Latest / The FEEL Podcast: Women’s Empowerment, Emotional Wellness and Self-Leadership with Melissa Crook / Embracing Identity, Fluidity & Self-Care: A Pride Conversation with Jenna Madden

Transcript

Embracing Identity, Fluidity & Self-Care: A Pride Conversation with Jenna Madden · The FEEL Podcast: Women’s Empowerment, Emotional Wellness and Self-Leadership with Melissa Crook

0:10
Hello, feel podcast audience, welcome back this week.
0:14
This is going to be our final episode of this season four as
0:19
we wrap up the spring and also in June, as we wrap up pride
0:23
month, and I am so excited to share with you today.
0:27
Jenna Madden, Jenna comes to us as a friend of our blog writer
0:32
Jessica Garrison Jenna and Jessica went to high school
0:36
together and as we were brainstorming and thinking of
0:39
people, Who would not only be great for pride month, but would
0:43
just be a great to share with you as we wrap up this season
0:46
for Jessica brought Jenna to me and you are not going to be
0:50
disappointed. They are so wise and insightful.
0:55
Another one of those really intuitive emotionally
0:59
intelligent tuned in 20-somethings that I'm just
1:02
continue to be impressed in astounded by.
1:06
So I met Jennifer in video person for the first time.
1:10
Day. We've been exchanging emails for
1:12
a couple of months, so we took some time to visit a little bit
1:16
before. So I could learn a little more
1:18
about them and introduce them properly to you today.
1:22
Jenna is someone who identifies as they them for pronouns 9
1:28
non-binary Jenna, defines them self as compassionate and
1:33
empathetic and passionate and really feels in their body.
1:39
And mind, Those things. And that really informs the work
1:43
they do they are an advocate for not only people in the lgbtqia
1:50
community. But other people that they have
1:54
a passion for that are marginalized that they want to
1:57
fight for. They see your struggle is their
2:00
struggle, and they want to walk side-by-side with you.
2:03
And that Jenna is a learner, Jenna grew up in a family of
2:06
Educators and teachers and understands that life is a
2:10
process. S.
2:11
And there's fluidity to it, they have their values, their core
2:15
values that they live by, that are really come through in their
2:17
character traits. But also know that you're always
2:20
learning and growing and changing and allow room for that
2:23
with themselves and with other people, I'm so excited to share
2:28
Jenna with you today. I think they have so much to
2:31
offer us. And again, you're just going to
2:34
be so impressed with Jenna's just ability to know who they
2:39
are. And and Their Journey with that
2:41
and how they care for themselves and how that gives them so much
2:45
strength to care. So, well, for others, and we'll
2:48
talk about some of that work as well.
2:50
So Jenna, thanks so much for joining us today.
2:54
Hi, thank you so much for having me.
2:55
It's an absolute pleasure to finally get to talk to.
3:00
So excited about this to find this episode which is going to
3:04
drop on June 27th. You can go to embracing
3:06
layers.com that will give you the link to the episode The Blog
3:11
that Jessica writes about the episode.
3:13
So make sure you get to that embracing layers.com.
3:15
It'll also tell you all the places you can follow us on
3:18
social wear everywhere and to learn more about us.
3:20
But we're going to get right into it today with Jenna.
3:23
Let's start with this Jenna how to prioritize self-care in your
3:27
life and what does that look like for you?
3:30
I'm sure self-care is definitely important.
3:32
Something we should all be talking about and South
3:35
self-care for me. I kind of divide it in a couple
3:39
ways but like I think I always focus on things that keep me
3:44
alive and like my Basics and then also things that just make
3:47
me feel good things I just enjoy, but it's important to
3:51
like do both of those things. So one like self-care thing
3:56
that's more of a basic is like deep breathing.
3:59
I really Focus on mindful breathing if I'm in, like a
4:02
stressful situation. Or just having a bad day, I
4:07
don't know. There's lots of different
4:08
breathing techniques. You can find ones that work for
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you ones like four seconds of breathing in.
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Then you hold your breath for 2 seconds and then you spend four
4:17
seconds like breathing out. That's one.
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That's like really simple but really like keeps me calm if I'm
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in a moment of distress. So yeah.
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Like as simple as it sounds like focusing on your breathing is a
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Technique for me as well as like drinking water throughout the
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day. Seems so basic but it just truly
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makes my body feel good and then my mind feel good as well and
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then eating food. Finding food that's like
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tasteful to me. Something that brings me joy and
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it's not an easy thing. You know, people struggle with
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eating food in our world and so it's like really basic but also
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like really, really important to be able Able to nourish yourself
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through food water and breathing.
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And then addition has those, like, basic things there are
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things that are more subjective to me, but things that like I
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have to Center in my life because they make me feel so
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good. So, when one big thing is music,
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like I'll listen to so much music just in a single day, like
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on my drive somewhere. Before I go to bed, maybe even
5:26
as I'm getting ready in the morning.
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And it's just like Silly thing, I do like listen to pop music,
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or listen to literally anything just because it makes me feel
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good and connect it to listening is playing.
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So, I'm not saying I'm like, you know, Taylor Swift out here, but
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I play the guitar and I just know, some basic chords.
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I've been playing like, most of my life and playing the guitar
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is just such a good emotional release for me.
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You know, if I'm going through something difficult, Cult or I'm
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having a bad day. I just grab my guitar and just
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strum, strum, strum play, play play, and like I said, I'm not,
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you know, a crazy, amazing guitar player, but it is such a
6:14
good self-care activity for me because I can release my
6:17
emotions and also like in a little way like it's partially
6:22
physical for me. Like I can strum really hard on
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my guitar and get out like maybe frustration.
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Hey Yeah, and so, like just playing just, I don't know,
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letting loose a little bit, can help me release my emotions, and
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in a way process, my emotions to.
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So, yeah, playing the guitar but also just centering play.
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Like the idea that like we should just engage in an in an
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activity for fun for enjoyment, not because, you know, not
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because I'm going to become, you know, be selling out stadiums
6:58
and selling out albums. Yes, I'm engaging with the
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guitar because it's just serving myself.
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Like, it's making me feel good and letting me process my life
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so doing things like that. Like, the guitar is an example
7:11
of how I sent her play. But also just like sports, I
7:15
love like playing soccer in my backyard with a friend or
7:20
playing basketball at my local YMCA.
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I really love swimming. So whenever I can I get in the
7:27
pool and just do some laps. And it's like linking that
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physical release of like move moving my body movement and also
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like a joy. Like I'm someone who finds joy
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out of running around trying to score or, you know, swimming
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really hard and seeing how fast I can go.
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So yeah, like things like that, that link the physical and
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emotional health and give me this release in a way, it's just
7:58
myself care. Even dance sometimes, I just
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dance like if I don't have the means of, you know, going out to
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play a sport or anything like you can dance anywhere in your
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world and I'm not a good dancer but it's just a physical
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emotional release for me. So yeah.
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Basically just overall I prioritize.
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You know, those things that keep me alive and keep me calm and
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moments of Crisis, which is the water, the food, the breathing,
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and then also just making sure I'm living a life where I can
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Center activities that are just playful.
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For my enjoyment like sports or dance, or music.
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So, yeah, those are, those are my, my self-care activities in
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my life. I love that.
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I love that. I love how you separate it out
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to the, the difference between the stuff that I need to live
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and survive versus the fun. Because I think we don't think
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about that enough. You were talking about breathing
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earlier. Box breathing.
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I do that same thing. I will I will feel it in my
8:59
body. Just stop and do the Box
9:01
breathing just to reset my nervous system and it might it
9:04
comes up in different things that might be just I've been on
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the computer for a while banging away working away and I just all
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of a sudden. My chest is tight and because
9:13
sometimes the work is a little more intense or I'm trying to
9:15
figure something out and so just taking that moment and I started
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a thing a couple of years ago and I wear I like every hour
9:23
with sudden alarm so that every hour I would stop and just do
9:26
that for a couple of minutes because I didn't Realize how
9:30
much my body was seizing up when I was working on a 9 to 5 job
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where I was like all of a sudden I'd be like, whoa!
9:38
Okay, so I'd love that you brought that up and and also the
9:41
food in the water. Like I don't think we give
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enough credit to the fact that of how we feed ourselves,
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affects how we feel and we get busy with our days and we don't
9:52
prioritize our meals. We just grab the quickest thing
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because we're in such a rush rush rush and then we feel like
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trying to feel like Why do I feel like crap at five o'clock
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or three o'clock? I'm falling asleep at my desk.
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Well how have I fed my body throughout the day?
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So I'm so glad you talked about that because we sometimes do
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those are the basics. They don't have no.
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Those are. They do count those are like you
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gotta start there. You're sure doing that.
10:18
Well and then I loved how you talk to em, you know the music
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and and the fun piece and that's something that's interesting
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because both my husband's therapist and my therapist I'm
10:29
like y'all need to Have some fun that because that doesn't have
10:32
any meaning, but having fun, it doesn't have to have any like,
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you're so caught up in this list and everything has to have a
10:39
meaning attached to it, and they're like, no, you need to do
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it because it's fun and for no other reason because of the
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release. And I think because of the world
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we live in and you know, with the kind of work that you're
10:51
involved with, you got to have that space, that's what fills
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your hope and your energy, so that you're able to do the
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things you want to do in the world.
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So I'm so Glad you. I love how you separate it that
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out but that how they all have such an important meaning.
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So thank you for sharing. I totally agree with what you
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said, 100%, And I'm not saying it's easy, you know, like it's
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as silly as it is. It is hard to like, focus on
11:15
having fun because we live in this world but something like
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maybe some advice I might have or a way that like something
11:22
that helps me when I'm feeling down because it's inevitable,
11:24
that will feel down is like having a physical list of these
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things written down. Like Hey reminder, Jenna.
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You love to swim or hey, reminder, you love to dance.
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And so like, you know, sometimes when I forget, or if I get down
11:39
in a hole like having that reminder like, hey, you like
11:43
you, like to dance is really, really nice to me.
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So, having like a self-care reminder list, also, just having
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a list of things that like, keep me grounded in my life, I found
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that is really, really helpful list of things that ground me
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and then even if you want to take, It one step further like a
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list of affirmations or like things that I love about myself
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because it's easy to get down on myself or things like that.
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But if I have these three lists, which I have them on like
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Post-it notes really accessible self-care things, that ground me
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and things. I love about myself.
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Like I don't know. Just a little advice.
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I have of like what keeps me kind of going is having those
12:24
reminders. That's great.
12:26
That's so great. Have it, you have it in that
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place where you can see it. Whether it's your mirror in your
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bathroom or your, you know, your mirror in your car or whatever,
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you're on your briefcase or whatever it is that place that
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you find it. I love thats really, really good
12:40
advice. All right, talk about
12:44
confidently setting boundaries. How did talk to me about your
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boundaries Journey? How that's that's worked for
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you, if that's the hard, if that's something you're working
12:53
on, talk to me about that. I mean, yeah, I didn't touch on
12:56
this, but I think like setting boundaries is Also part of
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self-care? Yeah, for sure.
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And I'm not the best at this. Like, you know, I it's kind of a
13:08
difficult thing to do and I, you know, set boundaries and then
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had those boundaries violated before in the past.
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So it's like it's really tough when you have experiences like
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that, which I'm sure many, many, many people have.
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So I think like it's really important because this is a
13:24
difficult. Cop topic to have friends or You
13:31
honestly to have a therapist to talk to about this because it's
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not an easy situation by having people.
13:37
You can talk to about setting boundaries has really helped me
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like process my own boundaries, but it is really, really
13:47
important because this is how we let people know.
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Like what's okay, like what what is making me feel good and then
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what is not gay and what's not? Not making me feel good.
13:59
So it's really important to do. And so for setting boundaries I
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need to like remind myself that like I know my body best, I'm
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the one experiencing things like I'm in control of what my body
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does. I'm in control of like choosing
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where I want to be, and where I want to go.
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And so I think, yeah, the first step almost is like, building
14:24
this self-confidence that I'm in charge of me, I know.
14:29
Self best. And like I said, I'm a really
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passionate person, and I feel my emotions in my body.
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And so like, when I feel something I need to trust that,
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like, this is a real thing. I feel I'm not making it up or
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I'm not just being sensitive, which I like things that the
14:50
world kind of tells us. Sometimes it's like, oh like you
14:54
should not have this boundary because, you know, you don't
14:57
deserve to have that boundary but It's not true at all.
15:01
You do deserve. You know, if you're feeling
15:03
something and you're like, everyone loves hugs but I don't
15:06
like hugs, you know. That's just an example like
15:09
yeah. That's okay.
15:11
No. But I haven't know that.
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I'm a daughter that the same way and it's like, it's okay for you
15:16
to say, like that's just not something that is welcoming to
15:18
me, please don't assume that it is welcoming to everybody.
15:22
Yeah, I think that's a great example.
15:24
So yeah, I guess like it really is building that self-confidence
15:29
that like you The one who's allowed to say what's, okay,
15:32
what's not? Okay, and then also, I think a
15:35
really big part of, it is like, teaching others to that just to
15:40
be aware of this, that everyone's in charge of what's
15:43
okay for them. And so as much as like, you're
15:46
allowed to dictate what you want to do with your body like
15:49
others, you know, have that same right?
15:52
And so it's kind of like, almost like teaching others about
15:54
consent is a really big part of setting boundaries because it's
15:59
like Like, you know, we need to educate everyone on like that
16:03
fact that we should respect people's boundaries and be
16:06
mindful. When we're putting things on
16:08
other people, that they might have a different Comfort level
16:11
for things that we do. And that's like amazing.
16:14
That's like the beautiful part of being human is that we have
16:18
these these layers, in these different sensitivities in these
16:21
different feelings, in our bodies.
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And we don't know what someone's going through, we really don't.
16:26
So yeah, that's a big part of setting.
16:29
I'm just too is being aware that other people have boundaries and
16:35
being okay. If you know we do overstep or
16:37
put something on someone being you know ready to have that
16:43
conversation with a friend or with someone that like oh I'm
16:48
sorry you know I gave you this hug and you didn't want it.
16:52
Yeah being okay to have those difficult conversations to yeah
16:57
because I think something that's so important.
16:59
You've so many Many good points there because it's it's one
17:01
thing to like, put out there. This is my boundary but then
17:05
you've got to like enforce it with the kid yet.
17:07
Sometimes I can be really uncomfortable.
17:09
And do you get caught up in the like am I being rude?
17:12
No, no, you communicated boundary at the same time.
17:15
It's important to communicate the boundaries because people
17:18
are not mind reader's. So we have to communicate those
17:21
boundaries in order. And then also once you've done
17:23
that being being comfortable with like, you know, as we
17:28
talked about before, This is, you know, I don't have that time
17:31
for that this week or Personal Touch is not something that is,
17:36
you know, I'm comfortable with, with just anybody and, you know,
17:40
those kinds of things. But also, when you do that, I
17:43
think it also sends a message to other people like oh she has
17:47
boundaries that she's asking to respect.
17:50
It's okay for me you know to have those boundaries to because
17:53
the consent things a big thing and it's not respected you know,
17:58
broadly as Especially just in a broad context and not being
18:04
offended. Like if someone has set a
18:07
boundary and you violated that whether you just forgot or
18:12
you're not used to having boundaries and you don't
18:14
understand them, whatever it is not being if that's not, it's
18:18
not a personal thing. That is something that's
18:20
important to them and just maybe try to put yourself in that
18:23
person's shoes. And be like, wait a minute, what
18:25
are those things that are uncomfortable for me?
18:27
And if you haven't communicated Those two other people, that's
18:31
not the person who has been a fault.
18:34
I think that's, I think, can be really hard sometimes to, to
18:36
communicate boundaries to people, who have no boundaries,
18:39
because they don't understand it and not feeling like the person
18:42
with boundaries feeling and comfortable with like I have
18:45
boundaries. I it's important for me, it's
18:47
your choice. Whether you decide to have them
18:49
or not, but that doesn't make my boundaries less important or so,
18:53
you know, and just being okay with like, you know, apologizing
18:57
if you do overstep or yeah, Being that, it's not the
19:01
friendships over because you know, my friends communicated a
19:04
boundary, no, like they're communicating that boundary
19:07
because it's important to them and they don't want to happen
19:10
again and yeah. Being.
19:12
Okay. Having that conversation is
19:14
really important but can let you like move forward and go deeper
19:18
into your relationship or something.
19:20
Yes. Absolutely.
19:21
Because I think a lot of times, we communicate boundaries,
19:23
because we care about the relationship and we don't want
19:26
to have those hidden feelings of mistrust or Irritation when
19:30
someone crosses a boundary, but we've never communicated it to
19:33
them. We want them relationship, to
19:34
be, honest and safe. So I think that's an important
19:38
thing to remember, too. Absolutely, so much for that.
19:41
All right, you've talked about this a little bit earlier, but
19:43
going to touch back on to it. Taking care of her emotional
19:46
health as much as our physical health.
19:48
You really hit on this. Well, when we talked about
19:50
self-care, where you talked about how, when you doing that
19:52
physical activity, it's it's taking care of two things.
19:56
It's dealing with a physical need.
19:57
You have to work something out, but it's also Also helping you
20:00
emotionally and mentally have you always been aware of that?
20:05
Or is that something you've learned over time?
20:09
Yeah. I don't think I was aware of it,
20:11
but I was practicing it. So I've been involved in sport.
20:15
Yeah. You know, I've played the guitar
20:18
since I was 10 and I didn't realize, you know, the
20:21
significance of it in the moment.
20:23
But you know, growing up, I was in really dark places at times
20:28
and for some you know, the guitar would help bring me out
20:32
of this and again I'm not a great guitar player but it
20:36
really, really has like Been amazing for my life that I can,
20:41
you know, do that because it's a physical like strumming and it's
20:46
at the emotional release and then same with sports.
20:49
I did every sport Under the Sun as I was a little kid and I'm
20:52
thankful that I had, you know, parents who allowed me to do
20:55
that in and resources where I could.
20:58
But same thing there, I just was going through tough times with
21:03
friends at school or trying to make sense of myself and my
21:06
identity, especially my queer. Aditi and it was making me so
21:11
sad and so I felt so like upset and yeah, going to swim practice
21:17
and just releasing, you know, my frustrations, my anger and then
21:23
also you know processing that while I'm swimming.
21:28
I've been doing that since, you know, since I can remember but I
21:32
don't think I actually understood that significance.
21:36
Honestly until College when I started taking some Ecology
21:39
classes. And I know that is how you help
21:44
then. Yeah and that's when you really
21:49
realize like wow, it is so true. I mean I truly believe that our
21:53
bodies and our minds are just connected.
21:56
There's not this separation. And so of course like mental
22:00
emotional and physical health have to be interconnected.
22:05
So yeah, I love finding those activities that can get my body
22:08
moving. Being and also just make me feel
22:11
good. Yeah, I know I understand.
22:15
I understand what you mean. I mean I will sometimes have
22:18
I'll get my best freshest idea sometimes what I'm on a really
22:21
big do overly vigorous workout whatever that might be because I
22:24
cleared everything out, like I've removed whatever tension
22:28
was in my body from the day. I've kind of cleared my head and
22:32
I find a this happened a couple days ago.
22:34
I was on a went on a really brisk walk.
22:36
I came back and did some yoga and stretch and I had to get on
22:38
my computer. To right after I was done to
22:40
write down all the things that I thought about because I had the
22:44
Mind space, I'd cleared it out, had the Mind space.
22:47
I'd worked it out, mentally, emotionally, physically.
22:50
And if you don't do those things, and it will show up in
22:53
other ways. So I think it's so important
22:55
that I look, I played all the sports as a kid to that were
22:59
available. My kids did too.
23:02
And you know, I think it's one of those things you do learn
23:04
kind of early on. I mean for me running became a
23:07
therapy session for me before I knew A new therapy was something
23:10
that was important. I would work a lot of things out
23:12
on my runs. I was a track with my, my
23:15
favorite sport, and I were to a lot of stuff out on my runs.
23:20
Nice going, y'all, it? And so, I think it's no and
23:23
render standing that connection. I think is so important and it's
23:26
helpful when you have those habits in place already and then
23:28
you're able to put together. Wait a minute, this is, I don't
23:31
just need to do this for my physical health.
23:34
I need to do it for my, for my mental and emotional space.
23:38
Yeah, I think it's I'm trying. Absolutely.
23:40
And I think, also, a big lesson, I learned to was the importance
23:43
of therapy, like, I've been going to therapy on, and off
23:47
throughout my entire life to. So it's, of course, these these
23:50
Sports, in these ways that I, myself can process my emotions.
23:54
But, at the same time, like, I can't emphasize enough, how,
23:58
like important therapy is. I'm a big supporter of like
24:02
everyone needs therapy because, yeah, it's a tough world that
24:06
we're living in and we all know help and why not?
24:09
Not have like a trained. Professional help you with that.
24:12
But I do not everyone has access to that.
24:14
So something that does help me in times where I don't have
24:17
access to a therapist is just journaling.
24:21
That's just an easy way to like process your emotions more going
24:26
on runs or swims and thinking processing and there's also a
24:31
cool self-therapy app that I use.
24:34
Hmm if I'm never really if I'm not in therapy at the time and
24:38
it's called You /? Why are you okay?
24:42
Yeah, and we'll have that will be in the sources people if you
24:44
guys want to look it up and we'll put that under short.
24:47
Okay, that's something guys, right me girl, my life.
24:51
I love that. It's yeah, because I mean, I
24:53
think sometimes we have to remember too that some of, you
24:57
know, I think it's important to member fighting those things
24:59
self-care rides at work, but also realizing the privilege.
25:01
It's locked into that. And so if I don't have the
25:04
financial means or the time, I'm working two or three jobs, what
25:08
are those things like I can do and it doesn't have to be.
25:10
You did a really good job early when you talked about the
25:12
breathing and these don't have to be things that take a lot of
25:15
time. Just make sure you find that
25:17
thing. It might be going on a walk
25:19
around the block at your house, you know, in the morning, before
25:22
you go to work, or when you get home or after dinner, it might
25:24
be just listening to that favorite music and jam it out on
25:27
the way home from work, but finding that space.
25:32
But also realizing as we're recommending these things, that
25:36
that there is some privilege locked into that.
25:38
And so, Yeah, look at the resources will have sources in
25:41
there that are for everybody, the in will list these things so
25:44
that you all can have access to that.
25:47
All right. How can we support ourselves and
25:50
others in living and apologetically, you talked
25:53
about, you hit on something earlier.
25:54
When we were talking about your character traits, you're
25:57
compassionate and empathetic and you see their struggle is my
26:01
struggle and you advocate for that, and you advocate in the
26:06
queer Community. But you Advocate period for just
26:08
things that you Care about. So, talk to me about about how
26:12
you support yourself in that, but also others in that because
26:15
I think you do it, like your life is an example of that.
26:19
But talk to me about your journey with that.
26:21
Yeah, no. That's definitely.
26:23
Like, I truly believe a big part of self-care is like Community
26:28
Care, in a sense. Yeah, I think community care
26:33
advocating for your rights but the rights for others as well.
26:38
I don't know. We live in a world where lots of
26:42
people are oppressed trans and non-binary and queer people,
26:47
especially currently are being attacked and attacked legally in
26:55
the United States and so like, I just, I just can't help.
27:02
Can't stop myself from from not like I have to be involved in
27:08
advocating for queer trans non-binary people my right to
27:14
exist and experience you know a full life of all these things
27:18
we've been talking about a full life of joy and things that make
27:22
me feel good and you know others deserve to experience that too
27:28
and so advocating for Trans non-binary.
27:32
Queer and other marginalized people of every kind to just
27:37
have that right to experience life as I get as I want to
27:41
experience it. I think is so so important.
27:45
And is truly like as a queer person.
27:49
It is self-care advocating for yourself, advocating for your
27:53
community. Yeah, because there's people out
27:56
there who are trying to, you know, restrict or oppress and
28:00
so, yeah, it is. Health Care to fight for your
28:05
rights, just straight up and I think when you do that, it
28:09
invites other people to do that. And I think me and I think that
28:12
that's where the community really comes in.
28:15
I mean of coming together and like come alongside me right,
28:19
let's do this together. Let's fight together.
28:21
Let's let's believe in each other together.
28:23
Just create a safe world that we all want to live in together.
28:26
I think another thing that goes into that and this is something
28:30
my mother and I used to say to my kids When they were little is
28:34
we, we fear the things, we don't understand, we fear the things
28:38
we don't know. And so also an invitation to
28:42
other people learn. You know, this is, you know,
28:46
learn, if you don't understand what it's, you know, there are
28:51
certain things that you can, I can never understand.
28:53
I am a white cisgender heterosexual woman and I cannot
28:59
understand what it's like to walk.
29:02
In your shoes but I can learn. I can listen.
29:05
I can listen and participate and hear the stories and believe.
29:09
That's your experience and know that there are multiple
29:13
experiences in the world and value as a human.
29:16
I value my rights to choose to live the way I choose to live.
29:21
Why would I not want you to have the same thing?
29:25
But I think that you know, it's really just challenging people
29:28
to learn about what you don't understand. and instead of
29:33
making assumptions and judgments get in there and learn get to
29:38
know some people that have a different experience and you
29:41
whatever that experience is, whether whether it's what we're
29:45
talking about right now and identities, whether it's a faith
29:49
experience, whether it's someone from a different ethnicity or
29:53
cultural background learn about it so that you can help, you
29:58
know, we can all support each other and living
30:00
unapologetically so that we The world where we all feel safe
30:05
doing that and respect everyone else's right to do that.
30:08
And, you know, for people are like whatever it is.
30:11
You don't agree or disagree with.
30:13
It's not about agreeing or disagreeing.
30:15
It's about respect. Not everybody's going to like
30:18
everybody. Not everybody is going to agree
30:20
with everybody's choices but everybody has that right to live
30:24
safely as they desire to be living and I totally feel you
30:31
and You know, those the sense of like myself care, those things
30:36
that bring me joy, dancing music, playing sports, I truly
30:43
believe like everyone deserves the right to find things that
30:46
bring them joy. And so like some of my work
30:49
experience has been a little relevant to our conversation.
30:51
Now, like I worked last summer at a summer camp for kids and
30:57
just allowing the kids to run around play soccer Runner.
31:02
Climb the climbing wall swim. Like it was just beautiful to
31:05
see kids allowed to experience joy and just pleasure and fun
31:14
and like that was really important for me.
31:17
And this upcoming summer I'm going to be working at a
31:19
different camp and I'm really excited for it.
31:23
You know, to continue to allow kids to do that.
31:25
But this Camp is more more. It's specifically for That
31:32
non-binary and queer kids. And I think like that just adds
31:36
an extra layer to it that, you know, we live in a world where
31:41
certain powers don't want certain types of people to
31:44
experience joy. And so it's just really, really
31:48
radical to. You know, I'm really excited for
31:51
this summer because I'm gonna Embrace and encourage, you know,
31:56
trans non-binary kids to to be a kid and experience those Fun
32:02
things that are just for our own enjoyment and something I think
32:07
like all people deserve to experience.
32:09
So, looking forward to that is, yeah, and I think you're going
32:13
to be amazing at, I think that's a such important work right now,
32:15
but if you think you so thank you for doing that.
32:19
And those kids are going to be lucky to know you.
32:21
I think that we you and I talked about this before we started
32:25
recording. And the fact that we lose sight,
32:28
we get so caught up especially is Is people as kind of the
32:33
power Dynamic of white heterosexual.
32:36
We get so caught up and how somebody identifies that we lose
32:39
sight of them as a person. They're people you love to music
32:43
and guitar and dancing. So do I I love using my luggage
32:46
that's parking. I'm at 53 or, you know, you and
32:49
I if you've put us on paper, don't look like, we should have
32:52
a lot in common but we both enjoy.
32:54
We love music. We both played Sports as a kid
32:56
growing up. We both understand what those
32:59
are important. We're people and so don't get so
33:03
locked up in these. Not the not get these identity,
33:06
these are important but we don't let that lose sight of the fact
33:09
they're people that is that as a part of them respect that and
33:13
let them be that but also don't miss all of they are as a human.
33:17
You know, an absolutely I've got that common Humanity within that
33:22
of like we can respect each other's differences and that
33:25
does it, you know, I don't we just sit spend so much time
33:28
other airing instead of Appreciating respecting
33:32
understanding, and just embracing and giving and
33:35
allowing people the same freedoms that we want for
33:37
ourselves. Yes, because we truly are just,
33:40
we have these layers, we are multi multi faceted people with
33:44
different identities. You know, I'm I'm white.
33:47
Non-binary grew up in rural Pennsylvania.
33:52
There's just so many layers to me and it's really beautiful
33:57
when we can embrace the multi-faceted part.
34:00
Of our identities and not reduce us to just one single label.
34:04
Exactly exactly. Exactly.
34:07
All right, the importance of setting and coming back to your
34:12
Y, in your values and everything you do.
34:14
And I think you've got you've got a pretty clear-cut
34:16
understanding of what those are talk to me about how you got
34:19
there and and how that frames where you put your time and
34:24
energy. Yeah.
34:26
For sure. Like strengthening strengthening
34:29
my senses. Of has been, you know, a long
34:33
journey. But yeah, really, really
34:35
rewarding because I do feel like, I know what I care about
34:39
and I know. Yeah, I know who I am a little
34:44
bit. So I think my passion,
34:48
compassion advocacy, these are my core values and a big key.
34:54
Part of my core value is also that I'm always always growing.
34:59
Always changing always He's open to to fluidity and the sense
35:04
that I know I know I'm not going to stay the same person.
35:09
Yeah, I will always, I will always have those core values of
35:14
passion, compassion advocacy, but also allowing myself to to
35:19
change a little bit as I grow. And then sometimes, you know, a
35:23
little bit more difficult. Sometimes I act in ways that
35:26
don't align exactly with my values and that's what, I really
35:31
know. I have to, like, re-evaluate
35:33
what I'm doing, or maybe apologize to someone and say,
35:36
you know what? Like, I just acted in a way that
35:40
was not compassionate. I didn't understand.
35:42
You know, even though I care about being compassionate, I
35:46
admit we're not perfect human beings.
35:49
And so, I do only outside of my values, but just the fact that I
35:53
like no, those are my values allows me to do that apology or
35:58
allows me to like almost like call myself.
36:00
Self out in asserts. So it's important to maybe like
36:06
Journal about your core values and what you care about,
36:10
strengthen your sense of self. So that you can really just live
36:14
the life that you want to live live and create a world that you
36:18
want to live in. Ya know, I love that.
36:22
I love that kiss the, I loved how you talked about your
36:24
values, and I think that's so important because those values
36:28
are the cord that you carry. But the things Fight for and
36:31
decide for and are passionate about, or change will change
36:33
throughout your life. Yes.
36:35
That's, you know, that's true. You got value set and but I
36:39
think it's so important when you do have those values, you'd bump
36:42
into something, you know, when you're out of alignment, you can
36:44
feel it in your body and your mind and your spirit.
36:48
So I think it's, you know, and that's that Roots.
36:50
I think what really keeps us in check to.
36:52
That's so important. So thank you for talking about
36:54
that. All right, living out of your
36:58
own expectations. Versus others.
37:00
Yes, I'm sure you can talk about loan for an entire episode
37:07
hocus. Yeah, 100% talk to me about that
37:12
because that's that's hard. It's hard in a world that
37:16
doesn't always feel safe and or does it ever feel safe depending
37:20
on where you're at and what and what and who you're interacting
37:24
with. So talk to me about that because
37:28
I think you know you talked about earlier in the episode
37:30
That kind of the importance of having those Sports and having
37:33
those things as you were a kid, trying to figure out who you
37:36
were and because our education spaces don't allow for full
37:42
conversations about that and even as well and tensioning as
37:47
our parents are you know we're still as parents.
37:51
I can speak to this as being a parent myself.
37:53
As parents were conditioned to believe that we will have these
37:57
children and some will be boys and Some will be girls and
38:01
they're all be heteronormative and that's how it will be and
38:05
there's no preparation to discussion for any fluidity
38:09
within that. That's just not what the culture
38:10
has done. So as a kid, you're figure
38:13
yourself out yourselves. So you're trying to figure out
38:15
where am I safe? And are my, are the people in my
38:20
life that I love the most. Are they safe?
38:23
Not that they'd wouldn't mean to be, but anyway, I could, like I
38:28
said, we talk, okay, both could talk about Is forever to talk to
38:32
me about living out of your own expectations versus others.
38:35
Yeah. Like this is not easy at all.
38:39
Like the simple answer is like it doesn't matter what anyone
38:42
says like, you know you. But that's it's too simple.
38:47
Because yeah, there are systems of power out there that give us
38:53
expectations about how we have to live our life and as well
38:58
intentioned as people are, I think Ink.
39:00
These larger powers do impact our lives and what we expect
39:06
from others. So, yeah.
39:09
It doesn't have a simple answer. And I think the biggest lesson
39:14
I've learned in a way to truly, start living a life where I, I
39:19
can give this a simple answer and I can be more confident in
39:23
myself and say, like, you know what, like you expect this from
39:28
me, but I know me best like My advice would be just what we
39:32
already talked about earlier. In this episode is that you
39:36
truly do know, your body best you are in control of how you,
39:42
how you present yourself into this world building
39:48
self-confidence, to allow yourself to trust yourself.
39:53
That was a lot but trusting yourself, trusting your gut.
40:00
I don't know. I try to remind myself.
40:02
It doesn't matter what other people say, or what other people
40:05
think, but it's difficult to do, but it's what you have to do,
40:12
trust your, trust your gut. Trust your instinct.
40:15
I remember, like, when I was first coming to understand my
40:19
queer identity, I just kept thinking I was making it up like
40:24
that. I was for some reason, making up
40:26
my feelings and it was a really interesting like, Way to a to
40:31
come to my queerness but I've learned that many other queer
40:34
people feel this way to they feel like they're not legit
40:37
enough or their feelings aren't valid but the truth is, you
40:44
know, your body, you know, yourself.
40:46
And if you're feeling a certain way, it really other people
40:51
genuinely don't know and maybe they'll never understand you.
40:55
But you know, you best, you might not understand yourself
40:59
fool. But you do know yourself better
41:01
than better than your parents better than a stranger on the
41:05
internet better than anyone else.
41:08
So that's my only advice is just keep trying to remind yourself
41:12
that, you know, you and just go with it.
41:17
Yeah. I think that self-trust is a big
41:18
thing, you know, is just a not listening to all the outside
41:22
voices and pushing away what, you know, inside is happening,
41:25
what you know, who you are, whatever that may be, you know,
41:28
whatever. Or whatever cycle that looks
41:31
like you might be breaking or whatever grain you might be
41:33
going against, you know, I'm just learning how to trust my
41:37
inner knowing there's so many things for years that I didn't
41:40
fight for because of the spaces. I lived in that I knew Within
41:44
Myself, hmmm that, you know, I would find ways to accommodate
41:49
or I would believe that. Like, no, that must be something
41:52
misguided. I can't be right, or I can't be
41:54
trusted because he's outer sources are telling me.
41:57
This other thing. I mean, When I was growing up, I
42:01
spent I grew up in a Mormon religion, and then I went into
42:05
evangelic, will spaces for a lot of years.
42:07
And I, there were things that I knew in my soul.
42:12
We're right. But I've but these other spaces
42:15
were telling me there was something wrong with that.
42:18
And so I found myself in this quandary all the time of like
42:23
you know, not fighting for things that in my gut.
42:25
I knew I liked know that, you know, I'm just now getting to a
42:29
point where I'm truly finally fighting for the things I'm
42:34
trusting myself. I'm listening to my heart and my
42:37
inner knowing for the first time and I'm 53 years old.
42:40
So can Congratulations to you for getting so much sweet and
42:45
you can, you know, and you've had a much more complicated
42:47
cated journey. I think the may just because my
42:50
identity is more widely accepted in the world than yours is, but
42:54
I think it's, but it's that trusting yourself and not
42:57
letting those outside spieces automatically giving them the
43:00
power if they are. Those outside spaces are telling
43:03
you something that in your gut, feels like something that isn't
43:08
adding up or you're having to justify What you're feeling
43:12
inside to make it match up with what that outside thing is
43:15
saying. That's what I would do a lot.
43:18
Yeah. And and it's just continued to
43:22
be a clash until I finally just didn't do that.
43:25
And, you know, last three to five years.
43:26
I find. I'm like, no.
43:27
I know what's right? I know.
43:29
It's okay. Yeah.
43:30
And I'm not going to let those outside voices.
43:33
If I'm feeling a conflict within me, that's what I need to know.
43:36
And I think so. So much respect to you for Your
43:41
courage and being able to do that in a world that would
43:44
rather you did not so many times and in so many.
43:47
Well thank you for saying that means a lot and maybe to
43:50
complicate my answer more you know it's trusting yourself and
43:53
knowing when to say you know I'm not going to follow these
43:56
expectations. You have of me.
43:59
And another big part that has helped me through.
44:01
That is the sense of community. My friends, my community, so
44:05
that you can tell each other like feeling down.
44:08
It's like, hey reminder we're all out.
44:11
Living are true lives and living you know, as authentically as we
44:16
as we can. And you know, that that really
44:18
helps is having the sense of community others standing, right
44:21
next next to you saying that and so it's awesome.
44:24
When others can do that for me and it goes to my core values of
44:28
how I want to do that for others, really?
44:31
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Oh, right we TV you've brought
44:35
this up a lot throughout the conversation so that I think
44:37
this is going to be real easy for you and we can just touch on
44:40
it and bring back. Back back this all this
44:42
together, accepting the layered aspects of ourselves.
44:45
You've talked about that a lot throughout the episode already.
44:48
I think you have a really good grasp on that and for someone
44:52
your age, to have a grasp on that good job.
44:55
Because I think we we struggle with that as humans and we
45:00
struggle with that because there's so many parts of
45:06
ourselves that we're told that aren't acceptable that people
45:09
don't want to hear about. We see the A shiny stuff.
45:12
Your generation has had to deal with all the social media, good,
45:15
bad, horrible, wonderful. All the above about that and the
45:19
effect that that has had on your mental health, there's all kinds
45:22
of studies out there about that. And what the world is telling
45:26
you, and what we feel comfortable and it's like the
45:29
fact of the matter is Until you can accept, all those layers
45:34
about yourself. It's going to be really hard for
45:36
you to prioritize yourself. Trust yourself.
45:38
Listen to yourself, make self-care priority, because
45:41
there's if you're not accepting all those layers yourself,
45:44
you're not going to see yourself as the fully intrinsic messy,
45:47
beautiful valuable complicated human.
45:50
That you are. How did you get into this space
45:54
that you are in such a healthy way at your age.
45:58
I already talked to me about that.
46:01
Oh, thank you so much again. So, I went to college in New
46:05
York, I went to Barnard college and I studied women gender and
46:09
sexuality studies in college. And in my classes we honestly
46:14
learned about like, intersectionality and how, you
46:18
know, you're not something fifty percent of the time and like
46:22
something else. 50% of the time you are 100% something. 100% of
46:28
the time at the same exact time. That you are something else 100%
46:34
100% of the time. So you know understanding it's
46:37
not this half-and-half or this like almost shattered idea of
46:41
identity. It's more like this
46:44
interconnected inner woven identity that happens all at the
46:50
same time and so I'll honestly say like my time in college
46:54
really studying power and identity.
47:00
Has it has really helped me. Understand myself and the world
47:02
I live in. Yeah I think that's a beautiful
47:08
thing and touches on kind of what we're going into next and
47:13
in summary and living out feel finding empowerment embracing
47:16
layers. We can feel multiple emotions at
47:22
the same time and I think that what we tend to do historically
47:27
and I think we're talking about this more.
47:28
So hopefully, As we move forward in has Humanity, we get better
47:32
at this, but we feel and whatever feeling emotion,
47:36
opinion, and we let that we decide, which one's going to be
47:40
the lead and we stuff everything else.
47:42
Instead of realizing, I can feel multiple things at multiple
47:46
times. I can.
47:47
I have multiple layers to myself all the time.
47:50
I love what you talked about. Like I'm 100% all of those
47:53
things all the time and that's just how it is.
47:55
That's the truth. There's no denying it.
47:58
That's, that's who I And that's what makes me all that I am and
48:04
I think that we can talk about that with our emotions to bit
48:07
how we your ability to express, you know, except that about
48:11
yourself and understand that about yourself, not only affects
48:13
your relationship with yourself. I would say it affects your
48:17
relationship with others. Talk to me about that.
48:19
How you feel about that? Absolutely, absolutely.
48:23
I just think that's the beautiful thing is that we are
48:27
such complex creatures who have the ability to feel such complex
48:31
emotions and layers, and I think Like that's what I want to do
48:42
with my life is just dedicate it to accepting all these parts of
48:46
ourselves and embracing it and others bringing it out of
48:50
others, letting people know that, that's okay.
48:52
That's kind of beautiful. That's what makes us amazing
48:56
creatures is that we do have this ability to be complex.
49:01
Like, let's go, let's break down.
49:03
These stereotypes are these boxes that just say you can only
49:09
be one thing or Can only feel one way.
49:13
There's just so much in my life that I want to really dismantle
49:18
or break down or just Roy. I don't know, I'm passionate and
49:21
I just I just feel like let's destroy these boxes.
49:23
That say you can only feel angry or sad at once.
49:26
Like no, that's not true at all. We are we are complex and
49:31
emotions are complex and let's Embrace that because I think It
49:37
just allows us to be more genuine, more open, more more
49:41
free with ourselves. And therefore with each other we
49:45
can find better connections with each other.
49:49
If we're just honest about the complexity that we all have.
49:53
Yeah. That's my thoughts on that.
49:55
No, I think that's so true. And something I started doing
49:58
that helps me with this. I write down each day in each
50:01
morning and my journal. I write down all that.
50:03
I'm feeling that morning and that helps me have of an
50:07
understanding of what I'm dealing with today so that I can
50:11
approach my day accordingly. I know what mine said I'm in.
50:14
I know all the things I'm feeling.
50:15
So what do I need to do to Foster that to work through some
50:19
things to allow other things to come through better to, you
50:23
know, whatever it is. I need to do whether it's some
50:25
it comes down to maybe what? I feel like I've got the
50:28
aptitude for that day. What I need to do for myself
50:33
care that day. Am I in Good space to be with
50:38
people that day or is this, they absolutely need to be with
50:41
people. I mean all those things and
50:43
that's something, I think that really helped.
50:46
And also awoke me to all that I was feeling at one time, like an
50:52
awareness because I wasn't one who was like, I always had I
50:57
kind of had a Primary Emotion and I let that dictate my day
51:00
and stepped everything else. So you, I don't think you need
51:02
this practice. I think you do this naturally
51:04
very well, but not all of us do. And so if your Looking for
51:07
something to help you. It's just something that I've
51:10
found that really helps me each day to have a better
51:13
understanding of where I'm at. I love that, I love that.
51:17
So, all right, rapid fire down to the in here.
51:20
Name, five activities. That nourish you.
51:24
Okay, the ones on my mind right now, guitar, playing playing
51:29
frisbee. Swimming practicing a language.
51:35
I just love morning. A language and a basic eating
51:39
tasty food like that. Just nourishes me?
51:43
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
51:45
Alright, five words on how you want to feel the next 6 months?
51:50
In the next six months, I want to feel safe.
51:53
I want to feel like an openness. I want to feel open.
51:59
I want to feel joyful proud. I want to feel proud of myself
52:05
and I want to feel like I'm growing.
52:09
Yeah, learning. Well, I again, I think, you
52:11
know, growing up in that learning environment, like you
52:13
did that kind of probably comes pretty naturally to you.
52:17
The Jenna, thank you so much. This was Such an enriching
52:21
powerful authentic conversation, I'm so appreciative of you being
52:25
willing to take the time and come on with me and have this
52:28
conversation. Thanks so much to Jessica, for
52:31
referring you feel podcast, audience, just feel podcast
52:36
audience. Like I said, earlier, go to
52:38
embracing layers.com to find the link to this episode to find the
52:42
blog. We talked about a lot of
52:43
different sources today and things that Jenna does.
52:45
But Jenna thanks again. So much a feel podcast audience
52:49
I know. You may want to go back and
52:51
listen to this again and take some notes, so much to learn.
52:55
And you know, this is our final episode of Season 4 will be back
52:59
in September with new episodes, but you can follow us all.
53:02
Summer long, we'll be featuring and highlighting.
53:04
Past episodes will be doing IG lives with past guests, and
53:10
reintroducing you to those episodes.
53:12
As we hit our two-year anniversary in July and so don't
53:16
miss out on any of those things, but but take the time, To learn.
53:20
If there's something that scares you or something, you don't
53:23
understand or someone you don't understand.
53:26
Learn more about it. And look at the way you feel
53:29
about it and I decide if that judgment or opinion you have on
53:34
it is based on stuff, you know, or based on fear and what you've
53:37
been told, that's my that's my outgoing advice.
53:40
It's something I've tried to do. I can tell you by doing that I
53:43
continue to learn and it's also humbling because I realize every
53:47
day so much more I need to learn and so much.
53:52
I need to unlearn as well. And so, thanks again.
53:57
Jenna podcast, audience have a great summer and we will see you
54:02
in the fall but don't miss out on all the great things we have
54:04
for you coming in July and, and thank you for, for being with
54:08
us. Have a great, great, July, and
54:10
August, and we'll see you in September.
54:13
Thank you. Thank you so much.
54:14
It was an absolute glass. Thank you, Jess for allowing me
54:18
to do this and happy. Pride month.
54:21
All right. When thank you, Jenna.