Latest / Honest Ecommerce / Premium Pricing for DTC Hardware: Lessons From Terra Kaffe

Transcript

Premium Pricing for DTC Hardware: Lessons From Terra Kaffe · Honest Ecommerce

• speaker-0: I loved when people would walk up to me and be like, this is another one of those fifty hundred million dollar funded D to C brands. And I like, that's crazy because we have no employees. We have like it's me and one guy that's, you know, been with me since the beginning. but it was like effectively there's really no team here. But we always tried to showcase the product in a very premium way because we knew it's a highly considered purchase. This is the thing you're gonna wake up and engage with every morning the first thing out of your bed. We can't be putting some sort of trivial or utilitarian foot forward. It has to harmonize and kind of connect with the moment that we're trying to tap into the brand identity, visuals, and how we show up has to match that. speaker-1: Honesty Commerce is a weekly podcast where we interview direct to consumer brand founders and leaders to find out what it takes to start, grow, and scale an online business today. Honesty Commerce is proudly produced by Electric Eye, a Shopify Plus partner helping e-commerce brands sell more with strategic design and development. Visit electric eye.io for more information. Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Honesty Commerce. Today I'm welcoming the show the founder and CEO of Terra Cafe. He started the company after years of working at a startup in the electric vehicle space, and he also kicked off his career in investment banking. Sahan Dilmagani, welcome to the show. speaker-0: Chase, thanks for having me, man. It's good to be here. speaker-1: I'm excited to chat to finally get this interview rolling. for those that don't know, could you quickly talk to us about the types of products that you're bringing to market over there at Terra Cafe? speaker-0: Absolutely. we make beautifully designed, easy to use espresso machines, coffee machines that deliver high quality coffee at the push of a button. No need to resort to singly use plastic or aluminum coffee pods or coffee capsules. Basically wanting to give it everyone a a better way to start your day and be a real solution for people that want to get off of the coffee pot ecosystem. speaker-1: Absolutely. Take me back in time. where did the idea for this business come from? What really drove you to to dive in here? speaker-0: Yeah, the I think much like a lot of a lot of founders that end up starting something, especially within the consumer space, it came out of a personal challenge or problem that I was experiencing. I was out there shopping for a new machine. you know, we were a bit of an oddball family. We had every every gadget under the sun that you can imagine. But funnily enough, when it came to making espresso at home, we did have a manual machine, but to really serve the whole household, we wanted something that was easy. And when you looked at what was out there, pretty much everyone was getting pushed to the same two solutions, which are just within the pod ecosystem, which was really Nespresso was the kind of kingpin of that dual believer. and so that's where where it started. I did see that there was a category of what was called super automatic bean to cut machines that existed. But, you know, they were very, very complicated to use. They were Prohibitively overpriced. And, frankly, they just had incredibly dated designs. The way I describe that is it's like Sega Genesis designs without any of the vintage charm. It's just there was no endearing quality to what they were providing. And frankly, it wasn't something that I, nor what I quickly learned other people were excited to have on their countertop. speaker-1: Absolutely. So how long was kind of let's call it the ideation phase? Were you sitting on this, like this would be a good area to invest my time? let's call it from where you you really had that aha moment to you have your first prototype. How long was that? speaker-0: Yeah, I think it's an interesting thing, right? Because I probably didn't have that type of like maybe early days conviction where I was like, this is undoubtedly gonna be a great idea. I think I had a lot of trepidation or reticence really from the early days. And you know, I think some people might feel a lot of solidarity with that. But if anything, what I would say is that it actually helped us be more data driven and consumer centric in how we created the business. So To be specific to the time horizon, probably from first idea to first prototype was around one year. that still required us to get to a place where we had to make a lot of trade offs in terms of decision making and in what we could invest in. I was bootstrapped for the first one and a half, almost two years of the business. But we really got to a place where we could be, you know, reliably mass producing the product about a year and a half in. speaker-1: Absolutely. And walk me through some of those larger challenges of getting that prototype to a production ready model that you could ship to the masses. You know, what were some of the big kind of hurdles that you had to get through in that first year, 18 months? speaker-0: Yeah, I think I think the prioritization and and and what that means for dictating the capital allocation was really tough, especially when you're bootstrapped, right? Like you're not gonna be putting crazy amounts of dollars to anything, but you're frankly you have a minimal amount of dollars available and you have to basically select only a handful of items that you're really gonna invest in. So for me, a big part of what I wanted to stand out on from the beginning was it was design and quality of the product. Of course, there was another side of that to me where it was kind of the community side. And I thought there was definitely a lot by way of foundation that we would need to set early on to really stand out and build a strong community. But in the earliest of days before we even started a pre-order, to me it was really all about the product and understanding what do customers actually want. Where are the pain points? What are we s what problem are we actually solving? And, you know, when it came to actually building the product and testing it, every data point I got brought back orders of magnitude, greater validation, social proving, credibility that we were on to something with our thesis. But there were so many tough conversations at that time. I mean, even with the manufacturer, the V1, a lot of people think it was purely an ODM relationship of launching something someone else had built, when in reality we did a huge sourcing project for various vendors and suppliers that had the right internal components we could build the base off of. But virtually everything we did design, we didn't really own at the very beginning of the company. Cause I couldn't pay for tooling. I couldn't pay for a lot of the hardware hardware injection molded parts. And so the manufacturer was like, okay, if you can't pay for this, that's fine. but then we're gonna have the right to be able to sell this elsewhere. You can have rights to the US. And for me, it was the way I looked at it was really it was a proof of concept. So I thought, okay, if nothing else, this can be the case study. or, the data that I need to be able to go out and raise money to to really build out this, business and, really solve the problem we were setting out to solve from the beginning. But a lot of tough trade offs at the beginning to really question whether or not is this the right idea, is this gonna hurt really the long term potential of the company and the brand. But I think that's kind of what it looks like in a lot of companies in the early days. speaker-1: Absolutely. It's funny. I had another conversation earlier today about how they launched and a you know, another expensive piece of hardware, oddly similar price points, but completely different verticals. But the way that they launched was, you know, partnership with someone that had done it before, you know, and iterating off of previous attempts. And it it sounds like you kinda entered the market there, but you not to belittle your creation, but Frankenstein together, your V one, through through various what you felt were the best pieces to make the best product for what you wanted to do. Yeah. you know, you mentioned it was from capital restraints. How could you tell the audience the difference between this approach of, you know, trying to be scrappy and using and thinking outside the box and producing that V one of the product? as opposed to, you know, if you had to go raise capital or just somehow you had it in the bank, like what does that look like in difference from like a a a product like this? speaker-0: Yeah, I almost don't even want to talk to the, to the crowd that already has it in the bank, other than to say that I would just be cautious of that. Just cause you have it doesn't mean you should spend it. there are so many, so many case studies of companies that had deep, deep pockets when they started building, but they didn't really validate things early on to actually determine whether or not there was staying power for the brand, whether there was real n desire and latent demand for the product. I just I don't I've seen a lot of that world and I don't agree with a lot of the sequencing of investment. And I think it actually, kind of creates the wrong incentives internally that a lot of people, frankly, have course corrected on too, right? But I think to the people that are are, you know, very, let's say, capital constrained, especially in the beginning, I would I I know it's easy for me to say it now, having gone through it, but i I would honestly appreciate that moment. Because it does, if you actually lean into it, it sets a baseline rigor and judiciousness in the company that you will need and will pay dividends going forward. If you actually embrace it in a way where it's like we have a very high hurdle rate for what we invest in as an organization, it will always benefit you in the long run. I think not enough people when they're running, whether it's an e-commerce business or any type of startup, I don't know if they ever look at it like, hey, almost think of it like an investment committee internally. the same way a VC would think about investing in a company, your own hurdle rate for investing in new projects and new products and new channels and new markets. You should take it with the same level of seriousness of is this actually worth it? What what you know conviction do we have and why do we have it for going down those paths? But you know, in the early days, I it's easy for me to say, but in the early days, I remember, man, I would get a call from the manufacturer and he would he would be saying, Okay, you need to cut the, need to cut the the purchase order for the units or we have to pay for the tooling. And I'd be like, Yeah, I can't pay for that. And he was like, I thought Americans have money. And I was like, Okay, not all of us, but you know, you know, it doesn't feel the best, but frankly, I think a lot of our success today is because of what it looked like in the early days. speaker-1: What is the next big idea that could change your business? A pricing change? A new bundling strategy? Adding subscriptions? Tweaking your shipping offer? Most brands make these decisions based on gut feel. They roll out the change, hope for the best, and have no real idea if it helped or hurt their business. IntelliGems fixes that. It is an AI-powered testing platform that brings CRO level clarity to the decisions that actually move the needle. Not just button colors and headlines, but the big stuff. Pricing, offers, shipping, new apps, even major site changes. Brands like Ridge, Jones Road, and True Classics are using IntelliGems to test their most important decisions and see exactly how each one of those impacts profit before they commit. Momu Fuku used it to test promotional offers ahead of Black Friday and found the version that increased profit by about 28%. Mott and Bow ran structured pricing tests that drove roughly 30% more incremental profit. We use it at ElectricEye with almost every client we work with. And now IntelliGems has a free AI-powered audit that gives you three specific ideas that you can test on your store today. No commitment, no credit card, just three opportunities worth exploring. Head to intelligiems.io slash audit and get your free audit in just a few minutes. That's intelligiems.io slash audit. Intelligiums.io slash audit. To your credit, you got to the punchline before I could, which is like money doesn't solve problems. It probably creates more problems in a certain sense. Like and it it's also t you could argue that using some of these off-the-shelf components and, you know, economies of scale, these things could get cheaper. and but like the the tooling and the amount you'd have to purchase up front for a startup with a nonvalidated idea, you could be sitting on useless inventory, which is essentially sunk capital at the beginning, versus, being scrappy. How do we just get a hundred units created, right? What what do you remember what the first what the first purchase was? how many you guys got? speaker-0: Yeah, of course I do. I'm laughing because that was another moment where he was like, God, this American, I really got the only American who doesn't have money. it was our MOQ that we had agreed upon was gonna be three hundred units, which would would not even fill up a forty foot long haul freight container. I mean, even if palletized, it's it's that's really what you would fit in a in a twenty foot container and that's still almost like an LCL shipment than it is a fully loaded or floral loaded container. So it was 300. It came time to cut the PO. And I had to go back to him and negotiate to see if he could cut that in half. And we had pre-orders, which was great. But I had a lot of guidance from other hardware businesses that were like, don't take the full transaction value of the goods when you're doing pre-orders, especially for the very first run. Do a deposit and balance model. It will reduce the barriers to transact. It'll make people, especially for high AOV products, it'll make them. At least kind put their foot in the door and say, hey, I would at least want to try and test this out, but they're not shelling out the full cost of the product up front. And to me, that made a ton of sense, right? Like we weren't doing a Kickstarter, we didn't do any crowdfunding. So we're not giving a take rate to any platform. so I think for us to be driving traffic and hopefully converting these people, it did make sense that let's make this as seamless and streamlined as pro possible. But just for the way it shook out, even after the first deposit orders came in, it was great. but we had to, we still had to tell him, like, hey, like for the full order, full purchase order, we need to, we need to cut this in half. And he like, you know, I can't tell you how many like 11 p.m. to 1 a.m. calls I had, just going back and forth with them about trying to get a concession there, at least for the first run. And the good thing for us was that there was a high. Product resonance, right? so we did have a lot of success, and that resulted in a lot of word of mouth. That resulted in more transactions, which then put us in a better position where we didn't have to take such a small deposit amount up front. And also then attracted, you know, investors to the company because they could kind of see the momentum and the virality happening around the brand. speaker-1: Most brands outgrow their legacy choices long before they switch. Bad platform decisions do not fail all at once. They fail slowly, then suddenly. First, it is one workaround, then another tool, then another integration that is duct taped on top. And eventually, your team is spending more time managing the stack than actually marketing to customers. Eventually, rebuilding is less painful than staying, usually when it starts to show up on the PL. That's when scaling brands simplify and standardize on Clavio. Clavio is the AI-first B2C CRM. It combines your customer data, email, SMS, analytics, and customer experience tools into one platform. So you're not stitching together five different systems just to understand what your customers are doing. Your database updates in real time, your segments update automatically, your flows, campaigns, and personalization all run off the same source of truth. And that shift is why many brands are moving to Clavio. Brands like Dollar Shave Club have reduced total CRM stack costs by over 30% after consolidating onto Clavio. Multibrand operators like Mark Fisher have migrated multiple brands and drastically reduced the time required to execute CRM marketing. And brands using email and SMS together inside Clavio are seeing massive ROI compared to running channels in separate platforms. The big unlock is simplicity and scale at the same time. Clavio is built for marketers, not for engineers. It is built for online businesses just like yours. And it is built for where e-commerce is going, not where it was five years ago. If you're running email and SMS across multiple tools, or you're on a legacy platform and thinking about your next phase of growth, it's probably time to look at Clavio. Go to Clavio.com/slash honest and see why hundreds of thousands of brands have already made the switch. That's clavio.com slash honest k-l-av I O.com slash H-O-N-E-S T. Absolutely. You mentioned something I I think just now, and I want to I want to call back to it, is you weren't giving a percentage away within this pre-order campaign. You were managing that yourself. So you were driving traffic to, assuming your own dot com, perhaps a Shopify store or something similar. how did you do that? How were you getting customers that weren't your friends and family? What were you paying to do that? How are you getting eyeballs on this thing pre launch? I mean speaker-0: I still can't believe some of the people that transact with us at the beginning. I remember the very first person was this woman from Connecticut and I remember just calling her because I was like, Why did you buy this? the first order in, even got in before my family. my mom I want to be the first order. And this person kind of snuck in on the website. We hadn't even really announced it yet, publicly. And we did we did we're in New York. I wanted to use that to my advantage. So I did do a lot of demos ahead of announcing it publicly or doing running any paid ads to our website. So I was out in the street every week. Like we were two people. We did one event a week minimum in the city. So it was the first class coming out of an equinox, the first class coming out of a soul cycle, any co-working space that let us come by. We were showcasing the product wherever we could. I just kept knocking on doors and you knock on fifty doors, one of them says, Yeah, sure, come this weekend to the, some D2C brands you know, showroom in Soho and serve our weekend crowd coffee. And that's a lot of, frankly, a lot of the data that I retrieved in the early days about what messaging resonates with people was I had already spoken to thousands of people and had just listened to what they were saying. I just played dumb. I record, what are they saying? What do they hate about the Nespresso? What do they love about out-of-home coffee that they can't get in home? That all just became all of our tagline's copy hooks for all of the first ads. And then yeah, when it came time to put paid media dollars behind it, I remember, you know, John our our growth guy was like, he was the, you know, first employee with me. He he was like, San, okay, let's do let's do fifty dollars, let's do fifty dollars budgeted per day to start. And I was like, John, can we make it twenty five? And he's like, I feel like we're negotiating with coins, you know, like it's a Turkish bazar or something. but yeah, like that was the very first dollars. what was interesting was we did the pre-order, we were selling and it was okay. It wasn't amazing, it was okay. But I remember when we were at full steady state pricing, it was five ninety-five for this product that we've since sunset called the TK1. Our acquisition costs would fluctuate anywhere from like $95 to $150. And it was always oscillating kind of within that range. but it it it just you could tell the velocity wasn't moving the way that we wanted it to. it was going well, not great. And there was one night where I remember calling John and I was like, I I think we have to up the price to 750, like $150 price increase, which at that time, especially proportional to what it was, was a huge jump. And he was like, Why do you think we should do that? I was like, because I'm reading all the comments and we're still a very, very unknown brand, and people don't know what this product does. And I it's like where I I I got a crash course in Veblen goods and pricing strategy. And I said, like, I want to go, I think we need to up the price tomorrow. Like, right away essentially we wake up in the morning, we up the price on everything. And he was like, I think that's a big jump, but okay. The moment we did that, our CAC went from a ninety five to one fifty CAC down to at its lowest, twenty eight dollars. It was crazy. speaker-1: I need you to walk me through how that worked out. Like what were you seeing in the comments and how did that affect who was being shown the product to you know, I basically I I have some assumptions, but I want to hear you explain it to me. speaker-0: I'm so curious what your assumption is of what you think was happening. Do you want me to tell you what it was, or do you want to tell me the assumption first? speaker-1: Let me guess. No, I love being a fool. So my guess would be that the comments you're reading are something about price sensitivity, which means that the audience that's being shown this ad is not in the correct let's just call it they're not rich enough. All right. for lack of a better term. So when you raise the price, Facebook reallocates to a a better band of you know, income level. To now people are perceiving the value better and it's resonating more. That's my guess. speaker-0: Okay, that's very interesting. That's part of the answer. So the part of the answer was the cohort resonance or like essentially persona resonance. The other was because there was such little social proofing of the product online, people were making assumptions of what it did and did not do. And by virtue of pricing below the floor of our tier, of what's kind of called super autos, people were making claims in comments in threads. the of what it did and specifically what it did not do. And so they were saying it's not a super auto, it's a fully auto. It's not a fully auto, it's a semi auto. It doesn't do milk. It doesn't do this. And it's like, it's in the photo. It's it's there. But then there's comments like, that's just advert like they're just advertising what it is. It's not speaker-1: Bad. Because you were undercuting the market so much, they assumed the way you got there was by leaving something. speaker-0: And I thought it was a and this is all pre AI ads too. So these are whatever is there is yes, sometimes photorealistic renners, but very unlikely, because even that's incredibly expensive to create. It was mostly photos. But the idea was that this has been photoshopped. It's not doing a milk-based beverage. It's not, you're not getting that. You're not getting the full gamut of drinks they're saying. And also it's a lot more manual process. It's very likely a symbiote. And I'm like, okay, we're literally showing it's push button brewing, but we're here we're seeing the commentary, and it's like, this is just like. Don't listen to this advertising. And I'm like, we're we're getting relegated to the high end of the tier below us, which has very different functionality, versus an incredible deal for the category that we're in. And when we went to sit when we update from 595 to 745, it it was still at the floor of the category. It was just at the very bottom floor. There was one player that kind of oscillated around there, depending on their discounts and promo strategies. Well, we were at the very, very bottom, but we still showcased super premium. And we're like, there's just the consumer psychology anchoring of I don't trust this thing. It doesn't make sense to my brain. If somebody came to me tomorrow and wanted to sell me a brand new 2026 Mercedes-S class for twelve thousand dollars, I would naturally be like, I what's the catch? What is this? Why are you dumping this lemon on me? you're you're all of the things that we've learned through human psychology and sociology and survival, it's like this doesn't make any sense. And so I'm naturally more reticent towards it. And so when we changed the price, I was like, this is crazy because I'm upping the price. And my CAC has plummeted, my efficiency has skyrocketed. And it's just a crash course in pricing strategy. It's like you're you're you're going so far, so many standard deviations outside the mean that you're now confusing people. And it doesn't make any sense. But it also then the high, like I just like design. I'm the son of two architects. I was surrounded by designers. I always wanted a polished foot forward. I loved it when we had no money and I was bootstrapped and I'm just doing demos. I loved when people would walk up to me and be like, this is another one of those like $50, $100 million funded D to C brands. And I was like, that's crazy because we have no employees. We have like it's me and one guy that's, you know, been with me since the beginning. but it was like effectively there's Really, no team here. But we always try to showcase the product in a very premium way because we knew it's a highly considered purchase. This is the thing you're gonna wake up and engage with every morning the first thing out of your bed. We can't be putting some sort of trivial or utilitarian foot forward. It has to harmonize and kind of connect with the moment that we're trying to tap into the brand identity, visuals, and how we show up has to match that. speaker-1: Everybody's about to spend the next two weeks obsessing over one number, Black Friday Cyber Monday Revenue. Here's the problem. That number is the least useful one you can look at all year. It tells you how many people bought once. It says nothing about whether you built a business or just ran a really expensive discount code. That is what Floyum Fixes. They're a lifecycle marketing agency for Shopify brands, Clavio Elite Master Partners, and they build the infrastructure that turns a first purchase into a habit and a habit into an advocate. So every dollar you're about to spend on Black Friday, Saber Monday ads actually pays off. Book your free retention diagnosis this week. Last chance before the surge hits. Head to flowyum.com for more information. That's f L O W I U M.com. Flow Eim.com. So I'm assuming after that aha moment, you know, it was all gravy. Everyone's dancing to the bank. You're increasing your Facebook spend. So tell tell tell me about. After that, the growth phase, give me give me a few of the key points there, here before I let you go. speaker-0: Man, I think the the things that were I mean, it was a roller coaster ride throughout. So we were we were growing very quickly. you know, there was there was a period where we were building the O two based off of everything we had learned from the O one. And it's just frankly, it's a superior product across the board. but we did end up in a in a tricky spot, you know, the the Interest rates changing, capital markets shifting, the financing of RD. We had to make very quick decisions and launch that product. When we got it out the door, finally in early 2024, it was about a year later than we initially wanted. there was a lot of lessons learned in terms of, again, I would go back to the prioritization and kind of willingness to really I don't I don't want to say kill your babies. That feels a little too harsh, but you have to you have to sacrifice some things in the, you know, ideal state to get the product out the door. better said, perfect is the enemy of good and perfect is the enemy of done. So we had to launch the O two in a pretty cash constrained scenario. And then that resulted in some challenges in terms of, you know, ultimately the customer service and, you know, the response times, the availability of spare parts to re you know, basically get back to customers. So we had a lot of challenging times around that kind of twenty twenty three, twenty early twenty twenty four phase. but yeah, since then we, you know, We did a lot of changes internally as an organization. We put ourselves on a much more stable footing. and then, you know, saw the success of the O2 really picking up steam going into early 25. but we also very quickly learned that not everyone can make the leap to buy a $2,000 machine. they liked the functionality, they liked the design. But we used a lot of that insight and frankly a lot of the brand building with the O2 to launch the demi machine, which is a smaller form factor, lower price point machine. and that has completely changed the game for the business. And so right now we're really, I mean, accelerating at such a fast clip that it's creating its own separate challenges, you know, never a dull moment in in e-commerce and in startups. But yeah, we just we had to make a lot of changes through navigating. Not just, the business scale, but also how the macro landscape kept shifting too. speaker-1: Hey everybody, just a quick reminder. Please like this video and subscribe if you haven't. We're releasing interviews like this every week. So don't miss out. Now back to the interview. Yeah. And there's something super interesting about your business model. I've seen it before, don't get me wrong. It's not brand new, but you're the first person I've been able to ask, you know, on the record. Yeah. You have a a secondary call to action on all your product pages. You can buy this thing or you can rent it. Yeah. How has that been? speaker-0: my gosh, it's so controversial. I I always like I find it so I'm gonna just call it interesting for now that there are a lot of comments of like what is the world coming to that we're renting, we're renting machines. It's very funny because it's very clearly like a very ephemeral, transient kind of look at the company because they're not saying that you can absolutely buy the product, but there are a lot of people that the renting actually just makes more sense for. So frankly, it was one of those things that I went into with a lot of hesitation. I did not want, you know, to confuse customers. And I frankly also just didn't want to shoot too far down this new business model path that has all sorts of different challenges associated with it. So you know, it is a very controversial thing. It works really well for certain types of people. And sometimes those types of people are It's frankly a lot of times commercial environments. So offices that are more used to paying for food and food and beverage services on a monthly cadence. So it just works better to have a machine that they tee up with a coffee subscription and other food service providers that send everything on a monthly cadence. Sometimes it's people who are more transient. sometimes it's I just want to try before I buy kind of thing. And yes, we have a 30-day free trial in the machine, but hey, maybe you don't want to drop $2,000 on your credit card with a brand that you just became familiar with. And you have to mentally go through the thought of, if I do want to return it, I got to box this thing back up. I got to send it back out. A monthly rental just becomes a really easy on-ramp to try out the product and get familiar with, what it can do, get familiar with the brand or service level where, we take a lot of pride in making sure customers are taken care of, but it just works better. And then look, frankly, for some people, it's just better economics against an espresso, right? It's why Nespresso tries to charge you almost nothing for the hardware. But locks you into that closed ecosystem. If you look at our demi machine, you can get it for $39 a month. It's literally competitive to what you will economically pay for a niespresso from day one. So the machine plus the pods and capsules you would need for that first month, you're already ending up kind of in the green, in the black, if you will, from day one, getting a demi with a coffee bag, which not only will be cheaper. on a running basis versus a pod machine, but it's obviously gonna be far superior in quality. But it doesn't work for everyone and you can still buy a machine, so you don't have to go down that path if you don't want to. speaker-1: No, no, no, no. Yeah. It makes complete sense. And and and that's one of the things. It's like give people the options. And if your customers are looking into that option, it it is a thing that you can do now in in the ecosystem. There are solutions out there. before we go, you know, if I'm listening to this, you're obviously passionate about these machines, the quality of them, and you know, where should I go? What should I do if I want to learn more? P perhaps rent one, perhaps maybe just make the whole purchase. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. look, certainly you know, as an e-commerce company, like, you know, it's just terracafe.com. so you can check us out there. We have a pretty active Instagram, which is just at Terra Cafe. we are very open to our policy. If anybody ever wants to come by the office, come check out our machine, see, you know, see us, see the products, meet the team and just hang out for a bit. We're at twenty fifth street, thirty six west twenty fifth street, sixth floor. You can swing by anytime. yeah, so you know. we're we're always happy to engage with honestly anybody who just wants to learn more about our products or frankly coffee in general. So you know, please check us out and yeah, if you want to give it a try, you can rent our bike. speaker-1: Awesome. Sohan, thank you so much for coming on the show today and sharing all those amazing insights. Thanks for having. speaker-0: Thanks, Chase.