Latest / 8 Years To Live / Healing The Nervous System
Transcript
- speaker-0: Every person has a story. Some shape us, some break us, and some help us heal. Join Sisters Kim and Bibi as they explore mental health, trauma, relationships, and personal growth through honest conversations, lived experiences, and professional insights. Because understanding your story can change the way you live it. This is Eight Years to Live. speaker-1: I had gone into a coma. speaker-0: I just say Maria Shriver. speaker-1: Yes, yes. Why do we have so many nicknames for each other? speaker-0: Good question. Because medical trauma is one of the most under-recognized forms of trauma. speaker-1: Who are you gonna talk to when I die? speaker-0: He's already telling you you've got eight years to lift. Jump right in to episode two and continue that conversation. speaker-1: That's actually relieving when you said that I thought, No way, I'm always gonna be hyper vigilant. No. But yes. Because I know I am. I think I there are moments, probably especially if I'm by myself or with somebody I feel very safe with that I can just relax. But typically I'm watching, scanning, I'm like, ⁓ danger. ⁓ danger. Whether And not like physical danger, not like someone's gonna come in and blow the place up, but just like this person isn't safe emotionally. Within moments of meeting them, or just by observing, I think I can't imagine everybody does this all the time. speaker-0: Right. Yes. It's called neurosception is how Steven Porgis calls it. That scanning. And so for people that have grown up in maybe unstable environments, unpredictable, scary ones, threatening environments, that's when we're living in constant hypervigilance, where we're scanning for that threat because it's we're carrying unprocessed trauma. But as you've been processing, you've been doing the safe and sound protocol, maybe that scanning is a little bit less. Maybe you used to scan all the time with in every single moment your nervous system wasn't able to relax. Now that you've put in the work, you've done lots of different therapies, now that scanning's not quite as intense as before, but our nervous system can get stuck in that, can get stuck in that hypervigilance where we are scanning or the hypo arousal, like you said, constantly dissociating, not even knowing that we're dissociating. speaker-1: Mm. That's true. And I do see a difference. Like I do I think I can turn it off easier. Where before it would just happen and there's no shutting it down. But now I think I do s I'm think I'm pretty good at scanning and reading people. But then I do know like I don't have to do that right now. I can shut that off and I can try and use it when needed. So that's that's a good good point. And I've seen a lot of that change with neurofeedback. Probably more than SSP or EMDR. What other therapy have I done? Maybe talk therapy, I guess. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So yeah, I think neurofeedback has changed that to where I feel more in control of when I am hyper vigilant. Like, okay, I don't know if it's gonna be safe, turn it on. speaker-0: Yes, it sounds like you've learned to regulate that. To regulate your whether you're in hyper hypo arousal, you're able to recognize, okay, I am safe and I am truly safe. Because before it's like, I know that I'm safe, like my mind knows that I'm safe, but my body is still telling me this is not safe. And so for you it sounds like your mind and your body. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. speaker-0: are starting to come together more and more. speaker-1: Totally. That thinking and feeling at the same time. That is new to me. I think I would either just think, be logical, no emotion, and then I had very little moments of breakdowns, all the emotion, and then back to logical, you know, so it was either thinking or feeling. I didn't know they could happen at the same time. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Same z. Yes. So you mentioned neurofeedback again. Let's talk about neurofeedback. One of my favorite subjects. speaker-1: Let's same love obsessed with neurofeedback. speaker-0: Yes, yes. So just a quick explanation and I can explain as we kinda dive into what your experience was like with it. But neurofeedback is brain training and Let's say, for example, somebody comes in and I'm gonna do neurofeedback. I would place sensors on their head and through an EEG machine and a regular laptop, the EEG machine will be reading their brain waves. What are their brainwaves doing when they're calm, when they're nervous, panicking, and it retrains the brain to live in its optimal state. So you're not panicking more. You are able to think and feel at the same time. It's truly incredible. the changes that I've seen with the clients that I've worked with, with you, with myself, because I do it on myself still to this day. But it is ⁓ a non-invasive thing. I don't know that I want to say thing. It's a non-invasive therapy that ⁓ helps regulate your nervous system. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. I love it. speaker-0: Yes. Tell me what was it like for you? Did I had I explained to you? I'm sure I had because I can't stop talking about neurofeedback, but when I told you about neurofeedback and you said okay, let's do it, what did you expect? speaker-1: I expected magic and at the time I didn't start it right away because I was doing SSP and I couldn't do both at the same time. So I finished out SSP. I was looking forward to it. You had mentioned it could help with focus, with sleeping. ⁓ a lot of the things that I've struggled with. So I thought, well, let's do it like Part of me I think thought it was too good to be true. Part of me was hopeful because you had spoken so well about it. And we know other people that have done it that are close to us that had also said, Here's exactly how it was for me, here's here are the differences I've seen. So I thought, I've got nothing to lose. Like this is this sounds like it will help me in so many areas. And it did. It has. speaker-0: Yeah. So through sounds, like this weird I don't know that I want to call it music, but these weird noises they come in through just the speakers in the computer and then there's these fractals on the computer that are making these pictures. And your brain is creating the pictures. I don't know if I told you that, but the your brain creates the pictures that are being formed through the fractals, and then your brain is also creating the music and through different sounds. So sometimes you'll hear like a psh sh Or the music cuts out, that's the computer, the neurofeedback, telling your brain, ⁓ no, no, come back this way. You know, you veered off. So it's like the computer's holding up a mirror to your nervous system and it's saying, Optimally, do you want to be operating this way? And your brain always wants to be correcting itself. And so when you're holding up this the EEG machine, your brain will start to automatically correct itself. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. speaker-0: And it is incredible because it helps people with sleep, with PTSD, with the way Bill Scott says, and we should have him on our podcast, the what Bill Scott says is anything that happens between the ears, brain paint, which is the type of neurofeedback that I use, it can help it. It's amazing. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It truly is. When I tell people about it, when I describe it, I was telling somebody about it last night. I said, here's here's what I've w seen happen. And it sounds like from the future. Like the computer and maybe I just cause I don't know technology, as you know. When I saw it happening before my eyes, I thought, that's my brain. Like I can't even understand that. The noises, I thought, wow, there's a whole lot going on up there. Just knowing like this isn't flowy of d d d d I thought, yep, that makes sense for me. So but once like I got into it and focused, the music got a little bit more flowy. And I knew it was doing something. I thought, wow, I can feel it, I can hear it. It was all kind of matching up. The way I was feeling, the way I was thinking just started to lighten up. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Yes. I know the other people that we know that are close to us have done and experience neurofeedback and it's helped them with their anxiety, like you said, ADHD, ⁓ sleep disorders. So it's so many different things. Chronic pain, it can help with that. It can help with neuropathy, obviously nervous system dysregulation. So it can help with so many things that we don't even realize, like we don't have to live like this. Because, like you said, you started noticing as you're doing this. Sessions, you could start hearing the music change. You could start feeling different. So if I can give an example of myself, after I did some neurofeedback, I remember if my husband in the past would ask me, Do we have any salsa? My nervous system would go into a mad panic. Not that he's gotten mad because we don't have salsa, but that's just how my nervous system was wired. And after neurofeedback, if my husband says, Hey, do we have any salsa? I can stay calm. I can ask him, I'm not sure, but let's go look. It's not like my nervous system is no longer going into this panic where I can think and feel at the same time. So you said that you noticed ⁓ things starting to shift for you. On average, people start to notice this shift after about five to eight sessions. Do you remember what session you were at when you started to notice the shift? speaker-1: I would say I think when we were talking about it the other day, probably f the fourth session I would say. After the fourth session, I did like I started with the nonlinear ⁓ protocol. So just a very gentle approach. So I noticed some changes there. And it wasn't until the next session that I started to notice like Things intense things. When did we decide that was that I noticed that I had like that big I don't know if to call it a revelation or memory or speaker-0: That was I'm your second intensive, not the first intensive. speaker-1: Okay. So and you're asking about the first one? Okay. So the first one, ⁓ gosh, we talked about it. I cannot remember what I first noticed. Do you remember what I told you? speaker-0: Yeah. I think it was that you were more regulated. You noticed that you weren't panicking as much in specific situations with specific people. So if someone s would say something to you, you were able to think and feel at the same time and your body maybe instead of going to a ten, it started going to a seven, panic-wise. speaker-1: Okay, yes, yep. I do remember. So and it was kind of hard to tell at the time because I wasn't able to practice it. But once I got home and did like my day to day things, the things that typically would make me like f flare up or feel some sort of way, panicked, anxious, I still I wanted to go into that. Like I almost thought ⁓ my gosh, I'm gonna get anxious. And then I would remind myself, I don't have to. Where before I would just react. I would just feel anxious, carry on with the day. But after neurofeedback, I felt like I knew I had a choice. Like, ⁓ typically I go into panic and now I don't have to. I can choose. Which sounds crazy because who doesn't know that they can't choose? Apparently a lot of people. So I think subconsciously I don't think I knew I had a choice. You just bear through it, you know, as we do, you know, like toughen up and you're just gonna power through. And then after that, I didn't have to power through because I could choose not to feel that way. speaker-0: Yes. A dysregulated nervous system doesn't realize that you have options. That's why often it's all or nothing thinking, that black and white thinking. You have no other choice. This is the only thing that you can do. But it sounds like your nervous system started to give you the option. And it is such a subtle shift that it's almost like your brain slows things down and reminds you, do you want to react this way? Or do you want to react this way? It's like, yes. I'm gonna try something new. Yes. Yeah. So you mentioned the speaker-1: Sorry. I was just gonna say even in speaking, I can take more time in thinking through my sentences. Where before I feel like I would just talk, stop, talk, stop. And then what was I saying? I know I still do that, but not as much. I can think it through, pause, go back in my brain, ⁓ and kind of retrieve information where before I was all over the place. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. You can have more of a linear thought. Yeah. That's so amazing. So you mentioned that you did the nonlinear protocol and that you've done two protocols and both times you've done intensives. So what that means is with neurofeedback, it's just like learning how to ride a bike. So or learning how to play the piano. When you take lessons to do either one of those things, you if you're consistent, let's say that you're going to the teacher twice a week, your brain picks it up faster than if you're doing it once a week or once a month. So neurofeedback's the exact same. And it's the same type of learning. So it's experiential learning. So you it's recommended that people come in a minimum of twice a week for a minimum of 12 sessions. So if you can't do that because your schedule doesn't allow it and you're coming in once a week, it would take more sessions to notice changes. It wouldn't happen in the fifth to eighth session. It might be between the eighth and the tenth, just because it's not being done as consistent. And what Bibi did was she did what's called an intensive. Did the maximum amount of sessions per day, which is three, over a period of four days. So she was here for an extended weekend here, I say, in Las Vegas, and she did 12 sessions in a condensed amount of time. So she was able to start seeing changes, but most of the changes I think that you saw were after you went home and you were put in like your day-to-day living, where Things come up, it's like, ⁓ okay, I can still have this linear thought, even though my brain in the past would have panicked. And you've done two out of the four that we typically do. So you've done the nonlinear and then you've also done alpha theta. The alpha theta protocol is specifically for any ⁓ like stress related PTSD ⁓ traumatic events that can start reducing those somatic. sensations that come up when we've experienced something traumatic or through stress. And so you've done both of those at different different points in this last year. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Yep. I have loved both. So I don't know if we want to talk about when I initially got sick or the memory that came up first. Which one you choose? speaker-0: Yes, so let's go into because I think when you initially got sick, I think that will be a whole episode. So let's just briefly touch on you getting sick, but the main focus be on what came up and when during that neurofeedback session. speaker-1: ⁓ I don't remember what session, but I can talk about what came up. So ⁓ let's see. I that was the eyes closed. And you can maybe describe talk about eyes closed. Yes. Okay. So I had when I was eleven I went into a coma and this will be a brief just overview so that people can understand what I'm talking about. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. speaker-1: I went into a coma. So I don't remember a lot of what happened. At least I didn't think I remembered. And so when I was doing this ⁓ specific session, I it was like I went back into my body when I was I think I w may have just gotten out of the coma. So I was just coming to. And I had this feeling of remembering how I felt being trapped in my own body. So when I woke up from the coma, I had so much blood in my brain, I couldn't see. ⁓ I my body was not functioning in any way. So I just remember not being able to speak, not being able to communicate, everything was dark. I was scared. I had some knowledge that I was not home, but I didn't know so I didn't know anything. I didn't know where I was, who I was, just very confused and very scared. So when I when we stopped the session, I told you very kind of non-emotionally, I didn't feel emotional remembering it. I feel more emotional now talking about it. But in at the time I just thought, ⁓ my word, like that was crazy. I just can't imagine say my niece or somebody at eleven waking up or being kind of aware of not being able to do anything, having no power, no control over your own body. And eleven is an age where you know, you know, you know, I'm not two years old to where I can just completely forget. I knew enough to know that I should and I was scared. It was very, very strange to go back to that ⁓ memory because I didn't even know it was there. speaker-0: Mm. So crazy. And so, like you said, you're more emotional now. Like what emotions are coming up? speaker-1: I would say sadness just for that little girl. Some anxiety, like, ⁓ my gosh, that's scary. That is so scary to think that I felt that, that I couldn't do anything about it. I would say probably fear and sadness are the two biggest things that come up. speaker-0: Mm. So crazy. And I'm wondering if because I mean, obviously this is a hectic time in our family. You, you know, one of the kids is in the hospital, possibly fighting for their life, you've been in a coma, you're coming out of it. And now that you're kind of coming out of it, I'm wondering if your brain didn't even know how to store all of the feelings of helplessness, fear. all of these things that were coming up because our family does have a pattern of minimizing. speaker-1: Mm, mm. Yes. And I also wonder if a family that doesn't have that same pattern, I can imagine it could still feel feel very similar. Because you still don't have you don't have the words. I was nonverbal. I couldn't see. So I would imagine any eleven year old with or without, let's say, support or just that communication. I can imagine it wouldn't be too different, but I do imagine it adds a layer. speaker-0: For sure. Especially because medical trauma is one of the most underrecognized forms of trauma. So I I'm picturing if I was the mom in that situation or the parents, it's like, ⁓ we're past it, she's awake, don't even think about it, we're moving on. Because it's so overwhelming. speaker-1: And I'm sure our parents, our family didn't want to stay in that. Like, she's out of the coma. Let's not think about it. Like, let's just move on. And you're we were all in survival mode, literally in survival mode. You just do the next thing, do the next thing. Who's got time to talk about it and ask, How are you feeling now that you're out of that coma? You know? You don't we didn't do that. It just Okay, now what like now let's pray she gets her eyesight back. Now let's pray that she can think, that she can walk, that she can do all the normal things. Not I don't think we were thinking I know we weren't thinking about the emotions of it. speaker-0: Mm-mm. And your body was storing what your mind couldn't. So before that moment after doing neurofeedback, your brain stored these feelings in different parts. So you didn't have a clear image of what was happening, but these body sensations, these memories that were showing up as body sensations were coming up maybe in different areas, and you didn't even know that that was happening. Maybe feelings of helplessness or being stuck in the blankets, or you know, it's like I'm trapped, I can't get out. Can't move like all those things you didn't have an image as to why that was connected because your body had just stored that huge trauma that even now because you did Alpha Theta four months ago, maybe? In February. Yeah. So even now like the emotions, like you got the image, and now your image is being tied to emotions as we speak. speaker-1: Yeah, that's Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. And I've thought about it since. And every time I think about it, it blows my mind. I think, wow, I need to f feel through this. Like I need to be okay with feeling sad for myself or feeling scared, helpless, all the things I think, of course. Validating my own emotions. Because before I before neurofeedback, I should say, I think I would think, why do I feel bad or sad? That was How long ago? I'm 42. Like it's I yeah, it was sad, that sucks. So be it. Move on. And now I think, wow, I had never processed that because I didn't even know that I remembered that. That's what blew my mind. I didn't my I didn't know. Then I as soon as it came to mind, I thought, that's still there. Of course it is. What else is in there? that needs to be processed and needs to come out and I can let my body have those emotions. speaker-0: Yeah. So neurofeedback, what it ultimately did is it reduced that activation, reduced like peeled back a layer. Of that trauma to where you felt safe enough to have an image come up for you. And this isn't the experience of everybody, we're just talking specifically about you. This is what you experienced, where your body now produced an image, and you're able to look at it and be like, ⁓ my gosh, that little girl, that was me, and these things happened, and I've never really even talked about it, let alone processed. The feelings that were coming up as an eleven year old. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Hot dog speaker-0: Crazy. Yeah, exactly. Hot dog. So it's good to hear that your nervous system is being settled and that you're able to start putting words, images, to what your body's been telling you for a really long time. Like you said, you're 42, you were 11 when that happened. So for decades, you've not known that this image was there. Like you knew but you didn't know it. Your body knew, but your mind didn't. speaker-1: Mm-hmm, yes, yes, exactly. speaker-0: And something that I do want to mention is that neurofeedback doesn't force the this retrieval of images or memories. Not everybody has that experience, but it did happen for you. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Yes, for sure. Mm-hmm. And when I talk about my experience, it is definitely personal. I don't imagine Well, I know other people that have done it have had a different experience. And I didn't know what to expect. I thought, is this actually happening? It is. So yeah, everybody, you're right, will be different, I'm sure. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Different experiences. ⁓ and we briefly mentioned minimizing things, or sometimes we tend to make a big thing out of nothing, minimizing the big things, and that can get really confusing for those around us and for us. And we did talk about it briefly in episode one. So I just wanted to kind of touch base because you brought that up just a minute ago, of how you know, growing up, or maybe it was me that brought it up with the minimization. Growing up, we learned to do this as kids. So if our parents are alcoholics, let's say, they're drinking and they get totally hammered, in our minds it can be like, ⁓ it it wasn't as they weren't as drunk as the other day, so it wasn't really that bad. Or people that grow up I was actually listening to this artist that said, I grew up with drugs all around me. My parents, they were drug dealers, so for me, drugs were not a big deal. They sold drugs, I saw them, they did drugs, people came over, that was the norm. And so we get used to that. And we get it's almost like we not almost, it's that we are so used to it that it it's normal and now we're minimizing it. So let's say that someone knocks over a cup of water. Now ⁓ my gosh, the world's coming to an end because somebody knocked a cup of water over, as opposed to they're doing cocaine. ⁓ Okay, two different things, but one reaction is way bigger than what it should be or and very minimized. You know, somebody died, ⁓ yeah, well, that's life, let's move on. Okay, that's a really big deal. So we learn to do that in our family. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I think that also to me adds I thought that this is what happened in all families because it was so minimal. Like, ⁓ yeah, everyone's parent does this, or everyone's parent doesn't show up in this way. Just that's just I would go to people's houses and I'd be like, ⁓ guaranteed this is what's actually happening behind closed doors. I just thought that was normal. And I thought Well we don't talk about it because that's what we do, we don't talk about it. So if they're pretending like they have this perfect life, that's part of it. We act like things are okay. Even if they're not. Even if someone is truly dying. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Exactly. Exactly. And that kind of ties it into attachment theory. As kids we learn, you know, if I have a big reaction, a big reaction, let's say I cried because I didn't get a lollipop, and that's met with, you know, my parents say, you know, stop crying. Why are you crying? That's just a sucker. You shouldn't be making a big deal out of nothing. I learn to shut those feelings down, to not express them, because if I do, I'm going to be disconnected from my literal life. speaker-1: Our mom grew up in Mexico. She was lived in poverty beyond belief, like so much so that she didn't know when she would have her next meal. She her house would get like they would have these crazy rainstorms. It would get flooded. They would lose the roof. They would be have to be out of their home. The streets were full of water. They would lose the little food that they did have. They had like neighbors would be pimping out their own daughters. Just like extreme extreme trauma, whether acknowledged or not. they had married men fathering children with prostitutes. Like a lot of she lived near the red light district. So a lot of sexual immorality, just a lot of things that one should not have to go through. So even I don't know if it's a it's not a town Las Cuevas, Re, it's actually literally Cuevas. I think that that's the name. Okay. So Cuevas means caves. So she lived near the caves. She had family members that lived in the caves. And so women would give birth to their babies in the caves. So this is speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: our mother. It's not like this is our great great grandmother. This is our mom who grew up kind of in the wild, I would say. Like very very much something that you don't I don't hear about often. At least not where I am currently. So ⁓ she I think her relationship with suffering was just normalized. Like this is just what we do. We just survive if you have food, great. You either eat it or you store it. Like a mentality that has even affected me, I would say, with food. That's a different thing. But just to say like all of that affected her deeply and affects us and is affecting others because of these huge traumas and huge I would say extreme ways of living. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. So pretty much like when you learn to swim in that kind of water, suffering in that degree, it's just any other Tuesday. Because you're literally trying to survive to Am I gonna eat today? If so, what do I need to do to eat? Will ⁓ I have strangers living in my house that nobody knows because there's been a flood and they have nowhere to go and they would just help themselves into her one bedroom, not even a bedroom. I guess it was a one bedroom house. That's so scary. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. speaker-0: And if you stop, things are gonna fall apart. So you just learn to just go, go, go. We're just gonna survive. Don't think about it. So of course she's gonna minimize. Of course she's it's not that she's teaching us to minimize because, you know, out of malice or, you know, to not meet our needs, but because that's what she was doing and she had learned to survive and she'd done that her entire life. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Such a subconscious way to react. You just survive. I don't think she taught it intentionally, like, move on, move on, is just, ⁓ there's no food, drink water. There's no light. Learn to walk around the house by touching the walls. You know, you just do what you have to do. speaker-0: Yes, exactly. So this pain, it's not only like taught in that way, but it can also be inherited. So that stress of you know, I can think of like our grandmother raising someone else's child. She had to have been stressed out, her what's her husband doing? And then our mom, you know being pregnant with us in a very stressful situation, like all of this trauma gets stored in our DNA. And that's so it's not just a learned behavior, like it's coming within us. So when we talk about generational trauma, like it's truly generational. speaker-1: Yes, yes. And something that we learned after the last episode that I thought was fascinating, our producer Colin, shout out to Colin, told us, and I might have to read it because it boggles my mind. I just okay, so when a baby girl is developing in the womb by about 20 weeks of pregnancy, her ovaries already contain all the eggs that she will ever have in her lifetime. Which means when your grandmother was pregnant with your mother, your mother's eggs, including the one that became you, were already forming inside her. Your mother's your grandmother's body was the physical environment for three generations at the same time. So whatever your grandmother was living through, the poverty, the exploitation, The survival, you were there for it before you were even a possibility, before your mother was even born. That blew my mind. Yes, I can't I have to read it because I can't even fully understand it. speaker-0: Yeah. So what our grandmother was experiencing with this tremendous poverty, our grandmother lived in a hut, like a an actual hut made out of sticks and rocks and mud. She cooked over fire when she was first married. Any stress that was happening within her body when she got pregnant with our mother was. Then our mother being in her womb was experiencing that same stress. And then by twenty weeks, her eggs, so us, we were experiencing the same thing. I know. My mind blew. ⁓ This is where epigenetics comes in. Yeah. And it's like this is when you stop to think about it's like, wow. speaker-1: ⁓ but Yes. Wow. Wow. Thank you, Colin, for informing us. I hope you have another big something to tell us after this episode. So we have days to process. speaker-0: Yes, because they've done research on Holocaust survivors or like famine survivors. And even though they like the descendants, so the grandchildren of the Holocaust survivors, they will have very similar experiences, even though they've never experienced the Holocaust or famine, but because the grandparents did, that got passed down. The nervous system dysregulation got passed down. Which I know like I've heard our mom say, you know, don't be stressed out or don't look at anything ugly when you're pregnant because you're gonna pass it down to the child. Okay, I don't know about looking at anything ugly, but that dysregulation is truly passed down. And so I think no wonder we've learned to minimize certain things. Like no wonder we have food issues and we can get into that later. But that's just speaker-1: Mm. speaker-0: She was extremely poor. Her mother was extremely poor. They lived day by day. And of course that generational trauma, it's gonna be layered and layered and layered. I was talking to Josie today, ⁓ a therapist here in Las Vegas who specializes in trauma, where she was saying, you know, we do carry that generational trauma three generations back. And now I it's like a full picture. speaker-1: Yes, yes, yes, no wonder, no wonder. That makes so much sense. speaker-0: The hypervigilance, the hyper-arousal, hypo-arousal, what were they going through, passing that out down to us? Yeah. It it makes sense now why for me, like I've been in therapy for a long time. I went to school to be ⁓ a therapist, and so I'm still very much into that mental health. speaker-1: Mm. speaker-0: field where learning about our system and how our nervous system reacts. And I just think I used to tease because at one point I had two therapists, a psychiatrist and I was in group therapy. I'm like, will this ever end? Will I ever be able to feel normal? And now I think, well it's layer upon layer upon layer of trauma, not just mine, but then generational trauma. And so peeling back those layers gives us a bigger picture of what happened, a better understanding, and it helps us to like show ourselves compassion and not to minimize what we went through. ⁓ it makes sense. We can say it makes sense that we're reacting this way because of all these things that have happened to us through these generations. speaker-1: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yes, through the generations currently in our life, out of the womb, there's a lot to decipher there, I would say. speaker-0: Yes, exactly. So our trauma didn't start with us. It started generations ago. And it doesn't have to end with us either, but it can. speaker-1: Mm. That's a choice. Yes. It can. And now we know that we have the tools. speaker-0: Yes, a choice that we don't even sometimes know that we have. speaker-1: ⁓ for sure. Mm-hmm. speaker-0: I just wanted to use Gabor Mate, his definition of trauma. ⁓ Gabor Mate is a physician and he's a trauma expert. He's done a lot of research in Canada specifically. ⁓ I think it's the North, I have to think, never eat sloppy waffles. So Northwest, part of Canada, I believe, he has done a lot of research with addicts. ⁓ Canada believes that they that addicts they've like assigned these blocks and blocks for all addicts and they can live there without question. And so Gabor, I talk about him like he's my friend, Gabor went in and did studies with these addicts in this specific place in Canada where he learned that trauma isn't what happens to us. It what how it's what happens inside of us when that trauma is happening. So I think that's a really good way to look at it. It's like we can be in a traumatic situation and And I might not be traumatized, but the person next to me is, because maybe I'm I've got more tools to handle what's happening. And so internally I can regulate myself, but the person next to me might not have that. And so for them, what's happening inside of them, if it's too much, it's too fast, and then nobody's there to walk them through it, then that's when that trauma gets to be traumatizing. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. So the trauma isn't the actual event. Which kind of goes back to when you asked me or when I was talking about how maybe any other 11 year old would have felt the same way. Maybe they wouldn't. Now thinking about it with that lens, like the event itself, but then afterwards, if I am left feeling wounded. speaker-0: Exactly. speaker-1: That's where the trauma is. But if I leave the event and maybe I would have had different type of help if I had had different tools or known that I not just could be but should be talking about it, then that would have left me feeling differently. And now at forty two maybe it would have been something that that happened, but I'm not left with these side effects. speaker-0: Exactly. Yes. And I think that sums it up perfectly for somebody that says maybe they didn't have the same childhood that we did, or they didn't have something really big happen to them, but yet they're still carrying these wounds because it was what was happening inside of them. So let's say a parent dismisses the child, or the the child's like, you know, mom, mom, mom, and the mom's busy for whatever reason and can't stop. And internally the child's like facing something really big, the mom dismisses them. can be stored totally different so it doesn't have to be these big events like you were saying. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Does it have to be big T trauma? It can be little T trauma. But if no one's on the other end, we will be left with that wound. speaker-0: Yes. Being told to go to your bedroom when you're crying and you're having really big emotions and you have to go figure them out alone, that can really shape your nervous system and shape how you're going to react as an adult. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. As we are prime examples. Exactly. Maria Schrivers. Yes. speaker-0: Egg fiver. Today we covered a ton of ground, but we just wanted to make sure that we let you guys know how all of this is connected. I really found so much of it insightful with how babies ⁓ responded to these different therapies that we touched on today and how we touched on the polyvagal theory. Like I said, everything is connected. So if any of this was helpful for you or it resonated with you, make sure that you like and subscribe.