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Secret Lives of Mormon Wives · To All the Men I've Tolerated Before

• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Many tolerators. This is to al the men I've tolerated before.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: With Nathley Katona, your weekly look at everyday misogyny. Today,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Christiana from our bucket List episode on the men of
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Gray's Anatomy is back because she is an expert on
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: the secret lives of Mormon wives.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: I'm going to put it on my resume.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Please do. And I have avoided talking about the secret
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: lives of Mormon wives on this podcast, and then this season,
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: I was like, they proved me right. Misogyny rings on
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: that show wherever they and everyone kept telling me it
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: was so empowering as a franchise. But we're gonna talk
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: about it. We're gonna talk about season four and the
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: aftermath and everything that came after it. Thanks for being here, Christiana.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, thank you. I felt like the bat
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: signal went up and I got the call, and I
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: feel so privileged because not only did you read my
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: two articles on the topic, but then you sent me
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: voice memos and I just felt so seen.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: I know, I between the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives,
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: the like social media takedown of Chapel Roan and there
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: was something else where. I was just like screaming into
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: my phone. I was like, why is everything so bad
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: the week?
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we should just get in. As you know,
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: you have been very patient with me because every season
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: of the show I have to say aloud to the
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: people who love it, like, yes, I'm watching it. I
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: hate being felt like left out of things, so I
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: watch it, but I hate the show and I believe
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: that it should not exist.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: I agree. I mean, I think that's the way the
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: show is going. I mean, so I want to circle back.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: You said people say it's empowering. I need to hear
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: more about that, because I have not watched it from
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: that Lens.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: I think, thank god, I think, and maybe it's the
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: terminology that they themselves on the show use where they're like,
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: we're just some girl bosses who welped up feminist one
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: day and we decided that we're in charge of Mormonism.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, no, yes.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: I think, yeah, that is the language that they use.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: I I think maybe like the empowering part, quote unquote,
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: if I'm going into that, Lens would be like, hey,
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: you girls are doing it. You're you're supporting your house
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: husbands and your many children, and way to go. We
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: want you to. It's like I want what they want
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: for themselves. Sometimes, like when I'm watching a reality TV show,
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: I'm like I get to a point where I'm like,
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: whatever Mora wants, I want more to get it, you know,
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: like I want I'm rooting for their hopes and dreams,
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: and so in that lens, I'm like, yeah, Whitney, get
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: on Broadway. I want that for you. That's I guess empowering.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: But from a religious patriarchal standpoint, I've not watched it
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: under that lens of like you're gonna smash it well.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: And I feel like a lot of the pop culture,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: like talking heads around the show are also like it's
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: like how we talk about not just mom talk, but
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: like tradwife TikTok in general, where it's like, well, these
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: women do become the breadwinners of their home and then
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: that in itself is a place of power in their home.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: And I'm like not always yeah, And i feel like
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: every season I see glimmers of these women and I'm like, Okay,
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: you're almost with me, you almost got me. The thing
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: that I always compare it to is the Real Housewives franchise,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: which is a toxic franchise about women. But I do
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: find it very empowering because I know that every real
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: housewife goes on Real Housewives to eventually divorce the husband
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: that they're sick of. I already know who's getting divorced
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: out of Rhode Island Housewives. Okay, you say Ashley, I
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: it is Ashley. I.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: I want that for her.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: I tried to rein it in when I'm like, I
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: hate the Mormon Wives because people are like, bamly they're
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: just girls who are trying their best to create their
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: own destiny. Isn't that what you're doing? And I'm like, yeah,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: but I'm doing it without trying to make people feel
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: like the way to paradise is making a man a
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: milkshake every day at four thirty pm.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yes, I think. I think all of this ties
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: into all of the issues I had this season for
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: because I was in it and the like it's my
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: guilty pleasure. My group texts do not watch this show,
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: but they come to me for the information about it
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: because I'm like, hey, girls, I'm starting this season. I
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: will keep you updated whether you want me to or not. Like,
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: so I it is my guilty pleasure, and this season
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: I have to feel like, oh, this is what the
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: conservatives feel like when their show turns too woke. I
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: feel like my show turned too conservative. And yes, it's
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: a religious show entitled Mormon Wives, but I was like, wait,
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: oh wait, we're all conservative here, and I feel like
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: I got dukes well.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: And I feel like if it wasn't a Hulu show
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: and if the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City did
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: not exist, I would have been, Oh, this is one
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: of the most fun trash TV series I've ever seen,
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: because I still watch the Sister Wives. I love a
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: trashy TLC polygamy looking for sister wife show, and I've
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: been I've been like inundated with Mormon culture since I
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: was a teen because my mom, instead of supervising what
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: I would watch on TV, was like, I would like
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: you to watch this on TV with me. And we
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: were big fans of Big Love.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I love that.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Poke Mormon went to that. I it's starting
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: to make me feel like the Secret Lives Wives are
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: making me prejudice against content that I've always consumed.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: Oh that's yeah, that's a good way of putting it. Yes,
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Because I left the season feeling like my contract with
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: Reality TV had been completely broken.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: And we should get to we should get financial compensation.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: I am do some compensation for my lost because I
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: grew up watching Real World, like that was my jam.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: I watched season one of Bachelorette in my dorm room.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: One of my college classmates was on one season like
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: we Yeah, I have watched Reality TV and I watch
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: it like tongue in cheek satire or you know, look
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: into life I don't live, and and this season I
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: just was like, oh, I have to stop now in
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: some capacity, like it started to feel just wrong, and
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: that what I thought I signed up for I was
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: unaware of.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I had to stop with a Bachelorette, and apparently
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: I stopped right before they actually couldn't control anymore how
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: bad the men were going to treat women on the show.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: They just yeah, I'm sure it was COVID budget issues.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: They were like background checks, never heard of them. We
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: used to do psyche bells, not anymore. Like because people
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: are saying that that's what should have happened with Taylor
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: Frankie Paul, that the Bachelor should have vetted her more,
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: and that people should be going to jail to cast
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: her anyways, and I was like, no, no one does
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: background checks and reality TV anymore because they watched Love
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: Is Blne not get away with it and send women
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: into hotels in Puerto Rico with men who actively punched
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: walls and no one died, no one got arrested, no
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: one got soon. So now they're like, oh, apparently we
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: don't have to care if the people we are putting
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: on TV are safe people.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: Yes, I listened to Higher Learning or Rachel Lindsay, who
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: was a bachelorette, talked about the immense protocol of vetting
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: that she was under, and You're like, everyone knew. I
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: think that. I think that is part of the issue
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: is that Season one of Mormon Wives stopped filming for
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: ten months because of the trigger warning domestic violence issues
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: that the film was released in this year, so everyone knew.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: We as consumers knew what was going on. We watched
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: the body cam footage of the Utah police come to
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: the house, and there's no way no one knew, Like
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: executives knew, the Bachelor franchise knew. And I think it's
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: a frustrating thing where like we're not having fun anymore.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: Like me as a consumer and real human people who
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: were involved in these shows are not doing well, and
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: what do we as a consumer do with that? Because
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: now my reality TV is too real and not a
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: fun escape in any way.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: And to be fair, I've watched the grittiest of reality TV.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: Like I was a huge My Secret Life MTV fan,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: where they'd be like my Secret life as a person
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: who eats the couch. And then I also got my
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: strange addiction.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: Oh I have not. I have not watched these shows.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: I'm sick. I used to. I also loved I didn't
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: know I was pregnant. Oh okay, yeah, m hmm, yeah,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: I but I mean, I guess we'll just start with
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: Taylor Frankie Paul. So if for whatever reason, you don't
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: have Instagram or TikTok or Hulu, Taylor Frankie Paul was
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: going to be the Bachelorette. It was announced a year
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: ish ago, two years ago. I don't know the Bachelor's
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: production schedule anymore, but it was announced, and then I
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: texted a bunch of people the screenshot and I said,
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: this is a Horseman of the apocalypse. We're in the
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: bad place. The Conservatives have won. We're never going to
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: be treated well as women. Ever, if this happened and
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: people told me calm down, Nebley, it will be so
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: messy and so fun, and I was like, it will
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: ruin the franchise as we knew it. The franchise was
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: already on its way out and shouldn't have continued producing
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: seasons for a while. And in sure, shit, I was right.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: She did bring down the franchise and she did get
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: her ass fired from the past Claret, And now what
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: do they do?
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I so the I made, like I mentioned a
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: PowerPoint for this. So September tenth, twenty twenty five is
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: when she was named when she was named the Bachelor
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: the Bachelorette, and she did that on Call Her Daddy.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: And then late October twenty twenty five is when they
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: wrapped filming for season four. So just to add that
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: it was so that's not that long ago. That was
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: what six months ago?
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Six months ago? And then yeah, yeah, to fuel my
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: hate fire for the decision that ABC made for their
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: own television show that I don't even watch anymore and
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: I have no relationship with. So she gets let goo
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: from the Bachelorette because Dakota, her baby daddy and abuser
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: releases footage of her abusing him and trigger warring. She
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: threw a chair, a child was in the room. It's dark,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: it's awful. I wish I had never seen it except
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: for I saw on season one, episode one of the
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: secret lesson Ormondwives, because that's how the series opens, and
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: I should have turned off my TV. Then, so the
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: world goes bananas. How have you made this woman the
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: front loader of our fairy tale bachelorette series? To which
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: I said, you all were so on board for it
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: being messy and for her to basically just be like
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: beaten down by thirty men for eighteen episodes, Like you
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: guys kept telling me that's what you wanted, and now
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: she's actually kind of a complicated trash person, and you
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: guys are like, why is the trash person who I
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: wanted on my trash TV show being trash? And again
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: she the thing that rubs salt into like my wounds is.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: The entirety of season four is based in two things.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: The first thing is dad talk, and then the second
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: thing is trying to convince Taylor Frankie Paul that she
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: actually wants to be the bachelorette. MM hmmm. And as
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: a Capricorn, that makes me mad because I'm like, what
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: do you mean You've been handed the keys to the castle,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: the dating castle, and you're lying in bed in sweatpants
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: going oh oh oh, you mean no herd a date?
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: And I love Dakota, my dummy baby daddy.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: Yes it. I don't even know which way to start this.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: So I stopped watching the Bachelorette when or the Bachelor?
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: When my best friend put her foot down and said,
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: we're not watching Colton season if Colton is named the Bachelor,
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: and I was like, I respect your boundary.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: Maybe that's when I stopped.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: When was that a right Bachelor?
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: And yeah, that's around. No, I made it into COVID
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: because I watched Matt James's season, and.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: Well so we yeah, so we stopped watching like we've
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: been selected. Mainly, we stopped watching most of the Bachelor
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: seasons and we would still come around for the Bachelorette seasons,
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: and then everyone just I just lost interest and leve
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: Island became a thing and other shows were doing more
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: interesting things. So listen to the podcast recaps on It
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: by two Black Girls, One Rose, because they have my
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: heart and I love here their takes on it. I
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: get why they chose her, why they chose why the
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Bachelor franchise chose Taylor Frankie Paul. She has over eight
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: million followers in like combined TikTok and Instagram like currently
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: and they're a sinking ship. So it's like they saw
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: an opportunity to capitalize on Hulus and the Secret Lives
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: franchise and do like a crossover Flintston Jetson Flintstone Jetson
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: crossover episode. But I think they just got so greedy
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: because they stopped filming The Bachelorette. It was wrapped before January,
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: and they pushed it from airing in January to airing
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: in March after they premiered season four, And like, they
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: could have aired their show and Sinnebon could have given
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: them their money if they just aired it when they
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: were done with it, and instead they wanted more mess
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: because they knew what they had filmed in season four,
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: which was the opposite of a redemption arc for Taylor
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: Drinkie Paul, Like, it just seemed like they were torturing her,
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: not torturing her. She's an adult, She's making her own decisions.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: It was not a fun Seaton such watch I had
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: to fast forward through any time she was talking to
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Dakota or her mom because that was terrifying. It was
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: just too much yeah to watch.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: Also, it's very clear that Taylor Freaking Paul is going
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: through something mentally and chemically that looks like my depression.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: But I would never put a diagnosis on her where
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: it's like, maybe she doesn't want to be the bachelorette
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: because she's literally unwell, and you're all talking around her
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: in confessionals about all of the reasons why she's unwell,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: but no one is saying, Taylor, we can get you
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: out of this contract, and we can get you They
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: took one of them to eating disorder rehab, why couldn't
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: they take Taylor to intensive happiness rehab.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think everyone was holding on to her
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: coattails of success because the more popular she became, the
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: more popular the show became, and their opportunities increased.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: Well. And also, I think, what there is a secret
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: part of me that is pissed off for the rest
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: of the women, because it's so clear that if Jesse
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: had actually divorced her husband in between season three and
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: season four, she would have been a fantastic bachelorette because
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: she's actually a fan of the franchise and has no
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: cards and has studied. She was trying to coach Taylor
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: how to pull this off, and I'm like, well, now
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: you've really fucked it for everyone, Taylor. Now your girl
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: who needs to divorce her little troll goblin man of
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: a husband, Jordan. She'll never get to be the Bachelorette
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: because you ruined for everyone. Who knows if one of
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: them will even get to be a star on Dancing
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: with the Stars again. After all this also, CAMRA's for
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: season five are down, so you're costing all of your
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: friends their paychecks, right.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Okay, so interesting, Back to my timeline because I'm a
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: note taker. Okay, so the timing of all of it
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: felt suspicious to me because the release of season four
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: came on Thursday, March twelfth, and Taylor Frankie Paul was
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: at the Oscars on March fifteen, and then the news
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: was trickling out that something was wrong, like on Monday.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: So it's like everyone had enough time to watch the show,
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: get excited for the Bachelorette, and get those ratings and
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: those ad dollars from Hulu and then these bombs were dropped.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: It just felt like I felt like a conspiracy theorist
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: of oh my gosh, what's happening, what are we doing?
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: But so in between those things, on March seventh, the
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: cast had a call with Disney and Hului sect to
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: voice their concerns about filming with Taylor so and that
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: record and so that happens. It seems like the women
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: were saying, who are also executive producers this season, We're
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: saying we don't want to film with her for whatever reasons,
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: and Disney was like, la la, la, la la, we
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: don't hear you because we're doing our quote unquote investigation,
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: so we don't want you to influence us. And then
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: cameras are down and it seems like they're still down.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: And again, my conspiracy is that men can't let us
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: be happy. So Dakota saw that Taylor was about to
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: be literally probably one of the most infamous bachelorettes of
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: all time and sent to video to TMZ. And by
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: the way, it took me days to comprehend that it
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: was an old video. I was like, well, damn, she
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: got back from the battellette and she threw a chair
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: out of him. I thought it was a brand new incident.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: Well, that is part of the confusing part though, is
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: that there was a new incident and that happened at
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: the end of February.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: Oh, and.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: So all of this started about the new incident that
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: had happened in February, like February twenty fourth, and then
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: reality Steve had screen shots from Dakota's phone which his
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: roommate sent him, Like Dakota's roommate sent Reality Steve shot
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: yeah of Taylor calling like one hundred and fifty times
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: in ninety minutes. So those are all over. So there
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: was the incident at the end of February and then
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: but the video that was released was from the twenty
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: twenty three incident, which everybody knew about and nobody had
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: seen the video. And the thing that was frustrating, like
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: I was on the a Patreon or discord as the
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: news was developing, like this was how I was getting
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: my news and I did no work that day, was
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: that as soon as the video was released, then everything
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: is canceled. Before the video was released, which we all
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: knew this event had happened, we were all fine consuming
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: the show but once the video aired also released by TMC,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: we ABC says that's it, We're done, we can't do it,
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: and you're like, but you knew, you knew this video existed,
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: you knew these events happened, and now you can't say
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: you didn't know.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: You know what's fascinating. I watched so many tiktoks of
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: ringcam footage catching domestic violent situations, like whether it's men yelling,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: men physically in your space, whatever. There are so many
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: women on TikTok trying to use that platform to draw
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: light to the abuse that they're facing and then hope
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: that that video gets to be used in court when
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: they go to file for restraining orders and press charges
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: and things like that. And then I watch a lot
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: of tiktoks of cops watching those ringcam footage videos when
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: the cops are called and she's like, okay, he escalated
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: right here here it is on the ring door camera,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, we can't use that. That's not
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: I can't just be watching your surveillance state bring camera.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, what do you mean you can't watch
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: the video of her being shaken around? What do you
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: mean it's evidence? So it's so, and again, this is
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: America in a nutshell. We tried to put a lady
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: on TV. A lady did something horrendous and now we're
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: mad at that lady. But women will literally also try
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: to play that to be like, I have a video.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: I scraped his DNA underneath my fingernails so you could
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: test it. I did all of these things to try
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: and make you believe me, and we're never believed.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's because women have to be a
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: perfect victim to even be taken seriously. And there's a
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: woman who writes pop syllabus on substack and she's my
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: name twin so. Her name's Christiana inmbacwe Medina and she
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: wrote about this in her substack and she called it
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: the bad White Girl Vacuum, and she was so I
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: just want to read like her.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: She says.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: She's a young wild woman, typically between eighteen to thirty five,
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: who we watch self destruct in full view. The machine,
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: tabloid press, Papa Razzi, gossip blogs profits from her destruction,
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: and this young woman becomes a punchline, a warning, and
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: oftentimes a collective punching bag for society's judgments about what
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: a woman should or shouldn't be.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that right, because right after the Taylor PRANKI Paul thing,
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: the chapel rome was mean to a kid in an
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: airport thing happened, and I went, do you see what
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: I have to live through? Do you see? Because and
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: I talk about this like mysterious TV executive all the time,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, you know, some guy who has an
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: accounting degree named Bob is in charge of what we
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: get to watch on TV and who gets represented on
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: TV and who doesn't. And it's not a guy who
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: has probably even one creative hobby. He just understands how
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: to crunch numbers and be like, you know, Hershey, Chocolate
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: will pay us X amount of dollars for this ad
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: spot because they've used her before, and therefore she gets
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: to be on the TV or the Follower's thing or
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: anything like that. And it's so it's just so dystopic
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: to have an entire trow b because a lot of
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: people are having conversations surrounding the video at all, and
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: that clearly Dakota is also a problem and probably the
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: original problem, and no one is talking about it about
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: things like reactive abuse. There's a whole acronym that I
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: always get wrong, and how she is also a victim,
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: but because he sent a video to TMZ first, he
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: gets to be the victim who's right And And it's
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: such a layered and nuanced conversation because at the end
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: of the day, both people are in a very toxic
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: abuse of cycle. Yeah, and they're both perpetuating it, Like
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: neither one of them is in the right. And the
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: people that we should be feeling the worst for are
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: her kids and her younger sister who has to live
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: with her mom. That's yea who I feel the worst for.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: I think as American culture, we are so unqualified to
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: talk about domestic violence and I assume also really prejudice
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: against stigmas that we have heard and made it believe
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: and don't fully understand. And and it's hard to have
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: like to want to talk about this topic about the
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Bachelorette and from like different perspectives and also hold this
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: very heavy topic at the same time, because you're like,
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: how do we have any conversation and not talk about
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: the dB but also know that like, I am not
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: qualified to talk about the domestic violence of it, and
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: I and that's not a cop out to say, I don't.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying like, yeah, I'm.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: Not a therapist. I am literally just in a witness
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: to what I've what abuse cycles I myself have been
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: adjacent to.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that, like, so my first instincts
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: when this this news started breaking was this really I
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: felt taken back to the two thousands of like Lindsay
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: Loewen and Amanda Bynes and Britney Spears. I felt that
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: like hunger to devour this news from like a really
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: like ooh, this is so juicy. I want to hear
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: more about it. And then I had to stop and realize, no, no,
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: Like I've learned a lot from that since then, and
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: I know that the media is telling me something and
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: that you know, we can't just take everything at base value,
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: and like, I don't know. I read did you read
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Girl on Girl? A book by Sophie Gilbert.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: I listened to a good portion of it.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it made me think of that book and
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: just because that is really a retrospective of that area
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: era of media and what the media did to pit
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: women against women. And that is how I ended up
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: feeling as the news was breaking. Even though yes, Taylor
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: Frankie Paul has done something very real and harmful to
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: her child in front of her child, and is dealing
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: with abuse and is being abused. At the same time,
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: the media's consumption of it was this really retro two
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: thousands Perez Hilton kind of vibe, and maybe because TMZ
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: is the one breaking the news, but I'm like, oh,
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: this is weird, this is weird. What are we being fed?
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: And it made me realize, like before The Bachelor was canceled, realized, oh,
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: I can't watch that season. I can't participate in this anymore.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: If that's the only way I can abstain from it.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I will say that whenever someone wants to
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: jop and this is because of my own bias against men,
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: And as of today today is April sixteenth, twenty twenty six,
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: I have sixty two million reasons to have bias against men. Yes,
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: in case people want to question me on why I do.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: Whenever a woman is painted as a person who has
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: been violent to a man, my follow up question is
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: always what was that man engaged in five minutes before
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: that woman started screaming, thrashing, throwing furniture. What was he doing?
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: What was he doing. I very much believe in reactive abuse,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: and unfortunately he got her. He got her, he knew
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: what he was doing. He's like, hmm hmm. She thinks
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: she's going to be queen of this castle, and I'm
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: going to lose my spot on dad Talk.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: Uh uh.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: A video went out to TMZ that he held on
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: to for three years. You sick, go.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think too. I did not watch the
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: video and try to avoid stuff like that online as
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: much as possible. I did hear a clip of it,
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: and it was horrifying. But I did also hear someone
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: say this is unverified, probably from Reddit or a podcast,
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: that she had been locked in the garage prior to
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: the video being filmed and that, and You're like, okay, yeah,
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: that makes an amount of sense that your reaction would
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: be strong, and that I don't know the whole Johnny
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: depth Amber heard. Caste comes up where if you react
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: or are violent, then the violence against you no longer matters.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: And it also makes me think of women who defend
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: themselves and then are prosecuted for a murder because they
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: were defending themselves, and juries really tend to convict these
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: women because they think women should have been more self controlled,
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: and how they defended themselves, and that the defense of
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: their self defense wasn't warranted, that they should have been restrained,
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: and how they protected their own lives, and that all
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: of that comes into these reality shows that we used
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: to have fun watching.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because as a woman who has a podcast around
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: the idea of everyday misogyny.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: My.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Not legal advice, but my advice, my life advice, My
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: lifestyle advice is fight like hell, girl, get him out
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: of your house. Fight like Helen, Get him out of
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: your house. They always have the upper hand, so get
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: him out of your house. However, you need to get
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: him out of your house because he's going to have
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: the upper hand socially, he's going to have the upper
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: hand legally, he's going to have the upper hand physically.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: And again, I'm a person who day one was like
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: this Taylor Frankie Paul woman is not interesting enough to
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: have warranted an entire franchise. I don't find her very charming.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: I don't find her very interesting. The light swinging that
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: they did where they like kind of kissed one another's
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: husband's near a shower, I'm like, that's boring. I don't
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: care how often you go to church that's not swinging,
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: that's not scandalous, and it's not sexy.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: Like.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: She's not a person that I was ever rooting for.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: But also that's a very big reality, A very big
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: reality is when it comes to instances like this, I
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: logically know that the man always has the upper hand
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: and the privilege. Yeah, So it's a very and I
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: think why it rocked America so much is because this
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: is this is the tale as old as time. We've
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: seen this happen so many times. And you and I
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: are the generation who was raised on the Lifetime movie
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: network where we glamorized women fighting like hell to get
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: him out of your house.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: Yes. Yeah, so I did see today in Secret Lives
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: updates when I was googling something that she Taylor Frankie
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: paul Is. The DV charges have been dismissed and she
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: will not face any new charges. So that's an interesting,
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: well earn an event.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: I feel like congressionally, like, isn't it part of like
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: our big supreme laws or whatever that you can't be
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: prosecuted for the same crime twice? So she had to
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: have been prosecuted for it.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: Season one, Oh are you talking about Double Jeopardy the
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: judge story, because that's the only race and I know that.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: I was like, I'm a lawyer now, and you can't
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: get me on the same time watch twice.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: I watched Double Jeopardy, I watched Primal Fear. I am
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: a lawyer, and I will take up your case. Yes, yes,
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: for doing that about me, right, So she was, well,
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: I feel like you can't be convicted of the same
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: crime twice based on Double Jeopardy. Obviously not a lawyer,
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: but since it was a new case, I'm like, which
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: domestic there are three that I know of, because there's
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: the one from twenty twenty three, there's the one from
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty six, and then there were rumors of there
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: being another one in between those two that maybe they
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: were investigating. So at any point of this news, I
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: don't know which dB charge we're talking about or accusation.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: So it's hard to know what is going on over there.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: It is hard, And I think what I've been noticing
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: about how not fun it is to talk about TV
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: scripted or otherwise or movies is people are desperate to
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: have heroes and villains and that be the end of it.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: Like I want everyone to see the drama. I don't
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: want anyone to talk to me about it because I
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: know your opinions are going to be bad because it's
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: about a woman who did a kind of shady thing,
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: and we can't handle it when women aren't just like
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: pretty and lovely. So I don't want you to talk
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: to me about Zendeia in that movie. And we're currently
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: experiencing it with this season of The Pit where due
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: to doctor Robbie's depression, he's a massage genus now and
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: he's not just mister Qi crinkles in a biting sense
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: of sarcastic humor that we love and makes us teingly.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: He's literally a man who screams up women in the
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: middle of the er. And people are like, why are
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: they ruining the show? And I was like, there's a
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: thousand there's a thousand reasons why are you watching the show.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: There's a thousand reasons why Robbie's in a downward spiral.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think the lack of nuance is a
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: good good point to make that I wonder if this
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: has to do with like declining literacy, like even media literacy,
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: where if something's not black and white and clear cut,
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: like maybe people aren't understanding it.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's because we have an empathy problem in our
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: country currently and probably globally, but I never leave the country,
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: so I wouldn't know. But we have an empathy problem.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: And the reason we have an empathy problem is because
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: we have a literacy problem. Because how did I learn
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: how to believe that other people's cultures are important and
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: that people are people and people do weird things by
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: reading Anne Rice and the Dear America series and the
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: American Girl Doll books. Okay, I read it like I
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: read a lot as a kid, and I was like, wow,
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: the things are really layered and they're really nuanced and
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: not everyone who's perfect. And I read a lot of
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: teen soapy books by Sarah Desson, and I learned how
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: to feel. And the children aren't learning how to feel
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: from their iPads because they stop watching Bluie after probably
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: the age of six, and Blue can only do so much.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: I mean it is healing a generation, yes, parents, so
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: let's not say I mean it's doing a lot of
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: heavy lifting.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: For we also sensationalize everything to a point where we're
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: just constantly eating one another alive because of things like
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: TikTok again my favorite social media platform, where it's like
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: someone told me yesterday they were like, I, oh, it
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: was Margaret when we were talking Desperate Housewives for this podcast.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: She goes, I think we're just talking about TV too
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: much because now the pit fans are just eating one
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: another alive because they've decided to hate doctor Robbie and
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: they're like, we must cancel Noah Wiley. And I'm like,
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: his smile crinkles, his eye crinkles are the only things
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: that are keeping me breathing most days. Well, I'll just
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: look at a picture of old grizzled Noah Wiley and
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: his smile crinkles, and I'll remember the will to live.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: And we're just always picking apart everything. And sometimes knowledge
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: is power, and sometimes I just truly know too much
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: about people.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think I've The discourse around TV has
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: seems to be more important than the TV itself. Like
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: what we're being fed is kind of trash, and yet
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: our ability to talk about it and our ability to
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: talk about the nuance is really seems to be the
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: point of what of consuming it, Like, like you watching
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: Mormon Wives because you're like, I want to know what
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: we're talking about, and me listening to podcasts with like
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: Justine and Natasha from Two Black Girls talking about Euphoria,
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: which I've never watched, but I want to hear what
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: they have to say about this season. Like so, I
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: think the discourse has its benefits and it has its drawbacks,
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: and I don't know. I can only pinpoint to twenty
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: Lockdown and like Tiger King as like, oh, we all
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: were doing the same thing at once, and it kind
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: of brought back watching Lost or Mad Men on Sunday
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: nights and then all talking about it. But because we're
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: all online so much now, it's to this degree of
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: I is it too much? Is it so helpful? Or
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: are people just feeding us trash so that we can
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: talk about it.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Season four of Mormon Wives took out
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: any credibility that they had with me when they centered
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: the men. The men got really insecure in their marriages.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: And that would be the season in Housewives where we
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: gave all the husbands a loser atit and prepared for
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: people to start getting divorces. But Hulu wit, oh no,
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: the men are getting insecure in their marriages. Let's make
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: sure we platform Dad talk an audience nation global wide,
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: where like, we don't give a fuck about dad talk.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: What are you talking about? Yeah?
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: I think my biggest problem with it was that it
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: was very earnest, Like every scene the men got was
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: without humor and was just the most supposed to be
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: the most serious feelings that have ever been felt by
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: men ever. Likes their amount of screen time that was
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: given to them was like a huge like validation to
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: their existence when they brought literally nothing to the table.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: The entire season four of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: can be wrapped up in one scene of the first
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: season of The Valley, which the Valley is the vander
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: Pump Rules spin off that they had to do after
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: scandabal where it's like the people who were married and
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: having children moved to the Valley because I guess that's
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: the part of la that you can raise kids in.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: I don't know it is it is? It's true that
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: I know exactly what it means.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So they moved there and they have their own show.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: And Jax Taylor, who is the worst out of vanderpupp
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: Rules and the other well, no, there is actually a
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: husband who was worse than Jax Taylor the season one
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: of the Valley and that's Jesse. Whoever thought that would
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: be a sentence, I said. But anyways, the husbands are
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: sitting on a cliff on this like little vacation they're
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: taking because one of the wives is about to give birth.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: So they do one last tiraatera god, the men do
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: a last No the couples, but oh, okay, okay, but
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: the men are just like having male bonding time on
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: like a rock at this like Airbnb. And one of
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: the couples has three children. I think they're up to
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: five now I don't know, under the age of four,
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: which is hell on water. And I think two of
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: those shildered are twins. Twin infants that math work. Yeah, So,
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: so he starts crying. And I can't stand when men
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: cry postpartump. It enrages something in me. It it true.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: I'm like, stop making shit up like I want men
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: to feel, but only on my terms. And you don't
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: actually get to be the one crying if you didn't
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: give birth to the baby. So he starts crying, and
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: he starts crying because he tells the men, you know,
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: she's doing everything she can, and she's doing so great,
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: and we got these three kids under the age of four,
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: and it's just constant baby diapers, beating all of it,
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: and she's holding her head up high. And then he
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: ruined himself for me forever when he said, but no
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: one ever wants to take an account that when she's
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: feeding two babies, I'm holding the other one. And then
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: all of the men of the valley gathered around him
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: and was like, that's right. They never want to talk
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: about what where do we And I was like, cause
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: you're doing nothing.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: And then switch over to season four of Mormon Wives,
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: and that's all.
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: You've seen in episodes of that.
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: I don't I don't know. I want to know whose
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: idea this was. Whose idea was it to be, like,
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: you know what we need the center Vin's feelings, house
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: husband's feelings. We should center those.
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: Also, the one that has a leg to stand on
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: to have a platform for being super dad Connor too
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: busy for dad talk.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: That was my favorite scene in season four was when
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: he and Blondie, who we hate Affleck. They're like at
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: that place city like, I've tried to take this opportunity
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: to like express myself, so I've been doing dot dot
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: dot Magic, up close Man, close up magic. I mean,
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: I was like, see, that's the humor I want in
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: my show. I want this to be a ridiculous statement
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: that I am earnestly telling you that I needed something
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: to bring me out of always caring for my children.
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: And I turned to magic.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: And he does close up magic for the fans while
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: they wait outside of the theater for Chicago for Whitney
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: to come out.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: I saw that, and I was so amused. And you
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: know what it's funny is that he's had like a
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: huge redemption arc of because in season one he was
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: like on grinder or Tinder or something and they had
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: to move to Hawaii. And I don't think he is
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: really on social media, Like I don't think he has
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: an Instagram. He has a pretty small TikTok, probably because
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: she's like, I will murder you if you ruin this
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: for us. Like but and he's talked about his soure
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: warning assault like sexual assaults that he was under that
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: he I don't know the right way of phrasing that.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: So he's had a huge redemption arc. And I think
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: the lesson was to just like shut up and help
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: the nannies raise the kids because it okay of all
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: the dad talk, and they showed all of this labor
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: of the men holding the babies and doing the stuff
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: in like a blitz. When Whitney is having jen Affleck
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: at her airbnb, they mentioned the nannies and the assistant,
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: So you're like, there's at least two people that are
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: paid to help wrangle their lives at least, and they're
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: given no time. But any husband holding a baby, he's
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: given all the screen time because he's his work is valuable,
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: his labor can never be invisible.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, And then season four also opens up with the
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: women trying to do a very female centered what I
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: would consider a manifestation Wian moment where they're gonna like
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: release butterflies.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: Oh oh my god that scene.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: So picture this with me. Everyone, a crescent moon of
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: women dressed in matching outfits I'm pretty sure, or at
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: least matching tones are standing there with a box closed
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: full of butterflies, and one of them, I think it's
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: Macy Is, Like, I want everyone say it out loud,
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: say it in your head, say a nice wish we
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: could have for the season and our friendships and who
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: we are as people except for I let her get
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: out that entire sentence. She's trying to set the intention
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: for the butterflies to be there. And then gobblin Jordan,
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: who truly looks like the luck of the Irish kid
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: from Disney Channel. He looks, Oh my gosh, he is
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: a leprecha on. He has stolen me pot of gold
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: or someone has stolen his, so he's mad at us.
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: He do in and he's like and he literally claps,
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: so she has to stop talking. And he's like, hey, everyone,
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: just a real quick did a death. I don't even
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: remember what he said because it was so not important.
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: And then the children are crying because they thought that
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: they were going to get to see butterflies. So now
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: a gaggle of children are going, mommy, what about the
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: butter flecks? Of he couldn't release the butterflies, and.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: And that was they only have so long those those
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: butterflies only have so long to live. You got to
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: get him out of We literally don't have time for this.
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: Jordan like also that they did. They were shaking the
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: box to like revive it. That was at the baby
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: sip and seat. That's right, a baby. Three women had
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: new babies three and so they had a cutesy little
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: like come meet our babies. We're going to release butterflies.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: And Jordan's announcement was about going to vander pump Philo.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: That's right, it was about a dad Talk uh power grab.
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and he was like, we have this great opportunity
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: and dad Talk is going to stand on its own
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: two feet, which is not true. They don't have feet
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: to stand on it. Like, yeah, so that scene you're
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: was that episode one?
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: It was. I swear it opened the whole season.
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it really did tell us what we were in for.
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: And Jordan the Leprechaun is my arch genesis tom Stavo
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: come to life. So like, if anyone was a Desperate
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: Housewives fan, you will one day get to on this podcast.
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: Listen to me truly say, every episode I watched of
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: Desperate Housewives, I wish Tom Stavo would drop dead, even
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: though I knew it wasn't going to happen, but I
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: willed it. I was like, maybe if I think hard enough,
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: the TV will rewrite itself and he will drop dead
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: and we will all be released from this. Because I
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: can't stand it, no one I can't stand and this
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: is a Housewives rule. I don't like it when men
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: are in women's business. I do not like. Yeah, get
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: out of my business and out of my sip and sea.
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: Why were they invited?
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: Right? I think, okay, just to run some numbers, because
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with numbers.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, tell them more unpopular the dance are.
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so okay, Jordan has let me see, I'm
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: looking at my Excel like maybe three hundred thousand followers.
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: Sure like, but the men, so Dakota embarrassingly has like
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: one million followers, all would be upset with yourselves. Yeah,
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: I don't know what they're oh uh. Combined, the men
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: had three point four million followers. And that's like across
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: TikTok and Instagram, and that's all of them combined with
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: three point four million followers from like when season four aired,
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: Taylor Frankie Paul had four point five million followers before
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: season one ever aired of Secret Lives. So like, the
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: men literally are not bringing anything to the table. Who
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: This is where I feel like some like that media
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: has turned to conservative and that this is how they're
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: trying to convert people by showing us that men feelings
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: all matter more than women's.
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that men are here too, we know. Yeah, I'm
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: actually upset about it. Usually because as soon as Jordan
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: would have made that announcement, I would have screamed it.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: I would have been the single auntie being like who
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: invited you? Why?
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: And yeah? And like, at least in season the earlier seasons,
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: like when Jesse and Demi were friends, Jordan had like
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: Demi's much older husband to hang out with Brett and
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: like that at least gave like antics and hijinks and
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: like dumb fun. But none of this was dumb fun.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: No. They made them fish and then talk about their
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: feelings while they were fishing. Oh like seven minutes.
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah was that this season? Yeah?
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: They only showed me Potter doing close up magic once,
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: and they could have made him do it in all
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: of his confessionals. I yeah, he should have done a
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: new magic trip for every confessional.
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like, you know what I do to help
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: clean up around the house, close up magic rather than
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: nannies are cleaning up the house.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: I mean it got to the point where I was like,
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: oh no, Jen Affleck's husband, the super Soldier. He literally
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: looks like if you say the wrong word, he's acting
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: of Baiden like, yes, he's Gilly.
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I never want to meet.
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: That man, I know. But all of a sudden, I'm like,
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: well he's like the second least annoying one.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: But no, oh I don't feel that way. I hate
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: him so much. I think here, I'm not over. I
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: don't even know where to start. I'll start at the end.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: He goes to see Whitney. When Jen doesn't want to
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: talk to Whitney, he goes to that friend business, like,
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: just say Jen that you're not going to go. They'll
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: send your husband, who literally hates Whitney, who she's blocked
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: on social media. Don't do that. The whole medical school stuff,
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: the potential maybe he gambled away his family's money too,
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: that was supposed to be for medical school. His arc
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: in this season about like his wife working hard and
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: him not having as much access to her, or saying
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: like the kids miss you or it just sucks. A
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: mom doesn't need to be told that because she knows
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: she already feels guilty. So you're just wanting more attention.
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: Well, and so he's third most annoying. Jordan is the
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: most annoying, and he should be eradicated at this point.
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: He is third annoying because the second annoying one is
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: Mikayla's groomor we now have to call legally her husband,
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: but her groomer her husband mister. And it's starting to
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: happen on the valley too, because Kristen Dodie just had
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: a baby and now her Huan, her fiance, just sits
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: next to her, looking sad and unfucked and just feeling.
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: I just don't understand because it's been six weeks and
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: two days and the doctor said that after six weeks
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: we could be having sex. And it's the only way
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: I know how to feel close Tayo. And I'm like,
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: why do men think it's so okay to look at
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: their wife who's holding a baby. That baby is usually
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: attached to them for nourishment. She has not washed her
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: hair in three days, she hasn't eaten a meal, she
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: has not slept through the night, and they just knit
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: and knit and it when do you get to be
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: my sex style again? I have things I have to
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: work out and I need your body to do them.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: Master baby.
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: Here. Yeah, Mikayla is the second most followed person on
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: the show. She always has been, and she isn't really
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: doing other things outside of the show that we are seeing.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: I think that's a really fascinating number because it's by
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: a lot that she is farther ahead than most people.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: Her ability to talk about things on the screen is
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: pretty refreshing and sobering, like her ability to talk about
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: her abuse at a young age, her talking about her
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: chronic illness flare ups. Those are that is would, I imagine,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: be a hard topic to keep bringing up. And I
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: could kind of handle this sexual intimacy talk last season,
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: but I didn't need two seasons of it at all.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: Like you said, all you needed to say, Jace, like
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: you get she knows how you feel. And if she
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: doesn't want to work on it, she doesn't have to
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: because maybe she's not ready to work on it because
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: she just had another baby. They she had so many babies.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: I have that written down somewhere. She has four four
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: she has four kids, like I just this.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Also, she's been having your children since she was
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: seventeen seventeen.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they got married when they were like sixteen, and
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: he is five years older than her, so he was
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: twenty one, which is an age gap that is uncomfortable.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: And he has seemed like a nice guy. There are
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: quotes for the other seasons, and he seems to support her.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: He's just quiet. But the sexual intimacy stuff of like,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: this is the most important thing to me, and you
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: need to fix.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: It for me.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: For me, that's the thing, Like you need to fix
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: yourself so that I'm okay.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is why religious people have to let
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: go of that masturbation is a sin. You gotta let
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: it go. You gotta let it go because now I
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: have these loser men begging mayor postpartum wives who have
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: been split into by a baby that they should get
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: to have sex with them. And I'm sorry, find literally
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: anything else that you like about your wife that isn't
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: a service to you. I'm not talking that she does
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: your laundry grate or that she makes your favorite chicken
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: dinner or anything. Literally, like, I just always like that
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: when we're on a walk, she points out every bird, bluebird,
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: she loves birds. Find anything that you find charming about
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: your wives and start saying it out loud.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: That's so sweet. Yeah, I think Also though, on top
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: of all of Michaela's issues, like Michaela's sexual issues, she
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: also has chronic Yeah, Larah.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: Probably you're like triggered by him.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: Yes, I am not, yes, but you're like that that
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: also like if you're physically like broken out in a
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: rash all over your maybe I don't want to get down.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: Maybe maybe now's not the time.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: Because I really do like Mikayla and Macy. It's Macy right,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: It's not like Macy Okay. I do really enjoy them.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: I think that they are the people who are like,
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: why are we looking at the husband so much? I
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: think they're the humor back bone of the show. They
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: lighten it up. They've always got something to say. I
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: love their like Mary Kate and Ashley's super sleuth like dynamic,
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: like they'll solve the mystery by dinner time, and I
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: love that for them. I really like them. Macy is
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: All has also been very open about the hard things
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: that she has had to go through as a woman
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: and written a memoir about it that I did not read,
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: but I heard good things and I at the crux
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: of the show. It was supposed to be about the
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: group of the thesis of the show was a group
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: of women came together and they started making content about
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: their real lives and what they had to do as mothers,
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: and then they made millions of dollars off of that,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: and I think that's fantastic. Yeah, okay, dance on the countertop,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: how fun I've done it?
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: Like.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: They made millions of dollars doing that, And they were
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: supposed to continue to be a community and a friendship,
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: and it was supposed to be the comic the complicated
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: nature of women centric communities because of all of the
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: bullshit that we have to fight in our brains to
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: like one another, because of all of the bullshit that
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: society puts on us about not liking one another, And that,
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: to me, is a perfect show. And I would have
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: watched that show to hell or high water, and instead
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: I do view it as just like conservative traditional value
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: use propaganda. And I think that that was made very
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: clear with season four, where it's like, remember these loser,
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: ugly men, give a shit about them? Please?
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I think I so. I mentioned it before. The
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: women are executive producers for the first time in season four,
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: and I don't really know what that means. It could
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: just be a title, it could be a pay bump.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: I'm happy for them, it's something like. But with that,
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: they turned out the worst season ever like everyone turned
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: out this season. And I don't know if it's because
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: they were filming the seasons too close together. That's one idea,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: But I think, like to the conservative lean that I
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: felt towards it is that they willingly gave their power
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: and their space and their audience over to these men.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: And I think that like they couldn't escape the patriarchy
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: of men are inherently valuable and deserve time and space
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: and attention. And and I don't know if the women
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: individually are doing this, but if they were all raised
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: in the Mormon community, that would be kind of baked in,
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: or if the show execs were doing it and they
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: agreed to it, like the women agreed to it. In
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: like my most optimistic take, I want to believe that
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: they didn't have enough time to film and so the
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: men were given that.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: Or booked and busy they were, like.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: Whitney was flying all over the place. Also, Dancing with
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: the Stars pays big money. Did you know that they
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: make at least like they make like at least one
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: hundred and eighty five thousand dollars for the first two
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: weeks and rehearsing time, and then like every week that
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: you stay on, you can make up to like two
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: hundred and eighty five thousand dollars. So like Jen, who's
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: gone all day and her husband is complaining, is bringing
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: home a ton of money and paying for the nanny
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: who's really watching their kids. And Whitney stayed on much
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: longer than Gen and made a ton of money, so
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: you're like, they're not doing nothing. They are really rehearsing
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: and actually getting paid for.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: Their time booked and busy.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so like if if I'm optimistic, I want
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: to believe that they had better things to do, and
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: the men I don't know. It was so painful to
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: watch the earnest portrayal of whiney house husbands who don't
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: really know what it's like to take care of their
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: own children and treat it like babysitting.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and have that be It's I almost have accepted.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: I will say that I am very proud of my
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: side of TikTok because they were like, I'm fast forwarding
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: through their scenes, what do you mean?
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I And even it started with the reunions because
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: I'm like, why are all the husbands here? Why do
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: they get their own couch time?
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: Why are they leaving the.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah exactly, like so they've It does tie into like
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: the trad wise conservative angle of like the trad wives
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: are making a ton of money and producing, you know,
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: so much on their own with camera crews and studios
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: and all of that stuff, and also existing and a
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: dynamic that doesn't want them to thrive in that they
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: probably can't really thrive without their husbands approval or support.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: Right, And it makes me sad when I'm right in
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: these scenarios where I'm like, I'm telling you they're not
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: the heroes that we're hoping that they are. They're not
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: shattering less seedlings because I truly believe that you can't
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: actually shatter a glass ceiling that you're willingly signing up for.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: And it does, like truly make me the most bad
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: that they are executive producers, but like they willingly gave
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: up their time and they keep willingly like why were
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: the husbands of the sid I understand, I understand that
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: we're trying to make men be more involved in the
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: celebrations of the family, but I don't ever want to
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: see men at baby showers, wedding showers, or sipancies unless
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: they are coming out. It's over to fold up chairs
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: and take the gifts and lift the heavy things. That's
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: why they get to come. They get to eat the
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: cold Chipotle buffet beautiful, yes, And they get to fold
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: up the chairs and put the gifts in a truck
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: and then drive away. That's how we do it in
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: my family.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: I have a theory. I have a theory that them,
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: the house husbands, were willing to let their women have
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: internet fame and because that was supporting their lives in
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: some capacity. And then once the women got real like
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: a new level of fame TV fame, that the men
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: were like, well, then that's mine, I deserve that too.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: You can't be this famous without me. And and to
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: the point of like, were these women ever going to
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: smash the patriarchy or or reform Mormonism? I think that
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: that is that idea of like bringing the system down
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: from within is such a lie. We're taught to believe that, like,
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: we can reform it from the inside, and you're like, no,
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: you can't, because the system is gonna persist and you
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: eventually have to decide to live outside of it to
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: have rights or freedom. Or I think that that idea
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: of reforming from the inside is something that keeps us
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: complace it and is a lie and just is not
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: possible to do. And the season showed us that they
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: all want to exist on the inside of the system.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: I the fallacy that you just described was beautiful, and
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: it's also partner to another fallacy that I hate, which
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: is when people tell me men are just too dumb
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: to know that they're mistreating you. They have no idea,
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: they have no idea, no one ever taught them how
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: to feel, and therefore they're too dumb to know that
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: they're doing it, and therefore you can't be mad at them.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: It's truly how women justify still living and earning some
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: sort of privilege from the system that harms them.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that you.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: I don't like that, because if the Mormon wives think
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: that people would turn their back on them because they
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: got a divorce, I hope that they know that I
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: would be the first one in line for all of
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: their book signings, any Dancing with the Star tours. I
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: would love to support their divorce. I love supporting women's divorces.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: Wh Yeah, I don't know. Is there anything else we
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: got to talk about? We were going to do a
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: where are they now? Mikayla is hinting at separating from
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: her husband, but she does not.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: She did not because so she's been in California, in
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: southern California, she seems very happy. I read that it
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: was about her being closer to medical treatment for her
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: chronic illness. And then she posted a video of her
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: and her husband at Disneyland making fun of Zach Affleck,
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: which I approve of, but with her husband, I was like, wow, guy,
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: you're still together. But I think Jesse Draper is making
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: weird tiktoks with Marciano so mag girl, I guess.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: And trying to sleep with Miranda's ex. Because everyone's yes,
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: everyone has decided that Chase is non problematic and the
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: most interesting person on the show.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: When he also didn't he have a podcast that was
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: talking crap about all of Yes.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: Also, you think I'm in the comments every time I
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: watch a video that might even say the word Mormon,
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: there's Chase with a quippy little line and they are funny.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: So he's either using the right prompts for chat GPS. Yeah,
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: he's actually funny, but people are eating it up. They're like,
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: let me do the call for Chase Mormon w and
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: then he shows up.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: He's like, oh my gosh. You know, he's at least working.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: He's making a name for himself as Miranda's possible ex husband.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: I don't think they're really divorced. I he's at least
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: trying to make something for himself.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: Also, okay, more, where are they now? Jesse is supposedly
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: divorcing Jordan, which will make me her number one fan.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, she can't go get your hair done.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll go get my hair done. I'll fly to
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: you and I will get my hair done with Jesse
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: if she signs divorce papers.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that haunting line of it'd be harder. It's hard
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: to be married to, but it'd be hard to divorce.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: But I think I think every mother of a daughter
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: should have that conversation with their daughter where it's like,
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: you have to marry a man that you know if
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: you have to divorce, it will not ruin your life
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: danger wise, money wise, petty wise, kid wise. There are
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: men out there that women are still married to because
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: they know he'll be scarier to divorce.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and this, I mean, sadly isn't her first divorce.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: And I think that is maybe one reason that she
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: is like, well this one should work or I.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: No, Jesse, culture's fucked up. They probably wanted you to
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: be married by fifteen. When you're trying to marry women
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: off at fifteen, they're going to have a couple of
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: divorces under their belts.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: I mean most of them came into the show divorced one, two, three, four, five, Yeah,
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: out of out of nine, so the majority of them
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: came in divorce.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: Also, Jesse's making MESSI tiktoks with Marciano, which I do
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: kind of love, but she's also trying to sleep with Chase. Yeah,
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, because I guess everyone's going to take their
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: shot at Chase. Did you.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: There was somebody who made a really smart reel about
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: the Mormon wives and how we're really watching like their
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: second adolescence that.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: Like, oh yeah, like because they're in a taste one.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so they got married so young, and so now
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: that they have some stability, they're able to experience a
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: different form of adolescence. And I definitely think Jesse is
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: going to go that route with her post divorce life.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: I'll let her dye my hair any color that she
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: wants and give me any boufont that she wants.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: You're gonna get a lot of extensions.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: I can't wait to not be able to upkeep those.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: I am actively as I age, I am losing hair.
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to go on like the hers pill.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: So the extension might actually help me out.
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I want this. Uh, this would be a
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: funny like makeover.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: Oh, I'm gonna stitch it in tagger Jesse. Hi, my
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: name is Hamdley. I have no money. I have zero money.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: I live with my father currently. Because I have zero money,
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: I can barely afford the cat that's sitting next to me.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: But I need you to know that if you sign
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: divorce papers, and if you get Jordan off of my
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: TV forever and he just disappears because no one cares
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: about his social media footprint, if you signed to worse papers,
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: I'll let you do whatever you want to my hair.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: I'll let you do whatever you want, and I will
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: tag your salon and which one said that she doesn't
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: do good hair? I'll call her a liar to her face?
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: Was it?
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: DEMI?
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: Okay? So I think so, I think we need to
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: take a trip to Provo when this happens. When I
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: believe that she is going to do this and we
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: are going to Utah.
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: And honestly, Jesse, you should come to me because you
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: have money, but I will go to you because Utah
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: is kind of beautiful for as really fucked up things
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: happen there. Jenn is getting to spin off in California.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: That's not that no one's going to watch.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: Okay, I have decided the scenario in which I would
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: watch it. I need her to get her real estate license.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: I need her to join selling Sunset OC. I would
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: watch that.
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, girl, don't you old show. Just go join those
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: weird bald twins in the ocean.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're already in the o C. I drive past
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: the thing, like, I would watch her pretend to sell houses,
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: but I don't want to watch her with Orange County
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: Mormon wife.
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: No, I don't like Jen Appleck. If anyone wants to
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: know where I don't like her.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: I I don't like her. I okay, I have a
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: soft spot spot a soft spot for her baby trap pregnancy,
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: like yeah, that broke my heart. Yeah, that mental breakdown
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: and that just like her actually having to stop filming
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: and the depression of accidentally being pregnant, probably never considering
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: the option of having an abortion and then really being
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: trapped in this marriage. That just it was so heavy
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: and i and was very hard to watch. And so
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: after that, I'm like, I don't need her to be
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: a villain. I just I'm like, I don't know how
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: you recovered from that.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: Oh well, this is how she recovered from it. She
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: chow chatted away. That's true because it was like resold
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: her soul to her marriage.
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is true. But she did do a Duncan
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: Donuts commercial with Ben Affleck, right, yeah, yeah, so at
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: least she's making money because with the Dancing with the
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: Stars money and the Duncan money.
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: I gotta Jen Affleck. If you go on record to
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: say that Ben Affleck admitted to being a grumpy, awful,
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: mean man who has treated Jalo poorly while you were
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: on the Duncan lot, I will chat chat with you
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: up and down the open Inenheimer OC office.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 2: Or like a kitchen island or on.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: I'll get on a kitchen island. I've always wanted to
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: Coyote Ugly.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, yes, same, I've been meaning to rewatch that.
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: I love kyote Ugly. So yeah, I this season kind
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: of did make me wipe the fact that Jen was
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: on the verge of being the first one to do
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: what I need them all to do and get divorced.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: And then the pregnancy stick was positive and she had it,
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: and I was like, oh no, and it broke my heart.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: And it is exactly what this podcast is about. You're
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: always trapped in misogyny somehow, and it's hard as hell
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: to get out. And then she chocked, chotted right out
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: of her head and she sold her soul back to
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: that man who does not blink. Every once in a while,
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: she'll tell him, you know, I don't actually like being
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: married to you. Love that. I do love that.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I go ahead, because.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: I think that more women should be treating their husband's
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: like roommates. If you are postpartum and you're looking at
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: your husband and you don't like him, that's perfect. But
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: you realistically know that because you have a newborn, you're
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: in no position to divorce said husband, or any list
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: of circumstances as to why you cannot get divorced, because
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: there are reasons because of the patriarchy. Then I say,
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: that's fine. Continue to live off of his dollar. That's
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: actually empowering, and you should treat him like a roommate
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: you resent like you should just always be like, I
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: can't believe you put the dish there and then like
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: simmer in your resentment of your bad roommate that you
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: were legally bound into.
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're dynamic. So I guess I don't like that
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: she is with him? No, like like that?
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: I I yeah, And she's putting a very brave face
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: about it, but she's not making it look like a
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: brave face. She's making it look like cha cha happiness.
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I remember season three when she had the
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: really blonde hair and she was like, had that baby
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: voice while she was pregnant, and it just seemed very
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: like like twice.
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: That's right when she showed up to the reunion and
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: I texted Chelsea Devonte's do you think they gave her
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: a lobotomy? Yeah? I thought she got the Amanda Vines lobotomy.
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: I so, But now you know she's Brunette, is is riving?
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: I don't know, she's I mean, yeah, I mean she's
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: gonna live that Orange County Mormon wife life. I wonder
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: if this is a real show. Do we think this
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: is really gonna happen?
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: No, this goes.
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: Like the conservatism being shoved down our throats unwillingly. Is
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: that by watching secret lives instead of real housewives, we're
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: not going to get a bunch of divorced stories. We're
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: gonna get a bunch of We're making it work even
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 2: though I need a lot of ketamine therapy or like.
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: Also, is Whitney a nice person who I would want
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: to hang out with? Probably not? But am I gonna
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: say that she's not talented and does it? Didn't deserve
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: to win Dancing with the Stars and deserve to be
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: Roxy Heart? I can't. That girl is talented.
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: Her legs go all the way down to the floor.
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: She is doing the work.
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: Have you watched clips of her in Chicago?
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: Have you seen the puppet one? The one where she's Oh.
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 2: I just saw that. Yeah.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, give her a Tony
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: for that bit alone.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: Love this Chicago and I know the like anyone can
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: play Roxy, but I'm.
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: I will die on the hill that Chicago is better
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: when Roxy Heart is cast with a non traditional, not
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: talented person. The show is funnier when Roxy is not talented.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: I like that.
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: I like it because she kills a man and goes
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: to prison in hopes of fame, and she literally doesn't
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: have the chops for fame. It's a better story.
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: So I think Whitney is living her best life and
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: I'm really happy for her and Conor and I. Oh,
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: and I do think the airing of season was it
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: four or three? I got her kicked off like when
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: they released when they released it, yeah, it was like.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: Or no, it was three, because that's when they did
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: the auditions and she said, I just came back to
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: film so I could be on Dancing with the Stars,
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: and that enraged everyone, and I was like, everyone's so
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: fucking stupid. Why do you think any of the women
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: are on the show?
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, oh my gosh. That was my other favorite
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: moment of season four was when Miranda said, people accuse
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: me of coming back for clout, which obviously I came
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: back for the money. Let's get that straight. And I
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 2: was like, love it, love her, And really she wasn't
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: on season one because of like the whole swinging thing,
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: and then everybody got so popular that she was like, yeah,
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: sign me up for season.
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: Two, let's do it. I yeah, So Whitney is actually
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: talented and nice or not? She is kind of a villain,
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: although sometimes I the end of season four when it
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: was like, actually, Jen, that was kind of mean for
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: no reason, and she was like, I just really thought
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: that we could be two girls in California making this
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: work for our families and that we would have each
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: other for like that really got my heart.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, I forgot about that
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: fight between them.
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: So every once in a while, like Whitney tugs on
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: my heart strains of like how hard and isolating it
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: is to actually be talented when everyone else wishes they
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: were talented.
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: M hmm.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that that's something I thought from, but
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: it is a plight that I emphathized with.
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, I think. I mean, I think what
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 2: is not really given a lot of attention to is
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 2: that like Macy was a D one athlete and then
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: she had an injury. Yeah, like because they talk about
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: it with the pickleball and the like tennis, Like she
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: played tennis and I think she had an injury or
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 2: maybe she got pregnant, so then like her career was over.
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 2: I think there was an injury. So you're like, so
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: you were at the top of your game and Whitney
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: did dance at UIU, I think, And so you're like,
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: you are all talented people who were doing a lot
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: of things and now you're famous for this thing. I
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: don't know, it's fascinating.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and everyone who's a housewife or housewife a Jason
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: on Bravo gets to be a DJ at some point.
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 2: Ooh yeah, well okay, but so that idea that like
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: Whitney and Macy at least were like high in the
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: things that they were doing, and these women are bringing
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 2: like collateral. It just is that other part where you're like,
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: you need the women of your show to be the
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: highest achievers, have a huge following before you give them
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 2: a show. You need them to bring your own capital,
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: to their own capital as well. But the men get
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 2: to bring they're absolute nothing, and we're gonna reword that
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 2: and give them money because they're getting paid per episode.
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 2: So like, oh, anyway.
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: Well, what do you think we've learned from season Let's
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: do our wrap up? What do you what do you
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: think was our big come to Jesus' lesson about season four?
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 2: Okay, I think my takeaway from season four is that
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 2: I can't trust the media to do any sort of bedding,
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 2: and I can't assume that what I'm being fed I
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 2: should eat, if that makes sense. Like, I think I
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 2: have been passive in consuming some of this social media,
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 2: like some of these shows and the darkness that they
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: really have in them. I don't know if I and
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: keep signing up for it.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: What do you manifest for either the Wives, Hulu, Taylor Us,
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: the audience?
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, you know, for the audience, I guess I'm manifesting
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 2: nuanced that we can hold two very complicated things in
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 2: our brains at once and not have our head explode.
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: And I'm manifesting just some escapism from our reality that
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 2: we can find like a little bit a piece and
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 2: a break from the news and how messy everything is
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 2: in real life and that, Yeah, that's that's what I got.
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: What about you?
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: What am I MANIFESTI? I would like for seer A
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: Miller to be able to eat West Wilson's head off
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: of the Summerhouse Reunion like a praying Meantis, but that
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: probably won't happen. So instead, I'm going to hope that
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: Jesse gets a really good divorce lawyer and I do
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: get really Bufonte extensions out of it.
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 2: I love this I want that for you.
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: She has enough money to get the best of the
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: best divorce lawyers, so girl, do it. Yeah, don't be
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: scared because your prenup isn't binding. If you find the
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: right lawyer, they'll get around it.
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean yeah with the whole The cost
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 2: of divorce is a whole other podcast.
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh god, do you have anything to plug? And
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: you should because your patreon is full of really great
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: book and pop culture takes and graphics.
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Yes, I just launched my own Patreon.
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: It is called Coffee Break with K the Letter K,
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 2: and I'm there talking about my current obsessions when I'm
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 2: watching what I'm reading. And I also my tears are
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 2: more fun treats. So if you want book RECs for
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: me or if you want fun mail, those are my
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 2: Patreon tiers. But the articles are all free.
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 1: Lindy West was the third prog in that tripecta of
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: things that made me mad that week.
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 2: Oh that was it?
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: Oh, yes, that was yeah. As I was plugging your patreon,
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: your article, your articles on Lindy West's new memoir. Yeah,
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: it's a podcast episode in and of itself, and I'm
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: terrified to do it.
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, and then also maybe like the Lena
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 2: Dunham of it all, because that is also blowing up.
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, tolerators, you know the deal it's been. I've tolerated
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: pod on Instagram, Natlee K one two four on TikTok
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: and Instagram too. Make sure to check out our Patreon
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: leak in the show notes because I'm dropping lore in
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: the blogs. Sometimes I'm posting my jokes if they're too
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: dark to perform in public. And we have a bonus
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: episode for our higher tier where I'm actually staying current
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: with the misogyny of the times and reporting on it,
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 1: like I actually get to be a news spokesperson for
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 1: all of the bullshit that we have to endure because
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: the media is not doing it, so I'll I'll just
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: do it. Let's see, for Desper Housewives, I said that
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: I made fun of the olympian who used being an
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: olympian to try and get the girlfriend back that he
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: cheated on, and I just call him a moron for
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: like fifteen minutes, I'm like, this moron. Another man I've
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: made fun of is Timothy Chalamay for hating ballet.
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 2: It deserves to be made fun of you.
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: To me, Tay. You could have just been a weird
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: little guy that I supported and I did during your
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: indie and Greta phase, and now you're like, I'm the
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: best there's ever been, and I hate you. I just
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: hate you, in case that's not clear. Yeah, and I
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: remember tolerators. You don't have to smile through anything you're tolerating,
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 1: including chucking a really gross soda full of coffee creamer
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: while also watching a woman throw away her chance of
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: being the Bachelorette. Smiles are for joy.