Latest / To All the Men I've Tolerated Before / Kat Sass

Transcript

Kat Sass · To All the Men I've Tolerated Before

• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Hey, tolerators, this is to all the men I've tolerated
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: before with Navley Katona, your weekly look at everyday misogyny. Well,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: today it's just one of those days that Lizzie maguire
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: was singing about in Rome. Today we have a dream
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: guest with the legendary gorgeous Cat Sass.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: The list of.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Talents Cat has is so long, I'm going to do
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: my humble best to list them all. Drag artists, makeup artist,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: costume designer, teacher, TV and film personality, event host. The
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: list goes on and on, so we will just let
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: them have the floor. Kat Thank you so much for
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: agreeing to this on a very hot day in Alabama.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, you are such an angel. I'm so
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: happy to be here. And yes I did agree to
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: this when I haven't slept for about a month and
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: a half. But I stand by my decision making and
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: really want to double down on that.
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: No.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: I love that I lured you in with a tackle
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: box full of TACKI.
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: Ear rings and I was like, I want to be
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: my friend.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: And I looked through them and I said, why, yes,
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: yes I do.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Since you are a new friend here, why don't you
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: give the tolerators some background information on you.
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, like my like where I came.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: From, all of it all right.
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: While I am a first generation American, my dad's from Athew's, Greece.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: My mom is from Dallas, Texas, so I would say
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: I'm a Greek Texan. Both of my parents were in showbiz,
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: and I followed suit in like a really kind of
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: annoyingly predictable way, but not enough of it because my parents,
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: you know, they never got there. I mean they got
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: this shit together.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: They're kind of amazing, but they're not business people, you
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: know what I mean.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: And I kind of I'm from everywhere. I'm from nowhere.
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: I've traveled a lot, and I've kind of everywhere I've gone, I've.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: Been everyone's friend and no one's friends. Like I make friends.
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: Really easily, but I don't really get close with people
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: because I've always been like a little bit, I don't know,
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: a little bit odd.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: And I think it's just because.
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: I, like, uh, have autism.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know, That's what I usually say. I go,
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: it has to be some sortism.
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: But like, who doesn't have it? Now?
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: Is my question? Actually? So no?
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: But my you know, my dad has as it runs
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: in the family.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of artistic unius on that side and
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: a lot.
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: Of like socially strange people as well, or let's say
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: less conventional shall we yes, here we go? So yeah,
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: so I sort of made my way through the world.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: I came to Chicago to go to college, and I
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: was like, do you know what?
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: This place is amazing for making things.
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: As soon as I went to college for acting, I
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: was like, oh, I like acting. I hate everything surrounding acting.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: I hate auditioning for.
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: Weird old men who keep calling me fat. Sir, you're fat,
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: you know, and there's nothing wrong with that, but like, dude,
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: shut the fuck up, you know. And I also didn't
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: like plays, and I was like, why do I hate
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: plays so much? And then I realized they were all
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: written by men. So I was like, and there's always
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: like one girl and she's either sex and dead or
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: a mom and dead. And I was like, I don't
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: think I like this.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: As much as I thought.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: And I had this amazing professor name because Judas Macis
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: who's a performance artist.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: And he grew up with like Klausnmi.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: And Anne Magnuson and all those crazy kids in New
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: York and he was like, hey, do you like to
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: know about performance art? And I was like, why yes?
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: And then I realized that I could be like a goblin,
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: and I could be a goblin who was able to
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: make whatever kind of art I wanted, whatever I fancied,
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: and I didn't have to wear any ugly clothes that
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: somebody else gave me because gasp I wasn't a size
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: for so they were like, here's this poncho and they're like, WHOA, okay.
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: And I didn't have to be directed by a.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: Dude who was like, just be loud or whatever.
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: And I could sort of be my own director, be
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: my own producer, be my own costume designer, be my
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: own creator of myself. And that's kind of like how
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: I sort of made that poring into drag.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: Is.
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: I was like, I was a very serious but like,
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: what is a serious performance artist? I was a very
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: serious performance artist.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: And I started doing performance artist eighteen, so.
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: I've been doing it for gosh a long time.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Years.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: We don't need to put a number on them, but years.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: I Oh, my gosh, there's so much to just dive into.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: First off, you said goblin, and it's Thursdays now I
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: have to ask, do you, or anyone in your life
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: do you play the Dungeons and the Dragons.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: No, I'm not that kind of man. I'm so sorry
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: to say.
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: Like, I don't do anything related to board games. I
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: don't do anything related to Harry Potter. I don't do
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: anything related to these games. I don't know what am
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: I gesturing?
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: Video games?
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: Video game?
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't do any of that.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: No.
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: I whenever I'm not on and working, I just sit
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: quietly and stare at a wall. And that's that's all
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: I do. Or sit in a bathtub and stare at
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: a wall. But I hear it's really cool. And is
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: that the thing with the paladin? Yes, okay, I've been
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: told over and over again that I'm a paladin. Oh
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: my gosh, I don't know what it means though.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, when men are paladins, they are so
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: cocky and just like arrogant, and you make them.
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: But I'm like, what are what?
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: So?
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it must be that you're so sure in yourself. Impowerful,
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: because when men are paladins, they're just like I get
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: to do and say everything, and it's my job to
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: make sure that we know what we're doing.
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: So I only ever run into male paladins.
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: Well listen, a bunch of them called me that, so
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: they also it makes them so nervous that I've been
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: confident in my whole life. Uh.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: I feel I feel like young people this is just
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: a vice corner at this point. I feel that young
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: people in the gen Z and beyond generations have to
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: stare at the wall more often because they very much
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: need stimulation all the time. And they'll be like, are
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: we gonna da da da? And I was like, have
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: you ever considered just watching all the episodes of Lost
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: in one day? Or like, I hear that Love is
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: Blind is in every country? Have you just thought of
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: watching around the world love is Blind?
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, I started Love is Blind grease and
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: I was like, oh no, it is blind. Yeah, that's
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: it was rough. I don't watch That's the other thing.
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: I don't watch reality TV. Like everyone I talk with
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: anything about, I don't know what's going on.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Well, I do remember, I do remember, because I when
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: I am at someone else's like event, I very much
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: do not say anything about the podcast or myself really,
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: and someone must have said, well, namally runs a podcast
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: and then I have to, like sheepishly go, it's about
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: everyday misogyny because you never know when someone male centered's
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: gonna yell at me.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: Does that happen to.
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: You a lot?
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: Do you get yell that?
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: What do people say?
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: People usually say?
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: Like one time I was in a writing class and
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: I made a joke. I wasn't even talking about the
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: generalization of men, and someone said, well, actually, women have
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: told me a lot of times that I too am
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: too loud and too abrasive. And all of the men
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: that I've ever collaborated with have been very nice to me.
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, okay, cool.
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: So because they were, I guess all as well.
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: All as well.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: And I was like, it's like, I like possibly five
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: to eight men. I know it's not more than eight,
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: but I like possibly at least eight. And one of
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: them is named Chad, So like, I feel like I've
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: done the work to be palatable.
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: Why are you screaming at me?
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: It always cracks me up. That's gonna be really like
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: tough when women are like, ow dare you take this stance?
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: I have a husband and sometimes he brings in the
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: brushes and you're like, oh.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, and it's literally always that it's all. And I
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: have friends who I'll voice memo as soon as it happens,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, once again I've offended someone's.
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: Idea of marriage and I was just existing.
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: It's so oh absolutely, And the thing is like, here
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: you are, in your own polite.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: Corner, just a talking about misogyny, which is.
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: A very real thing. I mean, my god, women's rights
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: are being stepped away from this this country left and right.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: And uh, and all you're doing.
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: Is having discussions about it. And people are like, hey,
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: maybe you should die.
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: Yes, honestly, Chess me.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: I know, honey, I know.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: It's so when I.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Said, in my very sheepish way, I talk about every
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: day misogyny every once in a while, you said, well,
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: I'm a proud misandrist.
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: I am, I am, I am, I am a Yeah,
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: I'm a proud me sandrist.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, And that's honestly. It's only only the only reason
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: why is all of my experiences ever and always with men.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: So that's it.
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: I have.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: I have no other biases to inform this.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: It's literally everything that I've ever had to endure by men,
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: and then also centuries of history, and I don't know
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: maybe I am goofy for being upset about it.
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: How dare you talk about a topic such as this?
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: Who does this affect? Even?
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Certainly not women or children or marginalized voices.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: I know, it's so so it really like it gets me,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: It really does.
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: I mean if you just look at I mean, I
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: don't even know if you want to get into the
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: news at.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: All, but if you look in.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: To what's going on in the news at anything the moment,
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: it's like, this is a horror.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: And then you and I are funny people. I'm actively
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: trying to be a comedy writer, and part of my
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: process was like, well, I'll do that thing where you
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: write ten ish monologue jokes based on the news every day.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: And then I wait, no, that makes me want to
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: kill myself.
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: I can't now Yeah, oh.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So can I tell.
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: You while we were working on the movie, which we
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: did together, you and I. So I was there for
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: like six weeks or something, and about four or five
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: weeks in my I had a new assistant and she's lovely.
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: Her name is Cale, and I adore her. She came
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: in and uh, she was like looking down at her
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: phone and she like couldn't look away from her phone.
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: And mind you, I had been working eighty hours, ninety hours,
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: one hundred hours a week.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: I was like crazed at this point.
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: I didn't even have the bandwidth to like eat more
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: than one meal a day, to sleep more than five hours.
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: I was like, what's she?
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: Stick is done?
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: And I was like, what's going on?
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: She was like, oh, it's the news and I was like,
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: I was like oh, I was like, what's happening? And
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: she started telling me and I was like, she said
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: like ten words, and I was like, that's enough. That's
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: no good, that's enough news. I don't need to know.
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: Put that away, put that down, walk away from it.
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: I'm not a micro manager in the least, but I
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: was like, I think for ostanity, we both have to
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: put our phones down, and we just have.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: To keep costuming this movie.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: And we have to just keep smiling so no one
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: knows that we looked at the news.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, And somebody would be like, why, what's going on,
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: and I'd be like, no, it's not for us, it's
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: not for us. It's not for us right now.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: That was so nice of you to act like you
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: and I were like co workers. On the movie when
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: I just showed up for two days and said hello.
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: To everything like a queen. Oh thank you, it's like
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: a princess.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, and I did. I was like, everyone's stop.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Has to be like so happy that I'm here, because
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: like people are going to think that I'm like Susan
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: Sarandon's like law and lost niece or something, and I'm
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: but a girl.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: Rest for the job you want, lid. I my ideal
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: job is to show up and do nothing and say
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: hi to everybody. I love that.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: That sounds great.
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: Honestly, It's what I did when I worked in theater.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: That's what I do in drag.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Yes, well, no, go ahead, No, that's it. I mean,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: that's it. Oh well, let's talk about drag because I
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: don't know if I went through this when we were together.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: But I live in Valparaiso, Indiana, but a train ride
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: away from Chicago. However, I just recently moved from Dayton,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: and Dayton Cincinnati and Columbus, Ohio had like a really
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: great drag scene and I was very very attached to
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: my queens.
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: And now I'm in Cornfield.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Indiana, USA, and I can't even find a Sequin like
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: I would love a wig, a dramatic eyeliner something, and
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: there's nothing. So let's talk about drag because I miss
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: it so much.
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: I mean, drag is something. I'll tell you what.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: I have a lot of mixed feelings about it. I
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: love it, I hate it. I love it.
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: It's amazing. I mean there's a lot of politics back
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: back in it. I'm you know, I started doing dad
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: in twenty twelve.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: And I was not even allowed.
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: I was to be leave. So the way that I
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: ended up being drag is really random. I was, of
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: course a performance artist, so I was going around doing
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: my funck shit and you know, just making a mess,
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: causing chaos, and I had built a name for myself.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: It was really cool.
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: And one of my friends from college had started a
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: queer theater company that did these parody jukebox Disney musicals
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: with modern music, all live sung, all drag, and I
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: had been to see a couple of their shows and
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: I was like, now, this is awesome, this is amazing.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: I'm like, this is not boring. Fuck David Mannett, I
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: want to and I stand by that you can lift
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: that out and just if you only have one quote
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: from this whole episode.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: Fuck David Manett.
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: Yes my text tone thank you, fuck you David Mannett.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: But instead of that, you have like all of these
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: like queer people.
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: Seeing their hearts out, wearing crazy shit and just having
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: this wonderful time. And it was very rag tag, but
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: it was very like hard working and just like bootstraps
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: kind of situation. And he called me in to audition
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: for the Queen of Hearts. It was an Alice in
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: Wonderland parody. And he was like and and he was like,
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: you know, this part was written for a man to play,
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: but I can't help but think that you would be
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: good a good fit for this, and like maybe that
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: would have offended a different person. But I, throughout my
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: throughout my theatrical career, played a lot of gender bandie roles,
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: even though even though I never really saw even when
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: I did a Shakespeare I played Viola in twelfth Night,
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: who plays a man the whole time? You know?
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: And so I was very like.
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: I was, I was nervous about it because I was like,
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: I don't think I'm allowed to be a drag queen.
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: But I really want to make new friends, I really
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: want to sing, I really want to sing with other people. Like,
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: one thing about me is I love collaborating. I will
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: always seek out collaboration. So I was like, let me
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: go try this. So I auditioned and immediately they cast
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: me and we were off to the races. The shows
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: were successful. That show ran for a year, I think,
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: and then we did snowlighte Into Seven Drag Queens and
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: that ran for like eight years. The last one I
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: did was in twenty nineteen, and so it was and
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: of course I played the evil queen in it, so
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: they had me. When I look back on it, it's
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: kind of curious, right, they had me play all these
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: evil villain roles as a man, playing as a woman,
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: playing a man playing a woman, and I was the
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: bad guy and I was the woman in the show.
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: I think that's kind of interesting now that I think
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: about it. And these shows Honey Day were sold out,
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: like we had you know, gay men and women and
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: bachelorettes would show up and just like sing along, sing
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: their hearts out. And I had some drag queens show
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: up and watch the show and it was I think
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: it was kim Chi Valentine, Valentine Valentine, Oh god, what
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: is her last name? Some queen named Valentine, chakehul A
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: and t Rex who no longer does drag, and they
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: showed up and watched the show at one of the shows,
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: I think it was snow White, and afterwards they were like,
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: you should come do drag and I was like, oh,
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: I don't think I'm a They wouldn't even put me
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: on the poster for this show. I was helping to
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: sell these shows out and they're like, listen.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: We're just gonna put the drag queen, the real drag.
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: Queens on them.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: And mind you, some of these queens I.
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: Worked with were honey, they were not cute, and they
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: were on the they were on the poster before me
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: then and uh. And so I went and I started
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: doing drag at Berlin nightclub. I did it under my
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: real name because I didn't even think that I could
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: have a chance at this, you know. And and the
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: reason that I kept.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: Going is because it made a lot of men mad.
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: That's actually like, had men been like we accept you,
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: You're welcome here, Diva, have a great time, be a
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: be in this space as long as you want to,
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: I probably wouldn't stop.
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: Yes, my heart beats run on spite, yes, no, but
• 19:54
  Speaker 5: and honestly, all that is to say, like, as much
• 19:57
  Speaker 5: as I joke, I truly fell.
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: In love with the art form.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: I love drag. I love it.
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: It is such an incredible art form in which you
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: make yourself. You don't you're not beholden to any rules.
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: You're not beholden to how you look, You're not beholden
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: to your gender, You're not beholden to your shape or
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: size or anything, because you could make yourself into anything
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: you want to. It's this amazing permission to be your
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: own self creation. And I think that's what I absolutely
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: loved about it. And you know, to be honest. On
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: the other hand, the.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: People that made my drag career too.
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: Were also met and you know, it was they were
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: the ones that like pushed me forward for jobs and
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: pushed me forward for opportunities and gave me opportunities where
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: there weren't before I made it. I did a lot
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: of firsts as a person presenting them who could be
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: described as a woman, you know, and it was it
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: was powerful and it was really hard. It was like
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: being a it was like being a like a quarterback
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: but having no protection. That's what it felt like, that's
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: literally what it felt like. Even though I was protected
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: in a lot of ways, it still felt very raw
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: and scary and like naked, and it was definitely like
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: a it's I don't know, it's been a really tough journey.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: I you know, I never considered quitting until like twenty twenty,
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: and then I was like, and then a bunch of times,
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: you know, I have wanted to quit, but tat Sass,
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: who I view.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: As separate from myself, has.
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: Continued to like give me courage, give me opportunities, give
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: me give and I try and be good to that
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: little critter that lives inside of me as well. And
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: I try and be gentle with Cat's ass because I
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: made her on accident. It was like the opposite of whatever.
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: It was, like the opposite of Frankenstein's Monster. It was
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: I literally just made her on accident, If that makes
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: any sense.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of things end up being
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: by accident for me too.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, how so.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Well, So this.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Podcast was supposed to originally just literally be about men
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: that I had dated or had to have interacted with.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: And I had a co host at the time, and
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: then she quit, and then I was like oh, I
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: guess I gotta like either quit or figure it out.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: And I was like, well, what if I instead of
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: being mad at the men I know, I'm mad at
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: all of them?
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because you'll run out of men that.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: You know, true, especially now when I don't and when
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: I actively don't seek their company, like and and.
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: Like, I think it's so.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: It's so transparent to be like a lot of men
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: helped me alone in my career because the reason why
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: I forgive all of those women who scream at me
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: that they know at least one good man is because
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: you know, we have to be mushed in them if
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: we I mean, it was a man who picked me
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: up out of obscurity at a theater event that got
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: me out of teaching and put me on my theater
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: and performance track.
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, I mean, And we can thank them and
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: love them, but on the you know, it also stands
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: to reason that why are they there to be able
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: to do that, right, because of the structure is put
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: in place that put them there, right, because the cushion
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: of safety that they have to be Yes, I choose you,
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: I help you.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, And then the lack of self awareness
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: that they have because the guy who did pluck me
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: out of obscurity from teaching was one of the most
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: insecure individuals I had ever met. So anytime I was
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: charming or pretty or talented or whatever, he was like,
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: I just don't understand why you're choosing to ruin my
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: day today, And I was like, I was breathing, but okay.
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: Wow, he sounds like fun.
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: I think that that's also how like things happen kind
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: of when you're not intending them to, because it's like
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: I almost don't want I'm so grateful and also not
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: grateful at all for his position in my life.
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: I get it.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard, and I can't imagine in the year
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: of twenty in Our Lord and Savior Chapel Roones twenty
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: twenty five that being a drag artist it. The thing
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: that always got me about the drag community is that
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: it truly is a community. And when I was going
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: to my drag brunches and my drag shows in Dayton,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: my ticket price usually went to whatever charity they were
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: partnering with that day, and like it was like the
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: local Humane Society for dogs, the food pantries, like they
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: would just find them and then I would be like,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: I didn't even know that this was in my neighborhood,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: let alone next door. And there's such a sense of
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: community within the queer community and drag that I think
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: that I think that's why it gets such vitriol. And
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: I think it's because, like the heteronormative complex that we
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: find ourselves in in our current culture is so filled
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: with like shame and guilt that they look at people
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: just like having fun in an outfit that they themselves created,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: and they're like, I hate that because that's never gonna
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: be me, but it could be.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I mean there there have been so many.
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: People that I brought into drag or done drag for
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: that would have never otherwise seen drag, and they found
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: themselves having a wonderful time, and they found themselves feeling
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: really dislike connected, and I think that that's what people
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: are looking for. I don't think that, you know, and
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: I could say a lot of things about the drag
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: community and whatever that means, because I've experienced a lot
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: of positive and a lot.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: Of very negative faiths from quote.
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: Unquote community, and so I don't I think I have
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: a pretty like I would say, pragmatic view of what
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: community is for queer people, being you know, an elder
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: queer myself and having been through the ringer. But I
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: do what I do, what I can say about us,
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: as as imperfect as we are, as wild and difficult
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: as we are, we do try to find each other,
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: and we do find each other, and we do try
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: to help each other, I think, by and large, and
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: I think that that's what sets us apart. And I
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: do think that that's might might be part of what
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: lends to that sort of thing that you were talking
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: about about, you know, people who feel like they can't
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: take part in it. I think that's the thing. Like
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: you know, it's always been peculiar to me how a
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: section of our society will sexualize drag like it's not.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: I've never I have seen thousands.
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: Of drags performances, and I've never seen anything more sexual
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: than anything Britney Spears has ever done. Maybe some grotesqueries,
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: but you would never see that. You would never see
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: that outside of a weird little hole in the wild
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: nightclub where you're going to go look for grotesqueries, you know,
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: And people don't even do shock jock art like that
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: right now anymore, especially with how crazy things are, so
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: you would be very hard pressed, like and to find
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: things that were like untoled in drag like and especially
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: as we I hate to say it, as we become
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: a less literate and educated society, which is intentionally being
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: done to us and not the fault of the people
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: that are experiencing it.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: But as that's happening, the references are.
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: Becoming narrower and narrower and narrower and narrower, and the
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: references you know, when you see drag, they're becoming more.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: Just incredibly purely topical.
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: So when you get that, like, I'm sorry, you're just
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: not gonna get a bunch of offensive ship.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: You're just not You're.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: Gonna get You're gonna get a cute little Sabrina Carpenter joke.
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: You're gonna get a little Tutalu you know, uh, Taylor
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: Swift Starbucks joke. You're gonna get a little whatever what
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: have you. You're you know so, and like every society
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: and history of the world ever has had clowns. So
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: it's sort of funny that we're trying to destroy ours.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: In this day and age and you know not and
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: at the same.
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: Ghosts for like people in the public eye in general,
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: who make funny hajas and who entertain like they're you know,
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: I think it's a miracle that artists get anything done
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: at all, right now, you know what I mean? Like
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: I know, honestly, I just think it's a total miracle
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: that anything gets done at all because.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: There's no money in it.
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: And I know I'm sounding like a doomsday person, but
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: I'm not trying to.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: It's just the state of things right now. It'll change again.
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: No, It's true. I finished.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Writing my first pilot this year and I had my
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: friend read it to be like, I need to know
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: if I go I was trying to be so gentle
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: and so funny about sex work, but I need you
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: to read it to see if I was being tacky
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: and hurtful. And I was like, it's that my main
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: female character is broke and she has to move back
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: home because she's in a bunch of credit card debt
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: and all of it. So she keeps to upset her
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: older mom and her aunt making feet pick jokes, and
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: then someone says something along the lines of Donna's oldest
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: is on and whatever I made up for feet Finder,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: and she's taking the entire family to the Bahamas this year,
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: but Donna doesn't know how to feel about it. And
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: then my character goes, does everyone have better feet than me?
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: Her mom's like, what what are you talking about? Don't
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: tell me you did that? And I go, well, I
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: didn't do it.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: Well, oh god, I get it.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, because it's either I don't want to
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: hurt a marginalized group ever, but I do crave funny
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: ha haas.
• 31:24
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, absolutely, and I don't go ahead, Oh.
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: How do you? And so how do you walk that line?
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: What do you do?
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: What do you do?
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: And also I feel like as the breakdown of literacy
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: happens and it is purposeful and I can go on
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: those ramp for hours. As a formal former teacher who
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: left the field at the tip of making our population
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: dumber and less able to comprehend anything that's going on,
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: I feel like without those like grounded you know, just references,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: I always I'm afraid to tell people that my favorite
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: movie is Drop Dead Gorgeous. Yeah, as like agen Zer
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: could never watch the preview of Drop Dead Gorgeous and
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: then respect me afterwards when I'm like, that's my favorite movie.
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there's definitely a lot of those like
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: hand ringing ass conversations that the youth will have, and
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: they're gonna see that they're just painting themselves into a corner.
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: I worry about the future of satire all the time.
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: Oh, I mean, good luck to us, Like, I don't
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: really know what to say, like I this is why
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: I don't make a lot of This is why I'm
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: not making a lot right now. Like I mean, I
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: am making a lot, but it's all visual and it's
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: just visuals because I.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: Don't know what to say that.
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: Could possibly be helpful or understood right now. And that's
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: not to say that that's not to say that, Ooh,
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: I'm so smart, the kids are so dumb.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: They're really not.
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: They're very They're very They're a very interesting and cool
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: generation or a couple of generations. They've been dealt a
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: really horrific hand, and at least we had I'm assuming
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: we're in the same generation.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: Are you a millennial?
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: Yes, I'm going to be thirty seven on Christmas.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, you're born on Christmas?
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: Yes, And that's where it all went wrong for me.
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: Oh, are you a Capricorn?
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: I am a Capricorn, and then I'm a capricorn like
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: high ability eldest daughter. And you have to have you
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: ever tried to compete with Jesus on a large scale?
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: I have you seen my drag?
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: Then you know how hard of a cross set is
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: to be.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: He was a little room.
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: You're an eldest daughter.
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: Too, Oh are you?
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: Yes? Oh?
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, yes, that's why we that's why we
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: sold connected. Yes, I have been on a year of
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: just like understanding how to unpack all of the eldest
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: trump daughter responsibilities because I always just thought I was helpful.
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: Like in what way?
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: Hopeful in what way?
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: So I thought that I was helpful in the way
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: that like, I am very much a girl who is game.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: So if you say, hey, Nadley, I want to completely
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: change the entire look of my bedroom, could you please
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: slap some paint on the little walls? And I promise
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: I'll play the New Florence and the Machine Albow. So
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: you're pretending to have a good time, I'm like, yep,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: because I'm game and I have boundless energy. Except for
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: it's hard to have boundless energy now when you're thirty six.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not easy.
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: It's not easy.
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: I try give a tip out there to all oldest
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: daughters everywhere.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, okay, it has worked.
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: So well for me, and I really hope my family
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: doesn't listen to this, because then they'll know my gambit.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: But I just what. I just pretend that I can't do.
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: Anything and I don't know how to do anything, and
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: whenever they ask me to do something, I start crying
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: and so and I'm not a crier actually really that much.
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: I cry when it's appropriate. But because of that, everyone
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: is so nice to me, and they don't make me
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: do things.
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: You white man weaponized incompetence them.
• 35:54
  Speaker 6: I think that's why men are not at me, because
• 35:56
  Speaker 6: I just use their own weapons, I guess them. Oh
• 36:01
  Speaker 6: my god, Natalie, did we just unpack something here for
• 36:04
  Speaker 6: me that's massive?
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, I think we solved misogyny and I think it
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: was And I have said before the best way to
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: not be gas lit is to out gaslight the gaslighter.
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: And people have told me no, Natalia, and I'm like,
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: why not.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: I'm just a girl with a microphone.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: I'm just trying to have fun. What do you mean
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: I can't feel like I didn't look at your phone
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: your phone was sitting there. I don't like, I don't know,
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: why can't I I'm smarter than them. I should get
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: to out gaslight them. They're not even good at it.
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean I just I found that so much,
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: like so much has come out of being super aggressive
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: in the way that I work and then playing dumb
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: and uh.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: This is again just.
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: Tips to the ladies. Just be super direct and and
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: that's the word, like surgically, like, uh, exactly, do exactly
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: what you want, take the take the straight line there,
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: and then be like, I don't know, I don't know.
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: I've never done anything to a car. Ever.
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: I'm just a baby.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: I'm just an old baby.
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: Just it's a medical phenomenon.
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: These are just survival techniques, sisters.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: Is it just survival techniques?
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: I don't approve of it.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: My survival technique that I've been forced into thanks to
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: trauma is to lean into the ignorance that my family
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: has about entertainment. So whenever they're like can you do
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: this Tomaret too, I go no, I can't because I
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: have a call. And they're like, you have a call,
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: like I do, And I have a project and I
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: have a call about that project.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: Yep, yeah, and that's it. And that's it. I have
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: a class.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: I have a class about a project that I have
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: to take a call on, and I just keep saying words, Yeah,
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: I'm so sorry.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: I have a meeting. There's a lot of calls.
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: You gotta we have to spitball and.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: And such neatly for all the calls that you have.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: Do you think at one point you're gonna make money?
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, I don't know, And then I cry,
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: see see.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: It's just sweat.
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: We're just using it at their weapons. It really is
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: just asserting boundaries. And that's what I found. I'm just like,
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: for example, my parents were devastated when I told them
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: I was going to go for drag as a career.
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: They were devastated. They had come to see my drag
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: shows and they were like, this is terrible. These people
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: are not talented, they.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: Are not pretty, and they are not good. I cannot
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: believe you're so by idiots.
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: And I was like, oh my god, Like they weren't
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: even offended by.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: The gayness of it all.
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: No, no, no, no.
• 39:07
  Speaker 4: The talent, yeah, a lack of talent, yeah, I'm not.
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: Kidding truly, and are sorry to the people that I
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: was working with. I'm sure it doesn't matter when it was.
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: It was at a time period, yeah, undisclosed. But they yeah,
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: they were super upset. They were My mother was like,
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: you're casting your pearls before s line.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: Put it on a T shirt. That is exactly what
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: I'm doing every day.
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: Oh hang, got the truth, buddy, But yes, I mean,
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: and so they were super they were like super against it.
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: And so what I had to do was tell my parents,
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: I'm not talking to you until you accept me. And
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: so then I didn't talk to any of my family
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: for like I think it was like six months for
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: my dad, eight months to my brother, fourteen months my mom,
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: and then everybody was like okay, because they like hanging
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: out with me and I like hanging out with them.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: So we had they you know, I just had to
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: and like it.
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: Absolutely sucked, and I'm now not sure they weren't wrong.
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: But but the thing is I made the decision. Is
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: and you just have to set up those boundaries because
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: I think a lot of times they'll expect us, or
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: the expectation for us, is that we go along politely,
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: we listen to what they have to say, We compromise,
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: we uh you know, we uh we assuaged their fears.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: We uh you know.
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: Will sort of like start to put what we want
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: maybe in the background a little bit so that everyone
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: can be calm and like us and feel good and
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: feel like we're good girls doing the right thing. And
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: at every turn, I don't know what has possessed me.
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: And honestly, you know, till I see davantas you know
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: she's my jack daughter.
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: Yes I do, Yes, I do.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: I hope that she gets a little pain from the
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: heavens every time I go.
• 41:10
  Speaker 4: And then Chelsea Davanta said this to me one time.
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: Well, she and I were an addressing room together a
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: couple of years ago, and she was like, she was like, wow,
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: you must have been your mom must be an incredible feminist.
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: And I was like, no, I had no feminists around
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: me ever none. My father might be the biggest feminist
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: I knew growing up, and to this day, my father's
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: kind of rad I don't have daddy issues. I got
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: the mommy issues. You know.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: I was not raised in any way, shape or form
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: to have these ideas, but they just stubbornly.
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: This is why I believe in past lives, because why
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: would this be inside of a little child where I
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: was like, no, I'm gonna do what I want at
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: every turn, and I have enraged people.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: People have put me in the hospital. People have been
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: in fear. Oh I'm not even kidding.
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: People have been people have tried to destroy my life,
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: my career, uh, and I have tried to silence me
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: and have tried to get me to stop at every turn,
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: and I just there's something inside of me that like
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: won't stop. That's relentless, and honestly, I wish it would.
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: Sometimes I would love to just relax a little bit,
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Natalie, Like I would, I
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: would love to relax, But at every turn I have
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: been in massive pain in that everyone's ass and in
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: terms of just like I am here, I will take
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: a space. You will witness me making art. You can
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: look away if you want to, But I know you
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: don't want to. I know you watch me, and and
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know. I just what do
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: you think that impulses? What do you that feeling is?
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: I don't know that I do. I So that's why
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: defiance makes my heart beat. I honestly tell people, I
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: just call it my defiance disorder, like you know, my defiance,
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: my defiance disorder where I could never be soft and
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: I could never.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: Be chill.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: Unless it was like literally an animal or a baby.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: The only people who get softness out of me are
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: like my cat, who doesn't even want it, and my
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: nephews and babies, literal babies. Who knows what will happen
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: to them when they're five. I'll probably start chainsmoking and
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: be like, I don't know, figure it out like I
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: had to.
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: Kid, You got to figure it out like I had to. Yeah,
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: I don't know about you, but I figured everything out late.
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: I wasn't told anything about womanhood, anything about mental cycles,
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: anything about sex. I wasn't told anything about emotional inner life.
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: I wasn't told anything at all, told nothing until I
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: was almost sixteen. I thought that sex works like vastly.
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: I thought it was like a hot dog situation where
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: you have like a bun and then you just set
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: it on top of it. But this does not make sense.
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: You just set it on.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: Top Do you know where we got that?
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: But? Who?
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: Where is the movie scene from Greece? Because they're so
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: they're in the car in Greece and it's Danny Zuko
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: and Olivia Newton John Sandy and they're watching the movie
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: and you watch the let's all go to the movie
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: part and a hot dog jumps into a hot dog
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: bun and then they make like I think Danny makes
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: a sex sexually explicit joke or something. So then you're like,
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: that's how sex works.
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: I wonder if that was so, though, although I doubt
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: it because I was raised.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: This is for another episode or something. I was raising
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: a Christiane Cault.
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: Oh, so I wasn't allowed to watch anything modern I had.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: I had no sense of anything. I then that's the
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: other reason why I.
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: Just don't engage with pop culture like I know about it,
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: like an athypologist knows about things, but I don't. I
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: didn't have like a sense of it.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: So I was raising. I was raised in a cult.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: So we will have to do an episode about that,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: if only so I can know about the cult.
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: It's so crazy.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: But yeah, is it the same one that Bethany joy
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: Lens from One Tree Hill was in? Because One Tree
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: Hill is my whole personality.
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: Honey, you think I'm entire you think I'm entirely chaker
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: than I am. No, it was that I'm so flattered
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: that you would think that I.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: Would be in a one tree holt.
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: But actually it's just good old fashioned Church of Craft.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Oh not the Church of crast we got fair Haven.
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: Oh it's not great, guys, no great, but yes, okay.
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: So the one the one thing that I figured out
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: about woman because I all of that is to say
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: I did was not taught anything. The one thing I
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: figured out about womanhood is you should learn as much
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: as you can about yourself as you get older. Because
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: old women are the most powerful beings on earth. And
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: that is and and and there's a reason that they
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: silence us. I'm not an old woman yet, but someday
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: I will be. I'm going to be an old witch.
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: And uh and and there's a reason that they silence
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: older women, that they hide them, that they disappear them.
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: And it's because they know the most, They have the
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: most information to impart.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: And so like I actually like.
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: Am looking forward. You know, though I'm in an entertain
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: entertainment and though my physical form is important for the
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: type of art that I make right now, it is
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: my greatest desire and not fear to look ahead and
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: took and to think responsibly about what kind of old
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: lady I'm going to be if I get so lucky
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: to become an old lady. That is something that I'm
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: taking very seriously. And even when I look at the
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: women who are younger than me, I try to be gentle, generous,
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: good kind, thoughtful, giving them the benefit of the doubt.
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: And can I do that perfectly? No? But do I
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: really really make an effort to absolutely? And then when
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: I have all the women in my life who are
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: older than me, I shut the fuck up and I listen.
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: And that's just I'm really trying. And as I go
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: through life and as I get older, it is incumbent
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: upon me to have young female friends forever, to have
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: older female friends forever, because.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: I think that that keeps.
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: You vital and attuned to the world when you have
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: that like reach into both ends of things, and I
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: think it will make me a well rounded old lady,
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: which I really want to read. Yes, And I want
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: to show that you can become more powerful and more
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: frightening and more just overwhelmingly awesome as you get older,
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: because I, especially right now, I think that and I
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: want to know what you think about this. I'm very curious,
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: like the I think that younger people right now feel
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: like getting older is like a curse and like it's
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: the worst thing that can happen to them is aging,
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: and it's like there's no other option.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: Hello, But do you know what I think it is?
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: What is that I think they're mostly scared that they're
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: not going to get to I kind of think so too, Yeah,
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: because I also have never thought of myself as an
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: aged person, Like I'm like, oh, I'm I don't think
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: that I'll make it. And I think that's because when
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: I was sixteen, my grandmother died very young, and so
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: I was just like, oh, I won't outlive Pegs, so
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: I'll never see my seventies. Like I guess I've just
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: decided that I'll carry on the tradition.
• 49:16
  Speaker 4: I don't know. But why, I don't know, I don't know.
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: I think it's like I think that that year was
• 49:24
  Speaker 4: so pivotal, the year that she was sick and dying,
• 49:27
  Speaker 4: that it's kind of like.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: Shaped all of my beliefs and thoughts, a lot of
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: my beliefs and thoughts ever since then. But I will
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: tell you this, I just decided to start being a
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: crone and a hag.
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: Now. I was like, well then I'm going to start now.
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: So what does that mean to you?
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: So a couple of years ago I was a sea
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: hag for Halloween and people were like, we were doing
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: ocean as a theme, and they were like, you don't
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: want to be like a sexy like lobster or something,
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: and I went, no, I want to be a crone,
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: be a sea hack. It feels so freeing older women,
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: especially the older women in my family, they no longer
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: speak in questions. They just take everything and they have
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: a very definitive thought and that is their thought. I
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: told my aunt Donna the day after her son died.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: My great Aunt Donna, I was like, Grandma used the
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: full moon to come and blow cigarette smoke in my
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: face from beyond the veil because she's pissed that I
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: didn't come yesterday and stay an extra day for the funeral.
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: And my Aunt Donna, without beansing ab went no, I
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: know because she told me, oh.
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: Oh, what an interesting group of women you're from. I know,
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: this sounds awesome.
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: They truly do not speak in questions anymore.
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: And my Aunt Donna is my last great aunt that
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: I am close with and I'm and every day I
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: feel like I feel the clock of mortality just because
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: of her. And I'm like, no one tells me numbers anymore.
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: I don't want to know how old she is. She's
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: twenty two, and that's math. But I think that there
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: is a confidence to our crone age, and it's just
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: a we have all the answers. We don't have to
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: question it anymore.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: Right, or like we're so hooked into our intuition.
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: And and and maybe I mean, I've always thought that
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: women are sort of hooked into I don't know if
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: it's the divine. I don't know if it's the other
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: side of the veil. I don't know if it's that
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: we're connected to the tides and the moon and the
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: whole universe, and that the whole universe.
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: Exists without us and within us.
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: And I don't know exactly what all it is, but
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: it I don't know it. There's something there, there's a no,
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: there's a deep knowing. And I used to think, actually,
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: really until really, until twenty twenty one, I hated being
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: a woman and I cursed it and I and I
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: wished I wasn't And honestly, I don't know. Have you
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: ever had your past lives read?
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: No, but I have asked people if they do it.
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: So I had mine read and it was a gift
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: from someone because I you know, post Church of Christ's stuff.
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: I was like, no, thank you, yeah, an the Devil just.
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: Anything religious or whatever or anything like lu.
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: I was like, thank you. I want to sit here
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: with my polite little science journal and I'm not going
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: to say anything. I'm minding my business. Please don't put
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: any weird stuff on me. I'm uncomfortable with all of that,
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: but I've had like too many weird coincidences sense for
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: it to not be. But there was. So there was
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: this the senora I'll say, who read my past lives?
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: And again it was gifted to me, So I felt obligated.
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: To sit there for this. But then she like, I
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: don't know. She said a lot of things.
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: That were I had never told anyone. It was very
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: weird and she told me that. And among those things,
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: one thing that she told me was she was like,
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: this is your first lifetime as a woman. And I
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: was like, yep, and it's so painful.
• 53:26
  Speaker 4: You were used to being respected.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: Literally, that is what she said to me.
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: She was like, in your last life, you are very handsome,
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: very successful, and very generous. You are a good and
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: kind man. But your ego got you and it prevented
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: you from doing what you wanted to do the most,
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: which is coming to the new world, which was America.
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: So here we are. I get I three hundred years
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: later and I'm born first. I guess woman in the
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: line of souls or people that I've been whatever that means,
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: I don't really know, And I will say it does
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: this life, whether the signora was right about all this
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: or not, it does feel like a learning lesson lifetime.
• 54:18
  Speaker 4: I mean, honestly, I want to know about dating.
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: I haven't dated in many, many years. Is it crazy
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: that's going on out there?
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: But okay, so the last time I dated, I'm not
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: even kidding you. It was a fake version of Love
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: is Blind on Zoom for the pandemic. What Yes, a
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: Dayton sports club couldn't play sports anymore because of the pandemic.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: So they were like, I know, we'll try matchmaking, and
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: they filmed us on Zoom. We cut their cameras off,
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: and then we had like alter egos, like we made
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: fake names and.
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: We did date.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: We blind dated, and I should never be allowed on
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: a dating show because my whole thing is I will
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: win this and I will destroy myself and others to
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: do it. What Yeah, why, Yes, I'm so competitive capricorn,
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: and I have watched so much reality TV that I
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: know how to do it right. So I knew how
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: to do the confessionals and the girl only rooms and
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: like keep the storyline a moving. Yes. So I was
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: producing before they knew that they were supposed to be producing.
• 55:36
  Speaker 4: And I was self producing like a real housewife.
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: Call me Andy, and I love it and so I
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: and it's blind dating and they cannot even see you,
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: so they're just a voice. And I was like, this
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: is like AI am catfishing all over again.
• 55:55
  Speaker 4: I love it.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: And so I would just be honest and I would
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: tell them how I love to go to the zoo.
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: And all of the animals at the Columbus Zoo know
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: me by voice because I chat with them. So when
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: I walk into the exhibit, they come over because they
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: can hear me. And it's happened four or five times
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: that an animal has just like and walked towards me
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: because they've heard me. And I told them all about
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: a witchiness and my love with Stevie Nicks and all
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: of it.
• 56:22
  Speaker 4: And I ended up partnered with the worst.
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: Like we were on like opposite ends of every culture
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: war that.
• 56:34
  Speaker 4: Was happening in twenty twenty.
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: Oh no.
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: And I asked him, I was like, why would you
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: continue to want to see me and also go along
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: with what I was talking about because I thought.
• 56:48
  Speaker 4: That you were interested in it? And he told me,
• 56:51
  Speaker 4: I thought you were doing bits.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: I didn't think that was your real personality, and I
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: was just happy to be picked.
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: Oh my god. Okay, yeah, so that's insane. I thought
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: you were gonna talk about how like Republican or like
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: right wing men really love a left wing girly wits.
• 57:13
  Speaker 4: Because they want to bring us down. I have this
• 57:16
  Speaker 4: whole theory.
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: We gonna we're gonna tame you. Honey, you're gonna make
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: apple pie. I don't know what people do.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: We're not gonna make you come, but we are going
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: to make you see Jesus like. And so I don't
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: date very often, and I think because every time I
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: do it's so traumatic.
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that sounds absolutely insane.
• 57:40
  Speaker 4: And I hate online dating. It feels like Amazon shopping.
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: That's what my friends say a lot a lot of
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: them just stopped dating, like and I'm I'm saying across
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: the ages, I have like friends who are older than me,
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: super rich and successful, super hot, friends that are younger
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: than me, super rich and success was super hot, that
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: are like nah, And I'm like, I'm like, oh no,
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: what's there for the rest of us?
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: And now and now I'm like, well, I want to
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: date women at the ripe young age of thirty six.
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: And all of the media tells us, no one likes
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: to teach an old dog new tricks, snabley, you should
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: just get off dating apps.
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: I know, I don't think so. I think that I don't.
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: I mean, maybe it could be so, but I don't
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: think so. I think that there's a lot of like
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: women in your position who have suffered compulsory heterosexuality, and
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: I think that they are and I wouldn't say that
• 58:44
  Speaker 3: I was also one. I definitely have had public male
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: partners for most of my life, but.
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: I have had living, serious girlfriends. And the first person
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: I ever slept with was a girl.
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: And then I had to be vinced and made drunk
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: in order to sleep with a man many years later, Like,
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: I don't know a sub of Melantle. I was into adulthood,
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: and so I just thought I just thought that that's
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: like how it worked. I was like, yeah, you have
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: your boyfriend and then you have your girlfriend.
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know, And I thought probably
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: because like I thought that, like, oh, having sex with
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: men should feel like you're playing a role or a character.
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: I was trying to be that soft girl that I've
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: that we were talking about earlier.
• 59:34
  Speaker 4: I've never been.
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: A soft girl, but every once in a while I'll
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: be like today, I will be playing the role of
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: a soft girl.
• 59:41
  Speaker 4: My name is.
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: Adette, and I'll be soft and I'll be quiet and
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: I'll be sweet like those Mormon wives on Hulu.
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: Not a Whulu.
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: Now, okay, so Odette, she's a soft girl, does have
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: a does she have a different man?
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: Does she have why this to speaks? Yeah?
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: I try to put on my you know, because I
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: don't really have like a very feminine voice. I don't
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: think I have, for I've never smoked nicotine cigarettes, and
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: but for some reason, like I just adopted my grandmother's
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: like smoker voice.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: You were like, I didn't even need the cigarette.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: No, And I used to hold a fake cigarette all
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: the time and justmalate with it. And finally someone asked
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: me when. Yeah, someone was like when did you quit smoking?
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: And I was like, I've never smoked. Why And They're like,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: you're constantly ashing us with an invisible cigarette.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: Well, don't piss me off.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: And I was like, that's just my grandmother haunting me.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: Leave me alone.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: So much, and.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: So she'll like put on it's probably like an almost
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: Nashville Southern accent, and like I just like lit my
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: voice up and I say my pleases and my thank yous,
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: and I dress like I love dressing in soft colors anyways,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: but I'm mostly like a bold jewel tone girl. But
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: like you, just like today, I just want to go
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: somewhere where no one knows I'm an eldest daughter who
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: holds all of this responsibility, and I just want to
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: be that soft girl that the sunlight hits some in
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: the cafe.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: I love that.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's how I get myself to write a lot
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: of times.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: Really, Yeah, I'm just I'm just.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: I'm just a girl my screenplay.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: I'm just doing my little writing.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: I just but I have to pull this sweater back
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 3: off my hands too.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: Big for me if people laugh at me, And I
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: was like, here's the thing.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: If I only write from my anger, sometimes it is
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: not funny.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: But ain't that the truth?
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 4: Ain't that the truth?
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: I think that there's something so comedic about horror in general. Also,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: horror is the new Well, I don't even think it's
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: the new feminist genre. It's always been the most feminist
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: genre because it gives women the power to get out
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: of their circumstances.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 4: That's fair. Yeah, so I love horror.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: It has such a strange relationship with horror. I don't
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 3: watch it or engage with it. But a lot of
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: my drag is horror and like and my proportions and
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: the way that I built Catsass is actually like really
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 3: scary if you look at her in if you like,
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: take her apart and look at it. And a lot
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: of the art that I make is shock horror. It
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: just I just package it so pretty that it doesn't
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: feel that it kind of sneaks up on you. I'll say.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: And but but the I think that the reason that
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: I don't really watch horror, I will this is maybe
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: so strange. I don't know if anyone else does this,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: I'm sure they must, But I will learn everything about
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 3: a horror movie. I will read analyzes and I'll even
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: read scholarly journals about it, but I won't watch it.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 4: So I am able horror that way.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I don't know what it is, but
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 3: I feel like it's it kind of leads me to
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: my own devices.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: And I don't.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 3: It's sort of like if I ate salty food all
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 3: the time, I wouldn't understand the value of salt, and
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: so I'm afraid of And I feel this way kind
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 3: of about a lot of different types of art. I'm
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: very careful. I'm very careful about what I engage with
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 3: because I'm very concerned about what's going into my brain
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: and what because my brain internalizes.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: Things really really.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: Deeply and not emotionally but intellectually. And for me, most
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: of my work comes from my brain. My dreams, it
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 3: comes from my dreams. My dreamscape is where I'm lucid
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 3: dream I can. I can change my dreams. I have
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 3: home bases in my dreams. I have it's I can
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: I can read, write, and do math in my dreams
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: I have. My dream life is the most important.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: Place that I go.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: I am one of the weirdest things that people tell
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 3: me all the time, is I visit.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: Them in their dreams all the time. You're so.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 3: That's what, that's what, Uh, that's what my kindo says.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: But but my dream life is super important to me.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: So I try to keep what I witness visibly, what
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 3: visibly comes in in my eyes. I try and keep
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: it really chill. I don't know house to say that
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: because and also what I hear and what I listen to,
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 3: because I don't want my brain taint too much by uh,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 3: what I engage with. And I know that probably sounds
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: weird now that I'm now that I'm saying it out loud.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: So it's not just horror.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 3: It's like a lot of stuff. It's a lot of television,
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 3: It's a lot of like various things. If I if
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: I start.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: To feel the it, I just turn it right off.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: I don't need to engage with it anymore. I don't
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 3: want it in my brain. And it's not that I
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: have trouble engaging with difficult things. My favorite films, my
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 3: favorite pieces of music, my favorite media, those are really
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 3: a lot of them are very very difficult things. My
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 3: favorite one of my favorite movies I've ever seen is
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 3: a movie called The Nightingale, and.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: It is almost impossible to watch.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 3: It's so hard to watch it, but it's so exquisite
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 3: and it's so incredible that like, so I guess what
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 3: all of that is to say. I try and be really,
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 3: really really careful about what I put in my brain
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 3: this same.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: Way I am about what I put in my body.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 3: I don't.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: I don't.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 3: And I think that that is what as I've gotten older,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 3: and let me know if you're engaged with this, if
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 3: this makes like, if this resonates with you. As I've
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 3: gotten older, I notice that I have to keep widening
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: the path of my art and my brain. Otherwise I
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 3: think that I could be in danger of a repetition
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 3: of ideas in a way that doesn't have new and
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 3: fresh iterations. And I think that when you look at
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 3: like other artists, a lot of a lot of artists,
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 3: we will just be like, oh, you guys like this cool, Okay, great,
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna do it again in different ways. And I'm like,
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: let me try and avoid that as much as possible
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 3: and challenge myself.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 7: To create, uh, to just create something that feels fresh
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 7: and new to me that I'm interested in engaging with
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 7: and not think so much about.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: My audience right now.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I've always Okay, are you the type of artist
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 3: that you think about your audience or you think about
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: your what you're doing?
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: So if that makes sense.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: So I've been taking a lot of screenwriting courses that
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: are kind of like anarchists, where they're like, don't even
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: worry about what Hollywood has ever liked or the structures
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: or anything. And I am a little bit like, because
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: I'm defiant, I'm like, yeah, I never have to worry
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: about if I'm saving the cat or whatever. Fuck that guy, like,
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: fuck that cat, Fuck that cat. So I think that
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: I always it's always my perspective first and then I
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: clean it up for like, Okay, but was that joke
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: just a joke for me? Or will it actually land
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: for an audience? Especially because I write and I create
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: so much from my own like lived experience.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 3: How do you determine that though?
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 4: How do I determine what my lived experience writing?
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 3: How do you determine if it will if something you
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 3: write is just.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: For you, or if it might land Anyways?
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, well, have you ever been in a situation
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: where you're telling a really funny story to you and
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: then you look up and everyone is like, no, Nan,
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: only that's trauma.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 4: You need to go to a doctor.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: Like So sometimes it's sad, but also sometimes it's like,
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: because I'm writing for my lived experience, I always.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 4: Have to walk that path of like.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: Am I getting so intense about making sure I told
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: the story right and true? Or did I make sure
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: to punch it up and make it actual fiction to
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: where it is a story and not just like an
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: anecdote from my past, or like I just I really
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: wanted to get Aunt Rose's joke in here, and I
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: built an entire scene around it. Does that even make
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: sense just to just to say one thing that my
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: aunt said one time?
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: It's just some of it.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 3: I think sometimes I used to think that none of
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 3: it should be for me, and now I'm like, oh,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 3: something here should be for me.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: No, I think it should all be for us. Yeah,
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: I think when it's actually for us, I think it
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: was like, Okay, So on Tuesday I went to the
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: Music Box Theater for the first time in Chicago. Oh yeah,
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: and I went and saw an independent film. And it's
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: called Dead and he is in parentheses and it is
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: by It was written By and it starred Izzy Roland,
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: who is a comedian out of my favorite niche interest,
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: drop Out TV. And I went mostly because, like, I
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: love Dropout TV, and I love Izzy Rowland and her
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: husband and the work that they do in improv comedy.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: But I also knew that it would serve as a
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: comp for the Dead Grandma Future that I'm trying to write.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: And the story of this movie is that a woman's
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: father dies and she hasn't been in contact with him
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: for a while, and he starts haunting every person in
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: her family, even like loosely connected to her family, but
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: her she cannot see him, and everyone's like, I'm sure
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: that's fine, Tilly, Yeah, that's who cares.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: That you can't see him?
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: And it's a dark comedy and you could tell in
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: Izzy's mom directed and starred in it, and then Vick
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: mcallis their good friend from Dropout TV, was their sister.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: And then Brennan, her husband, was in it, her grandparents
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: were in it, and her stepdad was in it and
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: a producer on it. And I was like, what a
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: beautiful like dream way to honor the lived experience that
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: you put into a fictionalized version of your story, and
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: she pull out says that like her mom had this
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: idea when Izzy's father passed away, and Izzy said, eventually, hey,
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: can I take that scene that you had in your
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: head after dad passed away and you thought, wouldn't it
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: be funny if I started seeing him in mirrors and
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: actually make it my story and take your idea and
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: run with it. And I mean, it's a really great film,
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: and I was so happy that to get to see it.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: But I always wonder, I'm like, I wonder how much
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: of this is like Izzy and her family has lived experience,
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: and how much of it is just like processing for her?
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: And her voice was so prevalent in it, and it
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: was so personal and everyone was laughing and everyone was
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: so happy to be there. And I was like, I
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: think it's the best when it's for us. I think
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: that comes through we have run over? What are you
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: doing with your life tonight? In case you got to
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: run off somewhere, But I.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 3: Do have to go do some stuff. Yeah, yeah, I'm
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 3: getting ready.
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, have you birthday?
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: Can we do our two closing out traditions and then
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: we'll plug and we'll be done.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, all right?
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: If you wanted to give anyone a lesson about misogyny
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: or living under misogyny or drag as a community, or
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: anything from our conversation and just be like, hey, everyone,
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: this is the thing you should remember from me. What
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: would be something that you need a point on a
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: pillow or put on a T shirt?
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 3: Do drag for yourself? There it is yeah, yeah, ain't
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 3: no community. That's not community. The right community for you as.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: The community you build. And people in show business are
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: not your.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 4: Friends except for you and I we're friends.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 3: I mean, I know this is sounding so dark, but
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 3: I really want women to I want people that listen
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 3: to us to this to to to be cautious and
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 3: careful with themselves in the sport of drag, because drag
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 3: makes you feel like you can go in there wholeheartedly,
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 3: jump in both be everybody's friends. We're all friends now,
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 3: aren't we? And it really is a there's a lot
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 3: of no no. But but you will find lifelong friends there,
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 3: and you will find people that you can love forever
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 3: and make art with forever. And that's pretty profound. But
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 3: you shouldn't do it for a TV show. You shouldn't
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 3: do it for acceptance. You shouldn't do it for spite.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: You should do it for yourself because it brings you joy,
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: because it makes you feel connected to your spirit, to art,
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: to your queerness. Whatever.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: What is something that you'd like to manifest for the
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: common universal energy?
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 3: I think that it would be I think that things
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 3: would massively improve if women were in positions of power,
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 3: and so I would like to manifest positions of power
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 3: for women and a radical change or the structures that
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 3: we live in, because the structures that we live in
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 3: are harmful to live in and are harmful to men.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 3: They're harmful to everyone. They're not working, and we know that,
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 3: and you know is I think it's a bit.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: Of that sunk cost fallacy.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 3: Situation, right, You're invested in this, You're part of the
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 3: American experience. You're wanting to, you know, to make it work,
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 3: to not believe that things are as they are. But
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 3: I think a good dose of eyes open and ears
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 3: open and moving women into positions of power would be
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 3: really behoove us. And and by women I mean all women.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah everyone, yeah, uh yeah, no, I'll just tag on
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: to that too. And then thank you so much for
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: your time tonight and for being just when I say
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: and I wasn't even going to brag about the movie
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: because I feel weird talking about it, Like, who am I?
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: I'm just a girl who went to Alabama. But when
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: I say that you were such an anchoring force for
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: all of our us wazoos who did not know what
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: we were doing, and that your voice was so melodic
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: and beautiful and like it was just you were so
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: kind and open and warm to all of us, and
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: I really appreciated you being part of my first movie experience.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: Oh well, may it be the first of many? Maybe
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: work together? Good? Yes, I wish all of that for us.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: I wish all of that for us. And I'd love
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: to come to Chicago and have dinner if you're.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: Up for it.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I love dinner. I love dinner.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: Girl can't tell everyone where they can find you.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: You can't.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 4: Sometimes that has been it, where it's like don't.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: Try, No, you can't buy me, and don't try peasant.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 3: I don't know. My social media is at kat dot sass.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 3: I'm making a bunch of stuff, but I don't want
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 3: to talk about it. It's a secret.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: I love secrets, so you have to follow to figure
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: out the secrets. And we're at men. I've tolerated pod
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: on Instagram and Namley K one two four on TikTok
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: if TikTok still exists, and remember, tolerators, you have to
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: smile through anything you're tolerating, including a bunch of bullshit
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: going on into five that makes you feel like art
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: is impossible to make and that you shouldn't be making
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: anything about you, make everything about you.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 4: Smiles are for joy.