Latest / To All the Men I've Tolerated Before / Southern Charm

Transcript

Southern Charm · To All the Men I've Tolerated Before

• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Hey, tolerators, listens to all the men I've tolerated before.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: With Thealy Katona your weekly look at everyday misogyny, we
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: have the wonderful the everessa Annie Seige with us today.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: My wife, Yeah, ooh, look at me with my sat
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: words and don't worry. Today will be a reality TV episode.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Of course, of course I only call on to discuss.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say two things, reality TV and art,
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: but really that's just one thing.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: It's just the one thing, the art of my spiritual father,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Andy Kowait. All right, Well, this time, y'all are going
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: to be so lucky because we're finally going to be
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: giving hell to the men of Southern Charm.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Oh god, it's it has been hard. Southern Charm from
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: the jump has been a little challenging. I think a
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: lot of people didn't get into it in the first
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: place because it has such powerful plantation energy.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Uh huh it does.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Uh that's a bit hard to overcome. And then the
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: entire premise that they were like Bravos full of shows
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: about women for women, what if instead it was about
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Southern gentlemen is kind of a tough sell.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, what's so stupid. It wasn't so. Southern
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Charm has been on the air for ten years. It's
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: in South Carolina. It just follows the Southern dudes with
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Peter Pan syndrome. They're drinking and they're white privilege. And
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: I didn't catch on to the fact that this show
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: is the only show on Bravo that center's been as
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: the story and we'll make decisions with the men in
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: mind first until like today, and I was like, yeah,
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: And I think it's because they did a brilliant thing
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: with making me invested with those losers on Southern Charm
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: through Summerhouse and Winter House.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I also, just as a preface going into this episode,
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: I need to state for the record, I'm going to
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: talk a lot of shit on Southern Charm today. I
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: love Southern Charm. I love things that I hate. It
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: can be both. But more importantly, I need everyone to
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: know that Southern Hospitality is one of the things that's
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: ever happened to reality TV. The most recent scenes of
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: Southern Hospitality revived me from the grave. Anything negative I
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: have to say about Southern does not touch my baby,
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Princess Southern.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: I'll cut that that. I'll tag the entire cast who
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: just stare at their phones all day to see if
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: they're going to be tagged in some way. Yeah, it's
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: a different vibe on Southern Hospitality. It's more it's more
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: of an even match of men to women.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: It's more of an even match, and the character like
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: the the the male characters on Southern Hospitality are either
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: complete flops and kind of know it or are sinister gaze,
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: which I love. And so the men there that works
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: for me, and then the women on that show we
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: don't have time to do. We could dedicate not just
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: an episode, but a lifetime to just and I just
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: in awe, I've ever seen anyone do work like she
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: did on season three.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: God well, Annie as the Bravo historian, Which Southern charm
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: man do you want to destroy? First?
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Oh? What a good question? Am I interim of I
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: just feel like we just gotta eliminate them from the conversation,
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: or like I'm really mad and want to get vengeance
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: upon them.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Like the one that it's like we have to talk
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: about this one because he's ruined my life and others.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: All Right, well, I'm gonna I'm gonna skip over the
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: obvious answer since he's not current cast, the obvious answer
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: being Thomas Rabanel like in real life, needs to be
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: like Hannibal Lefter style in like a whole body prison
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: at all times. But of the more current cast, I'm
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: gonna say Whitney.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: Oh, I thought Whitney would be solo on the totem
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: Pole because like, he's hardly on the show anymore, and
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: he's melting.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Yes, he is melting. He does look like a melting
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: wax figure of kise. That is true. However, I hold
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: permanent beef with Whitney because I blame a lot of
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: what happened with Catherine on Whitney. And granted Catherine has
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: made a lot of her own decisions. They're not great,
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: but there was some weird stuff in the early season
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: of his treatment of her, and then you see glimpses
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: of what that kind of like nightmare person like that
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: he is in things like this season, he was barely
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: in the show and he's a producer who can get
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: things cut, and it still made it through the cut
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: that he got like crazy blackout drunk at a dinner
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: party and criticized one of the women for wanting to
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: eat dessert because she was too fat.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: Also important context on the woman in question who was
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: trying to eat a cupcake and Whitney said, and I
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: quote the last thing you need. Uh, it's Mollie from
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: America's Desktop Model. If you don't remember Molly from America's
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: Desktop Model, she's the one that Tyra destroyed by giving
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: her that really bad spaghetti blonde weave and then cutting
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: it out of her hair.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Tyra do crimes upon her. He's really gone through
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: the ring of reality TV wise, because she got assaulted
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: by tier Banks, then verbally assaulted by Whitney, and then
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: apparently had sex with Shit, which is like, that's that's rough. Yeah,
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: that's a lot for one. Yeah. Take in her lifetime
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: mostly on.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Camera, mostly on camera. And the thing about Whitney is
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: is he is the producer, and he is the person
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: who convinced Bravo like you should follow around my two
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: ship friends. We're gentlemen. And so he's he floats in
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: and out, and when it does come to Catherine, I
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: do think you have legs to stand on that he
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: if he didn't make things worse, he certainly didn't take
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: his power to make things better.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: He also was secret sleeping with her, and.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: He was also secret sleeping with her and never owned
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: that and then just watched her get worse and worse
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: until she was off the show.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: Watch though makes it sound passive. He was like pretty
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: actively saying awful things about her and like in conversation
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: just throwing her under the bus, and all the while
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: not being clear about the fact that they had this
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: sexual relationship at some point, which does make it different.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: If you have a lot of negative feelings about someone,
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: it's just because you don't like their vibe. That's different
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: from once upon a time you were sex friends. Now
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: you're talking a lot of shit. That's important context.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: I feel it is. Why don't you give the listeners
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: the because now I do think we have to talk
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: about Thomas, Ravenel and Catherine and give the context on Katherine.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: Oh boy, oh boy. I honestly should have like fully
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: gone back to the history books and done a full
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: fresh and up so I will I will say my
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: apologies if I do not get these facts all correctly,
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: because while I have been there from the jump with
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: this show, I don't do a lot of rewatching of
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: Southern charm.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: No you can't, Yeah you can't.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: You just gotta let it leave it in the past,
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: you know. And I don't think I've ever watched the
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: COVID season because I simply cannot.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: No, no, I've.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: Uh Anyway, Thomas Ravenel and Catherine. So, Catherine came on
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: the show.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: As like a baby, funny one.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: She was a legal, consenting adult, but she was very
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: much a sexy baby and super sheltered, not necessarily the
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: brightest bulb that any of us have ever witnessed, and
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: she just was like demolished by the men of this show.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: She got involved with Thomas Ravenel, who was easily twice
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: her age and was a truly nightmarish, malicious person, and
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: they kept they have had a pile of babies together.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: They kept having babies and then would break up and
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: say horrible things about each other and fight about custody,
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: and then get back together again and then have another
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: baby and then break up and say horrible things. Is
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: this awful on again, off again nightmare situation in which
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: things eventually escalated to a point of like accusing each
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: other of different things like substance abuse and really getting
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: into the muck and trying to get custody from each
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: other and I think realistically, it does seem like some
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: of those allegations on both sides were probably pretty accurate.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: It's just one of those things where like on reality TV,
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: you watch a lot of awful real life things play out,
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: but sometimes things cross the line to where you're like,
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: I don't feel like I should be watching this, And
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: I think everyone reached that point with their dynamic at
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: a certain stage where it didn't feel like this is
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: our little glimpse into these monster people's lives in a
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: fun way. Instead, it was very dark and very upsetting,
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: and there's children involved, and I'm not trying to be
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: all think of the children about it. Like a little bit.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: I think that Catherine's experience trying to be a mom
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: on Southern Isy Cameron sitt step down when her and
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: her husband started having kids.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Possibly. I also think that Cameron was always a little
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: bit of a funky fit on the show. He was
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: one of those people like Whitney who never really wanted
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: to share their actual life. They wanted the benefits of
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: being on reality TV and the fame and all of that,
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: but didn't want any of the mess to show. And
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: Whitney can kind of get away with it. A because
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: he's so messy that sometimes the mess leaks through anyway,
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: but also because he's a producer, so he can control
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: his edit and can kind of walk that line more effectively.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: Cameron really gave us nothing and was just there to
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: make it not a show entirely about men. Initially, she
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: was kind of the token woman, which is weird for
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: a Bravo show. And then when it came to the
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: point where like a lot of Housewives reached that stage too,
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: where it's like, okay, like Garcel, sorry, babe, love you,
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: but you need to tell us something more than like
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: the fun, exciting, great things happening your career right now.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: This can't just be an ad for your beautiful life.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: You gotta show us. You gotta be somewhere in between
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: the Cameron Garcell point and the Thomas Catherine. We don't
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: want to see the true dark underbelly in full detail
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: of your worst, sickest parts of your life. We also
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: don't want to just see the glossy Instagram version. You
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: got to hit that sweet spot in the middle.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and I think it's important context that not
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: only was there like Thomas Ravenal had a lot of
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: power in Charleston, South Carolina, because he was a former
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: politician and his family was full of white men politicians
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: who had run the town or whatever, and like there
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: was never going to be a point where Catherine was
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: on an even playing field money wise, power wise, support wise,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: any of it.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: No, and their storyline created a really interesting kind of
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: a b comparison about in the context of the South
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: and this kind of upper across society and whatever, the
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: difference in terms of repercussions and forgiveness and stigma for
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: men versus women. Like when we meet Thomas Ravenel, he's
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: this like disgraced former politician who had served time for
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: selling coke or something like folk related and had been
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: this kind of like corrupt, sleazy political guy, and everyone's like, oh, Thomas,
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: you know how he is. And Catherine hadn't really done
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: much wrong except for sleeping with Whitney, and he was
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: going around like a fucking death eat, like whispering secrets
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: in people's ears about her and talking about what a
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: slut she was. And then as she and Thomas had
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: their escalating drama, they would both behave really horribly and
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: it seemed like it only ever stuck to her always
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: be like, oh, well, Thomas, he's making those bad decisions,
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: you know how he does. And with Katherin, they would
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: be like, she's a fucking mess. She needs to get
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: her life together, she needs to be in And again
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: that's not to say that she didn't need to get
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: her shit together, but they just faced really different levels
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: of rapercussions considering they were a lot of times wrapped
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: up in very similar issues.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Well, and a lot of because you can't talk about
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: Whitney without talking about his mom, Patricia, Patricia. And the
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: thing is is that Patricia will gather all of these
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: loser men who have done wretched things to women and
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: each other the entire season, and then she'll be like,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: it's Easter. Put on a nice top and a tie,
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: and we're sitting down and I'm feeding you Easter dinner,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to tell you what fine upstanding gentlemen
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: you are, and how goofy it is that you tried
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: to ruin some ladies life this year.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Patricia is so challenging because I want to love her.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: He is so decadent and ridiculous and wearing like afgans
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: and floating around drinking Martini's in the afternoon. She's like
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: a fabulous character. But first of all, for this character
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: to exist in the modern era, like, oh, we all
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: know there's some dark secrets in your closet, ma'am. And
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: then she does have these dinners and interactions with the
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: guys where for a minute you're like, oh, she's kind
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: of given it to the guys because she'll kind of
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: like talk down to them and tease them a little
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: bit and is very like I'm above you, kind of
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: maternal position in comparison to them. But then inevitably, in
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: any of those scenes, it quickly turns around to her
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: talking trash about the women that they're with, giving them
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: horrific advice, the true trader to her own gender, to
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: a degree where it's like, oh no, no, it's clear
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: the pecking order in her mind is like Patricia than
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: the men, than all the other women, and it it
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: is like.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Being what you would call a fan of Southern Charm
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: and being a fan of Bravo. I understand why the
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: Southern Charm community doesn't always reflect the Bravo community because
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: it is so mail centered. And then like there's all
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: that like manners and good old bullshit and like uh,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: we're so classy and I can't think and maybe the
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: below of the duck shows do it because those boats
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: are usually captained by men. I can't think of other
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Bravo shows where men were important, except for like Flipping
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Out with Jeff Lewis.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: Honestly, I think the closest we have to another one
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: like it. And it's not that men are the most
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: important in these shows, but I would say that they're
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: like equal playing field. Is like a Vandercump slash the
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Valley situation where the men get their own plot lines.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: It's just jarring because the flagship based behind Bravo will
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: always be the concept of real housewives, Like that's the
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: thing that really like blew it up, that turned Bravo
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: into what it is. And there's so many zillions of cities,
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: and all of those, some of them more than others,
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: there'll be men present. Like I don't super watch a
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: lot of Jersey, even though I hear that it is
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: perfection and I should be, but my understanding is that
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: the men on Jersey are a lot more active compared
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: to like Beverly Hills or whatever. They'll talk about what's
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: going on with Mauricio, but Mauricio is not a star
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: on the show, you know, no, Yeah, but I think
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: it's much more even Stephen, like you'll you'll get an
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: entire episode where a lot of what you're paying attention
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: to is what's happening with Jax or Tom and his
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: shitty band or whatever is going on, but you also
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: get plots with the ladies. And what's weird about Southern
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: Charm is a lot of times it's really just focused
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: around following the men, which is fine, except.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: Their nightmare people nightmares.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: It is interesting to see a show explore male friendships
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: in the way that it does. It still has that
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: bravo soft approach of really being about interpersonal relationships and
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: fights and misunderstandings and betrayals that you don't normally get
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: a lot of that in conversation about how men relate
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: to each other. Like the Austin Craig breakup and reunion
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: over the course of this season kind of did nothing
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: for me, but it was something that I feel like
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: you don't really see that a lot.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: Yes, and I will say that, like the Shep Austin
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: Craig friendship and the triangle or the duo that it
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: creates and uncreates, and someone gets thrown out, someone gets
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: to come back in. It is interesting because then you
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: do get to watch like how men prioritize their friendships.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: And for the men of Southern Charm, it's how much
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: of like a chore are you in my life? Like
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: when shep was really like bananas and struggling and whatnot,
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: then Austin was like or not Austin Craig. Craig was like, oh,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: I'm out. I don't actually want to deal with that.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: And that's like Craig's go too is to be like, eh,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: that feels like work.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: It's also interesting because I feel like I've heard, like
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: in life many times from men that they are less
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: likely to tell each other what they really think of
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: their partners or the choices they're making in their lives,
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: or tell them what they think they should do. Instead,
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: that guys tend to be like air quotes, less judgmental,
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: or less involved in each other's lives that way. And
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: I don't know that Southern Charm is the most accurate
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: eye into how the average man functions, but if they
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: are any sort of representation of it, they are just
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: as judge. They're just talking to each other about a
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: third party as opposed to addressing it directly, like if
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: you take the Austin Shep Craig dynamic and you stack
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: it up compared to like an early Vandr Pump Stosy
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: Kristen Katie situation. A lot of what happened this season
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: would have been resolved as quickly as Stossy being like,
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: you're being a fucking bitch. Faster behavior right now.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: It needs you to picture face.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: Exactly as opposed to her going and talking to Katie
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: about Kristin all season, and then Kristin trying to talk
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: to Katie about what Stassi said her. There is always
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: that element of people talking about each other too, but
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: it honestly feels to me like the women have just
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: been a lot more direct about whatever it is that's
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: on their plate versus the men of Southern Charm do
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: a lot of little whispers behind backs well, and I.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: Think we see a lot of that too. And love
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: is blind when the men get together and they're like,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: do you like your lady, and like they'll bring up
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: stuff that they've never brought up to the person that
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: they're marrying in two weeks. Yeah, love is blind is
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: so healthy. For all of us.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: I realize that we're not talking about Love is Blind
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: right now. However we are, and Love is Blind just
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: I get so psyched the first few episodes, and then
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: it gets really boring when they all just like each other.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: Because you got to have that on the spectrum of toxicity.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: You gotta get that sweet spot in the middle.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: We got to have more haters on Love is Blind.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: But then we demonize the haters on Love is Blind.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, and by we, I mean you. You all
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: who are listening are like, well, we didn't like her
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: because she told that guy his pants sucked. His pants sucked.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Like when you said you and looked pointedly forward. It
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: was like me, and I was like, trust me. I
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: am judgmental as hell. I My favorite people on TV
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: are some of the worst people on TV. I'm a
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: real supporter. I get mad when the fan base kicks
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: somebody off of a show for being too bad. I
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: understand again, like the Catherine situation, sometimes the darkness threshold
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: or the bad behavior threshold crosses the point where it's like, Okay, no,
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: you can't keep getting a paycheck for your monster's behavior.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: Right up until that threshold, I'm having a great time.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: Oh for sure. And I think what's so interesting about
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: the men of Southern Term is, of course they feel
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: owed the women's time and affection and attention, but on
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Southern Term they're more likely to get it, as in
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: the case with this season with JT, the inceell and
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: Vanita a perfectly gorgeous girl.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Man, I can't believe that we've gotten this far into
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: the episode we're talking about JT and Vanita. I also
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: can't believe that when you ask which one needs to
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: be eliminated, I forgot JT existed because he is the
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: correct answer.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: He is the correct answer.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: Awful. He is awful. And I know that's a mean
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: thing to say about a real live human who don't
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: know personally, but good lord, I cannot fucking stand that man.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: No, he is for what? So he's this little man
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: for people who don't watch just go look at him
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: up Google right nowt JT's Southern charm. You know, he's
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: not a man that you don't want to spend time with.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: On like first impressions of a photo alone, yea.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: The vibe shoots through the screen at you.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: You, yes, the catch what's going on? And he's like
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: one of those ratty boys who's like secretly mean, but
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: is telling you the entire time that he's so nice,
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: and he's like so nice and he doesn't understand why
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: Taylor didn't want to kiss him, and then Bevanita did
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: want to kiss him, and then he was like, oh,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: I I could be kissing you know, a girl who
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: looks like me. I'm assuming it was under the cover racism.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: As to why he never went forward with Banina.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: It's possible. I don't know. I really don't know what
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: that little rat man is up to. I don't know.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: Vanita is so far outside of his lead. I'm confused
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: by that entire storyline a lot. I thought that it
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: was fake. I don't think it's fake. I think it's
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: really embarrassing for Vanita. I don't understand how you like that.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: I want to have crafted that for me for a
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: million dollars. Like if Andy said you'd be the focal
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: point of the entire show, we would change all of
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: the like copy and your front and center and we're
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: giving you watch what happens. We just have to have
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: you kiss JT a little. I'd be like, no, thank you,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: that's so bad for my reputation.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: The archetype of the kind of pick me girl behavior
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: of like, oh, I'm not like other girls, where you
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: try and build yourself up conversationally by shitting on the
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: entire rest of your gender and be like, oh, whatever
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: it is, like I love watching football because I'm not
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: like other girls. That kind of thing. JT is like that,
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: but gender reversed, where he's constantly being like, oh, oh,
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: these his whole weird like fuck boy exorcism saying and
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: being like, these men don't know how to treat a woman.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: I'm not like that. I'm not like these other boys.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: I'm very special. But then he is exactly the same
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: as all of them.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: Correct, And JT is the perfect example of watching a
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: man who believes he does not take part in the
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: patriarchy and the abuse of women, benefiting off of his
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: asshat friends who are just outer about it, and him
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: being like, oh, I would never cheat on anyone. That
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: doesn't make you a good guy.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: So yeah, you super would because you had a secret
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: girlfriend all.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Season all season. JT. He is gross And I knew
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: he was gross from minute one that he was on
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: my screen. And I almost called Andy, and I was like,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Andy why.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: He really I'm upset about how much he tanked Vanita's
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: social stock in the process, because the other thing is
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: if you're if you're doing shady stuff with a secret girlfriend,
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: obviously you're the villain in that situation. But Vanita did
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: not seem to be able to keep her story straight
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: about what she did he know and when she would
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: one second be like, as far as I knew, he's
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: totally single, and then we would cut to you know,
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: a one on one. Sorry, my dog is screaming the
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: other room.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: He also hates jat con sense that I'm.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: Talking about J and JD and he's getting real riled up.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: But no, she would be like, oh, I have no
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: idea about him having a girlfriend, and then she would
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: be like, hey, you know, it's not my responsibility not
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: to be a homewrecker haha. And it was the vibes
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: were weird, weird and confusing, and the timeline was messy
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: for sure.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah and yeah, he's just and before Vanina, we watched
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: him have an entire season where he was trying to
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: gaslight Taylor into believing that she was attracted to him
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: and wanted to be his girlfriend, and was like literally
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: just waiting for Shep dated Taylor. I was like, which
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: one of them dated Taylor? Because the women only have
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: roles on Southern Charm if they're dating the men.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, yeah.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: I think that's why Molly was immediately like, I will
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: kiss Shep. I'll kiss any of them to keep this job, Like.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: It's the It's not the only way for them to
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: stay on the but it's the on ramp because you
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: can take someone like Madison, who got on the she
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: was already related to the show. But then that seems
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: pretty suspicious to me that she was dating Austin, who
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: I have some theories about. Yes, she got on the
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: show and then was so beautiful and charming and lovely
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: that we were all like, hell, yeah, more Madison. So
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: now she can be there even though she's not dating
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: one of the core cast members. But the only way
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: she was going to get on the show was to
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: be connected to one of these guys first. Her stock
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: has also tanked this season. I love her so much
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: and I don't want to be mad at my beautiful,
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: perfect queen Madison. However, in the fallout of the Craig
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Page breakup, she's been I know, like pretty on the
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: wrong side of history on that one.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so so JT. Let's wrap it up with him.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: He spent an entire season just begging Taylor to believe
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: that he was a nice guy, and then Taylor would go,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: I know you're a nice guy. I just also have
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: then to not get like sexy feelings off of you,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: And he's like, but I think you do, But I
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: think you do, but I think you do, Like, wouldn't
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: it be nice if you slept with a nice guy?
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: And She's like, ah, he definitely falls into the category
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: of people that believe that being nice entitles them to
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: your affection. Yes, And it's like, no, you can be
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: as lovely as you want, and I can appreciate that.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: That doesn't mean I have to find you attractive. That
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: doesn't mean I have to spend time with you. He
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: can just not vibe valid. But then that quickly, especially
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: with that type of guy, turns into a oh, women
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: only like nasty guys, and they don't like nice guys
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: like me. Nice guys finish last. He's yeah, he's got
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: real kind of in cell.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: No, like literally, my only pullet point for him is
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: JT an in cell. That's who he is who.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Keeps ruining the storylines way more beautiful, talented, interesting women, Yes,
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: who seems to think that he is incredibly charming despite
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: all evidence to the contrary.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: So you brought up the Craig and Page breakup, and
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: at first I wanted this episode to only be about
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: the Kig Page breakup because I feel like So. I
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: was at book club and someone said something really interesting
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: after someone explained the Craig and Page breakup and the
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: bravo of it all, and they said, it really reflects
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: the culture of coercion that goes on in American hetero
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: relationships in that Craig really thought that if he just
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: kept asking Page to move to South Carolina and be
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: his wife and the mother of his kids and only
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: focus on that, she would eventually say, Okay, you're right,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: I don't have once and she just never did. But
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: he kept instead of facing that, he what I can
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: get her to do it?
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the more interesting scenes because it has
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: been really really cool to see how they're playing out
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: this breakup on two dueling shows. More the Page perspective
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: on Summer House and more of his perspective on Southern Charm,
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: And they were airing at the same time for a while.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: It has been an interesting way that that has rolled out.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: And one of the scenes that I was like, ah,
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: that is quite an insight is they were talking to
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: I think it was when they were talking to Austin
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: when they kind of made back up again and Craig
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: said something like, oh, Page wants two kids, and Paige
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: was like, no, I don't, and he was like, yeah,
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: that's what we said because I wanted This is not
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: an exact quote. Obviously I wanted four and you didn't
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: want me. So we decided that we're gonna do two,
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: so you want to and she was like, no, the
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: compromise between wanting kids and not wanting kids isn't two kids.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: That's you're still winning that you're still getting what you want.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: It's a binary. You're having kids, you're not having kids.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: Two kids is having kids. I don't know that's what
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: I wanted to do, but that was truly he looked
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: genuinely shocked that that wasn't how she had understood it
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: as well. And I think that it was the same
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: thing with moving, where she was so clear and he
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: just only was willing to hear what he wanted to hear,
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: and then now is playing the victim when we've seen
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: her repeatedly in scenes say, my career is really taking
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: off right now. Things are really different now than they
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: were a few years ago. I'm really excited about where
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: things are going. I'm hot and cool and in my
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: thirties and blowing up in New York City. Why would
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: I slam the emergency break on to be your baby
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: oven in Charleston though, somehow the audience is turning on her.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: I can't stand it.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: I know you all need to get it together, okay,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: like you all really need to get it together because
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: we can continue to tear down women for choosing themselves. Also,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: I would say that Paige was preparing Craig that she
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: was always going to choose herself first. From the moment
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: their lips touched. She was always telling him I'm not
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: willing to move to South Carolina. The first time he
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: talked to her about being engaged, because I just rewatched
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: this episode. The first time he goes I think we'll
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: be engaged within a year, she burst into tears and said,
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: I can't leave my mom.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: I remember that scene. Like she has been clear and
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: granted they're in a relationship. There's plenty of conversations we
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: don't see over the years that they were together. I'm
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: sure they are a time for She was like, maybe
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: I could see that, and that's fine. You're allowed to
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: think about different ways that your life could go and
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: weigh and consider your options and talk about it with
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: a partner. But we have seen her be so fucking
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: clear about this and his little blindsided routine, I'm not
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: buying for a second, especially because I've been suspicious of
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: Craig for a long time because his breakup with Naomi,
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: their whole relationship was something that I am personally familiar with.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: That dynamic I think is so insidious, which very similarly,
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: he played the victim all the time of like, she's
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: so mean, she's unsupportive, she's not having my back while
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure things out. Meanwhile she is. She
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: was like getting a master's degree and was working and
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: was balancing all of these things and was trying to
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: build an adult life, and he was like being a flop,
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: doing a ton of adderall and lying about taking the bar,
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: and she just was being like, could you get your
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: shit together at all and be a partner to me?
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: And the answer kept being no. But honestly, now that
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: I think about it, their situation was very similar to
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: Carl and Lindsay, where yeah, she was being a bitch,
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: but also if you were trying to hit your wagonto
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: a life partner who is incapable of making parent plans
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: or achieving anything on their own, it would be hard
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: not to turn into kind of a bitch about it.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: Well, And the difference between Craig and Carl is that
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: when Craig is complaining about Naomi being a mean bitch
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: or saying like, I know that I can get Paige
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: to move down here. She wants me to buy her
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: a rain, Craig has an entire community around him to
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: be like, yeah, that's the right thing that should happen.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: Page should want to live down here with us where
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: it's hot all the time and racist and mean, and
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: that's beautiful, and she should want to have eight of
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: your kids. And he keeps getting because it's so insidious
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: in the Southern charm culture that men get what they
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: want and women are their deserve men and be wives
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: and be perfect wives at that, he keeps getting affirmed
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: that that's what he should want by his Boso friends. Meanwhile,
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Carl's fighting for his life in New York with Paige
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: and Sierra, Lindsay, Daniel and all of these women just
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: being like, actually, you suck, You're a loser.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that's a really important difference in the
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: dynamics between the two, which is that to your point,
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: in Southern Charm, the goal that everyone has in their
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: dating is to get married and pop out babies immediately.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Everybody is cruising for like the white picket fence two
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: point five children in a golden retriever type existence, and
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: Summer House is a bunch of New Yorkers, and New
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Yorkers truly are like, I'm only thirty eight, why would
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: I settle down? Is continuing to adventure and drive forward
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: far later into their lives. That's just how New York
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: culture is compared to Southern culture, where people are more
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: likely to want to try and settle down and have
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: this sort of heteronormative existence as quickly as possible. And
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: so you see the men on Summer House are like
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: freaking out over the the idea of calling someone their girlfriends.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: The Southern Charm are like, when will you be fertile
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: enough to bear my seat.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: But then also there's this layer of icky irony about
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: the men of Southern Charm, where it's still all on
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: their terms, and it's like, I will have baby when
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: I decide I'm grown up, and because men can have
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: children longer, and because there is such an imbalance of
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: men to female in the ratio in Charleston, they literally
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: do just get to wait around until they're forty nine.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: And then a girl is telling them that she actually
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: hates you on a beach in the Bahamas.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: Please tell me the conversation is naturally flown to where
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: I really need us to get to, which is why
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: I didn't want this to just be a cragcage breakup.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: Is we need to talk about Chef's plotline this season
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: because it meant a lot to me.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you you give the context because I meant to
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: pull the psycho text message she said that girl.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: You pull up the psycho text message. Also remind me
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: of her name. I'm trying to remember what her name is.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: Oh, we loved her, and I.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: Already forgot what her name is. But she is my
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: favorite person. Sienna, Sienna. There we go. So context for
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: anyone who didn't watch the season first of all, I
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: recommend just fast forward through any seasons that don't involve
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: or any scenes that don't involve Shep, and just burn
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: through just the Shep and Sienna stuff. If you just
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: watch their scenes from this season, the whole thing will
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: take you like forty five minutes. It's so worth it.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: Maybe smashed it together on YouTube so you could just
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: watch that. But basically, SHEF has spent the last decade
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: on our televisions being this womanizing Peter pan syndrome, can't
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: stop banging everything with a pole, SaaS bitch. And then
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: he decides that suddenly he has fallen in love a
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: Bahamian beauty queen goddess who's do we know how old
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: she is?
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: Like, baby, she's baby, she's a baby. Yeah, she's got
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: to be in her twenties. She's a model, right.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: He's stunningly beautiful. She lives on an island paradise, she's
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: young and has the world in front of her. And
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: he's like, Okay, I finally found a woman that I'm
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: so impressed with that now, as the men of Southern
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: Charm do, I will declare her my bride and impregnate
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: her like miss me with that shit, I am not interested.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: You are gross, and he just like he just wouldn't
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: hear it, just would not take that on, and took
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: everyone on a trip to go see her. He repeatedly like,
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: you're gross. Can I hang out with your friends? Is dead?
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: Or maybe he just won't hang out. Maybe I'll just
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: mind my own business and you guys have fun, and
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: he would not leave her alone, and then wrote the
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: most unhim chext message we've ever had the pleasure of
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: hearing on TV.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: Good Morning Sienna, listen. This is also after she's already
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: told him I have the itck from you and we're
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: not in love, but you wouldn't hear it. They've already
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: had one encounter on a beach where he's like, do
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: you want to go on a boat with us tomorrow?
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: And she goes, I don't want to spend any time
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: with you. I don't. It's a note, may I love
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: like that? Never find me?
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: Oh like Paige, she's being clear as day about where
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: she stands.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: I think she likes to.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: Be like, are you dating And she'd like, no, I'm
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: dating him, and but we are.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: And we're engaged. So he writes on the second morning
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: of the Bahamas trip in front of all of his
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: loser friends. Good morning, Sienna. Listen. I love seeing you
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: and no one else, no one, But I'm going to
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: try to convince someone they love me for three days.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: But I'm not going to try to convince someone they
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: love me for three days, especially when I know deep
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: down they do. Here's hoping you understand my feelings and
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: exult them. I just don't feel this way. Ever. I
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: know that you agree and feel a lot of what
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: I do because I've heard it from your perfect little
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: freckled lips. And those around us can say and think
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: what they will, but we will have the last laugh,
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: and we'll have love, laughter and everything that matters. Okay,
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: my ted talk is over. If you had screenshot that
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: to me and said I got this today, I would
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: have said, girl, you in danger.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: What's wild, too, is he proudly shares this with everybody,
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: with his friends with the cameras. He's about how he
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: wrote the perfect text message and it could not be
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: a worst text message. It is incredibly creepy. It's trying
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: to be like funny at the end, but it's not landing.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: He talks about her lips in a way that no
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: one wants to be talked about. It's way too long. Also,
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: I I hope you understand my feelings and exalt them.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: I can't decide of him trying to be like look
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: at my good vocabulary, or if it's like religious coded.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: No, it was very biblical. It's gross. There's also like
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: he's very much giving, like we are Romeo and Juliette.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: No one is rooting for us, but I'm rooting for
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: us because his friends have told them, dude, she hates you.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: He has basically been like dude, Like, Yes.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: Also, Craig loves to latch onto a woman misbehaving and
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: tell everyone her flaws. And I just watched him do
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: this to Lindsay on Summerhouse, And like he loves he
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: loves to yell at women and.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: Stand a volley in in that way. Yes, scream a woman.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: He loves to screaming at a woman and feel righteous
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: in that. So he can't let go that shep is
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: in love with a woman who clearly has the ick
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: of off of him, and he's like, she's using you.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: She just wanted you to get on the show with her.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: Everyone kept insisting that she was using him to get
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: on the show. And first of all, if she was
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: using him to get on the show, she would have
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: pretended to like him and would have been in scenes
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: she was like, I would prefer to not be on
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: camera and not go to your activities and not see
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: you because I don't like you. How is that her
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: using him to get on the show? First of all? Like,
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: but in what way does this evidence reach this conclusion
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: for us?
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: It does not, So then I think Whitney and Patricia
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: make up a story about her trying to like farm
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: Whitney on Riah from what.
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: I understand, because there's a couple things like that that
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: I'm like, wait, what's the actual story here? From what
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: I understand, the Riya thing is that they matched on
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: Riah but never talked, and on dating apps you managed
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: with people all the time. It just means you both
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: said like, yeah, maybe that's not her going after him,
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: and if they matched, he also said yes to her, Yeah,
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: So okay, you both thought one another word vaguely attractive,
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: which means that she is insane because Whitney again looks
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: like a melting wax figure of Katie Lang. However, to
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: each their own, and honestly, maybe she was gold digging?
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: Good for her? JP, What does it say she was
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: gold digging to come from old money and your personality
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: just sucks so bad it wasn't worth Did you consider
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: that one? And this possibility?
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: And then after years of Shep never being less sympathetic
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: hero because he's always been a mess and he's always
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: been riddled on substances and he's always been screaming and
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: picking fights with people and doing women wrong or whatever.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: Now all of a sudden it's like, don't we feel
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: bad for Shep? And I'm like, no, I've been waiting.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: Well, And another one of those kind of like wait,
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: what's the actual backstory here? From what I understand, I
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: don't remember if someone said it on and Watch What
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: Happens Live or if it came from the internet or what.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: But he had this whole thing about why would she
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: let us come all the way out to the islands
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: if she didn't want to be with me? And then
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: I guess that he said at some point that she
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: had told him beforehand, like we need to have a
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: serious talk before you come out here, like obviously setting
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: it up for a breakup, and that he had been like, no,
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: we're going to come out, We're doing this on camera
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: because I have respect for my audience and I want
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: them to see what all's going on. So you made
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: this happen on camera. And then when all victim mode
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: and we're like, please, America, don't be too hard on her,
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: you know, even though she really took advantage of me
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: and was horrible to me, don't punish her too bad Internet.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: And what ends up happening in both the Krag and
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: Page breakup and Sianna getting the ick from Chef. I
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: can't even call it a breakup because I think he
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: made it all up in his head.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: She repeatedly was like, we are not now and have
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: never been dating. We are not now and have never been.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: In I have talked to you three times, Please stop
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: texting my phone. Is that people did cite like people
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: are citing actively with Shep and Crag and I have.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: It's insane because I mean, and I think it's again
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: the power imbalance on Southern Charm and how they really
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: do want us to be invested in these bozos who
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: make pillows and wear shoes without socks all the time.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: And it drives me crazy, all of it because on
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: vander Pump Rules I bounce around between hating those morons
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: shep or not shep shorts sand of aal Peter whatever,
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: and it's like and no one, I mean, people probably
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: did stand up for Tom Sandival when scandaval happened or whatever,
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: But like the way that people will be, Like Page
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: was mean to Crag. She was mean and she should
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: have just been happy becau he was nice, and I
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: was like number one late. I know that kirkstock plummeted
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: with me when Page broke up with him, but you
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: and I were like, Okay, we can love Craig because
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: Page loves Craig while they were dating, and he was
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: our stupid, sweet baby angel who sewed pillows and war
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: ten hats and didn't believe pandas were real. I've never
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: thought he was nice. He's not a nice guy.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: He's not a nice guy. He worked as a character
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: when he was a complimentary structure to Page, Page is
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: this like badass, realized whole person as woman. And when
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: he was her goofy, weird pillow sewing conspiracy theory boyfriend,
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: it was like, oh that's nice. You know that they
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: say in most relationships, there's a sale, and there's an anchor.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: You know, she was this like solid anchor. She was
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: doing stuff, she was connected to reality, and he could
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: be just her manic pixie dream boy. That's sweet. But
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: as soon as you cut him loose from the concept
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: of her, the fact that he is this like flighty
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: emotional storyteller, I.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: Am a lawyer and a storyteller, I'm getting it on a.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: Teacher across your back. Him minus her is a lot
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: less appealing. Well, because he's a liar.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: And when I say that he's not nice, I'm not
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: saying that he's like completely always berating people or whatever,
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: but he's not kind and he thrives when someone is
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: wrong and he gets to be the person that talks
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: about it.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he is very gossipy and very wallow in other
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: people's suffering. He he also just everything is about him,
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: always about him. Page's success was out him because how
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: did her success take away attention from him? And how
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: did her success make his success look smaller? As fuck
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: up the timeline of what he wanted for his future,
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: And it's the same thing with everything else. When he's
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: mad at Austin, it's because Austin doesn't understand his relationship
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: with drinking, and when he's mad at Shep, it's because
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: Shep's not doing what Craig thinks someone should do. In
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: that situation, everything is through the filter of him seeing
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: himself as this sort of golden boy who is doing
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: things the correct way and everyone should fall in step behind,
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: despite the fact that he is constantly making terrible decisions
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: and screaming at women and being a fucking mess. I
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: don't know why he's the authority on everything and that
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: everything needs to reflect back on him perfectly.
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: I don't want to call you out, but like I
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: am going to tell you that this is what happens
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: at the end of the Southern Charm reunion.
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: Oh that's liably transparent with the listener that I did
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: admit in the beginning of this episode that I have
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: no memory of the end of the second event, so
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: I either walked out of the room or just like
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: entered a few states.
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: So so the entire time, Craig and I just kept
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: texting people. Though he's about to lose it, like he's spiraling,
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: like when Craig is in an emotional tsunami. It's like
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: standing on that beach with Parker Posey on White Lotus,
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: like you're just watching it, and I was like, he's
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: going to start screaming at Andy Cohen for like asking
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: a nothing question or like telling them that it's time
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: to break for lunch and he is hungry or something.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: And so Andy asks the entire couch, all of the
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: cast members, who is afraid of Craig now? And they
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: all raise their hand, and I.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: Was like, like, afraid for his well being or afraid
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: of him, like he's scary, afraid.
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: Of him because he's scary because he had just screamed
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: at oh who owns the Southern hospitality restaurant le Leva.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: He had just screamed at Leva. And LoVa was like,
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: you're literally on the edge of this couch screaming at me.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: And all I asked you to do was to think
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: about it from this way, and you cannot hear that,
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: and so like, and then Austin has a breakdown because
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: Austin kind of is like a soft boy, like I
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: do think sometimes I think that if Austin didn't keep
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: the company that he kept, he'd be a man that
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: I would allow in a room with me.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: Like that would have that would be a mistake, not probably,
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: but I support your delusion.
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: So basically, like Austin confines to Andy and the group
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: that the thing about him and Craig's friendship is that
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: it's so one sided, and now Austin doesn't know how
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: to move forward because he knows that anytime he makes
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: a mistake, even if he doesn't know it's a mistake,
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: Craigs out and that like hurts Austin each time or whatever,
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: and that leads Andy to be like, well, is everyone
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: afraid of Craig like this? And they all are, and
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: I'm like, well, that's tulling.
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: Austin and Craig are in kind of an abusive relationship.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: I feel like, yeah, I am not certainly going to
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: speak to anyone's sexuality. I would never make any sort
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: of conclusions about anybody on that front. However, their dynamic
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: with each other is not normal and is very one sided.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: It's really clear that Austin is significantly more emotionally invested
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: in his dynamic with Craig than the other way around.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: And part of that, I think, especially this season, is
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: the standard thing where someone gets involved in a relationship
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: and then they just stop feeling they need to have friends.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: They're like, oh, well, I've got this one person who
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: can fulfill every need in my life, which is super healthy,
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: So I'm just gonna let all my friendships decay. And
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: I think Craig was a bit in that mode, and
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: that's part why there was so much of an imbalance.
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: But I think even beyond him being with Paige and
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: kind of floating away from Austin, I think across the board,
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: Craig is very self centered and it's all about him
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: versus Austin gets very fixated on other people, and he
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: has been very fixated on Craig and his The way
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: that they handled growing apart from each other and then
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: trying to reconcile felt it felt like a toxic romantic relationship.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: Well, and part of it is, too, is that at
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: some point Craig and Austin were very similar socially and
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: behaviorally and whatnot. And we have watched Austin get a
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: girl into his orbit, use her for what he wants
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: to use her for, and then literally cast her aside
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: for the next girl that comes into his orbit. And
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: we've seen him do it to castmates who are beloved
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: and castmates who we sometimes tilter our heads at Lindsey
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: and like Austin did used to be the guy who
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: was like, if you're right in front of me, I
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: care about you, and if you're not right in front
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: of me, I'm gonna do me. And I'm always choosing me,
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: and I'm never thinking about the relationships that I've built out.
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: I wonder if being embarrassing on Summer House and the
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: whole Sierra thing made Austin grow up, or if it
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: was Madison, or if it was him being filmed at
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: some rando's house while Mandison's screaming at him for cheating
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: on her and he's running around in his underpants going babe, babe.
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: I don't think any of those things force me to
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: grow up. I don't think he's grown up. I think
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: that he, like most of the guys of BravoTV, their
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: dynamics with women are oftentimes mostly about men, meaning that
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: they are trying to hook up with women that they
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: they want the other guys to think the girl that
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: they banged was hot. It's their status and their ability
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: to like pull a hot lady. And I think Austin
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: on screen for years has had these fucked up dynamics
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: with women because he doesn't actually particularly like them. He
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: just thinks that they're hot and will reflect well on him.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: Like he and Madison. When you watch scenes with them
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: now that they're not in any way romantically involved, there's
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: like zero chemistry, right. I don't see how there, ever,
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: necessarily was anything. I think she just wanted to be
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: on the show and he thought she was a pretty
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: lady that would up his stock versus his feelings about
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: Craig are genuine feelings. Obviously, he very clearly was really
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: hurt by Craig pulling away. And what we saw this
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: season is how he handles actually losing someone that he
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: gives a shit about, and we haven't seen it before
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: because he didn't care about Sierra, and he didn't care
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: about Lindsay, and he didn't care about Madison.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: So like what we're saying is like we talk out
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: all the time about how like women need to decenter men,
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: but also it almost like it feels like men also
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: only center men because it's very Grecian. The Greeks used
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: to believe that men could only love men romantically and
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: emotionally and in a way that battered and they just
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: had wives for babies. I mean, the.
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: Greeks were a little bit onto something, at least with
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: the cast of Southern Charm.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: Well, and we see it happen all the time on
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: like Love is Blind and the way that the men
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: will gather together and talk shit on their girlfriends and
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: whether or not they got the hot person from the
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: pods or whatever. There is, like I mean, I said
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: that Craig stock plummeted when a page dumped him. There
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: is a lot of like men just fronting for other men, Like, Okay,
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: take a boyfriend who's really nice to you until his
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: bros Are around, and then all of a sudden, it's like,
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: you bitch, you didn't even bring me blah blah blah
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: blah blah. And then I'm fighting you in the yard
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: because I'm like, you're gonna call her a bitch today
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: because your baby brows are here, And that's like cute,
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: And I think like Southern Term has that in every episode,
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: and then they made them the stars of the franchise.
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: We know almost next to nothing about the women of
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: Southern Term.
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, theating someone this season, I don't remember. I don't
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: remember if we actually got a scene with her. I
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: couldn't tell you what her job is, anything about her
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: I could she could be standing next to me on
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: the street tomorrow and I would have no idea. And
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: that's fine. Not everyone's romantic partner needs to be a
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: main plot line. And also, to be clear, I'm not
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: trying to shit on the concept of men having strong
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: friendships with other men. I think they should. I think
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: that being honest and open and vulnerable and emotional in
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: your friendships is important, and caring about what your friends
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: think is important, and I want men to have all
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: of that as well with each other. I just think
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: that when the women in your life become the collateral
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: for those relationships, when when the women you're with are
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: really only serving as a way to prove a point
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: to the men in your life, that's a problem.
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And like the women in your life can be
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: anything like. I think that's why Craig struggled so much
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: in the early seasons, because he was supposed to be
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: a lawyer, and he just kept lying to people about
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: the bar and so like it was job status, it
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: was money plays a lot of who actually gets the
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: most respect in Southern charm, it's old timey names and
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: whether or not your grandfather's name is on a sign
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: in Charleston like, and I think if we take it
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: all the way back to Catherine, by the time Catherine
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: was on Thomas's radar, I think she had almost dated Shep,
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: had slept with Whitney, maybe had tried to date Craig.
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: So like her, there was nothing that Thomas Ravenol was
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: going to get out of Catherine, like statue wise, or
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: like class wise, or money wise or anything. So he
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: literally ran that girl into the ground. Did they ever
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: actually get married.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: I don't think so.
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: I don't think they ever got married. Literally, And now
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: his Wikipedia page says that he's really trying hard to
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: coparent with her, and I was like, you nightmare man,
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: you shouldn't even be allowed near her.
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: I'm sure she is hard to coherent with, but I
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: also think that she deserves like a lifetime settlement from
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: Bravo for the psychological damage that was rained down upon
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: her still squishy young brain.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: Well, because I think to be a nineteen year old
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: who has been told their entire life, a man will
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: love you once you're their wife and the mother of
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: their children, and for that to go so horribly wrong
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: with her, for her, I mean, it's kind of like
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: a noura, where like Anora for three days gets to
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: be a billionaire and a Russian billionaire's wife or whatever,
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: and then he immediately is punted to the curb as
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: soon as she has no value. Catherine was on the
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: way to having a life in a society that she
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: did not fit into. They othered her every chance that
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: they got, and Whitney was the leader of that. And
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: then at the end of it, Thomas was like, I
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: don't owe you alimony or child support or anything.
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: Well, and everyone was. Everyone seemed so furious with her
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: for not being more delicate and more ladylike and more
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: refined and a better mother and a better all of this.
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: It's the kind of classic Madonna horror setup. They were
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: excited about her when she fit in the horror archetype.
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: When she didn't seamlessly transition to Madonna, it did not
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: go over. Well.
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: Now, is there anything else about southern term that you
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: can think of that you have to talk about? Well,
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: you're on a hot bike.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, there's so much. I knew this would happen.
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: I knew we would get to an hour and I
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: would be like, I'm just warming up. I still have
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: so many thoughts to see about this. No, I think
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: the big thing is for me, I just am horrified
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: by how much people, as we've discussed, are siding with
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: Craig and Shep versus the ladies in those dynamics. I
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: generally default to taking the women's side in most arguments,
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: but especially here, I don't see how there's a mystery
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: to this. It seem women were clear and communicative and
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: solid and where they were at. And it's not a
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: crime to not like someone. It's not a crime to
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: like someone and then stop liking them.
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: It's also not a crime to love someone for a
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: while and then also go this is never going to
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: line up logically, like what are we doing.
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: Especially when he made it really clear that as much
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: as he pretended like he was being patient and you know,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: was willing to wait however long it took, or meet
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: in the middle or whatever, he was never actually compromising.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: He always wanted her to come there and was building
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: the house and getting the bees. And I think the
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: most obvious thing to me watching this season is that
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: he is someone who wanted this thing, this this mother
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: of his children, and it's not that he wanted Page
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: and then that was what he wanted to have with her.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: It's that he wanted that, so he wanted Page to
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: be that for him. The part that was important wasn't
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: the page, it was closing the loop and getting the
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: picture perfect life that he thinks will fix everything for him.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: And he always had a time stamp on that because
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: he would continuously say, I want to have kids within
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: the next five years. I don't have time to meet
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: someone new that I'll like as much as you, which,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: like the first time that I heard him tell Paige like,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: I'm just always worried because I'm worried that I'll never
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: find someone that I like as much as you. I
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: was like, Oh that's sweet. Look at you, craigy boy cute.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: I was like, but now I'm like, oh my god, girl,
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: you in danger.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, especially because if you really like someone that much
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: and are excited about them as a person as opposed
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: to the role that you think you can cram them into,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: you should genuinely be excited when they are thriving. I
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: have seen so many examples of relationships both on reality
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: TV and in real life and all around where it'll
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: be a partnership. The idea is you're building a life
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: together with this person, and yet one person views the
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: other one's success as an affront to them, taking away
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: attention from them, as in the case of Craig, or
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: actually also in the case of Creig, he's both of
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: these things, seeing their success as highlighting the other partner's failure,
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: being like, you got this promotion at work, and now
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: that makes me feel bad about where I am at
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: my job. And that's a natural human thing to feel
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: jealous sometimes, or compare yourself to other people, or to
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: feel a little salty about someone else getting a cool opportunity.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: That's not how you should feel about someone you're building
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: a life with. You should be on the same team.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: Well, And I think what also goes unset a lot
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: is it like like you have to worry about what
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: you wish for, right, because I can guarantee that if
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: this had ended with Page moving to South Carolina and
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: doing exactly what Craig's never going to be happy. And
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: I know so many women who are in a relationship
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: like this where it's like you're running in the hamster
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: wheel to be like, I'm the only thing that can
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: make him happy, So I'm going to make everything happy
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: today and then at the end of the day, Batman
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: is going to have his entire day ruined because Pizza
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: Hut didn't put enough pepperoni on his pizza. And now
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: it's your fault because you should have checked the pizza,
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: and so Page would have moved to South Carolina. And
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, all of the things that
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: Craig found so sexy and cool and in and about
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: Page aren't happening anymore because you made her uproot her
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: life and change her life. I mean, it blows my
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: mind how many men just don't understand that the act
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: of giving birth and then raising a human changes your
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: schedule and the things that you want to make time for.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a really annoying thing to say that.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: There is a quote that I don't remember who said
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: it or what the quote is on the old the internets.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: That's about the idea that like some men date in
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: a way where it's like they're like rare bird collectors.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: They want this exotic, beautiful, wild thing, but the reason
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: they want it is because they want to cage it.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: They want to they want to take away the thing
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: about it that is so exciting, and then they get
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: frustrated that it's not that thing. I think Page is
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: this beautiful, exotic wild bird, and I agree with you
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: that if he had actually been successful in caging her,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: she would have immediately stopped being the thing that he
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: was so fixated on. I also think that whether it
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: was with Paige or whether it now happens with whatever
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: random Instagram model he's dating or whatever, I think he
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: is cruising towards a real midlife crisis meltdown because he
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: does have such a clear picture in his head of
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: this thing that he wants his life to look like.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: And I think once he gets there and isn't immediately
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: suddenly a whole different person who's happy, I think he's
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: going to freak out.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I've watched that happen.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: That's not a gendered thing. Everybody sometimes gets the thing
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: they've been looking for and then goes, oh, this is it.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: It's tough when you're feeling that way and also are
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: on international television.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: I'd just like to give Serena an award again, Like God,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: it took ten whole seasons, but we finally got someone
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: to make Shuf feel unlikable.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: I also, I don't know who I need to give
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: this award to but whoever has made the push in
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: the last two to three years to find make gay
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: men actual characters on Bravo shows, thank you, thank you,
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: because we got the occasional little flurry of a homosexual
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: side character, but we were not getting anything like the
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: gaze of Southern Hospitality, who have like whole romantic storylines
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: and are sometimes villainous as fuck. And are these complicated, nuanced,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: full characters. I feel like we're not quite there. On
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: Southern Charm. We have some gay characters who are like
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: little cuties, but they're not really in the mix. I
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: would like them to be more in the mix. I
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: think that that adds another interesting layer if we're exploring
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: how these guys interact with each other to get them
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: a little more in the mix. But again, Southern Hospitality
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: fucking killing.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: The game, killing it hey, so ho.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: Bring it back. I need forty five new seasons starting
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: right now.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: It is the reunion on the watch What Happens Live
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: stage and I was like, Andy, that's disrespectful. Build them
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: a set.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: Can do an episode about Southern Hospitality that is just
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: me for one hour talking about houses with Emmy.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: Of course, no one has to listen to it.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: We don't even have to record it. Can I just
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: talk to you for an hour about how I feel
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: about you?
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: Already have and I answered the phone all the time.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: God damn that season was fun.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: If you had to sum up ten seasons of Southern
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: Charm and put it as a warning beacon of a
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: lesson to people everywhere, what would that lesson.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: Be warning the majority of people appear to be incapable
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: of change?
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah? I think Also mine is like you have to
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: pay attention to how often men are used to getting
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: their way and how often they're used to core or
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: seeing you. I know I don't say that word right,
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: but huh co orcing you into getting their way. So
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: I think think with like the Page and the Crag relationship,
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: I just wish that the fan base would lock in
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: on the fact that we love to tell children that
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: no means no, and like you have choices and you
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: get to say no. But every time a woman says no,
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: every time Paige said not yet, no, I don't want
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: kids or whatever, Craig's brain immediately went, I'll ask her
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: five more times and we'll see, Like I'll wait five
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: more months and then we'll see and he was so
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: convinced that he was going to get his way and
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: that he could convince her that he was blindsided by
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: this breakup and even lied to Andy and said she
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: never broke up with me. I don't know why she
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: said it on the podcast.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: You know, there's a there's a phrase that I feel
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: like gets credited to probably like Midwestern moms. It's one
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: of those things that you hear people say that's like,
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: you shouldn't date anyone that you couldn't handle breaking up
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: with process of going through a breakup or a divorce,
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: but that would be so bad that it doesn't make
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: the relationship worth it. And I feel like that's advice
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: that should have been given to Page early on in
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: this dynamic, because I believe that she really cared about
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: Craig and that they had a real love and a
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: real relationship and there was some there there. But it's
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: not surprising how he's handling this. He is someone that
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: makes shit up and lies and throws tantrums, and it's
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: not shocking that the way he's handling this breakup is
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: making shit up and lying and having tantrums, and this
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: cannot be fun for her. I feel for her.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: I tell friends all the time when they want to
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: take a chance and tell me about a new man
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: that they're dating, because they know that my opinion will
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: already be bad. I'll be like a new man ew
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: But they take the chance every once in a while
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: and they'll be like, I really like him, or I
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: want to get serious about him, maybe he'll be my boyfriend.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: And I always go, you have to say no to
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: him five times in five very different ways. And I
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: need you to write down how they react. And I'm
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: talking body language, tone, eye contact, what they say to you,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: how they say it to you, how you felt when
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: they said it. We need to start tracking that for
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: ourselves because that's how we start not being in these
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: situations with men who are just going to continue to
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: try and whittle us down until they get their way.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and especially if you are in a page style
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: situation where you are dating someone who is not treating
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: you the way that you want to be treated or
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: not hearing you the way they need to hear you.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: But they also exist in a community that is a
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: real echo chamber that is going to just keep telling
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: them that they are right. That's something that you need
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: to clock early. On as well, because it's a whole
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: lot harder to stand up to gas lighting and to
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: handle the situation when you know someone does have this
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: like nightmare Greek chorus that is telling them that they
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: are right in their behavior, and that's exactly what's happening there.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: All that entire cast, including Madison, who usually has the
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: right takes. Everybody is being like, oh, poor Craigie has
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: really been taken advantage of, and so it makes it
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: even easier for him to just continue on this spiral
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: and act like she's this villain when she ain't.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because just like, take a historical stop of all
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: the mean things that men have ever done to you,
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: to a woman that you know, to women in general,
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: and then sit in the fact that men think that
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: that's saying no to them is a meanness and a
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: character flaw in you. Because that's what it boils down
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: to when it comes to the Krag and Page relationship
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: and why it all broke down. The men of Southern
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: Charm and a lot of men in our communities, in
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: our families walking around, you see them, you clock them.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: They think that when you say no, it's because you're
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: hurting them on purpose. And you're being mean and it
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: has absolutely nothing to do with your feelings or your
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: body or anything.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: So what I'm hearing is we need to all just
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: do better job. Do a better job demonstrating for men
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: what being mean actually looks like.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: Yes, is that our manifestation.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: From everyone listening. Go out this week and be mean to.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: Him man, as you know. Twenty twenty five February twenty
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: twenty five, Kendrick Lamar looked me dead in the eye
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: on a television camera at I believe it was a
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: sports game, and he said, Natalie, it's fine. We can
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: be haters again. And my inner twelve year old mean
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: girl who loved ruining people's days went finally and she's back. Baby.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: The world has gone off the tracks. We need to
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: start being mean to people again. We need to start
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: punching Nazis and making uptight Southern asshole men feel bad
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: about themselves. This is an important community service that we
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: need to provide.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: There are so many television shows that end with a
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: woman like paral like Parishane, or being in a really
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: fucked up situation, and I go, if you had only
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: not cared about that man's feelings so much.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: The whole my favorite murder fuck politeness of it all.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: There is a thing where we are socialized to believe
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: that hurting a man's feelings, saying no to a man,
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: embarrassing a man, that these things are somehow equally bad
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: as the repercussions that we face for trying to be
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: polite to make them feel good, That the risk to
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: our actual physical safety is less important than making sure
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: a stranger doesn't think you're a bitch because you don't
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: smile back.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: So start with one. This is my man of festation,
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: that everyone starts with one. Once a day. You have
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: to tell a man, though, and you have to mean it,
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: and you have to follow up on it, and you
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: don't do anything. If it's no, it's no. And you
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: clock the body language, the eye contact, the tone, what
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: he says, what he doesn't say, but you read off
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: of his energy. Clock it because I believe that the
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: best way that you can learn about whether or not
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: a man is safe around is the way that he
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: takes a no. And it's the first no, and it's
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: every no after that, and you re evaluate every time.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: Well, it doesn't have to be a nightmare no. You
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: don't have to be a massive bitch about it. You
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: can be if you would.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: Like, please do and then tell me about it.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: Plenty of times people do not handle it well just
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: being told no in a calm, cool, reasonable manner. Give
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: that one a try. Take that one for a spin,
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: see how it goes. Like do what?
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: No?
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: Just no? I did that to a man recently, man
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: that I barely knew, was leaving the room and said
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: can I have a hug? And I was like no,
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: And that was the end of that exchange. And that's okay.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: She lived.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we all survived.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: Do you have a manifestation for anyone besides get mean
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: and then tell me about it. I just hope that
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: people start emailing me all the times that they've been me.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: That'd be great that people are able to look at
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: some of these relationship dynamics that we see play out
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: on reality shows and are able to take from it
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: that outside perspective on things that have happened in their life. Definitely,
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: reality TV is like this exaggerated comedia performance of real
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: life things that happen. You watch extreme versions of breakups
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: and betrayals and friendships and all of this. And I
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: know that I have found dorkily enough times that I
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: am watching a reality TV show breakup or fight or whatever,
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: and have been like, oh, watching this when it's two
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 2: other people, it's very clear who's in the right and
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: who's in the wrong, and who's being manipulative and what's
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: going on here. But when I was one of those people,
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: it was a lot harder.
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: It was hard.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So if you find yourself watching one of these
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: shows and either like feeling a little more intensely about
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: it than when you would expect, or finding that some
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: of it's familiar to you, I manifest that you take
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: some time and sit with that and review. Maybe what
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: you realize is you're the toxic nightmare. Maybe you've been
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: sending some creepy shep style text messages and could maybe
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: put the brakes on that. Or maybe you're watching it
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: and suddenly go, oh, I gotta break up with this speech.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: And if you are the toxic nightmare, still email me,
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: because I think that's great. That's actually fighting against patriarchy
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: when we ourselves get to be toxic.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: I've said it, be a fuck boy.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: Be a fuck boy, be toxic, be mean, tell them
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: that you don't want to have his kids and you're
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: not getting a dog. It just really a bit up.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: It's wild that not wanting to have someone's kids could
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: be being mean. You can just not want to have
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: someone's kids does not mean having kids is so hard
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: for the rest.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: You can just not do it if you want. Crag
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: thought it was mean. Crag thought it was mean every
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: time she didn't jump up and down and say, of
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: course I'll have five kids. Nightmare, nightmare. Annie. Do you
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: have anything to plug?
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: Honestly right now, I don't really. I'm just hanging out
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: doing stuff. I make art. It's on the internet if
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: you want to look at it. I'm Annie makes art
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: on TikTok. I'm ak si e g on Instagram. And
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: I really have not been posting much lately, and I
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: feel like every time I come on here, I'm like,
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: but soon.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: But I will if you follow me.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: I'd be so present on social media. I'll be honest,
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: We'll see. But I love talking about reality TV. So
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: if you want to slide into my DMS and be like, hey,
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: let's talk about how you know how much Whitney sucks,
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: I'm there and ready. Just don't side into my dms
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: and be like, actually, you're wrong, and these men are lovely,
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: sweet angels. I don't want to hear that.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: I will block you or we fight them. I like
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: arguing about it.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: We'll see, depending on my mood, maybe I'll just forward
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: them to you and be like, fight this person for me.
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: Fight this person well. Tolerators, you can find us at
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: men I've Tolerated pod on Instagram, to all the men
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: I've tolerated before on YouTube and Patreon, and my personal
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: stuff is at Natley k one two four on both
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: TikTok and Instagram. And remember, tolerators, you don't have to
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: smile through anything you're tolerating, including men who drawl in
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: a really cute Matthew McConaughey way, but at the end
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: just want to keep you barefoot, impregnant. Smiles are for joy.