Latest / Motherhood Alliance Podcast / How to Start Running Again Without Getting Injured w/ Dr. Matt Buch | Total Pursuit PT
Transcript
- Britney: Hey everyone, welcome back to the podcast. We're excited for episode number three with Dr. Matt. Welcome back, Dr. Matt. Matt Buch: Thank you, glad to be here again. Britney: Yeah, I love having multiple episodes because we can cover multiple topics from different lenses. And today we're going to be talking primarily about running. So if you guys are just tuning into this episode, this is the first one that you're jumping onto with Dr. Matt. Make sure you head back and listen to the first two, because the first one really does apply to everybody. We talked about why rest and stretching aren't always fixing the problem, how sometimes injuries or pain are stemming from somewhere else. And as a PT, how he kind of puts on his detective hat to figure that stuff out. And then in our last episode, we talked a lot about knees and low back and why those are common problem areas and how to kind of overcome that. We also talked about CrossFit, HIIT, high impact, stuff like that. Today we're going to be talking about running. is a huge thing. And this is such a great exercise because it gets us outside. Like we all need to be outside more in today's age. But why is it that so many people do get injured with running? Matt Buch: because we live in Wisconsin ⁓ we're indoors for like ⁓ months and then everyone's like, woo, let's go run as soon as ⁓ first good day hits. I especially in ⁓ an area where, ⁓ yes, there some people run all year here. ⁓ There's some people that love ⁓ winter running, running the snow. Some people run Britney: Hey everyone, we are Brit and Drea from motherhoodalliance.com and we are excited to welcome you to a four episode series with Dr. Matt Buch, a doctor of physical therapy, board certified orthopedic specialist, and the owner of total pursuit physical therapy and performance based out of De Pere, Wisconsin. Dr. Matt works with active people of all kinds from athletes who love to train hard to parents who simply want to run around with their kids without dealing with constant aches and pains. But what really sets him apart is his belief that pain isn't something you just live with. So if you've ever been told to rest more, stretch more, or chalk it up to getting older, he is really passionate about challenging that mindset. His approach focuses on uncovering the root cause so that you can move better and feel stronger for the long haul. Dr. Matt creates customized treatment plans that often combine hands-on techniques like dry needling, cupping, and joint manipulation with strength training, movement coaching, and realistic habit shifts that actually fit your life. It's not just about getting you out of pain. It's about keeping you active long-term. Matt Buch: But I think what ends up happening is either people run for a while ⁓ and want to pick up where they left off last season, or ⁓ were a runner ⁓ in high college. We see lot of clients here who were high school and collegiate runners. They started a family. They kind of put all of that on the back burner, and then they've jumped back into it. ⁓ Britney: And outside the clinic, he's an avid bow hunter, climber, outdoor enthusiast, husband, and dad to two young boys. So he truly understands the value of being able to move well and keep up with the life that you love. We can't wait for you guys to get to know him. Matt Buch: And I think it's important to know that past athletic history does not necessarily equal current athletic readiness. ⁓ So think a lot of people, that's right, exactly. Britney: say it again for the people in the back because I think a lot of people really struggle with the mindset piece around that. They struggle with racing themselves. So. Matt Buch: Yeah, and tissues are going to adapt to ⁓ stimulus you put them on a regular basis. ⁓ So we ⁓ haven't running for an extended period of time, you know, over the winter ⁓ or, know, since college, all of a sudden ⁓ you're your body to do things that it's not ready for. you're a runner, you probably know this, but ⁓ single stride that you take is putting about five times your body weight through ⁓ stance leg with every impact. So if this is not something that you have built up and maintained, that's a pretty big stimulus for your body to take on all of a sudden. Especially if you go out and do ⁓ miles on your first run, because that's where you left off at the end of the season last year. body just doesn't work like that. It takes a while to ⁓ up that tissue tolerance again. Britney: Okay, so let's assume somebody listening to this is somebody who either is gonna start running for the very first time, or maybe they've run in the past, they've taken at least, let's just say six months off, or maybe they haven't ran in 10 years. What type of exercises should they be doing in their workouts now to prepare their body for that load that you just talked about? Matt Buch: Absolutely. so strength training is going to be the number one thing that they're going to want to focus on. ⁓ so once again, going back to, ⁓ know, five times your body weight being impacted through ⁓ leg every single time that you hit the ground when you're running, you want to make sure that your body can, can start to tolerate that. So, you know, resistance training with dumbbells, barbells, whatever it is, ⁓ know, going through, you know, your squats, your lunges, your heel raises. ⁓ All of these lower chain exercises that are going to build up your body's strength and tolerance. The next thing that they want to be focused on is more what would call plyometric movements or just kind of quick, rapid movements that are going to really build up your tissues tolerance to that repetitive impact. So starting to double leg, little ankle hops, ⁓ single leg ankle hops. box jumps, hopping from side to side, forward, backward, just really building up your body's capacity building up these tissue tolerances. I feel like a lot of times people skip these steps ⁓ and just kind of dive right into their run. They walk out their front door and hit the pavement. And unfortunately, a of your body is just not ready for that. Britney: Do you feel like it would be beneficial for someone who's just starting out to see a PT prior to starting running, even if they don't have pain or anything going on, just to kind of have their form evaluated and just make sure that their body is ready? Matt Buch: Yeah, I would say that you want to see a sports specific or running specific PT because every PT is a runner. So, ⁓ you know, may not see a lot of runners. They may not do a lot with running form. So if you can find someone that specializes in that, or if that's a high volume of the clients that they see, at least doing a consult to say, okay, where are things likely to break down? Where am I weak? Where are my movement faults? All of these things that can be revealed through a full evaluation can be really, really enlightening to show, all right, these are the things that I wanna be working on to prepare myself to get into running or get back into running and minimize that risk of an injury that's just gonna sideline you. Britney: sure. when somebody decides, so if they feel like they're ready, let's say they come and see you, they get some evaluation, they've been working on string training, now they're ready to add that high impact in because running is high impact, right? Are there any tools that you recommend that people are using, whether it's something like an app on their phone, I've heard of using like cadence apps to like help keep their feet in a certain type of cadence. But also a ton of people would automatically put in earbuds and start listening to music or a podcast. Is that a pro or con when you're really getting started and you really want to be able listen to your body? Talk us through kind of technology and how it can be used when out on the road. Matt Buch: Yeah, so we'll definitely use cadence apps. I think adjusting somebody's cadence can be really beneficial ⁓ they're having knee pain, if they're dealing with shin splints, ⁓ it is. I normally do that right out the gate because if somebody's just starting running, ⁓ if they're getting into the sport, I really try to not overcomplicate things. ⁓ And think, especially runners, If you've been a runner for a long time, runners can be very analytical. They can really dive into the minutia of their cadence, you know, of course their pace, you know, the footwear that they're using, all of this kind of stuff. For someone who's just getting into it and they're like, I just want to, do this for health reasons. I want to, get back into it a little bit. I think over-complicating it can, just lead to a lot of confusion and can almost discourage somebody from. from just going out and enjoying a run. So I think there's 100 % of time and a place for apps and technology and stuff like that, not for somebody who is just starting out running. What I would recommend is that they use a protocol that's gonna help them build up their tolerance through what we would call graded exposure. So for example, for people that we are helping just get into running or, you know, they've been out of it for a long time, we'll start doing some intervals where they're running for a certain period of time, walking for a certain period of time. Over the course of, you know, weeks and months, the amount of walking comes down, the amount of running goes up, and that really helps people build up their tolerance to it without going overboard and... finding themselves in an injury position that's gonna set them back. Britney: you mentioned shin splints, so I want to circle back to that. What is happening with shin splints and how do you overcome them? Matt Buch: So shin splints is a issue where some of the tissue in the front of your shin or the front of your leg actually starts to become very irritated. It occurs because the muscles in the front of the leg are not strong enough to decelerate your foot as you're coming through. So a lot of people will say don't ever heel strike when you run. That's not necessarily true because some people can use heel strike and run just fine for somebody that has an issue with shin splints where they're heel striking and then their foot is coming down and slapping. Generally that's going to cause some irritation in the front of shin. That might be a person that we're going to put on a cadence and really try to adjust their stride length to avoid that slapping motion and avoid overworking the muscles in the front of their shin. So what that means is that we're actually gonna try to increase speed at which their feet are hitting the pavement, which is going to ⁓ their stride out a little bit. So it's gonna feel like they're almost pitter pattering a little bit more, but that's gonna take a lot of stress off of the tissue in the front of the shin. Britney: ⁓ I did PT quite a long time ago I was working with a running PT and I was using a cadence app and I will tell you when I was trying to shorten my stride because I was a pretty bad heel striker, it ⁓ messed up my breathing because you have to like have to learn how to breathe again based off ⁓ your new pace. So it was a learning Yeah, so just a heads up. I mean, ⁓ you make it sound really easy, but also this is something where if you're Matt Buch: Yeah. ⁓ it's exhausting. Britney: If you're getting form evaluated and you're making changes that are going to long-term benefit you, there is some short-term pain in the process of trying to relearn it all. Matt Buch: pace ⁓ your times are going to ⁓ a little bit before your cardio system really starts to adapt to that. It'll come back, but you might be a little frustrated at first. ⁓ Britney: Yeah, for sure. Now, if somebody's getting more into running, oftentimes people want to sign up for a race because that gives them something that motivates them, right? Keeps, holds them accountable, give them something to work toward, gets them out on the road, gives them a training plan typically. But from what I've seen oftentimes is runners don't stretch. And as soon as they start running more, their strength training goes down. Is that something, if their strength training goes down, is that something that can lead to injury? Or is it because they're doing running and they've set up their foundation, now they're running because there's much more use to it, there's really not that much chance of injury? Walk us through how can somebody balance all of this? And is it really a bad thing to strength train less if you're following a big running plan? Matt Buch: So it, it's not necessarily a bad thing to strength train less, but you still want to strength train. So if we're going back to the, the stretching example, you know, a lot of runners are bad at stretching, right? ⁓ we, ⁓ we were talking about this where, you know, you want to, you get up in the morning, you know, you take your shot of espresso, you run out the front door, you're going, you get back home and then you head straight to the shower and then go to work. So ⁓ there's not a lot of recovery time. in there. Stretching is great. I love stretching. think it's great. A lot of times, the cause ⁓ of tightness that you're feeling and we touched on this in a previous episode, ⁓ but just reiterate it here is is the muscle that feels really tight is just not strong enough or enough to tolerate the stimulus that you're putting on. So for example, let's go for runners, talk about your calf, right? So a lot of people, ⁓ feel like they gotta keep stretching their calves out, because their calves get really tight when they run. What's probably going on is your calf is getting fatigued ⁓ breaking down, and then it's getting overused. And then as a result, your body is tightening it back up to try and protect the muscle and protect the joints that the muscle surrounds. So really what we want to be doing is doing a good amount of strength training for that calf. Now in terms of frequency and everything like that, there's a good amount of research out now that in order to maintain strength, you need to hit that muscle with a strength training stimulus about once a week. So if we're able to do that twice a week, along with running, you know, four other days per week, three to four other days, if that's your priority, then that should be adequate to allow you to continue to run, not spend too much time strength training because we all have a finite amount of time, right? We're not, we don't have the luxury of being able to do everything in terms of strength training, running, all of the recovery stuff ⁓ as well. but it is still important. So we need to figure out a way to work that into your. Britney: this is something that I I wrestled with a lot when I was doing long distance running is it's like, you know, the value of it, but also you don't have time for everything. So I think that is helpful. It's almost kind of kind of counterintuitive in your brain though, too. When like the calf example is like, well, every time I'm going running, I am working my calves like aren't isn't that strengthening my calves? What do mean? Now I'm now I'm basically working them out five days a week. Right. So it is counterintuitive, but it is a different Matt Buch: you Britney: of strengthening than doing the running exercise. So I appreciate you kind of breaking that down. What are some of the most common injuries you see happening with runners? I know there's IT band syndrome. There tends to be a lot with the knees. Like what else what are some of most common injuries that you're seeing and then why don't you give us some tips for those? Matt Buch: Yeah. So, knee pain, 100 % is the most common thing that we see in runners. Sometimes it's, ⁓ know, an acute injury, some type of a sprain. A of times it's, once again, an overuse thing. ⁓ Just people of getting a little, little too hot and heavy into their, into their running regimen before their, body's ready for it. A lot of times it is stemming from, you know, issues in other parts of the body. So for example, Knee pain, a lot of times can be very associated with that IT band syndrome. say your hip is a bit weak. All of a sudden your knee starts to collapse in just a little bit because your, your leg starts to cross over midline when you're, when you're striding, that's a natural compensation that your body is going to make for, for hip weakness. Now your knee is being stressed in a new way. your IT band is also being stressed around your hip and being overstretched as that happens. And then you start to get kind of those things in conjunction with each other. So what we would want to look at is we really want to look at what is your single leg strength looks like, look like what is your stability look like? How are you able to move through planes of motion? And do we need to adjust and build up in order to to improve your tolerance? So ⁓ Once again, going back to your previous point, when we think about, okay, well, if I'm running, using my hips, I'm using my quads, I'm using all of these different areas of my body, why isn't that just strengthening it up? Your body really craves a lot of different types of stimulus. ⁓ your body will get used to a certain stimulus, for example, running. it's going to find the most efficient way to do that. Okay. So unless you're challenging it in new ways, you're not going to start to build up that, that strength in those muscle groups, unless you specifically hit them in a little bit of a different way, then what your body is, is doing when it's running. what we see a lot of times is people come in, they have knee pain, all of a sudden on that same side, they have a lot of hip weakness and they didn't even realize it because their body has compensated for it. that compensation has started to lead to the hip pain. So until we actually address that root cause, which is weakness in the hip, which is causing some form changes, which is causing stress around knee, it's not going to improve itself just by continuing to run and hoping that it strengthens itself up and it works its way out. Britney: Yeah, and I'm sure a lot of people, they start feeling these types of pains, ⁓ they come and see someone like you, but also it can be frustrating because you almost have to take a step back in your training plan and go back to the foundations and that can be really hard to do. ⁓ Matt Buch: It's yeah, it's especially for runners. Like, you know, so many runners, especially around here, like we have such a short period of time to hit all of your running goals, you know, do the races that you signed up for. You're on a specific training program. it is really hard to, to cut back on that and say, okay, I need to just take a step back so I can address this issue. And I think so many times people just, you know, really try and push through and hope it works itself out. And unfortunately, ⁓ that's like the way ⁓ route ⁓ going through something than if they would have just said, all right, we're going to pump the brakes for ⁓ week or two, just let things calm down, build this up, and then we're going to kind of progress right back into where we were. And to be totally honest, it usually doesn't derail people's training that much. able to keep them running, we're able to keep them doing the things that they want to do. almost never pull people out of running completely unless you they're dealing with an injury that that is going to seriously impact them in the future on if they don't stop running. ⁓ You we're talking like ⁓ a stress injury or something like that that can that can really become a problem unless you completely take away the the stress and the stimulus from it. But for the vast majority of people, able to keep them running. We're able to keep them training. We just need to modify how they're doing that while we rehab this injury alongside of it. Britney: Well, let's finish out by twisting it to more of a positive piece, right? Like not worrying about the injuries, but let's say training is going really well. What are your tips for becoming a faster runner? Matt Buch: Yeah. so let's say you're, you feeling really good. Your, your training is, is continuing to, to move along. You're not dealing with anything. And now you're, you're just strictly working on improving your times. Right. So what we want to do then is start to vary how you're using your, your weekly runs to kind of change the stimulus on your body and start to build your cardiovascular endurance in different ways. So rather than, ⁓ strictly for runs, we're going to start doing some shorter duration sprint workouts. We're going to start doing some intervals, really elevating your heart rate, taxing your nervous system, getting your body used to that higher intensity stimulus. And then one day a week we might do, you know, a really long duration. slower paced, more steady state run. order to kind of change your body's ability to adapt to do these things, we need to give it a different stimulus. And so pulling these different types of training into a weekly regimen is how we do that. And then from there, we modify and progress the intensity within each of those different types of training. Britney: Yeah, and think there are a lot of running plans out there now that probably incorporate some speed work into it. Do you have any resources that you can think of that would just be helpful for our audience to look into for themselves for running? Matt Buch: Yeah. So, so I have a buddy out in Fort Collins, Colorado. Um, he actually has a PT clinic out there. Um, they're called up and running physical therapy. their blog and their podcast are fantastic. they pretty much strictly treat runners. And so everything they do is, built around running. how do you rehab from injuries, injury prevention tips, how to improve performance. I've been reading through a bunch of his stuff recently and it's fantastic information. So ⁓ up and running physical therapy, Fort Collins, they have a lot of great information. Britney: your clinic, how do you help runners? What are some offerings that you ⁓ do? Matt Buch: We two different types of people. ⁓ We see people who dealing with an injury and then people who really just want to prevent an injury in the first place. So if we're dealing with somebody who has an injury, We're gonna figure out where the root cause of that injury is. ⁓ It may not even be local to the spot that you're having pain, we're gonna take you through all of these different assessments, figure out what is. and then figure out how we build up your tissue tolerance alongside with continuing to work you through your running program that you're doing right now. For people who just want to avoid an injury, what we do is we start with a consult. have you come in and then we're gonna take you head to toe through different strength assessments, movement analyses. We're gonna see. where some of these weak links are in your body that could potentially cause an injury down the road. And we're going to come up with a plan to help you mitigate those injury risks by addressing any of these weak links that we find in the clinic. Britney: I love the idea of being proactive. Yeah. Yeah. So that's really awesome. Again, can you share your website with us? Andrea Renkas: Mm-hmm. Matt Buch: Mm-hmm. I can, it is total pursuit pt.com. anybody that, that we would see for a running analysis or injury prevention assessment, um, we always start with a free phone consult, just to make sure that this is going to be a good fit for you. so there's no obligation with the phone consult. we're happy to talk through, you know, exactly what our process looks like. ⁓ Get to know you, understand what your goals are, and really make sure that this is going to be a good fit for you before you actually come in and invest your time in that. Britney: well you guys listening, we have one more episode with Dr. Matt where we get to pick his brain a little bit more. It's gonna be all about dry needling. Kind of ⁓ it's for, how it works, all these kind of basic questions. We love to have these kind of one-on-one type episodes so that people can just really feel informed and empowered and maybe not be scared if there's some fears around something like dry needling. So we're excited to come back with that one next.