Latest / Imperfect Marketing / 250: Beyond the Podium: Redefining Public Speaking in the Digital Age with Guest Jennifer Espinosa

Transcript

250: Beyond the Podium: Redefining Public Speaking in the Digital Age with Guest Jennifer Espinosa · Imperfect Marketing

• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome back to another episode of Imperfect Marketing.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: I'm your host and I am super excited today that I am joined by Jen Espinosa-Gaswami.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: She is an ICF-certified public speaking coach, founder of Weightless LLC, a former Toastmasters international officer, graduate of the Masters of Leadership program at Augsburg University, jen helps entrepreneurs speak more clearly, consistently and confidently on stage or on camera and get paid for their expertise.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Over the past 10 years, jen has presented to thousands of executives and entrepreneurs and was recognized by Influence Digest as a top 15 coach in Minneapolis.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Prior to starting her company, she served as a certified fraud examiner for 16 years within a Fortune 500 financial companies, which is very cool and interesting.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Welcome, jen.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining me.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Thank you, kendra, for having me here.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: So I'm very excited because we've connected a couple of different times specifically about speaking and you have, I would say, not an unusual or unique, because I do think a lot of people think the same way as you do.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: But let's talk about what is public speaking.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Or, if you were to add speaker to your resume, what does that really mean?
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Oh, what a wonderful question.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: So what does it mean to be a public speaker or to claim the title of public speaker?
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: Well, public speaking in general is you with, probably, a microphone or a camera or something that's taking your voice down because you're presenting to more than one person at a time.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: So that could be anything from hosting your own virtual class to presenting a keynote at an annual conference, to facilitating a workshop where, for a couple hours, you're working together on a topic that's important to the people in your audience.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: But and it could include things like radio, tv, podcast interviews, panel discussions I mean literally we live in a world today where you cannot escape the need to learn how to sharpen your public speaking skills, because, no matter whether you're self employed or employed, your ability to convey your message is going to make a huge difference in terms of how people view you and how people want to be within your environment and connect with you.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: So it will make a huge difference regardless of where you sit today.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: So I love that.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: I love that you include podcast guesting in there, because, yes, being on a podcast is public speaking.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: You are speaking to the public.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: It is going out to way more than one person at a time, and I think that that's really important to note.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: But before we dive more into how people can become better public speakers, I don't know.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, I remember growing up that like people were more afraid of public speaking than like sharks or something.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: I can't remember what the analogy was, but it was like one of the top like fears in the United States.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Is that still the case?
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: Is that what you're finding with people you're talking to?
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: That is the case.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: Actually, I think they compared it to people would rather be if they were at a funeral.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: They would rather be the person in the casket than the person behind the microphone or the podium.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: And I speak from personal experience.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: I did deliver a eulogy for my father when he passed and that was one of the most difficult stages I've ever been on, but the most rewarding, I would say, and for the listeners.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: You will not die from a public speaking attack, Getting a case of the jitters when you're on a stage.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: You might die from a shark attack.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: So just thought I would put that out there.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: There's no bleeding involved.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: There's a little bit of sweat, there might be a little bit of pain, but there's no bleeding involved when it comes to public speaking.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: So when people are coming to you to have you help them do either more speaking opportunities or present better, what challenges are they presenting to you?
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, actually a lot of people believe that they know what they know and they can't get any better at what they're doing.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: And the truth is very different from that.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: So, for example, a lot of people who come to me they say hey, jen, you know I'm already being visible out there, I'm showing up on other people's stages, I'm showing up on podcasts, but for some reason it's not moving the needle in my business.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: So that's one of the challenges that people come to me with is I know how to speak and I'm fairly confident with speaking, but it doesn't seem to be getting me any results in terms of clients who want to work with you, a referral speaking opportunities on other stages in front of a similar audience, those types of things or even getting a check just for showing up for your expertise and getting paid to share your expertise.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: So if you are currently speaking and you're like, okay, I'm doing this for visibility and visibility only, like I want to grow my community, I want to build my email list, that's perfectly okay.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: Many people are highly successful at that model, as long as they have the back end funnel processes in place to sell after you're done speaking.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: My model is more on the premise that when you're on stage speaking, you are sharing how people can take that next step with you from the stage, and so it's not necessarily a hard sales pitch, which a lot of people who work with me say Jen, I'm just not that person, I'm not that sales pitch person.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: I hate it.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: It makes me feel uncomfortable.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: So what happens when we're uncomfortable?
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: We don't do it, we avoid it, we don't need.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: I've had some clients who don't even mention the name of their program while on stage.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: They don't mention their book or show their book on camera if they're doing a video, and that's a disservice to your audience, because I've had people in my audiences come up to me after I've shared a 60 minute presentation and say, jen, I need to change my life, I need to change my business.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: I think you're the one who can help me do that, given what you've just shared.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: How do I take the next step?
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: Well, if you haven't given them some breadcrumbs of what those next steps could look like, if they're ready to take the plunge, then they don't know what to do with the information you shared with them.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: So it's not about having the information, it's about eliciting a response in the audience so that if they're ready to take that step, they know what to do.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: I like that because that's the whole point of speaking right.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, you're there to talk about, you're sharing information, and they want to know more.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: They don't have to do anything if they don't want to know anything more right, but if they want to know more, then you're actually doing a disservice to them, not to mention yourself, if you're not talking about what's next or what other opportunities there are, because you've like halfway solved a problem for them and it's been on their mind and now they're like Okay, I need your help.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: The other mistake I see, Kendra, all the time this especially for content creators and people who are killing it and online space or hosting webinars is they just put too much information in their presentations.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Maybe you've come across this as well, Kendra, but how many of us have attended an event, a masterclass, those types of things, and learned so much that you literally are confused and overwhelmed and don't know what to do next, because they've given you their entire process and you're like I think I can get this, I think I can do it, and then you start trying to do it on your own and you have no idea what you're doing.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: Not all of us are ready to invest at that time, but like it's very difficult to condense a lot of complicated information and I work with entrepreneurs who sometimes are in very esoteric types of roles, like they do spiritual kind of work.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: They do addiction recovery, leadership coaches who use heart centered tools and things like that.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: These are things that can take time to understand, but I think we're trying to put too much information into our audience's heads.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: What they want to know is your heart and how to connect with you as a human being, not necessarily that you can blow them away with your expertise.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: I really like that.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: So I've been working with my copywriting coach most of this year and I mentioned her regularly because we were in the swing of things.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: And even when I was working with her a little bit last year, she had said to me the reason why you're having a lower take rate than you thought for one of my digital courses was because I had given them a big enough assignment.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: They didn't need the next step because they had enough homework with that first assignment and while it wasn't overly complex or overly complicated, it was still more than they could digest and take action on within.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: You know, seven to 10 days before the cart closed on my course and that was like Ooh, I didn't think about that.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, I don't.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know what you think.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's a danger of giving too much information.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: I think it's giving too much information at once.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Maybe right, because I do believe in sharing information and people will find stuff.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: But what are your thoughts on that?
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Is it that they're giving too much away or is it they're just giving too much away at once?
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: Oh, I like this question so I like to think of it as I'm a foodie, so I'm going to be using restaurant analogies.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: But think of it as you're looking at a menu of services, because many entrepreneurs have more than one service, have more than one way that they can curb your hunger, so to speak.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: And so, as a keynote, if you're doing a keynote like a 45 to 60 minute presentation, you are focusing on the appetizer section of that menu.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: So you're offering them something that will curb their hunger, but it's kind of an appetizer, right, it's going to give them just enough to kind of not have their stomach growling, make them hungry for the main course, but it's not going to give them the entire plate of all of the things with the sides and the salad and all of those things.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: So that's like a keynote presentation and that's because you're limited from a time perspective.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: Now, if you're offering a series of classes like that go are ongoing, or ongoing coaching work or things like that, that is your main course, that is the whole kit and caboodle digest the things that they need, leave the things they don't.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: You know that's how that works.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: And you might also, from a speaking standpoint, that might be a workshop where you're with them for an entire day or half a day.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: So that's the meat of your offers.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: And then of course, you can have desserts and other little things that kind of provide a little additional fun or a little bit of excitement for them.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: That might be like a course or that might be a download where they're like I just want the bare minimum or something that will kind of be exciting and interesting for what I'm struggling with right now.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: I'm not ready for all those other things.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: I'm not as hungry for those other things, so give me the small, you know bite sized dessert piece of it.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: So that's kind of how I lay things out and I help people understand the difference between an educational webinar, which you could offer on an ongoing basis, versus showing up once a year for a keynote conference, and how you're providing that information.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: Still the same information, but they digest it differently.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: I really like that.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: So again, it's about being and relating to your situation, the amount of time that you have and the state of the audience.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, for a keynote I'm not expecting a workshop.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: I don't want to be taking 17 pages of notes to learn something and take that away.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: So okay, very cool.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about people that want to grow their presence as a speaker.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: They want to grow their audience, they want to start getting paid to speak as another revenue generator.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: What, what do you?
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: recommend.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: So you need some materials.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: I'm sure you're guessing this, and so here's what some of those materials could include.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: Actually, let's start with what they don't include.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: You don't need a professionally done speaker reel also known as a sizzle reel when you're first getting started as a speaker.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of people are under this impression that you need that.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: You need to have it displayed on your website.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: It's a nice to have.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: It's not a need to have, so don't invest 1000s of dollars at the beginning stages.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: You may not even have footage of yourself on stage that would be useful for creating such a thing, so don't even think about that right now.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: When you're just getting started, though, you do need to know what your signature speech topic and title are.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: In order to pitch yourself as a speaker, you have to be able to describe that topic and how it solves the audience problems.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: For whatever audience you want to get in front of Now, you probably speak to more than one audience.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: I know I do, so you might have different examples of problems that it solves case studies, stories, things like that.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: You may not necessarily pitch that until you're more aware of what that audience is looking to do with their topic and there's some research things that we do.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: I walk people through that in my public masterclasses that I offer every other month or so.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: So if you're listening to this and you're like Jen, I need to figure this out.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: We'll get started there.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: Once you have those pieces in place, then you create whatever your unique speaker journey looks like, and this is something that you might need some support around, because the types of speakers we hear about are like the Grant Cardones, the you know Mel Robbins, the Tony Robbins, the big names.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: They're on these huge stages in front of 1000s of people.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: That's not what a lot of speakers do, at least those who it's their bread and butter.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: Those people have been around for decades and while you certainly could get to that place, it doesn't mean that that's where you're going to start.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: So, when it comes to crafting your speaking journey in the beginning, get really clear on how often you want to speak, and that should include how often you want to get paid or not paid, but still can leverage that audience in a way that makes sense for your business model.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Now, I can't tell you what that will look like for you outside of a conversation, but I can share that in the beginning.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: One of the most challenging things is transitioning from free speaking or visibility speaking to fee speaking, where you charge a speaking fee.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: When it comes to that piece of it, decide on a number that doesn't feel like you would just freeze if you had to share that number with someone and start there.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Over time you'll get the experience, you'll get the testimonials, you'll get the proof that you can rock a stage and then you can increase your speaking fee from there.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: In case you're wondering, like what is that magic number?
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: There is no magic number, but I will say it's not unusual to start at $1,000 for your first paid speaking engagement if you have very little experience.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: Now, if you're a little further along, you've been speaking for a bit, you have a book, you have some big programs, maybe you've got a great social media following.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: You could start at $5,000 if you'd like, but you do have to be confident about the negotiation piece of that.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: So make sure you feel rehearsed and confident about what your speaking feed looks like.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: But that's basically, in a nutshell, what you need and I call this a speaker kit so your speaker sheet, which would have your biography, your speaking topic, testimonials, if you have them, your social media following, if you're a bigger name, and then, of course, the things that you normally already have on your website.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: In your bio, you know your headshots, your bio.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: One thing that's unique when it comes to speaking applications if you've not done any speaking, including podcast guesting, your biography should be 150 words or less.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: If you currently have like a curriculum vitae that has like pages and pages of information about your education and expertise, you need to cut that down to 150 words or less.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: So that's a good place to start.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: And if you're in doubt about that, I mean, yours wasn't that long that I read, but still, while you're listening or watching on YouTube, it felt like a little bit, didn't it?
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: So I mean, and again, it wasn't that long.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: That is one thing that I've always struggled with is people are like, oh, give me your bio.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, I don't know how they're going to use it, and so I give them a bio, and then they're like and, and then they keep going and I'm like, okay, we can just stop now.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: Like, go ahead, stop.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: I didn't realize that you were going to be reading the whole thing.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: It's so uncomfortable, isn't it, to have them talk about you while you're there, and they will use your bio to introduce you on stage.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: That may be a different version of your bio than what you use for the application, so no worries, if you're like they need to know everything about me.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: You'll get that opportunity later on when you book the engagement.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, and I love the fact that you say you know, make a decision about how often you want to speak, because, I mean, depending on how much you're charging and where you're targeting, I mean you could speak a lot.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, I met a guy I think he did 70 or 80 podcast guest spots one year.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: That's a lot of time, that's a lot of time.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: So you really need to think about the time that you want to invest, cause, like for me, I'm already doing, you know, two hours of work a week for my, my short ones and my long, one long interview episodes like this in my long, one long interview episodes like this.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Then, if I add in podcast guesting, I mean that's a lot of talking, a lot of time out of my schedule, right?
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: When are you going to actually do the work that your job requires, right?
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: So definitely think about that, think about your vacations, think about your schedule.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Make sure you put those big things on your calendar first before you start applying places, and I think that being reasonable, cause you don't want to get burnt out on speaking or love the speaking and get burnt out on the job.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: That brings home the majority of the bacon, Right?
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: Um, so I love that tip and I think that that's so important.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: I also love that you're talking about when you're starting out.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: You don't have to have like a fancy sizzle reel or a lot of other things, so don't worry about that.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: Definitely think about how you can put things together in a way that will help you build your speaking business, but not necessarily like be humongous investments up front.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: So far I've landed, so far all the speaking gigs that I've landed and in training that I've landed, none of them have seen my speaking reel.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: They've all seen me speak or saw me interact with other people or moderate a panel or something along those lines and then ask me to do more Right.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: So there are other ways to get that Right, but there's like tons of opportunities out there to speak.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's thousands of podcasts you can guest on.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: There's thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of conferences that you can speak at.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Some of the conferences have budgets.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Some of them don't have quite as large a budgets.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: How do you find what you're looking for and what you want?
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: to do.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Well, that's, that's the million dollar question, right?
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Luckily, I don't charge a million dollars, no, I'm just kidding.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: So here's the thing how do you find the speaking?
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Whenever clients work with me, one of the first things they say is I didn't realize there were this many speaking opportunities.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: And, kendra, you mentioned a good majority of them.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: You know podcasts, radio conferences, association events, galas, foundation type of work All of them are looking for speakers.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: First, when you're looking for speaking opportunities, be very clear, and I've had so many speakers tell me oh, I speak at women's empowerment events.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: You know that's a great start, but do you know how many women's empowerment events you can find nationwide or internationally?
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: There's quite a few of them, and a great majority of them don't pay you, so that's something to be aware of.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Some of them are virtual, some of them are in person, and that's part of what goes into your speaking faith too.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: We talked about time management a little bit.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: I don't want to be one of those road warriors who is doing 120 gigs every year and literally never home, because I'm traveling from gig to gig.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: That's how I'm building my speaking journey, so your speaking journey might be okay.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: I want to present at one major paid event every month.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: I had a client who did this with me actually on, his goal was to pay his business back end expenses through paid speaking engagements and then he it would lead to more coaching clients from.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: He was a coach and so that was his goal.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: So that's once you know where you want to start with that number, then you plug it into your calendar.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: Like what does that look like?
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, so if you want to book one engagement per month, you probably want to send upwards of 10 to 15 applications per month, and applications is a generic term.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: Often there's a call for speakers.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: If you've never heard of that term, go to Google, plug it into Google, say call for speakers 2024, 2025, whatever year and see what pulls back.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: But that will give you a list of different events.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: If you'd like a freebie in terms of how I get started with speaking engagements both virtual and live I have something called places to find speaking engagements and if you email me after this episode or connect with me on social media, I'm happy to send you a free copy of that.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: It's not an opt in, I'll just give it to you because I love helping you find that next stage, but it's really good to say, okay, if I'm speaking one time a month and I want to get paid for it, then here are the events that fit those needs and usually we work from a hot list.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: So and there are different speaker directories you can purchase access to that will collect and curate that information for you.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: So I know you're a busy business owner.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: You may not want to do all the research on your own.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: If you do want to do the research, I do host those masterclasses where I help you identify the process of doing the research, so you can just hand it off to someone else if you prefer that route.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: No problem with that.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: I give you a spreadsheet for organizing your leads.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: No problem with that.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: I give you a spreadsheet for organizing your leads.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: But it's going to be really important for you to stay in a follow-up situation with anyone you make a connection with.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: So, for example, I am part of a giveaway right now and in that giveaway there are 60 other contributors.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Some of these contributors have podcasts, some of them host virtual events, some of them have similar audiences to mine.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to make connections with those people just because we're part of an event already.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: So for each event you participate in, are you maximizing what connections you're making from that one event instead of reaching for the next one, because it's much easier to leverage the relationships you already have than it is to just keep seeking new opportunities, new opportunities and getting zero results from it.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: So that has been a very profitable piece of my business lately, and if you're kind of disappointed at some previous speaking opportunities you've participated in, maybe it's time to follow up with some of those people that you coordinated with back then.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: I love that when people ask me about should I join the chamber, should I join this networking group I'm thinking about joining another chamber or other different things I'm like, okay, are you leveraging the one that you're in?
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: How much time do you have to invest?
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Are you going to be able to get out of it what you need?
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: And I think that that's really important.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: Stop reaching for the next event before you've leveraged the heck out of the existing one, because there's just so much opportunity there and it'll save you a ton of time to be able to do it that way.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Great tip For those of you who want to get that freebie that Jen mentioned make sure you check the show notes, because we'll have some ways to connect with her on social media there, or you can reach out to me and I'll be happy to go ahead and put you guys in touch.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: So that is awesome.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: So if you're not sure where to start and you really want to get going, definitely connect with Jen.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Check out her masterclasses that she has every other month.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Check out her masterclasses that she has every other month.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: I think there's definitely a lot to be learned here.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: So this is amazing.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: I love our conversation so far, but we're getting close to time, which I can't believe it, because this has been so educational.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: So thank you very much.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Before I let you go, I do have to ask you my last question.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Then I ask all of my guests the show is called imperfect marketing because marketing is anything but a perfect science.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: What has been your biggest marketing lesson learned?
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: I would say that in the beginning of my business, I tried to follow people who seem to be successful with their marketing efforts, and maybe you're on this hamster wheel as well.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: You follow someone who says, oh, facebook ads are where it's at.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: So I followed that person for a certain amount of time like, ooh, I don't like Facebook ads.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: And then I had another person who said blogging is where you're going to get your clients.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: So I blogged for a year or two and then I'm like, oh, that's too much, you know, and it's not working for me.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: I tried so many things because I was chasing the numbers of it.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: I was like, okay, this person promises this certain result and I'm like, I want that result, I'm going to try that thing.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: There was a lack of consistency with what I was doing, and so that's why, when I mean I started my company as a public speaking company, so I'm like, oh, jen, like that's my company, like I literally teach people on how to turn their personal story into a business that they can love, and I'm like, okay, it's through public speaking.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: So like, why did I not just lean into that two times, triple time, and instead of trying to follow all of the other ways that were available to me.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: Yes, I love novelty.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, I love trying out new things.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: I'm not an early adopter, but I still like to try the other things that I think might work better than what I'm doing.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, I kept coming back to public speaking because it's the one thing that's always worked for me.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: Almost everyone who has worked with me has heard me speak online in person and it's a model that works.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: So, when it comes to your marketing, don't do the mistakes I did.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: I mean sometimes you can spin your wheels for months, years, even longer than that.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Really lean into your strengths, what you like doing.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: If you don't like writing, for God's sake, don't do blogs and things like that.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: Don't do LinkedIn articles.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: If you hate writing, go to camera.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: If you have a really warm personality on camera, go to videos.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: If you love public speaking, go find those stages.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: They're available to you.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: But don't waste your time with those other things.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: Even if it sounds really attractive and you might get a high return on investment, it's okay.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: Still, lean into what you're really good at and your people will find you.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: Well, I love the quote don't compare your beginning to someone else's middle.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: Well, I love the quote don't compare your beginning to someone else's middle.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: And I think a lot of us have a tendency to compare our beginning to someone else's middle and expect to catch up to them in, you know, a few days, let alone months.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: Right, and you know they've been doing it for 10, 11 years or something and that's why they've had that success.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: And, yes, do not get distracted by the objects.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Yes, marketing is not a perfect science.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's about experimentation, but it's also about consistency, and I love that you pointed that out, because those are some of my favorite tips.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: When you go to a networking event or if you're on a Zoom and meeting up with people and they say Instagram stories is the way to go, you don't have to drop everything.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: You can be like me and just not like to do things on Instagram.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: Come on over to my LinkedIn page.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: I know, jump on over to my LinkedIn page if you want me to respond in a real person and not have my automations respond.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: I do disclaim that it is automation, but that's all I can do.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: So again, I think it's really about finding out what works for you and what's going to work for your business and your audience, because if your audience isn't where you're headed, then maybe it's not the right place.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: So, but for Jen as a speaking coach, it makes sense that some of the people that want to learn from her want to be her on stage right, so they're seeing her speak.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: They understand the value in these speaking opportunities and being on these stages, which is huge.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: So I love that lesson learned.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: I think it is so important and I think all of us have learned it to some extent the hard way, no matter how many years of experience we have, because sometimes we have to learn the hard way.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: So thank you so much, jen, for all of your time today and all of these great tips.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Don't go out and getting an expensive sizzle reel.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Put together the necessary items.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Definitely connect with Jen to get more information about her masterclasses and the freebie that she offered to us, because she's a wealth of information.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: The reason she's on the show is because I reached out to her because I wanted to learn more.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: I was putting together my speaking kit and she was very helpful, and I'm looking forward to hopefully taking her master class soon, and if not, it'll definitely be shortly after this releases.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: So thank you all again for tuning into another episode of Imperfect Marketing.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Until next time, have a great rest of your day.