Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Nobody "Has The Power" In An Unhappy Marriage

Transcript

Nobody "Has The Power" In An Unhappy Marriage · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi everybody and welcome to the Doctor Psych Mom Show.
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  Today I am going to do a topic that was requested in one of my
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  Facebook Live. So if you follow me on Facebook
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  then you'll always know when those happen.
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  They're random. I don't schedule them.
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  And I had done a video about how a man could reframe his wife's
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  sexual rejection so that he didn't think of her as having
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  all the power. And I said, what power?
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  She doesn't want that power. It's so awkward and terrible.
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  It feels horrible to reject somebody, you know?
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  It makes her feel awkward and weird.
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  And it's just like having to say no to like somebody's meal when
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  you're not hungry. Like it's just like you wish you
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  were but you're not. And women that don't understand
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  responsive desire, don't think there's any possibility for them
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  to like it if they try or etcetera, etcetera.
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  And so then somebody said that I should do a podcast about power
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  because it was such a popular video and I said nobody has the
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  power in an unhappy marriage. And somebody said that that was
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  a good quote. So basically this whole podcast
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  is crowdsourced, is what I'm trying to tell you.
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  So we will delve right into all of this about power and an
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  unhappy marriage and sexual rejection and emotional
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  rejection right after I tell you to subscribe, because I have
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  over 150 extra episodes If you guys do subscribe and and
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  they're great, so, OK, so where are we?
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  So then what are we thinking about here?
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  The idea that one person has power and the other person
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  doesn't in a marriage is kind of this victim perpetrator ideology
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  that I really want to dispel with this podcast.
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  So let's take the woman, the woman who rejects the man.
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  So the man thinks that she. And this is not every man like
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  these are mostly obviously preoccupied attachment or
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  fearful, avoidant, very anxious men, men who have not been
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  trained to think good things about women or about
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  relationships because that's who fixates on power.
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  You know, So when people identify as incels, right.
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  If you ever read that long manifesto of Elliot Rodgers,
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  there was a lot of feeling victimized by the world and by
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  attractive women and by cool men and not being able to partake in
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  things that he should have, you know, gotten.
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  And so there's a lot of that kind of thinking, certainly not
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  to the level that somebody's going to go do a shooting spree,
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  but for for guys who struggle in their marriages with with
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  sexless marriage and very few marriages, 10 to 15% of
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  marriages are sexless. So to get into one, you've got
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  to think about why. And that's a lot of what I talk
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  about, right? And usually why is 'cause you
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  saw a really bad marriage growing up, you have very low
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  self esteem and you you have no idea basically that there could
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  be a happy marriage. You don't even know what that
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  would look like. That's why I record episodes
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  like what is a healthy sex life look like?
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  And what is post honeymoon stage look like for happy couples,
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  right? Because if you don't, if you
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  were not raised in a normal kind of house, if things were very
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  dysfunctional between your parents and you didn't see a
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  healthy relationship, then you have no idea that that's even
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  possible. So that's who thinks like this?
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  And those guys think they have no, they don't understand their
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  wife at all, pretty much. I mean that is that is very
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  apparent. It's so apparent in in couples
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  counseling and individual counseling that men who are
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  very, very unhappy with their marriages do not understand
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  women. And frequently that is because
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  they, you know, didn't have a, a home life where a woman was
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  really talking to them, Their wife, their mother, rather, was
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  not really talking about her emotions or she was talking
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  about very negative views about men and relationships, etcetera.
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  And so he did not have a healthy female role model that he
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  learned to understand, which is why I have a post that said
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  mother is to help your son understand women, share your
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  feelings with him, something like that.
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  So anyway, so these men don't really understand women at all.
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  These are the men that I I think I help a lot because a lot of
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  them write in and tell me. I do.
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  And of course my clients tell me I do.
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  But these men, it's almost like they've never listened to a
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  woman talk about her feelings. And they have.
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  And and the women that they find, by the way, don't talk
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  about their feelings. So it's not as though they're
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  unable to pick up on something that's directly stated.
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  They are not drawn to women who talk about their feelings.
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  And women who talk about their feelings are not drawn to them.
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  They are very, very scared of intimacy.
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  And so are the women that they find.
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  They would still like it. They still crave it.
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  But frequently the women that they're with don't like it and
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  don't crave it. And that's why originally they
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  they met. They were what I call the
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  gentleman Eunuch. And you can into my podcast on
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  that. And by the way, when I talk
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  about sexless marriages in general, I am not talking about
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  when people are 70 years old and the woman is long, long past
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  menopause and things hurt her and she just can't really do it.
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  And they mostly cuddle. And then sometimes things get a
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  little bit sexual like that. That is like that.
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  That could happen after decades of a great sex life.
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  I'm talking about people who have been pretty sexless or low
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  sex or low touch from the end of the honeymoon stage pretty much.
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  And in my other episodes on menopause and aging, I talk
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  about the other kind of couple. But here I'm talking more about,
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  you know, the sexless couple where where the guy's like in
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  his 40s, you know, So anyway. Or 50s or something like that.
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  Or 30s. There's man, if you go to the
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  dead bedroom Reddit, there's guys in their 20s staying in
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  dead bedrooms, right. And so it it's all it, it starts
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  really young. So the the point here is that
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  these guys have no idea what the woman thinks.
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  It's a long way to say that. And so therefore they assume
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  that it that the woman must be experiencing some sort of
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  gratification or power from being the one that is always
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  pursued and gets to reject people.
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  Almost like the power from like being a movie star and producer
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  comes to you and says I'd like to offer you millions of dollars
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  to make a movie. And they say, well, I know, I
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  don't think so. I'm holding out for 10s of
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  millions of dollars from a producer I like better.
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  Ha ha. You know, I mean it.
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  It's like almost like a a, a fable like this.
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  It's like a fairy tale sort of interaction, very, very, not
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  real, you know, very, very fake. What they have in their mind is
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  that the woman is somehow happy about this, like so.
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  So that's why the guy said, how can I get myself around this
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  feeling that she's experiencing like this, this power, like
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  that, this is a powerful thing for her and that therefore she
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  has all the power. So I will really go into the
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  mind for you right now of what this woman feels when she
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  rejects her husband if she is like, I don't know, at least 95%
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  of women who reject their husband if she is like a
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  narcissist or a sociopath. Again, I've told you narcissists
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  are only 1.7% of people likelihood of your, you know,
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  significant other being one or very low or sociopaths even
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  lower. Right.
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  So probably not right. Probably she's just an avoidant
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  woman. So go back to the Avoidant Wives
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  podcast. Here's what she's thinking.
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  Oh no, Oh no. I hope he doesn't initiate
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  tonight. I don't want to have sex.
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  Why does everything have to be about sex?
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  I don't even like coming home anymore.
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  My fantasies are about getting away and living in a little
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  apartment all by myself where nobody tries to touch me.
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  I did a podcast about that recently, about the fantasy of
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  being completely alone. I I'm gonna go upstairs.
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  I'm gonna pretend to be asleep. If I pretend to be asleep, then
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  that is uncomfortable to do. But but but maybe then he won't
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  initiate it. It's horrible.
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  When he initiates it, 'cause I have to say no, 'cause I have no
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  desire. And so it it's so awkward.
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  He feels bad and he sulks and he punishes me.
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  He really punishes me and he sulks and he makes it miserable
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  for me and for the children. God, I wish that sex didn't
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  exist. I feel so trapped.
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  That's what she thinks. That's exactly what she thinks.
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  You know, I mean, I talked to enough women that I know that's
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  what she thinks. And so when women don't under
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  so. So a couple of things.
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  First of all, she may be so she may even be asexual.
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  So you could listen to my podcast on asexual or she may be
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  so unattracted to you. Or she may hate sex so much.
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  And she and and even if she knew about responsive desire, it
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  doesn't work all the time. By the way, I should make a
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  podcast literally called Responsive Desire.
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  It doesn't work all the time because like I say that, but
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  people somehow think that. What I mean still is that if you
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  massage your wife or you start making out with your wife, she
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  just has to basically wait out five to 10 minutes and she's
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  always going to be turned on. No, she's not.
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  No, she's not. But anyway, sometimes she is
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  though with responsive desire, right?
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  So sometimes if she starts kissing and touching, etcetera,
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  etcetera, she can experience desire, but you got to be in the
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  right headspace for that. And if a woman doesn't even know
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  about that is really sex negative, if not asexual and and
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  that is low, those rates are low too.
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  That's 1% of people. So likelihood of her being
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  asexual is low, but basically she's probably sex negative and
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  low libido. And there's been so much
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  animosity and bitterness between you guys over the years over
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  sex. And she's she thinks of sex as
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  this horrible thing, the worst part of the marriage, the fact
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  that you want it. And she doesn't.
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  She doesn't understand why you can't just take care of things
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  yourself. She would even be OK, probably
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  with some kind of an arrangement, as I've discussed
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  so many times, many women say, why don't you just go sleep with
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  somebody? And the guy says no because he
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  wants sex within his marriage, which I totally understand.
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  However, the woman thinks of sex is so meaningless and so
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  upsetting to her. It's as though she's like, hates
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  tennis. And you keep saying the only way
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  you could play tennis is with her.
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  You can't get another tennis partner.
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  You can't stop playing tennis. You have to play tennis.
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  You have to play tennis a lot, and it has to be with her and
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  she has to like it. You'd be like, fuck you.
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  But I don't like tennis. I mean, hopefully, if you're
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  like a nice person, you're reading my stuff and listening
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  to my podcast, maybe you tried some tennis, you know, every so
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  often. But my point is that most people
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  can understand that analogy, right?
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  Or if your hobby is is glass jewelry making, as I told you in
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  another podcast that I did when I was trying to talk about male
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  versus female hobbies. And then you said to your
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  husband you have to come with me.
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  Every time I go to a glass jewelry making workshop, you
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  have to come, you have to come and you have to like it.
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  In fact, you have to start wearing jewelry too, because
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  otherwise I wouldn't be sure that you would like it.
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  That's what it's like when men, you know, tell the woman that's
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  how it feels to the woman. When the man says, not only do I
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  want you to want to to have sex, but actually can't act like a
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  starfish anymore, she's like, that was the only way I was
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  goddamn powering through. It was pretending it wasn't
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  happening. close your eyes and think of England.
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  What? You're taking that away from me
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  too, You know, So my point here is not that that's where the
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  conversation should end. It's that women who are married
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  to men who want more sex than they want to give never feel
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  powerful. They do not feel powerful.
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  This is this is not a thing. So maybe looking at it
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  differently would help you, as it does for so many of my
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  clients. We're like, holy shit, she hates
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  this. She's actually as unhappy as me.
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  She is as unhappy as I am. I'm not having giddy sex.
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  She's having sex, maybe literally, like, I don't know,
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  10 times a year and she still hates it.
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  Holy shit, what would that be like, man?
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  I guess we'd be like, the inverse of how bad I feel.
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  Same bad, but for a different reason.
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  She doesn't feel power, so the anger comes from thinking that
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  the woman is enjoying her life more than you're enjoying your
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  life. She's not.
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  She's not enjoying her life every day.
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  That she doesn't have sex is not a good day because she knows
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  that she's disappointing you. She knows that you are going to
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  sulk. She knows that you are going to
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  be irritable. She knows that this is not the
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  marriage that you want. She knows there may be a ticking
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  time bomb until she has to deal with it in some other way.
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  You know, and based on the reason for her not wanting sex
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  and based on how self aware she is, this could be myriad thing.
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  She may be trying to wait it out until the kids are old enough
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  that she could leave because she thinks that the children deserve
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  an intact family and both adults being miserable should not come
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  before the children being happy. Many women think like that.
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  Remember here that she's miserable too.
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  Remember that and which is basically the point of this.
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  Or she may think that her sex drive will somehow come back
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  when the children are in school or they get older.
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  Or this that the other right it. It may, but you know, that's a
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  low chance it does for some people.
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  For some sex positive people it does because the as I said, like
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  same with tour play. Like for people who like sex,
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  having more time means you have more sex.
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  But for people who don't like sex, having more time means that
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  you do other shit, not have more sex.
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  But either way, these women are not sitting there saying, oh
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  yippee, I'm so glad I have all the power in this marriage and
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  now I have to deal with my husband's bullshit because we
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  don't have sex. And every time that a sex scene
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  comes on and anything we're watching on TV, my stomach has
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  to twist out of awkwardness and Oh my God, he's going to try to
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  touch me or kiss me. And I have to make sure that he
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  knows that we're not going to have sex.
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  So I guess I got to pull away from that.
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  So I can't even enjoy hugging and kissing anymore because this
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  sex thing is so big and disgusting and and terrible
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  between US, and it's like the worst part of my life.
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  That's how they think, for real. And if you're a woman listening
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  to this, and this has been how you've thought, send this to
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  your husband so he understands now you might say, well, then
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  what then? Does it just end there?
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  Of course not. But the first step of couples
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  counseling? This is not couples counseling.
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  I'm just helping you understand each other, like I might do in
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  couples counseling in a first stage is understanding each
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  other, empathy. You can't be angry at somebody
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  else who's suffering. It's really hard.
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  It's really hard. And she feels like she can't
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  have sex with you. She feels disgusting.
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  You know, I just watched the movie.
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  I don't want to ruin a fear, but cat person, the the story was, I
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  thought a lot better than the movie, which went over the top.
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  But if you want to see a sex scene of ways that women reasons
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  that women have sex when they're really don't like the guy and
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  they're not in the mood, then watch that and it goes, does her
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  whole internal monologue. And it could be useful for many
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  men to understand why a woman would persevere through sex in
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  the dating stages. And then in, in this case, you
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  know it, they didn't get married.
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  But some people married that guy because he is a nice guy and he
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  is a good guy. They don't really like sex
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  anyway. And so if they have to power
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  through something, they're young, they're in the honeymoon
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  stage, And so, you know, it feels not that bad.
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  It feels not bad, neutral. Then as they get older, their
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  hormones drop and there's so much bitterness and the guy
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  starts to be unhappy with the sex that they do provide.
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  It feels just like impossible, A bridge too far.
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  So this is when people have to really get educated about what
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  sex can be and what can't be, and they have to go into depth
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  about what works and what doesn't.
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  What do they like? What doesn't work?
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  Trying and practicing to get over certain areas of neo
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  phobia, such as touch or kiss. The man has to learn more about
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  what he's doing right and wrong, usually wrong in the bedroom.
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  The woman has to be educated about responsive desire.
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  Only once we've tried a bunch of things can we ever really
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  conclude that a marriage is unsalvageable in that regard,
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  And that's not common. Of course, not every couple
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  stays together, right? And of course, a lot of couples
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  don't end up having more sex, but most of them do.
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  At the beginning of couples therapy, I'll tell you that most
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  of them have a good little run at least, and then some people
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  continue that forever. The ones that stay on forever,
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  you know, they wax and wane and wax and wane and then
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  eventually, hopefully they get to a stable place, like we have
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  sex regularly. It's, you know, not as much as
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  he would want and it's not never like we used to do.
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  So let's say it's like once a week, once every other week,
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  which is a hell of an improvement for a lot of people.
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  But they can only do that and even start trying all of those
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  things more practically once they basically understand the
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  other person on a deep level, which is some of what I try to
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  promote, obviously with my this podcast, among other podcast
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  posts, et cetera. All right, Well, I hope that you
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  understand that your wife does not feel powerful when she
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  rejects you. And then in fact, it feels
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  terrible to her. And then my work here is done
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  and I will talk to you all soon and join the secret Facebook
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  group and have a great day, guys.
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  Oh, and a rare PS for me, going back to the whole nobody has a
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  power and an unhappy marriage. Women think this same kind of
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  cognitive distortion as well, that a man who's not being
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  romantic has all the power and he's thinking, oh ha ha, you
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  know, I got somebody to take care of the kids and to have sex
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  when I want and I don't even have to take her on a date.
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  I win. No one is thinking that except
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  if it's literally like a sociopath character from like a
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  a a women's chiclet book. I mean nobody fucking nobody
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  thinks like that right? And barely anybody.
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  So what he is thinking is I don't like romance.
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  What is she even talking about? Every time an occasion comes up
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  I know she's going to cry. This is the worst part of our
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  relationship. I never even know what she wants
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  me to do. She puts me in a no win
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  situation. When I do try to get her a gift,
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  it's always the wrong gift. Doesn't she know I've never been
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  Mr. Romantic? Exactly the same.
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  Exactly the same. He feels powerless too.
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  Nobody feels powerful in an unhappy marriage.
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  Both people suffer, whether it has to do with sex, romance,
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  any, anything at all. All right, Hope you like that.
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  PS Bye guys.