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What is Real? · Life In Flow Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Life In Flow podcast.
0:03
SPEAKER_01: The three of us, Yulia, Polina and Irina, are exploring what Life In Flow and Flow In Life is.
0:12
SPEAKER_03: Join us as we experiment, test our diverse hypotheses and have fun in the process.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: Will we find an answer?
0:23
SPEAKER_01: This isn't just an intellectual discussion.
0:26
SPEAKER_01: We're co-creating a shared field beyond words.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: We're attuning to what emerges moment by moment so that
0:35
SPEAKER_01: the conversation itself becomes a group flow experience.
0:39
SPEAKER_03: And we invite you to become an active participant in this experiment.
0:45
SPEAKER_03: There will be pauses and moments of silence.
0:48
SPEAKER_03: We leave them on purpose because this is where magic happens.
0:54
SPEAKER_02: Go beyond the intellectual information.
0:57
SPEAKER_02: Listen with your whole body.
1:00
SPEAKER_02: and notice how your somatic experience shifts in the process.
1:05
SPEAKER_02: Share with us what reveals itself in the space where mind, body and energy flow together.
1:15
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to another episode of the Life In Flow podcast.
1:24
SPEAKER_02: I'm Yulia facilitating today's episode.
1:28
SPEAKER_02: And my co-hosts Irina and Polina are also here And if you are watching this episode
1:41
SPEAKER_02: on YouTube You might be wondering What strange outfits Why do they look like that?
1:51
SPEAKER_02: And if it makes you curious, those who are listening Do check us out on YouTube
1:58
SPEAKER_02: And I will explain a little bit about the outfits later.
2:03
SPEAKER_02: But for now I'll just say that the topic or the question that we are exploring today
2:11
SPEAKER_02: in this episode is what is real.
2:17
SPEAKER_02: And so the outfits or the personas that we have brought with us today have something
2:22
SPEAKER_02: to do with that.
2:24
SPEAKER_02: But before I continue and explain,
2:27
SPEAKER_02: let me just give you a little bit of background of how the topic
2:31
SPEAKER_02: for this episode came about.
2:38
SPEAKER_02: A little more than a month ago,
2:40
SPEAKER_02: I had an epic adventure and traveled to California from Berlin for three weeks.
2:50
SPEAKER_02: I got to meet
2:52
SPEAKER_02: Polina in person for the first time in California.
2:57
SPEAKER_02: So it was really cool to hang out.
3:00
SPEAKER_02: And then for two weeks I was in a desert, Ansa Borrego Desert.
3:07
SPEAKER_02: And the name of that adventure was Vision Quest and another name was an Underworld Journey.
3:17
SPEAKER_02: so the two weeks that we spent in the desert we switched almost
3:31
SPEAKER_02: but not completely out of the waking consciousness the language and
3:39
SPEAKER_02: the our state they were
3:42
SPEAKER_02: informed by dreams,
3:45
SPEAKER_02: by imagination,
3:46
SPEAKER_02: by poetry,
3:48
SPEAKER_02: by being in communion with Anza Borrego herself,
3:54
SPEAKER_02: with its beings, with the creatures.
4:01
SPEAKER_02: So it was quite a unique experience unlike any other I had had before.
4:09
SPEAKER_02: And interestingly enough,
4:13
SPEAKER_02: A lot of things were happening in a different way because we were in another state
4:19
SPEAKER_02: of consciousness.
4:21
SPEAKER_02: Yet when I returned,
4:25
SPEAKER_02: those things that happened,
4:29
SPEAKER_02: they shifted my waking life and what I am,
4:35
SPEAKER_02: who I am in the waking consciousness a lot in
4:40
SPEAKER_02: Very deep, profound ways some of the changes that have been difficult before.
4:46
SPEAKER_02: And no change is permanent also,
4:48
SPEAKER_02: so I'm not,
4:50
SPEAKER_02: you know,
4:52
SPEAKER_02: I guess too optimistic about them or,
4:56
SPEAKER_02: you know, thinking that they will just stay and never go away.
4:59
SPEAKER_02: But anyway, this made me think, okay, we were doing a lot of dreaming there.
5:09
SPEAKER_02: And yet the dreaming did a lot of very materialistic, I would say, waking consciousness shifts.
5:23
SPEAKER_02: And I started asking myself, what is real?
5:28
SPEAKER_02: And it's a question that I had been asking myself before because I have been having
5:36
SPEAKER_02: a really hard time integrating my
5:42
SPEAKER_02: Urge to go to inhabit you know the dreaming worlds more openly I would say and
5:49
SPEAKER_02: the underworld more openly at the same time you know being grounded in this
5:55
SPEAKER_02: in this waking reality so that's you know where the question is coming from and
6:01
SPEAKER_02: the question is really big what is real because there are so many layers
6:05
SPEAKER_02: and there are so many ways that you can approach this question so what I
6:10
SPEAKER_02: An intention that I have for tonight is just initial exploration.
6:17
SPEAKER_02: And this is a topic I think I want to explore deeper depending on, you know, what happens today.
6:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:28
SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, the personas that we're inhabiting today
6:38
SPEAKER_02: which are different from our usual personas.
6:40
SPEAKER_02: It's also a play with this notion or with this idea that there is something real,
6:48
SPEAKER_02: something not real, or what is that real and what is that not real?
6:53
SPEAKER_02: I don't have any answers.
6:54
SPEAKER_02: It's just a playful way, I guess, that one of the ways that we are going to be exploring this.
7:03
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so with that, we will start.
7:06
SPEAKER_02: and we'll start as usual with a game and for now we'll just each of us will say
7:18
SPEAKER_02: a phrase where real is part of the phrase like this can't be real right and
7:28
SPEAKER_02: then we'll just transform the phrase each of us
7:34
SPEAKER_02: So let's say Polina says, ah, that can't be real.
7:38
SPEAKER_02: And, you know,
7:38
SPEAKER_02: we'll do the same phrase,
7:39
SPEAKER_02: but just in a completely,
7:43
SPEAKER_02: you know, different tone or with gestures, something like that.
7:48
SPEAKER_02: So we just kind of like playing with the word itself real.
7:54
SPEAKER_02: And each of us will do just one phrase.
7:58
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
8:02
SPEAKER_02: I can start.
8:06
SPEAKER_00: Is it for real?
8:15
SPEAKER_00: Is it for real?
8:22
SPEAKER_00: Is it for real?
8:31
SPEAKER_03: Do we change or do we go with the same phrase?
8:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we change.
8:34
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
8:38
SPEAKER_03: Is it real or is it all happening in my head?
8:47
SPEAKER_02: Is it real?
8:48
SPEAKER_02: Or is it all happening in my head?
9:02
SPEAKER_01: Is it real or is it all happening in my head?
9:23
SPEAKER_00: Is it real or is it true?
9:40
SPEAKER_03: Is it real or is it true?
9:51
SPEAKER_00: Is it real or is it true?
9:57
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
10:06
SPEAKER_02: That was fun.
10:07
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
10:07
SPEAKER_02: It was.
10:09
SPEAKER_02: Okay, now we're going to have another game.
10:13
SPEAKER_02: We'll go to the questions.
10:16
SPEAKER_02: And it has to do with the persona that we have created for ourselves.
10:22
SPEAKER_02: And the first part of the game is I invite each of us just kind of to describe matter of factly.
10:34
SPEAKER_02: What artifacts are there?
10:37
SPEAKER_02: How did you create your persona?
10:41
SPEAKER_02: So it's not going to be about a lot of imagination or really inhabiting.
10:49
SPEAKER_02: It's more, okay, this is how I have assembled my persona.
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SPEAKER_02: Like I have this and this and this and here I am.
10:59
SPEAKER_02: So it doesn't have to be long but I just want this to be grounded
11:04
SPEAKER_02: in what's called waking reality I can start just to give an example Hi,
11:12
SPEAKER_02: so today I am wearing this hat and this is a hat I would never wear in my life It's
11:23
SPEAKER_02: a cowboy hat that I brought from that trip to California from
11:29
SPEAKER_02: a gold mining town but actually the more I'm wearing it the more I'm liking it
11:37
SPEAKER_02: and I'm also here with my bushcraft knife this is my brand and
11:54
SPEAKER_02: it's a quite like a sturdy knife you can do a lot of things in the forest
12:00
SPEAKER_02: with it you can cut trees you can dig but it can spoil and I also haven't
12:17
SPEAKER_02: Worn this poncho, I guess.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: Never.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: This is the first time I'm wearing it.
12:25
SPEAKER_02: It has been in my wardrobe for three, four, five years.
12:31
SPEAKER_02: Who knows?
12:33
SPEAKER_02: And I'm not yet quite sure what it is that didn't quite agree with my usual persona about this.
12:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I'm here in this cowboy hat with my knife and with this kind
12:58
SPEAKER_02: of feminine red cloak, I would even say.
13:06
SPEAKER_03: I'm a woman in red.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: I am.
13:12
SPEAKER_03: Okay, well, I'm wearing red lipstick.
13:17
SPEAKER_03: which I don't do usually not because I'm afraid of red lipstick
13:23
SPEAKER_03: but I just don't like how it looks on me I also like painted my lips
13:31
SPEAKER_03: a little bit wider than they are just like to create the effect of more lips
13:38
SPEAKER_03: and I painted my eyes differently so I have
13:50
SPEAKER_03: I don't remember the terms how they call it
13:53
SPEAKER_03: that it's like I have let's call it trickster's eyes and I have also sort
14:01
SPEAKER_03: of two horns yes thank you I was trying to remember
14:10
SPEAKER_03: the name yes I am wearing two horns made of my hair
14:19
SPEAKER_03: which is something that I could wear maybe even 10 years ago but at
14:25
SPEAKER_03: a certain point I decided that I'm too old for this shit Are they horns
14:32
SPEAKER_01: or they're buns?
14:33
SPEAKER_01: Did you mean?
14:35
SPEAKER_03: They're buns but they look like horns Yeah, okay And they're asymmetric which was I was not
14:46
SPEAKER_03: Going for a symmetry on purpose but it happened this way
14:50
SPEAKER_03: and I thought okay I usually really try to look more elegant
14:54
SPEAKER_03: and you know like beautiful so I said you're like this air of not
15:10
SPEAKER_03: Caring about my looks would serve the purpose.
15:16
SPEAKER_03: I also wear a choker in the style of something gothic, which is not my style at all.
15:26
SPEAKER_03: And a black sweatshirt.
15:31
SPEAKER_03: And I haven't been wearing black since I was a teenager.
15:39
SPEAKER_03: So it's like sort of the combination of things
15:42
SPEAKER_03: that I never do these days I am wearing a long black dress with a slit and
15:58
SPEAKER_01: with feathers that is open here
16:08
SPEAKER_01: And I'm also nurturing this little feather bag next to me I'm not wearing my glasses
16:22
SPEAKER_01: because this persona doesn't wear glasses and I don't have contacts
16:28
SPEAKER_01: So you're all very fuzzy
16:33
SPEAKER_01: And I am wearing sneakers that I would never pair with a dress like this
16:37
SPEAKER_01: Nor would I wear a dress like this Even though Yulia thought that this is
16:41
SPEAKER_01: a normal persona for me But it is not I wouldn't wear a dress
16:46
SPEAKER_01: with feathers Maybe now I would Because of my connection with birds recently But not
16:53
SPEAKER_01: in the past No, this would not be something I adorn myself with Hmm
17:04
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so thank you for this introduction which was just kind of about describing in
17:11
SPEAKER_02: the waking terms what it is that visually we have on us.
17:18
SPEAKER_02: And so in the second part of the game I want to invite you to go more and share a story of
17:33
SPEAKER_02: That Persona That You Are Inhabiting And It Can Start For Example With
17:42
SPEAKER_02: The Words I Am The One Who Or It Can Start Or It Can Be A Story Of You In
17:54
SPEAKER_02: The First Person Place Face Person But Everything Is First
18:03
SPEAKER_02: So I'm wearing this leather boots and I'm opening the door of a pub with
18:22
SPEAKER_02: a kick off my leg and I'm coming with a lot of determination
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SPEAKER_02: So whatever your story,
18:34
SPEAKER_02: you know,
18:36
SPEAKER_02: I want you to,
18:36
SPEAKER_02: it doesn't have to be grounded in this reality,
18:44
SPEAKER_02: meaning like where you're sitting now,
18:47
SPEAKER_02: but it has to be real for you to some extent,
18:50
SPEAKER_02: in some ways it has to be real with you, for you.
19:01
SPEAKER_02: And it can be real in terms of, again,
19:04
SPEAKER_02: you know,
19:04
SPEAKER_02: some characteristics or something that affects your core that happens
19:14
SPEAKER_02: when these pure physical things are there.
19:21
SPEAKER_02: Okay, I can try.
19:22
SPEAKER_02: Because I haven't done it myself.
19:26
SPEAKER_02: I haven't tested this.
19:33
SPEAKER_02: I'm just the woman who's so daring.
19:44
SPEAKER_02: You know, if I want something, I just go for it.
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SPEAKER_02: Even if it means that I'm gonna kick that door with my leg.
20:02
SPEAKER_02: My knife is always with me.
20:06
SPEAKER_02: I haven't used it once,
20:10
SPEAKER_02: but it's just something that is always there to remind me who I am
20:20
SPEAKER_02: and what I am capable of.
20:32
SPEAKER_02: I'm wild and nothing can stop me.
20:46
SPEAKER_03: I believed you.
20:49
SPEAKER_01: Bravo!
21:01
SPEAKER_03: Polina, do you want to go?
21:02
SPEAKER_03: No.
21:03
SPEAKER_02: Irочка, go.
21:07
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
21:09
SPEAKER_03: I am the one who doesn't care about the rules and who doesn't care about the others
21:21
SPEAKER_03: and what they think of me and what they want and what they do because I do.
21:29
SPEAKER_03: whatever I want to do whenever I want to do it and if what I feel like is to destroy
21:46
SPEAKER_03: the world just for the sake of the fun of it I will do it because because I can
22:03
SPEAKER_03: I am the one who will use my sensuality
22:36
SPEAKER_01: to get what I want I will be so soft and gentle and I will invite you in to my world
22:48
SPEAKER_01: of pleasure and desire I will turn you on to everything that I want
23:02
SPEAKER_01: and you will give it to me
23:07
SPEAKER_01: And I will pretend to be a gentle little bird Oh,
23:13
SPEAKER_01: so gentle and so soft You're going to think
23:18
SPEAKER_01: that I wear dresses like this every day You're going to think I have
23:24
SPEAKER_01: a whole wardrobe of these kinds of items You're going to want to contribute to
23:30
SPEAKER_01: that wardrobe
23:43
SPEAKER_02: You have almost lured me in I very much felt like contributing to wardrobe Where's my wallet?
24:01
SPEAKER_02: Oh thank you girls thanks for playing so I guess my first question is just
24:14
SPEAKER_02: an invitation to reflect on that experience and so we started
24:22
SPEAKER_02: with just basically being real in many ways
24:31
SPEAKER_02: and then we were not real in many ways, but then in some ways we might have been real.
24:45
SPEAKER_02: So I just wonder if there's anything for you there after that game.
24:56
SPEAKER_03: Can you repeat the question?
24:58
SPEAKER_02: The question is any any reflection
25:01
SPEAKER_02: from you know like what was real what was not real and where real
25:09
SPEAKER_02: and not real overlap maybe so kind of like who are you
25:24
SPEAKER_02: who are you now is it are you someone who is
25:31
SPEAKER_02: you know like painted your lips or is there something more behind that what is real
25:40
SPEAKER_01: and what is not I felt like it was all real if I'm occupying a part of me even
25:51
SPEAKER_01: if it's not a part of me that comes out very often even if I'm pretending
25:57
SPEAKER_01: a little bit or I'm pushing my edge
26:00
SPEAKER_01: It's still real because I'm occupying that space in this point in time.
26:09
SPEAKER_01: So even if it's a persona, if I'm really occupying it, then it's real.
26:22
SPEAKER_01: And it was quite comfortable to play this little game.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: There is a part of me that's quite comfortable with this game.
26:31
SPEAKER_02: And I like it So it's as if an excuse for a part of you to come alive Yeah And
26:47
SPEAKER_02: the part of you or a part of you that comes alive interestingly
26:52
SPEAKER_02: that it needs something maybe not necessarily but this time within the context of
26:59
SPEAKER_02: the game
27:00
SPEAKER_02: it needed something um let's say an artifact an artifact which is a physical nature
27:12
SPEAKER_02: and that that artifact somehow took you to another state maybe to another state
27:21
SPEAKER_02: of consciousness maybe
27:24
SPEAKER_02: to another perceptual world i i'm i'm actually this is my speculation
27:31
SPEAKER_01: Well, can I adjust your speculation and tell you what's true for me?
27:38
SPEAKER_01: All of this was more for your benefit because I don't need this outfit to occupy this persona.
27:45
SPEAKER_01: But in order to sell you better on it, I need to give you the visuals.
27:52
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
27:53
SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you, Paulina.
27:53
SPEAKER_02: It was very gracious of you.
27:55
SPEAKER_02: I appreciate you playing along.
28:00
SPEAKER_01: The audience,
28:02
SPEAKER_01: you know,
28:04
SPEAKER_01: sometimes doesn't want to do the work of locating what exactly you're feeling.
28:09
SPEAKER_01: So it's easier to draw them in with the visuals.
28:15
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so the visuals for you don't really play your role.
28:22
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a bit of a flirt.
28:26
SPEAKER_01: So it helps with the flirt into the persona.
28:31
SPEAKER_01: But I could occupy this persona in,
28:33
SPEAKER_01: you know, jeans,
28:35
SPEAKER_01: in my pajamas if I wanted to But I don't know,
28:40
SPEAKER_01: we would have to experiment Next time I will come in my pajamas and I will go
28:44
SPEAKER_01: into this persona
28:45
SPEAKER_01: and we'll see how effective it is Maybe we should pause this recording and do
28:50
SPEAKER_02: an outfit change We will have another one on this topic,
28:55
SPEAKER_02: so for now we'll just continue So next time we'll do pajama party
29:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah but it's like it's true that even
29:06
SPEAKER_03: in theater enacting schools they have like two different directions one
29:16
SPEAKER_03: the Stanislavsky system which goes from within into like into the embodiment
29:24
SPEAKER_03: of what you first feel within and then there is the
29:29
SPEAKER_03: Totally opposite approach when you first use the artifacts to help you to embody
29:36
SPEAKER_03: the character that becomes so ingrained that you start being this character
29:44
SPEAKER_03: but you begin with the artifacts so both approaches are valid I for myself can say
29:56
SPEAKER_03: that
29:59
SPEAKER_03: There is a part of me which is very,
30:01
SPEAKER_03: you know,
30:02
SPEAKER_03: close now to the surface of my consciousness,
30:07
SPEAKER_03: like the waking awareness that doesn't believe the character that I played out.
30:17
SPEAKER_03: At the same time,
30:26
SPEAKER_03: I know and I'm not talking about the theoretical you know cognitive knowledge
30:33
SPEAKER_03: but I know in myself that this character is a part of me that you like
30:46
SPEAKER_03: that she exists in me somewhere very very deep within
30:57
SPEAKER_03: so I still have doubts regarding the how convincing I am in embodying my shadow mm-hmm
31:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but I assume for the three of us,
31:21
SPEAKER_02: the personas that we decided to inhabit to some extent are important, right?
31:29
SPEAKER_02: And maybe they are real to some extent and to some extent they're not yet
31:36
SPEAKER_02: or they're not already.
31:39
SPEAKER_01: You would have had to change the assignment for us to pick a persona that is
31:47
SPEAKER_01: either not existent or like very inaccessible
31:53
SPEAKER_01: then I probably would have picked something else yeah but
31:57
SPEAKER_02: that wasn't my idea my idea was just to start experimenting
32:02
SPEAKER_02: so maybe you know we'll experiment with personas
32:05
SPEAKER_02: and theatric um theatrics more one day um
32:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah for me you know like impersonating and being really real with artifacts
32:30
SPEAKER_02: but also with with how I speak if I'm being that or playing
32:49
SPEAKER_02: Playing with some real situations like,
32:54
SPEAKER_02: you know, walking with my knife somewhere, knowing that my knife is with me.
33:02
SPEAKER_02: It's just somehow such a powerful way of getting that persona.
33:15
SPEAKER_02: I want something from
33:17
SPEAKER_02: to be more alive and to be more part of my like real waking life, I guess.
33:37
SPEAKER_02: So my my next question is what is real and what is not real?
33:49
SPEAKER_02: and specifically I want to start with things like sometimes
34:01
SPEAKER_02: or actually not sometimes but often brushed off
34:05
SPEAKER_02: as not very real like our imagination for example imagination that sometimes
34:15
SPEAKER_02: you know shows us some things whatever words images and if we're to make
34:22
SPEAKER_02: an important decision so like is really real enough
34:28
SPEAKER_02: for decision um our dreams maybe we did talk about intuition
34:40
SPEAKER_02: but anyway my question is
34:44
SPEAKER_02: what you see as real in your life from the different modalities
34:57
SPEAKER_02: that often are not considered real in the Western world.
35:07
SPEAKER_01: What do you mean exactly?
35:16
SPEAKER_02: I mean how real was something in your imagination let's say you were walking on
35:33
SPEAKER_02: the beach and there was a flash a word an image or whatever and
35:42
SPEAKER_02: then you come back are you gonna
35:44
SPEAKER_02: make a decision an important decision in your life about it or do you keep it in
35:51
SPEAKER_02: a separate place like what's the place what's how real is it
35:59
SPEAKER_02: for you how real it depends on how much you believe in it like that phrase
36:13
SPEAKER_03: How do you believe in it?
36:18
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so what does it mean to believe in it?
36:24
SPEAKER_03: What does it mean to believe in anything?
36:26
SPEAKER_03: You just believe that it's real.
36:29
SPEAKER_03: For you, it's the reality you occupy.
36:34
SPEAKER_03: The phrase that I used in our game,
36:36
SPEAKER_03: like, is it real or is it all happening in my head with the quote from Harry Potter?
36:43
SPEAKER_03: The witch for me or actually the answer from the Dumbledore was this is something
36:50
SPEAKER_03: that Harry asked Dumbledore when he dies and they meet in the limbo
36:56
SPEAKER_03: and in the end of that conversation I ask is it real or is it all happening just
37:02
SPEAKER_03: in my head and Dumbledore says of course it's all happening in your head but why
37:08
SPEAKER_03: or not should it mean that it's not real so
37:12
SPEAKER_03: when I read it I thought oh my god it describes my whole life and how I operate in
37:19
SPEAKER_03: the world because for me for my whole life my imagination and what
37:26
SPEAKER_03: is happening in my head has been always more real than the physical reality
37:34
SPEAKER_03: and am I capable of making a decision based
37:42
SPEAKER_03: on my imagination well I think I have been doing it for my whole life
37:46
SPEAKER_03: the problem is is and I call it a problem because like
37:53
SPEAKER_03: Something that we talked about and I mentioned a lot of times we're social beings
37:58
SPEAKER_03: and we're social animals so like we're not just occupy some reality we believe in
38:07
SPEAKER_03: which most probably is all an illusion but we occupy a shared illusion
38:15
SPEAKER_03: Something is shared, something is not.
38:21
SPEAKER_03: The less your illusion intersects with the illusion of the others,
38:26
SPEAKER_03: the more problems you may encounter with.
38:34
SPEAKER_03: When everyone says it's this one, but you go, no, it's a different way.
38:45
SPEAKER_03: Like you become excluded from the shared reality and even
38:52
SPEAKER_03: in this case like our capacity to believe in the illusion
39:07
SPEAKER_03: that is shared is something magnificent because
39:12
SPEAKER_03: I have read once about the experiment you know like this kind
39:18
SPEAKER_03: of social experiments they have been quite popular since I think 60s or 70s
39:24
SPEAKER_03: when they gather a group of people and they share they show them let's say
39:30
SPEAKER_03: a white cube and they ask them what color of is this cube
39:37
SPEAKER_03: So like there is only one the real subject of the experiment all the rest are actors
39:43
SPEAKER_03: so all the actors one by one say that it's black so the real subject of
39:49
SPEAKER_03: the experiment always answers the last one and in the majority
39:54
SPEAKER_03: of cases there are people who can like sustain that no it's white but the more than
40:00
SPEAKER_03: the half cases the people would say that it's black what's
40:06
SPEAKER_03: Curious is when they interview people after the experiment
40:10
SPEAKER_03: and they ask them why they said that the white is black they don't say
40:17
SPEAKER_03: that you know like everyone said that it's black so I didn't want to look stupid
40:22
SPEAKER_03: in front of other people so I said the same that the other people said in
40:27
SPEAKER_03: the majority of cases people don't even they're not even capable of explaining
40:34
SPEAKER_03: why they gave the answer they gave.
40:37
SPEAKER_03: So there was an experiment where they did this similar game,
40:43
SPEAKER_03: but they used an MRI to check what is happening in the brain of the subject of
40:51
SPEAKER_03: the experiment.
40:53
SPEAKER_03: And what they discovered that when the person starts receiving the signal
40:59
SPEAKER_03: that everyone in the group
41:02
SPEAKER_03: describes the reality in a different way not what the person thinks he or she sees
41:13
SPEAKER_03: the activity of the brain responsible for the visual it gets activated
41:20
SPEAKER_03: so it's just like an interpretation is hypothesis that
41:24
SPEAKER_03: the experiment has made it's not the real set of stone but they suggested that
41:30
SPEAKER_03: It might mean that when we are confronted with the shared reality
41:38
SPEAKER_03: that doesn't correspond to what we believe is the reality,
41:42
SPEAKER_03: our brain begins to change what we actually see.
41:49
SPEAKER_03: So our shared illusion is so powerful that actually we start believing
41:54
SPEAKER_03: that something is real just because the other people say that it's real.
42:06
SPEAKER_02: Ir, from what I understand,
42:07
SPEAKER_02: so you called those worlds,
42:14
SPEAKER_02: the collective world and the individual world, you called them illusions.
42:19
SPEAKER_02: And the way you talked about it,
42:22
SPEAKER_02: it sounded like your type of illusion based on imagination was somehow
42:32
SPEAKER_02: rather unique and it made you feel more isolated than other people in
42:45
SPEAKER_02: a different type of illusion maybe in the waking state illusion so is that yeah
42:55
SPEAKER_03: that describes the major part of my experiences in this world
43:04
SPEAKER_02: So in your opinion there is a conflict
43:08
SPEAKER_02: between this I would say maybe perceptual world and then the perceptual world
43:18
SPEAKER_02: that is rooted in the waking reality It might be perceived as a conflict Is there?
43:36
SPEAKER_03: You ask the question, would you make a decision based on your imagination?
43:41
SPEAKER_03: Because these decisions are having physical consequences in the physical reality.
43:51
SPEAKER_03: And I believe that if...
43:57
SPEAKER_03: My belief in my imagination is powerful enough for not letting
44:01
SPEAKER_03: the collective illusion to influence me that I might have the power
44:09
SPEAKER_03: to influence more the physical reality of my imagination than like what
44:15
SPEAKER_03: the collective illusion will influence so this is what magic is about but
44:37
SPEAKER_03: simple example let's imagine that I meet a guy I see certain signs in his behavior
44:49
SPEAKER_03: and that in my reality in my illusion creates an interpretation that
45:01
SPEAKER_03: He's into me like that he likes me or he's in love with me whatever like
45:06
SPEAKER_03: and I feel certain pull towards him too so I live in the reality
45:16
SPEAKER_03: where we like each other already but then this person doesn't present the behaviors
45:28
SPEAKER_03: that confirm
45:31
SPEAKER_03: this reality it it might be that it's something doesn't matter that like
45:38
SPEAKER_03: if my personality says okay like i don't care i will go to find another guy
45:42
SPEAKER_03: but depending on my personality for example if i perceive this as the rejection
45:48
SPEAKER_03: that is very powerful for me or really painful then it is a conflict and it is
45:56
SPEAKER_03: a problem so like i
46:04
SPEAKER_03: base my behavior and my interpretation of reality based on like one illusion
46:11
SPEAKER_03: and I discover that this illusion is not shared by the other person
46:14
SPEAKER_03: and it creates certain unpleasant experiences for me then it is a conflict okay
46:27
SPEAKER_02: so it's like you see
46:31
SPEAKER_02: they experience life basically as a set of different illusions and
46:39
SPEAKER_02: in some illusions you there is a match of the illusions and then it's easier
46:45
SPEAKER_02: to I guess share that world with someone
46:52
SPEAKER_02: and someone doesn't work this way there is like a clash of illusions
47:04
SPEAKER_03: There are some pieces of the illusions if they don't intersect it might not matter
47:09
SPEAKER_03: or it might be even the source of the inspiration for like amplifying our worldview
47:18
SPEAKER_03: and for creativity and discovering new things etc.
47:22
SPEAKER_03: But when these parts of the intersection where I believe that they intersect
47:29
SPEAKER_03: and I discover that they don't, they might be critical.
47:35
SPEAKER_03: If the relationships,
47:37
SPEAKER_03: if this contact is critical somehow for me, if it's important in my illusion.
47:45
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
47:51
SPEAKER_02: Halina?
47:53
SPEAKER_02: What would you say?
47:56
SPEAKER_01: What was the original question?
47:58
SPEAKER_01: Because we just went down so many different pathways.
48:04
SPEAKER_01: Whether or not I would follow something that could be imaginary or not real?
48:10
SPEAKER_01: Because it appears to me.
48:13
SPEAKER_02: What kind of worlds do you inhabit?
48:17
SPEAKER_02: Let's say some
48:21
SPEAKER_02: Real that you can touch some not real at all.
48:24
SPEAKER_02: And how do they inform each other?
48:26
SPEAKER_02: Like, for example, like what do you consider real in your in which world do you consider real?
48:40
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I actually don't know how to answer that question,
48:45
SPEAKER_01: because I both simultaneously believe nothing is real.
48:50
SPEAKER_01: and everything is real.
48:53
SPEAKER_02: Can you talk more about that?
48:59
SPEAKER_01: I mean, okay.
49:06
SPEAKER_01: Everything is an interpretation of what is being presented.
49:14
SPEAKER_01: I'm very aware that my interpretation is usually very different than
49:21
SPEAKER_01: Those that surround me Which always begs the question of what is real?
49:28
SPEAKER_01: Is their version real or is mine?
49:30
SPEAKER_01: Is any of it real?
49:32
SPEAKER_01: Is all of it real?
49:34
SPEAKER_01: At the same time?
49:42
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
49:42
SPEAKER_01: this is a question that I've lived with since I was little and I've shared with
49:48
SPEAKER_01: the two of you
49:49
SPEAKER_01: in this format before.
49:54
SPEAKER_01: Now, of course,
49:55
SPEAKER_01: there's more out there things that maybe are harder to...
50:06
SPEAKER_01: Like when they shapeshifted into a bird, was that real?
50:10
SPEAKER_01: Was that experience real?
50:13
SPEAKER_01: It felt real?
50:20
SPEAKER_01: Could I explain it to someone else that would believe it as real?
50:24
SPEAKER_01: Maybe Was that just my imagination going wild and activating a bunch of cells
50:33
SPEAKER_01: that have sensory perception?
50:37
SPEAKER_01: I'm going philosophical because I legitimately don't have another answer for you
50:42
SPEAKER_01: So maybe ask me a specific question
50:49
SPEAKER_02: So the context that I would like to explore is let's say in the world where a lot
51:02
SPEAKER_02: of people most people at least in the countries where we live like in
51:08
SPEAKER_02: the west they have a very clear definition of what real is and what is not real and
51:24
SPEAKER_02: they do have a definition of what is not real and it's reflected in a lot
51:29
SPEAKER_02: of things like healthcare for example that people who engage
51:35
SPEAKER_02: in whatever energetic practices for example or other thoughts of practices
51:42
SPEAKER_02: They're allowed to yet they're never recognized as something
51:47
SPEAKER_02: that insurance would pay for things things like that so I mean there is
51:53
SPEAKER_02: to me there is a very clear divide well maybe not a very clear divide but
51:58
SPEAKER_02: a clear divide which for me created has been creating an experience that
52:06
SPEAKER_02: if I live also in another world that for me is real
52:13
SPEAKER_02: And that creates a lot of tension with this world for whom,
52:16
SPEAKER_02: you know,
52:19
SPEAKER_02: for whom,
52:21
SPEAKER_02: be it imagination,
52:22
SPEAKER_02: be it dreams,
52:24
SPEAKER_02: be it traveling,
52:26
SPEAKER_02: you know,
52:26
SPEAKER_02: into the underworld,
52:27
SPEAKER_02: be it any other way of receiving information,
52:37
SPEAKER_02: if they do not recognize it, then I am always someone
52:43
SPEAKER_02: like on the fringe, it says if I lose a little bit of my legitimacy.
52:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that that makes total sense.
52:56
SPEAKER_01: But I've literally lived in that space my entire life.
52:59
SPEAKER_01: And then the the tension that you described, you did say tension, right?
53:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
53:06
SPEAKER_01: The tension you describe has only gotten easier for me personally
53:12
SPEAKER_01: when I just started accepting that nothing is real and everything is real.
53:20
SPEAKER_01: And I just started accepting my position in it.
53:24
SPEAKER_02: But what does it look like in your life?
53:28
SPEAKER_02: Nothing is real and everything is real.
53:36
SPEAKER_01: I mean collective consciousness I've always been on the fringe
53:41
SPEAKER_01: of whatever everyone else says it is so I've also tried to question it and try
53:51
SPEAKER_01: to understand to like locate myself compared to what I'm being told
53:59
SPEAKER_01: What does it look like?
54:00
SPEAKER_01: I don't know It looks like there's a bunch of people saying something And I'm like,
54:06
SPEAKER_01: okay,
54:06
SPEAKER_01: well those bunch of people are saying that I don't know
54:09
SPEAKER_01: if that's actually true That's their experience
54:12
SPEAKER_01: To them it's true They're creating it into reality I have
54:17
SPEAKER_01: a different experience They won't listen to it So I have to hold it with myself,
54:23
SPEAKER_01: by myself Maybe with a few other individuals that I come across
54:30
SPEAKER_01: that are also more capable of holding things on the fringe.
54:38
SPEAKER_01: Am I answering the question?
54:43
SPEAKER_02: The question was just what it means in your life to hold that,
54:48
SPEAKER_02: I guess,
54:48
SPEAKER_02: worldview or to inhabit that world where everything is real but nothing is real.
54:58
SPEAKER_01: It's just a constant state of questioning and not taking anything
55:06
SPEAKER_01: at surface level even though I have respect for a person that says
55:12
SPEAKER_01: that this is blue like I understand that to them it is blue but I also know
55:17
SPEAKER_01: that it's possibly green and maybe to me it looks red but it could actually be green
55:22
SPEAKER_01: to them it's blue to me it's red but it might actually be green meaning
55:30
SPEAKER_01: the tension of holding multiple things as possibilities at all times yes but what
55:43
SPEAKER_03: if you need to make a decision and this decision depends on whether it's blue
55:49
SPEAKER_01: or green or red yes so in that case I will most likely follow that
55:55
SPEAKER_01: where there's energy where I feel there's some aliveness where there's some sort
55:59
SPEAKER_01: of pull
56:01
SPEAKER_01: Which may or may not have anything to do with the reality of the thing The aliveness?
56:09
SPEAKER_01: And I know And I also know that every choice and every decision is still
56:15
SPEAKER_01: a fucking gamble I have no idea what real is I have no idea
56:20
SPEAKER_01: where this decision point will take me I have no idea if I'm even collecting
56:24
SPEAKER_01: the right data To have a little bit more sense of all the aspects of this thing
56:30
SPEAKER_01: That Is Real Or Maybe Not Or Maybe Both Aliveness You Were Asking Me
56:36
SPEAKER_01: About Aliveness It Was Not So Much A Question But Rather A Comment
56:45
SPEAKER_03: Because You Said I Will Guide Myself By The Aliveness Of
56:51
SPEAKER_03: The Energetic Pool I Feel Independently How Real It Seems Or Not But To Me
56:59
SPEAKER_03: This aliveness exactly makes it more real in comparison to other choices, to other illusions.
57:09
SPEAKER_01: In comparison?
57:11
SPEAKER_03: In comparison, yes.
57:12
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
57:14
SPEAKER_01: Yay!
57:16
SPEAKER_01: We caught it.
57:20
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it makes it more real.
57:22
SPEAKER_01: It just makes it something I want to engage with.
57:24
SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't say it makes it more real.
57:26
SPEAKER_01: It just makes it something I want to engage with.
57:29
SPEAKER_03: Okay, let's use different terminology.
57:32
SPEAKER_03: It makes it more alive for you at this moment.
57:36
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
57:37
SPEAKER_01: I just feel like this is what I want to try.
57:40
SPEAKER_01: Usually when I make decisions that are more from the head and there isn't
57:45
SPEAKER_01: that aliveness aspect or whatever,
57:52
SPEAKER_01: the decisions from the head don't feel very fun and, you know, they're very flat.
57:59
SPEAKER_01: They don't usually have any juice to them.
58:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
58:07
SPEAKER_02: Okay, and what has juice?
58:13
SPEAKER_02: What makes something juicy for you?
58:21
SPEAKER_01: I mean, honestly, the less 2D reality something is the more juicy it is.
58:29
SPEAKER_01: The more it defies the logic we've adapted for this reality,
58:36
SPEAKER_01: the more outside the bounds it is, the more I feel like a shkoda following it.
58:44
SPEAKER_01: What is shkoda in English?
58:46
SPEAKER_03: You live in US, you should know better.
58:52
SPEAKER_01: No, but there isn't a word.
58:53
SPEAKER_01: There isn't a one-to-one.
58:55
SPEAKER_02: There...
58:58
SPEAKER_01: You know, like a brazen child, sort of.
59:04
SPEAKER_01: I mean, what's more fun than to prove everyone wrong?
59:07
SPEAKER_01: There's nothing more...
59:11
SPEAKER_01: Well, it also can have a big cost associated with being shunned from society.
59:21
SPEAKER_03: And also, like, in my experience, for example, but
59:26
SPEAKER_03: I don't invite us to and I'm not assuming
59:30
SPEAKER_03: to extrapolate it I'm just explaining my own experience
59:35
SPEAKER_03: because it's my particular case but in my life the motivation to prove something to
59:47
SPEAKER_03: the world that they're wrong and I'm right just have stopped walking I think
59:56
SPEAKER_03: Twenty Years Ago I Mean Just The Reality Stop Responding To My Attempts
1:00:09
SPEAKER_03: To Manifest Whatever In My Illusion If I Am Coming From The Motivation To Prove That
1:00:18
SPEAKER_03: The World Is Wrong And I Am Right
1:00:21
SPEAKER_01: yeah I didn't say that I want to prove it I agree proving but you just you said
1:00:28
SPEAKER_01: that I mean doing something that is against the grain and doesn't work
1:00:33
SPEAKER_01: the way they say just from my experience not to prove okay okay
1:00:38
SPEAKER_01: but there is no proving because uh people that share uh
1:00:43
SPEAKER_01: the illusion of reality and are very committed to it are incapable of letting
1:00:49
SPEAKER_01: an outlier enter their consciousness they will do everything possible to make sure
1:00:55
SPEAKER_01: to explain away this outlier in ways that fit their reality so there is no way
1:01:00
SPEAKER_01: to prove it so it's but but it's fun to do it for you
1:01:04
SPEAKER_01: for me it's fun it's cool it's expensive okay so I'm hearing
1:01:12
SPEAKER_02: It's expensive.
1:01:15
SPEAKER_02: Is that part of being juicy?
1:01:18
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
1:01:23
SPEAKER_02: Anything else?
1:01:23
SPEAKER_02: So I'm actually now I'm wondering,
1:01:27
SPEAKER_02: there are some costs associated with inhabiting those perceptual worlds.
1:01:35
SPEAKER_02: This is how I would call them that are not shared by or are not considered legitimate by
1:01:42
SPEAKER_02: the majority of the population that you live with right so like what are
1:01:52
SPEAKER_02: the benefits why why why hold on to those perceptual realities or
1:02:01
SPEAKER_01: in my case I just I just I cannot live if I'm living according to
1:02:07
SPEAKER_01: other people's reality that it is not is not real
1:02:10
SPEAKER_01: for me I start shutting down my body starts getting sick my mind starts getting sick
1:02:14
SPEAKER_01: I start losing my access to why am I here like what's the point
1:02:19
SPEAKER_01: of all this I've had this experience nothing works so it's as
1:02:27
SPEAKER_02: if you were limited um you put into this one plane then your being starts
1:02:37
SPEAKER_02: suffering or it just goes into some kind of reaction
1:02:43
SPEAKER_02: that um yeah well first it's rebellion right in the beginning like for
1:02:52
SPEAKER_01: the first maybe 20 or 30 years it's rebellion that leads nowhere
1:02:56
SPEAKER_01: then it's complete shutdown that also leads nowhere but
1:03:03
SPEAKER_01: the experience has been like fitting yourself into
1:03:07
SPEAKER_01: Something that is not the shape of you.
1:03:09
SPEAKER_01: If it's not the shape of me,
1:03:11
SPEAKER_01: even though I don't necessarily have a shape, I want to occupy different shapes.
1:03:17
SPEAKER_01: But if you're going to tell me I can only occupy this shape according to your rules,
1:03:23
SPEAKER_01: what's the point?
1:03:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I sort of share this.
1:03:38
SPEAKER_03: The world is dull and the life became pointless and my body enters into depression
1:03:48
SPEAKER_03: and doesn't want to live.
1:03:50
SPEAKER_03: So the way how I say it, I simply don't want to live in the world without magic.
1:03:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a really good way to frame it.
1:04:01
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I would use the word magic,
1:04:03
SPEAKER_01: but I would maybe use a different word, but it's the same sentiment.
1:04:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:04:11
SPEAKER_02: And you, Yuli?
1:04:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it's the same with me.
1:04:19
SPEAKER_02: I think it's not that I even chose to...
1:04:26
SPEAKER_02: Occupy this world, this experience.
1:04:29
SPEAKER_02: I think it's more that I found out through a lot of iterations and pushing it away
1:04:35
SPEAKER_02: and pushing it away and away and then really just finding myself at bottoms,
1:04:44
SPEAKER_02: just going down deep and down deep.
1:04:56
SPEAKER_02: Yes and so every time I would go down and I would discover that the thing
1:05:05
SPEAKER_02: that makes me alive again somehow has to do with you know other states
1:05:12
SPEAKER_02: of consciousness or other perceptual planes so but the problem that
1:05:24
SPEAKER_02: I think the way that I was trying to manage it was still to put the divide
1:05:30
SPEAKER_02: a big divide between you know what is it the reality the reality
1:05:36
SPEAKER_02: that I can share you know with the majority of people who I exist with
1:05:42
SPEAKER_02: and my own reality and I do share it with not specifically my reality
1:05:51
SPEAKER_02: but you know just like in broader sense
1:05:54
SPEAKER_02: Different realities with you and with some other communities
1:05:58
SPEAKER_02: but I didn't find it very sustainable that combination of you know building a wall
1:06:07
SPEAKER_02: and separating the two because there is a lot of energy that goes into maintaining
1:06:12
SPEAKER_02: that wall and actually I find that you know that state of
1:06:21
SPEAKER_02: that those other states they're very rich
1:06:24
SPEAKER_02: like in terms of information that they can provide for the waking life
1:06:29
SPEAKER_02: but it just you know but it also it also makes those decisions in
1:06:38
SPEAKER_02: the waking life look weird because they come from a different perceptual plane
1:06:46
SPEAKER_02: so that's kind of the you know what I've been playing with um
1:06:54
SPEAKER_02: I mean like what is real so we can each live a happy life?
1:07:07
SPEAKER_03: Now the next question is what is happy life?
1:07:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah but also funny enough like the basis of psychology and coaching
1:07:16
SPEAKER_01: for example is all about changing like creating more potential perspectives
1:07:23
SPEAKER_01: on something
1:07:25
SPEAKER_01: and shifting yourself out of just a one way to look at it right like
1:07:30
SPEAKER_01: when you create more perspectives as possibilities then you start seeing
1:07:35
SPEAKER_01: that this thing you thought was real is only one potential possibility and that is
1:07:40
SPEAKER_01: the gateway to not reality but what reality do you want to choose for yourself
1:07:48
SPEAKER_01: and pursue
1:07:54
SPEAKER_01: Literally what's out there in terms of healing other than medication.
1:08:01
SPEAKER_01: Well, even some medication, actually, we can make an argument there.
1:08:08
SPEAKER_01: But all of it is about changing your state, right?
1:08:12
SPEAKER_01: And or changing your perception.
1:08:15
SPEAKER_01: So if perception is changeable, how can there be a reality change?
1:08:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, only many realities.
1:08:30
SPEAKER_01: So if there's many realities, why would I choose one that doesn't excite me?
1:08:36
SPEAKER_02: Yes, I guess,
1:08:37
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:08:38
SPEAKER_02: the question is,
1:08:39
SPEAKER_02: is there an agreement in the society that we live in that a lot
1:08:43
SPEAKER_02: of different realities are accepted and welcome, maybe?
1:08:48
SPEAKER_01: No, the agreement is that only one reality is accepted and welcome.
1:08:52
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
1:08:55
SPEAKER_01: Well not all of society is like that because look the three
1:08:58
SPEAKER_01: of us are here we make space for each other's realities you show up with a knife and
1:09:03
SPEAKER_01: a cowboy hat you're telling me that this is not real but I perceive this
1:09:07
SPEAKER_01: as very much part of you like I believe this
1:09:11
SPEAKER_01: And Ira is saying this is like also something she had to really go deep to get
1:09:17
SPEAKER_01: to get access to
1:09:19
SPEAKER_01: and I'm like really I feel like this is totally you like I don't know I don't have
1:09:23
SPEAKER_01: that perception that this is not this is someone you only visit rarely I believe
1:09:28
SPEAKER_01: the two of you I believe myself in this role So what's reality?
1:09:44
SPEAKER_03: Well how often for example in terms of the characters
1:09:49
SPEAKER_03: for example how often do I inhabit this character when I'm making steps
1:10:02
SPEAKER_03: when I do something in the physical reality not when I'm just imagining something
1:10:08
SPEAKER_03: in my head
1:10:11
SPEAKER_01: from your perspective but from my perspective I've seen this persona many times
1:10:18
SPEAKER_01: so what's real your perception of this persona and how often you access it
1:10:26
SPEAKER_01: or my perception of how often I've seen it or is it all real or none of it is real
1:10:39
SPEAKER_02: I can also totally see that this is a very important persona
1:10:45
SPEAKER_02: for you like you know some big part of you that is there
1:10:50
SPEAKER_02: and you know like I think what really makes me interested in ways of combining a lot
1:11:00
SPEAKER_02: of realities or inhabiting a lot of realities is that um
1:11:07
SPEAKER_02: I've seen how things like that,
1:11:09
SPEAKER_02: just inhabiting a different persona in a really emphatic way or enacting something
1:11:19
SPEAKER_02: from the position of a different perceptual reality,
1:11:22
SPEAKER_02: it creates almost an instantaneous shift in who you are in the waking reality
1:11:29
SPEAKER_02: and what you are capable of.
1:11:32
SPEAKER_02: In Terms Of You Know Whatever Like Doing Being Creating In This In This
1:11:41
SPEAKER_02: In This Waking World And So That Makes It Also Kind Of A Thing
1:11:47
SPEAKER_02: That I Could Not See Myself You Know Just Giving Up And Going To Therapy For
1:11:57
SPEAKER_02: For Five Years
1:11:58
SPEAKER_02: but to me you know like there is something there can be like almost a magical spark
1:12:05
SPEAKER_02: for example if let's say Ira appears here with us and we just happen
1:12:13
SPEAKER_02: to witness something that is really um that really wanted to be witnessed and
1:12:21
SPEAKER_02: then it's like you know and something
1:12:27
SPEAKER_02: Defying timescale and our ideas about change and how it happens, it takes place just like that.
1:12:40
SPEAKER_01: That's true.
1:12:42
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes when I'm wearing the wrong outfit and I think about a thing that needs
1:12:46
SPEAKER_01: to happen, I forget that actually I could totally do this thing.
1:12:52
SPEAKER_01: Let me put on some overalls and I can fix this gate.
1:12:57
SPEAKER_01: I just forget that I have access to all this stuff,
1:13:00
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:13:00
SPEAKER_01: like if I'm wearing a dress,
1:13:01
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to be like, oh, how can I fix this freaking gate?
1:13:05
SPEAKER_01: But if I put some overalls on, I could do it myself.
1:13:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, isn't that cool?
1:13:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:13:13
SPEAKER_02: I actually I wore this hat today at a different session that happened
1:13:19
SPEAKER_02: before our recording and I was like I was five minutes late because
1:13:26
SPEAKER_02: of this crazy difference time difference still between Europe and
1:13:32
SPEAKER_02: the States I'm just like joining the call and um
1:13:40
SPEAKER_02: The people know me and here I come in this hat, wearing this hat.
1:13:46
SPEAKER_02: And somehow it's just wearing this hat.
1:13:50
SPEAKER_02: It's again something like an artifact that you can touch.
1:13:54
SPEAKER_02: And yet that call and me in that call and with those people was different.
1:14:05
SPEAKER_02: So
1:14:07
SPEAKER_02: Was it the hat that was real?
1:14:09
SPEAKER_02: Or was it another me that was real?
1:14:12
SPEAKER_02: Or was it something in the air that was real?
1:14:15
SPEAKER_01: Or them responding to the hat?
1:14:17
SPEAKER_01: Them thinking, oh, this is weird.
1:14:20
SPEAKER_01: Yulia's wearing this weird hat.
1:14:22
SPEAKER_01: Did she come from some kind of Texas adventure?
1:14:25
SPEAKER_01: What's happening?
1:14:26
SPEAKER_01: Is she a horsewoman now?
1:14:28
SPEAKER_01: Wait, is she off to the Amazon to do a dig?
1:14:31
SPEAKER_01: What's happening?
1:14:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:14:36
SPEAKER_01: I showed up for a live event this past week in New York and I didn't wear my glasses
1:14:44
SPEAKER_01: and my hair was down.
1:14:46
SPEAKER_01: Usually on Zoom calls it's up.
1:14:48
SPEAKER_01: And the women were like, oh, Polina, is this you?
1:14:52
SPEAKER_01: They were all really surprised at me without glasses and my hair down.
1:14:57
SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh my God, it really changes the perception.
1:15:01
SPEAKER_01: Just like those two simple things, glasses or no glasses and hair down or not.
1:15:06
SPEAKER_01: For some reason the perception of the person really shifts Exactly
1:15:11
SPEAKER_02: so it feels like almost there are these doors like invisible doors everywhere
1:15:18
SPEAKER_02: that you know but somehow to see these doors you cannot go too deep
1:15:25
SPEAKER_02: and just be too grounded in the waking reality and then
1:15:29
SPEAKER_02: the waking reality does want it to be grounded so sorry you wanted to say something
1:15:41
SPEAKER_03: I just remember the story about the importance of the appearance and how it impacts
1:15:47
SPEAKER_03: the perception of other people and how it impacts their reality I just remember one
1:15:58
SPEAKER_03: of my teachers of the feminine practices she used to say that
1:16:06
SPEAKER_03: when you make your hair when you put it high so it gives you the energy
1:16:12
SPEAKER_03: of like more power like more powerful woman and so like if you want
1:16:18
SPEAKER_03: to be more submissive you need
1:16:22
SPEAKER_03: to take your hair down you're like not well maybe lose but just not take it high
1:16:28
SPEAKER_03: and I remember that I was dating a guy
1:16:34
SPEAKER_03: I think who had some sort of problems with the powerful woman
1:16:39
SPEAKER_03: because he was not very secure in himself and I was wearing this huge bun on the top
1:16:48
SPEAKER_03: of my head and in the middle of
1:16:51
SPEAKER_03: the date he's like very nervously he says please can you take it down please you're
1:16:58
SPEAKER_03: making me nervous Wow
1:17:04
SPEAKER_03: Wow!
1:17:06
SPEAKER_02: And did you say, bye-bye, my love?
1:17:11
SPEAKER_03: No, no, I didn't say that, but I took it down.
1:17:16
SPEAKER_03: I thought, okay, poor guy.
1:17:17
SPEAKER_03: He feels so nervous because of my pun.
1:17:20
SPEAKER_03: I will be more submissive.
1:17:23
SPEAKER_03: It didn't help him anyway.
1:17:29
SPEAKER_01: But what an example.
1:17:32
SPEAKER_01: I mean I forget I forget how the externals can really inform the perceived reality
1:17:39
SPEAKER_01: from the outside because I'm always feeling me but even I guess today
1:17:46
SPEAKER_01: with this outfit I am occupying more of my sensual female right feminine energy
1:17:51
SPEAKER_01: than I would in a sweatshirt so then what the hell is real like
1:17:56
SPEAKER_01: so reality something we choose to dress in the morning
1:18:02
SPEAKER_02: It is a type of reality And it does help you to occupy a certain state
1:18:18
SPEAKER_03: and your state influences all other things of how you are interacting with
1:18:29
SPEAKER_03: the reality with the world around you with yourself okay so I must say
1:18:48
SPEAKER_02: that this we're gonna be wrapping up and
1:19:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah I must say that I'm still kind of wondering about reality and about maybe
1:19:15
SPEAKER_02: the right questions that I might have asked but didn't ask but it was a fun
1:19:27
SPEAKER_02: Exploration and exploration for me to see is like it is even hard
1:19:33
SPEAKER_02: to like put my finger on it what like this is real and maybe it is due to the fact
1:19:43
SPEAKER_02: that when a lot of things are real to you
1:19:47
SPEAKER_02: then you might lose this like well how is it not real of course this is real
1:19:53
SPEAKER_02: so I guess it's more about the interplay of
1:19:59
SPEAKER_02: living in the world and collective, which strongly disagrees with your realities, right?
1:20:23
SPEAKER_02: um yeah so I wonder let's just um you know maybe uh invite you to finish
1:20:34
SPEAKER_02: with anything maybe you know we're living with a question or whatever you are taking
1:20:44
SPEAKER_02: from our conversation I used to really want to have a sense of shared reality
1:20:55
SPEAKER_01: and so that you know things could be more defined and contained and more predictable
1:21:09
SPEAKER_01: and yet that was very binding and very limiting and so in this season
1:21:18
SPEAKER_01: of my life I find myself
1:21:21
SPEAKER_01: Completely on the outside of shared reality with many people but
1:21:30
SPEAKER_01: in certain containers more shared reality but on the outskirts of mainstream
1:21:39
SPEAKER_01: and it's very freeing and it's there's joy and enjoyment and a sense of aliveness
1:21:47
SPEAKER_01: and
1:21:49
SPEAKER_01: My hope and dream would be that those of us that are in more of
1:21:54
SPEAKER_01: a straightforward reality would find some room for those of us that are not so
1:22:01
SPEAKER_01: that we could all still love one another and interact with one another with respect
1:22:06
SPEAKER_01: and spaciousness and I don't know if that is possible in this incarnation and
1:22:14
SPEAKER_01: that is what I have to say
1:22:23
SPEAKER_03: I think what Polina said that this approach of accepting that the existence
1:22:31
SPEAKER_03: of multiple realities at the same time and so giving them space and letting them
1:22:44
SPEAKER_03: to find this confluence, convergence or just letting them be at the same time
1:22:53
SPEAKER_03: I think it's a very good reminder.
1:22:56
SPEAKER_03: I, for myself, still do want to have the experience of shared reality.
1:23:04
SPEAKER_03: The thing is that the more I allow myself to be guided by this feeling of aliveness,
1:23:16
SPEAKER_03: the more I find these experiences.
1:23:18
SPEAKER_03: So I don't have an illusion that
1:23:21
SPEAKER_03: the whole world will share my reality but like let them be like it's enough for me
1:23:27
SPEAKER_03: that I found the two of you and so like the more they do it
1:23:32
SPEAKER_03: the more I have this sense of like wow you're like this reality is very much shared
1:23:41
SPEAKER_03: so I have other groups with whom I might share other aspects of like
1:23:50
SPEAKER_03: of my other realities
1:23:53
SPEAKER_03: and so like as long
1:23:57
SPEAKER_03: as those interactions those contacts those shared realities give me this experience
1:24:10
SPEAKER_03: of aliveness I think it's enough yeah um
1:24:27
SPEAKER_02: I think I yeah I came to really just treasure those experiences as maybe
1:24:36
SPEAKER_02: the experiences to live for experiences that emerge in this you know outside of
1:24:46
SPEAKER_02: the waking consciousness and what I I think
1:24:58
SPEAKER_02: Where it leads me is how can I create and support more capacity in myself so
1:25:11
SPEAKER_02: that I really claim them as my reality and I inhabit them with like courage
1:25:21
SPEAKER_02: and owning them because I found find that
1:25:26
SPEAKER_02: Owning them,
1:25:27
SPEAKER_02: which is very much tied to,
1:25:30
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:25:32
SPEAKER_02: like my capacity to a lot of things about,
1:25:37
SPEAKER_02: you know, like what's going on in my personality or subconscious.
1:25:48
SPEAKER_02: you know my capacity really amplifies them me saying publicly yes I own them this is
1:25:55
SPEAKER_02: who I am those are my experiences it's as if they speak back
1:25:59
SPEAKER_02: and they say whoo yes yes to that so yeah that's really what I'm thinking
1:26:11
SPEAKER_02: about that's super important
1:26:17
SPEAKER_01: Wait, but can I also just want to add one more thing?
1:26:20
SPEAKER_01: It brings me so much joy when the people that I interact with have range.
1:26:32
SPEAKER_03: What do you mean?
1:26:34
SPEAKER_01: There's different personas available.
1:26:37
SPEAKER_01: There's different ways of interacting.
1:26:40
SPEAKER_01: Like the two of you have range and I love that.
1:26:43
SPEAKER_01: And it's so limiting.
1:26:46
SPEAKER_01: To interact with someone who both doesn't have range within them,
1:26:51
SPEAKER_01: but also doesn't have the capacity to hold range in someone else.
1:26:59
SPEAKER_01: It's also boring.
1:27:00
SPEAKER_02: Range.
1:27:01
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
1:27:03
SPEAKER_02: Range.
1:27:04
SPEAKER_02: Surprises, intrigues, things are possible.
1:27:09
SPEAKER_02: A lot of things are possible.
1:27:12
SPEAKER_01: Whereas when we're younger,
1:27:14
SPEAKER_01: we were taught that we need to pick one persona and really get super good at it
1:27:23
SPEAKER_01: and just be that for the rest of your life.
1:27:27
SPEAKER_01: Oh, the shackles.
1:27:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so how about we finish with our...
1:27:34
SPEAKER_02: Personas That Maybe We Started With Or Maybe They Have Slightly Changed
1:27:40
SPEAKER_02: Or Whatever They Want To However They Want To Show Up
1:28:02
SPEAKER_01: I'm so delighted at your range Give me my horse I can give you my bird Will you take
1:28:13
SPEAKER_01: a bird instead of a horse?
1:28:22
SPEAKER_02: You tried to convince me baby You can talk about that Challenge accepted
1:28:34
SPEAKER_00: And I simply don't care Your range is
1:28:44
SPEAKER_02: so juicy girls Yeah wishing everything wishing everyone those juicy ranges
1:28:57
SPEAKER_02: and reality that sometimes knocks you
1:29:01
SPEAKER_02: down because it's so juicy and incredible and so worth living for thank you
1:29:09
SPEAKER_02: for being with us I'm gonna think about having more episodes
1:29:15
SPEAKER_02: on this topic it has you know yeah I need to digest it
1:29:22
SPEAKER_02: but it was fun see you next time thank you see you
1:29:31
SPEAKER_02: Thanks for listening.
1:29:32
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1:29:34
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1:29:41
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