbert West Reanimator.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_09: And it is a little bit of a loose basis because this film was updated to the 80s and created into a much more campy and humorous and over-the-top gore fest than that original story.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_09: Is the original story takes place in the 1920s?
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_09: It concerns the same thing about a doctor discovering a reagent that brings the dead back from the grave.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_09: Uh, but you know, it's much more reserved in the way that you might expect a story from the 1920s is six short parts, and you're getting little like zingers at the end where an exciting thing happens, cliffhanger, and then you have the next one the next week in a magazine that he's releasing it in.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_09: But it is not nearly the same thing, and it actually takes place over decades.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_09: So, I mean, this story, you know, I get again, I said loosely based.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_09: If we're thinking about HP Lovecraft, I would say some buzzwords that you might think about.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_09: And there's actually a very good podcast episode from Nightmare University, hosted by Dr.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_09: Rebecca McKindry, who I'm a huge fan of.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_09: So go take a peek at that.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_09: And they also talk about uh her guest on that episode is an actor from Reanimator the musical.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_09: So if you want to hear more about that musical that I could not provide you, go check that out.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_09: When you think about what defines a Lovecraftian story, a lot of people might think aquatic tentacle monsters.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_09: And that's true sometimes.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_09: Call of Cthulhu is his most famous story, I would say.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_09: But it involves a lot of other things, like um other worlds and kind of a large hierarchy of gods.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_09: And I actually love that part about it, how fate is determined no matter what we do.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_09: And it's never, I say this like larger power, you might be thinking, like, oh Jesus, yeah, hope.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_09: No, it is very much like life is meaningless because our lives are controlled by this huge, like, pantheon of gods.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_09: I think that is spooky and awful, but I like it.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_09: And then another thing would be uh reality, what is reality, and people slipping slowly into insanity.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_09: Those are kind of the tropes of a Lovecraftian story.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_09: And we've mentioned a couple of popular ones at the top of the episode that have been made into movies, but also they don't have to be written by Lovecraft to be Lovecraftian.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_09: We mentioned the evil dead that features a book called The Necronomicon, which is a Lovecraftian thing.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_09: Even Batman Arkham is a Lovecraftian setting uh that he created.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_09: This story, Herbert West Reanimator, takes place in Arkham, Massachusetts at the Miskatonic University.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_09: Alien is very Lovecraftian, and even the um artist, um H.R.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_09: Geiger, who we talked about in our Alien episode, has art in a series called Necronomicon, and he based a lot of his work on um HP Lovecraft.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_09: And the thing is very Lovecraftian.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_09: And even just, you know, in March of this year, there's Color Out of Space came out, which is a Lovecraft story.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_09: So Lovecraft has always been very like uh saturated into pop culture, especially if you play video games or a lot of role-playing games and Dungeons and Dragons, World of Warcraft.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_09: It's all borrowing from Lovecraft in ways that even if you're not familiar with Lovecraft, you will be if you do some research and realize, oh, I've been consuming Lovecraft my whole life and I didn't even know it.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_10: Right.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_09: He is not without fault.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_10: No, no, no, no.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_09: You might recall on Caroline and my episode covering Rosemary's Baby, we had a little discussion about Roman Polanski and how how you might go about enjoying somebody's work when you know that that person is not necessarily a good person.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_09: We came to no conclusions, but something is different in the case of Roman Polanski where you don't necessarily see what is wrong with Roman Polanski in Roman Polanski's work.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_09: We just know that outside of his work, he's not a good guy.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_09: Now, HP Lovecraft is very like on the books, very racist, xenophobic, misogynist.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_09: He has in his stories a ton of problematic language described.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_09: People who are not white.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_10: Even white people.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_10: My understanding is that he likes if you weren't his type of white, he was not for you.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_09: Yes, he's very anti-Semitic, too.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_09: People might say, like, oh, it's the 1920s, you know, everyone was racist.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_09: Well, he was above and beyond.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_09: He was going out of his way to be racist and include that in his work, uh, very elitist in a way that is not chill and that we do not agree with here on what's your favorite scary movie.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_09: So that's what makes it hard to enjoy reading Lovecraft is that that is so much a piece and part of what he writes.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_09: And going back to him being a misogynist, none of his works include any uh substantial female presence.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_09: They're all about men and the issues of men.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_10: Uh, one of my favorite characters in the movie is the security guard who hangs out outside the morgue.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_10: Because again, we also we have one woman and more we have one like speaking role for a person of color or black person in this whole movie, and it's the security guard, which is problematic in its own right, but that character is very funny, both whenever he's like reading his porno mag and then says break time.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_10: Oh, yeah, very funny, and then it's funny and also like oh right, and then also whenever like the shit's going down and he like comes and sees and he's like, Nope.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_10: He like literally says nothing and just goes away.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_10: He's perfect.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_10: Um, anyway, so I just wanted to do justice for him because Lovecraft would never have allowed that.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, and I was actually that's where I was headed, was I was going to say that this movie was made in 1980, so yes, the diversity is still not up to snuff.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_09: No, but I think having an African-American man and then adding in a whole female role in this movie that is pivotal.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_09: This movie does not function on Megan, but she is a huge function of the movie.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_09: I think that those are really interesting and great acts of rebellion against HP Lovecraft's original kind of realm of moral and thought.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, I agree.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_09: So I think that is a great way to take a problematic work and make it into something more substantial.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_09: And that's why I think that enjoying Lovecraft can be done so richly outside of his written work.
• 1:08:23
  SPEAKER_09: I don't think you shouldn't read his written work.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_09: I've actually enjoyed reading some of his written work, but it is it's sometimes it's a tough sell getting past some of that in the written work.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_09: But that I I have found consuming HP Lovecraft and other forms that were not created by HP Lovecraft can be very um enriching.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_10: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_10: He he definitely uh again, my limited understanding and knowledge of his uh work is that he definitely created a style that people from now various backgrounds and cultures and things have been able to um find ways into and make their own.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_10: And I think that that's really great.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_09: Now, hey Cody.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_09: Yes, I'm about to ask you about the toughest question you've ever been asked.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_09: Okay.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_09: What would you say from Reanimator is the most memorable murder?
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_10: The most memorable murder, hands down for me, is the shovel through the neck.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_10: Ooh, so you would say Dr.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_10: Hill Part One.
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_10: Dr.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_10: Hill Part One.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_10: Uh, because like hitting him overhead the head with the shovel, I was like, okay, they build to it.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_10: It's pretty funny, but like, you know, we see it coming, and then he immediately like goes in and fucking gets him in the jugular and then somehow uses that shovel to like break his spine.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_10: It's pretty perfect.
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_09: And as I said earlier, the effects in this movie are incredible.
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_10: They're great.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_10: Here's that's the thing that I was thinking watching it too was that like there are movies like this that were made at that time in the 1980s where practical effects were really great, but like if this movie was made today, it would look too real.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_10: I don't know, it would not work for me.
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_09: I was about to say 2020 could never because this movie would look like a video game.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, it would be horrible.
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_09: And I love every single effect in this movie, it's so disgusting and gushy and makes me want to completely die.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, no, it's it's great.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_09: I would say controversial, almost in line with you, but I would say Dr.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_09: Hill Part two being squished, and then not that, but the throne against a wall and splatting against the paint.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, incredible.
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_09: I thought that was so fun.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_09: I loved that.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_09: If you were going to take a scary scale, one to five and put reanimator on it, where would it rank?
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_10: I would give it in terms of scariness, three three and a half vials of green liquid.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_09: Ooh, I like that creativity.
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_09: I would definitely give it a two.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_09: I don't think it's scary, but I think you definitely have to have a strong stomach going in.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, I feel you.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_09: I was being generous because I like it.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_09: Would you give Reanimator a smash or a slash?
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_09: Smash.
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_09: I would give Reanimator the hardest smash of my life.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_09: I might would even take my reanimated head and smash Reanimator real hard.
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_10: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_10: No, I've been so grateful that I uh, because again, I hadn't watched this movie since like high school.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_10: It's probably been 10 years since I saw this movie, and now I'm like, uh, so glad that it's a part of my life again.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_09: I do want to ask you a quick question that is not part of the usual wrap-up.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_09: Uh-huh.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_09: Now imagine that this is consensual.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_09: Okay.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_09: If you could have a reanimated head just at hand to perform whatever duties you might ask it to perform.
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_09: Okay.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_09: Smash or sm smash or pass.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_09: No, no, no, no.
• 1:11:59
  SPEAKER_10: Well, no.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_10: But it is animated.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_10: Like it is reanimated.
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_09: It has a personality.
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_09: And you you have both specifically discussed this beforehand and agreed that you would both, you know, be into it.
• 1:12:13
  SPEAKER_10: No.
• 1:12:13
  SPEAKER_10: I think my answer is no, but I'm like also like, I don't know, was this like my partner before the war or something?
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_09: Don't get that far into it.
• 1:12:23
  SPEAKER_09: Um normally it's a no, but for me in quarantine, take what you can get.
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_09: Bring it on the head.
• 1:12:29
  SPEAKER_10: Sure, sure, sure.
• 1:12:30
  SPEAKER_10: I, you know what, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna argue with you.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_09: Cody, you've said before that your favorite movie is Halloween.
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_09: With me, you have covered it chapter two, The Invisible Man, and now Reanimator.
• 1:12:45
  SPEAKER_09: Uh-huh.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_09: Halloween never existed.
• 1:12:48
  SPEAKER_09: We don't know her.
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_09: Of the three, what would you say is your favorite scary movie?
• 1:12:53
  SPEAKER_10: Of the three, reanimator, hands down.
• 1:12:56
  SPEAKER_10: Because it takes, I mean, I know we're kind of pretending like Halloween doesn't exist, but one of the things I love about Halloween is that it does feel like um just like a group of buddies making a thing, and that's part of what I love about it.
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_10: And that's very much uh the vibe here as well, um, as we mentioned.
• 1:13:15
  SPEAKER_10: So yeah, I love that.
• 1:13:16
  SPEAKER_10: I love obviously I'm a fan of comedy.
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_10: I feel like if I were to make a horror movie, what I would, I mean, what I would probably set out to make is something more like The Invisible Man, where I'm like, I have a lot of thoughts, but then what I would end up making is Reanimator because I can't help but add as many jokes as I can.
• 1:13:34
  SPEAKER_09: I bet you're dying to know what my favorite scary movie is.
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_10: I am.
• 1:13:38
  SPEAKER_09: Of the season two offerings, I have been on a hard scream for roll.
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_09: But I must inform you today that my favorite scary movie is Reanimator.
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_09: Oh, look at us.
• 1:13:52
  SPEAKER_09: This movie slapped.
• 1:13:54
  SPEAKER_09: It slaps, it's so good.
• 1:13:56
  SPEAKER_09: So it is a bit of a stacked month here.
• 1:13:58
  SPEAKER_09: I've been so excited planning May.
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_09: Next week, Caroline and Ian will be back for a discussion of It Follows.
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_09: I love It Follows.
• 1:14:08
  SPEAKER_10: I mean, I mean, who knows what that movie will be like?
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_10: Tune in to find out.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_09: While you are waiting for Caroline and Ian's spooky return next week, you can head on over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a rating and a review.
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_09: That would be so wonderful for getting the word out on this bad boy.
• 1:14:29
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, screen review her.
• 1:14:31
  SPEAKER_09: Loan Girl left a five-star review and said, trick?
• 1:14:35
  SPEAKER_09: No, definitely a treat.
• 1:14:38
  SPEAKER_09: She says, I listen to a lot of podcasts, mostly ones focusing on the horror genre, and I've been trying to find new ones to get through these crazy times as if they aren't enough horrors.
• 1:14:51
  SPEAKER_09: She is here.
• 1:14:54
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 1:14:54
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 1:14:55
  SPEAKER_09: Starting with one of my favorite Halloween Sawin movies, Trick or Treat.
• 1:15:01
  SPEAKER_09: Love the banter and thought-provoking introspection.
• 1:15:04
  SPEAKER_09: Can't wait to work my way through the catalog.
• 1:15:07
  SPEAKER_09: Oh.
• 1:15:09
  SPEAKER_09: Yes.
• 1:15:09
  SPEAKER_09: So if you also want to listen to our trick-or-treat episode, I also love that movie and our episode on it.
• 1:15:15
  SPEAKER_09: And you can listen to the rest of the catalog just like Loan Girl.
• 1:15:18
  SPEAKER_09: Cody, where can people find you on the internet for more of those funny comedy offerings?
• 1:15:25
  SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
• 1:15:26
  SPEAKER_10: You can find me at Cody underscore Wimmer.
• 1:15:29
  SPEAKER_10: So C O D Y underscore W-I-M-M, as in Mary, E-R, um, on both you know Instagram and Twitter.
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_10: I do funny things and I'm just like a little baby slut.
• 1:15:43
  SPEAKER_09: Oh, well, I love following you on Twitter, and sometimes they even go on and heckle you.
• 1:15:48
  SPEAKER_09: So you do.
• 1:15:49
  SPEAKER_09: So if people want to see that, some live interaction, then head over there.
• 1:15:54
  SPEAKER_09: And also, you might even be posting about times you can see Cody perform on the internet during quarantine, which is a pleasure.
• 1:16:02
  SPEAKER_09: My name is Parker Heron, and you can find me on Instagram, Twitter, Letterboxd, and the slasher app at Parker Delray.
• 1:16:08
  SPEAKER_09: And if you want to find more of what's your favorite scary movie, you can find us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at ScaryMoviePod.
• 1:16:15
  SPEAKER_09: You can find us on Patreon, where for just five dollars a month, you can hear me, Caroline, and Ian break down even more horror movies, including this month, voted by the patrons themselves.
• 1:16:28
  SPEAKER_09: Hush.
• 1:16:29
  SPEAKER_09: Find us on our website at scary moviepod.com for our calendar and um, you know, reviews.
• 1:16:35
  SPEAKER_09: There's not a lot coming out right now, so not many.
• 1:16:38
  SPEAKER_09: And uh you can send us any feedback or thoughts at ScarymoviePod at gmail.com.
• 1:16:43
  SPEAKER_09: Bye, Cody.
• 1:16:44
  SPEAKER_09: Bye bye.