Latest / Semantic SEO Podcast / Local SEO with Semantic Strategies | James Dooley & Experts
Transcript
- James Dooley: Semantic SEO strategies for local SEO. Today I'm joined with Mike Lovatt, Paul Truscott and Luke Bastin, who are absolutely incredible when it comes to semantic SEO in local SERPs. Paul Truscott, I'm going to throw this straight over to you and put you in the deep end. Paul Truscott: Thanks, James. James Dooley: With local SEO specifically, and with regards to semantics, there is a lot of confusion. People talk about semantic content networks, topical maps and things like that, but does it actually work in local SERPs? Paul Truscott: It does, but what I have found is that you have to modify things a little bit. It depends on the niche you're in, but in a lot of the niches I work in, once you start looking at the subtopics, they do not get much search demand. So the idea of using an outer section to build historic data does not really work. You can end up building a site that is too big, gets no traffic, or at least the outer section of the site gets no traffic. What you have done then is dilute the site focus and increase the site radius, which we know from the API leak is an issue. With local, unless it is a niche where you can build around a lot of subcategories, like plumbing, it becomes difficult. In plumbing, you might be able to do it because there is a lot of search volume around subcategories like boiler faults and similar topics. But in a lot of the niches I work in, there is not much search volume outside of the transactional terms. There might be one or two informational queries that get some volume, but outside of that there is nothing because people are really only interested in the service. That is when I have found it does not work. You end up with a giant network that gets no traffic, and you have increased the site radius for no advantage. James Dooley: Is there anything you're doing with semantics that does work? Paul Truscott: Yes. Narrow it down. Keep it to a core of pages. It is almost like getting rid of the outer section of the site. Keep it really tight. I am more focused now on site focus. I want the focus of the site to be laser targeted on what the niche is. I use cosine similarity. I know Google is using Chamfer similarity more now because of paragraph indexing and all that, but I am not sure how much of that is being used in local because those are expensive algorithms to run. I am on the fence about whether they are really using this in the local space. I look at the cosine similarity between the pages I am creating and the query vector, so the distance between those two vectors. Then I make sure all my pages are as close as possible to the query vector. I do not want to go too far away from it. That helps keep site focus and site radius tight. That seems to be working really well alongside some old-fashioned stuff like TF-IDF and BM25. That still works in local, at least. People say Google does not use keywords anymore, but I am not finding that in local. If you do not use your keywords on the page, I am not seeing those pages ranking. James Dooley: What about you, Luke Bastin? Is there anything you're seeing in local SEO with semantic SEO strategies? Luke Bastin: Yes. I agree with pretty much everything Paul Truscott said. I probably have less of a focus on keywords than Paul Truscott does. I look at it more from an entity perspective when building a site out. There are two things I see making the problems Paul Truscott mentioned worse. The first is when the site targeting is not based on the right hyponym or overall category. For example, take roofing. A business might think roofing services is the main focus of the site, so they target roofing services. That might be a keyword approach, but it can overlook a lot of the market because you have repairs, maintenance and other related services. Roofing contractor or roofing maintenance may be better top-level categories because they cover the different subcategories more accurately. Not picking the right hyponym is one issue. The second issue is trying to go too broad with informational pages. A lot of people want informational content alongside transactional content. I do not see too much harm in that because SEO can be part of a more joined-up strategy, such as building email lists or supporting offline activity. But if you get too diluted, it can water down the whole site. In some markets, it is dangerous. Sticking with roofing as the example, you can easily stray into guttering, window repair or topics that are related to roofing but not really within roofing. That can water the whole site down. Those are the two big traps I see beyond what Paul Truscott was saying. James Dooley: What about you, Mike Lovatt? What are you doing with semantic SEO? I know you're doing a lot more than local, including iGaming, but what have you seen work in local with semantic SEO strategies? Mike Lovatt: One of the things Paul Truscott touched on was site focus. Over the last few years, I have definitely seen this become more important. Years ago, everyone was talking about content marketing. If you were a local dentist or roofer, you would have a blog or guide section and add lots of content. The problem is that every dentist in the UK or USA can end up with similar blog posts over time. They might cover treatment costs, how something works or what a service involves. There will be a lot of similarities, so how are you meant to stand out? I had a national e-commerce client where we had added loads of content. The category pages were fine, but instead of spending money on conversion rate optimisation, link building or external signals, they spent loads of money on more blog posts. They wanted to publish 15 articles a month. They covered every kind of entity and attribute within their niche. They were selling flooring, so they added lots of content around flooring ideas. That then expanded into interior design topics, such as red kitchen with white floor tile ideas and inspiration. There are so many permutations of that, and they ended up with around 250 blog posts. The posts were good, but I think that skewed the site focus from being an e-commerce site selling products to being more of a guide with a shop on the side. The same thing can happen with local sites. A local business might have one core service with three main pages, such as new roof installation, roof repair and another service. Then if it adds 100 blog posts about roofing in general, it can skew the site focus away from being an actual local business and towards being a reference point. Years ago, we used backlinks as a way of validating how real something was, then SEOs ruined that by spamming the internet. Then quality content became a way of validating things, but now there are enough freelance writers and AI tools to produce huge amounts of content. Traffic becomes more of a validation. If a local site has 95% of its traffic going to blog posts, that validates it as more of an informational website than a local business. I have seen that play out on affiliate sites too. Years ago, people thought Google was going after affiliate sites, so they added non-commercial pages, blog posts and guides. I did that with an affiliate site and ended up with 250 guide pages that dwarfed the main core pages of the topical map I wanted to rank. Instead of looking like a review or comparison site, it started to look more like an educational guide that wanted to make money through ads. Then the main keywords you actually want to rank for can suffer, despite having internal links and good signals. If 90% of the traffic validates your site as an educational resource, I think that skews it in Google's eyes. It is the same in local. If all the traffic and focus is on outer pages of the topical map rather than the core pages, does that skew site focus into being more of a reference point rather than the go-to person to get your roof repaired in the local area? James Dooley: It is crazy that you all talk about site focus and site radius, and trying to keep it as on point as possible. It kind of goes against some of Koray's methodology of going wide. I know you can go wide or deep, but I presume you are all saying to stay narrow and go deep on that one topic rather than chasing all the additional terms. If there is one key takeaway for someone watching this who is in local SEO and wants to understand semantic SEO better, what would it be? Paul Truscott, you mentioned BM25 and TF-IDF. People have previously said to use tools like Surfer SEO, MarketMuse and OnPage.ai. Is there anything people should use to semantically include the right entities? What is the one key takeaway you would give to someone with a local site who wants to improve semantic SEO? Paul Truscott: For me, it would be geo-topical and geo-contextual content. We can do this so easily now with AI compared to before. Think in terms of whether you were really working in that place. If you genuinely went out and did jobs in that area, what would you know about that location that somebody who does not work there would not know? Try to link your service with how it is affected by where you perform it. That could include local bylaws, local constraints, local regulations and things like that. That is working extraordinarily well for pushing the Google Business Profile. The content on the site, particularly the landing page, pushes relevance back to the Google Business Profile. That works incredibly well. James Dooley: Luke Bastin, what would you say? Luke Bastin: The biggest thing I have found is getting really well researched and deep on the commercial attributes for that particular market. If you have a business in the solar panel space, for example, a lot of those services come down to finance. Do you offer financing as a business? It is amazing how many businesses barely mention the fact that finance is available, or that tax credits are available for certain types of solar solution. Those commercial attributes, and where they appear on the page, can really categorise a website in the right way. I would say understand and prioritise the commercial attributes. James Dooley: What about you, Mike Lovatt? Mike Lovatt: Similar to what Paul Truscott said, be hyper geo-specific. Anyone can spin up a local SEO site about roofing or plumbing. But some searchers have specific questions, like what month of the year they can get their roof done. In certain parts of the world, that might be impossible in certain months because of monsoon rain, wind, snow or other conditions. There is also accessibility. Some people may live on the edge of a mountain, or on a small island that is only accessible by car ferry twice a week. If you just give generic advice like, “We will visit you any day of the week,” it does not feel specific. By covering that local ground, you cover highly specific attributes. The best way to think about it is this. If every server in the world went down except yours, and ChatGPT could only index your website, would it be able to answer a user's query about your service? If someone asked how much it costs to get a roof repaired or what time of year they can get a roof repaired, would the LLM be able to answer based on your site alone? James Dooley: That is a really good way of looking at it. For me, I have had quite a lot of interesting conversations with Koray, who all four of us know very well. I was trying to play devil's advocate and debate with him. I was trying to tell Koray that his methodology does not work in local. I was saying it is too informational and it does not work. Then he sat down with me and went through a lot of different things I did not know, and that I do not hear a lot of people talk about. He called them wasteful domains. They are other domains that he owns. You could call it a PBN. I would call it a PBN. Mike Lovatt, when you spoke about covering informational terms, Koray would still go and create a topical map and map out a semantic content network. But if he felt there was not much outer section value, as Paul Truscott mentioned, or if he felt it should not be on the main transactional money site, he would define what goes on the site and what goes off the site. He has an off-page topical map, which is what I have been saying for ages. You need an off-page topical map for the third-party corroboration coming back to the site. He calls them wasteful domains. He still does the topical map. He defines what goes on the site and what goes off the site. It is exactly what you have all been talking about with site radius and site focus. He keeps the focus and radius tight and makes sure he does not fan too far away. But does he still want to cover that topic? Yes, he does. It just goes on a different domain and points back. Then that content can say, “By the way, you might need to do this, this and this. If you're looking for a contractor that can do it, here is the best company.” Then it points back. I thought it was genius when he told me, because I had been debating that his methodology around informational articles was not good enough. He still wants to cover it and still wants the brand connected to those topics. He calls it wasteful domains. I call it off-page topical maps. Jason Barnard calls it third-party corroboration. For me, that was the part where it clicked. It does fall in line with everything you are all saying. It covers entity attributes, keeps site focus strong and keeps the radius tight. I am the same as what Paul Truscott and Luke Bastin said. Stay on topic and stay transactional. Mike Lovatt, you were saying if you go too far away with blog content, the site becomes more informational. Does that dilute your main transactional pages? Yes, I have always found that it does. Have you all done Koray's course? Have you heard Koray talk about that before? Luke Bastin: Not using those exact words, but conceptually, yes. It is pretty much a summary of what we have all been saying in different parts today. I have seen people use subdomains instead of wasteful domains as a completely different domain, and it probably has a similar technical effect. HubSpot used to work like this a few years ago. If you did not have a HubSpot website but wanted to connect HubSpot CRM to your website, you used to have the blog as a subdomain. I do not know if that is still the case, but that system used to work fairly well from a blogging perspective. I did not know this at the time, because it would have been six years ago when I last looked at it, but it would make sense to me now. It is a subdomain, so you have that off-page and on-page dynamic. James Dooley: For sure. Anyone watching this, I hope you liked the topic about semantic SEO specifically for local SERPs and local SEO. Paul Truscott, Mike Lovatt and Luke Bastin, it has been an absolute pleasure.