Latest / Roast the Post Podcast / Talent Shortage or Broken Hiring? | Grounds for Discussion

Transcript

Talent Shortage or Broken Hiring? | Grounds for Discussion · Roast the Post Podcast

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: The source is Express Employment Professionals, a
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Harris poll, HR News Canada.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: and basically it's... what if the talent shortage is actually a hiring process
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: problem?
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that this is
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: quite suitable for us here.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: So a survey found that forty-four percent of US hiring managers have roles they
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: cannot fill.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yet about 21% of open jobs ultimately close without anyone being hired.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Canadian findings showed a similar pattern, raising the possibility that at least
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: part of
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: the perceived talent shortage is being created by the way organizations hire.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Can I get an amen on that?
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: before we call something a talent shortage, what evidence should an organization
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: have to
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: prove the problem is actually a lack of candidates rather than it's a job
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: requirements,
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: hiring process, compensation, or decision making?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like that's a question I prepared, but I think really
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: it's just whatever we have to say about that.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: And again, going to the chat, does anyone want to talk about that and join our live?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to, but if you have opinions on this talent shortage and like open
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: roles closing without being filled, that's 21% of open roles
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: closing with
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: people essentially saying, we couldn't... we couldn't fill this role.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: So
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: anyone wanna join, have any opinions on that?
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: If not, then Paul and I will just continue the discussion.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Discussion.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: I've never said that in my life.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like we get on a live or I get like a some on an audio record or something in front
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: of me and I say sh*t that I've never said in my life.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's a
• 2:03
  problem.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's because you're a trailblazer.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's... so calling it a talent shortage, yeah, we think about this from
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: the macro perspective.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's definitely not fair to call this a talent shortage when companies can't hire
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: these people.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: But the micro perspective, like if we look at that individual organization, it is a
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: talent shortage to them.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: They are short on talent.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: But the reason why they're short on talent is different than you might assume.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: And this is why we started doing this show in the first place, right?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: We think that hiring is deeply broken and we would like to unf*ck it.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's why we started doing this show in the first place.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I would absolutely agree with kind of what the survey is saying that roles
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: aren't being filled because of like missing hiring processes.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: I tend to think of it a little bit in terms of a lot of organizations haven't
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: invested in
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: the tools, technology, and people to manage the pipeline, the talent pipeline.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: From like bringing them, going out to the market to find them, bringing them into
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: the
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: organization, onboarding them effectively, matching skills, qualifications,
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: whatever else.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't think that a lot of organizations have built the muscles or
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: strengthened the muscles to do that really well.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: And now that it's showing up in actual data like this, I think that's promising
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: because you can't fix a problem unless you recognize that there is a
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: problem to
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: fix, right?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: So having hard data like this saying, yeah, there's a problem,
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: 21% of roles go unfilled because we just can't figure out how to hire people,
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: if that's a known thing, you can start to address it.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope that there's more kind of survey work, research work like this that
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: happens in the near future.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because, who's gonna believe just you and me?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Some people will, absolutely.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: But will the entire labour market believe us?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: And will companies start
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: fixing their broken ship because we do a podcast about it?
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Not overnight.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that forty-four percent of US hiring managers saying that they have
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: roles they cannot fill is mind blowing to me.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's just... that
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: that is indicative of the fact that the hiring process is broken.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: What are you talking
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: about?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: We were just talking about people who are highly skilled and qualified who
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: are still looking for work.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Look at LinkedIn.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: unbelievable that they're saying they cannot fill these roles.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm really curious as to like, what is the problem?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because you can't find qualified people?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because no one wants to work
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: anymore?
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: No one's ever wanted to f*cking work.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Get out of here with that.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what are you talking about?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's not new.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think that the hiring process is deeply broken.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: and I mean
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: we can get into it, but it's the ATS', the applicant tracking system,
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: it's the AI, it's how they're being used.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's the fact that yeah, some people... there's a misalignment between the hiring
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: managers and the recruiters.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: some people are what is that?
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's some of the people who are screening the resumes and things don't
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: actually know what they're looking for.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: and I worked with a phenomenal recruiter who was able to look at resumes...
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: And again, this is human.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's the other problem is that you we have to go back into
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: investing some human time into reviewing the resumes.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: But,
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: she was able to see so much potential in a resume.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: She was able to kind of
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: draw lines between someone's experience and the role we're looking for and
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: see how
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: that person could fill a need, even though they might not have that direct
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: experience and
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: she nailed it every single time but I also think that the resume itself is
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: kind of broken.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: I know people hate cover letters and this is such an unpopular opinion.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: I like cover letters and I will tell you why.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: When I am hiring and I'm looking at resumes, they all look the same.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: and forget about the fact that I have ADHD and I and sometimes when I'm looking at
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: resumes, I can't take in what I'm reading.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: It all just kind of starts to look the same.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so there is no differentiator for me.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: The differentiator is a cover letter.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then you go into, well, that's not necessarily fair because some people don't
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: write as well or can't represent themselves as well via cover letter.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so, and I agree with that too.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think that the resume is no longer the way to present yourself as a qualified
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: candidate.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: The cover letter maybe is that in between, but that's also not necessarily
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: appropriate.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that there is a a reckoning about how we hire, how we apply,
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: It used to be a network could get you a job.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's not really the case anymore.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think I...
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: People have said like, just go tap your network.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like somebody knows somebody who is hiring, they'll get you a job.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's never f*cking worked for me.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: I just bashed my teeth so hard on my water bottle.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like my eyes are watering.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: so our friend Brandi Copeland wrote about the whole networking myth of just
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: tap into your
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: network to get a job.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: None of that is necessarily working anymore.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: How do we fix this broken process?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: How can we have so many people out of work and then so many open roles closing
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: before
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: they're filled and so many hiring managers saying that they can't find anyone?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is a huge, huge problem.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's a huge mess and it needs to be redesigned.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: and I... we talk, Paul and I talk about this a lot.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: What does that look like?
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: What is the new way forward for that?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: I would like...
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: I would posit that at the very, very root of this problem sits an
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: over-reliance on technology tools that
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: were designed and built by people who don't fundamentally understand human behaviour,
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: or
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: how the human element of hiring kind of intersects with actually getting
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: bums in
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: seats, filling roles.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: I would posit that that sits at the root of this problem.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: So then the question is, how do you flip that?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: How you break our over-reliance on technology tools for hiring at scale and design
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: systems that are more fit for purpose?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something that you and I'll probably talk about a lot as time
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: goes on on the show.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then another thing too, I just want to say about the network thing is that
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: if we are being
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: very honest
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: with ourselves, take some time, reflect, and think about who is your
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: network?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: What do they look like?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: What do they sound like?
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: And
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: When we're relying on our networks to fill roles, we're really just
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: homogenizing workplaces.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, but we look into it.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we have more headlines.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, Paul, if you have, if you need to go, but if you want to do more or
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: if anyone wants to ask any questions.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: We said maybe they're reading AMA part of this.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: Does anyone have any burning questions about workplace or human